this list
[email protected]
No one is tied up and forced to read and/or post here. It is strictly
voluntary. You may each leave and start your own un-elite group.
Go on.
I'll know when you leave.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities
of what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible.
They go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
voluntary. You may each leave and start your own un-elite group.
Go on.
I'll know when you leave.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities
of what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible.
They go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Kristin's Natural Childcare
What, so you can talk behind our backs?
And.I think I'll stick around a while. *SOME* people here have helped
me grow as a parent!
Go on.
I'll know when you leave.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearn <http://liveandlearnconference.org> conference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And.I think I'll stick around a while. *SOME* people here have helped
me grow as a parent!
Go on.
I'll know when you leave.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearn <http://liveandlearnconference.org> conference.org
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
drusila00
While no one is tied up or forced to do anything I think people come
to this list hoping to find gentle advice on how to ease into
unschooling. I know I did.
I have felt the eletist attitude come across here too. I have felt
it was not safe to post here. the funny thing is that I know a
couple people from this list in person and the reason I have not yet
left is because I know for sure that if they were speaking to me in
person that they would not be coming across as eletist. Some people
I do not know in person have come across in posts as concerned,
supportive and caring.
which has led me to wonder why the difference.
I have spent plenty of time wondering if text removes an attitude of
concern and instead brings in the feeling of cold indifference and
snobbery or if perhaps people feel that they can just lay it all out
without the kind and gentle trimmings they would add if they were
face to face.
I know from working in the animal rescue field for a long while that
eventualy you get sick of people, the way they ask for advice but
don't take it and then continue to whine and ask for more help.
eventualy people become hardened I think, I have. any more when
asked for advice in Animal training I tend to give it cut and dried
and.. well cold. bare bones and I'm sure bordering on bitchy at
times. Perhaps this is how the "old timers" from this list feel. I
can't say.
I rarely post here not because I wouldn't be getting the answers or
approval I want, but because it does not feel like a safe place to
post- I came to this conclusion by seeing what others sometimes get
put through when they post- I'm pretty thick skinned, but no one
likes to feel they are not 'good' enough to really be part of the
group. so I lurk about, trying to learn more. When I do post I let
the negitivity that is likely to come roll off me and try to sift
through to usefull information, because ultimatly my goal is to
learn about Unschooling from people who do it, who live it. not just
by reading some articles on line or a few books on the subject.
So far I have come to the conclusion that Unschoolers are just
people.
Some are fanatical, rigid hardline thinkers and some are flexable to
the point of wishywashyness. Many fall somewhere in between. Do I
think these descriptions make some good and others bad? no. Just
different and as is said here many more times than I can count --
everyone is different. we all think and learn and do things
diferently. Every one of you here on this list may have some peice
of advice, some turn of a phrase that I could take into myself,
somthing to contribute to me to help my family.
I learn and change by taking what is needed right now and leaving
the rest.
Should I leave this list now that I have said this?
to this list hoping to find gentle advice on how to ease into
unschooling. I know I did.
I have felt the eletist attitude come across here too. I have felt
it was not safe to post here. the funny thing is that I know a
couple people from this list in person and the reason I have not yet
left is because I know for sure that if they were speaking to me in
person that they would not be coming across as eletist. Some people
I do not know in person have come across in posts as concerned,
supportive and caring.
which has led me to wonder why the difference.
I have spent plenty of time wondering if text removes an attitude of
concern and instead brings in the feeling of cold indifference and
snobbery or if perhaps people feel that they can just lay it all out
without the kind and gentle trimmings they would add if they were
face to face.
I know from working in the animal rescue field for a long while that
eventualy you get sick of people, the way they ask for advice but
don't take it and then continue to whine and ask for more help.
eventualy people become hardened I think, I have. any more when
asked for advice in Animal training I tend to give it cut and dried
and.. well cold. bare bones and I'm sure bordering on bitchy at
times. Perhaps this is how the "old timers" from this list feel. I
can't say.
I rarely post here not because I wouldn't be getting the answers or
approval I want, but because it does not feel like a safe place to
post- I came to this conclusion by seeing what others sometimes get
put through when they post- I'm pretty thick skinned, but no one
likes to feel they are not 'good' enough to really be part of the
group. so I lurk about, trying to learn more. When I do post I let
the negitivity that is likely to come roll off me and try to sift
through to usefull information, because ultimatly my goal is to
learn about Unschooling from people who do it, who live it. not just
by reading some articles on line or a few books on the subject.
So far I have come to the conclusion that Unschoolers are just
people.
Some are fanatical, rigid hardline thinkers and some are flexable to
the point of wishywashyness. Many fall somewhere in between. Do I
think these descriptions make some good and others bad? no. Just
different and as is said here many more times than I can count --
everyone is different. we all think and learn and do things
diferently. Every one of you here on this list may have some peice
of advice, some turn of a phrase that I could take into myself,
somthing to contribute to me to help my family.
I learn and change by taking what is needed right now and leaving
the rest.
Should I leave this list now that I have said this?
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> No one is tied up and forced to read and/or post here. It is
strictly
> voluntary. You may each leave and start your own un-elite group.
>
> Go on.
>
> I'll know when you leave.
>
> ~Kelly
Tina Layne
No one is tied up and forced to read and/or post here. It is
strictly
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough or aren't quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here we are told we aren't forced to be here and to go on. So, is it that you don't want us in the other lists for the "old timers" or you don't want us on any lists that you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious and have no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking questions and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments like "I'll know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than another mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel left out, picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh to new questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
T
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
strictly
> voluntary. You may each leave and start your own un-elite group.I don't want to flame or be rude, seriously. I was only being as honest and forthright as possible without quibbling or spinning for anyone's benefit- not even my own. So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy... you'll know when we leave.
>
> Go on.
>
> I'll know when you leave.
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough or aren't quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here we are told we aren't forced to be here and to go on. So, is it that you don't want us in the other lists for the "old timers" or you don't want us on any lists that you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious and have no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking questions and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments like "I'll know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than another mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel left out, picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh to new questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
T
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy...
you'll know when we leave.
-=-=-
People don't leave. They hang around. Even if they don't like what
we're saying. Why do I think that is?
As owner, I am notified when members sub and unsub. They often say
they will leave; they don't.
The list is feeding *something* in them. And many---most---eventually
make the huge paradigm shift (or at least a step or two in the
unschooling direction) that it takes to unschool. Then they start to
post and joyfully add to the conversations. There are at least a dozen
parents new to this list who are adding to the conversations regularly
now. It's fun to watch them jump in and scream, "The water's FINE!"
*Anyone* can post and not be afraid of getting blasted. But she'll
have to *think* about what she posts first. Saying that "a child
*needs* punishment or at least disapproval" and then saying that she
didn't say that is not OK.
