is it enough?
squeakybiscuit
My kids and I have bounced back and forth from unschooling, to
curriculum to cyber schools throughout the years. They are happiest
when unschooling, but I always chicken out and make them do work
before too long.
My 8 year old reads alot of books on her own, on a variety of
topics. She just learned to read, so I guess she is still excited
about it. I can't see her doing any math without being pushed
though. The only writing she does on her own is at runescape.com to
chat with her friends.
My 14 year old will read fiction and non-fiction, but doesn't do any
kind of math. He writes emails and a little for website.
My 12 year old doesn't want to do anything but play video games. The
only book I could get him to read is The Anarchist Cookbook, and
although he is interested, none of the projects in there are safe
enough to do.
How could that be enough? How will they pass their GED with no
formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
educational on their own.
curriculum to cyber schools throughout the years. They are happiest
when unschooling, but I always chicken out and make them do work
before too long.
My 8 year old reads alot of books on her own, on a variety of
topics. She just learned to read, so I guess she is still excited
about it. I can't see her doing any math without being pushed
though. The only writing she does on her own is at runescape.com to
chat with her friends.
My 14 year old will read fiction and non-fiction, but doesn't do any
kind of math. He writes emails and a little for website.
My 12 year old doesn't want to do anything but play video games. The
only book I could get him to read is The Anarchist Cookbook, and
although he is interested, none of the projects in there are safe
enough to do.
How could that be enough? How will they pass their GED with no
formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
educational on their own.
Ren Allen
"How could that be enough? How will they pass their GED with no
formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
educational on their own."
And why would they need to?
Until you see what they do as exactly ENOUGH, they are going to feel
that hesitation and angst! Why would they EVER need to pass a GED?
You're waiting for them to choose a certain kind of learning and
you're missing all the very cool learning going on right in front of
your nose.
It's not "only" video games. It's VIDEO GAMES, one of the BEST ways to
learn!!!:)
Don't diminish what they love with all the judgements. Every bit of
pushing or prodding you've done, has UNDONE all the unschooling. They
can't possibly trust that they really have freedom.
Until there is trust, unschooling just won't unfold joyfully.
I don't do things that look "educational" in my day-to-day activities,
somehow I can make money and be functional in life!!
Read "A Whole New Mind" by Daniel Pink and then get back to me on the
whole video game thing.
PLAY is how people learn. TRUST PLAY. That's the best advice I can
give you. Creative thinking is spawned from PLAY...a creative problem
solver is best suited for success in today's world.
This article was shared at another list today, go read it, PLEASE!!
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060424-000004.xml
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
educational on their own."
And why would they need to?
Until you see what they do as exactly ENOUGH, they are going to feel
that hesitation and angst! Why would they EVER need to pass a GED?
You're waiting for them to choose a certain kind of learning and
you're missing all the very cool learning going on right in front of
your nose.
It's not "only" video games. It's VIDEO GAMES, one of the BEST ways to
learn!!!:)
Don't diminish what they love with all the judgements. Every bit of
pushing or prodding you've done, has UNDONE all the unschooling. They
can't possibly trust that they really have freedom.
Until there is trust, unschooling just won't unfold joyfully.
I don't do things that look "educational" in my day-to-day activities,
somehow I can make money and be functional in life!!
Read "A Whole New Mind" by Daniel Pink and then get back to me on the
whole video game thing.
PLAY is how people learn. TRUST PLAY. That's the best advice I can
give you. Creative thinking is spawned from PLAY...a creative problem
solver is best suited for success in today's world.
This article was shared at another list today, go read it, PLEASE!!
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060424-000004.xml
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
squeakybiscuit
I feel the GED is important because you need a diploma or ged to get
financial aid for college in my state.
My 14 year old wants to get a loan for his own ice cream truck and
work for himself when he turns 18. If that goal doesn't change, then
I guess he won't need a ged, but the other two will. He is starting
his own ebay business in the meantime until he is old enough to get
a loan. I guess he will learn enough from that project to acheive
his goal.
But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change his
mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
I realize that you can learn alot from video games- but there has
got to be more. There aren't many jobs it prepares you for.
The kids in your article were getting a diploma. I don't have a
school like that around here that will give a diploma for that kind
of education.
What do your kids do all day? What do you think they are learning
from it? (everyone)
Erin
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
financial aid for college in my state.
My 14 year old wants to get a loan for his own ice cream truck and
work for himself when he turns 18. If that goal doesn't change, then
I guess he won't need a ged, but the other two will. He is starting
his own ebay business in the meantime until he is old enough to get
a loan. I guess he will learn enough from that project to acheive
his goal.
But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change his
mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
I realize that you can learn alot from video games- but there has
got to be more. There aren't many jobs it prepares you for.
The kids in your article were getting a diploma. I don't have a
school like that around here that will give a diploma for that kind
of education.
What do your kids do all day? What do you think they are learning
from it? (everyone)
Erin
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>feel
> "How could that be enough? How will they pass their GED with no
> formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
> educational on their own."
>
> And why would they need to?
> Until you see what they do as exactly ENOUGH, they are going to
> that hesitation and angst! Why would they EVER need to pass a GED?of
> You're waiting for them to choose a certain kind of learning and
> you're missing all the very cool learning going on right in front
> your nose.ways to
>
> It's not "only" video games. It's VIDEO GAMES, one of the BEST
> learn!!!:)They
> Don't diminish what they love with all the judgements. Every bit of
> pushing or prodding you've done, has UNDONE all the unschooling.
> can't possibly trust that they really have freedom.activities,
> Until there is trust, unschooling just won't unfold joyfully.
>
> I don't do things that look "educational" in my day-to-day
> somehow I can make money and be functional in life!!the
> Read "A Whole New Mind" by Daniel Pink and then get back to me on
> whole video game thing.problem
>
> PLAY is how people learn. TRUST PLAY. That's the best advice I can
> give you. Creative thinking is spawned from PLAY...a creative
> solver is best suited for success in today's world.
>
> This article was shared at another list today, go read it, PLEASE!!
> http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20060424-000004.xml
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/7/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
them out? No; you use math in everyday context. You balance your
checkbook (or not) you measure food (or not), you weigh yourself (or
not), you judge distance to know when to turn your signal on when
driving (or not), you count knitting stitches or cross stitch stitches
(or not), you figure out if you have enough pocket change for the toll
(or not) See, you can choose to do math, so also should your
children. They'll learn it when they need it.
challenged yourself to find a way to make them safe? What would it
take to do one of those projects? Is it that they aren't safe enough
or that you don't want to expend the energy to find a way to keep him
safe while he explores this avenue of adventure? I'm not saying
that to berate your or belittle you. I'm saying it because someone
said it to me and it opened up my whole mind to being creative. Mine
wasn't anarchy (although I do have a child who wants to take over the
world) but it was art. I hated the kids doing art because it was so
messy! I was hindering them from doing something that they were
yearning to do because *I* didn't want to clean up after them. I've
had to stop myself from doing the same when they've wanted to cook or
do a science experiment that they've read about. Instead of "It's too
dangerous" think, "How can I make this happen for him?"
diplomas nor GED's from homeschooled kids. And they *are* learning.
