Ren Allen

Vijay posted this at AU today (where a food discussion is going on
simultaneously) and I thought she covered just about EVERYTHING
relating to RU and food. It's great! Here ya go:

I have a crazy week coming up, and probably won't be able to post much,
but a few thoughts popped into my head and I just wanted to share them
before I try to disappear for a few days. It's hard to leave! This list
is so compelling. There has been a food discussion at UB *and* here and
I can't keep it all straight, so please forgive if this is a kind of
non sequitur. Anyone who belongs to both and thinks this should be
posted at UB can go ahead and put it up there. I'm sorry this got so
long, I kept trying to revise it and pare it down, but kept adding
stuff instead. :-)

The whole food issue for me comes down to trust. People don't believe
that a 3 y.o. (or younger, since we've basically been unfooding almost
right from the beginning) can be in charge of their own food choices
because they don't know about carbs, protein, good fats, bad fats,
fiber, cholesterol, atherosclerosis, etc. But I have seen first hand
that even though my DD is drawn to chips and cookies sometimes, she
consumes them in moderation even though she is not limited by me.

Even if she *only* wanted to eat chips and cookies we'd find a way to
make that work. It would cut into our current food and time budget a
bit to make and buy healthier versions, but if DD was even more
selective than she is now about food we'd work it out without
compromising our RU beliefs. We'd drive the 45 minutes to Whole Foods
to buy the premade foods and the ingredients we needed. It would cost a
lot more, and it would be a lot more trouble, but I'm not about to let
my kid subsist solely on the brands of chips and cookies that we can
buy at our local supermarket. That would be irresponsible. Luckily for
me, that's not what she wants.

If we never went to the store together, or if we never went to
restaurants together she might never ask for fries or chips, but she
goes wherever I go. I'm not going to keep her in an artificial bubble
at home. I want her to experience life as fully as possible (time,
budget, and other restrictions permitting). She lives a healthy active
lifestyle, stays well hydrated, and is basically a very happy healthy
kid. Someday when they serve "monkey platters" at restaurants for kids
that's what I'll order, but for now fries are just about the only thing
they serve that she will eat. We of course always put bits of our
chicken, fish, veggies, etc. on her plate but she doesn't eat them.

In case my point is getting lost, let me stress what is important to
me. That she go through life maintaining the healthy active lifestyle
that she has now, learns to trust herself in the food choices that she
makes, as in everything else. And that she trusts me to be her partner,
not her boss. That she doesn't feel sneaky or guilty about "bad" foods.
That she looks at food as what it is: fuel that keeps us going, that
can be enjoyed, but isn't the end all and be all of the universe. You
can enjoy growing food, preparing food, eating food, and the act of
"breaking bread" with your friends and family. And we enjoy all of
those things! But food is not love. Food is not a way to stuff your
shame and low self esteem down inside. Food should not be used as a way
to numb yourself to whatever stress and pain life sends you.

My daughter will never have to know the shame of having to stuff her
chunky self into an unflattering gym uniform and struggle to take her
body -- a body that is forced to sit in a chair, hour after hour, day
after day -- and put it through ridiculous paces. Climbing ropes is FUN
for her because she's not being forced to do it while 30 other kids
point and laugh. Running is done for the sheer joy of it, not because
you are being tested on how fast you can run the mile.

I trust that my daughter will learn more and more about food as she
matures, and it may not be about calorie counts, or grams of fat. It
may simply be based on how different foods taste, and how they make her
feel. How wonderful if I can give that gift to her by merely butting
out! For her to be able to maintain a healthy weight without dieting or
obsessing about grams of carbs! For her to feel good about herself even
with a few extra pounds (though she seems very lean now) and not
develop anorexia or bulemia as so many young girls do.

Controlling what she eats now, and then having her suddenly be on her
own without me there to police what she eats doesn't seem like the
right path to me. We all have to find our own way, and this is my
approach. The trust approach to food. Unfooding always sounds to me
like "not feeding" so maybe I'll just coin a new term: "the total trust
approach to toddler food and nutrition."