I have no problem being challenged. Challenge me. I like a debate. I
like answering unschooling questions. A lot. But I want to talk with
someone who *WANTS* to unschool. Who's TRYING to get there. If I wanted
to argue with someone for the sake of arguing, I could call one of my
sisters-in-law. Or go to the grocery store! <g>
I'm tired of working with someone who doesn't want to unschool. There
are plenty of people who DO want to get it; I'd rather save all my
energy for them.
On the plus side, maybe someone benefited from this last exchange.
Maybe something Ren or Pam or dear, patient Marji (or
godforbid---something *I* said) made a difference in some child's life
tonight.
-=-=-=-=-
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough
or aren't
quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here
we are
told we aren't forced to be here and to go on.
-=-=-=-
I think it's silly to think you can't ask questions. But *THINK*
before you ask. But badmouthing children is not going to go over well
here. Thinking poorly of them won't either. Do you want to know how it
works in our families? Or do you just want to argue that you way is
"just as right" as mine/ours? Punishing is NOT just as OK as not
punishing. Rewarding is NOT just as OK as not rewarding. Sending a
child to his room to think about it is NOT just as OK as hugging him
and making sure his needs are met (before you rant and rail).
There are mainstream answers you can get to almost every scenario
brought up here. Hell, just go ask Dr Phil or John (yuck!) Rosemond.
They will FILL you with mainstream parenting ideas---maybe even some
you haven't thought of! Jeez---you could just shout a question out your
back door and be blasted with well-meaning mainstream parenting "tips".
But to get someone who will question *why* you think you need to do
that---there are only a few places that can do that. Why do you think
that is? Maybe we've been questioned ourselves? Maybe we struggled and
have found a better way?
-=-=-=-=-
So, is it that you don't want us
in the other lists for the "old timers"
-=-=-=-
The Always Learning list usually refers folks here because it's really
not for "how do you get your kid to read or do math" questions. They
talk more about deeper unschooling issues; that's why it was
started---for people who didn't *need* to hear AGAIN how to get your
child to learn history or do an experiment. A place to chat about
unschooling without the same old questions that come up every few weeks.
Unschooling Discussion is the "mama" list to all these. Again, I think
many of the regular readers there were also weary of the same old
newbie questions, but they can handle some serious debate. That list is
definitely for delving into the whys of unschooling.
The Always Learning list is for parents of kids under eight-ish. I'm a
member; I read occasionally and hardly ever post. But they're there to
discuss how unschooling works with littluns. I don't have littluns.
*This* list is for all those issues that scare new unschoolers: the
ones that other lists just don't want to touch AGAIN. And I admit, I
can get very tired of doing it again and again some days. But that's
why we started this list---so that people had a place to ask those
questions.
BUT we assume that, if you're here, you are ready to take the plunge.
Or, hell, are at least open to change. I have very little patience left
for those who just want to poke at me or at the list.
-=-=-=-
or you don't want us on any lists that
you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious
and have
no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking
questions
and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments
like "I'll
know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than
another
mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
-=-=-=-
Is that what you saw?
*I* saw a woman who was here---NOT To get unschooling (she admitted
that), but to ask a few questions. When she was asked the same
questions BACK, she got defensive. She wasn't pushing *any* envelope:
she was fighting what she perceived as a challenge to her parenting.
The good thing is that she made some progress---I saw little lights go
off here and there. And even though she doesn't want to unschool some
of what she learned here *will* indeed stick with her. She *may* hate
me, but I'm not out looking for friends! <g>
I *do* think that I have found a better way of parenting, yes. *She*
came *here* asking questions. I did NOT go to her to push my view onto
her. I was asked questions and I asked back. I don't think she was sure
of her stance or her answers.
And again, as for the "I'll know when you leave" comment: none of you
(especially the poster who said she would) have left yet. Often the
poster will say she's leaving, but stay put for weeks, months.
-=-=-=-=-
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to
someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel
left out,
picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh
to new
questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
-=-=-=-
I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.
You mean it's OK to complain about how lousy my party is while
enjoying my wine and hors d'ouvres?
You don't have to stay at my party: you can find or host a party that
serves Schlitz and Saltines.
Some of the *best* unschooling writers are here. Some of the *best*
unschooling parents I have ever met (and I've met hundred and hundreds
in person) are here. Some of the absolute *gentlest* parents are here.
Do you not believe they are real?
Well, I can understand that "are they real?" bit! <g> That's why the
conference was started in the first place: 'cause I wanted to meet all
of them and *see* that they were real.
But do y'all not believe that we get the "results" we say we do? Do you
not believe that we can shun chores and bedtimes and forced apologies
and reading lessons and math workbooks and rewards and punishments and
*still* have amazingly kind, generous, and pleasant children? And not
just children, but TEENS!? Is it that far beyond comprehension?
No need to actually answer. Just ask the question of yourself. If it
*is* unbelievable, maybe unschooling isn't for you. If you really can't
fathom such a life, maybe it isn't attainable. We *know* it is: we're
living it. And we're happy to share how to get there. But you really do
need to open up and believe in the possibility. And you need to be
willing to ask and answer some really difficult questions (and get
answers you may not be comfortable with!).
But no one is making you. No one.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy...
you'll know when we leave.
-=-=-
People don't leave. They hang around. Even if they don't like what
we're saying. Why do I think that is?
As owner, I am notified when members sub and unsub. They often say
they will leave; they don't.
The list is feeding *something* in them. And many---most---eventually
make the huge paradigm shift (or at least a step or two in the
unschooling direction) that it takes to unschool. Then they start to
post and joyfully add to the conversations. There are at least a dozen
parents new to this list who are adding to the conversations regularly
now. It's fun to watch them jump in and scream, "The water's FINE!"
*Anyone* can post and not be afraid of getting blasted. But she'll
have to *think* about what she posts first. Saying that "a child
*needs* punishment or at least disapproval" and then saying that she
didn't say that is not OK.
I have no problem being challenged. Challenge me. I like a debate. I
like answering unschooling questions. A lot. But I want to talk with
someone who *WANTS* to unschool. Who's TRYING to get there. If I wanted
to argue with someone for the sake of arguing, I could call one of my
sisters-in-law. Or go to the grocery store! <g>
I'm tired of working with someone who doesn't want to unschool. There
are plenty of people who DO want to get it; I'd rather save all my
energy for them.
On the plus side, maybe someone benefited from this last exchange.
Maybe something Ren or Pam or dear, patient Marji (or
godforbid---something *I* said) made a difference in some child's life
tonight.
-=-=-=-=-
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough
or aren't
quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here
we are
told we aren't forced to be here and to go on.
