Swiss newbie again
seccotine_ch
Reading you is really like taking a big deep breath of fresh
oxygen ... Love that.
I have a question though (only one ? haha, lots of them, actually,
but well, I'll begin with this one)
Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice day
in and day out ? I really don't know how to say that (because my
English is not good enough for that), but though I really love my
kids, and though I believe from my brain and my guts that they need
and deserve unconditional love from me as well as gentle parenting,
I can be really mean and harsh with them sometimes (with me too, by
the way). Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in a
completely irrational way.
Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your head
to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
you might have without even thinking ?
Anyway, once again, thanks for your great words, it's my new evening
addiction and it feels really good.
Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her question
oxygen ... Love that.
I have a question though (only one ? haha, lots of them, actually,
but well, I'll begin with this one)
Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice day
in and day out ? I really don't know how to say that (because my
English is not good enough for that), but though I really love my
kids, and though I believe from my brain and my guts that they need
and deserve unconditional love from me as well as gentle parenting,
I can be really mean and harsh with them sometimes (with me too, by
the way). Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in a
completely irrational way.
Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your head
to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
you might have without even thinking ?
Anyway, once again, thanks for your great words, it's my new evening
addiction and it feels really good.
Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her question
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
Reading you is really like taking a big deep breath of fresh
oxygen ... Love that.
I have a question though (only one ? haha, lots of them, actually,
but well, I'll begin with this one)
Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice day
in and day out ? I really don't know how to say that (because my
English is not good enough for that), but though I really love my
kids, and though I believe from my brain and my guts that they need
and deserve unconditional love from me as well as gentle parenting,
I can be really mean and harsh with them sometimes (with me too, by
the way). Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in a
completely irrational way.
Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your head
to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
you might have without even thinking ?
Anyway, once again, thanks for your great words, it's my new evening
addiction and it feels really good.
Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her question
-=-=-=-=--=-
Understood---and easily! <g>
No! I get crabby and hot (I live in Columbia, SC! <g>). I don't always
get enough sleep. I forget to eat.
But it gets better and easier every day.
There's a lot of tongue-biting and deep-breathing and thinking before
reacting. But it's amazing how much better you get at things when you
think about them and DO them!
My goal is to be a better parent. Not better than other parents. Not
better than my parents---although that's certainly possible. But to be
better than I was. To be a *better* parent. I know I can always get
better.
Some people will stop at becoming even remotely better than their own
parents were. I know lots of those! Or better than the neighbors are to
their children. But I know *I* can be better than I am *now*---so I
work towards that goal.
I don't spank any more (that stopped when Cameron five, I think). I
hardly ever yell---and I'm a yeller. I *do* get frustrated and
irrational sometimes. But the more aware and mindful you are, the more
aware and mindful you are! <bwg>
Your children will be older every day---every minute. And if you can
stop---just a *second*---before speaking or reacting, you *will* become
more like the parent you'd like to be---the parent you wish you'd had!
You can do it! Patience! Breathe!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
Reading you is really like taking a big deep breath of fresh
oxygen ... Love that.
I have a question though (only one ? haha, lots of them, actually,
but well, I'll begin with this one)
Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice day
in and day out ? I really don't know how to say that (because my
English is not good enough for that), but though I really love my
kids, and though I believe from my brain and my guts that they need
and deserve unconditional love from me as well as gentle parenting,
I can be really mean and harsh with them sometimes (with me too, by
the way). Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in a
completely irrational way.
Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your head
to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
you might have without even thinking ?
Anyway, once again, thanks for your great words, it's my new evening
addiction and it feels really good.
Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her question
-=-=-=-=--=-
Understood---and easily! <g>
No! I get crabby and hot (I live in Columbia, SC! <g>). I don't always
get enough sleep. I forget to eat.
But it gets better and easier every day.
There's a lot of tongue-biting and deep-breathing and thinking before
reacting. But it's amazing how much better you get at things when you
think about them and DO them!
My goal is to be a better parent. Not better than other parents. Not
better than my parents---although that's certainly possible. But to be
better than I was. To be a *better* parent. I know I can always get
better.
Some people will stop at becoming even remotely better than their own
parents were. I know lots of those! Or better than the neighbors are to
their children. But I know *I* can be better than I am *now*---so I
work towards that goal.
I don't spank any more (that stopped when Cameron five, I think). I
hardly ever yell---and I'm a yeller. I *do* get frustrated and
irrational sometimes. But the more aware and mindful you are, the more
aware and mindful you are! <bwg>
Your children will be older every day---every minute. And if you can
stop---just a *second*---before speaking or reacting, you *will* become
more like the parent you'd like to be---the parent you wish you'd had!
