trouble with other kids
[email protected]
I seem to be a magnet for the kids that cause chaos. Right now, there is a
neighborhood girl named Ally, 8, that always seems to cause problems. It
isn't that she is obviously a problem, but the problems tend to come up when
she is around. I guess you could say she is an instigator, she does not
share.....at all (I'm not kidding), and she will always do something I have just
asked her not to do the moment my back is turned. She tells my 5 year old
constantly to "not tell her mommy." She has scratched my car, broken various
toys and items like fishing poles and plays very rough games.
So far my strategy has to been to not let them play unless I am outside (she
is no longer allowed in the house as she destroyed it the two times she was
in). This works OK except she is outside from the minute she is home from
school until dark. She has pretty much been turned away from the other houses.
I also thought she was moving this summer, but now I don't think she is.
So I need a new strategy.
I've tried to enlist my kid's help, but they say they just tend to forget
what is appropriate behavior when she is around. For instance, my daughter
would never eat a wild berry without asking, yet Ally made her eat one by
pestering her until she did it. My kids would never climb on top of a car to have
a picnic, yet that is where I found them today.
I don't have these issues with the other neighbor kids. Any advise on how
to keep our happy unschooling family safe from this girl?
Thanks, Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
neighborhood girl named Ally, 8, that always seems to cause problems. It
isn't that she is obviously a problem, but the problems tend to come up when
she is around. I guess you could say she is an instigator, she does not
share.....at all (I'm not kidding), and she will always do something I have just
asked her not to do the moment my back is turned. She tells my 5 year old
constantly to "not tell her mommy." She has scratched my car, broken various
toys and items like fishing poles and plays very rough games.
So far my strategy has to been to not let them play unless I am outside (she
is no longer allowed in the house as she destroyed it the two times she was
in). This works OK except she is outside from the minute she is home from
school until dark. She has pretty much been turned away from the other houses.
I also thought she was moving this summer, but now I don't think she is.
So I need a new strategy.
I've tried to enlist my kid's help, but they say they just tend to forget
what is appropriate behavior when she is around. For instance, my daughter
would never eat a wild berry without asking, yet Ally made her eat one by
pestering her until she did it. My kids would never climb on top of a car to have
a picnic, yet that is where I found them today.
I don't have these issues with the other neighbor kids. Any advise on how
to keep our happy unschooling family safe from this girl?
Thanks, Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>Any advise on how to keep our happy unschooling family safe from this girl?>>Have you talked with the girl's parents? Not in an accusing way, but just to let them know what's been going on? Would they be open to that?
In any case, I'd talk directly with the girl and spell out the kind of behavior that's okay at your home. If she wants to play there, she has to behave along the guidelines of your family. I'd also be around when she's there supervising until you feel comfortable that she gets what is expected of her.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Leslie530@...
Joanne
I don't know if this helps but when my kids have friends that are
kinda out of control in my house, we get together at a park. That
way they get to hang out and my house is not trashed.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
kinda out of control in my house, we get together at a park. That
way they get to hang out and my house is not trashed.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
--- In [email protected], Leslie530@... wrote:
>
> I seem to be a magnet for the kids that cause chaos. Right now,
there is a
> neighborhood girl named Ally, 8, that always seems to cause
problems. It
> isn't that she is obviously a problem, but the problems tend to
come up when
> she is around. I guess you could say she is an instigator, she
does not
> share.....at all (I'm not kidding), and she will always do
something I have just
> asked her not to do the moment my back is turned. She tells my 5
year old
> constantly to "not tell her mommy." She has scratched my car,
broken various
> toys and items like fishing poles and plays very rough games.
>
> So far my strategy has to been to not let them play unless I am
outside (she
> is no longer allowed in the house as she destroyed it the two
times she was
> in). This works OK except she is outside from the minute she is
home from
> school until dark. She has pretty much been turned away from the
other houses.
> I also thought she was moving this summer, but now I don't think
she is.
> So I need a new strategy.
>
> I've tried to enlist my kid's help, but they say they just tend to
forget
> what is appropriate behavior when she is around. For instance, my
daughter
> would never eat a wild berry without asking, yet Ally made her eat
one by
> pestering her until she did it. My kids would never climb on top
of a car to have
> a picnic, yet that is where I found them today.