-=-=-=-
I think it's silly to think you can't ask questions. But *THINK*
before you ask. But badmouthing children is not going to go over well
here. Thinking poorly of them won't either. Do you want to know how it
works in our families? Or do you just want to argue that you way is
"just as right" as mine/ours? Punishing is NOT just as OK as not
punishing. Rewarding is NOT just as OK as not rewarding. Sending a
child to his room to think about it is NOT just as OK as hugging him
and making sure his needs are met (before you rant and rail).
There are mainstream answers you can get to almost every scenario
brought up here. Hell, just go ask Dr Phil or John (yuck!) Rosemond.
They will FILL you with mainstream parenting ideas---maybe even some
you haven't thought of! Jeez---you could just shout a question out your
back door and be blasted with well-meaning mainstream parenting "tips".
But to get someone who will question *why* you think you need to do
that---there are only a few places that can do that. Why do you think
that is? Maybe we've been questioned ourselves? Maybe we struggled and
have found a better way?
-=-=-=-=-
So, is it that you don't want us
in the other lists for the "old timers"
-=-=-=-
The Always Learning list usually refers folks here because it's really
not for "how do you get your kid to read or do math" questions. They
talk more about deeper unschooling issues; that's why it was
started---for people who didn't *need* to hear AGAIN how to get your
child to learn history or do an experiment. A place to chat about
unschooling without the same old questions that come up every few weeks.
Unschooling Discussion is the "mama" list to all these. Again, I think
many of the regular readers there were also weary of the same old
newbie questions, but they can handle some serious debate. That list is
definitely for delving into the whys of unschooling.
The Always Learning list is for parents of kids under eight-ish. I'm a
member; I read occasionally and hardly ever post. But they're there to
discuss how unschooling works with littluns. I don't have littluns.
*This* list is for all those issues that scare new unschoolers: the
ones that other lists just don't want to touch AGAIN. And I admit, I
can get very tired of doing it again and again some days. But that's
why we started this list---so that people had a place to ask those
questions.
BUT we assume that, if you're here, you are ready to take the plunge.
Or, hell, are at least open to change. I have very little patience left
for those who just want to poke at me or at the list.
-=-=-=-
or you don't want us on any lists that
you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious
and have
no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking
questions
and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments
like "I'll
know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than
another
mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
-=-=-=-
Is that what you saw?
*I* saw a woman who was here---NOT To get unschooling (she admitted
that), but to ask a few questions. When she was asked the same
questions BACK, she got defensive. She wasn't pushing *any* envelope:
she was fighting what she perceived as a challenge to her parenting.
The good thing is that she made some progress---I saw little lights go
off here and there. And even though she doesn't want to unschool some
of what she learned here *will* indeed stick with her. She *may* hate
me, but I'm not out looking for friends! <g>
I *do* think that I have found a better way of parenting, yes. *She*
came *here* asking questions. I did NOT go to her to push my view onto
her. I was asked questions and I asked back. I don't think she was sure
of her stance or her answers.
And again, as for the "I'll know when you leave" comment: none of you
(especially the poster who said she would) have left yet. Often the
poster will say she's leaving, but stay put for weeks, months.
-=-=-=-=-
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to
someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel
left out,
picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh
to new
questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
-=-=-=-
I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.
You mean it's OK to complain about how lousy my party is while
enjoying my wine and hors d'ouvres?
You don't have to stay at my party: you can find or host a party that
serves Schlitz and Saltines.
Some of the *best* unschooling writers are here. Some of the *best*
unschooling parents I have ever met (and I've met hundred and hundreds
in person) are here. Some of the absolute *gentlest* parents are here.
Do you not believe they are real?
Well, I can understand that "are they real?" bit! <g> That's why the
conference was started in the first place: 'cause I wanted to meet all
of them and *see* that they were real.
But do y'all not believe that we get the "results" we say we do? Do you
not believe that we can shun chores and bedtimes and forced apologies
and reading lessons and math workbooks and rewards and punishments and
*still* have amazingly kind, generous, and pleasant children? And not
just children, but TEENS!? Is it that far beyond comprehension?
No need to actually answer. Just ask the question of yourself. If it
*is* unbelievable, maybe unschooling isn't for you. If you really can't
fathom such a life, maybe it isn't attainable. We *know* it is: we're
living it. And we're happy to share how to get there. But you really do
need to open up and believe in the possibility. And you need to be
willing to ask and answer some really difficult questions (and get
answers you may not be comfortable with!).
But no one is making you. No one.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
[email protected]
>>Is it necessary to feel left out, picked on, or picked apart to stay here?>>I certainly hope not! And I sincerely don't think this is what is going on. Topic discussions are welcomed. It's tearing down the list itself that gets tiresome.
I'm having a hard time understanding why the OP was feeling personally attcked in the rewards/punishment/Jalen-hugging discussion. It's hard to give an unschooling point of view in a discussion without comparing and contrasting it to a more traditional parenting style. That's not singling anyone out as bad or even traditional. (When did that get to be a bad word? lol) It's discussing the ideas.
I'm not a list owner or moderator. I belong to no club, organization or elite clique. I *like* differing points of view because it gets a good discussion going. When someone asks a question, I give the best unschooling answer I have on hand. When someone gets snarky, old and new posters alike, I just assume they're having a bad moment for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with me coexisting with them out here in cyberland.
I am confident 100% of the time in my choice to unschool and parent as my children's partner. I wasn't always, but I am now. I've seen the benefits. That's not to say you can't raise amazing kids a different way. It's just pointing out that what I was told repeatedly over the years from traditional sources was wrong.
I didn't need to punish to raise kids who know right from wrong.
I didn't need to shame for a child to feel bad about a misguided action.
I didn't need to set a lot of rules to have a happy, peaceful, cooperative household.
I didn't need to reward to keep my kids on the "right" path.
I didn't need to teach in order for them to learn.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
> No one is tied up and forced to read and/or post here. It is
> strictly
> > voluntary. You may each leave and start your own un-elite group.
> >
> > Go on.
> >
> > I'll know when you leave.
>
>
> I don't want to flame or be rude, seriously. I was only being as honest and
> forthright as possible without quibbling or spinning for anyone's benefit- not
> even my own. So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy...
> you'll know when we leave.
>
> We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough or aren't
> quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here we are
> told we aren't forced to be here and to go on. So, is it that you don't want us
> in the other lists for the "old timers" or you don't want us on any lists that
> you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious and have
> no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking questions
> and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments like "I'll
> know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than another
> mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
>
> I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to
> someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel left out,
> picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh to new
> questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
>
> T
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Rachell Skerlec
> (Kelly Lovejoy #15153) You may each leave and start your own un-elitegroup.
So be it.