You can do it! Patience! Breathe!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Melissa
well, I understand your question. Alas, I am not evolved enough (or
liberated enough) yet. I am getting better daily, because there is a
series of things you can do to get better. The first step is
realizing it is a problem ;-) Which you have done, me too. Then I
moved to apologizing to my children, rather than trying to justify my
reactions. Now I am happy to say that after months of doing that, we
are finally starting to see me come to the place where at least half
of my poor reactions have disappeared. I still have bad days, and
sometimes still become harsh, but I more often say "Guys, I'm really
starting to lose my temper, and I need some time to relax!" Or even
just "I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW!" Which I think is healthy for them to
know, the important thing for OUR family is letting them know that
they did not do anything wrong, I just don't have the tools yet. The
cool thing is that they all know that *I'm* learning too, and I'm
open to suggestions.
Having seen all these great changes, I am confident that sooner
(rather than later) I will be mostly gentle mom. But everyone does
have bad days, and I think it's important to model how to react
appropriately, and model letting your needs be known. I know other
moms will have much wisdom here, I am new to this also, maybe eight
months, even though I've always tried to be an attached parent and
attending to needs, not always the mindful parent that is discussed
here.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
liberated enough) yet. I am getting better daily, because there is a
series of things you can do to get better. The first step is
realizing it is a problem ;-) Which you have done, me too. Then I
moved to apologizing to my children, rather than trying to justify my
reactions. Now I am happy to say that after months of doing that, we
are finally starting to see me come to the place where at least half
of my poor reactions have disappeared. I still have bad days, and
sometimes still become harsh, but I more often say "Guys, I'm really
starting to lose my temper, and I need some time to relax!" Or even
just "I AM SO MAD RIGHT NOW!" Which I think is healthy for them to
know, the important thing for OUR family is letting them know that
they did not do anything wrong, I just don't have the tools yet. The
cool thing is that they all know that *I'm* learning too, and I'm
open to suggestions.
Having seen all these great changes, I am confident that sooner
(rather than later) I will be mostly gentle mom. But everyone does
have bad days, and I think it's important to model how to react
appropriately, and model letting your needs be known. I know other
moms will have much wisdom here, I am new to this also, maybe eight
months, even though I've always tried to be an attached parent and
attending to needs, not always the mindful parent that is discussed
here.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jun 16, 2006, at 5:24 PM, seccotine_ch wrote:
> Reading you is really like taking a big deep breath of fresh
> oxygen ... Love that.
>
> I have a question though (only one ? haha, lots of them, actually,
> but well, I'll begin with this one)
>
> Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice day
> in and day out ? I really don't know how to say that (because my
> English is not good enough for that), but though I really love my
> kids, and though I believe from my brain and my guts that they need
> and deserve unconditional love from me as well as gentle parenting,
> I can be really mean and harsh with them sometimes (with me too, by
> the way). Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in a
> completely irrational way.
>
> Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your head
> to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
> the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
> something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
> you might have without even thinking ?
>
> Anyway, once again, thanks for your great words, it's my new evening
> addiction and it feels really good.
>
> Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her question
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 16, 2006, at 6:24 PM, seccotine_ch wrote:
The goal is to do better. The goal is to be more mindful and make
better choices.
But we all make mistakes. We all get too tired and say and do things
we shouldn't.
Pam has a good way of expressing it: Always give yourself two
choices. And then choose the better one.
But of course we'll sometimes even fail at giving ourselves two
choices. ;-)
But the goal is to focus on doing better. The list is to help us
focus on what better looks like so we know where we're headed and
why :-)
letting go of control and being their partner.
Do you have a recent problem you'd like to post. It's often more
helpful to see the new thinking applied to a specific problem rather
than just talking about the theory! :-)
that there were better choices we could have made -- even if we
couldn't see them at the time.
People too often feel that if they can't be perfect then they're bad.
It's more helpful to *know* we aren't perfect and that the goal is
always to try to do better.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Do you really succeed in putting this philosophy into practice dayQuick answer is no! :-)
> in and day out ?
The goal is to do better. The goal is to be more mindful and make
better choices.
But we all make mistakes. We all get too tired and say and do things
we shouldn't.
Pam has a good way of expressing it: Always give yourself two
choices. And then choose the better one.
But of course we'll sometimes even fail at giving ourselves two
choices. ;-)
But the goal is to focus on doing better. The list is to help us
focus on what better looks like so we know where we're headed and
why :-)
> Some of their reactions can make me quite crazy, in aThat often comes from a need to control. Part of mindful parenting is
> completely irrational way.
letting go of control and being their partner.
Do you have a recent problem you'd like to post. It's often more
helpful to see the new thinking applied to a specific problem rather
than just talking about the theory! :-)
> Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your headNot always, no. We should expect to fail sometimes but we should see
> to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
> the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ?
that there were better choices we could have made -- even if we
couldn't see them at the time.
People too often feel that if they can't be perfect then they're bad.
It's more helpful to *know* we aren't perfect and that the goal is
always to try to do better.
