Ren Allen

"Perhaps if it were easier for him to get his own foods that were
healthy he would eat them more. It is so easy to pull out a cookie
or a popsicle or fruit leather. Not so easy for him to get out
veggies or fuits or even open a cheese stick. Hmmm....I'm going to
make a bowl in the fridge and a bowl in the cupboard of good stuff
that he can have free access to and see how it goes.....I'll keep you
posted!"


You're onto something Jonell!:)
I sure know that when I want a munchie or sweet fix, I go for what
is readily available...so do kids.
We often put out platters of cut up fruits, veggies, dips, crackers,
cheese etc... and just leave it for whomever needs a "fix". It gets
eaten, I can promise that. Sometimes certain things get ignored, but
I can tell you that children need to graze, and if you make many
choices available, they will quickly learn to listen to their bodies.

I don't have unlimited money either, so I do have to say no. But I
try to make sure the "no" is not arbitrary or reactionary, but for
real reasons. I also like sharing our money with the kids, so when I
don't have it in the budget, they still have control over their
choices.

We eat sweets and "junk food", but I've learned that giving them
true choices means letting go of my preconcieved notions of what a
healthy diet consists of. I look around at all the people in my life
I consider mindful and healthy, and realize they all eat VERY
differently! My children will find what makes sense to them, their
journey is uniquely their own. I trust them to make good choices for
their lives, and that trust is essential in opening true dialogue.
They don't make the choices I would, but that's good.:) I'm a
certified health freak...not everyone should have to eat or live
like me, my kids included.

Ren

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/31/2004 11:59:13 PM US Eastern Standard Time, starsuncloud@... writes:


They don't make the choices I would, but that's good.:) I'm a
certified health freak...not everyone should have to eat or live
like me, my kids included.

Ren


you know you have a point there..everyone has to find their''place''...food choices included,,,i made sure my kids all know how to take care of their personal needs,,like laundry,,cleaning up after theirselves,,etc,,,i could be a clean freak..but i look at it like this,our personal spaces ie,bedrooms are ours and theirs,,i like them to be clean enough that nothing is living off anything in their rooms.
thats hard in a house with teen boyz who think if they can close the bedroom door it is clean,,,and for the most part ,,i leave it at thaT,i figure if someone looks past their closed door they deserve to see it ,,lol,,
June

pam sorooshian

One of the most clear explanations of the development of the
distinction between unschooling and homeschooling is available on the
FUN website (Family Unschoolers Network) by Billy Greer. It starts like
this:

"What is the difference between unschooling and homeschooling? At one
time they were just two terms for the same thing, so the question was
like asking what the difference is between a car and an automobile.
Today, homeschooling has remained a generic term while unschooling has
come to refer to a specific type of homeschooling. So now the question
is like asking what the difference is between a Ferrari and a car.
Just what is it about unschooling that differentiates it from other
types of homeschooling enough to warrant its own term?"

and later in the article:
"Homeschooling carries an implication of schooling-at-home, while
unschooling connotes that what you are doing is the opposite of
school. People who accepted the teaching techniques of school but
wanted more control over the subject matter, socialization, or morals
that their children were exposed to might readily accept the term
homeschooling. People who disliked the teaching techniques and
environment of school might be more inclined to use the term
unschooling."

The link to the rest of it is:
<http://unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm>

While you're there, it is well worth your time to browse through all
the back issues of FUN News. Great stuff.

-pam

Helen Hegener

At 1:47 AM -0700 6/1/04, pam sorooshian wrote:
>One of the most clear explanations of the development of the
>distinction between unschooling and homeschooling is available on the
>FUN website (Family Unschoolers Network) by Billy Greer. It starts like
>this:

I've read that one many times before, and I agree with Billy right up
to this point:

>and later in the article:
>"Homeschooling carries an implication of schooling-at-home,

There is no good reason why homeschooling should carry any such
implication. None.

> while unschooling connotes that what you are doing is the opposite of
>school. People who accepted the teaching techniques of school but
>wanted more control over the subject matter, socialization, or morals
>that their children were exposed to might readily accept the term
>homeschooling. People who disliked the teaching techniques and
>environment of school might be more inclined to use the term
>unschooling."

I would add that this is only one man's opinion, and while I respect
his right to voice it, I would add that my friend Billy also has a
vested interest in the word 'unschooling.'

Helen

Buck and Brisco Jones

***There is no good reason why homeschooling should carry any such
implication. None.***

There are lots of reasons people think of school at home when they think
of homeschooling. Here are just a few.