It just doesn't look like what learning looks like in school! Just
because it isn't math worksheets and term papers doesn't mean that
they aren't learning!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
>Do you do math? Do you sit down with a page full of problems and work
> My 8 year old reads alot of books on her own, on a variety of
> topics. She just learned to read, so I guess she is still excited
> about it. I can't see her doing any math without being pushed
> though. The only writing she does on her own is at runescape.com to
> chat with her friends.
>
them out? No; you use math in everyday context. You balance your
checkbook (or not) you measure food (or not), you weigh yourself (or
not), you judge distance to know when to turn your signal on when
driving (or not), you count knitting stitches or cross stitch stitches
(or not), you figure out if you have enough pocket change for the toll
(or not) See, you can choose to do math, so also should your
children. They'll learn it when they need it.
> My 14 year old will read fiction and non-fiction, but doesn't do anySounds fun. And ditto on the math.
> kind of math. He writes emails and a little for website.
>Safe enough or are you too frightened to attempt them? What if you
> My 12 year old doesn't want to do anything but play video games. The
> only book I could get him to read is The Anarchist Cookbook, and
> although he is interested, none of the projects in there are safe
> enough to do.
challenged yourself to find a way to make them safe? What would it
take to do one of those projects? Is it that they aren't safe enough
or that you don't want to expend the energy to find a way to keep him
safe while he explores this avenue of adventure? I'm not saying
that to berate your or belittle you. I'm saying it because someone
said it to me and it opened up my whole mind to being creative. Mine
wasn't anarchy (although I do have a child who wants to take over the
world) but it was art. I hated the kids doing art because it was so
messy! I was hindering them from doing something that they were
yearning to do because *I* didn't want to clean up after them. I've
had to stop myself from doing the same when they've wanted to cook or
do a science experiment that they've read about. Instead of "It's too
dangerous" think, "How can I make this happen for him?"
>Do they need a GED? Most likely not. Many colleges are not requiring
> How could that be enough? How will they pass their GED with no
> formal schooling? They don't seem to choose to do anything
> educational on their own.
diplomas nor GED's from homeschooled kids. And they *are* learning.
It just doesn't look like what learning looks like in school! Just
because it isn't math worksheets and term papers doesn't mean that
they aren't learning!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
marji
At 18:19 6/7/2006, you wrote:
from the things they love doing to the exclusion
of anything else is that they may be anticipating
the return to being made to do stuff. They may
be waiting for you to chicken out once again and
put an end to their freedom of choice. But, you
said yourself that they are happiest when
unschooling, and happiness can be the most educational thing of all!
Having said all that, what would do you think it
would look like for them to "choose to do
anything educational"? Are you expecting them to
walk over to the bookshelf and grab a physics
textbook? Or a spelling workbook? Why on earth would they do that?
If you could relax a little with this thing, you
could begin to see how all the things they need
to learn are contained in the passions they
gravitate to (pardon the dangling
preposition!). My 11½-year-old son loves to play
Yu-Gi-Oh, he loves to play World of Warcraft, and
he loves to play various video games. There are
a few TV shows he likes to watch. None of this
stuff would look educational to most folks, but
he learns from everything he does! He is
learning to read, to write, to spell, to
calculate, to understand time, and to solve
problems. He is learning to research and wants
to design his own video games. He's not an avid
book reader; he's just not interested. But, as
we drive down the road he loves to try to read
just about every sign he can, and we talk about
it all. He loves to buy new Yu-Gi-Oh cards, and
he has to figure out how he'll afford to buy what
he wants. He budgets for this. He does amazing
calculations in his head to keep score during YGO
duels! He astounds me!! He has to write
messages to his co-players on WoW on the fly. He
has to read prompts and other information on
video games. He has to navigate around a large
map on WoW. I would be honored and delighted to
help him, if he asks, but he rarely, if ever, does!
A year ago, he was not reading or writing at
all. I had no idea about the kinds of
calculations he was able to do because I don't
test him (of course), but he has an amazing mind for calculation.
If he ever needs to, I have no doubt he will be
able to pass any basic skills test without
breaking a sweat. He has never chosen anything
"educational," and yet he seems quite
educated! And, he's really nice and wonderful to
be with and we NEVER lock horns about what he's
doing. He feels honored and respected, and he
respects me, too. All of this, I believe, stems
from his choices being honored.
Try to see what the educational perks are of the
things your kids love to do. Try to see how
they're absorbing the information they need from
what they love to do. Most of all, try to resist
the urge to disturb their process; let them be
and they will be free to chose more and more
things, and you will be amazed at how "educational" their choices really are!
_.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._
Marji
<http://www.gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
"The animals of this world exist for their own
reasons. They were not made for humans any more
than blacks were made for whites or women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>My kids and I have bounced back and forth from unschooling, toOne reason they may be reluctant to venture away
>curriculum to cyber schools throughout the years. They are happiest
>when unschooling, but I always chicken out and make them do work
>before too long.
from the things they love doing to the exclusion
of anything else is that they may be anticipating
the return to being made to do stuff. They may
be waiting for you to chicken out once again and
put an end to their freedom of choice. But, you
said yourself that they are happiest when
unschooling, and happiness can be the most educational thing of all!
Having said all that, what would do you think it
would look like for them to "choose to do
anything educational"? Are you expecting them to
walk over to the bookshelf and grab a physics
textbook? Or a spelling workbook? Why on earth would they do that?
If you could relax a little with this thing, you
could begin to see how all the things they need
to learn are contained in the passions they
gravitate to (pardon the dangling
preposition!). My 11½-year-old son loves to play
Yu-Gi-Oh, he loves to play World of Warcraft, and
he loves to play various video games. There are
a few TV shows he likes to watch. None of this
stuff would look educational to most folks, but
he learns from everything he does! He is
learning to read, to write, to spell, to
calculate, to understand time, and to solve
problems. He is learning to research and wants
to design his own video games. He's not an avid
book reader; he's just not interested. But, as
we drive down the road he loves to try to read
just about every sign he can, and we talk about
it all. He loves to buy new Yu-Gi-Oh cards, and
he has to figure out how he'll afford to buy what
he wants. He budgets for this. He does amazing
calculations in his head to keep score during YGO
duels! He astounds me!! He has to write
messages to his co-players on WoW on the fly. He
has to read prompts and other information on
video games. He has to navigate around a large
map on WoW. I would be honored and delighted to
help him, if he asks, but he rarely, if ever, does!
A year ago, he was not reading or writing at
all. I had no idea about the kinds of
calculations he was able to do because I don't
test him (of course), but he has an amazing mind for calculation.
If he ever needs to, I have no doubt he will be
able to pass any basic skills test without
breaking a sweat. He has never chosen anything
"educational," and yet he seems quite
educated! And, he's really nice and wonderful to
be with and we NEVER lock horns about what he's
doing. He feels honored and respected, and he
respects me, too. All of this, I believe, stems
from his choices being honored.
