more on "buts"
Ren Allen
"Actually some of these are incorrectly using the word but. In our
sloppy American use of English they have become common place though."
Now THAT is an elitist attitude!!;)
Language is a living, evolving thing. It is quite common for people to
disagree on word usage or grammar and as people begin to USE a certain
phrase/word/usage more it BECOMES "proper".
We don't have "sloppy" use of English, we have an AMERICAN way of
using English. That's how language changes. That's how the rules
evolve over time. There are more useful ways of presenting language,
better methods of communication...sure.
But those are not "incorrect" ways of using "but"...they are part of
our language and considered regular usage now. Straight from a
website about proper grammar too!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
sloppy American use of English they have become common place though."
Now THAT is an elitist attitude!!;)
Language is a living, evolving thing. It is quite common for people to
disagree on word usage or grammar and as people begin to USE a certain
phrase/word/usage more it BECOMES "proper".
We don't have "sloppy" use of English, we have an AMERICAN way of
using English. That's how language changes. That's how the rules
evolve over time. There are more useful ways of presenting language,
better methods of communication...sure.
But those are not "incorrect" ways of using "but"...they are part of
our language and considered regular usage now. Straight from a
website about proper grammar too!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/4/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Language is a living, evolving thing. It is quite common for people to
which is different from "proper." The *proper* way to say something may be
quite different from the *accepted* way of saying something. When I was in
college I had a professor who was a lawyer. She was an alumnus or the
college so offered to teach 1 class each term pro bono (so to speak). She
taught a speech course. Not only how to correctly pronounce words, but also
how to use words. She said that the reason that she was so compelled to
teach about speech was because of her years as a lawyer. She said that a
lawyer's first line of defense is the spoken language. A lawyer can tear
apart a witness or other lawyer by shredding their words and deciphering
what is a well-meant phrase. Knowing how to correctly speak and use
language should be the top priority of any lawyer and while none of us in
the class were intending on becoming lawyers, it was still important for us
to know language. She started my quest for learning how language should be
used verses how it is used. I'm one of those crazy people who really
enjoyed "Eats Shoots and Leaves" (and also the parody Eats Shites and Leaves
- I think that's the title).
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Ooo, I've never been among the elite. Should I wear a tiara? ROFLMAO!!!!!
> "Actually some of these are incorrectly using the word but. In our
> sloppy American use of English they have become common place though."
>
> Now THAT is an elitist attitude!!;)
Language is a living, evolving thing. It is quite common for people to
> disagree on word usage or grammar and as people begin to USE a certainI'm not sure that it becomes proper. I think that it becomes "accepted"
> phrase/word/usage more it BECOMES "proper".
which is different from "proper." The *proper* way to say something may be
quite different from the *accepted* way of saying something. When I was in
college I had a professor who was a lawyer. She was an alumnus or the
college so offered to teach 1 class each term pro bono (so to speak). She
taught a speech course. Not only how to correctly pronounce words, but also
how to use words. She said that the reason that she was so compelled to
teach about speech was because of her years as a lawyer. She said that a
lawyer's first line of defense is the spoken language. A lawyer can tear
apart a witness or other lawyer by shredding their words and deciphering
what is a well-meant phrase. Knowing how to correctly speak and use
language should be the top priority of any lawyer and while none of us in
the class were intending on becoming lawyers, it was still important for us
to know language. She started my quest for learning how language should be
used verses how it is used. I'm one of those crazy people who really
enjoyed "Eats Shoots and Leaves" (and also the parody Eats Shites and Leaves
- I think that's the title).
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Michelle/Melbrigða <pamperedmichelle@...>
She was an alumnus or the
college so offered to teach 1 class each term pro bono (so to speak).
-=-=-
*She* was an alumna!
~Kelly
From: Michelle/Melbrigða <pamperedmichelle@...>
She was an alumnus or the
college so offered to teach 1 class each term pro bono (so to speak).