Abeka, Alpha Omega, Bob Jones, Calvert, TRISMS, Sonlight, Heart of
Wisdom, Student of the World, Robinson Curriculum, LIFEPAC, Horizons,
Konos, Weaver, Oak Meadow, Saxon... ~

I can't find my last issue of HEM right now but don't you sell ad space
to curriculum providers and web based school at home programs?


Deb Lewis

Deb Lewis

HEY! Sorry those came through "Buck and Brisco Jones" Those are
characters in one of my sons stories and he was e-mailing last night it
seems.<g> Goofy.


Deb Lewis

pam sorooshian

It is clear to me that the purpose of this list is to help people
understand unschooling. I posted what Billy wrote about it as something
people NEW to the idea of unschooling might find useful in
understanding how the term came to be used. I am not interested in
wasting my time arguing about whether unschooling is a form of
homeschooling - that is just a ridiculously silly argument.
Homeschooling is clearly the broader more generic term and has come to
mean whatever education people provide kids when they're not sending
them off to a brick-and-mortar school. What Billy was writing about in
the article I quoted from was not defining unschooling as "outside" of
homeschooling. He was pointing out that "unschooling" was originally
used by John Holt in the larger sense of kids not being sent off to
school, but as "homeschooling" came to be the more commonly-used term
and replaced "unschooling" as the wider term, those who do not "do
school" chose to retain "unschooling" as a description of what they
were doing.

If you read the rest of the article, which I provided the link to,
<http://unschooling.org/fun12_unschooling.htm>
Billy goes on to say:
<Currently, homeschooling is considered to span a spectrum from those
who school-at-home to those who unschool. >

I'm not here to argue about such a silly question as whether
unschooling is distinct from homeschooling. I don't understand why
anybody wants to argue about it. Homeschooling encompasses an
infinitely wide range of options, unschooling among them. I'm here to
talk about unschooling - what it is, what is "natural" about it, how it
works, what the life of unschooling families is like, will kids really
learn what they need to learn, can unschooled kids go to college, will
they know how to take instruction, what is the role of the
parent-facilitator, what about teenagers, how do we provide legal
records, transcripts, and where the term itself originated.

-pam

On Jun 1, 2004, at 4:50 AM, Helen Hegener wrote:

> At 1:47 AM -0700 6/1/04, pam sorooshian wrote:
>> One of the most clear explanations of the development of the
>> distinction between unschooling and homeschooling is available on the
>> FUN website (Family Unschoolers Network) by Billy Greer. It starts
>> like
>> this:
>
> I've read that one many times before, and I agree with Billy right up
> to this point:
>
>> and later in the article:
>> "Homeschooling carries an implication of schooling-at-home,
>
> There is no good reason why homeschooling should carry any such
> implication. None.
>
>> while unschooling connotes that what you are doing is the opposite
>> of
>> school. People who accepted the teaching techniques of school but
>> wanted more control over the subject matter, socialization, or morals
>> that their children were exposed to might readily accept the term
>> homeschooling. People who disliked the teaching techniques and
>> environment of school might be more inclined to use the term
>> unschooling."
>
> I would add that this is only one man's opinion, and while I respect
> his right to voice it, I would add that my friend Billy also has a
> vested interest in the word 'unschooling.'
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/1/2004 1:57:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pamsoroosh@... writes:
I'm not here to argue about such a silly question as whether
unschooling is distinct from homeschooling. I don't understand why
anybody wants to argue about it. Homeschooling encompasses an
infinitely wide range of options, unschooling among them.  I'm here to
talk about unschooling - what it is, what is "natural" about it, how it
works, what the life of unschooling families is like, will kids really
learn what they need to learn, can unschooled kids go to college, will
they know how to take instruction, what is the role of the
parent-facilitator, what about teenagers, how do we provide legal
records, transcripts, and where the term itself originated.<<<<
 
Thank you, Pam! Me too!
 
~Kelly

 
 

[email protected]

Melissa,
I think your Mum has a good point...and I do think there are many forms of control, not all of them so overt. Simple disapproval can be a form of control.

" I have always
considered myself a deeply committed, highly involved/aware, but not
overbearing or smothering parent (I know some of those!). "

You were. You are. (I'm guessing from what you've written). We can only our best with the information we have, not what we are going to have!:) And not all of our philosophies on parenting or life, are completely formed at ANY time...it's a journey, not a destination.
If your experience has led you to seeing that maybe there has been too much control, then you alter things to fit your lives better. You couldn't have done any differently without new philosophies or thoughts coming along!
And if it makes you feel any better, I was a MAJOR food controller. Not over amounts, but over "quality". I'm a health freak, I probably always will be to varying degrees. So it was a hard issue for me to let go of...I still cringe when they load up on chips with hydrogenated oils and try to buy healthy alternatives. But I did finally come to the conclusion that eating crappy stuff really won't affect their overall health. They live in a household where I'm being aware of what I eat and they know about choices if their food ever negatively affects them.
They'll make their own connections about the diet that fits them best.