Is there an acronym in there? LOL

I haven't read much about modeling in this discussion, but it's so
important. These unschooled kids aren't making decisions in a vacuum.
Actually just writing that, I think someone *did* say it, but it bears
repeating. DD sees me eating fruit, veggies, chicken, salad and other
healthy stuff and she is always offered whatever I am eating, whatever
DH is eating. She is simply not interested in many fruits or vegetables
now. She likes blueberries and that's fine with me. She likes peas, and
carrots, and that's fine too. She doesn't have to eat lettuce or
bananas to be healthy.

It's not like she NEVER eats healthy stuff, she just picks and chooses
and some of it is healthy and some if it is a little on the sugary or
salty side. That's okay with me! She often asks for new foods and
doesn't eat them, but the tenth time I put it in front of her, she will
often try it and then ask for more. She did this with strawberries. She
saw me buy them, she saw me wash them and slice them for Violet and for
myself and DH. She was often offered some and always declined. Then she
asked for some and didn't eat them. This happened several times. Each
time she asked I just put a few on her plate with no expectations.
Maybe the 5th or 6th time, she ate them and asked for more. That's an
approach anyone can try and see what happens. When they ask for 3
things, just always add a 4th, and just keep doing it with the same 4th
food until they eventually try it. You don't even have to say anything!

Mealtime right now looks like this: if DD knows what she wants, cool.
But if she doesn't, I take one of those plates with the partitions and
I put something protein-y like meat or pasta or cheese, some kind of
veggie that she likes, and some kind of fruit that she likes. Then I'll
add one more thing that she normally doesn't like (I don't know, beans
or something) that I'd like her to try and I put the whole thing in
front of her. If she just eats one food, or just a few bites of each,
fine, the rest goes back in the fridge for later. No stress, no bribes,
no ultimatums, no pressure, no guilt. Just here you go. All done? Okay,
let's go play. Simple, no?

I'll buy cookies or make cookies, usually oatmeal, and when we run out
I just tell her we'll put it on the list (if I'm not feeling up to
making them) and she's satisfied with that because she knows I mean it.
Same with popsicles. If we run out of her favorite we go down the line
until we're working on the least favorite kinds and she knows when we
go to the store soon her faves will be replenished. Trust. I don't hold
up cookies or popsicles as being a reward, or a "naughty" food, or
something that she can't eat for breakfast, or only after she finishes
her peas.

After studying journalism and biology as an undergrad, I was *this
close* to going to grad school for nutrition science. I was going to
bash my brains in trying to find the TRUTH in all of the half-truths,
propaganda, and lies out there when it comes to diet and nutrition, and
then translate all of the science-speak into normal terms for normal
people. For rates that the average person can actually afford! I
decided against it only because I hate school! It's so expensive, and
all they do is set you loose with a textbook and then test you on it.
Oh, and boring lectures that are basically the same info as the text.
For this they want tens of thousands of dollars? Hmpf. Maybe it's
different at the grad level but I'll never know!

The whole cigarette analogy is absurd, IMO. I can't remember if it was
here or at UB or both, but someone basically asked would you put a bowl
of cigarettes out for your kids to smoke and equating that to parents
who give their kids "junk" foods. Smoking is a combination of modeling,
rebellion, and addiction. Kids whose parents smoke are more likely to
smoke. Kids who are more susceptible to peer pressure are more likely
to smoke to fit in with the "cool" kids. Kids who want to say to their
controlling parents, "FU! This is my body and I'm going to desecrate it
just to piss you off!" are more likely to smoke. Kids who try smoking a
few times for whatever reason, curiosity or whatever, who have
addictive personalities are more likely to keep smoking. There are so
many factors at work here that have nothing whatsoever to do with food
that it makes no sense to compare the two. Especially since most of the
factors I named above don't even apply to most unschooled kids.

-Vijay

seccotine_ch

That's really a great post !

I haven't read the whole thread, so please excuse me if I'm
redundant.

