strategies regarding food....(long)
Tina Bragdon
HI, I am a lurker here who is the unschooling mom of a just turned
6yr old girl and just turned 3 yr old boy. I am trying to relax more
in the area of food. I grew up in a contolling clean your plate and
stay at the table kind of household.
So far, I have been able to relax in regards that the kids don't have
to finish everything on their plates, and they best know if they are
hungry or not. (at least I think I have but..) We do have "mealtimes"
(for the adults sake) and fairly regular times a snack is offered but
they are free to take it or leave it, although they do tend to come
to the table with us when we eat. I am struggling with some things
though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later. The 3 yr old I can
understand...he was like this as a younger toddler, and so was the 6
yr old, but even she still does this alot of the time and it is
agitating me, especially when people like MIL imply that if I would
have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
issues now. I see how their little cousins stay at the table but I
think it is because of coercion and threats so that is not acceptable
to me. Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have a
truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with any
food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give him
mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him) so
there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is me
feeding him. I do leave a plate on his little craft table and that
at times helps. Anyone else go through this? Part of me wants to
just follow his lead and trust he is doing this for a reason and part
of me thinks it is silly of me to do so.
I have days it is ok and days it bugs the heck out of me, mostly
because of those silly voices in my head and trying to find balance
between needing to provide food for them as they can't do alot
themselves and knowing more about nutrition than they vs letting them
have some autonomy and the right to satisfying their own hunger. I am
veeerrrrry slowly coming to terms with well maybe they aren't as
hungry as I thought when they don't stay at the table, but struggle
with it as this behaviour is not the "norm" in our circle of
friends. The 6 yr old is pretty good at other people's houses as she
understands that other people have different "rules" but the kids
both struggle and I grit my teeth with that stupid what-will-others-
think voice in my head or find myself not letting them eat before
going over to another's house so they will be hungry enought to stay
at the table for a while. As I said I am trying to find a balance and
how to handle this and not to have unrealistic expectations of them.
For lack of a better term they are both very impulsive and very
easily distracted compared to other kids I know, especially my girl.
I am sure she would be labled ADD/ with certain highly sensitive
aspects in a school setting...that's why we unschool. She has been
starting to go into the fridge to get herself a yoghurt or something
if she is hungry and I let her but then she won't eat at supper and
then her whole day has been eating 99% dairy products or fruit and
nothing else or something despite having other things readily
available...or I will give her a few pieces of candy before supper if
she asks thinking she has every right to just like I would and
struggle in my own mind when I see her eat 2 bites the rest of the
evening because she is not hungry now. She is tiny for her age so
that adds to my worries. I have even gotten so upset that I have told
her that no she can't have any candy because she has proven to me
that she can't eat a decent meal afterwards (hanging my head in
shame) and then felt bad, that is how much the pendulum in my mind
swings in this right now
Any strategies anyone, for calming that voice that tells me they will
never stay at the table or eat a balanced diet? Basically my
strategy lately has been making 3 fairly regular meals in the day
plus a tray of snacky type foods in the fridge like cut up fruit,
veggies, muffins, crackers and cheese, etc. But when they just eat a
few nibbles off this CONSTANTLY during the day, and not anything else
it bothers me, as there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! Or another voice which
thinks that they will be adults and still eat this way and not eat
when over for company or something....silly I know!
Anyone who is going through something simular, please help! I am
trying to relax more in this area but obviously have a lot to let go
of and have not relaxed as much as I thought! Tina
6yr old girl and just turned 3 yr old boy. I am trying to relax more
in the area of food. I grew up in a contolling clean your plate and
stay at the table kind of household.
So far, I have been able to relax in regards that the kids don't have
to finish everything on their plates, and they best know if they are
hungry or not. (at least I think I have but..) We do have "mealtimes"
(for the adults sake) and fairly regular times a snack is offered but
they are free to take it or leave it, although they do tend to come
to the table with us when we eat. I am struggling with some things
though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later. The 3 yr old I can
understand...he was like this as a younger toddler, and so was the 6
yr old, but even she still does this alot of the time and it is
agitating me, especially when people like MIL imply that if I would
have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
issues now. I see how their little cousins stay at the table but I
think it is because of coercion and threats so that is not acceptable
to me. Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have a
truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with any
food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give him
mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him) so
there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is me
feeding him. I do leave a plate on his little craft table and that
at times helps. Anyone else go through this? Part of me wants to
just follow his lead and trust he is doing this for a reason and part
of me thinks it is silly of me to do so.
I have days it is ok and days it bugs the heck out of me, mostly
because of those silly voices in my head and trying to find balance
between needing to provide food for them as they can't do alot
themselves and knowing more about nutrition than they vs letting them
have some autonomy and the right to satisfying their own hunger. I am
veeerrrrry slowly coming to terms with well maybe they aren't as
hungry as I thought when they don't stay at the table, but struggle
with it as this behaviour is not the "norm" in our circle of
friends. The 6 yr old is pretty good at other people's houses as she
understands that other people have different "rules" but the kids
both struggle and I grit my teeth with that stupid what-will-others-
think voice in my head or find myself not letting them eat before
going over to another's house so they will be hungry enought to stay
at the table for a while. As I said I am trying to find a balance and
how to handle this and not to have unrealistic expectations of them.
For lack of a better term they are both very impulsive and very
easily distracted compared to other kids I know, especially my girl.