Try to see what the educational perks are of the
things your kids love to do. Try to see how
they're absorbing the information they need from
what they love to do. Most of all, try to resist
the urge to disturb their process; let them be
and they will be free to chose more and more
things, and you will be amazed at how "educational" their choices really are!
_.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._
Marji
<http://www.gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
"The animals of this world exist for their own
reasons. They were not made for humans any more
than blacks were made for whites or women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._.:~`^~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
squeakybiscuit
> Safe enough or are you too frightened to attempt them? What if youHave you read the Anarchist Cookbook? It's mostly bomb-making and
> challenged yourself to find a way to make them safe? What would it
> take to do one of those projects? Is it that they aren't safe enough
> or that you don't want to expend the energy to find a way to keep him
> safe while he explores this avenue of adventure? I'm not saying
> that to berate your or belittle you. I'm saying it because someone
> said it to me and it opened up my whole mind to being creative.
weapon making and how to make psychedelic drugs from stuff like banana
peels. I can't seem to adapt any of the projects to make them safe.
Erin
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change his
mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
****
They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
****
They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/7/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
to qualify for financial aid here:
http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/2004_2005/english/general-studenteligibility.htm
I specifically point out this:
Demonstrate by one of the following means that you are qualified to
enroll in postsecondary education:
*Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED)
Certificate.
*Pass an approved ability-to-benefit (ATB) test.
*Meet other standards your state establishes that we have approved.
***********Complete a high school education in a home school setting
approved under state law.
If you are doing such then your children qualify!
They are so young right now. They may decide later that they do
indeed want to go to college and *then* they can work on the
requirements needed to attend college. And college doesn't have to
start at 18. Very few 18 yo's really know what they want to do "when
they grow up." I think more unschooled kids do as they've had the
ability and joy of pursuing their interests.
life skills from playing video games. They are learning to make use
of their resources, keep track of those resources, solve puzzles,
answer riddles, increasing reflexes, learning maps and keeping track
of changes in those maps, learning about art, using money wisely a
whole slew of things. BTW, those are things that my 13 yo just listed
off to me of things she thinks she has learned from playing Kingdom
Hearts II ceaslessly for the past 2 days. :)
Emily (age 13) has spent the past two days running back and forth
between the computer and the playstation trying to get through a
certain land on Kingdom Hearts II. She very focused on trying to get
out of this one area that she is stuck on. She's been on message
boards and IMing friends and looking up walk throughs and cheats.
What has she learned? Hmmm. All the things I listed above,
interpersonal communication skills, research skills and that the cat
box needed changing (which she did).
Mary Elayne (age 10) has been mostly watching this, reading a few
books, hula hooping, helping me with tidying up the kitchen, watching
a few movies with me, dancing, singing, and eating ice cream. What
has she learned? Probably all the above, plus rhythm, tempo, scales,
and a host of things from asking a million (and one) questions while
watching movies.
Keon (age 8 in 2 weeks) has also been helping Emily work through this
one problem. He's eaten a ton of cereal while doing so. Today he
made his sisters lunch (ramen noodles) and figured out how to make a
double batch rather than making two seperate batches. Water the
garden and harvesting some ripe vegetables. What has he learned?
TONS! It's amazing to watch his mind go. It's fantastic to see him
get so excited over a cucumber!
Michelle (age 41 on Sunday) I've been watching this whole event
unfold. I've washed a bit of laundry, tidied a few rooms, done some
tai chi, pet the cat, read 3 books (yes; in two days), cooked a few
meals, done a few dishes, went out with the kids for ice cream when
they all looked like they could use a break, dealt with a newspaper
delivery issue, wrote out bills, dealt with a problem a friend was
having, answered a help call from La Leche League and remembered to
leave the light on for my coparent who was coming home late. What
have I learned? I think you get the picture. I *hope* you get the
picture!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
> I feel the GED is important because you need a diploma or ged to getFinancial aid is a federal program. You can get information about how
> financial aid for college in my state.
to qualify for financial aid here:
http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/2004_2005/english/general-studenteligibility.htm
I specifically point out this:
Demonstrate by one of the following means that you are qualified to
enroll in postsecondary education:
*Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED)
Certificate.
*Pass an approved ability-to-benefit (ATB) test.
*Meet other standards your state establishes that we have approved.
***********Complete a high school education in a home school setting
approved under state law.
If you are doing such then your children qualify!
> But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change histhe key word in that first sentence is MAY. They MAY want to go.
> mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
They are so young right now. They may decide later that they do
indeed want to go to college and *then* they can work on the
requirements needed to attend college. And college doesn't have to
start at 18. Very few 18 yo's really know what they want to do "when
they grow up." I think more unschooled kids do as they've had the
ability and joy of pursuing their interests.
>Think of all that they *are* learning. They are learning all kinds of
> I realize that you can learn alot from video games- but there has
> got to be more. There aren't many jobs it prepares you for.
life skills from playing video games. They are learning to make use
of their resources, keep track of those resources, solve puzzles,
answer riddles, increasing reflexes, learning maps and keeping track
of changes in those maps, learning about art, using money wisely a
whole slew of things. BTW, those are things that my 13 yo just listed
off to me of things she thinks she has learned from playing Kingdom
Hearts II ceaslessly for the past 2 days. :)
> What do your kids do all day? What do you think they are learningI keep meaning to answer this from a previous post, so I'll attempt here.
> from it? (everyone)
Emily (age 13) has spent the past two days running back and forth
between the computer and the playstation trying to get through a
certain land on Kingdom Hearts II. She very focused on trying to get
out of this one area that she is stuck on. She's been on message
boards and IMing friends and looking up walk throughs and cheats.
What has she learned? Hmmm. All the things I listed above,
interpersonal communication skills, research skills and that the cat
box needed changing (which she did).
Mary Elayne (age 10) has been mostly watching this, reading a few
books, hula hooping, helping me with tidying up the kitchen, watching
a few movies with me, dancing, singing, and eating ice cream. What
has she learned? Probably all the above, plus rhythm, tempo, scales,
and a host of things from asking a million (and one) questions while
watching movies.
Keon (age 8 in 2 weeks) has also been helping Emily work through this
one problem. He's eaten a ton of cereal while doing so. Today he
made his sisters lunch (ramen noodles) and figured out how to make a
double batch rather than making two seperate batches. Water the
garden and harvesting some ripe vegetables. What has he learned?
TONS! It's amazing to watch his mind go. It's fantastic to see him
get so excited over a cucumber!
Michelle (age 41 on Sunday) I've been watching this whole event
unfold. I've washed a bit of laundry, tidied a few rooms, done some
tai chi, pet the cat, read 3 books (yes; in two days), cooked a few
meals, done a few dishes, went out with the kids for ice cream when
they all looked like they could use a break, dealt with a newspaper
delivery issue, wrote out bills, dealt with a problem a friend was
having, answered a help call from La Leche League and remembered to
leave the light on for my coparent who was coming home late. What
have I learned? I think you get the picture. I *hope* you get the
picture!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Jess Holland
Hi everyone,
I am really enjoying this discussion. I just started unschooling and am struggling with this very issue.