>
> I don't have these issues with the other neighbor kids. Any
advise on how
> to keep our happy unschooling family safe from this girl?
>
> Thanks, Leslie in SC
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
trektheory
Do your kids really want to play with her? Seriously, they may not
realize they have the option not to. My son used to be like that.
Otherwise -- logical consequences, part of which is letting her
parents know what is going on. Or only allowing her over WITH one
of her parents to help supervise. I suspect that they send her over
to play so that they get unpaid babysitting. I've seen it before.
If she damages your car -- might not the parents want to know, since
if it was my child (and I can't imagine him doing destructive things
intentionally), I would want to know and to make reparations -- and
have him work it out.
BTW, the fact that she told your kids not to tell you something is a
huge red flag. One thing I read somewhere that I thought was a
really neat way of discussing secrets -- there is no such thing as a
secret you can't tell anyone. If it is a surprise for Mom, then you
can share it with Dad or Grandma or some such. (I know, it veered a
bit off the topic, but it reminded me of that, and it is such a
really good way to help them understand the difference between good
secrets and "don't tell".
Linda
realize they have the option not to. My son used to be like that.
Otherwise -- logical consequences, part of which is letting her
parents know what is going on. Or only allowing her over WITH one
of her parents to help supervise. I suspect that they send her over
to play so that they get unpaid babysitting. I've seen it before.
If she damages your car -- might not the parents want to know, since
if it was my child (and I can't imagine him doing destructive things
intentionally), I would want to know and to make reparations -- and
have him work it out.
BTW, the fact that she told your kids not to tell you something is a
huge red flag. One thing I read somewhere that I thought was a
really neat way of discussing secrets -- there is no such thing as a
secret you can't tell anyone. If it is a surprise for Mom, then you
can share it with Dad or Grandma or some such. (I know, it veered a
bit off the topic, but it reminded me of that, and it is such a
really good way to help them understand the difference between good
secrets and "don't tell".
Linda
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/2006 6:51:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
Have you talked with the girl's parents? Not in an accusing way, but just to
let them know what's been going on? Would they be open to that?
*************
The parents are borderline neglectful. Some of the neighbors have tried to
speak to them and haven't gotten anywhere. Plus, there is the suspect of
really bad parenting and no one wants her to get in trouble.
***In any case, I'd talk directly with the girl and spell out the kind of
behavior that's okay at your home. If she wants to play there, she has to behave
along the guidelines of your family. I'd also be around when she's there
supervising until you feel comfortable that she gets what is expected of
her.*********
True. I guess my problem here is trying to figure out how to define
appropriate behavior to her. She seems to have few boundaries, I would have never
dreamed how to be proactive about the picnic on the car! I do feel like I
follow her around saying "don't do that". She takes everyday activities and
makes them unsafe. I have had my trampoline for years, I have a net and no
child has ever fallen. She fell off twice in one day....somehow throwing herself
through the access flap!!
I'm thinking I'll have to set a time limit on her visits. Unfortunately, I
cannot be outside from 3 to 9 each day! This is also difficult as the other
neighborhood kids don't need this type of supervision and my own kids love
being with these friends so much! So is it that only Ally has to leave?
Joanne, you suggested meeting at a park. Good idea (which I'll remember for
the future) but here the neighborhood kids are all riding bikes and going
from house to house to play. Plus, her parents wouldn't take her.
A neighbor told me today that she thinks Ally is going to her dad's house
for summer break....6 weeks as the kids here are in year round school. Maybe
that will be enough for some good changes to come!
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
Have you talked with the girl's parents? Not in an accusing way, but just to
let them know what's been going on? Would they be open to that?
*************
The parents are borderline neglectful. Some of the neighbors have tried to
speak to them and haven't gotten anywhere. Plus, there is the suspect of
really bad parenting and no one wants her to get in trouble.
