Ren Allen

"Can you suggest other resources you have found helpful (for the lay
person) regarding non-attachment and mindfulness practice?"

Well, I ADORE Jon Kabbat-Zinn for sure! I keep that book (Wherever you
go, there you are) close by at all times and have quoted it in more
than one talk.:)

I also love "Zen, it's history and teachings" by Osho. Osho really
gets to the core of the matter for me, like a knife cutting away the
darkness to reveal enlightenment. He's hard core Zen (if there's such
a thing), but I feel like it was the "kick in the butt" I needed. He
speaks to the very core of my being (which is pretty full of chocolate
and tea, so it's amazing that anything can really speak to that);)

Simple Abundance by Sarah Ban Breathneck, Excavating Your Authentic
Self (same author) and Wishcraft by Barbara Scher were all favorites
at some point in this journey.

I love Deborah Koff-Chapin's Soul cards: http://www.touchdrawing.com/
(I'm a facilitator for touch drawing).

OH, one of my favorite resources is soulfulliving.com!! Awesome
articles by a variety of writers. Really great online magazine.

~And, someone just recently posted how she realized that she was the
problem/obstacle something along those lines. I discovered the same
thing. This, in SO many ways, is SO not about my kids, but about ME!
(Ding!)~

YES!! I am constantly amazed by how much change can happen because of
one person's attitude and action. I can't control anyone else, not
really. I CAN control my own reactions and behavior...and that is
often the thing that affects the MOST change in the household. Cool.

~Something will happen...the things we'd power struggle over in the
past and DH will say something along the lines of , "OK what I want to
say is, just do it because I said so" and I'll go "Uh-huh, but we're
not doing that anymore...what is next on your list?" ~

That is really great!! It's wonderful that you can work together and
help each other be more gentle.

~It's so fun working on this puzzle of living life together...when I
involve my kids (& DH) it's no longer all my responsibility to make
sure everything turns out alright...holy granola that was an
exhausting way to live! ~

Oh it IS! It's exhausting to control other people (or try to), it's
exhausting to focus on what other people "should" do, or "need to
learn" or anything else!!
Your whole post was such a joy to read. Thanks for sharing all the
lovely changes...it was inspirational!!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

I also love "Zen, it's history and teachings" by Osho. Osho really
gets to the core of the matter for me, like a knife cutting away the
darkness to reveal enlightenment. He's hard core Zen (if there's such
a thing), but I feel like it was the "kick in the butt" I needed. He
speaks to the very core of my being (which is pretty full of chocolate
and tea, so it's amazing that anything can really speak to that);)<<<<<<<<<<
rrre sdfgksfgk
My mother loves Osho and tells me about him a lot. I have mixed feelings about what her interpretations of what he says about children and parenting.
Some I completely agree abut ohters just seems humm....
She says Osho is adamant that children should not have parents and should be raised by the community.
And he does not believe in family. That parents somehow "spoil" ( not his words she says ) the kids.
What do you think? What is your take in that.
That is form the book he writes for women.


Alex

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~She says Osho is adamant that children should not have parents and
should be raised by the community.
And he does not believe in family. That parents somehow "spoil" ( not his
words she says ) the kids. What do you think? What is your take in that.
That is form the book he writes for women.~

I haven't read enough of his work to know. The book I have, talks
about stripping away what society puts in us to become like children
again...how PERFECT they are. That children have the way of seeing
with the "third eye".

I can see how he would think that if he was looking at traditional
parenting though!! He just didn't know about unschooling.:)
And I agree that children need access to a supportive, enriching
community of adults that are willing to share information with them.
It's ideal in many ways....we just don't have very good models of that.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

eriksmama2001

--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
> She says Osho is adamant that children should not have parents
and should be raised by the community.> And he does not believe in
family. That parents somehow "spoil" ( not his words she says ) the
kids.
> What do you think? What is your take in that.
> That is form the book he writes for women.


