Transition from "chores"???
Tina
Some of you may know that our family is a combination of different
educational and living styles. Adrian and I are the only "real"
unschoolers in our family. I'm the appointed chore police officer,
and I hate it! Pat works away from home 10 hours a day plus he does
side jobs some nights. He's a transmission mechanic, and a very good
one, so he's always got work. I stay home and care for and
educate/facilitate learning for the kids, depending on which child
and what time of year your talking about.
We have grown to have two VERY different ideas of parenting. He is
very much the authoritive parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail. Five of the kids are his, and two are mine, so
we're a little out numbered. Since becoming a "real" unschooler and
implementing the way of life into more than just my days with Adrian
things have improved. That is, MY relationship with the kids, not
his, as he does not even have a clue. He spends A LOT of time being
angry about this or that.
When it comes down to it, I've always been an unschooler in many
aspects of my life and philosophies. I just didn't know it had a
word. The thing of it is that I have to operate around certain
parameters. Those being kids in public school and a "partner" that
has no clue about how to have a real relationship with his children
and how to live in a fun and relaxed manner with them.
What my current dilemma is and what I'd like to figure out is our
household chore schedule. How have any of you made the transition
from having assigned chores to not having any? We actually have a
system that works rather well for us, but it's no longer working for
me. (The kids each have a room for a week then they switch. That
way no one has to do something they don't like for very long and very
often. That means that if you just had bathroom you won't have it
again for over a month.) See, when a certain few of our kids that
don't ever want to help out at all or even pick up after themselves
don't do their part, then I get the blame for it, and it's a big deal.
I'm reaching a point that it's not worth the battle. I'm already
pooped. I'd love to not have to follow said chid/ren around to make
sure they did what they were supposed to do so that dad doesn't blow
his top. It's ridiculous! I'm worried that if I just say, "No one
has chores anymore!" our house would fall apart. I will be the one
responsible for EVERYTHING. There are NINE of us. One child in
particular, 16 yrs, is terrible about taking care of her stuff and
the house. It effects our whole household. I'm all for them being
able to be slobs as long as it isn't ruining someone elses day, ie if
their bedrooms are trashed, but he won't even let that go. How do
you achieve that? How do you have order when no one is expected to
do anything? Is it possible to transition from the one extreme to
the other when life has been that way for so long? I know it would
be no biggie if it were just me and my two. We can live together
like that easily, but we get it. How do you do it with so many that
don't? Is it possible?
For those of you that have been there, done that, what have you done
that worked and didn't work in your family, and why?
For those of you that are just life experts from education, reading,
what have you, what is your opinion, and why?
I'd love to hear from all of you on this. Shine some light for me.
My sanity is on the line...
Tina
educational and living styles. Adrian and I are the only "real"
unschoolers in our family. I'm the appointed chore police officer,
and I hate it! Pat works away from home 10 hours a day plus he does
side jobs some nights. He's a transmission mechanic, and a very good
one, so he's always got work. I stay home and care for and
educate/facilitate learning for the kids, depending on which child
and what time of year your talking about.
We have grown to have two VERY different ideas of parenting. He is
very much the authoritive parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail. Five of the kids are his, and two are mine, so
we're a little out numbered. Since becoming a "real" unschooler and
implementing the way of life into more than just my days with Adrian
things have improved. That is, MY relationship with the kids, not
his, as he does not even have a clue. He spends A LOT of time being
angry about this or that.
When it comes down to it, I've always been an unschooler in many
aspects of my life and philosophies. I just didn't know it had a
word. The thing of it is that I have to operate around certain
parameters. Those being kids in public school and a "partner" that
has no clue about how to have a real relationship with his children
and how to live in a fun and relaxed manner with them.