> (Kelly Lovejoy #15157) If you don't like the list, you start one of yourown. You may even
announce it here.
Thank you. This is a kind offer (<practicing assuming the best about people
as she is a quick learner ;) >)
In case it fills a need, I have created the following Yahoo Group:
[email protected]
I invite everyone to join us over there and look forward to learning more
from those of you that do!
Here is my descrip. of this new group:
Welcome, one and all! This forum is designed to be a safe place for members
to post their questions, concerns, ideas, experience and information about
unschooling as a lifestyle as well as any related concepts that may come up
without fear of persecution of any kind. We aim to be a kinder, gentler
alternative to more elite-seeming unschool lists and have indeed formed this
list at thier behest. We value the unique input of all members and
appreciate the diversity inherent in our ranks. We would like to encourage
veterans, newbies, and anyone even just exploring unschooling to post freely
and without reservation. We will do our best to support you, help you and of
course learn from you in turn in the most respectful way possible (no one is
perfect :)).
In an appreciation for full disclosure, I will admit that *I* the list owner
am only just exploring unschooling at this point in time and do not consider
myself in any way to be an unschooling authority. It is my sincere hope
other more experienced unschoolers will join us here and kindly share their
insights.
~Rachell
~;*Nice matters.*;~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jennifer Dion
I may be changing the subject. I am sorry but I had so many post I couldn't keep up. I only read about half. I was wondering if we could maybe get back to unschooling. I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many questions.My head is spinning.So if this question was asked in past few days sorry. Like I said I had a hard time keeping up. My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it wouldn't to much of a shock for them.Because they are so used to being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment periods do I need to know about? I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.LOL Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan? Thanks for allowing in your group.
Jen
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy...
you'll know when we leave.
-=-=-
People don't leave. They hang around. Even if they don't like what
we're saying. Why do I think that is?
As owner, I am notified when members sub and unsub. They often say
they will leave; they don't.
The list is feeding *something* in them. And many---most---eventually
make the huge paradigm shift (or at least a step or two in the
unschooling direction) that it takes to unschool. Then they start to
post and joyfully add to the conversations. There are at least a dozen
parents new to this list who are adding to the conversations regularly
now. It's fun to watch them jump in and scream, "The water's FINE!"
*Anyone* can post and not be afraid of getting blasted. But she'll
have to *think* about what she posts first. Saying that "a child
*needs* punishment or at least disapproval" and then saying that she
didn't say that is not OK.
I have no problem being challenged. Challenge me. I like a debate. I
like answering unschooling questions. A lot. But I want to talk with
someone who *WANTS* to unschool. Who's TRYING to get there. If I wanted
to argue with someone for the sake of arguing, I could call one of my
sisters-in-law. Or go to the grocery store! <g>
I'm tired of working with someone who doesn't want to unschool. There
are plenty of people who DO want to get it; I'd rather save all my
energy for them.
On the plus side, maybe someone benefited from this last exchange.
Maybe something Ren or Pam or dear, patient Marji (or
godforbid---something *I* said) made a difference in some child's life
tonight.
-=-=-=-=-
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough
or aren't
quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here
we are
told we aren't forced to be here and to go on.
-=-=-=-
I think it's silly to think you can't ask questions. But *THINK*
before you ask. But badmouthing children is not going to go over well
here. Thinking poorly of them won't either. Do you want to know how it
works in our families? Or do you just want to argue that you way is
"just as right" as mine/ours? Punishing is NOT just as OK as not
punishing. Rewarding is NOT just as OK as not rewarding. Sending a
child to his room to think about it is NOT just as OK as hugging him
and making sure his needs are met (before you rant and rail).
There are mainstream answers you can get to almost every scenario
brought up here. Hell, just go ask Dr Phil or John (yuck!) Rosemond.
They will FILL you with mainstream parenting ideas---maybe even some
you haven't thought of! Jeez---you could just shout a question out your
back door and be blasted with well-meaning mainstream parenting "tips".
But to get someone who will question *why* you think you need to do
that---there are only a few places that can do that. Why do you think
that is? Maybe we've been questioned ourselves? Maybe we struggled and
have found a better way?
-=-=-=-=-
So, is it that you don't want us
in the other lists for the "old timers"
-=-=-=-
The Always Learning list usually refers folks here because it's really
not for "how do you get your kid to read or do math" questions. They
talk more about deeper unschooling issues; that's why it was
started---for people who didn't *need* to hear AGAIN how to get your
child to learn history or do an experiment. A place to chat about
unschooling without the same old questions that come up every few weeks.
Unschooling Discussion is the "mama" list to all these. Again, I think
many of the regular readers there were also weary of the same old
newbie questions, but they can handle some serious debate. That list is
definitely for delving into the whys of unschooling.
The Always Learning list is for parents of kids under eight-ish. I'm a
member; I read occasionally and hardly ever post. But they're there to
discuss how unschooling works with littluns. I don't have littluns.
*This* list is for all those issues that scare new unschoolers: the
ones that other lists just don't want to touch AGAIN. And I admit, I
can get very tired of doing it again and again some days. But that's
why we started this list---so that people had a place to ask those
questions.
BUT we assume that, if you're here, you are ready to take the plunge.
Or, hell, are at least open to change. I have very little patience left
for those who just want to poke at me or at the list.
-=-=-=-
or you don't want us on any lists that
you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious
and have
no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking
questions
and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments
like "I'll
know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than
another
mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
-=-=-=-
Is that what you saw?
*I* saw a woman who was here---NOT To get unschooling (she admitted
that), but to ask a few questions. When she was asked the same
questions BACK, she got defensive. She wasn't pushing *any* envelope:
she was fighting what she perceived as a challenge to her parenting.
The good thing is that she made some progress---I saw little lights go
off here and there. And even though she doesn't want to unschool some
of what she learned here *will* indeed stick with her. She *may* hate
me, but I'm not out looking for friends! <g>
I *do* think that I have found a better way of parenting, yes. *She*
came *here* asking questions. I did NOT go to her to push my view onto
her. I was asked questions and I asked back. I don't think she was sure
of her stance or her answers.
And again, as for the "I'll know when you leave" comment: none of you
(especially the poster who said she would) have left yet. Often the
poster will say she's leaving, but stay put for weeks, months.
-=-=-=-=-
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to
someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel
left out,
picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh
to new
questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
-=-=-=-
I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.
You mean it's OK to complain about how lousy my party is while
enjoying my wine and hors d'ouvres?
You don't have to stay at my party: you can find or host a party that
serves Schlitz and Saltines.
Some of the *best* unschooling writers are here. Some of the *best*
unschooling parents I have ever met (and I've met hundred and hundreds
in person) are here. Some of the absolute *gentlest* parents are here.
Do you not believe they are real?