When I was a child, I was really a picky eater : I didn't like
fruits or vegetables ... I liked potatoes, raw carrots, yaourt, milk
(very much), meal (a bit) and, above all, chocolate. I don't know
why, my parents didn't force me to eat (though they did with my
eldest sisters). Sometimes they forced me to taste, but I never had
to finish my plate, and my father thought that a child always
deserved a desert if she wants one, no matter what she ate before ...

I became more curious with food as I was growing up, and now I eat
pretty much everything (still don't like fruits, though, except for
a few of them) and I am always willingly to taste something new
(there are a few "textures" that repell me). I feel good (don't know
how to say that : my body and I are good buddies)

Because of my example, my sister is very relaxed with food issues
and has never forced her daughters to eat anything. She even kept
plenty of sweets at home with no restricted access and for a while
my younger niece really ate a lot of them and not very much of
anything else ... Her elder sister eats tons of fruits and don't
like sweets, except for chocolate (genetics ;)). They are both very
healthy girls.

Just my testimony, for what it's worth ...

Helen


--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> Vijay posted this at AU today (where a food discussion is going on
> simultaneously) and I thought she covered just about EVERYTHING
> relating to RU and food. It's great! Here ya go:
>
> I have a crazy week coming up, and probably won't be able to post
much,
> but a few thoughts popped into my head and I just wanted to share
them
> before I try to disappear for a few days. It's hard to leave! This
list
> is so compelling. There has been a food discussion at UB *and*
here and
> I can't keep it all straight, so please forgive if this is a kind
of
> non sequitur. Anyone who belongs to both and thinks this should be
> posted at UB can go ahead and put it up there. I'm sorry this got
so
> long, I kept trying to revise it and pare it down, but kept adding
> stuff instead. :-)
>
> The whole food issue for me comes down to trust. People don't
believe
> that a 3 y.o. (or younger, since we've basically been unfooding
almost
> right from the beginning) can be in charge of their own food
choices
> because they don't know about carbs, protein, good fats, bad fats,
> fiber, cholesterol, atherosclerosis, etc. But I have seen first
hand
> that even though my DD is drawn to chips and cookies sometimes, she
> consumes them in moderation even though she is not limited by me.
>
> Even if she *only* wanted to eat chips and cookies we'd find a way
to
> make that work. It would cut into our current food and time budget
a
> bit to make and buy healthier versions, but if DD was even more
> selective than she is now about food we'd work it out without
> compromising our RU beliefs. We'd drive the 45 minutes to Whole
Foods
> to buy the premade foods and the ingredients we needed. It would
cost a
> lot more, and it would be a lot more trouble, but I'm not about to
let
> my kid subsist solely on the brands of chips and cookies that we
can
> buy at our local supermarket. That would be irresponsible. Luckily
for
> me, that's not what she wants.
>
> If we never went to the store together, or if we never went to
> restaurants together she might never ask for fries or chips, but
she
> goes wherever I go. I'm not going to keep her in an artificial
bubble
> at home. I want her to experience life as fully as possible (time,
> budget, and other restrictions permitting). She lives a healthy
active
> lifestyle, stays well hydrated, and is basically a very happy
healthy
> kid. Someday when they serve "monkey platters" at restaurants for
kids
> that's what I'll order, but for now fries are just about the only
thing
> they serve that she will eat. We of course always put bits of our
> chicken, fish, veggies, etc. on her plate but she doesn't eat them.
>
> In case my point is getting lost, let me stress what is important
to
> me. That she go through life maintaining the healthy active
lifestyle
> that she has now, learns to trust herself in the food choices that
she
> makes, as in everything else. And that she trusts me to be her
partner,
> not her boss. That she doesn't feel sneaky or guilty about "bad"
foods.
> That she looks at food as what it is: fuel that keeps us going,
that
> can be enjoyed, but isn't the end all and be all of the universe.
You
> can enjoy growing food, preparing food, eating food, and the act of
> "breaking bread" with your friends and family. And we enjoy all of
> those things! But food is not love. Food is not a way to stuff your
> shame and low self esteem down inside. Food should not be used as
a way
> to numb yourself to whatever stress and pain life sends you.
>
> My daughter will never have to know the shame of having to stuff
her
> chunky self into an unflattering gym uniform and struggle to take
her
> body -- a body that is forced to sit in a chair, hour after hour,
day
> after day -- and put it through ridiculous paces. Climbing ropes
is FUN
> for her because she's not being forced to do it while 30 other kids
> point and laugh. Running is done for the sheer joy of it, not
because
> you are being tested on how fast you can run the mile.
>
> I trust that my daughter will learn more and more about food as she
> matures, and it may not be about calorie counts, or grams of fat.
It