Math- my problem is that my son wants to be an engineer or architect which means lots of math. Not just your everyday math mind you. So what do you do then?
Reading- my 6 year old wants to learn to read badly...mainly because he can't read what is on his Pokemon gameboy game. : ) So I thought I would sit down with him Teach Your Child to Read in 100 easy lessons. They are short lessons. Would you all agree with this?
I really want my kids to have a good basis in reading and math which yes comes from everyday life. It's the more advanced stuff they may need later on in life for college that I am worried about.
Thanks for reading.
Jess
I am really enjoying this discussion. I just started unschooling and am struggling with this very issue.
Math- my problem is that my son wants to be an engineer or architect which means lots of math. Not just your everyday math mind you. So what do you do then?
Reading- my 6 year old wants to learn to read badly...mainly because he can't read what is on his Pokemon gameboy game. : ) So I thought I would sit down with him Teach Your Child to Read in 100 easy lessons. They are short lessons. Would you all agree with this?
I really want my kids to have a good basis in reading and math which yes comes from everyday life. It's the more advanced stuff they may need later on in life for college that I am worried about.
Thanks for reading.
Jess
----- Original Message -----
From: marji
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] is it enough?
At 18:19 6/7/2006, you wrote:
>My kids and I have bounced back and forth from unschooling, to
>curriculum to cyber schools throughout the years. They are happiest
>when unschooling, but I always chicken out and make them do work
>before too long.
One reason they may be reluctant to venture away
from the things they love doing to the exclusion
of anything else is that they may be anticipating
the return to being made to do stuff. They may
be waiting for you to chicken out once again and
put an end to their freedom of choice. But, you
said yourself that they are happiest when
unschooling, and happiness can be the most educational thing of all!
Having said all that, what would do you think it
would look like for them to "choose to do
anything educational"? Are you expecting them to
walk over to the bookshelf and grab a physics
textbook? Or a spelling workbook? Why on earth would they do that?
If you could relax a little with this thing, you
could begin to see how all the things they need
to learn are contained in the passions they
gravitate to (pardon the dangling
preposition!). My 11½-year-old son loves to play
Yu-Gi-Oh, he loves to play World of Warcraft, and
he loves to play various video games. There are
a few TV shows he likes to watch. None of this
stuff would look educational to most folks, but
he learns from everything he does! He is
learning to read, to write, to spell, to
calculate, to understand time, and to solve
problems. He is learning to research and wants
to design his own video games. He's not an avid
book reader; he's just not interested. But, as
we drive down the road he loves to try to read
just about every sign he can, and we talk about
it all. He loves to buy new Yu-Gi-Oh cards, and
he has to figure out how he'll afford to buy what
he wants. He budgets for this. He does amazing
calculations in his head to keep score during YGO
duels! He astounds me!! He has to write
messages to his co-players on WoW on the fly. He
has to read prompts and other information on
video games. He has to navigate around a large
map on WoW. I would be honored and delighted to
help him, if he asks, but he rarely, if ever, does!
A year ago, he was not reading or writing at
all. I had no idea about the kinds of
calculations he was able to do because I don't
test him (of course), but he has an amazing mind for calculation.
If he ever needs to, I have no doubt he will be
able to pass any basic skills test without
breaking a sweat. He has never chosen anything
"educational," and yet he seems quite
educated! And, he's really nice and wonderful to
be with and we NEVER lock horns about what he's
doing. He feels honored and respected, and he
respects me, too. All of this, I believe, stems
from his choices being honored.
Try to see what the educational perks are of the
things your kids love to do. Try to see how
they're absorbing the information they need from
what they love to do. Most of all, try to resist
the urge to disturb their process; let them be
and they will be free to chose more and more
things, and you will be amazed at how "educational" their choices really are!
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
Marji
<http://www.gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
"The animals of this world exist for their own
reasons. They were not made for humans any more
than blacks were made for whites or women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
We were watching an Addam's Family marathon recently and there was an
episode (it might have been the first one) where a truant office
comes to the house to complain that Pugsley and Wednesday, though of
age, had not been attending school. Gomez asks the TO why they
should have to go to school. The TO suggests that the kids may want
to be able to get a job when they're 26 years old, and Gomez,
grinning with a cigar in his teeth, says, "Well, come and speak to me then!"
Our jaws about dropped off when we heard that!
At 19:35 6/7/2006, you wrote:
episode (it might have been the first one) where a truant office
comes to the house to complain that Pugsley and Wednesday, though of
age, had not been attending school. Gomez asks the TO why they
should have to go to school. The TO suggests that the kids may want
to be able to get a job when they're 26 years old, and Gomez,
grinning with a cigar in his teeth, says, "Well, come and speak to me then!"
Our jaws about dropped off when we heard that!
At 19:35 6/7/2006, you wrote:
>But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change his[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?
>****
>They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.
>Elissa Jill
squeakybiscuit
> They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.My problem is what if they took it and failed?
> Elissa Jill
>
squeakybiscuit
There is state and federal aid. Our state aid (PHEAA in
Pennsylvania) requires a diploma or GED. A mom-created diploma isn't
good enough.
Erin
--- In [email protected], "Michelle/Melbrigða"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
5/english/general-studenteligibility.htm
Pennsylvania) requires a diploma or GED. A mom-created diploma isn't
good enough.
Erin
--- In [email protected], "Michelle/Melbrigða"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>get
> On 6/7/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
> > I feel the GED is important because you need a diploma or ged to
> > financial aid for college in my state.how
>
> Financial aid is a federal program. You can get information about
> to qualify for financial aid here:http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/2004_200
>
5/english/general-studenteligibility.htm
>(GED)
> I specifically point out this:
> Demonstrate by one of the following means that you are qualified to
> enroll in postsecondary education:
>
>
> *Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development
> Certificate.setting
> *Pass an approved ability-to-benefit (ATB) test.
> *Meet other standards your state establishes that we have approved.
> ***********Complete a high school education in a home school
> approved under state law.his
>
> If you are doing such then your children qualify!
>
> > But the other two may want to go to college, and he may change
> > mind by then. How would they get financial aid without the GED?do "when
>
> the key word in that first sentence is MAY. They MAY want to go.
> They are so young right now. They may decide later that they do
> indeed want to go to college and *then* they can work on the
> requirements needed to attend college. And college doesn't have to
> start at 18. Very few 18 yo's really know what they want to
> they grow up." I think more unschooled kids do as they've had thekinds of
> ability and joy of pursuing their interests.
>
> >
> > I realize that you can learn alot from video games- but there has
> > got to be more. There aren't many jobs it prepares you for.
>
> Think of all that they *are* learning. They are learning all
> life skills from playing video games. They are learning to makeuse
> of their resources, keep track of those resources, solve puzzles,track
> answer riddles, increasing reflexes, learning maps and keeping
> of changes in those maps, learning about art, using money wisely alisted
> whole slew of things. BTW, those are things that my 13 yo just
> off to me of things she thinks she has learned from playing Kingdomattempt here.