> Helen, hoping that somebody will understand her questionYour English is coming across just fine! :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Your children will be older every day---every minute. And if you can
stop---just a *second*---before speaking or reacting, you *will*
become
more like the parent you'd like to be---the parent you wish you'd had!
-=-=-=-=-
Responding to my own post...
By being the best mom I can be today and trying to be a better mom
tomorrow, I am modeling working at being a better parent. Doing *just*
that is a good goal, but an even better goal is having children who
will be better parents than I could ever be. They will start with less
baggage than I had---fewer bitten tongues and shallower breaths! <g>
I *know* this because I already see it. Cameron, at 18, is better
already than I was just a few years ago. He has a better center of
emotional balance. He's much further evolved/enlightened! <g>
My lucky, lucky grandchildren! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: kbcdlovejo@...
Your children will be older every day---every minute. And if you can
stop---just a *second*---before speaking or reacting, you *will*
become
more like the parent you'd like to be---the parent you wish you'd had!
-=-=-=-=-
Responding to my own post...
By being the best mom I can be today and trying to be a better mom
tomorrow, I am modeling working at being a better parent. Doing *just*
that is a good goal, but an even better goal is having children who
will be better parents than I could ever be. They will start with less
baggage than I had---fewer bitten tongues and shallower breaths! <g>
I *know* this because I already see it. Cameron, at 18, is better
already than I was just a few years ago. He has a better center of
emotional balance. He's much further evolved/enlightened! <g>
My lucky, lucky grandchildren! <g>
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 16, 2006, at 3:24 PM, seccotine_ch wrote:
I have normal ups and downs of emotion - I get angry, I get sad, I
get stressed and my usual reaction to all of those tends to be
impatience.
But, I'm past the point of reverting to any conventional parenting
methods. It helps that I didn't have a lot of parent-voices in my
head - my mom, especially, was not very conventional, herself. I was
never spanked and "punishment" was, "Go in your room until you feel
in control of yourself, please." Not too bad for the 1950's <G>.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Is there a step where you are *liberated* enough inside of your headYes.
> to treat your children as they deserve to be, no matter how short
> the night, how hot the weather, how stressed the mum ? Is there
> something you can do to help getting over all these bad reactions
> you might have without even thinking ?
I have normal ups and downs of emotion - I get angry, I get sad, I
get stressed and my usual reaction to all of those tends to be
impatience.
But, I'm past the point of reverting to any conventional parenting
methods. It helps that I didn't have a lot of parent-voices in my
head - my mom, especially, was not very conventional, herself. I was
never spanked and "punishment" was, "Go in your room until you feel
in control of yourself, please." Not too bad for the 1950's <G>.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seccotine_ch
Thank you for your answers :)
I'm glad to read that the *good* reaction will become more and more
natural and that eventually I'll might stop being unfair and mean
with my children. It's a process, all right.
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
My problem is that, when the pressure is high inside me (and it can
be for very small things), I act in complete opposition with what I
believe is true and good (well, I guess that you already understood
this part).
Concrete examples ?
For instance, we are expected somewhere (school for instance, as ds
isn't unschooled yet, or doctor, or dinner at my parents) and we get
late. Shouldn't be a big issue, but for me, it actually becomes one,
I don't know why. So I can deal with that very calmly (good days) or
I can explode and yell on everybody (bad days).
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy. I
KNOW I shoudln't, but I can be sarcastic about it (sorry I can't
translate what I tell him, but I minimize the reasons that make him
cry) or even tell him that he drives me crazy.
I hate myself when I do that. For instance, the other day, I picked
him up at school and asked him to do something with me, instead of
waiting for my husband to go home and do it himself. He began to cry
that he didn't want to - and I became really ... (sorry, can't find
my words) ... hard, speaking in a very severe tone and quite loud.
After that, I thought that it must have been very hard for him, not
only the fact that I was so unsensitive and selfish and mean, but
also that I did it in front of his friends. I thought that it must
be very hard to have his own mother being so disrespectful (???).
It's not very often, but it's like there are some "blind spots"
where I act in complete contradiction with my strongest beliefs,
where I can't find the resource to step back for a while.
That's why I was anxious to know if, some time, I would be able to
do so even in these occasions. I'm really afraid that these
explosions ruin all the efforts I'm doing the rest of the time (when
I'm saying *efforts* ... it's not always hard, I like being with
them, I find them cool most of the time ;))
Many thanks anyway
Helen
I'm glad to read that the *good* reaction will become more and more
natural and that eventually I'll might stop being unfair and mean
with my children. It's a process, all right.
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
My problem is that, when the pressure is high inside me (and it can
be for very small things), I act in complete opposition with what I
believe is true and good (well, I guess that you already understood
this part).
Concrete examples ?
For instance, we are expected somewhere (school for instance, as ds
isn't unschooled yet, or doctor, or dinner at my parents) and we get
late. Shouldn't be a big issue, but for me, it actually becomes one,
I don't know why. So I can deal with that very calmly (good days) or
I can explode and yell on everybody (bad days).