> may simply be based on how different foods taste, and how they
make her
> feel. How wonderful if I can give that gift to her by merely
butting
> out! For her to be able to maintain a healthy weight without
dieting or
> obsessing about grams of carbs! For her to feel good about herself
even
> with a few extra pounds (though she seems very lean now) and not
> develop anorexia or bulemia as so many young girls do.
>
> Controlling what she eats now, and then having her suddenly be on
her
> own without me there to police what she eats doesn't seem like the
> right path to me. We all have to find our own way, and this is my
> approach. The trust approach to food. Unfooding always sounds to me
> like "not feeding" so maybe I'll just coin a new term: "the total
trust
> approach to toddler food and nutrition."
>
> Is there an acronym in there? LOL
>
> I haven't read much about modeling in this discussion, but it's so
> important. These unschooled kids aren't making decisions in a
vacuum.
> Actually just writing that, I think someone *did* say it, but it
bears
> repeating. DD sees me eating fruit, veggies, chicken, salad and
other
> healthy stuff and she is always offered whatever I am eating,
whatever
> DH is eating. She is simply not interested in many fruits or
vegetables
> now. She likes blueberries and that's fine with me. She likes
peas, and
> carrots, and that's fine too. She doesn't have to eat lettuce or
> bananas to be healthy.
>
> It's not like she NEVER eats healthy stuff, she just picks and
chooses
> and some of it is healthy and some if it is a little on the sugary
or
> salty side. That's okay with me! She often asks for new foods and
> doesn't eat them, but the tenth time I put it in front of her, she
will
> often try it and then ask for more. She did this with
strawberries. She
> saw me buy them, she saw me wash them and slice them for Violet
and for
> myself and DH. She was often offered some and always declined.
Then she
> asked for some and didn't eat them. This happened several times.
Each
> time she asked I just put a few on her plate with no expectations.
> Maybe the 5th or 6th time, she ate them and asked for more. That's
an
> approach anyone can try and see what happens. When they ask for 3
> things, just always add a 4th, and just keep doing it with the
same 4th
> food until they eventually try it. You don't even have to say
anything!
>
> Mealtime right now looks like this: if DD knows what she wants,
cool.
> But if she doesn't, I take one of those plates with the partitions
and
> I put something protein-y like meat or pasta or cheese, some kind
of
> veggie that she likes, and some kind of fruit that she likes. Then
I'll
> add one more thing that she normally doesn't like (I don't know,
beans
> or something) that I'd like her to try and I put the whole thing in
> front of her. If she just eats one food, or just a few bites of
each,
> fine, the rest goes back in the fridge for later. No stress, no
bribes,
> no ultimatums, no pressure, no guilt. Just here you go. All done?
Okay,
> let's go play. Simple, no?
>
> I'll buy cookies or make cookies, usually oatmeal, and when we run
out
> I just tell her we'll put it on the list (if I'm not feeling up to
> making them) and she's satisfied with that because she knows I
mean it.
> Same with popsicles. If we run out of her favorite we go down the
line
> until we're working on the least favorite kinds and she knows when
we
> go to the store soon her faves will be replenished. Trust. I don't
hold
> up cookies or popsicles as being a reward, or a "naughty" food, or
> something that she can't eat for breakfast, or only after she
finishes
> her peas.
>
> After studying journalism and biology as an undergrad, I was *this
> close* to going to grad school for nutrition science. I was going
to
> bash my brains in trying to find the TRUTH in all of the half-
truths,
> propaganda, and lies out there when it comes to diet and
nutrition, and
> then translate all of the science-speak into normal terms for
normal
> people. For rates that the average person can actually afford! I
> decided against it only because I hate school! It's so expensive,
and
> all they do is set you loose with a textbook and then test you on
it.
> Oh, and boring lectures that are basically the same info as the
text.
> For this they want tens of thousands of dollars? Hmpf. Maybe it's
> different at the grad level but I'll never know!
>
> The whole cigarette analogy is absurd, IMO. I can't remember if it
was
> here or at UB or both, but someone basically asked would you put a
bowl
> of cigarettes out for your kids to smoke and equating that to
parents
> who give their kids "junk" foods. Smoking is a combination of
modeling,
> rebellion, and addiction. Kids whose parents smoke are more likely
to
> smoke. Kids who are more susceptible to peer pressure are more
likely
> to smoke to fit in with the "cool" kids. Kids who want to say to
their
> controlling parents, "FU! This is my body and I'm going to
desecrate it
> just to piss you off!" are more likely to smoke. Kids who try
smoking a
> few times for whatever reason, curiosity or whatever, who have
> addictive personalities are more likely to keep smoking. There are
so
> many factors at work here that have nothing whatsoever to do with
food
> that it makes no sense to compare the two. Especially since most
of the
> factors I named above don't even apply to most unschooled kids.
>
> -Vijay
>