> Hearts II ceaslessly for the past 2 days. :)
>
> > What do your kids do all day? What do you think they are learning
> > from it? (everyone)
>
> I keep meaning to answer this from a previous post, so I'll
>get
> Emily (age 13) has spent the past two days running back and forth
> between the computer and the playstation trying to get through a
> certain land on Kingdom Hearts II. She very focused on trying to
> out of this one area that she is stuck on. She's been on messagecat
> boards and IMing friends and looking up walk throughs and cheats.
> What has she learned? Hmmm. All the things I listed above,
> interpersonal communication skills, research skills and that the
> box needed changing (which she did).watching
>
> Mary Elayne (age 10) has been mostly watching this, reading a few
> books, hula hooping, helping me with tidying up the kitchen,
> a few movies with me, dancing, singing, and eating ice cream. Whatscales,
> has she learned? Probably all the above, plus rhythm, tempo,
> and a host of things from asking a million (and one) questionswhile
> watching movies.this
>
> Keon (age 8 in 2 weeks) has also been helping Emily work through
> one problem. He's eaten a ton of cereal while doing so. Today hea
> made his sisters lunch (ramen noodles) and figured out how to make
> double batch rather than making two seperate batches. Water thehim
> garden and harvesting some ripe vegetables. What has he learned?
> TONS! It's amazing to watch his mind go. It's fantastic to see
> get so excited over a cucumber!some
>
> Michelle (age 41 on Sunday) I've been watching this whole event
> unfold. I've washed a bit of laundry, tidied a few rooms, done
> tai chi, pet the cat, read 3 books (yes; in two days), cooked a fewRecreationist
> meals, done a few dishes, went out with the kids for ice cream when
> they all looked like they could use a break, dealt with a newspaper
> delivery issue, wrote out bills, dealt with a problem a friend was
> having, answered a help call from La Leche League and remembered to
> leave the light on for my coparent who was coming home late. What
> have I learned? I think you get the picture. I *hope* you get the
> picture!
>
>
> --
> Michelle
> aka Melbrigða
> http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
> [email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval
>
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...>
My problem is what if they took it and failed?
=-=-=-
What if they died tomorrow? Would worrying about the GED even matter?
Live for today!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
From: squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...>
My problem is what if they took it and failed?
=-=-=-
What if they died tomorrow? Would worrying about the GED even matter?
Live for today!
~Kelly
Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org
"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
marji
At 19:40 6/7/2006, you wrote:
I recall reading engineering and other scientific do not necessarily
require the kinds of math skills that we think they do. I'm sure
someone else reading this list will remember that better than
me. Having said that, the best preparation for that kind of thing is
supporting you so to do things: building a birdhouse from scratch,
helping plan the steps on a deck you're building or bookcases or
whatever. We just built three raised garden beds, and it took a
certain amount of calculation to determine how much wood we'd need
and how much top soil and compost we'd need to fill the beds. That
kind of stuff. Real world stuff you and he can do together.
whatever needs to be read until he can do it himself.
then! And, they'll learn it better than they would if they learned
it before they needed it!
Here's a brief anecdote: When my son was born, I was determined not
to go back to working outside the house 'cause I wanted him to have a
free uninstitutionalized life. I wanted to work from home, and I
could type, so I thought I'd try to get work typing manuscripts and
stuff like that. Someone suggested that medical transcription would
be very lucrative, but you need to learn how to do it. I took a
course and learned everything I needed to know. I needed to know it,
so I learned it. It was a lot of the same basic anatomy stuff that I
had learned in school, but I didn't need to know it then, so I forgot
it; in fact, I never *really* learned it. But, now, when I needed
it, I had no problem learning it.
In the meantime, kids who live a free life, are learning something
much better than all that external stuff. They're learning their own
minds! And, I think that gives them an edge over most other folks!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Math- my problem is that my son wants to be an engineer or architectI can't remember when or where, but sometime in the last year I think
>which means lots of math. Not just your everyday math mind you. So
>what do you do then?
I recall reading engineering and other scientific do not necessarily
require the kinds of math skills that we think they do. I'm sure
someone else reading this list will remember that better than
me. Having said that, the best preparation for that kind of thing is
supporting you so to do things: building a birdhouse from scratch,
helping plan the steps on a deck you're building or bookcases or
whatever. We just built three raised garden beds, and it took a
certain amount of calculation to determine how much wood we'd need
and how much top soil and compost we'd need to fill the beds. That
kind of stuff. Real world stuff you and he can do together.
>Reading- my 6 year old wants to learn to read badly...mainly becauseNope! I think it's much better to sit with him and help him read
>he can't read what is on his Pokemon gameboy game. : ) So I thought
>I would sit down with him Teach Your Child to Read in 100 easy
>lessons. They are short lessons. Would you all agree with this?
whatever needs to be read until he can do it himself.
>I really want my kids to have a good basis in reading and math whichDon't worry about it!! When they need it, they'll learn it
>yes comes from everyday life. It's the more advanced stuff they may
>need later on in life for college that I am worried about.
then! And, they'll learn it better than they would if they learned
it before they needed it!
Here's a brief anecdote: When my son was born, I was determined not
to go back to working outside the house 'cause I wanted him to have a
free uninstitutionalized life. I wanted to work from home, and I
could type, so I thought I'd try to get work typing manuscripts and
stuff like that. Someone suggested that medical transcription would
be very lucrative, but you need to learn how to do it. I took a
course and learned everything I needed to know. I needed to know it,
so I learned it. It was a lot of the same basic anatomy stuff that I
had learned in school, but I didn't need to know it then, so I forgot
it; in fact, I never *really* learned it. But, now, when I needed
it, I had no problem learning it.
In the meantime, kids who live a free life, are learning something
much better than all that external stuff. They're learning their own
minds! And, I think that gives them an edge over most other folks!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 19:46 6/7/2006, you wrote:
they were older and failed?
They'd take it again!
~Marji
P.S. I understand that it's kind of hard to fail that test, by the way.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.What if they learned all this stuff now and then took the GED when
> > Elissa Jill
> >
>
>My problem is what if they took it and failed?
they were older and failed?
They'd take it again!
~Marji
P.S. I understand that it's kind of hard to fail that test, by the way.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
So find some other science experiments. What is exciting about this?
