Making amends
Ren Allen
"> actually, anytime you say the word "but" it negates everything you
said before but."
How about "Ren is really disorganized but she's really artistic"...is
that really negating anything? Nope. It's just a qualifier.
"That paper is a bit rough, BUT it grabs color really well"
"Kelly Green may be a bit bright, BUT if you add some yellow it will
tone it down"
"Jalen would love to visit, BUT he would rather go get ice cream"
But doesn't negate anything in many cases.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
said before but."
How about "Ren is really disorganized but she's really artistic"...is
that really negating anything? Nope. It's just a qualifier.
"That paper is a bit rough, BUT it grabs color really well"
"Kelly Green may be a bit bright, BUT if you add some yellow it will
tone it down"
"Jalen would love to visit, BUT he would rather go get ice cream"
But doesn't negate anything in many cases.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Michelle/Melbrigða
On 6/3/06, Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
For instance in your first example, you are disqualifying/negating Ren's
disorganization by making up for the fact that she is creative. the paper
is rough, but it is ok (negated) because it does what I need it to (I'm
presuming some sort of art paper). Green is too bright but (negate) if we
add yellow it won't be green anymore. And Jalen doesn't love visiting you
as much as ice cream.
I've taken quite a few human relations courses (thanks to LLL and rape
crisis counselling) and this is one thing we are taught over and over. When
speaking with people try to find ways of not using the words but and
however. For instance if someone says, "Can you watch my kids on Friday"
and you *really* don't want to (or can't) watch their kids don't say, "I
would love to BUT I have something else to do." Simply say, "That doesn't
work for me as I have something else to do that day." I remember the first
time that I was severely chastized for using the word but when communicating
in a professional forum (Lactation mailing list) by someone that I greatly
admired. It was the first time that I had ever heard that and I believe
that I did have a few examples like Ren's trying to prove my point and she
not so kindly pointed out how while I thought that they were not negating
the first half that they truly were. "But" can lessen the importance of the
first half of a sentence. If you wanted to show yourself in a positive
sense (using your disorganized example) you could much better express it by
saying, "Ren manages to create truly amazing things through a chaordic
method!" (Chaord is order out of chaos.) "While the paper is really rough,
it has the perfect absorbability for the project I am working on." "Adding
yellow to Kelly green is a great way of mellowing out the brightness."
"Jalen is busy at the moment and has plans to go get ice cream. Would you
like to join us (OR Perhaps we could see you when we get back OR Another day
would be better for us to visit.)"
Of course it takes time to be able to work to a point of remembering to talk
that way. And I tend to fail at it myself from time to time! Sometimes,
though, the word but is a perfectly good word to use.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Actually it still does. Saying BUT lessens the meaning of the first part.
> "> actually, anytime you say the word "but" it negates everything you
> said before but."
>
> How about "Ren is really disorganized but she's really artistic"...is
> that really negating anything? Nope. It's just a qualifier.
>
> "That paper is a bit rough, BUT it grabs color really well"
> "Kelly Green may be a bit bright, BUT if you add some yellow it will
> tone it down"
> "Jalen would love to visit, BUT he would rather go get ice cream"
>
> But doesn't negate anything in many cases.
For instance in your first example, you are disqualifying/negating Ren's
disorganization by making up for the fact that she is creative. the paper
is rough, but it is ok (negated) because it does what I need it to (I'm
presuming some sort of art paper). Green is too bright but (negate) if we
add yellow it won't be green anymore. And Jalen doesn't love visiting you
as much as ice cream.
I've taken quite a few human relations courses (thanks to LLL and rape
crisis counselling) and this is one thing we are taught over and over. When
speaking with people try to find ways of not using the words but and
however. For instance if someone says, "Can you watch my kids on Friday"
and you *really* don't want to (or can't) watch their kids don't say, "I
would love to BUT I have something else to do." Simply say, "That doesn't
work for me as I have something else to do that day." I remember the first
time that I was severely chastized for using the word but when communicating
in a professional forum (Lactation mailing list) by someone that I greatly
admired. It was the first time that I had ever heard that and I believe
that I did have a few examples like Ren's trying to prove my point and she
not so kindly pointed out how while I thought that they were not negating
the first half that they truly were. "But" can lessen the importance of the
first half of a sentence. If you wanted to show yourself in a positive
sense (using your disorganized example) you could much better express it by
saying, "Ren manages to create truly amazing things through a chaordic
method!" (Chaord is order out of chaos.) "While the paper is really rough,
it has the perfect absorbability for the project I am working on." "Adding
yellow to Kelly green is a great way of mellowing out the brightness."
"Jalen is busy at the moment and has plans to go get ice cream. Would you
like to join us (OR Perhaps we could see you when we get back OR Another day
would be better for us to visit.)"
Of course it takes time to be able to work to a point of remembering to talk
that way. And I tend to fail at it myself from time to time! Sometimes,
though, the word but is a perfectly good word to use.
--
Michelle
aka Melbrigða
http://eventualknitting.blogspot.com
[email protected] - Homeschooling for the Medieval Recreationist
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 3, 2006, at 6:06 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
assumed someone would draw a conclusion from the first part that the
second isn't possible so the "but" negates that conclusion.
The assumption of the first sentence is that disorganization gets in
the way of creativity, so you're saying "You might assume that since
Ren's so disorganized that she can't possibly be creative, BUT you'd
be wrong."
In the second that rough paper doesn't absorb well, so you're saying
"You might assume because that paper is rough that it wouldn't grab
color well BUT this particular paper does."
In the third it seems obvious that Jalen loves ice cream more than
visiting but I'm tired. So my tiredness following the but suggests
that tomorrow morning when I'm not tired I'll be able to explain that
one better ;-)
If there's no connection between the two aspects, then "and" is more
appropriate. The two are just two disconnected qualities of some
object: "Ren is disorganized and artistic," "The paper is rough and
it grabs color well."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> How about "Ren is really disorganized but she's really artistic"...isYes, it does. For "but" to make sense in those sentences, it's
> that really negating anything? Nope. It's just a qualifier.
>
> "That paper is a bit rough, BUT it grabs color really well"
> "Kelly Green may be a bit bright, BUT if you add some yellow it will
> tone it down"
> "Jalen would love to visit, BUT he would rather go get ice cream"
>
> But doesn't negate anything in many cases.
assumed someone would draw a conclusion from the first part that the
second isn't possible so the "but" negates that conclusion.
The assumption of the first sentence is that disorganization gets in
the way of creativity, so you're saying "You might assume that since
Ren's so disorganized that she can't possibly be creative, BUT you'd
be wrong."
In the second that rough paper doesn't absorb well, so you're saying
"You might assume because that paper is rough that it wouldn't grab
color well BUT this particular paper does."
In the third it seems obvious that Jalen loves ice cream more than
visiting but I'm tired. So my tiredness following the but suggests
that tomorrow morning when I'm not tired I'll be able to explain that
one better ;-)
If there's no connection between the two aspects, then "and" is more
appropriate. The two are just two disconnected qualities of some
object: "Ren is disorganized and artistic," "The paper is rough and
it grabs color well."
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]