Power struggles
Ren Allen
I am posting this for a member that wishes to remain anonymous on the
following post:
I have a situation I'd like feedback on. I need/want convincing on
something. My oldest and I can get into power struggles. Big time.
Much less now that we are on this unschooling road, thankfully, but
it still does happen, none the less. Tonight, he left the basement
light and fan on. I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
Thank you
following post:
I have a situation I'd like feedback on. I need/want convincing on
something. My oldest and I can get into power struggles. Big time.
Much less now that we are on this unschooling road, thankfully, but
it still does happen, none the less. Tonight, he left the basement
light and fan on. I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
Thank you
Momma
Can I answer your question with a question? :-)
How would you have reacted if this was your husband who had left the fan and
light on? Would you even consider this a power struggle? If it had been my
dh I would have turned the light and fan off and maybe mentioned to my dh
that he forgot to turn the fan/light off *again*. I would probably not
mention it only because I would forget to. Would you feel it catering if you
turned off the fan/light for your husband? Or would you just do it to help
him out because he obviously forgot? Changing the roles around helped me a
great deal when I wanted to parent more mindfully. How would I treat my dh
or best friend or mom if it was the same situation?
-Dawn
I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How would you have reacted if this was your husband who had left the fan and
light on? Would you even consider this a power struggle? If it had been my
dh I would have turned the light and fan off and maybe mentioned to my dh
that he forgot to turn the fan/light off *again*. I would probably not
mention it only because I would forget to. Would you feel it catering if you
turned off the fan/light for your husband? Or would you just do it to help
him out because he obviously forgot? Changing the roles around helped me a
great deal when I wanted to parent more mindfully. How would I treat my dh
or best friend or mom if it was the same situation?
-Dawn
I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.~
It sounds like you already know this from a logical point of view, but
your emotions haven't caught up yet. That's really normal.
I KNOW with all of my being how certain issues are best handled. That
doesn't stop old emotions from rising up at weak moments. I guess I'm
being made more aware of that baggage this last couple of weeks, as
Jalen has been having a really rough time of it.
We can KNOW exactly how we would like to react ideally, yet emotional
baggage rears it's ugly head. I like to use internal dialogues in
moments like this. As Dawn mentioned, pretending like it was your
partner might help shift the perspective in the moment. I do that, or
I talk to myself and question why/where/how this feeling is surging
up. My kids have no idea how many times I talk to my inner self and
try to resolve issues before something pops out of my mouth or
manifests itself in some other lame way.;)
Another tool in my toolbox is asking myself whether this issue would
be worth taking a stand on if myself or my child was gone tomorrow.
Most issues aren't worth making a big deal about in light of that.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
It sounds like you already know this from a logical point of view, but
your emotions haven't caught up yet. That's really normal.
I KNOW with all of my being how certain issues are best handled. That
doesn't stop old emotions from rising up at weak moments. I guess I'm
being made more aware of that baggage this last couple of weeks, as
Jalen has been having a really rough time of it.
We can KNOW exactly how we would like to react ideally, yet emotional
baggage rears it's ugly head. I like to use internal dialogues in
moments like this. As Dawn mentioned, pretending like it was your
partner might help shift the perspective in the moment. I do that, or
I talk to myself and question why/where/how this feeling is surging
up. My kids have no idea how many times I talk to my inner self and
try to resolve issues before something pops out of my mouth or
manifests itself in some other lame way.;)
Another tool in my toolbox is asking myself whether this issue would
be worth taking a stand on if myself or my child was gone tomorrow.
Most issues aren't worth making a big deal about in light of that.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 21, 2006, at 11:06 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
visual clue that the light is still on and I've left it on as often
as turned it off.
How should the family get me to turn it off? Should they call me down
from upstairs to turn it off? Should they get angry that I've left it
on again? Should they give me black star when I leave it on and gold
when I turn it off?
Would any of those work for you?
How about if they saw it on they just turned it off? What if
conserving electricity was the goal rather than training someone else
to conserve electricity. (Especially since I already *want* to
conserve electricity.)
Kids honestly and truly tend to be unaware of their environment. As
unaware as I am of the light in the bathroom behind me. They are so
focused on what they're doing that they don't see what's around them.
(Or don't see it in the same way as we do.) He probably will be more
aware as he gets older but maybe it's just his personality and he
won't. Calling him down to turn off the light won't make him aware.
It won't change his personality. But it sure will make him irritated!
And maybe you'll train him to associate the irritation with
conserving electricity and he'll be determined to leave lights on as
much as possible!
Maybe ask yourself "What if this is one of the moments he remembers
from his childhood? Do I want him remembering me for this?"