Well, I can understand that "are they real?" bit! <g> That's why the
conference was started in the first place: 'cause I wanted to meet all
of them and *see* that they were real.
But do y'all not believe that we get the "results" we say we do? Do you
not believe that we can shun chores and bedtimes and forced apologies
and reading lessons and math workbooks and rewards and punishments and
*still* have amazingly kind, generous, and pleasant children? And not
just children, but TEENS!? Is it that far beyond comprehension?
No need to actually answer. Just ask the question of yourself. If it
*is* unbelievable, maybe unschooling isn't for you. If you really can't
fathom such a life, maybe it isn't attainable. We *know* it is: we're
living it. And we're happy to share how to get there. But you really do
need to open up and believe in the possibility. And you need to be
willing to ask and answer some really difficult questions (and get
answers you may not be comfortable with!).
But no one is making you. No one.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
__________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jen
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Layne <tinalayne@...>
So, for this comment to be made is actually a little creepy...
you'll know when we leave.
-=-=-
People don't leave. They hang around. Even if they don't like what
we're saying. Why do I think that is?
As owner, I am notified when members sub and unsub. They often say
they will leave; they don't.
The list is feeding *something* in them. And many---most---eventually
make the huge paradigm shift (or at least a step or two in the
unschooling direction) that it takes to unschool. Then they start to
post and joyfully add to the conversations. There are at least a dozen
parents new to this list who are adding to the conversations regularly
now. It's fun to watch them jump in and scream, "The water's FINE!"
*Anyone* can post and not be afraid of getting blasted. But she'll
have to *think* about what she posts first. Saying that "a child
*needs* punishment or at least disapproval" and then saying that she
didn't say that is not OK.
I have no problem being challenged. Challenge me. I like a debate. I
like answering unschooling questions. A lot. But I want to talk with
someone who *WANTS* to unschool. Who's TRYING to get there. If I wanted
to argue with someone for the sake of arguing, I could call one of my
sisters-in-law. Or go to the grocery store! <g>
I'm tired of working with someone who doesn't want to unschool. There
are plenty of people who DO want to get it; I'd rather save all my
energy for them.
On the plus side, maybe someone benefited from this last exchange.
Maybe something Ren or Pam or dear, patient Marji (or
godforbid---something *I* said) made a difference in some child's life
tonight.
-=-=-=-=-
We are told on other lists to come here because we don't know enough
or aren't
quite there yet or have a lot of questions. But then when we are here
we are
told we aren't forced to be here and to go on.
-=-=-=-
I think it's silly to think you can't ask questions. But *THINK*
before you ask. But badmouthing children is not going to go over well
here. Thinking poorly of them won't either. Do you want to know how it
works in our families? Or do you just want to argue that you way is
"just as right" as mine/ours? Punishing is NOT just as OK as not
punishing. Rewarding is NOT just as OK as not rewarding. Sending a
child to his room to think about it is NOT just as OK as hugging him
and making sure his needs are met (before you rant and rail).
There are mainstream answers you can get to almost every scenario
brought up here. Hell, just go ask Dr Phil or John (yuck!) Rosemond.
They will FILL you with mainstream parenting ideas---maybe even some
you haven't thought of! Jeez---you could just shout a question out your
back door and be blasted with well-meaning mainstream parenting "tips".
But to get someone who will question *why* you think you need to do
that---there are only a few places that can do that. Why do you think
that is? Maybe we've been questioned ourselves? Maybe we struggled and
have found a better way?
-=-=-=-=-
So, is it that you don't want us
in the other lists for the "old timers"
-=-=-=-
The Always Learning list usually refers folks here because it's really
not for "how do you get your kid to read or do math" questions. They
talk more about deeper unschooling issues; that's why it was
started---for people who didn't *need* to hear AGAIN how to get your
child to learn history or do an experiment. A place to chat about
unschooling without the same old questions that come up every few weeks.
Unschooling Discussion is the "mama" list to all these. Again, I think
many of the regular readers there were also weary of the same old
newbie questions, but they can handle some serious debate. That list is
definitely for delving into the whys of unschooling.
The Always Learning list is for parents of kids under eight-ish. I'm a
member; I read occasionally and hardly ever post. But they're there to
discuss how unschooling works with littluns. I don't have littluns.
*This* list is for all those issues that scare new unschoolers: the
ones that other lists just don't want to touch AGAIN. And I admit, I
can get very tired of doing it again and again some days. But that's
why we started this list---so that people had a place to ask those
questions.
BUT we assume that, if you're here, you are ready to take the plunge.
Or, hell, are at least open to change. I have very little patience left
for those who just want to poke at me or at the list.
-=-=-=-
or you don't want us on any lists that
you belong to? This isn't an imflammatory question- I am very serious
and have
no feelings of anger, just curiosity. What is it about newbies asking
questions
and pushing the envelope that brings out ill feelings and comments
like "I'll
know when you leave" or affirmation that you think you are better than
another
mom because she isn't where you are yet in your parenting?
-=-=-=-
Is that what you saw?
*I* saw a woman who was here---NOT To get unschooling (she admitted
that), but to ask a few questions. When she was asked the same
questions BACK, she got defensive. She wasn't pushing *any* envelope:
she was fighting what she perceived as a challenge to her parenting.
The good thing is that she made some progress---I saw little lights go
off here and there. And even though she doesn't want to unschool some
of what she learned here *will* indeed stick with her. She *may* hate
me, but I'm not out looking for friends! <g>
I *do* think that I have found a better way of parenting, yes. *She*
came *here* asking questions. I did NOT go to her to push my view onto
her. I was asked questions and I asked back. I don't think she was sure
of her stance or her answers.
And again, as for the "I'll know when you leave" comment: none of you
(especially the poster who said she would) have left yet. Often the
poster will say she's leaving, but stay put for weeks, months.
-=-=-=-=-
I know we aren't forced to be here. But what kind of answer is that to
someone? It's very "my way or the highway". Is it necessary to feel
left out,
picked on, or picked apart to stay here? Is it really okay to be harsh
to new
questioning people because "they aren't forced to stay"?
-=-=-=-
I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.
You mean it's OK to complain about how lousy my party is while
enjoying my wine and hors d'ouvres?
You don't have to stay at my party: you can find or host a party that
serves Schlitz and Saltines.
Some of the *best* unschooling writers are here. Some of the *best*
unschooling parents I have ever met (and I've met hundred and hundreds
in person) are here. Some of the absolute *gentlest* parents are here.
Do you not believe they are real?
Well, I can understand that "are they real?" bit! <g> That's why the
conference was started in the first place: 'cause I wanted to meet all
of them and *see* that they were real.