Alex, I am not familiar with this particular book or author. But,
from a 'we are all One' pov, I can see the Zen concept of not
creating the construct of a Self on which the Western cultural
paradigm is developed philosophically. In the West, the catch is
that our culture ISN'T a community, imo. Within the community/family
that we have chosen to surround ourselves, we consistently do work
to look to the other to see the impact of our actions, rather than
merely practicing the American philosophy of Me First! And we work
to extend this to our whole community by living consensually as a
practice.

The parenting paradigm in the West is very patriarchical. In the
East, much more communal. Our family is much more communal than the
Western norm. So, in that way, there isn't the Me/You adversarial
role of many parents in our culture. I would presume that most
radical unschooling families are similarly more communal than
patriarchical. I would suspect that this is what is implied by the
above reference to community/family. However, for us, as I
mentioned, "community" is somewhat limited on a day to day basis as
a philosophical division AWAY from our culture. We are communal as a
counter-culture choice.

The focus on relationships is more communal and the antithesis
of "Me First". BUT, my Ayn Rand leanings, also influence that 'Me
the Martyr' doesn't exist either. That is where Living Consensually
incorporates my interpretation of the Zen pov of living/raised in
community, where everyone's needs are held equally.

Pat

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

What she remenbers is that children should not be raised with the "attachment" to the mother & father. Adn that Osho is against marriage so the child would be raised in the community by the community and not the family.
I see how important it is for my kids to have mom and dad. I just can't agree with that point he makes. I do understand that he is probably talking about mainstream parenting and does not know unschooling. There are many things he says that I think are great, but I know little about him and only what my mom tells me or read to me. My mom loves most of his ideas ( not all ) . I was just wondering so I would take the time and read some os his writings..
Alex


----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Expectations thread


~She says Osho is adamant that children should not have parents and
should be raised by the community.
And he does not believe in family. That parents somehow "spoil" ( not his
words she says ) the kids. What do you think? What is your take in that.
That is form the book he writes for women.~

I haven't read enough of his work to know. The book I have, talks
about stripping away what society puts in us to become like children
again...how PERFECT they are. That children have the way of seeing
with the "third eye".

I can see how he would think that if he was looking at traditional
parenting though!! He just didn't know about unschooling.:)
And I agree that children need access to a supportive, enriching
community of adults that are willing to share information with them.
It's ideal in many ways....we just don't have very good models of that.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky

That makes more sense to me now Pat. Thank you for the insight.
I guess I just tdon't like a lot of the history surrounding him (Osho).
Alex




----- Original Message -----
From: eriksmama2001
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Zen and Unschooling was Re: Expectations thread


--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
> She says Osho is adamant that children should not have parents
and should be raised by the community.> And he does not believe in
family. That parents somehow "spoil" ( not his words she says ) the
kids.
> What do you think? What is your take in that.
> That is form the book he writes for women.

Alex, I am not familiar with this particular book or author. But,
from a 'we are all One' pov, I can see the Zen concept of not
creating the construct of a Self on which the Western cultural
paradigm is developed philosophically. In the West, the catch is
that our culture ISN'T a community, imo. Within the community/family
that we have chosen to surround ourselves, we consistently do work
to look to the other to see the impact of our actions, rather than
merely practicing the American philosophy of Me First! And we work
to extend this to our whole community by living consensually as a
practice.

The parenting paradigm in the West is very patriarchical. In the
East, much more communal. Our family is much more communal than the
Western norm. So, in that way, there isn't the Me/You adversarial
role of many parents in our culture. I would presume that most
radical unschooling families are similarly more communal than
patriarchical. I would suspect that this is what is implied by the
above reference to community/family. However, for us, as I
mentioned, "community" is somewhat limited on a day to day basis as
a philosophical division AWAY from our culture. We are communal as a
counter-culture choice.

The focus on relationships is more communal and the antithesis
of "Me First". BUT, my Ayn Rand leanings, also influence that 'Me
the Martyr' doesn't exist either. That is where Living Consensually
incorporates my interpretation of the Zen pov of living/raised in
community, where everyone's needs are held equally.

Pat





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]