I am sure she would be labled ADD/ with certain highly sensitive
aspects in a school setting...that's why we unschool. She has been
starting to go into the fridge to get herself a yoghurt or something
if she is hungry and I let her but then she won't eat at supper and
then her whole day has been eating 99% dairy products or fruit and
nothing else or something despite having other things readily
available...or I will give her a few pieces of candy before supper if
she asks thinking she has every right to just like I would and
struggle in my own mind when I see her eat 2 bites the rest of the
evening because she is not hungry now. She is tiny for her age so
that adds to my worries. I have even gotten so upset that I have told
her that no she can't have any candy because she has proven to me
that she can't eat a decent meal afterwards (hanging my head in
shame) and then felt bad, that is how much the pendulum in my mind
swings in this right now
Any strategies anyone, for calming that voice that tells me they will
never stay at the table or eat a balanced diet? Basically my
strategy lately has been making 3 fairly regular meals in the day
plus a tray of snacky type foods in the fridge like cut up fruit,
veggies, muffins, crackers and cheese, etc. But when they just eat a
few nibbles off this CONSTANTLY during the day, and not anything else
it bothers me, as there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! Or another voice which
thinks that they will be adults and still eat this way and not eat
when over for company or something....silly I know!
Anyone who is going through something simular, please help! I am
trying to relax more in this area but obviously have a lot to let go
of and have not relaxed as much as I thought! Tina
Vijay Owens
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Tina Bragdon wrote:
about it. Not necessarily consciously, mind you, but just, "Hey, can I
really take charge of my own eating? Even if that means taking one bite
and then going to play and then coming back for another bite?" It might
settle once some time has passed and they are more used to being in
control of their own feeding.
say.
it myself!" stage. I'm guessing it's just a phase.
fudgesicles, etc. Can a person really survive on 90% dairy products?
LOL Try to look at her eating over the course of a week or a month, not
just one day. My DD has patterns for sure. She'll snack for a few days
then have one really astoundingly big meal. Then it's back to snacking
again. She'll ask for lots of eggs sometimes. Other times just fruit
and dry cereal.
Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
because she is small for her age too (30th percentile for height and
15th for weight) but she is very healthy. I'd rather she had an odd
diet and be a little lean than be taught to ignore the feelings of
hunger and satiety and be overweight. She knows what she needs. I just
keep telling myself that. Whatever foods she asks for I either give
them to her or add them to the list for the next time we go to the
store.
One time I bought a big bag of twizzlers at her request. She kept
asking for more and more. I kept doling them out but wondering, wow,
how is she eating so many? I was finding twizzlers around the house for
days. She wasn't eating them, but she was testing me to see if she
could really have as many as she wanted. LOL
things on it, fruit, veggies, dip, crackers, cheese, nuts, etc. and let
them have at it. Try to stifle the voices that tell you that a meal
must be hot, and eaten at a table with a fork. Listen to yourself, not
anybody else. YOU are the best expert on your kids. Are they happy?
Healthy? Bright eyed and full of energy? Then what's the problem?
a man who gave a talk at last year's LLL conference in D.C. He
describes himself as a father of 5 and a pediatrician in his spare
time, lol. He wrote a book about toddler nutrition that is very
comforting for those of us who have kids who seem to subsist on air
alone sometimes. It's normal. It's healthy. They are small, their
tummies only hold so much. Sometimes they are growing, sometimes they
are in a holding pattern before the next growth spurt. The worst thing
you can do is make it a huge power struggle with you trying to get them
to eat, and them resisting.
You're on the right track! Just try to stick your fingers in your ears
and say "LALALALA" so those voices will be drowned out.
HTH,
-Vijay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am struggling with some thingsPart of this might be them testing you to see if you've really relaxed
> though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
> more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
> 1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later.
about it. Not necessarily consciously, mind you, but just, "Hey, can I
really take charge of my own eating? Even if that means taking one bite
and then going to play and then coming back for another bite?" It might
settle once some time has passed and they are more used to being in
control of their own feeding.
> The 3 yr old I canAh, mothers in law. Try to listen to your heart, and not what others
> understand...he was like this as a younger toddler, and so was the 6
> yr old, but even she still does this alot of the time and it is
> agitating me, especially when people like MIL imply that if I would
> have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
> at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
> issues now.
say.
> I see how their little cousins stay at the table but IHm. Can't really help with this one. My 3 y.o. is in a very firm, "Do
> think it is because of coercion and threats so that is not acceptable
> to me. Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have a
> truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
> refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with any
> food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give him
> mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him) so
> there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is me
> feeding him. I do leave a plate on his little craft table and that
> at times helps. Anyone else go through this? Part of me wants to
> just follow his lead and trust he is doing this for a reason and part
> of me thinks it is silly of me to do so.
it myself!" stage. I'm guessing it's just a phase.
>I hear you. Sometimes my 3 y.o. only seems to want cheese, yogurt,
> She is tiny for her age so
> that adds to my worries. I have even gotten so upset that I have told
> her that no she can't have any candy because she has proven to me
> that she can't eat a decent meal afterwards (hanging my head in
> shame) and then felt bad, that is how much the pendulum in my mind
> swings in this right now
fudgesicles, etc. Can a person really survive on 90% dairy products?
LOL Try to look at her eating over the course of a week or a month, not
just one day. My DD has patterns for sure. She'll snack for a few days
then have one really astoundingly big meal. Then it's back to snacking
again. She'll ask for lots of eggs sometimes. Other times just fruit
and dry cereal.
Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
because she is small for her age too (30th percentile for height and
15th for weight) but she is very healthy. I'd rather she had an odd
diet and be a little lean than be taught to ignore the feelings of
hunger and satiety and be overweight. She knows what she needs. I just
keep telling myself that. Whatever foods she asks for I either give
them to her or add them to the list for the next time we go to the
store.