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy. I
KNOW I shoudln't, but I can be sarcastic about it (sorry I can't
translate what I tell him, but I minimize the reasons that make him
cry) or even tell him that he drives me crazy.
I hate myself when I do that. For instance, the other day, I picked
him up at school and asked him to do something with me, instead of
waiting for my husband to go home and do it himself. He began to cry
that he didn't want to - and I became really ... (sorry, can't find
my words) ... hard, speaking in a very severe tone and quite loud.
After that, I thought that it must have been very hard for him, not
only the fact that I was so unsensitive and selfish and mean, but
also that I did it in front of his friends. I thought that it must
be very hard to have his own mother being so disrespectful (???).
It's not very often, but it's like there are some "blind spots"
where I act in complete contradiction with my strongest beliefs,
where I can't find the resource to step back for a while.
That's why I was anxious to know if, some time, I would be able to
do so even in these occasions. I'm really afraid that these
explosions ruin all the efforts I'm doing the rest of the time (when
I'm saying *efforts* ... it's not always hard, I like being with
them, I find them cool most of the time ;))
Many thanks anyway
Helen
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
I'm glad to read that the *good* reaction will become more and more
natural and that eventually I'll might stop being unfair and mean
with my children. It's a process, all right.
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
--=-=-
It seems that way because we've worked really hard at it. Some had to
work harder. It depends on the baggage you're carrying. Getting rid of
your parents' voices (if they were the same way you're acting) helps a
lot!
The more mindful I tried to be, the more mindful I became. I asked the
boys to help me too---if they saw me getting edgy, they could tell me.
That helped me too.
I still snap sometimes. I snapped at Duncan this past week, but I
apologized later. He said that was OK---he could tell I was a little
stressed. <g> Sweet boy. And patient with me!
-=-=-=-
My problem is that, when the pressure is high inside me (and it can
be for very small things), I act in complete opposition with what I
believe is true and good (well, I guess that you already understood
this part).
-=-=-=-
Do you feel it coming on? You might like to try "Rescue
Remedy"---drops that can lower that pressure.
-==-=-=-=-
Concrete examples ?
For instance, we are expected somewhere (school for instance, as ds
isn't unschooled yet, or doctor, or dinner at my parents) and we get
late. Shouldn't be a big issue, but for me, it actually becomes one,
I don't know why. So I can deal with that very calmly (good days) or
I can explode and yell on everybody (bad days).
--=-=-=-
I hate to be late too. But if you *know* it *could* happen, ask
yourself what would be the worst thing that could happen---you'd be
late? <g> Deep breaths, a few drops of Rescue Remedy.
-=-=-=-=-
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy. I
KNOW I shoudln't, but I can be sarcastic about it (sorry I can't
translate what I tell him, but I minimize the reasons that make him
cry) or even tell him that he drives me crazy.
-=-=-=-
Bite your tongue and think what would you do without him. That helps
me a LOT. If he were no longer here, wouldn't you miss that crying?
-=-=-=-=-
I hate myself when I do that. For instance, the other day, I picked
him up at school and asked him to do something with me, instead of
waiting for my husband to go home and do it himself. He began to cry
that he didn't want to - and I became really ... (sorry, can't find
my words) ... hard, speaking in a very severe tone and quite loud.
After that, I thought that it must have been very hard for him, not
only the fact that I was so unsensitive and selfish and mean, but
also that I did it in front of his friends. I thought that it must
be very hard to have his own mother being so disrespectful (???).
-=-=-=-
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
-=-=-=-
It's not very often, but it's like there are some "blind spots"
where I act in complete contradiction with my strongest beliefs,
where I can't find the resource to step back for a while.
-=-=-=-
It'll get better. Keep working.
-=-=-=-
That's why I was anxious to know if, some time, I would be able to
do so even in these occasions. I'm really afraid that these
explosions ruin all the efforts I'm doing the rest of the time (when
I'm saying *efforts* ... it's not always hard, I like being with
them, I find them cool most of the time ;))
-=-=-=-=-
As to whether you will be able to do so even on these occasions: Do
you want to?
Then DO! <g>
And although you're not spanking, you might find Pam's
[email protected] e-list helpful. The folks there can help
give you tools to deal with the anger in a more peaceful manner.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
I'm glad to read that the *good* reaction will become more and more
natural and that eventually I'll might stop being unfair and mean
with my children. It's a process, all right.
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
--=-=-
It seems that way because we've worked really hard at it. Some had to
work harder. It depends on the baggage you're carrying. Getting rid of
your parents' voices (if they were the same way you're acting) helps a
lot!
The more mindful I tried to be, the more mindful I became. I asked the
boys to help me too---if they saw me getting edgy, they could tell me.
That helped me too.
I still snap sometimes. I snapped at Duncan this past week, but I
apologized later. He said that was OK---he could tell I was a little
stressed. <g> Sweet boy. And patient with me!
