drusila00

My son (11) loves people and is very sweet natured and sensitive. he
wants friends very badly.

(I hate to use the label but he has been diagnosed under the
umbrella term of autistic and this plays into this issue in a big
way)

the neighbors have a large family and there is a boy a couple years
younger than Galen (my son) that he has tried and tried to be
friends with. the young boy has convinced Galen to give up many toys
he loved and give them away to him (the kid then broke and threw
them away), he has said mean cruel terrible things to Galen, he has
blamed acts of vandalisim on Galen, he has encouraged other friends
of his to beat Galen up using sticks, trashcan lids, pop bottles and
fists & feet. We have had to call the cops even because of this
little boy and his gang of friends who torment my son. I have photos
of his back shoulders and neck with huge bruises where they beat him
up.

yesterday when we got home from a trip Galen said to me "mom can I
make him a birthday card and take it to him?"

I was floored because although I love my sons sweet nature this is a
huge drawback sometimes. I didn't want to say NO but I surely didn't
want to say yes either!! (the last contact he had with this boy
involved calling the cops and he said at that time that he never
wanted anything to do with him again.)

Galen and I sat and talked a while, I tried to remind him of all
this boy has done and I thought he would not try to reach out to
this kid again.

I did tell him it was his choice though, like I have told him every
other time he asked me what I thought of him interacting with this
kid.

15 minutes later he came in from outside and he was crying and went
into his room- where he sat on his bed looking out the window at
the 'party' the neighbor kids were having. (Galen has never had a
birthday party although we always invited every kid he knew- no one
would ever show up so we stopped trying)
Galen had tried to give this child a "card". Galens idea of a card
was some writing on a scrap peice of paper. (I knew this would be
poorly recieved when we talked about it before)

I went in and hugged him and held him while he cryed and we talked
about how sometimes wanting to be part of a group so badly may not
be a good thing.

My Husband wants to "forbid" Galen from interacting with this boy
and I can't say that I feel it would be a bad idea, I would like
very much for Galen to come to that conclusion on his own. - I
thought he had before.-

However, because his "executive functioning" is not working like
most peoples, he continues to do things (not just this but other
things too) that have negitive conciquences for him and doesn't
learn as easily/quickly from past experiances due to the way his
brain works.
I fear for him that if I do not take some measures to insist he
stay away from these kids that he will not learn fast enough and
will end up in the hospital.

Ideas, advice, comments?
Especialy welcome from people with kids who may have the same issues
as Galen?

thanks.
Diana

drusila00

I should have added, the parents speak no english so discussing the
matter with them is out. their kids can translate but then I would
have to rely on the kids who lie and beat my child to be honest about
what they are saying. Our comunity has no bilingual cops.
>
> Ideas, advice, comments?
> Especialy welcome from people with kids who may have the same issues
> as Galen?
>
> thanks.
> Diana
>

[email protected]

Diana,

If you feel his safety is at risk (sounds like a lot of damage has been
done) I would do something. Safety is #1. How it's dealt with will delay or speed
up the healing process..

He's 11 and that is a tuff age. My son is 14 and way different than he was
at 11. Neighbors can suck the wind out of a child's (and parent)happiness
that's for sure as can friendships that change. My son (and I) have both endured
both.

I can tell you I didn't forbid friendships though I did talk with him about
it. He knew I was looking out for his heart and I knew it was important for
him to handle it. He stood his ground, a once timid boy with not many friends
is now a young man (my eyes are welling up,lol) with many friends and highly
regarded as the go to/take along guy. I watched him at the convention walk
with two nervous girls (at diff times) into teen events. Something several
years ago he would never have done even with support like the girls had.
Unschooling changed our lives in so many ways...:)

My point is he needs time, distractions and you until he finds his way.. and
he will.
Go do something special when those kids are out and he sees them. Leave
before if you know an event is taking place. Just for now while his heart heals
and his body grows.

I wish you and your son Galen a peaceful summer
((((hugs)))
Laura
Unschoolingmaine.com
***************************************************************************


<<I fear for him that if I do not take some measures to insist he
stay away from these kids that he will not learn fast enough and
will end up in the hospital.