One time I bought a big bag of twizzlers at her request. She kept
asking for more and more. I kept doling them out but wondering, wow,
how is she eating so many? I was finding twizzlers around the house for
days. She wasn't eating them, but she was testing me to see if she
could really have as many as she wanted. LOL
>The snack tray is a great idea. Just keep putting a mix of different
> Any strategies anyone, for calming that voice that tells me they will
> never stay at the table or eat a balanced diet? Basically my
> strategy lately has been making 3 fairly regular meals in the day
> plus a tray of snacky type foods in the fridge like cut up fruit,
> veggies, muffins, crackers and cheese, etc. But when they just eat a
> few nibbles off this CONSTANTLY during the day, and not anything else
> it bothers me, as there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
> worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! Or another voice which
> thinks that they will be adults and still eat this way and not eat
> when over for company or something....silly I know!
things on it, fruit, veggies, dip, crackers, cheese, nuts, etc. and let
them have at it. Try to stifle the voices that tell you that a meal
must be hot, and eaten at a table with a fork. Listen to yourself, not
anybody else. YOU are the best expert on your kids. Are they happy?
Healthy? Bright eyed and full of energy? Then what's the problem?
>There is a wonderful book (does anyone know the name of it?) written by
> Anyone who is going through something simular, please help! I am
> trying to relax more in this area but obviously have a lot to let go
> of and have not relaxed as much as I thought! Tina
a man who gave a talk at last year's LLL conference in D.C. He
describes himself as a father of 5 and a pediatrician in his spare
time, lol. He wrote a book about toddler nutrition that is very
comforting for those of us who have kids who seem to subsist on air
alone sometimes. It's normal. It's healthy. They are small, their
tummies only hold so much. Sometimes they are growing, sometimes they
are in a holding pattern before the next growth spurt. The worst thing
you can do is make it a huge power struggle with you trying to get them
to eat, and them resisting.
You're on the right track! Just try to stick your fingers in your ears
and say "LALALALA" so those voices will be drowned out.
HTH,
-Vijay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
Yes, when you think about it, they don't need much. I do know full
grown adults who live on ice cream. And when you think about it,
dairy has protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals...it's probably
healthier than people who eat fast food burgers every day. ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
grown adults who live on ice cream. And when you think about it,
dairy has protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals...it's probably
healthier than people who eat fast food burgers every day. ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jul 4, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Vijay Owens wrote:
>
>
> I hear you. Sometimes my 3 y.o. only seems to want cheese, yogurt,
> fudgesicles, etc. Can a person really survive on 90% dairy products?
> LOL Try to look at her eating over the course of a week or a month,
> not
> just one day. My DD has patterns for sure. She'll snack for a few days
> then have one really astoundingly big meal. Then it's back to snacking
> again. She'll ask for lots of eggs sometimes. Other times just fruit
> and dry cereal.
>
> Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
> because she is small for her age too (30th percentile for height and
> 15th for weight) but she is very healthy. I'd rather she had an odd
> diet and be a little lean than be taught to ignore the feelings of
> hunger and satiety and be overweight. She knows what she needs. I just
> keep telling myself that. Whatever foods she asks for I either give
> them to her or add them to the list for the next time we go to the
> store.
>
>
> .
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amy Joan
But what about the kid who freely chooses sweets and has her own money and
unschooling freedom to buy the candy stash for herself????
I keep the healthier foods available but candy is usually my daughters
first food choice.
Your thoughts??
Amy
unschooling freedom to buy the candy stash for herself????
I keep the healthier foods available but candy is usually my daughters
first food choice.
Your thoughts??
Amy
On 7/4/06, Melissa <autismhelp@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, when you think about it, they don't need much. I do know full
> grown adults who live on ice cream. And when you think about it,
> dairy has protein, carbs, vitamins, minerals...it's probably
> healthier than people who eat fast food burgers every day. ;-)
> Melissa
> Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
> (2), and Avari Rose
>
> share our lives at
> http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
>
>
>
> On Jul 4, 2006, at 12:26 PM, Vijay Owens wrote:
> >
> >
> > I hear you. Sometimes my 3 y.o. only seems to want cheese, yogurt,
> > fudgesicles, etc. Can a person really survive on 90% dairy products?
> > LOL Try to look at her eating over the course of a week or a month,
> > not
> > just one day. My DD has patterns for sure. She'll snack for a few days
> > then have one really astoundingly big meal. Then it's back to snacking
> > again. She'll ask for lots of eggs sometimes. Other times just fruit
> > and dry cereal.
> >
> > Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
> > because she is small for her age too (30th percentile for height and
> > 15th for weight) but she is very healthy. I'd rather she had an odd
> > diet and be a little lean than be taught to ignore the feelings of
> > hunger and satiety and be overweight. She knows what she needs. I just
> > keep telling myself that. Whatever foods she asks for I either give
> > them to her or add them to the list for the next time we go to the
> > store.
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
I say let them go for it! Once they realize it's not a power
struggle, the sweets lose some of their appeal. Once it loses it's
appeal from power, they really choose it when they want it, not just
because they are scared it will disappear. It's hard to trust, but
you really must, there is no long term danger from letting go! I will
point out a short term one. My oldest one, who faced the most
restrictions, when he was five at halloween, was allowed to eat as
much candy as he wanted, as well as stay up late for the first time.