-=-=-=-
My problem is that, when the pressure is high inside me (and it can
be for very small things), I act in complete opposition with what I
believe is true and good (well, I guess that you already understood
this part).
-=-=-=-
Do you feel it coming on? You might like to try "Rescue
Remedy"---drops that can lower that pressure.
-==-=-=-=-
Concrete examples ?
For instance, we are expected somewhere (school for instance, as ds
isn't unschooled yet, or doctor, or dinner at my parents) and we get
late. Shouldn't be a big issue, but for me, it actually becomes one,
I don't know why. So I can deal with that very calmly (good days) or
I can explode and yell on everybody (bad days).
--=-=-=-
I hate to be late too. But if you *know* it *could* happen, ask
yourself what would be the worst thing that could happen---you'd be
late? <g> Deep breaths, a few drops of Rescue Remedy.
-=-=-=-=-
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy. I
KNOW I shoudln't, but I can be sarcastic about it (sorry I can't
translate what I tell him, but I minimize the reasons that make him
cry) or even tell him that he drives me crazy.
-=-=-=-
Bite your tongue and think what would you do without him. That helps
me a LOT. If he were no longer here, wouldn't you miss that crying?
-=-=-=-=-
I hate myself when I do that. For instance, the other day, I picked
him up at school and asked him to do something with me, instead of
waiting for my husband to go home and do it himself. He began to cry
that he didn't want to - and I became really ... (sorry, can't find
my words) ... hard, speaking in a very severe tone and quite loud.
After that, I thought that it must have been very hard for him, not
only the fact that I was so unsensitive and selfish and mean, but
also that I did it in front of his friends. I thought that it must
be very hard to have his own mother being so disrespectful (???).
-=-=-=-
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
-=-=-=-
It's not very often, but it's like there are some "blind spots"
where I act in complete contradiction with my strongest beliefs,
where I can't find the resource to step back for a while.
-=-=-=-
It'll get better. Keep working.
-=-=-=-
That's why I was anxious to know if, some time, I would be able to
do so even in these occasions. I'm really afraid that these
explosions ruin all the efforts I'm doing the rest of the time (when
I'm saying *efforts* ... it's not always hard, I like being with
them, I find them cool most of the time ;))
-=-=-=-=-
As to whether you will be able to do so even on these occasions: Do
you want to?
Then DO! <g>
And although you're not spanking, you might find Pam's
[email protected] e-list helpful. The folks there can help
give you tools to deal with the anger in a more peaceful manner.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Thank you for all these posts. They are helping me greatly!
Alex
Alex
seccotine_ch
*~*~*~*
- I wrote :
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
- Kelly replied :
It seems that way because we've worked really hard at it. Some had
to work harder. It depends on the baggage you're carrying. Getting
rid of your parents' voices (if they were the same way you're
acting) helps a lot!
- My answer :
Yes, I'm sure you worked hard at it and certainly didn't mean to
minimize that. It's good to read it, still, because it gives me
confidence in my ability to get there :)
*~*~*~*
- I wrote :
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy.
- Kelly replied :
Bite your tongue and think what would you do without him. That helps
me a LOT. If he were no longer here, wouldn't you miss that crying?
- My answer :
Many thanks for that. It's something I often think about, because
life can be so unpredictable. Anyway, I never tried to remember that
in the heat of the moment - thank you.
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
- My answer :
I do apologize (though I still feel a bit uncomfortable with it,
because my father used to do it too, and I hated it - I was still
angry, I certainly didn't want to make peace with him, but what
could I do when I saw him so sorry about what he did ?)
Most of the time, I don't see it coming, though. It explodes and
surprises me almost as much as them.
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
And although you're not spanking, you might find Pam's
[email protected] e-list helpful.
My answer : Thank you for the link.
*~*~*~*
And once more, thank you for your answers, it helps me a lot. I
haven't been so inspired by messages for years - and it feels good.
You really are talking to my cells.
Helen
- I wrote :
Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
- Kelly replied :
It seems that way because we've worked really hard at it. Some had
to work harder. It depends on the baggage you're carrying. Getting
rid of your parents' voices (if they were the same way you're
acting) helps a lot!
- My answer :
Yes, I'm sure you worked hard at it and certainly didn't mean to
minimize that. It's good to read it, still, because it gives me
confidence in my ability to get there :)
*~*~*~*
- I wrote :
Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy.
- Kelly replied :
Bite your tongue and think what would you do without him. That helps
me a LOT. If he were no longer here, wouldn't you miss that crying?
- My answer :
Many thanks for that. It's something I often think about, because
life can be so unpredictable. Anyway, I never tried to remember that
in the heat of the moment - thank you.
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
- My answer :
I do apologize (though I still feel a bit uncomfortable with it,
because my father used to do it too, and I hated it - I was still
angry, I certainly didn't want to make peace with him, but what
could I do when I saw him so sorry about what he did ?)