He is interested for a reason, and the longer you say no, the more he
wants it, and the more you become the irrational enemy. Does he want
to blow stuff up, or is he just appealed to the basic alternative
viewpoint in there? If he wants to blow stuff up, then look at mixing
vinegar and baking soda in different containers, or more complex
science experiments (google) or if he just wants it to look cool what
about
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/nobudgetsfx/nobudgetsfx.html . If
he's interested in the idea of anarchy, you might let him read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook which explains
(without you being controlling) that most of the recipes in there are
dangerous and probably not explained right anyway and also that most
anarchists dismiss the book as crackpot. Then maybe you could ask if
he wanted to look at stuff online and find some alternatives. Go to
Hobby Lobby and get a science kit and let him go at it. Very little
in there is going to cause structural damage to your son or the house.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
He is interested for a reason, and the longer you say no, the more he
wants it, and the more you become the irrational enemy. Does he want
to blow stuff up, or is he just appealed to the basic alternative
viewpoint in there? If he wants to blow stuff up, then look at mixing
vinegar and baking soda in different containers, or more complex
science experiments (google) or if he just wants it to look cool what
about
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/nobudgetsfx/nobudgetsfx.html . If
he's interested in the idea of anarchy, you might let him read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchist_Cookbook which explains
(without you being controlling) that most of the recipes in there are
dangerous and probably not explained right anyway and also that most
anarchists dismiss the book as crackpot. Then maybe you could ask if
he wanted to look at stuff online and find some alternatives. Go to
Hobby Lobby and get a science kit and let him go at it. Very little
in there is going to cause structural damage to your son or the house.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jun 7, 2006, at 6:31 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:
>
> > Safe enough or are you too frightened to attempt them? What if you
> > challenged yourself to find a way to make them safe? What would it
> > take to do one of those projects? Is it that they aren't safe enough
> > or that you don't want to expend the energy to find a way to keep
> him
> > safe while he explores this avenue of adventure? I'm not saying
> > that to berate your or belittle you. I'm saying it because someone
> > said it to me and it opened up my whole mind to being creative.
>
> Have you read the Anarchist Cookbook? It's mostly bomb-making and
> weapon making and how to make psychedelic drugs from stuff like banana
> peels. I can't seem to adapt any of the projects to make them safe.
>
> Erin
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
Then they take it again. Have you looked at a GED? It's really more
basic than you imagine.
Melissa
basic than you imagine.
Melissa
On Jun 7, 2006, at 6:46 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:
> > They could simply take the GED if or when that comes up.
> > Elissa Jill
> >
>
> My problem is what if they took it and failed?
>
> .
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 19:46 6/7/2006, you wrote:
wasting time now worrying about it! "Worry is interest you pay now
on a debt you may never owe." ~Author unknown by me.
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
Marji
<http://www.gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
"The animals of this world exist for their own reasons. They were
not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites or
women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>My problem is what if they took it and failed?No, that's not really your problem. Your problem is that you are
wasting time now worrying about it! "Worry is interest you pay now
on a debt you may never owe." ~Author unknown by me.
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
Marji
<http://www.gaiawolf.org/>GaiaWolf
<http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GaiaWolf/>Join the GaiaWolf Mailing List
"The animals of this world exist for their own reasons. They were
not made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites or
women created for men."
~Alice Walker
_.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._.:~`^'~:._
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
squeakybiscuit
>this?
> So find some other science experiments. What is exciting about
> He is interested for a reason, and the longer you say no, the morehe
> wants it, and the more you become the irrational enemy. Does hewant
> to blow stuff up, or is he just appealed to the basic alternativeI think the interest is because it borders on the illegal. He is
> viewpoint in there?
interested in bomb-making, hacking, poisons, drugs, terrorism--just
about anything that is illegal or socially unacceptable.
I don't know how to use these interests to encourage him to explore
in a legal and safe way.
I don't know--maybe he'll be in the FBI someday if I encourage the
reading- but I worry that he is going to become a criminal. His
ethics aren't all that good, for example he thinks it is perfectly
okay to obtain free software through using hacks.
We talk alot about ethics and safety, and he hasn't tried anything
illegal yet, but he reads 2600 magazine and is in awe of what the
guys in there pull off.
marji
At 20:19 6/7/2006, you wrote:
about strewing information he needs to know about the consequences of
this stuff, especially since you say he's in "awe of what the guys in
there pull off." Perhaps he could benefit from hear other stories
about folks who aren't so lucky.
When I was a kid I remember reading a story (for my own enjoyment, in
fact) about a kid who found a leftover firework on the 5th of July
and he and his buddy exploded it and the kid lost his eyesight
permanently. The book was actually about this kid becoming
functional again with the aid of a guide dog, but the part about the
firework *really* impressed me, and I made it a point to steer really
clear of those kinds of things! To show you how impressed I was, I
remember it to this day, and I was probably 10 or 11 when I read the
book (about 37 years ago!).
Perhaps you can find something for your son that would be able to
impress him as well.
~Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I don't know--maybe he'll be in the FBI someday if I encourage theI can understand why you're feeling concerned! I like Melissa's idea
>reading- but I worry that he is going to become a criminal. His
>ethics aren't all that good, for example he thinks it is perfectly
>okay to obtain free software through using hacks.
about strewing information he needs to know about the consequences of
this stuff, especially since you say he's in "awe of what the guys in
there pull off." Perhaps he could benefit from hear other stories
about folks who aren't so lucky.
When I was a kid I remember reading a story (for my own enjoyment, in
fact) about a kid who found a leftover firework on the 5th of July
and he and his buddy exploded it and the kid lost his eyesight
permanently. The book was actually about this kid becoming
functional again with the aid of a guide dog, but the part about the
firework *really* impressed me, and I made it a point to steer really
clear of those kinds of things! To show you how impressed I was, I
remember it to this day, and I was probably 10 or 11 when I read the
book (about 37 years ago!).
Perhaps you can find something for your son that would be able to
impress him as well.
~Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
My problem is what if they took it and failed?
************
What IF they took the test and failed?
This doesn't require an answer from you, it's something I want you to think about before I answer.
1. They could get a GED study book and retake it.
2. The could join the military and let THEM pay for school.
3. They could inherit some money and use that to pay for school.
4. They could have a job that will pay for school.
5. They could start by taking community college classes which are MUCH cheaper and pay as they go out of their own earnings.
6. They could win the lottery.
7. They could find a mentor and learn that way.
8. They could choose to look for a different route to what ever their final goal is.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
************
What IF they took the test and failed?
This doesn't require an answer from you, it's something I want you to think about before I answer.
1. They could get a GED study book and retake it.
2. The could join the military and let THEM pay for school.
3. They could inherit some money and use that to pay for school.
4. They could have a job that will pay for school.
5. They could start by taking community college classes which are MUCH cheaper and pay as they go out of their own earnings.
6. They could win the lottery.
7. They could find a mentor and learn that way.
8. They could choose to look for a different route to what ever their final goal is.
Elissa Jill
A Kindersher saychel iz oychet a saychel.
"A Child's wisdom is also wisdom." ~Yiddish Proverb
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sunsaltnsand
::snort:: that's the best laugh I've had in weeks!! LOL
*shari*
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of squeakybiscuit
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: is it enough?
Have you read the Anarchist Cookbook? It's mostly bomb-making and weapon
making and how to make psychedelic drugs from stuff like banana peels. I
can't seem to adapt any of the projects to make them safe.
*shari*
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of squeakybiscuit
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: is it enough?
Have you read the Anarchist Cookbook? It's mostly bomb-making and weapon
making and how to make psychedelic drugs from stuff like banana peels. I
can't seem to adapt any of the projects to make them safe.