He became so ill, ugh, he threw up chocolate and caramel several
times over, he had gorged himself, not even chewing because he was so
worried we'd change our minds.
I have seen this change over the years with my kids...I was very
strict with my first two, and then as they wore me down (Okay, joking
here...as I realized it wasn't as important as I thought it
was..which was way before I started unschooling) I realized that my
younger didn't hoard and crave the sweets like the older ones. The
younger will buy a bunch of candy, but then it'll sit for weeks in
the closet. Just today Emily and I were looking for her red skirt,
and while going through all the piles of clothes I would find candy
straws "Oh...I forgot about those!" and then reece's cups "That's
where they were!", and the gum "I was saving that for another time",
and the skittles "I know Elizabeth likes those, so I was saving them
for her". It's funny. Josh never forgets a piece of candy, he knows
where EVERY snack food is stored, how much is in there, and he tracks
how much each person gets and decides if it's fair or not. He's
obviously still deschooling.
We have a divided dish from tupperware that is out on our counter
every day. It has six types of snacks in it. I keep it loaded
throughout the day, and more times than not, they will come up and
request that carrot sticks be filled out, or the ranch, or the
raisons or cheesecubes. THe first few weeks it WAS the chocolate
chips, or the skittles that disappeared over and over, but it has
changed.
I feel crummy saying all this, tonight I did have to tell Josh no on
some cupcakes. Only because there were only 12 to begin with at my
aunt's party, and he ate two of them, without thinking about the
twenty OTHER people who might want one. So he was a little angry with
me...was not seeing my reasoning, even when I pointed out the other
snacks, one of those great american cookie cakes with two inches of
icing on top (seriously, one piece made me ill, of course, it might
have been the beer I drank right before burp!) and a chocolate fudge
cake thing. He is a little rigid with his thinking though, so it
takes some work.
Hopes this rambling helps some.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
struggle, the sweets lose some of their appeal. Once it loses it's
appeal from power, they really choose it when they want it, not just
because they are scared it will disappear. It's hard to trust, but
you really must, there is no long term danger from letting go! I will
point out a short term one. My oldest one, who faced the most
restrictions, when he was five at halloween, was allowed to eat as
much candy as he wanted, as well as stay up late for the first time.
He became so ill, ugh, he threw up chocolate and caramel several
times over, he had gorged himself, not even chewing because he was so
worried we'd change our minds.
I have seen this change over the years with my kids...I was very
strict with my first two, and then as they wore me down (Okay, joking
here...as I realized it wasn't as important as I thought it
was..which was way before I started unschooling) I realized that my
younger didn't hoard and crave the sweets like the older ones. The
younger will buy a bunch of candy, but then it'll sit for weeks in
the closet. Just today Emily and I were looking for her red skirt,
and while going through all the piles of clothes I would find candy
straws "Oh...I forgot about those!" and then reece's cups "That's
where they were!", and the gum "I was saving that for another time",
and the skittles "I know Elizabeth likes those, so I was saving them
for her". It's funny. Josh never forgets a piece of candy, he knows
where EVERY snack food is stored, how much is in there, and he tracks
how much each person gets and decides if it's fair or not. He's
obviously still deschooling.
We have a divided dish from tupperware that is out on our counter
every day. It has six types of snacks in it. I keep it loaded
throughout the day, and more times than not, they will come up and
request that carrot sticks be filled out, or the ranch, or the
raisons or cheesecubes. THe first few weeks it WAS the chocolate
chips, or the skittles that disappeared over and over, but it has
changed.
I feel crummy saying all this, tonight I did have to tell Josh no on
some cupcakes. Only because there were only 12 to begin with at my
aunt's party, and he ate two of them, without thinking about the
twenty OTHER people who might want one. So he was a little angry with
me...was not seeing my reasoning, even when I pointed out the other
snacks, one of those great american cookie cakes with two inches of
icing on top (seriously, one piece made me ill, of course, it might
have been the beer I drank right before burp!) and a chocolate fudge
cake thing. He is a little rigid with his thinking though, so it
takes some work.
Hopes this rambling helps some.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:06 PM, Amy Joan wrote:
> But what about the kid who freely chooses sweets and has her own
> money and
> unschooling freedom to buy the candy stash for herself????
>
> I keep the healthier foods available but candy is usually my daughters
> first food choice.
> Your thoughts??
>
> .
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/2006 2:00:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
autismhelp@... writes:
Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
My suggestion is to avoid the growth charts. They're meaningless and based
on a lot of heavy kids who swing the scale to the large end. My first child
was off the charts and weighed 25 pounds when she was 6 months old being
exclusively breastfed. She is 9 now and weighs 48 pounds. I have never even seen
where the pediatrician puts my 2 year old on the chart because there is no
reason to know how she compares to the masses.
You said it best when you wrote "she is very healthy" so it shouldn't matter
how she compares to others.
Warmly,
Robin, wishing my Mom just let me be about food so I wouldn't be forcing
myself to get off this computer and go do laps.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
autismhelp@... writes:
Some days she hardly seems to eat anything at all, which is hard,
> because she is small for her age too (30th percentile for height and~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 15th for weight) but she is very healthy.
My suggestion is to avoid the growth charts. They're meaningless and based
on a lot of heavy kids who swing the scale to the large end. My first child
was off the charts and weighed 25 pounds when she was 6 months old being
exclusively breastfed. She is 9 now and weighs 48 pounds. I have never even seen
where the pediatrician puts my 2 year old on the chart because there is no
reason to know how she compares to the masses.
You said it best when you wrote "she is very healthy" so it shouldn't matter
how she compares to others.