What my current dilemma is and what I'd like to figure out is our
household chore schedule. How have any of you made the transition
from having assigned chores to not having any? We actually have a
system that works rather well for us, but it's no longer working for
me. (The kids each have a room for a week then they switch. That
way no one has to do something they don't like for very long and very
often. That means that if you just had bathroom you won't have it
again for over a month.) See, when a certain few of our kids that
don't ever want to help out at all or even pick up after themselves
don't do their part, then I get the blame for it, and it's a big deal.
I'm reaching a point that it's not worth the battle. I'm already
pooped. I'd love to not have to follow said chid/ren around to make
sure they did what they were supposed to do so that dad doesn't blow
his top. It's ridiculous! I'm worried that if I just say, "No one
has chores anymore!" our house would fall apart. I will be the one
responsible for EVERYTHING. There are NINE of us. One child in
particular, 16 yrs, is terrible about taking care of her stuff and
the house. It effects our whole household. I'm all for them being
able to be slobs as long as it isn't ruining someone elses day, ie if
their bedrooms are trashed, but he won't even let that go. How do
you achieve that? How do you have order when no one is expected to
do anything? Is it possible to transition from the one extreme to
the other when life has been that way for so long? I know it would
be no biggie if it were just me and my two. We can live together
like that easily, but we get it. How do you do it with so many that
don't? Is it possible?
For those of you that have been there, done that, what have you done
that worked and didn't work in your family, and why?
For those of you that are just life experts from education, reading,
what have you, what is your opinion, and why?
I'd love to hear from all of you on this. Shine some light for me.
My sanity is on the line...
Tina
Robyn Coburn
<<<We have grown to have two VERY different ideas of parenting. He is
very much the authoritive parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail. Five of the kids are his, and two are mine, so
we're a little out numbered. Since becoming a "real" unschooler and
implementing the way of life into more than just my days with Adrian
things have improved. That is, MY relationship with the kids, not
his, as he does not even have a clue. He spends A LOT of time being
angry about this or that.>>>
My thought is that this is a bigger problem since it is part of the
foundation of your family life, while "chores or not" is a symptom. My
suggestion is gradual change rather than a sweeping (no pun intended)
disruption of every routine you have. I don't know how people manage in this
kind of situation where there is a truly fundamental disagreement between
the parents. Even the idea of still thinking of the family in these divided
terms must make it harder for you all.
There is a message board for Dads at www.unschooling.com and there is a
workshop for Dads at the Live and Learn Conference. My dh really enjoyed
that experience. There were some reluctant spouses there, but since the men
agreed to keep the content of the meeting confidential that is the extent of
my knowledge about the event.
There is also a message board about dealing with reluctant relatives there
too.
My dh is not reluctant by any means, and "gets it" totally. However he
sometimes is complacent, whereas I am always seeking to become more deeply
immersed in Unschooling and increase my awareness and mindfulness.
I have tried to give my dh articles, but I found out that he was
interpreting my giving him the suggestion to read stuff as a criticism of
himself. So it was making him sad, grumpy and defensive instead of open to
the ideas in the article or book. Now if I find something I think he would
appreciate, I talk to him about it first. I found he would not read a whole
book, but sometimes will look at highlighted passages. Sometimes I just read
bits out loud to him, after asking if he wants to hear it.
Good luck,
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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very much the authoritive parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail. Five of the kids are his, and two are mine, so
we're a little out numbered. Since becoming a "real" unschooler and
implementing the way of life into more than just my days with Adrian
things have improved. That is, MY relationship with the kids, not
his, as he does not even have a clue. He spends A LOT of time being
angry about this or that.>>>
My thought is that this is a bigger problem since it is part of the
foundation of your family life, while "chores or not" is a symptom. My
suggestion is gradual change rather than a sweeping (no pun intended)
disruption of every routine you have. I don't know how people manage in this
kind of situation where there is a truly fundamental disagreement between
the parents. Even the idea of still thinking of the family in these divided
terms must make it harder for you all.
There is a message board for Dads at www.unschooling.com and there is a
workshop for Dads at the Live and Learn Conference. My dh really enjoyed
that experience. There were some reluctant spouses there, but since the men
agreed to keep the content of the meeting confidential that is the extent of
my knowledge about the event.