Most of the time, I don't see it coming, though. It explodes and
surprises me almost as much as them.
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
And although you're not spanking, you might find Pam's
[email protected] e-list helpful.
My answer : Thank you for the link.
*~*~*~*
And once more, thank you for your answers, it helps me a lot. I
haven't been so inspired by messages for years - and it feels good.
You really are talking to my cells.
Helen
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
- My answer :
I do apologize (though I still feel a bit uncomfortable with it,
because my father used to do it too, and I hated it - I was still
angry, I certainly didn't want to make peace with him, but what
could I do when I saw him so sorry about what he did ?)
Most of the time, I don't see it coming, though. It explodes and
surprises me almost as much as them.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-===-=-=-=-=-=-
My mother apologizes and says she'll never do it again.
She does it again and again and again.
And apologizes again and again and again. And swears she won't do it
again. Riiiight.
The trust is gone. I don't believe her any more.
And now---finally---I don't put myself in a position to allow her to
do it any more.
No one has to accept an apology. And one made without sincerity
doesn't count anyway! <g> Maybe you felt your father was insincere?
Deep breaths! <g> Deeeper!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-===-======--=-=-=-=-
*~*~*~*
And once more, thank you for your answers, it helps me a lot. I
haven't been so inspired by messages for years - and it feels good.
You really are talking to my cells.
-=-=-=-=--=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Talking to your cells? Cool.
Good. It's hard, but many of us know that it's possible. Heal
yourself, be the parent you wish you'd had, and you will be a better
parent.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
*~*~*~*
- Kelly wrote :
Apologize.
Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
you're edgy! <g>
- My answer :
I do apologize (though I still feel a bit uncomfortable with it,
because my father used to do it too, and I hated it - I was still
angry, I certainly didn't want to make peace with him, but what
could I do when I saw him so sorry about what he did ?)
Most of the time, I don't see it coming, though. It explodes and
surprises me almost as much as them.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-===-=-=-=-=-=-
My mother apologizes and says she'll never do it again.
She does it again and again and again.
And apologizes again and again and again. And swears she won't do it
again. Riiiight.
The trust is gone. I don't believe her any more.
And now---finally---I don't put myself in a position to allow her to
do it any more.
No one has to accept an apology. And one made without sincerity
doesn't count anyway! <g> Maybe you felt your father was insincere?
Deep breaths! <g> Deeeper!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-===-======--=-=-=-=-
*~*~*~*
And once more, thank you for your answers, it helps me a lot. I
haven't been so inspired by messages for years - and it feels good.
You really are talking to my cells.
-=-=-=-=--=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Talking to your cells? Cool.
Good. It's hard, but many of us know that it's possible. Heal
yourself, be the parent you wish you'd had, and you will be a better
parent.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
Thank you for this post!
Alex
Alex
----- Original Message -----
From: <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Swiss newbie again
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: seccotine_ch <seccotine@...>
>
> I'm glad to read that the *good* reaction will become more and more
> natural and that eventually I'll might stop being unfair and mean
> with my children. It's a process, all right.
>
> Actually, I'm working on it for years now, but it seems so natural
> for you and so connected with a whole philosophy of life ...
>
> --=-=-
>
> It seems that way because we've worked really hard at it. Some had to
> work harder. It depends on the baggage you're carrying. Getting rid of
> your parents' voices (if they were the same way you're acting) helps a
> lot!
>
> The more mindful I tried to be, the more mindful I became. I asked the
> boys to help me too---if they saw me getting edgy, they could tell me.
> That helped me too.
>
> I still snap sometimes. I snapped at Duncan this past week, but I
> apologized later. He said that was OK---he could tell I was a little
> stressed. <g> Sweet boy. And patient with me!
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> My problem is that, when the pressure is high inside me (and it can
> be for very small things), I act in complete opposition with what I
> believe is true and good (well, I guess that you already understood
> this part).
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Do you feel it coming on? You might like to try "Rescue
> Remedy"---drops that can lower that pressure.
>
> -==-=-=-=-
>
> Concrete examples ?
>
> For instance, we are expected somewhere (school for instance, as ds
> isn't unschooled yet, or doctor, or dinner at my parents) and we get
> late. Shouldn't be a big issue, but for me, it actually becomes one,
> I don't know why. So I can deal with that very calmly (good days) or
> I can explode and yell on everybody (bad days).
>
> --=-=-=-
>
> I hate to be late too. But if you *know* it *could* happen, ask
> yourself what would be the worst thing that could happen---you'd be
> late? <g> Deep breaths, a few drops of Rescue Remedy.
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> Another example : my son can cry in a way that makes me crazy. I
> KNOW I shoudln't, but I can be sarcastic about it (sorry I can't
> translate what I tell him, but I minimize the reasons that make him
> cry) or even tell him that he drives me crazy.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Bite your tongue and think what would you do without him. That helps
> me a LOT. If he were no longer here, wouldn't you miss that crying?