I'll tell you what helped me more than anything....to see JOY as the most important factor in any diet. To realize that a twinkie eaten with happiness in the heart, is healthier than a salad eaten in stress. A light went on for me, and it was a HUGE awakening. To see that EMOTIONAL health is probably the single most important factor in a persons overall health. So I focus on what helps us all live happy, interesting and joyful lives. If there's a food that they really want, that's part of a joyful exploration, not something to make them feel guilty about.

You'll find your way, just enjoy being where you are right now and remember: "Every new thing she learned became part of her, to be used over and over in new adventures" :)

Ren

Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/

pam sorooshian

On Jun 2, 2004, at 9:38 AM, starsuncloud@... wrote:

> I'll tell you what helped me more than anything....to see JOY as the
> most important factor in any diet. To realize that a twinkie eaten
> with happiness in the heart, is healthier than a salad eaten in
> stress. A light went on for me, and it was a HUGE awakening. To see
> that EMOTIONAL health is probably the single most important factor in
> a persons overall health.

THIS was the big "AHA" moment for me regarding TV. I got this sudden
HUGE gasping insight that I was nagging my husband to stop doing
something he LOVED to do - watch sports on TV. ICK - what was I
thinking? I wasn't - I'd been brainwashed by the anti-tv forces into
thinking that not watching any tv was a magic bullet to having smart
kids.

The magic bullet turns out to be mindful parenting, an examined life -
thoughtful conversation, play, togetherness, thinking and loving all
the time.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

melissazietlow

> I'll tell you what helped me more than anything....to see JOY as
the most important factor in any diet. To realize that a twinkie
eaten with happiness in the heart, is healthier than a salad eaten in
stress. A light went on for me, and it was a HUGE awakening. To see
that EMOTIONAL health is probably the single most important factor in
a persons overall health. So I focus on what helps us all live happy,
interesting and joyful lives. If there's a food that they really
want, that's part of a joyful exploration, not something to make them
feel guilty about.


Very interesting that you say this. Here is something I posted on
another list and the response:

>>I have even speculated that weight problems and other 'dietary'
health issues are made manifest by guilt or other feelings associated
with food, and not really with the food itself (metaphysics?). Ugh!<<

> I suspect that most people who assure you that children will self
regulate base it on the fact that they've seen it happen and a belief
that the above is often the case with those who "know" the right way
to eat and don't do it.


I will be seriously pondering this one!

Thanks,
Melissa Z.

melissazietlow

--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
> THIS was the big "AHA" moment for me

> The magic bullet turns out to be mindful parenting, an examined
life - thoughtful conversation, play, togetherness, thinking and
loving all the time.


I think I may have found my AHA...!

Melissa Z.

Helen Hegener

At 10:24 AM -0600 6/1/04, Buck and Brisco Jones wrote:
>***There is no good reason why homeschooling should carry any such
>implication. None.***
>
>There are lots of reasons people think of school at home when they think
>of homeschooling. Here are just a few.
>
> Abeka, Alpha Omega, Bob Jones, Calvert, TRISMS, Sonlight, Heart of
>Wisdom, Student of the World, Robinson Curriculum, LIFEPAC, Horizons,
>Konos, Weaver, Oak Meadow, Saxon... ~

That is simply a perception that has been allowed to develop.
Perceptions can be changed if people care enough to do so.

>I can't find my last issue of HEM right now but don't you sell ad space
>to curriculum providers and web based school at home programs?

We sell ad space to almost anyone who wants to purchase it. That does
not make them the definition of homeschooling.

Helen

Joanna Wilkinson

>
> We sell ad space to almost anyone who wants to purchase it. That
does
> not make them the definition of homeschooling.
>
> Helen

Really!?
I guess I was naive.
I assumed there was atleast a little support behind the people you
let advertise in your magazine.
Wow.
I actually looked through your magazine when my dd said she wanted
to try high school and thought it was a good resource to go to, to
find programs that might help her.
:-/

Joanna

Helen Hegener

At 2:55 AM +0000 6/4/04, Joanna Wilkinson wrote:
> >
>> We sell ad space to almost anyone who wants to purchase it. That
>does
>> not make them the definition of homeschooling.
>>
>> Helen
>
>Really!?
>I guess I was naive.
>I assumed there was atleast a little support behind the people you
>let advertise in your magazine.

Why is that?

We run the normal "Let the buyer beware" disclaimer on the front
pages of every issue.

Otherwise our advertisers received unparalleled support.

Helen