Warmly,
Robin, wishing my Mom just let me be about food so I wouldn't be forcing
myself to get off this computer and go do laps.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 7/4/06, Tina Bragdon <jamesandtina942@...> wrote:
problems not with your child but with the voices in your head.
irrelevant to unschooling families. Children who are labelled
"ADD/ADHD" are simply active, inquisitive, engaging, or BORED. I
can't tell you the number of children that parents have labelled ADD
that I find to be normal kids. But because they don't sit still in a
classroom, finish an assignment, and are constantly flitting from one
activity to another they are called "ADD."
She has been
ruining your appetite. If 2 little pieces of candy filled her up,
consider what would have happened had she eaten a full meal. And if
she is eating dairy and fruit, it sounds like she is getting a good
source of the majority of her nutritional needs in ways other than
what the American diet deems "suitable." I know many vegetarians who
live off dairy and fruit (and tea LOL!)
eating 3 large meals a day. It's easier on your blood sugar levels
and keeps your energy levels most constant than having a constant
roller coaster of energy.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
> The 3 yr old I canThey are only issues if you make them issues. :) You are having
> understand...he was like this as a younger toddler, and so was the 6
> yr old, but even she still does this alot of the time and it is
> agitating me, especially when people like MIL imply that if I would
> have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
> at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
> issues now.
problems not with your child but with the voices in your head.
> Part of me wants toWhat is silly about meeting your child's needs and building trust?
> just follow his lead and trust he is doing this for a reason and part
> of me thinks it is silly of me to do so.
> For lack of a better term they are both very impulsive and veryThose terms were created to further divide people. They are mostly
> easily distracted compared to other kids I know, especially my girl.
> I am sure she would be labled ADD/ with certain highly sensitive
> aspects in a school setting...that's why we unschool.
irrelevant to unschooling families. Children who are labelled
"ADD/ADHD" are simply active, inquisitive, engaging, or BORED. I
can't tell you the number of children that parents have labelled ADD
that I find to be normal kids. But because they don't sit still in a
classroom, finish an assignment, and are constantly flitting from one
activity to another they are called "ADD."
She has been
> starting to go into the fridge to get herself a yoghurt or somethingRen said this to me once and I remind myself of it often. Eating IS
> if she is hungry and I let her but then she won't eat at supper and
> then her whole day has been eating 99% dairy products or fruit and
> nothing else or something despite having other things readily
> available...or I will give her a few pieces of candy before supper if
> she asks thinking she has every right to just like I would and
> struggle in my own mind when I see her eat 2 bites the rest of the
> evening because she is not hungry now.
ruining your appetite. If 2 little pieces of candy filled her up,
consider what would have happened had she eaten a full meal. And if
she is eating dairy and fruit, it sounds like she is getting a good
source of the majority of her nutritional needs in ways other than
what the American diet deems "suitable." I know many vegetarians who
live off dairy and fruit (and tea LOL!)
> But when they just eat aActually eating small nibbles through the day is much healthier than
> few nibbles off this CONSTANTLY during the day, and not anything else
> it bothers me, as there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
> worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it!
eating 3 large meals a day. It's easier on your blood sugar levels
and keeps your energy levels most constant than having a constant
roller coaster of energy.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Deb Lewis
***I am struggling with some things
though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later. ***
They are really little and this is normal. Normal when no one is forcing
them to stay at the table, anyway.<g> Maybe it would help you to think
about why you like to have a mealtime. You probably like one because
the convenience of making one meal to feed everyone at the same time
appeals to you. But since your kids were born you've been making
special meals for them (nursing or bottle) so it's not really like
"mealtime" is a solidly established tradition for your kids. It may
become a nice family tradition, if that's what you hope for, but I don't
think it would if your kids were forced to stay at the table. I don't
think they'd feel good about that or want to be there.
Another reason you might like mealtimes is so the family can be together
in one place and enjoy each other. But how much enjoyment would there
be if you were pressing your kids to stay at the table and they were
resisting? I think you'd find that stressful and they would too and I
think the meal and being together wouldn't be much fun.
***or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later.***
Maybe there are certain foods you could leave out on the table for them
to come back to. Maybe they haven't really left when you think they have
and they intend to come back but the food has been taken away by then.
You could clear away your dishes and the foods you know your kids aren't
much interested in and you could leave the rest of the food longer in
case they return.
***MIL imply that if I would
have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
issues now. ***
I don't see these as "issues" but as really normal kid behaviors and it
comes back to what kind of atmosphere you want at your table. Your
reality is this: Your kids are little and don't have a the feelings
about mealtime that you have. You can try to nurture a warm feeling
about mealtime but you won't do that by making your kids sit down and
stay there. Most of what happens at mealtime isn't fun for kids.
Mostly they're supposed to sit and eat and adults talk about stuff that
doesn't mean anything to kids. How long would *you* stay at a party if
you weren't supposed to move and the conversation was dead boring? <g>
You will only establish joy at mealtime by making mealtime a happy time
for your kids. And, the purpose of food is to nourish. Nourishment
comes in all kinds of ways, at a sit down meal or on the go and it can be
made unpleasant or it can be warm and loving. You get to choose which it
will be for your kids. Food forced on a kid at a sit down meal, when
the kid doesn't want to be there is not better or more nourishing than
food eaten on the go by a happy kid. I'll bet the happy kid scenario is
a healthier scenario too, since stress causes all kinds of problems
including indigestion.