Betsy Hill

**The whole cigarette analogy is absurd, IMO. I can't remember if it was
here or at UB or both, but someone basically asked would you put a bowl
of cigarettes out for your kids to smoke and equating that to parents
who give their kids "junk" foods.**

I think I came up with an analogy that's less extreme and fits better.

My son just got an iPod, before that he had been listening to songs we
both like on mine. When I turn on my iPod after he has been listening
to it, it's about four settings louder than I would listen to it. (It
doesn't blast my ears out, but it is noticeably louder than just
audible.) There have been recent articles that extended listening
time from an iPod or other in-the-ears device can cause hearing loss.
(And some lawsuits against Apple, I think.)

My husband, 49, is already showing some amount of hearing loss that
may affect his ability to hold down a job (as a classroom teacher).
However, his hearing lost is likely not from exposure to loud noise as
he has never worked at a noisy job and didn't go to concerts or own a
stereo as a teen, or listen to loud music as an adult. So like heart
disease, some disfunction may just be an inevitable byproduct of age,
at least for some people.

I've discussed with my son (12) the possibility that listening to
moderately loud music for long periods can damage hearing. What else
should I do? More reseach to figure out more precisely the volume
levels that can cause trouble?

He may listen 3 plus hours a day, probably less than enough to cause
"overuse" problems. Music has mood-elevatng effects and he sings and
dances when listening. One can't say that the health effects of the
iPod are all negative, because of these positives.

If I give too many reminders about volume, that's gonna backfire,
possibly?

Thanks,
Betsy

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: ecsamhill@...

I've discussed with my son (12) the possibility that listening to
moderately loud music for long periods can damage hearing. What else
should I do? More reseach to figure out more precisely the volume
levels that can cause trouble?

He may listen 3 plus hours a day, probably less than enough to cause
"overuse" problems. Music has mood-elevatng effects and he sings and
dances when listening. One can't say that the health effects of the
iPod are all negative, because of these positives.

If I give too many reminders about volume, that's gonna backfire,
possibly?

-=-=-=-=-=-

Hard to say which way...

We have some more direct loudness issues: Cameron's in a few bands!
<G> Long-time drummers are notoriously deaf or hard of hearing!

My brother-in-law is an EN&T doc and knew that Cameron was playing the
drums. For his birthday this year, Skip had Cam come in for an ear exam
and to be fitted for some special musicians' ear plugs as a birthday
present. Cameron also got an earful of how sensitive our ears actually
are with charts and photos and such.