Ideas, advice, comments?
Especialy welcome from people with kids who may have the same issues
as Galen?

thanks.
Diana>>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

'If you feel his safety is at risk (sounds like a lot of damage has been
done) I would do something. Safety is #1. How it's dealt with will
delay or speed up the healing process.."

Absolutely.
If I felt any human being was a true safety risk to my child, there's
no way in hell they'd get anywhere near them! If my child did not have
the skills to understand the danger, I'd find a respectful and kind
way to either distract/re-direct and sympathize, but NO WAY would I
let a bully that was physical with my child get near them again. Scary
stuff.

If I'd been in that situation, knowing my child did not truly
understand the danger, I think I might say "That is SO kind of you to
want to make cards, why don't we make some for our homeschool friends
(or other neighbors, or someone that was actually nice!!)
That way, the desire is honored, while still keeping him from harm.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

coolblueschool

My thirteen year old son is on the autism spectrum and we have been in
sort of the same place as you. When he was a bit younger, he was
drawn to the same type of children as your neighbors. He had the idea
that they were "cool". The were unkind, threatening, and just plain
mean to him. Usually I would take the time to try and educate about
my son and his intentions, but I felt it was better to remove him from
any contact (without him being aware, of course).
We went about becoming friends with our neighbors with grown children,
the local merchants, the mailman, etc. Usually adults, but that is
who he relates to best. During the summer, we keep different hours
than most families. Up real late playing in the sprinklers, sleeping
in til noon. That way we miss most of the kids on school break. And
we have only had good experiences with our homeschool groups,
especially the unschooling families. They have been so wonderfully
accepting of him. So much so that the label of autism has pretty much
disappeared from discussion, and he is just James, the kinda odd, but
really neat kid.
I have had parents tell me that it is not natural to only surround my
son with people who are so kind and tolerant, that he needs to learn
to deal with the "real" world (i guess they mean bullies and
meanies). I would not put my other son or myself in that position.
Why would I do that to my most vulnerable child?
Micki

drusila00

This is pretty much what I did.
I offered to work on projects with him for Swaps (ATC's and things)
I told him I would be thrilled to get card stuff out and help him
make cards for the new friends he met at camp... he did not want to
do any of it (simply did not want to be redirectred.)
what he wanted was to join the party of children next door.

We had planned to leave in a bit, when the laundry was dry (so we
had clean non stinky clothing- all his clothes reaked from being at
camp) to go someplace he finds exciting, where he would see old
(adult) friends and get to sing songs around a camp fire, but even
knowing that he still wasn't satisfied.

Even the discussion we had about how many times and what ways this
child had hurt him had no effect. I did say that I love his
sweetness and his kindness but that some relationships are like
poision and it is Okay to decide not to try and build relationships
with people who give you poision because those can hurt you.
He understood and still chose to reach out.

I think with this child I will HAVE to tell Galen he can not go
arround those kids.

I just feel like if I say to him "you can not play with the child
next door" I will be taking away his opportunity to come to that
conclusion himself, however I am afraid if I do not say that he may
get hurt so badly he needs to go to the hospital!

heh, the angst of a parrent eh?

Thanks everyone for your advice and perspectives.
Diana



--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> 'If you feel his safety is at risk (sounds like a lot of damage
has been
> done) I would do something. Safety is #1. How it's dealt with will
> delay or speed up the healing process.."
>
> Absolutely.
> If I felt any human being was a true safety risk to my child,
there's
> no way in hell they'd get anywhere near them! If my child did not
have
> the skills to understand the danger, I'd find a respectful and kind
> way to either distract/re-direct and sympathize, but NO WAY would I
> let a bully that was physical with my child get near them again.
Scary
> stuff.
>
> If I'd been in that situation, knowing my child did not truly
> understand the danger, I think I might say "That is SO kind of you
to
> want to make cards, why don't we make some for our homeschool
friends
> (or other neighbors, or someone that was actually nice!!)
> That way, the desire is honored, while still keeping him from harm.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: coolblueschool@...