I'm sorry your MIL is adding pressure to a situation you're already
unsure of. Think about what your goals are. If your goals are happy
kids and stress free nourishment of those kids then you can let go of
your MIL's expectation of what *your* family's meal time should look
like. You can say, "They're happy and they're eating and that's what's
important," and then ignore her. <g> (or beat her to death with a
zucchini.)
***Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have a
truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with any
food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give him
mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him) so
there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is me
feeding him.***
I think this is sweet. Dylan and I used to play a game. I'd hold onto
the food and he'd be playing and then I'd say "baby bird, come to mamma
bird..." and he'd come over, flapping and chirping like a little bird,
his mouth open, and I'd poke something into him. <g> Then he'd go off
to play some more.
Your little guy is enjoying being your baby. Isn't that wonderful!? He
won't be little forever. He won't be a ten year old who wants you to
feed him, I promise.<g> Enjoy him and your time as mamma bird.
***The 6 yr old is pretty good at other people's houses as she
understands that other people have different "rules" but the kids
both struggle and I grit my teeth with that stupid what-will-others-
think voice in my head or find myself not letting them eat before
going over to another's house so they will be hungry enough to stay
at the table for a while. ***
This probably doesn't bug your friends like you think it does. If your
friends have kids then they know what kids are like. But if it's really
a problem for you right now then instead of going over to your friend's
house, have them come to yours. No one is going to insist your kids sit
at the table in your house. ; ) And offer your support to your kids
when they get up and leave the table. You can say "Are you going to go
play for awhile? I'll guard your food while your gone!" Your friends
will be much less likely to be disapproving if they know you approve.
I know it's hard. Your kids are very little. Try to think about what is
really important. Is it most important to you to meet the expectations
of your friends and MIL or is it most important to have a joyful
relationship with your kids? I think we all know the answer. <g>
***they are both very impulsive and very
easily distracted compared to other kids I know, especially my girl.***
Impulsive and distracted are pretty negative words in our society.
Maybe your daughter is energetic and curious! The way we see our kids
affects the way our children think about themselves. Give her and
yourself more positive words and ideas.
***I am sure she would be labled ADD/ with certain highly sensitive
aspects ***
Forget about that. It absolutely doesn't matter. Your daughter is who
she is and needs exactly what she needs just like everyone else on the
planet.
***She has been
starting to go into the fridge to get herself a yoghurt or something
if she is hungry and I let her but then she won't eat at supper and
then her whole day has been eating 99% dairy products or fruit and
nothing else or something despite having other things readily
available...***
It's normal for kids to eat certain kinds of foods for a period of time.
They move on. It will not hurt her to eat what she's enjoying right now.
As long as she has other food choices available to her you can trust
she's getting what she needs.
***or I will give her a few pieces of candy before supper if
she asks thinking she has every right to just like I would and
struggle in my own mind when I see her eat 2 bites the rest of the
evening because she is not hungry now.***
It's really ok for people to eat when they're hungry and skip a meal if
they're not. Food is for eating. Candy is food. If your daughter ate
candy and skipped meals enough that it made her feel unwell she would
come to understand the connection between a wider variety of foods and a
feeling of wellness.
You said she has food available at all times, all kinds of things she can
choose from. So you know if she chooses candy it's because she really
wants candy. You can relax knowing she will get what she needs, even if
she skips a meal and has candy instead.
***there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! ***
That mom voice gets quieter and disappears entirely when you make your
first thoughts consideration for what your kids want and need to be happy
an not a worry over what others will think of you.
Aside from it being your responsibility to provide food for your kids,
It can also a loving gift you give them. Not the food itself but the
willingness to nourish them - in all ways -with food and with your love
and your understanding and delight in their ways of being right now and
always.
***I am
trying to relax more in this area but obviously have a lot to let go
of and have not relaxed as much as I thought! ***
It's hard! You have years and years of a certain kind of programming
and you're trying to rewire your brain all at once. You *can* do it.
It's the best thing for your kids and for you. Probably most of the
people on this list have gone through or are going through some of the
same things. It's gets easier and better every day.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later. ***
They are really little and this is normal. Normal when no one is forcing
them to stay at the table, anyway.<g> Maybe it would help you to think
about why you like to have a mealtime. You probably like one because
the convenience of making one meal to feed everyone at the same time
appeals to you. But since your kids were born you've been making
special meals for them (nursing or bottle) so it's not really like
"mealtime" is a solidly established tradition for your kids. It may
become a nice family tradition, if that's what you hope for, but I don't
think it would if your kids were forced to stay at the table. I don't
think they'd feel good about that or want to be there.
Another reason you might like mealtimes is so the family can be together
in one place and enjoy each other. But how much enjoyment would there
be if you were pressing your kids to stay at the table and they were
resisting? I think you'd find that stressful and they would too and I
think the meal and being together wouldn't be much fun.
***or just plain old leave after about a
1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later.***
Maybe there are certain foods you could leave out on the table for them
to come back to. Maybe they haven't really left when you think they have
and they intend to come back but the food has been taken away by then.
You could clear away your dishes and the foods you know your kids aren't
much interested in and you could leave the rest of the food longer in
case they return.
***MIL imply that if I would
have had the expectation in the first place all along that they STAY
at the table right from the beginning then we would not have these
issues now. ***
I don't see these as "issues" but as really normal kid behaviors and it
comes back to what kind of atmosphere you want at your table. Your
reality is this: Your kids are little and don't have a the feelings
about mealtime that you have. You can try to nurture a warm feeling
about mealtime but you won't do that by making your kids sit down and
stay there. Most of what happens at mealtime isn't fun for kids.