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> I hate myself when I do that. For instance, the other day, I picked
> him up at school and asked him to do something with me, instead of
> waiting for my husband to go home and do it himself. He began to cry
> that he didn't want to - and I became really ... (sorry, can't find
> my words) ... hard, speaking in a very severe tone and quite loud.
> After that, I thought that it must have been very hard for him, not
> only the fact that I was so unsensitive and selfish and mean, but
> also that I did it in front of his friends. I thought that it must
> be very hard to have his own mother being so disrespectful (???).
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> Apologize.
>
> Tell him you're trying to do better/be better. Ask for his help. If
> you're starting to feel out of control, let him know that you need
> space or that you are cranky. He'll keep his distance if he knows
> you're edgy! <g>
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> It's not very often, but it's like there are some "blind spots"
> where I act in complete contradiction with my strongest beliefs,
> where I can't find the resource to step back for a while.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> It'll get better. Keep working.
>
> -=-=-=-
>
> That's why I was anxious to know if, some time, I would be able to
> do so even in these occasions. I'm really afraid that these
> explosions ruin all the efforts I'm doing the rest of the time (when
> I'm saying *efforts* ... it's not always hard, I like being with
> them, I find them cool most of the time ;))
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> As to whether you will be able to do so even on these occasions: Do
> you want to?
>
> Then DO! <g>
>
> And although you're not spanking, you might find Pam's
> [email protected] e-list helpful. The folks there can help
> give you tools to deal with the anger in a more peaceful manner.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> "The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
> matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
> learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
> ~Frank Smith
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
> and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Laura Reinbach
I wanted to second that!! These posts have been really helpful to me
as well. I am going through the same thing so thanks, Helen, for
posting your questions!
Laura
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
as well. I am going through the same thing so thanks, Helen, for
posting your questions!
Laura
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for all these posts. They are helping me greatly!
>
>
> Alex
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Laura Reinbach <laura@...>
I wanted to second that!! These posts have been really helpful to me
as well. I am going through the same thing so thanks, Helen, for
posting your questions!
Laura
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
I wanted to point this out because it happens regularly.
The person with the original question/concern may or may not get
anything out of the discussion at all. It just doesn't hit home.
Sometimes the original poster cuts and runs shortly after posting,
disgusted with us. Sometimes she sits and struggles for quite a while.
Sometimes she leaves and comes back a few weeks/months later after
chewing on it some more.
But because it's a general discussion of a situation or problem, many
other posters and/or lurkers come away with new insights. Sometimes
light bulbs go off everywhere.
We try not to make it personal. We're responding to the points made.
Unless we've met you at a conference or in our home towns, we don't
know you at all. It's really not personal. We get nit-picky about
"semantics" because the way you refer to things and the words you use
can change the way you act and think. It *really* is important.
To us, the owners and moderators, unschooling is not just about not
doing school. It goes deeper than that. We all believe that it's a way
of life, a philosophy, that encompasses every thing we and our children
do. It's *knowing* that children are natural learners, in every
way---not just academically.
If you see them as doing their very best with the tools and and
abilities that they have *now*, it'll free you up to see what all they
are capable of doing without being "taught." That's why we dig deeper
than just academics, because we know it works. We see it in our own
children and in each others' kids.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: Laura Reinbach <laura@...>
I wanted to second that!! These posts have been really helpful to me
as well. I am going through the same thing so thanks, Helen, for
posting your questions!
Laura
--- In [email protected], "Brian & Alexandra
Polikowsky" <polykow@...> wrote:
>-=-=-=-
> Thank you for all these posts. They are helping me greatly!
I wanted to point this out because it happens regularly.
The person with the original question/concern may or may not get
anything out of the discussion at all. It just doesn't hit home.
Sometimes the original poster cuts and runs shortly after posting,
disgusted with us. Sometimes she sits and struggles for quite a while.
Sometimes she leaves and comes back a few weeks/months later after
chewing on it some more.
But because it's a general discussion of a situation or problem, many
other posters and/or lurkers come away with new insights. Sometimes
light bulbs go off everywhere.
We try not to make it personal. We're responding to the points made.
Unless we've met you at a conference or in our home towns, we don't
know you at all. It's really not personal. We get nit-picky about
"semantics" because the way you refer to things and the words you use
can change the way you act and think. It *really* is important.
To us, the owners and moderators, unschooling is not just about not
doing school. It goes deeper than that. We all believe that it's a way
of life, a philosophy, that encompasses every thing we and our children
do. It's *knowing* that children are natural learners, in every
way---not just academically.
If you see them as doing their very best with the tools and and
abilities that they have *now*, it'll free you up to see what all they
are capable of doing without being "taught." That's why we dig deeper
than just academics, because we know it works. We see it in our own
children and in each others' kids.