***In any case, I'd talk directly with the girl and spell out the kind of
behavior that's okay at your home. If she wants to play there, she has to behave
along the guidelines of your family. I'd also be around when she's there
supervising until you feel comfortable that she gets what is expected of
her.*********
True. I guess my problem here is trying to figure out how to define
appropriate behavior to her. She seems to have few boundaries, I would have never
dreamed how to be proactive about the picnic on the car! I do feel like I
follow her around saying "don't do that". She takes everyday activities and
makes them unsafe. I have had my trampoline for years, I have a net and no
child has ever fallen. She fell off twice in one day....somehow throwing herself
through the access flap!!
I'm thinking I'll have to set a time limit on her visits. Unfortunately, I
cannot be outside from 3 to 9 each day! This is also difficult as the other
neighborhood kids don't need this type of supervision and my own kids love
being with these friends so much! So is it that only Ally has to leave?
Joanne, you suggested meeting at a park. Good idea (which I'll remember for
the future) but here the neighborhood kids are all riding bikes and going
from house to house to play. Plus, her parents wouldn't take her.
A neighbor told me today that she thinks Ally is going to her dad's house
for summer break....6 weeks as the kids here are in year round school. Maybe
that will be enough for some good changes to come!
Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/2006 9:03:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
trektheory@... writes:
Do your kids really want to play with her? Seriously, they may not
realize they have the option not to. My son used to be like that.
Otherwise -- logical consequences, part of which is letting her
parents know what is going on. Or only allowing her over WITH one
of her parents to help supervise. I suspect that they send her over
to play so that they get unpaid babysitting. I've seen it before.
*********
Yes, they want to play with her. Wish they didn't.
Never seen her parents up close, wouldn't know them if they knocked on my
door.
As far as damages, she hasn't done any damage worth getting the parents
involved. But I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Maybe I should ask the parents for babysitting money. Maybe they'll tell her
she can't play over here anymore!! Perhaps me and the other mom's should
send a note saying that since we are watching her, we want to be paid for it!
And you are right, Linda. The minute I heard that she was saying "don't
tell your mom", I got even less trustful of this child! Good idea about the
secret thing.
Thanks, Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory@... writes:
Do your kids really want to play with her? Seriously, they may not
realize they have the option not to. My son used to be like that.
Otherwise -- logical consequences, part of which is letting her
parents know what is going on. Or only allowing her over WITH one
of her parents to help supervise. I suspect that they send her over
to play so that they get unpaid babysitting. I've seen it before.
*********
Yes, they want to play with her. Wish they didn't.
Never seen her parents up close, wouldn't know them if they knocked on my
door.
As far as damages, she hasn't done any damage worth getting the parents
involved. But I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Maybe I should ask the parents for babysitting money. Maybe they'll tell her
she can't play over here anymore!! Perhaps me and the other mom's should
send a note saying that since we are watching her, we want to be paid for it!
And you are right, Linda. The minute I heard that she was saying "don't
tell your mom", I got even less trustful of this child! Good idea about the
secret thing.
Thanks, Leslie in SC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
This is such an interesting thread.
I have been the neighborhood house. And we have especially attracted
wilder kids at our house. Perhaps because we are a bit wild.
I think you need to set boundaries you are comfortable with. Like
she can play for an hour and then direct your family to another
activity for a bit.
I always looked at it as a chance to do some good modeling. It may
be the way she chooses to be a better parent. But setting boundaries
that work for you is part of that modelling.
As far as picnic on the cars and dangerous activities be very clear
why that does not work. One danger, two a dent in the car hood would
be costly. Ask where else would be a fun spot for a picnic.
As far as the trampoline, I would be sure to ask her parents to sign
a release. I would also be certain to say, if she falls out, or off,
that perhaps she needs to do something else for a time.
It becomes very interesting with an unschooling philosophy to
continue to model and set boundaries where everyone is safe and we
are being respected. I have struggled to not be a dormat while still
empowering my kids. It seems the ones who try to take advantage are
often their schooled friends.
I think the secret area is a great chance for a talk. I would be
very clear in front of all of the kids why you think secrets are not
a good idea. Also how you want to hear what your kids are doing so
you can help them do what they want to do. Just let her know it is
your job as their mom to help them get done the things that they
want to and to make sure everyone is safe doing it. Then talk about
what kinds of secrets are fun for you, like birthday secrets or
party secrets.