Mostly they're supposed to sit and eat and adults talk about stuff that
doesn't mean anything to kids. How long would *you* stay at a party if
you weren't supposed to move and the conversation was dead boring? <g>
You will only establish joy at mealtime by making mealtime a happy time
for your kids. And, the purpose of food is to nourish. Nourishment
comes in all kinds of ways, at a sit down meal or on the go and it can be
made unpleasant or it can be warm and loving. You get to choose which it
will be for your kids. Food forced on a kid at a sit down meal, when
the kid doesn't want to be there is not better or more nourishing than
food eaten on the go by a happy kid. I'll bet the happy kid scenario is
a healthier scenario too, since stress causes all kinds of problems
including indigestion.
I'm sorry your MIL is adding pressure to a situation you're already
unsure of. Think about what your goals are. If your goals are happy
kids and stress free nourishment of those kids then you can let go of
your MIL's expectation of what *your* family's meal time should look
like. You can say, "They're happy and they're eating and that's what's
important," and then ignore her. <g> (or beat her to death with a
zucchini.)
***Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have a
truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with any
food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give him
mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him) so
there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is me
feeding him.***
I think this is sweet. Dylan and I used to play a game. I'd hold onto
the food and he'd be playing and then I'd say "baby bird, come to mamma
bird..." and he'd come over, flapping and chirping like a little bird,
his mouth open, and I'd poke something into him. <g> Then he'd go off
to play some more.
Your little guy is enjoying being your baby. Isn't that wonderful!? He
won't be little forever. He won't be a ten year old who wants you to
feed him, I promise.<g> Enjoy him and your time as mamma bird.
***The 6 yr old is pretty good at other people's houses as she
understands that other people have different "rules" but the kids
both struggle and I grit my teeth with that stupid what-will-others-
think voice in my head or find myself not letting them eat before
going over to another's house so they will be hungry enough to stay
at the table for a while. ***
This probably doesn't bug your friends like you think it does. If your
friends have kids then they know what kids are like. But if it's really
a problem for you right now then instead of going over to your friend's
house, have them come to yours. No one is going to insist your kids sit
at the table in your house. ; ) And offer your support to your kids
when they get up and leave the table. You can say "Are you going to go
play for awhile? I'll guard your food while your gone!" Your friends
will be much less likely to be disapproving if they know you approve.
I know it's hard. Your kids are very little. Try to think about what is
really important. Is it most important to you to meet the expectations
of your friends and MIL or is it most important to have a joyful
relationship with your kids? I think we all know the answer. <g>
***they are both very impulsive and very
easily distracted compared to other kids I know, especially my girl.***
Impulsive and distracted are pretty negative words in our society.
Maybe your daughter is energetic and curious! The way we see our kids
affects the way our children think about themselves. Give her and
yourself more positive words and ideas.
***I am sure she would be labled ADD/ with certain highly sensitive
aspects ***
Forget about that. It absolutely doesn't matter. Your daughter is who
she is and needs exactly what she needs just like everyone else on the
planet.
***She has been
starting to go into the fridge to get herself a yoghurt or something
if she is hungry and I let her but then she won't eat at supper and
then her whole day has been eating 99% dairy products or fruit and
nothing else or something despite having other things readily
available...***
It's normal for kids to eat certain kinds of foods for a period of time.
They move on. It will not hurt her to eat what she's enjoying right now.
As long as she has other food choices available to her you can trust
she's getting what she needs.
***or I will give her a few pieces of candy before supper if
she asks thinking she has every right to just like I would and
struggle in my own mind when I see her eat 2 bites the rest of the
evening because she is not hungry now.***
It's really ok for people to eat when they're hungry and skip a meal if
they're not. Food is for eating. Candy is food. If your daughter ate
candy and skipped meals enough that it made her feel unwell she would
come to understand the connection between a wider variety of foods and a
feeling of wellness.
You said she has food available at all times, all kinds of things she can
choose from. So you know if she chooses candy it's because she really
wants candy. You can relax knowing she will get what she needs, even if
she skips a meal and has candy instead.
***there is my mom in my head with the thoughts of I
worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! ***
That mom voice gets quieter and disappears entirely when you make your
first thoughts consideration for what your kids want and need to be happy
an not a worry over what others will think of you.
Aside from it being your responsibility to provide food for your kids,
It can also a loving gift you give them. Not the food itself but the
willingness to nourish them - in all ways -with food and with your love
and your understanding and delight in their ways of being right now and
always.
***I am
trying to relax more in this area but obviously have a lot to let go
of and have not relaxed as much as I thought! ***
It's hard! You have years and years of a certain kind of programming
and you're trying to rewire your brain all at once. You *can* do it.
It's the best thing for your kids and for you. Probably most of the
people on this list have gone through or are going through some of the
same things. It's gets easier and better every day.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rebecca DeLong
On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Tina Bragdon wrote:
I've come to realize, he knows if he's hungry or not, sometimes he just wants a few bites and he's done, sometimes he wants seconds, or thirds, sometimes he takes one bite and saves the rest for later, and sometimes it takes him an hour or more to eat, because he so busy.
I'm letting my irritation go, it wasn't helping us at all. It's him, it's the way he is, and I need to let him be. We've found a few a few ways to help me along.
When he says he's done after a few bites I ask him if he wants to leave his plate on the counter till later of if he wants me to put it in the fridge. If he wants it on the counter he tends to come back to his food a short time later. If he wants it in the fridge we got him his own storage containers that he put stickers on, and we put it in the fridge till he's ready. If it's in the fridge he may get to it that day or the next.