But do y'all not believe that we get the "results" we say we do? Do you
not believe that we can shun chores and bedtimes and forced apologies
and reading lessons and math workbooks and rewards and punishments and
*still* have amazingly kind, generous, and pleasant children? And not
just children, but TEENS!? Is it that far beyond comprehension?
No need to actually answer. Just ask the question of yourself. If it
*is* unbelievable, maybe unschooling isn't for you. If you really can't
fathom such a life, maybe it isn't attainable. We *know* it is: we're
living it. And we're happy to share how to get there. But you really do
need to open up and believe in the possibility. And you need to be
willing to ask and answer some really difficult questions (and get
answers you may not be comfortable with!).
But no one is making you. No one.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities of
what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible. They
go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
__________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
eriksmama2001
--- In [email protected], "Rachell Skerlec"
<panacea@...> wrote:
send an e-mail request to subscribe to the above address?
Thanks, Pat
<panacea@...> wrote:
> In case it fills a need, I have created the following Yahoo Group:Rachell, is there a direct link to the yahoogroup, or does one need to
>
>
>
> [email protected]
send an e-mail request to subscribe to the above address?
Thanks, Pat
Ren Allen
~Rachell, is there a direct link to the yahoogroup, or does one need to
send an e-mail request to subscribe to the above address?~
Rachell has left Unschooling Basics.
The link to her group is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
send an e-mail request to subscribe to the above address?~
Rachell has left Unschooling Basics.
The link to her group is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
eriksmama2001
Here is the link for Rachell's new unschooling group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/?yguid=88692815
We also have a Consensual Living yahoogroup for families who live by
consent: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/ It is not
exclusively an Unschooling group. However, it is a respectful
parenting group. It is not a TCS group.
There is also an uncensored unschooling group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freethinking_unschoolers/?
yguid=140240070 CAUTION: It is NOT for the faint-of-heart.
And there is the AlwaysUnschooled list for those who are Radically
Unschooling young children:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/?yguid=140240070
Something for everyone. :-)
Pat
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/?yguid=88692815
We also have a Consensual Living yahoogroup for families who live by
consent: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/ It is not
exclusively an Unschooling group. However, it is a respectful
parenting group. It is not a TCS group.
There is also an uncensored unschooling group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freethinking_unschoolers/?
yguid=140240070 CAUTION: It is NOT for the faint-of-heart.
And there is the AlwaysUnschooled list for those who are Radically
Unschooling young children:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/?yguid=140240070
Something for everyone. :-)
Pat
Tina
<I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many uestions.
My head is spinning. So if this question was asked in past few days
sorry.>
No need to apologize. This list is for unschooling question
asking. :-)
<My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the
thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
wouldn't to much of a shock for them. Because they are so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do I need to know about?>
I believe the general guideline is one month for each year spent in
structured "learning", correct me if I'm wrong here...anyone.
Again, this is just a guideline. Some individuals may need more,
some less. Also, don't forget to give yourself plenty of time. It
helps to talk with your children about what you are doing. Then,
turn your focus on your interests. Don't get caught up in worrying
about what they are or are not doing. Learn to see everything as
having value. Join them in their pursuits. Be present. It is
really the best thing you could do.
<I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.>
You don't sound scatter brained at all. Your questions are very
concise. The more you read, ask questions, spend time with your
children, explore your interests the more you will gain confidence
in what you are doing.
<Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?>
Jen, I live in Michigan, too. I've never heard of an unschooling
conference here. We do have a homeschooling conference in Grand
Rapids each January. There was also the conference that was held in
the east. Sorry, the name eludes me right now. Someone else can
tell you the name, I'm sure. It was a lot closer than traveling to
the other conference that's coming up, but that one already
happened. I'm not sure if it will be held next year as well. I
sure hope so, as I would love to attend.
<Thanks for allowing in your group.>
You are very welcome here. Glad to have another Michigander poking
around. :-) What part of Michigan are you in? I live in Roseville
in SE Michigan.
Tina
My head is spinning. So if this question was asked in past few days
sorry.>
No need to apologize. This list is for unschooling question
asking. :-)
<My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the
thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
wouldn't to much of a shock for them. Because they are so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do I need to know about?>
I believe the general guideline is one month for each year spent in
structured "learning", correct me if I'm wrong here...anyone.
Again, this is just a guideline. Some individuals may need more,
some less. Also, don't forget to give yourself plenty of time. It
helps to talk with your children about what you are doing. Then,
turn your focus on your interests. Don't get caught up in worrying
about what they are or are not doing. Learn to see everything as
having value. Join them in their pursuits. Be present. It is
really the best thing you could do.
<I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.>
You don't sound scatter brained at all. Your questions are very
concise. The more you read, ask questions, spend time with your
children, explore your interests the more you will gain confidence
in what you are doing.
<Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?>
Jen, I live in Michigan, too. I've never heard of an unschooling
conference here. We do have a homeschooling conference in Grand
Rapids each January. There was also the conference that was held in
the east. Sorry, the name eludes me right now. Someone else can
tell you the name, I'm sure. It was a lot closer than traveling to
the other conference that's coming up, but that one already
happened. I'm not sure if it will be held next year as well. I
sure hope so, as I would love to attend.
<Thanks for allowing in your group.>
You are very welcome here. Glad to have another Michigander poking
around. :-) What part of Michigan are you in? I live in Roseville
in SE Michigan.
Tina
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 30, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Jennifer Dion wrote:
to do when they don't feel like they are "supposed to" be learning.
Find ways to add to, support, expand on what they choose to do while
on "vacation."
For example, if they play video games a lot, go to videogame stores,
read videogame magazines and websites, play with them and let them
explain all the specifics and nuances to you. Invite friends over to
play - hook up machines to each other - help the kids learn to play
online games and on and on.
If they like to skateboard, go to skate parks - travel around and
visit skate parks in different locales - heck, have a skateboard park
vacation, subscribe to skating magazines, go to tournaments and
demonstrations, hang out at skate stores and talk to the guys about
wheels, build ramps.
And so on....
Plus - offer other stuff that you think they might enjoy - visit
theme parks, living history sites, museums, concerts, etc. -- but
don't insist on anything - just enjoy it and, if kids are NOT
enjoying it, don't keep on.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate theGo on summer vacation and just stay on it. Look at what they choose
> thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
> wouldn't to much of a shock for them.Because they are so used to
> being structured and everything being timed.
to do when they don't feel like they are "supposed to" be learning.
Find ways to add to, support, expand on what they choose to do while
on "vacation."
For example, if they play video games a lot, go to videogame stores,
read videogame magazines and websites, play with them and let them
explain all the specifics and nuances to you. Invite friends over to
play - hook up machines to each other - help the kids learn to play
online games and on and on.