There is also a message board about dealing with reluctant relatives there
too.
My dh is not reluctant by any means, and "gets it" totally. However he
sometimes is complacent, whereas I am always seeking to become more deeply
immersed in Unschooling and increase my awareness and mindfulness.
I have tried to give my dh articles, but I found out that he was
interpreting my giving him the suggestion to read stuff as a criticism of
himself. So it was making him sad, grumpy and defensive instead of open to
the ideas in the article or book. Now if I find something I think he would
appreciate, I talk to him about it first. I found he would not read a whole
book, but sometimes will look at highlighted passages. Sometimes I just read
bits out loud to him, after asking if he wants to hear it.
Good luck,
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release Date: 7/2/2004
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/2004 11:31:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
zoocrew@... writes:
We have grown to have two VERY different ideas of parenting. He is
very much the authoritative parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail.
****************************
Tina,
No expert here, but have you read the "reluctance folder" at the
www.unschooling.com message boards? There's lots of helpful ideas all over the place, but
that might be a place to begin.
It sounds like what you are experiencing crosses the borders of unschooling
though, too. You've got the "step" issue and you've got a spouse that may
feel he has more control in the relationship because of the "income" issue.
I have been in both places, although my dh did not bring children to our
marriage 15 years ago, I had 2. It was "touch and go" a lot of the time - you
don't have an easy road ahead of you.
I did 2 things - I continually told him "I'll take care of it" - as in,
"don't get all worked up, I've got it covered, even if it doesn't look like it on
the surface." I also got a job. Talk about your major shifts! Yikes! I
never realized how much value he placed on income contribution. It landed us in
marriage counseling for almost a year, when I started making more $$ than he
did.
Also, dh has some "anger management issues" and the older I get, the calmer
and more patient I get. We talk ..... I let him know how it makes the kids and
I feel when he gets all wound up. Sometimes I just give him "the look". It
is painfully slow progress, but I do feel we are taking teeny tiny baby steps
in the right direction. He is aware of our differences and does try to
approach life differently. He really does try. I can see it. He certainly has
things more under control than when we married. But sometimes he slips but he's
so much more aware now.
He was raised in blue collar Detroit, in a macho man neighborhood and home.
I'm sure there was a lot of damage done. I also try to remember that. The
same techniques I keep in use in gentle parenting, I try to swing over to
"gentle spousing".
Anyway, in a nutshell, what I guess I'm trying to say is BTDT and with
patience, modeling and communication, there may be some hope.
I wish you all the best - hang in there, you'll make it!
Linda S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zoocrew@... writes:
We have grown to have two VERY different ideas of parenting. He is
very much the authoritative parent. I've tried talking to him and
expressing concern and offering alternatives to the way he handles
things to no avail.
****************************
Tina,
No expert here, but have you read the "reluctance folder" at the
www.unschooling.com message boards? There's lots of helpful ideas all over the place, but
that might be a place to begin.
It sounds like what you are experiencing crosses the borders of unschooling
though, too. You've got the "step" issue and you've got a spouse that may
feel he has more control in the relationship because of the "income" issue.
I have been in both places, although my dh did not bring children to our
marriage 15 years ago, I had 2. It was "touch and go" a lot of the time - you
don't have an easy road ahead of you.
I did 2 things - I continually told him "I'll take care of it" - as in,
"don't get all worked up, I've got it covered, even if it doesn't look like it on
the surface." I also got a job. Talk about your major shifts! Yikes! I
never realized how much value he placed on income contribution. It landed us in
marriage counseling for almost a year, when I started making more $$ than he
did.
Also, dh has some "anger management issues" and the older I get, the calmer
and more patient I get. We talk ..... I let him know how it makes the kids and
I feel when he gets all wound up. Sometimes I just give him "the look". It
is painfully slow progress, but I do feel we are taking teeny tiny baby steps
in the right direction. He is aware of our differences and does try to
approach life differently. He really does try. I can see it. He certainly has
things more under control than when we married. But sometimes he slips but he's
so much more aware now.