He *always* performs with those ear plugs in. He carries them with him
always---just like his drum sticks.

He's been asking me for a set of practice ear phones which I finally
bought this past week. They're *much* bigger than the ear plugs and
have some other benefits. They arrived yesterday---and I haven't seen
him that happy in a while! <bwg> He'll wear those every time he
practices.

But he's funny about his ears. I always listen to my music full
blast---in the car especially when no one else is with me. As a child,
I *loved* to be home alone with my stereo turned all the way up! <G>
And three hours for me was nothing! I was just getting warmed up! <G>
But we didn't have iPods. They're actually IN the ears! Cam's iPod is
always on low, and his stereo is never loud in his room.

I told him yesterday that he was a bit unusual in that he actually
*wanted* to protect his ears. At his age, most kids are sitting as
close to the speakers as they can! <G>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll

________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Elissa Jill Cleaveland

What else
should I do? More reseach to figure out more precisely the volume
levels that can cause trouble?
*********
There are loads of choices in Ipod speakers. We have a set for Zack's room. We also have some sort of electronic contraption that enables the iPod to play through the car stereo.
I don't think the ear buds are even used anymore.
Elissa Jill, going back to CNN:o(
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 7/15/06, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:

> But we didn't have iPods. They're actually IN the ears! Cam's iPod is
> always on low, and his stereo is never loud in his room.
>

My kids can't stand ear buds. They have "ear speakers" which look
like the old foam covered head phones from my college days, but they
have these ear pieces that slip over the ear rather than a wire over
the head. They are quite comfortable and keep the music out of the
ear. I think it has to do with the way their ears are formed. I
actually like ear buds, but the kids say they just don't fit their
ears well and feel "funny" My my blue tooth headphone/speaker for my
cell phone, wich I call Lt. Uhuru after Star Trek TOS has a similar
ear clippy thing like their headphones. They are a bit more spendy,
like $12-$20 but the kids like them so much better.

--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

Cheryl

>>The whole cigarette analogy is absurd, IMO. I can't remember if it was
here or at UB or both, but someone basically asked would you put a bowl
of cigarettes out for your kids to smoke and equating that to parents
who give their kids "junk" foods. Smoking is a combination of modeling,
rebellion, and addiction.
>>-Vijay

***********

I have a huge amount of unread digests to read, that I've kept specifically
to read this topic on food. I hope I'm not asking something already
covered, and I probably will sound absurd, in my ignorance.
My question - my fear, actually - is that because I AM extremely addicted to
sugar (like some are addicted to smokes), that I'm modelling somethign
horrible to my todler and can't unfood in the way it is *supposed* to be
done, if that's even possible. I'm working on my addiction and getting
therapy for the underlying issues, and I'm getting better. I think I will
be a good food-eating-model soon. I've actually maintained a good history
of eating healthy in my many years *prior* to parenting, so this is an
unusually dark period for me in how destructive my food choices have been.
However, things have gotten way out of hand, the last 2 yrs, due to marital
stress. So maybe it'll be easy to embrace unfooding as my addictions
crumble. In the meantime, the fear is getting the best of me and it seems
inappropriate to openly model my addiction to sugary foods. What do you all
think? Oh, I do *try* to release my fears, and let dd eat by her choice.
Some days I do well, others I get restrictive. I'm quite the jelly fish on
this because of this fear factor.

Cheryl

"Keep knocking and the joy inside will eventually open a window and look to
see who's there."
- Jalal Al-Din Rumi, a 13th century Sufi poet & mystic

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:27 AM, Cheryl wrote:

> In the meantime, the fear is getting the best of me and it seems
> inappropriate to openly model my addiction to sugary foods. What
> do you all
> think? Oh, I do *try* to release my fears, and let dd eat by her
> choice.
> Some days I do well, others I get restrictive. I'm quite the jelly
> fish on
> this because of this fear factor.