If they like to skateboard, go to skate parks - travel around and
visit skate parks in different locales - heck, have a skateboard park
vacation, subscribe to skating magazines, go to tournaments and
demonstrations, hang out at skate stores and talk to the guys about
wheels, build ramps.
And so on....
Plus - offer other stuff that you think they might enjoy - visit
theme parks, living history sites, museums, concerts, etc. -- but
don't insist on anything - just enjoy it and, if kids are NOT
enjoying it, don't keep on.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Dion <maggielou007@...>
I may be changing the subject. I am sorry but I had so many post I
couldn't keep
up. I only read about half. I was wondering if we could maybe get back
to
unschooling.
--=-=-=-
JOYFULLY!
-=-=-=-
I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many
questions.My head is spinning.So if this question was asked in past few
days
sorry. Like I said I had a hard time keeping up. My 11 and 7 have
always gone to
public school. I really hate the thought of them going back to
school. I want
to make sure it wouldn't to much of a shock for them.Because they are
so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do
I need to know about?
-=-=--
The rule of thumb is one month of deschooling for each year they (and
*you*) were in school.
But the best thing you can do---especially since it's summer, is to
just keep having summer vacation. Don't quit in September. Have fun
with your passions. Immerse yourselves in them. If you're having too
much fun, GOOD!
On the other hand, if the kids seem dazed and out of it, they *still*
need to deschool. It may not look the same as days full of fun and
passions. If school really took a lot out of them, they may be listless
and unwillling to try anything new. They need to heal. Ease them out
with things like at-home movie days when you watch 3-4 movies and order
pizza out and just enjoy each other. Take them out to eat---new
restaurants, ethnic restaurants. Play with your food! Well, maybe not
in the restaurants <g>, but at home. (There's a great book called "Play
with Your Food---check it out!)
Offer things you think they might like---but be prepared for and
accept "no" as an answer. They may not be ready yet.
Patience. Trust. Respect.
-=-=-=-=-
Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?
-=--=-=-=-=-
Sorry, no.
But if you'd like to host one there yourself, I'll be happy to help!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities
of what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible.
They go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: Jennifer Dion <maggielou007@...>
I may be changing the subject. I am sorry but I had so many post I
couldn't keep
up. I only read about half. I was wondering if we could maybe get back
to
unschooling.
--=-=-=-
JOYFULLY!
-=-=-=-
I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many
questions.My head is spinning.So if this question was asked in past few
days
sorry. Like I said I had a hard time keeping up. My 11 and 7 have
always gone to
public school. I really hate the thought of them going back to
school. I want
to make sure it wouldn't to much of a shock for them.Because they are
so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do
I need to know about?
-=-=--
The rule of thumb is one month of deschooling for each year they (and
*you*) were in school.
But the best thing you can do---especially since it's summer, is to
just keep having summer vacation. Don't quit in September. Have fun
with your passions. Immerse yourselves in them. If you're having too
much fun, GOOD!
On the other hand, if the kids seem dazed and out of it, they *still*
need to deschool. It may not look the same as days full of fun and
passions. If school really took a lot out of them, they may be listless
and unwillling to try anything new. They need to heal. Ease them out
with things like at-home movie days when you watch 3-4 movies and order
pizza out and just enjoy each other. Take them out to eat---new
restaurants, ethnic restaurants. Play with your food! Well, maybe not
in the restaurants <g>, but at home. (There's a great book called "Play
with Your Food---check it out!)
Offer things you think they might like---but be prepared for and
accept "no" as an answer. They may not be ready yet.
Patience. Trust. Respect.
-=-=-=-=-
Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?
-=--=-=-=-=-
Sorry, no.
But if you'd like to host one there yourself, I'll be happy to help!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
School's goal is to prepare them to be anything they want. But the
process is so dullifying and kids haven't explored the possibilities
of what they could be that many set their sites as low as possible.
They go to college to get a job to buy stuff. ~Joyce Fetteroll
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Jennifer Dion
Tina
I hope they do have another conference here in Michigan.I wouldn't mind doing A conference. I just don't know enough about it this yet. I live in Chesaning.We live right in middle of Flint and Lansing. I hope you don't mind sharing your wisdom. I will be asking a lot of questions.This started with my 4 year old not being ready for K. Now I may try to keep my older two home. My 11 is in middle school all ready. Middle school starts in the 5Th grade. It's bull, these kids are to young. He is the one I worry about. He is at that age were he can be real nasty. He may not adjust so easily. My daughter will do great. Than I have the two little ones 4 and 2. They will do just fine. Thanks so much
Jen
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote: <I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many uestions.
My head is spinning. So if this question was asked in past few days
sorry.>
No need to apologize. This list is for unschooling question
asking. :-)
<My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the
thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
wouldn't to much of a shock for them. Because they are so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do I need to know about?>
I believe the general guideline is one month for each year spent in
structured "learning", correct me if I'm wrong here...anyone.
Again, this is just a guideline. Some individuals may need more,
some less. Also, don't forget to give yourself plenty of time. It
helps to talk with your children about what you are doing. Then,
turn your focus on your interests. Don't get caught up in worrying
about what they are or are not doing. Learn to see everything as
having value. Join them in their pursuits. Be present. It is
really the best thing you could do.
<I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.>
You don't sound scatter brained at all. Your questions are very
concise. The more you read, ask questions, spend time with your
children, explore your interests the more you will gain confidence
in what you are doing.
<Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?>
Jen, I live in Michigan, too. I've never heard of an unschooling
conference here. We do have a homeschooling conference in Grand
Rapids each January. There was also the conference that was held in
the east. Sorry, the name eludes me right now. Someone else can
tell you the name, I'm sure. It was a lot closer than traveling to
the other conference that's coming up, but that one already
happened. I'm not sure if it will be held next year as well. I
sure hope so, as I would love to attend.
<Thanks for allowing in your group.>
You are very welcome here. Glad to have another Michigander poking
around. :-) What part of Michigan are you in? I live in Roseville
in SE Michigan.
Tina
---------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I hope they do have another conference here in Michigan.I wouldn't mind doing A conference. I just don't know enough about it this yet. I live in Chesaning.We live right in middle of Flint and Lansing. I hope you don't mind sharing your wisdom. I will be asking a lot of questions.This started with my 4 year old not being ready for K. Now I may try to keep my older two home. My 11 is in middle school all ready. Middle school starts in the 5Th grade. It's bull, these kids are to young. He is the one I worry about. He is at that age were he can be real nasty. He may not adjust so easily. My daughter will do great. Than I have the two little ones 4 and 2. They will do just fine. Thanks so much
Jen
Tina <zoocrew@...> wrote: <I really don't want to be rude but I still have so many uestions.