He was raised in blue collar Detroit, in a macho man neighborhood and home.
I'm sure there was a lot of damage done. I also try to remember that. The
same techniques I keep in use in gentle parenting, I try to swing over to
"gentle spousing".
Anyway, in a nutshell, what I guess I'm trying to say is BTDT and with
patience, modeling and communication, there may be some hope.
I wish you all the best - hang in there, you'll make it!
Linda S.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
TreeGoddess
On Jul 4, 2004, at 12:34 PM, Eberwhite@... wrote:
perspective. You hit it dead on. Detroit is a very "suck it up and
deal with it" kind of place. It really is and DH and I were having a
conversation on this just the other day. Gentle parenting is
definitely FAR from the "norm" here, but we're making progress. :)
-Tracy-
> He was raised in blue collar Detroit, in a macho man neighborhood andIt's interesting to me to see Detroiters from a non-Detroiter's
> home.
> I'm sure there was a lot of damage done. I also try to remember that.
> The
> same techniques I keep in use in gentle parenting, I try to swing over
> to
> "gentle spousing".
perspective. You hit it dead on. Detroit is a very "suck it up and
deal with it" kind of place. It really is and DH and I were having a
conversation on this just the other day. Gentle parenting is
definitely FAR from the "norm" here, but we're making progress. :)
-Tracy-
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/2004 12:45:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
treegoddess@... writes:
It's interesting to me to see Detroiters from a non-Detroiter's
perspective. You hit it dead on. Detroit is a very "suck it up and
deal with it" kind of place. It really is and DH and I were having a
conversation on this just the other day. Gentle parenting is
definitely FAR from the "norm" here, but we're making progress. :)
-Tracy-
************************
Tracy, yep - he was raised in the 1950's and 60's there. The stories are
mind boggling to me (a non-Detroiter). He had relatives who hit their wives!!!!
And although he expresses disdain - no one did anything about it. They just
"sucked it up"!
Linda S.
Ann Arbor (granola loving, Birkenstock sporting, tree huggers!) <wink>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
treegoddess@... writes:
It's interesting to me to see Detroiters from a non-Detroiter's
perspective. You hit it dead on. Detroit is a very "suck it up and
deal with it" kind of place. It really is and DH and I were having a
conversation on this just the other day. Gentle parenting is
definitely FAR from the "norm" here, but we're making progress. :)
-Tracy-
************************
Tracy, yep - he was raised in the 1950's and 60's there. The stories are
mind boggling to me (a non-Detroiter). He had relatives who hit their wives!!!!
And although he expresses disdain - no one did anything about it. They just
"sucked it up"!
Linda S.
Ann Arbor (granola loving, Birkenstock sporting, tree huggers!) <wink>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tina
"I have tried to give my dh articles, but I found out that he was
interpreting my giving him the suggestion to read stuff as a
criticism of himself. So it was making him sad, grumpy and defensive
instead of open to the ideas in the article or book. Now if I find
something I think he would appreciate, I talk to him about it first.
I found he would not read a whole book, but sometimes will look at
highlighted passages. Sometimes I just read bits out loud to him,
after asking if he wants to hear it."
This is the exact problem that I encounter. He gets angry and says
that everything he does is wrong, etc. There are definate
differences between men and women and communication. It's
exhausting! I appreciate hearing how you have bridged the gap. It's
encouraging to me.
Thanks - Tina
interpreting my giving him the suggestion to read stuff as a
criticism of himself. So it was making him sad, grumpy and defensive
instead of open to the ideas in the article or book. Now if I find
something I think he would appreciate, I talk to him about it first.
I found he would not read a whole book, but sometimes will look at
highlighted passages. Sometimes I just read bits out loud to him,
after asking if he wants to hear it."