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Tonight, he left the basementWe have a bathroom off a bright hall. As I'm leaving there isn't a
> light and fan on. I wanted him to go down and shut it off.
visual clue that the light is still on and I've left it on as often
as turned it off.
How should the family get me to turn it off? Should they call me down
from upstairs to turn it off? Should they get angry that I've left it
on again? Should they give me black star when I leave it on and gold
when I turn it off?
Would any of those work for you?
How about if they saw it on they just turned it off? What if
conserving electricity was the goal rather than training someone else
to conserve electricity. (Especially since I already *want* to
conserve electricity.)
Kids honestly and truly tend to be unaware of their environment. As
unaware as I am of the light in the bathroom behind me. They are so
focused on what they're doing that they don't see what's around them.
(Or don't see it in the same way as we do.) He probably will be more
aware as he gets older but maybe it's just his personality and he
won't. Calling him down to turn off the light won't make him aware.
It won't change his personality. But it sure will make him irritated!
And maybe you'll train him to associate the irritation with
conserving electricity and he'll be determined to leave lights on as
much as possible!
Maybe ask yourself "What if this is one of the moments he remembers
from his childhood? Do I want him remembering me for this?"
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Eugenie van Ruitenbeek
Hi,
I can strongly recommend the book of Eckhart Tolle about this issue.
It is not your Being that responds to this situation but your ego. And
ego is always about struggle, fight, right and wrong and so on...
I read this book and it taught me to see when I move from within and
when I move out of the cramps of ego.
Hth,
Eugenie
http://www.cygnus-books.co.uk/features/new-earth-eckhart-tolle.htm
I can strongly recommend the book of Eckhart Tolle about this issue.
It is not your Being that responds to this situation but your ego. And
ego is always about struggle, fight, right and wrong and so on...
I read this book and it taught me to see when I move from within and
when I move out of the cramps of ego.
Hth,
Eugenie
http://www.cygnus-books.co.uk/features/new-earth-eckhart-tolle.htm
Ren Allen
Another tool that has helped me in these moments of frustration is
practicing observation of my feelings. Without trying to come up with
ANY solution, or fix anything in the moment, just noticing the
feelings that are surging up.
I feel them, question their origins and just let the frustration (or
feelings of being ignored, disrespected etc..) be noticed. After a
minute or two of feeling it, I notice it subsides a bit. Usually,
after being in this observation mode for a while, the feeling goes
away completely and I can really see solutions very clearly.
Usually it's not about whatever seems to be frustrating me in the
moment. The dirty dishes (that nobody rinsed and are now like glue),
or puddle of water in front of the fridge (because somebody let ice
drop from the ice maker and didn't pick it up, so I've stepped in a
puddle of cold water again) are not really the issues at ALL. It's
the feelings I associate with those issues.....mostly because of my
past training.
I think we can re-train our ingrained reactions to a large
degree...but when the ingrained reaction causes a strong emotion to
well up, I can still choose to simply observe myself, rather than react.
The book "Wherever you go, there you are" helped me with this a lot.
Any of Jon Kabat-Zinn's books are fabulous.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
practicing observation of my feelings. Without trying to come up with
ANY solution, or fix anything in the moment, just noticing the
feelings that are surging up.
I feel them, question their origins and just let the frustration (or
feelings of being ignored, disrespected etc..) be noticed. After a
minute or two of feeling it, I notice it subsides a bit. Usually,
after being in this observation mode for a while, the feeling goes
away completely and I can really see solutions very clearly.
Usually it's not about whatever seems to be frustrating me in the
moment. The dirty dishes (that nobody rinsed and are now like glue),
or puddle of water in front of the fridge (because somebody let ice
drop from the ice maker and didn't pick it up, so I've stepped in a
puddle of cold water again) are not really the issues at ALL. It's
the feelings I associate with those issues.....mostly because of my
past training.
I think we can re-train our ingrained reactions to a large
degree...but when the ingrained reaction causes a strong emotion to
well up, I can still choose to simply observe myself, rather than react.
The book "Wherever you go, there you are" helped me with this a lot.
Any of Jon Kabat-Zinn's books are fabulous.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Anne Lawrie
I can't thank you all enough for being here, and so willingly sharing your experiences. I understand this issue oh so well, and have to admit that my emotional baggage often pops out before my logic can take over, but I'm working on it. I like the dh suggestion. I've tried to stop and think how I would react if it was someone else's child--would I be more understanding or patient? Thanks again! Back to lurkdom.
Warmly,
Anne
Don't forget to breathe!
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Warmly,
Anne
Don't forget to breathe!
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alice Sackman
> Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.I get sucked into these emotional battles too. Suddenly, it is not just
about turning off a light, it is this HUGE BIG DEAL and if I do it for
the kid then I am being MANIPULATED. But I had a lightbulb moment a few
weeks ago when my niece (yes - the same one who was getting sick because
she didn't want to help when we were camping) pulled it on my 5 yo dd.