My head is spinning. So if this question was asked in past few days
sorry.>
No need to apologize. This list is for unschooling question
asking. :-)
<My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the
thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
wouldn't to much of a shock for them. Because they are so used to
being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
periods do I need to know about?>
I believe the general guideline is one month for each year spent in
structured "learning", correct me if I'm wrong here...anyone.
Again, this is just a guideline. Some individuals may need more,
some less. Also, don't forget to give yourself plenty of time. It
helps to talk with your children about what you are doing. Then,
turn your focus on your interests. Don't get caught up in worrying
about what they are or are not doing. Learn to see everything as
having value. Join them in their pursuits. Be present. It is
really the best thing you could do.
<I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.>
You don't sound scatter brained at all. Your questions are very
concise. The more you read, ask questions, spend time with your
children, explore your interests the more you will gain confidence
in what you are doing.
<Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?>
Jen, I live in Michigan, too. I've never heard of an unschooling
conference here. We do have a homeschooling conference in Grand
Rapids each January. There was also the conference that was held in
the east. Sorry, the name eludes me right now. Someone else can
tell you the name, I'm sure. It was a lot closer than traveling to
the other conference that's coming up, but that one already
happened. I'm not sure if it will be held next year as well. I
sure hope so, as I would love to attend.
<Thanks for allowing in your group.>
You are very welcome here. Glad to have another Michigander poking
around. :-) What part of Michigan are you in? I live in Roseville
in SE Michigan.
Tina
---------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
Come and join us on the Michigan Unschoolers list!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-15, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 7/1/06, Jennifer Dion <maggielou007@...> wrote:
>
> Tina
> I hope they do have another conference here in Michigan.I wouldn't mind
> doing A conference. I just don't know enough about it this yet. I live in
> Chesaning.We live right in middle of Flint and Lansing. I hope you don't
> mind sharing your wisdom. I will be asking a lot of questions.This started
> with my 4 year old not being ready for K. Now I may try to keep my older two
> home. My 11 is in middle school all ready. Middle school starts in the 5Th
> grade. It's bull, these kids are to young. He is the one I worry about. He
> is at that age were he can be real nasty. He may not adjust so easily. My
> daughter will do great. Than I have the two little ones 4 and 2. They will
> do just fine. Thanks so much
> Jen
>
> Tina <zoocrew@... <zoocrew%40wideopenwest.com>> wrote: <I
> really don't want to be rude but I still have so many uestions.
> My head is spinning. So if this question was asked in past few days
> sorry.>
>
> No need to apologize. This list is for unschooling question
> asking. :-)
>
> <My 11 and 7 have always gone to public school. I really hate the
> thought of them going back to school. I want to make sure it
> wouldn't to much of a shock for them. Because they are so used to
> being structured and everything being timed. What kind of adjustment
> periods do I need to know about?>
>
> I believe the general guideline is one month for each year spent in
> structured "learning", correct me if I'm wrong here...anyone.
> Again, this is just a guideline. Some individuals may need more,
> some less. Also, don't forget to give yourself plenty of time. It
> helps to talk with your children about what you are doing. Then,
> turn your focus on your interests. Don't get caught up in worrying
> about what they are or are not doing. Learn to see everything as
> having value. Join them in their pursuits. Be present. It is
> really the best thing you could do.
>
> <I probably sound very scattered brained, well that because I am.>
>
> You don't sound scatter brained at all. Your questions are very
> concise. The more you read, ask questions, spend time with your
> children, explore your interests the more you will gain confidence
> in what you are doing.
>
> <Also do your conferences ever make it out to Michigan?>
>
> Jen, I live in Michigan, too. I've never heard of an unschooling
> conference here. We do have a homeschooling conference in Grand
> Rapids each January. There was also the conference that was held in
> the east. Sorry, the name eludes me right now. Someone else can
> tell you the name, I'm sure. It was a lot closer than traveling to
> the other conference that's coming up, but that one already
> happened. I'm not sure if it will be held next year as well. I
> sure hope so, as I would love to attend.
>
> <Thanks for allowing in your group.>
>
> You are very welcome here. Glad to have another Michigander poking
> around. :-) What part of Michigan are you in? I live in Roseville
> in SE Michigan.
>
> Tina
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
Hey Jen - there isn't "an age" where it is normal for kids to be
"real nasty."
So - the fact that you used that description tells me that you'd be
doing him a HUGE service to get him out of school and deschooling and
relaxing and feeling secure and not constantly being controlled.
-pam
"real nasty."
So - the fact that you used that description tells me that you'd be
doing him a HUGE service to get him out of school and deschooling and
relaxing and feeling secure and not constantly being controlled.
-pam
On Jul 1, 2006, at 6:51 AM, Jennifer Dion wrote:
> He is the one I worry about. He is at that age were he can be real
> nasty. He may not adjust so easily.
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
<Middle school starts in the 5Th grade.>
All I can think is, "WOW!"
As far as your unschooling journey goes and decision making process is
concerned just keep asking questions. Keep reading. Immerse yourself
as far as you can.
I can totally relate to your situation. Our oldest four graduated
from public school. We pulled the three youngers out at various
stages. It really is an individual decision for everyone.
Knowledge fueled by desire is power...
Tina
All I can think is, "WOW!"
As far as your unschooling journey goes and decision making process is
concerned just keep asking questions. Keep reading. Immerse yourself
as far as you can.
I can totally relate to your situation. Our oldest four graduated
from public school. We pulled the three youngers out at various
stages. It really is an individual decision for everyone.
Knowledge fueled by desire is power...
Tina
Queana
Also there is the Unschooling-dotcom list at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschooling-dotcom and the Unschooling List
listserv at http://user.mc.net/~kwentz/ULfaq.shtml
~Q~
aka Sarah
http://www.unbridledlearning.com
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschooling-dotcom and the Unschooling List
listserv at http://user.mc.net/~kwentz/ULfaq.shtml
~Q~
aka Sarah
http://www.unbridledlearning.com
> -----Original Message-------
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of eriksmama2001
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: New unschooling list born! was RE: [unschoolingbasics] this
> list
>
> Here is the link for Rachell's new unschooling group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/?yguid=88692815
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnEliteUnschooling/?yguid=88692815>
>
> We also have a Consensual Living yahoogroup for families who live by
> consent: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consensual-living/> It is not
> exclusively an Unschooling group. However, it is a respectful
> parenting group. It is not a TCS group.
>
> There is also an uncensored unschooling group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freethinking_unschoolers/?
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freethinking_unschoolers/?>
> yguid=140240070 CAUTION: It is NOT for the faint-of-heart.
>
> And there is the AlwaysUnschooled list for those who are Radically
> Unschooling young children:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/?yguid=140240070
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysUnschooled/?yguid=140240070>
>
> Something for everyone. :-)
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 - Release Date: 6/30/2006