Ren Allen
"My problem is what if they took it and failed?"
BIG DEAL!! Seriously. Is it really a big deal to fail the GED?
Ye-gads, NO!! THey'll LEARN from it.
You're spending a lot of time worrying about things that aren't even
on the horizon. You're taking a lot of responsibility onto yourself
that could backfire on you. If you see it as YOUR responsibility to
prepare your kids for a bunch of unknown factors, then they'll surely
blame you when things go wrong.
How about supporting whatever (safe) interests they have now? How
about TRUSTING that they are intelligent human beings that can use
college, or GED's or anything in the world to achieve their goals if
they choose it!??
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
BIG DEAL!! Seriously. Is it really a big deal to fail the GED?
Ye-gads, NO!! THey'll LEARN from it.
You're spending a lot of time worrying about things that aren't even
on the horizon. You're taking a lot of responsibility onto yourself
that could backfire on you. If you see it as YOUR responsibility to
prepare your kids for a bunch of unknown factors, then they'll surely
blame you when things go wrong.
How about supporting whatever (safe) interests they have now? How
about TRUSTING that they are intelligent human beings that can use
college, or GED's or anything in the world to achieve their goals if
they choose it!??
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Melissa
sounds like he's seeking power. If he's in awe of guys who can do
powerful things, control their environment and get what they want...
I'm not trying to be critical, but when you say 'we talk', do you
mean that you both really talk, or does it come down to you getting
to say what is right or wrong? Why does he think hacking is ethical?
Isn't there a line between, say, hacking for bank numbers or hacking
for a free game cheat? Where does he draw the line? Can you ask him
maybe someday, what would be the consequence for x, y or z?
I think if you encourage the reading, he'll hate it more. If you
worry he'll become a criminal, he'll live up to your expectation. I
have a friend from Cuba. She says that there is a saying there, you
NEVER say anything negative about your children, the spirits hear it
and help them become it. Don't 'use' the interest, provide positive
ones. Be willing to hear him talk about the negative ones without
criticizing. On the radical christian unschooling board, there is a
really great discussion about porn right now...the last post I read
was saying that we are here to provide role models, but you cannot
force your children to live your life. You can say "I'm really
uncomfortable with this because it goes against my ethics, but you
cannot force the development of another persons ethics. Or something
like that.
Now I'm running on fumes and needing to go because the boys are
getting riled up again and I'm missing out on the warfare.
Peace
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
powerful things, control their environment and get what they want...
I'm not trying to be critical, but when you say 'we talk', do you
mean that you both really talk, or does it come down to you getting
to say what is right or wrong? Why does he think hacking is ethical?
Isn't there a line between, say, hacking for bank numbers or hacking
for a free game cheat? Where does he draw the line? Can you ask him
maybe someday, what would be the consequence for x, y or z?
I think if you encourage the reading, he'll hate it more. If you
worry he'll become a criminal, he'll live up to your expectation. I
have a friend from Cuba. She says that there is a saying there, you
NEVER say anything negative about your children, the spirits hear it
and help them become it. Don't 'use' the interest, provide positive
ones. Be willing to hear him talk about the negative ones without
criticizing. On the radical christian unschooling board, there is a
really great discussion about porn right now...the last post I read
was saying that we are here to provide role models, but you cannot
force your children to live your life. You can say "I'm really
uncomfortable with this because it goes against my ethics, but you
cannot force the development of another persons ethics. Or something
like that.
Now I'm running on fumes and needing to go because the boys are
getting riled up again and I'm missing out on the warfare.
Peace
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jun 7, 2006, at 7:19 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:
> >
> > So find some other science experiments. What is exciting about
> this?
> > He is interested for a reason, and the longer you say no, the more
> he
> > wants it, and the more you become the irrational enemy. Does he
> want
> > to blow stuff up, or is he just appealed to the basic alternative
> > viewpoint in there?
>
> I think the interest is because it borders on the illegal. He is
> interested in bomb-making, hacking, poisons, drugs, terrorism--just
> about anything that is illegal or socially unacceptable.
>
> I don't know how to use these interests to encourage him to explore
> in a legal and safe way.
>
> I don't know--maybe he'll be in the FBI someday if I encourage the
> reading- but I worry that he is going to become a criminal. His
> ethics aren't all that good, for example he thinks it is perfectly
> okay to obtain free software through using hacks.
>
> We talk alot about ethics and safety, and he hasn't tried anything
> illegal yet, but he reads 2600 magazine and is in awe of what the
> guys in there pull off.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/7/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
online and did some searching. Went to several state universities and
even a few private ones in your state (providing that your kids would
want to attend college in your state). After a quick glance, what I
found (and what I suspected) is that the PHEAA is not the only way to
fund college. The requirements for PHEAA does mention diploma or GED
but I only found this information in individual school sites. I did
not find it on the PHEAA site *and* many of the school websites didn't
even mention diploma or GED but said, "Accepted into a course of
study." I'm thinking this may be new terminology thanks to
homeschoolers :)
Besides, if your child is ready to go to college and has the desire to
go to college I am sure that taking the GED is just another step.
There are quite a few "GED practice tests" online. I took one not
long ago. I found it droll, simple and laughable.
Stop putting up roadblocks that really aren't there. Trust your kids!
They'll figure it out or they will ask you for help. When we force
our children to "learn" what we think they should know because of some
fear, we *limit* what they can become rather than help open doors to
what they what to become!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
>I hate people putting up roadblocks when there aren't any, so I went
> There is state and federal aid. Our state aid (PHEAA in
> Pennsylvania) requires a diploma or GED. A mom-created diploma isn't
> good enough.
>
online and did some searching. Went to several state universities and
even a few private ones in your state (providing that your kids would
want to attend college in your state). After a quick glance, what I
found (and what I suspected) is that the PHEAA is not the only way to
fund college. The requirements for PHEAA does mention diploma or GED
but I only found this information in individual school sites. I did
not find it on the PHEAA site *and* many of the school websites didn't
even mention diploma or GED but said, "Accepted into a course of
study." I'm thinking this may be new terminology thanks to
homeschoolers :)
Besides, if your child is ready to go to college and has the desire to
go to college I am sure that taking the GED is just another step.
There are quite a few "GED practice tests" online. I took one not
long ago. I found it droll, simple and laughable.
Stop putting up roadblocks that really aren't there. Trust your kids!