-=-=-
*She* was an alumna!
~Kelly
Deb Lewis
****She* was an alumna!***
OH! I pictured her with a sprouting flowerhead and then I realized the
word wasn't "allium."
Deb, in the garden too much lately.
Borrowing Marji's Post scripting habit... I didn't at first picture her
with a crystal head (alum) but now I have to go find out why she's an
alumna, so thank you very much when I could be eating onions.
OH! I pictured her with a sprouting flowerhead and then I realized the
word wasn't "allium."
Deb, in the garden too much lately.
Borrowing Marji's Post scripting habit... I didn't at first picture her
with a crystal head (alum) but now I have to go find out why she's an
alumna, so thank you very much when I could be eating onions.
Danielle Conger
Michelle/Melbrigða wrote:
matter of stylistic usage rather than a matter of either "incorrect" or
"proper," both words you've chosen to use. Within the English language
what has evolved or become "accepted" usage is precisely how either
"correct" or "proper" gets determined by the folks who write and publish
the big books.
There was no such thing as standardized spelling (either correct or
incorrect) when the Declaration of Independence was written, for
instance. Now, however, there is "correct" and "incorrect" spelling, and
likely we all have computer programs that can tell those apart. One
could do some research on original documents (I know because I have
looked at many) and find numerous text written by several different
founding fathers and find "errors" in spelling, though that's not how it
was perceived at the time.
For a long time, by way of another example, the grammar rule in English
was to use commas between all items in a series, including after the
last item before the coordinating conjunction "and." Now, however, the
more accepted or preferred usage is to leave the final comma out. Give
it another 10 years or so of being "preferred" and the old way will soon
become "incorrect." Complicate that scenario even further by taking a
gander at the several different style guides governing different
professions--commas are used differently, quotations are done
differently and are "correct" or "incorrect" only by virtue of context.
Coming onto an elist and making broad claims about what's correct and
incorrect language is irritating, imnsho. Talking about the principles
behind our phrasing choices and the effects those choices are likely to
have will help us all gain a deeper understanding of unschooling and our
relationships with others--way more so than making stylistic
pronouncements as if they were absolute fact.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org
>Everything you've pointed out both in this and the previous email is a
>
> I'm not sure that it becomes proper. I think that it becomes "accepted"
> which is different from "proper." The *proper* way to say something
> may be
> quite different from the *accepted* way of saying something.
matter of stylistic usage rather than a matter of either "incorrect" or
"proper," both words you've chosen to use. Within the English language
what has evolved or become "accepted" usage is precisely how either
"correct" or "proper" gets determined by the folks who write and publish
the big books.
There was no such thing as standardized spelling (either correct or
incorrect) when the Declaration of Independence was written, for
instance. Now, however, there is "correct" and "incorrect" spelling, and
likely we all have computer programs that can tell those apart. One
could do some research on original documents (I know because I have
looked at many) and find numerous text written by several different
founding fathers and find "errors" in spelling, though that's not how it
was perceived at the time.
For a long time, by way of another example, the grammar rule in English
was to use commas between all items in a series, including after the
last item before the coordinating conjunction "and." Now, however, the
more accepted or preferred usage is to leave the final comma out. Give
it another 10 years or so of being "preferred" and the old way will soon
become "incorrect." Complicate that scenario even further by taking a
gander at the several different style guides governing different
professions--commas are used differently, quotations are done
differently and are "correct" or "incorrect" only by virtue of context.
Coming onto an elist and making broad claims about what's correct and
incorrect language is irritating, imnsho. Talking about the principles
behind our phrasing choices and the effects those choices are likely to
have will help us all gain a deeper understanding of unschooling and our
relationships with others--way more so than making stylistic
pronouncements as if they were absolute fact.
--
~~Danielle
Emily (8), Julia (7), Sam (6)
http://www.organiclearning.blogspot.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Connections: ezine of unschooling and mindful parenting
http://connections.organiclearning.org