I feel better knowing that the food isn't being "wasted" and Avery isn't having to suffer while I deal with my stuff.
~Rebecca
Any transition serious enough to alter your definition of self will require not just small adjustments in your way of living and thinking but a full-on metamorphosis ~Martha Beck~
3boysleadtheway@...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am struggling with some thingsAvery (5 in two weeks) does this, it used to kinda bug me, I grew up in a starving kids in Africa so clean your plate home.
> though....like getting up and leaving the table and coming back for
> more bites over and over again, or just plain old leave after about a
> 1/4 of the meal and be hungry an hour later.
I've come to realize, he knows if he's hungry or not, sometimes he just wants a few bites and he's done, sometimes he wants seconds, or thirds, sometimes he takes one bite and saves the rest for later, and sometimes it takes him an hour or more to eat, because he so busy.
I'm letting my irritation go, it wasn't helping us at all. It's him, it's the way he is, and I need to let him be. We've found a few a few ways to help me along.
When he says he's done after a few bites I ask him if he wants to leave his plate on the counter till later of if he wants me to put it in the fridge. If he wants it on the counter he tends to come back to his food a short time later. If he wants it in the fridge we got him his own storage containers that he put stickers on, and we put it in the fridge till he's ready. If it's in the fridge he may get to it that day or the next.
I feel better knowing that the food isn't being "wasted" and Avery isn't having to suffer while I deal with my stuff.
~Rebecca
Any transition serious enough to alter your definition of self will require not just small adjustments in your way of living and thinking but a full-on metamorphosis ~Martha Beck~
3boysleadtheway@...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
> I see how their little cousins stay at the table but Iacceptable
> think it is because of coercion and threats so that is not
> to me.I think one of the reasons a lot of moms feel obligated to have a
family meal is that it's been presented to us as such a warm, cozy,
happy-family, traditional image, one where we train our children to
be model citizens with good manners. I've struggled on and off with
having more sit down meals together, but I think that part of the
reason for that tradition is that families are often apart all day
and the family dinner is catch up time ("how was your day?" "what
did you learn in school?")
I've been WITH my kids all day and so having that focused,
designated quality time isn't so much an issue. Realizing that
took some of the pressure off. IME the best "quality time" springs
up in unprogrammed times and places. For us it's often either very
late at night or in the car. :-) I also believe that good manners
come primarily from modelling, not from rules and requirements.
I remember mandatory sit down meals during my childhood, and what I
was thinking during them was "how long until I can get up and go
back to my book/watch tv/call my friend?" I dreaded those meals.
(There's actually a very funny SNL skit concerning mandatory family
meals that I totally relate to. :-))
Part of it was family tensions and difficulties, but I'm certain a
big part of it was the mandatory nature of it- it felt like a
dreaded chore. I'd rather my children sit and eat with me (and they
do, a lot- not necessarily dinner but little meals or snacks here
and there) because they enjoy my company than because six o'clock is
shut off the tv, turn off the phone, quit whatever you're doing
Dinner Time. That said, I can say that the times when they will
choose to sit with you come not only with the kind of relationship
where they *want* to sit with you but with age and maturity. Most
very young children I know have NO desire to sit motionless in a
chair- they are all about movement, and for good reason. Their DNA
is telling them to MOVE!!!
> Also,the 3 yr old is soooooo busy, always having to have aany
> truck or something to play with, that there are times he literally
> refuses to feed himself and asks me to do it, (particularly with
> food that can drop off a spoon like porridge but I try to give himso
> mostly finger foods but even those lately he wants me to feed him)
> there are days the way he gets the majority of his intake is meThis is reminding me of memories I haven't thought of in a long
> feeding him.
while. All three of my sons (now 13, 11, and 7) ate out of my hands
on the run quite often as tiny boys. I never did the Meal Time
thing with them like so many moms I see where they strap the kid
down into some sort of contraption (or coerce him to sit there) and
make it into a whole required focused activity. My toddlers, if
they were awake, were pretty much constantly on the move, exploring
and playing. When I guessed they were hungry I'd hold a piece of
something- banana, peanut butter sandwich, whatever- within their
sight/smell and they'd lean over and take it into their mouths while
hardly missing a beat in their playing. I like Deb's mama bird
analogy, and didn't realize how much I miss directly feeding my
babies until this post.
They really do grow up fast. <sigh>
> ***The 6 yr old is pretty good at other people's houses as sheothers-
> understands that other people have different "rules" but the kids
> both struggle and I grit my teeth with that stupid what-will-
> think voice in my head or find myself not letting them eat beforeThat bitch. (The voice in your head- she visits mine sometimes
> going over to another's house so they will be hungry enough to stay
> at the table for a while. ***
too.) Ignore her and listen to your heart. :-)
> Any strategies anyone, for calming that voice that tells me theywill
> never stay at the table or eat a balanced diet?Well, it's not about staying at the table but it's a good book for
parents concerned about a balanced diet:
http://tinyurl.com/nargt
> But when they just eat aelse
> few nibbles off this CONSTANTLY during the day, and not anything
> it bothers me, as there is my mom in my head with the thoughts ofI
> worked hard to make this meal, so you eat it! Or another voicewhich
> thinks that they will be adults and still eat this way and not eatIt seems to me from reading your posts that the answers are right
> when over for company or something....silly I know!
inside you and are just being drowned out by those other voices. I
know how annoying and sabotaging those voices can be. Turn them
way down so you can hear your OWN voice (which seems very wise to
me).
Patti