Also it really is okay for you to say not today. But if all the
neighborhood kids are out I see your challenge. Perhaps just
changing the pace and playing for a bit and then loading in the car
and going for icecream, or to the mall or park to change to pace for
your kids.
Those are all my ideas. Toss them all if they do not apply.
Kathleen
I have been the neighborhood house. And we have especially attracted
wilder kids at our house. Perhaps because we are a bit wild.
I think you need to set boundaries you are comfortable with. Like
she can play for an hour and then direct your family to another
activity for a bit.
I always looked at it as a chance to do some good modeling. It may
be the way she chooses to be a better parent. But setting boundaries
that work for you is part of that modelling.
As far as picnic on the cars and dangerous activities be very clear
why that does not work. One danger, two a dent in the car hood would
be costly. Ask where else would be a fun spot for a picnic.
As far as the trampoline, I would be sure to ask her parents to sign
a release. I would also be certain to say, if she falls out, or off,
that perhaps she needs to do something else for a time.
It becomes very interesting with an unschooling philosophy to
continue to model and set boundaries where everyone is safe and we
are being respected. I have struggled to not be a dormat while still
empowering my kids. It seems the ones who try to take advantage are
often their schooled friends.
I think the secret area is a great chance for a talk. I would be
very clear in front of all of the kids why you think secrets are not
a good idea. Also how you want to hear what your kids are doing so
you can help them do what they want to do. Just let her know it is
your job as their mom to help them get done the things that they
want to and to make sure everyone is safe doing it. Then talk about
what kinds of secrets are fun for you, like birthday secrets or
party secrets.
Also it really is okay for you to say not today. But if all the
neighborhood kids are out I see your challenge. Perhaps just
changing the pace and playing for a bit and then loading in the car
and going for icecream, or to the mall or park to change to pace for
your kids.
Those are all my ideas. Toss them all if they do not apply.
Kathleen
[email protected]
>>So is it that only Ally has to leave?>>If it's unhealthy or unsafe for your children to have her around then I would say yes. I'd work with her awhile, informing her of the principles in your home. But I'd also explain that if she can't be there in a safe manner, she'll have to go home.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Leslie530@...
[email protected]
Hi,
A few things I would think about.
If her behavior outside your home with your kids is potentially dangerous, find a way to be outside the whole time they play, and if you can't bring your kids in, even if it is for a potty break. I have a son who can not always maintain his peaceful self outside and neighbor kids sometimes trigger him into explosive behavior. As much as I would like to be doing something else sometimes, I have to be an open ear outside because it does help avoid these types of problems. Often I garden, or read a book, or work in my journal, so I am not directly involved in active play. Other times I take the active role and ride bikes too and get to know the other kids. My presence completely changes the dynamics, and really, I have gotten to enjoy this role, it helps my son feel safe and I have gotten to know the kids dynamics on a real level.
Her parents do need to know what is going on and maybe they need help too, so finding a way to be a helpful neighbor, concerned, and open might help. Maybe as a whole neighborhood, coming together, with kindness for the child. Also, letting the child know clearly when they have crossed the safety boundries. I find I can comunicate very well with the neighbor kids because I have gotten to know them. Also, maybe invite her over when you have total time to focus, do something fun together to help her have successful visits.
When she was on the tram, were you watching to see what she did to get thrown out? I bet, if she is at all like my son, she may have challenged herself to get thrown out. I like the contract, but if her family is as you allude, she'll probably just get in trouble for even being on a tramp.
One other approach, if you know any of the mom's with kids in school, have them talk with her teacher to see what might be up. The girl who was wild here (they moved) was on a very high level of ritalin and on bipolar meds and I got info about her from a teacher friend which helped me interact with her. When I saw K getting way out of bounds, I knew she was choosing to come off her meds without her parents knowing and it made me way more compassionate towards her. Often what K needed was direct adult 1 on 1 interaction, so if we were outside, I would engage her in dialogue and she would talk a mile a minute and all the kids could play without K doing, saying something inappropriate. And we sent just her home sometimes, because my son could not tolerate her when she got out of control.