I have had parents tell me that it is not natural to only surround my
son with people who are so kind and tolerant, that he needs to learn
to deal with the "real" world (i guess they mean bullies and
meanies). I would not put my other son or myself in that position.
Why would I do that to my most vulnerable child?
Micki


-=-=-=-=-=-

I agree.

Duncan and I just got back from art camp. One of the moms said the
reason she sent her child to school was for socialization. :-P~~~~*

I *KNOW* I came across as over-protective, but I was NOT going to
allow those kids to be mean and unkind to Duncan. They were 12-13, and
he's only ten. Around *here* that means that you're kinder and gentler
with the younger ones. There, he was a target (one mean girl actually
used that word---"target"---to describe Duncan!).

I know the other adults were thinking that I was sheltering him too
much as I ran interference and refused to let him be alone with all but
three of the kids. That he needs to *learn* to deal with it. Bullshit.
If I wanted him to be mean, I would have sent him to school. I don't
want him to learn that behavior.

I avoid mean people. *I* can do that. I don't think it's possible for
a child to avoid them in a setting like camp or school.

Oddly (to the other adults, I'm guessing, since they think it's
necessary to be thrown to the wolves) he was the helpful, polite,
interested, enthusiastic one! <G> He was thrilled to be there and
wanted to be friends. He even asked one girl, "Why don't you like me?"
She said, "Because you're you."

I truly ached to hurt five of the little monsters.

I built up my lung capacity instead.

Sure made us both appreciate the friends we have! <g>He has three
friends over now---he called it a friend-a-palooza! <bwg>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll




________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[email protected]

>>Oddly (to the other adults, I'm guessing, since they think it's
necessary to be thrown to the wolves) he was the helpful, polite,
interested, enthusiastic one! <G> He was thrilled to be there and
wanted to be friends. He even asked one girl, "Why don't you like me?" She said, "Because you're you.">>

Oh Kelly I remember having situations like that with Conor. My heart ached for him to find friends. But I found that his heart didn't ache nearly as much as mine did. He was and continues to be selective about who he lets into his life. If people are mean or sneaky, he notices. He keeps them at an acquaintance distance or chooses to not have them in his life at all.

I also did not "throw him to the wolves" when he was young and socially awkward. If he needed rescuing I was right there for him. We talked about what people said, how they treated each other, how they treated Conor. It was a process.

Now, at 17, Conor has a large tribe of friends. In fact, he seems to be the pivot point for a couple of very different tribes. Some are schooled. Some are homeschooled. All of them are caring and sweet. That's what Conor learned all these years. He learned to attract good people to him and not to accept bad treatment because he was desparate to fit in or have a friend.

AND...he's even got his first girlfriend. So much for him not being socialized. <g>

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kbcdlovejo@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coolblueschool@...
>
> I have had parents tell me that it is not natural to only surround my
> son with people who are so kind and tolerant, that he needs to learn
> to deal with the "real" world (i guess they mean bullies and
> meanies). I would not put my other son or myself in that position.
> Why would I do that to my most vulnerable child?
> Micki
>
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-
>
> I agree.
>
> Duncan and I just got back from art camp. One of the moms said the
> reason she sent her child to school was for socialization. :-P~~~~*
>
> I *KNOW* I came across as over-protective, but I was NOT going to
> allow those kids to be mean and unkind to Duncan. They were 12-13, and
> he's only ten. Around *here* that means that you're kinder and gentler
> with the younger ones. There, he was a target (one mean girl actually
> used that word---"target"---to describe Duncan!).
>
> I know the other adults were thinking that I was sheltering him too
> much as I ran interference and refused to let him be alone with all but
> three of the kids. That he needs to *learn* to deal with it. Bullshit.
> If I wanted him to be mean, I would have sent him to school. I don't
> want him to learn that behavior.
>
> I avoid mean people. *I* can do that. I don't think it's possible for
> a child to avoid them in a setting like camp or school.
>
> Oddly (to the other adults, I'm guessing, since they think it's
> necessary to be thrown to the wolves) he was the helpful, polite,
> interested, enthusiastic one! <G> He was thrilled to be there and
> wanted to be friends. He even asked one girl, "Why don't you like me?"
> She said, "Because you're you."
>
> I truly ached to hurt five of the little monsters.
>
> I built up my lung capacity instead.
>
> Sure made us both appreciate the friends we have! <g>He has three
> friends over now---he called it a friend-a-palooza! <bwg>
>
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
> process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
> what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
> go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
> and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>