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
seccotine_ch
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Kelly wrote :
To us, the owners and moderators, unschooling is not just about not
doing school. It goes deeper than that. We all believe that it's a
way of life, a philosophy, that encompasses every thing we and our
children do. It's *knowing* that children are natural learners, in
every way---not just academically.
If you see them as doing their very best with the tools and
abilities that they have *now*, it'll free you up to see what all
they are capable of doing without being "taught." That's why we dig
deeper than just academics, because we know it works. We see it in
our own children and in each others' kids.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I remember that, the first time I seriously considered unschooling
my children, I felt a big flow of energy inside of me. It was as if
I had touched a crucial point, something I HAD to do. For reasons
too long to explain, it didn't last, and for months, I couldn't feel
that vibe again.
I'm convinced that we have a kind of inner compass, and that we can
tell what's good (at least for ourselves) from what's not. That
there are such things as intrinsically "good" things - the things
that bring life and joy and togetherness (???)and bad ones - the
ones that destroy and that split us from our inner self / our kids /
etc. (That's the point where I become SO frustrated because my words
betray my thoughts and I'm really afraid of being misunderstood)
So my kid began school and did like it ... three days ! I kept
sending him, because I didn't really know what else to do and also
because I was 8-months pregnant and needed rest (not a very good
reason, I agree). As school is only part-time, I became used to
spend time with him (since then, I was studying and working, so his
sister and him were at daycare) and I started to think again ...
I'm not sure that I would be the best mom in town but I'm totally
certain that unschooling, even as difficult as it looks, would do us
good. Like you said, and that's was were this long speech was
supposed to bring me, it's a whole, it goes further than just
academics - and I hope I wont be disappointed, because I really
expect quite a lot from this change.
I have the feeling that, since my kids were born, I have maintained
two levels in my parenting, attachment parenting in one hand,
and "distance parenting" in the other. I knew that I was
quite "adapted" to the mainstream, and I was afraid of trying more
radical things, so I did a bit of both and hoped that my kids and I
would find a balance like that.
I found that these compromises didn't work that well. Something
prevents me from being the parent I really want to be. Of course, a
big part of it is the way I have been parented myself, the inner
voices I still have, my own anger issues, all these things. But I
wonder if there isn't something else, I wonder if it wouldn't be
easier to dive in the big pool than to go back and forth the whole
time.
Well. I can't put this in words properly. I hope that you got the
general idea and, anyway, I thank the people who are still reading
my broken English.
Helen
Kelly wrote :
To us, the owners and moderators, unschooling is not just about not
doing school. It goes deeper than that. We all believe that it's a
way of life, a philosophy, that encompasses every thing we and our
children do. It's *knowing* that children are natural learners, in
every way---not just academically.
If you see them as doing their very best with the tools and
abilities that they have *now*, it'll free you up to see what all
they are capable of doing without being "taught." That's why we dig
deeper than just academics, because we know it works. We see it in
our own children and in each others' kids.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I remember that, the first time I seriously considered unschooling
my children, I felt a big flow of energy inside of me. It was as if
I had touched a crucial point, something I HAD to do. For reasons
too long to explain, it didn't last, and for months, I couldn't feel
that vibe again.
I'm convinced that we have a kind of inner compass, and that we can
tell what's good (at least for ourselves) from what's not. That
there are such things as intrinsically "good" things - the things
that bring life and joy and togetherness (???)and bad ones - the
ones that destroy and that split us from our inner self / our kids /
etc. (That's the point where I become SO frustrated because my words
betray my thoughts and I'm really afraid of being misunderstood)
So my kid began school and did like it ... three days ! I kept
sending him, because I didn't really know what else to do and also
because I was 8-months pregnant and needed rest (not a very good
reason, I agree). As school is only part-time, I became used to
spend time with him (since then, I was studying and working, so his
sister and him were at daycare) and I started to think again ...
I'm not sure that I would be the best mom in town but I'm totally
certain that unschooling, even as difficult as it looks, would do us
good. Like you said, and that's was were this long speech was
supposed to bring me, it's a whole, it goes further than just
academics - and I hope I wont be disappointed, because I really
expect quite a lot from this change.
I have the feeling that, since my kids were born, I have maintained
two levels in my parenting, attachment parenting in one hand,
and "distance parenting" in the other. I knew that I was
quite "adapted" to the mainstream, and I was afraid of trying more
radical things, so I did a bit of both and hoped that my kids and I
would find a balance like that.
I found that these compromises didn't work that well. Something
prevents me from being the parent I really want to be. Of course, a
big part of it is the way I have been parented myself, the inner
voices I still have, my own anger issues, all these things. But I
wonder if there isn't something else, I wonder if it wouldn't be
easier to dive in the big pool than to go back and forth the whole
time.
Well. I can't put this in words properly. I hope that you got the
general idea and, anyway, I thank the people who are still reading
my broken English.
Helen