It might make you feel better to know that my kids make FAR better
food choices than I do - they've been unlimited and unguilted. I
don't beat myself up, openly, over my own choices to eat high-fat or
high-sugar foods. The kids just accept the way I eat as my food
choices, not theirs. So - you might not be able to silence the voice
in your head that's making you feel guilty, but you can keep your own
guilt feelings to yourself so that your child doesn't have to know
you're having food issues.

Just focus on making sure she has lots of good options that are
delicious and enticing to her - which I know you already do.

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
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bapretzel_2

Yes, that's reassuring, thanks Pam. Did you ever have periods -
especially during their todlerhood - where you *modelled* extremely
sugary/high fat choices? Becuase although I'm offering healthier
options & they're available at her level in the fridge, etc, the more
open I am about my constant sugar eating, the more she appears to be
opting for sugary choices, too. I just worry that this stage in her
life is particularly crucial in developing sugar addictions (kinda
like the media thing I mentioned)... Though my fear is probably
clouding my judgement on this topic.

Was the key to your children's food choices the attitude you modelled
(freedom from shame), or the physical choices (lots of high fat/sugary
foods)- Wouldn't both end up having an affect on your children's
choices? Or was that just not the case? Or maybe it differed
depending on personality, etc.

C
****
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> It might make you feel better to know that my kids make FAR better
food choices than I do - they've been unlimited and unguilted. I
don't beat myself up, openly, over my own choices to eat high-fat or
high-sugar foods.

bapretzel_2

Sorry, that was repetitive...
C

*************
--- >
>Did you ever have periods -
especially during their todlerhood - where you *modelled* extremely
>sugary/high fat choices?
- c

<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> It might make you feel better to know that my kids make FAR better
food choices than I do - they've been unlimited and unguilted. I
don't beat myself up, openly, over my own choices to eat high-fat or
high-sugar foods.

Michelle/Melbrigða

On 7/15/06, Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>

> It might make you feel better to know that my kids make FAR better
> food choices than I do - they've been unlimited and unguilted. I
> don't beat myself up, openly, over my own choices to eat high-fat or
> high-sugar foods.

I will second Pam on this one. Even with my choices my kids eat a
much more varied (as in from different food groups) than I do. I
think one of the biggest things that I have started doing is listening
to my body and not always saying yes when I hear food mentioned (sort
of the opposite of the "unschooling no"). For instance if my kids ask
me if I want some pocky instead of instantly saying yes, I will pause
for a second and evaluate if I am hungry and if I really want pocky.
Sometimes I do. Sometimes I realize that I really don't and will say,
"I'll pass for now. Thanks for offering, though. Maybe later."

--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist

Pamela Sorooshian

On Jul 15, 2006, at 1:45 PM, bapretzel_2 wrote:

> Yes, that's reassuring, thanks Pam. Did you ever have periods -
> especially during their todlerhood - where you *modelled* extremely
> sugary/high fat choices?

After childhood, I have always eaten more fatty and sugary stuff than
I thought was healthy - and felt guilty about it, yes.

Still do it.

But I have foregone buying a box of cookies and bought great-looking
pears, instead, too.

I really do think the key is having lots of good stuff around.

By the way, "I" grew up with almost no processed foods, no soda, no
store-bought cookies, etc. TV dinners came out when I was in
elementary school and we got to have one of those on the occasional
nights we had a babysitter. I had Oreos at my friend's house. I don't
remember having chips except at a party. I remember the first time I
tasted soda - thought it would burn my tongue off. My dad would go
out and get fresh-made donuts - maybe once every 6 months. But
otherwise, any sweets we had were homemade by my mom - oatmeal
cookies was typical - and not too often. Sweets were definitely
restricted and came out only on special occasions. Or, it is more
accurate to say that being allowed to have sweets WAS automatically a
special occasion.

I lived on donuts, Doritos and Coca-Cola in high school. I had no
CLUE about food - what would make me feel good, etc. I was completely
and totally out of touch with my own body's food needs.

So - I'm not sure my mother's modeling of making and eating only
nutritious foods was a great idea. Left me a little helpless in the
face of Doritos and Coke.

-pam

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