What happened was this: My dd came running into the house and left the
front door open. Dear Niece (who is 9 BTW) walks into the front room,
sees it open and then begins this long and loud spiel. "AUDREY!
AUDREY! Get in here right now!" Audrey comes running. "YOU left the
front door open! What do you think???? Is it going to CLOSE by
itself?? YOU get over there and close it right now" Audrey is in
tears now and closes the door and runs to me crying. I was on my way
to stop the conversation but was too late. I ended up telling my dn
that we don't talk to each other like that in this house and that if she
wants the door closed, just go over and close the door. No need to make
someone cry about it.
Seeing my niece pull this on my daughter made me realize just how absurd
this type of behavior is. Like someone said, focus on the goal of
turning of the light or closing the door. This is so easy to accomplish
and no one needs to end up crying or getting mad over it. I think the
only reason we adults pull this kind of behavior is because we were
treated this way as children. As I listened to my niece, I thought "Oh!
So that is how they talk to her at her house! How horrible!"
-Alice
Ren Allen
"Seeing my niece pull this on my daughter made me realize just how absurd
this type of behavior is. Like someone said, focus on the goal of
turning of the light or closing the door. This is so easy to accomplish
and no one needs to end up crying or getting mad over it."
Exactly!!
My dh has this thing about "who left the mayonaisse out?" (or milk or
whatever) rather than just putting it back in the damn FRIDGE!! Which
is the whole point right?
I see him spend more energy trying to track down who did it (just to
tell them to put it away) than simply opening the door and sticking it
IN. I laugh at him (not in a mean way, but a baffled way) and just put
it away for him then say "ok, now you can go figure out who did it".
He doesn't do that as often now.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
this type of behavior is. Like someone said, focus on the goal of
turning of the light or closing the door. This is so easy to accomplish
and no one needs to end up crying or getting mad over it."
Exactly!!
My dh has this thing about "who left the mayonaisse out?" (or milk or
whatever) rather than just putting it back in the damn FRIDGE!! Which
is the whole point right?
I see him spend more energy trying to track down who did it (just to
tell them to put it away) than simply opening the door and sticking it
IN. I laugh at him (not in a mean way, but a baffled way) and just put
it away for him then say "ok, now you can go figure out who did it".
He doesn't do that as often now.:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: starsuncloud@...
Tonight, he left the basement
light and fan on. I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
--=-=-
So, did you ASK him? Was it a *request*? May he not say no? Why not?
May you say no, at *his* next request? Why?
Did he scream "NO, I never will, and you can't make me!"? Or did he
really just say that he didn't want to go up and down the stairs again.
Is that not reason enough? Is that a good enough reason for you or your
husband? Why? Why not?
If he lost the use of his legs, would that be enough of a reason? If
he were in a coma? If he leaves home because he thinks you're so
unreasonable? <bwg>
Wouldn't it be better in the long run for him to see you do it out of
kindness? That way he'll learn to do things for *you* (and others) out
of kindness. Things done out of obligation or with bitterness---hell,
I'd rather they not be done at all! <g>
-=-=-=-
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
-=-=-==-
Because your relationship is more important than who turns out the
light.
I sent an earlier e-mail about installing another switch. Seriously
consider that. It's not that expensive, and it could save a bunch of
steps and some anger too! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: starsuncloud@...
Tonight, he left the basement
light and fan on. I wanted him to go down and shut it off. He was in
his bedroom, playing his DS. I asked him to and he said he didn't
want to go up and down the stairs again. I feel the old tapes in my
head not wanting to cater to him and shut it off.
--=-=-
So, did you ASK him? Was it a *request*? May he not say no? Why not?
May you say no, at *his* next request? Why?
Did he scream "NO, I never will, and you can't make me!"? Or did he
really just say that he didn't want to go up and down the stairs again.
Is that not reason enough? Is that a good enough reason for you or your
husband? Why? Why not?
If he lost the use of his legs, would that be enough of a reason? If
he were in a coma? If he leaves home because he thinks you're so
unreasonable? <bwg>
Wouldn't it be better in the long run for him to see you do it out of
kindness? That way he'll learn to do things for *you* (and others) out
of kindness. Things done out of obligation or with bitterness---hell,
I'd rather they not be done at all! <g>
-=-=-=-
Tell me why I NEED to shut it off and not pick this silly battle.
-=-=-==-
Because your relationship is more important than who turns out the
light.
I sent an earlier e-mail about installing another switch. Seriously
consider that. It's not that expensive, and it could save a bunch of
steps and some anger too! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.