They'll figure it out or they will ask you for help. When we force
our children to "learn" what we think they should know because of some
fear, we *limit* what they can become rather than help open doors to
what they what to become!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/7/06, Jess Holland <lostmom32065@...> wrote:
That's great. If so he will find the math as he finds architecture
and engineering! And I have met so many neat people who never "got
math" when they were younger excel at math when they got older because
they could see the way math was used in a practical sense. We all use
math everyday, but if I were to take higher math it would go over my
head because I couldnt' see the application for that math. Oh oh oh
oh oh, does someone have that link to that really cool engineering
school that was posted last week or so? The one that was really
"unschooly?" I'll try remember to hunt it up.
learn to read. If you child wants to learn to read then sit with him
and read to and with him. Help him see words he recognizes like Buger
King, McDonald's, The Zoo, Wendy's, Walgreen's, Target, STOP, YIELD,
Main Street, ToYOta :), University Boulevard, all the words he
encounters every day. Sit with his Yu-gi-oh cards and read them with
him. Help him learn how they are arranged and the information on them
and how to decipher it all. I know little kids that can barely read
that do just fine playing Magic cards once they are taught to decipher
them!
are quite a few seasoned moms here who have grown children who are
doing just fine and have gotten the things that they have needed when
they needed them thanks to mindful parenting and being allowed the joy
of following their interestes!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
> Hi everyone,Is this the 6yo? He knows he wants to be an engineer or architect.
> I am really enjoying this discussion. I just started unschooling and am struggling with this very issue.
> Math- my problem is that my son wants to be an engineer or architect which means lots of math. Not just your everyday math mind you. So what do you do then?
That's great. If so he will find the math as he finds architecture
and engineering! And I have met so many neat people who never "got
math" when they were younger excel at math when they got older because
they could see the way math was used in a practical sense. We all use
math everyday, but if I were to take higher math it would go over my
head because I couldnt' see the application for that math. Oh oh oh
oh oh, does someone have that link to that really cool engineering
school that was posted last week or so? The one that was really
"unschooly?" I'll try remember to hunt it up.
> Reading- my 6 year old wants to learn to read badly...mainly because he can't read what is on his Pokemon gameboy game. : ) So I thought I would sit down with him Teach Your Child to Read in 100 easy lessons. They are short lessons. Would you all agree with this?BTDT threw the book away! It is the most droll and boring way to
learn to read. If you child wants to learn to read then sit with him
and read to and with him. Help him see words he recognizes like Buger
King, McDonald's, The Zoo, Wendy's, Walgreen's, Target, STOP, YIELD,
Main Street, ToYOta :), University Boulevard, all the words he
encounters every day. Sit with his Yu-gi-oh cards and read them with
him. Help him learn how they are arranged and the information on them
and how to decipher it all. I know little kids that can barely read
that do just fine playing Magic cards once they are taught to decipher
them!
>Hey Jess, it's ok. Breathe. :) They'll get there. Trust us. There
> I really want my kids to have a good basis in reading and math which yes comes from everyday life. It's the more advanced stuff they may need later on in life for college that I am worried about.
>
are quite a few seasoned moms here who have grown children who are
doing just fine and have gotten the things that they have needed when
they needed them thanks to mindful parenting and being allowed the joy
of following their interestes!
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
jlh44music
> And, he's really nice and wonderful to be with and we NEVER lockhorns about what he's doing. He feels honored and respected, and he
respects me, too. All of this, I believe, stems from his choices
being honored.>>>>
Oooh Marji, I LOVE what you wrote! This is one of the MOST special
things I've enjoyed this past year since my dd has left school, the
mutual respect.
Jann
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/7/06, squeakybiscuit <squeakybiscuit@...> wrote:
powder rifle group or a Civil War reenactment group where he can blow
things up! There are ways to meet his need for this kind of "cool
stuff" you just have to be creative. Just because he reads this stuff
and it sounds interesting doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to
grow up to be "the bad guy." Who knows, by knowing all this stuff he
might be a fantastic FBI, CIA, or DEA agent. They always say that the
best person to test a "fail proof" security system is a thief and the
best way to keep your computers safe from viruses is to hire a hacker!
And wasn't aspartame made by melting bananas?
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
>The whole book? OK, if he wants to blow something up find a black
> > Safe enough or are you too frightened to attempt them? What if you
> > challenged yourself to find a way to make them safe? What would it
> > take to do one of those projects? Is it that they aren't safe enough
> > or that you don't want to expend the energy to find a way to keep him
> > safe while he explores this avenue of adventure? I'm not saying
> > that to berate your or belittle you. I'm saying it because someone
> > said it to me and it opened up my whole mind to being creative.
>
>
> Have you read the Anarchist Cookbook? It's mostly bomb-making and
> weapon making and how to make psychedelic drugs from stuff like banana
> peels. I can't seem to adapt any of the projects to make them safe.
>
> Erin
powder rifle group or a Civil War reenactment group where he can blow
things up! There are ways to meet his need for this kind of "cool
stuff" you just have to be creative. Just because he reads this stuff
and it sounds interesting doesn't necessarily mean that he is going to
grow up to be "the bad guy." Who knows, by knowing all this stuff he
might be a fantastic FBI, CIA, or DEA agent. They always say that the
best person to test a "fail proof" security system is a thief and the
best way to keep your computers safe from viruses is to hire a hacker!
And wasn't aspartame made by melting bananas?
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
Melissa
I have no links, but did want to say something about higher math. I
ranted my way through trig and algebra. It made NO sense to me, I
hated it, but I had to take it to graduate. Once i weaseled my way
through to calculus, I found that I LOVE calculus. It totally made
sense to me, it was intuitive and was so easy. I got straight A's in
both semesters, and even more importantly I understood algebra and
trig so much better. This is what irritates me when people say you
*must* learn maths and sciences in order, because you really don't. I
had absolutely no understanding of earlier maths, but when i got
higher maths (and science too, I cried through basic physics, but
once I got into E&M it all made sense) I understood it and all the
earlier stuff. My brain just works differently, I guess. :-P
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
ranted my way through trig and algebra. It made NO sense to me, I
hated it, but I had to take it to graduate. Once i weaseled my way
through to calculus, I found that I LOVE calculus. It totally made
sense to me, it was intuitive and was so easy. I got straight A's in
both semesters, and even more importantly I understood algebra and
trig so much better. This is what irritates me when people say you
*must* learn maths and sciences in order, because you really don't. I
had absolutely no understanding of earlier maths, but when i got
higher maths (and science too, I cried through basic physics, but
once I got into E&M it all made sense) I understood it and all the
earlier stuff. My brain just works differently, I guess. :-P
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:11 PM, Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:
> .
> That's great. If so he will find the math as he finds architecture
> and engineering! And I have met so many neat people who never "got
> math" when they were younger excel at math when they got older because
> they could see the way math was used in a practical sense. We all use
> math everyday, but if I were to take higher math it would go over my
> head because I couldnt' see the application for that math.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 7, 2006, at 4:05 PM, squeakybiscuit wrote:
qualify for college and for financial aid. You sometimes have to be
savvy about how to go about it - and the best place to get such
information is from others in your own state. If you let us know what
state you're in, someone here can probably direct you to state-level
information that will be reassuring and helpful to you.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The kids in your article were getting a diploma. I don't have aThere are ways, in pretty much every state, for unschooled kids to
> school like that around here that will give a diploma for that kind
> of education.
qualify for college and for financial aid. You sometimes have to be
savvy about how to go about it - and the best place to get such
information is from others in your own state. If you let us know what
state you're in, someone here can probably direct you to state-level
information that will be reassuring and helpful to you.
-pam
Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]