My thoughts and stories from similar situation here. My son is 9 and I still stay outside and watch him play with anyone. It just is what works for his own safety. It is not an optional thing.
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A few things I would think about.
If her behavior outside your home with your kids is potentially dangerous, find a way to be outside the whole time they play, and if you can't bring your kids in, even if it is for a potty break. I have a son who can not always maintain his peaceful self outside and neighbor kids sometimes trigger him into explosive behavior. As much as I would like to be doing something else sometimes, I have to be an open ear outside because it does help avoid these types of problems. Often I garden, or read a book, or work in my journal, so I am not directly involved in active play. Other times I take the active role and ride bikes too and get to know the other kids. My presence completely changes the dynamics, and really, I have gotten to enjoy this role, it helps my son feel safe and I have gotten to know the kids dynamics on a real level.
Her parents do need to know what is going on and maybe they need help too, so finding a way to be a helpful neighbor, concerned, and open might help. Maybe as a whole neighborhood, coming together, with kindness for the child. Also, letting the child know clearly when they have crossed the safety boundries. I find I can comunicate very well with the neighbor kids because I have gotten to know them. Also, maybe invite her over when you have total time to focus, do something fun together to help her have successful visits.
When she was on the tram, were you watching to see what she did to get thrown out? I bet, if she is at all like my son, she may have challenged herself to get thrown out. I like the contract, but if her family is as you allude, she'll probably just get in trouble for even being on a tramp.
One other approach, if you know any of the mom's with kids in school, have them talk with her teacher to see what might be up. The girl who was wild here (they moved) was on a very high level of ritalin and on bipolar meds and I got info about her from a teacher friend which helped me interact with her. When I saw K getting way out of bounds, I knew she was choosing to come off her meds without her parents knowing and it made me way more compassionate towards her. Often what K needed was direct adult 1 on 1 interaction, so if we were outside, I would engage her in dialogue and she would talk a mile a minute and all the kids could play without K doing, saying something inappropriate. And we sent just her home sometimes, because my son could not tolerate her when she got out of control.
My thoughts and stories from similar situation here. My son is 9 and I still stay outside and watch him play with anyone. It just is what works for his own safety. It is not an optional thing.
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/2006 12:07:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mfhickman@... writes:
My thoughts and stories from similar situation here. My son is 9 and I still
stay outside and watch him play with anyone. It just is what works for his
own safety. It is not an optional thing.
Mary
*********
Mary, I have mulled over what you are saying. I agree with you, but I
realize I just cannot do it at this time. My own life is overwhelming to me and
I've got much bigger issues to deal with. This is why is was so wonderful
that my children could finally play outside without me sitting right there! I
just need time to focus on other things....seriously.....not just "me time".
The stable future of my family depends on it.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that she will be leaving for the summer in
the next few days. If not, I will have to keep working on another plan, like
limiting her time here to an hour.
BTW, she has lived in my neighborhood for 18 months. In that time, several
compassionate neighbors had been trying to do as you suggested. She
eventually wore them out and they will now only allow Ally limited time with their
own children. It is easier for them as they are really busy with after school
activities that keep them away from home.
More reason to move to acreage in the middle of nowhere!!!
Thanks everybody.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mfhickman@... writes:
My thoughts and stories from similar situation here. My son is 9 and I still
stay outside and watch him play with anyone. It just is what works for his
own safety. It is not an optional thing.
Mary
*********
Mary, I have mulled over what you are saying. I agree with you, but I
realize I just cannot do it at this time. My own life is overwhelming to me and
I've got much bigger issues to deal with. This is why is was so wonderful
that my children could finally play outside without me sitting right there! I
just need time to focus on other things....seriously.....not just "me time".
The stable future of my family depends on it.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that she will be leaving for the summer in
the next few days. If not, I will have to keep working on another plan, like
limiting her time here to an hour.
BTW, she has lived in my neighborhood for 18 months. In that time, several
compassionate neighbors had been trying to do as you suggested. She
eventually wore them out and they will now only allow Ally limited time with their
own children. It is easier for them as they are really busy with after school
activities that keep them away from home.
More reason to move to acreage in the middle of nowhere!!!
Thanks everybody.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]