Ren Allen

~That he needs to *learn* to deal with it. Bullshit.
If I wanted him to be mean, I would have sent him to school. I don't
want him to learn that behavior.

I avoid mean people. *I* can do that. ~


EXACTLY!!!

You know, I really don't understand how on earth an adult thinks it's
healthy and good to avoid toxic and mean people for themselves, but
that children "need to learn how to deal with the real world".
Bullshit.

Mean people suck. I believe children have a right to protection from
meanness the same way I do. Anytime, all the time. I surround myself
with people that are interesting, funny, NON-TOXIC and kind. I choose
not to hang outwith people that are mean!!

We had a discussion about this today, while driving with some friends
(waving at Diana) to Bristol Caverns. She described some of the things
Galen did to cause other children to be mean and hateful. My first
reaction was "WHAT?" because it was all so innocent and sweet.

My second thought was "hell, he'll fit in great with a bunch of
unschoolers!" because all the unschooled kids we know are just FINE
with quirkiness and differences. If a kid is nice and wants to be
friends, their interested. It's meanness they don't like. I'm GLAD
they think meanness is the "odd" behavior, not quirkiness.:)

Age, gender and quirky behaviors aren't an issue. The thing most
unschooled kids want to know is "do we have some common interests, are
you fun, are you nice?" That's about it.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: zenmomma@...

Oh Kelly I remember having situations like that with Conor. My heart
ached for
him to find friends. But I found that his heart didn't ache nearly as
much as
mine did. He was and continues to be selective about who he lets into
his life.
If people are mean or sneaky, he notices. He keeps them at an
acquaintance
distance or chooses to not have them in his life at all.

-=-=-=-

Yeah. I was livid and ready to leave the first day. He was having a
good enough time with the art and adults and the mountains. He wants to
go back next year. Go figure!

-=-==-=-

I also did not "throw him to the wolves" when he was young and socially
awkward.
If he needed rescuing I was right there for him. We talked about what
people
said, how they treated each other, how they treated Conor. It was a
process.

-=-=-=-

Duncan is usually the center of the crowd. The dynamics confused
him---being excluded and all.

We talked too. A lot. Mostly at night in bed. He didn't want to sleep
with the boys in the loft, so he bunked with me. At least I knew he was
safe there. <g> The next to the last day, they were doing some African
drumming and dancing with *his* djembe! They suddenly wanted him to
participate! <G> He flat-out told the woman in charge that he hadn't
been included all week, why was it important that they include him now.
(He knew it was the djembe! <bwg>) She had to apologize BIG, but she
was respectful and gave him some say, so he joined back in.

-=-=-=-=-

Now, at 17, Conor has a large tribe of friends. In fact, he seems to be
the
pivot point for a couple of very different tribes. Some are schooled.
Some are
homeschooled. All of them are caring and sweet. That's what Conor
learned all
these years. He learned to attract good people to him and not to accept
bad
treatment because he was desparate to fit in or have a friend.

-=-=-=-

That's what I want for both my boys. I think we have that already.
They're not out to have a LOT of friends---just the *good*ones! <g>
It's nice to look right now at the four that are here (they all spent
last night---none are looking homesick! <G> I guess they'll be here
again tonight.) playing Spiderman Monopoly. They've been in & out of
the pool all day. I think they're a little water-logged! But it's nice
to know they're all here because they *want* to be and because they all
*like* each other!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities
of what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible.
They go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll


________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.