This is the exact problem that I encounter. He gets angry and says
that everything he does is wrong, etc. There are definate
differences between men and women and communication. It's
exhausting! I appreciate hearing how you have bridged the gap. It's
encouraging to me.
Thanks - Tina
Tina
> > He was raised in blue collar Detroit, in a macho man neighborhoodand home. I'm sure there was a lot of damage done. I also try to
remember that. The same techniques I keep in use in gentle parenting,
I try to swing over to "gentle spousing".>>
**It's interesting to me to see Detroiters from a non-Detroiter's
perspective. You hit it dead on. Detroit is a very "suck it up and
deal with it" kind of place. It really is and DH and I were having a
conversation on this just the other day. Gentle parenting is
definitely FAR from the "norm" here, but we're making progress. :)**
Thanks for pointing this out, guys! It's something I never thought
of, but it makes a lot of sense. He grew up with the exact same type
of up bringing. I grew up further north, Port Huron, but it's a
world of difference. I find that our ages, family life and now where
we were raised play a lot in our individual personalities, beliefs
and parenting styles. I would have never hit on this without your
insight.
Thanks - Tina
Tina
"My thought is that this is a bigger problem since it is part of the
foundation of your family life, while "chores or not" is a symptom. My
suggestion is gradual change rather than a sweeping (no pun intended)
disruption of every routine you have."
You are very right about this, and I knew it before you said it. I
have given a lot of thought to what's going on here. I guess I'm
just looking for a way to be a little more happy and a lot less
stressed. I want to be the best I can be and enable those around me,
my children, to be the best they can be.
Maybe it would be good for me to just keep up with the chore schedule
and pick up the slackwhen they don't do what they're supposed to,
like he seems to think I should. That would end the fighting, and I
would be doing less than if I just took it all over myself. Maybe
that would be a little closer to the unschooling philosophy for
everyone in our home. Maybe they would notice and take note, and
maybe not, and that's okay.
Thanks a ton - Tina
foundation of your family life, while "chores or not" is a symptom. My
suggestion is gradual change rather than a sweeping (no pun intended)
disruption of every routine you have."
You are very right about this, and I knew it before you said it. I
have given a lot of thought to what's going on here. I guess I'm
just looking for a way to be a little more happy and a lot less
stressed. I want to be the best I can be and enable those around me,
my children, to be the best they can be.
Maybe it would be good for me to just keep up with the chore schedule
and pick up the slackwhen they don't do what they're supposed to,
like he seems to think I should. That would end the fighting, and I
would be doing less than if I just took it all over myself. Maybe
that would be a little closer to the unschooling philosophy for
everyone in our home. Maybe they would notice and take note, and
maybe not, and that's okay.
Thanks a ton - Tina
[email protected]
Oh Tina, with all those kids I just have to say your dh has no buisness
blaming you for anything as far as the tidiness of the house! You've really got
your hands full. I have two boys, and one husband that just as well be one
of my kids, and i'm worn out with just them. Maybe your dh could spend a week
in your shoes and he would understand alittle better what you are going
thru?!
syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn
out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able
to learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- _John Holt_ (http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=John+Holt)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
blaming you for anything as far as the tidiness of the house! You've really got
your hands full. I have two boys, and one husband that just as well be one
of my kids, and i'm worn out with just them. Maybe your dh could spend a week
in your shoes and he would understand alittle better what you are going
thru?!
syndi
"...since we can't know what knowledge will be most needed in the future, it
is senseless to try to teach it in advance. Instead, we should try to turn
out people who love learning so much and learn so well that they will be able
to learn whatever needs to be learned."
-- _John Holt_ (http://www.quoteworld.org/author.php?thetext=John+Holt)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Krisula Moyer
I just wanted to share what happened here yesterday. I had wanted to take
the kids to the library but they were closed because of the holiday so we
started talking about what else we might do. Mondays I usually do some
cleaning up because our band comes over to practice in the evening. Dc love
band night because it fills the house with fun interesting people. I
mentioned also how the dog was recovering from an allergic reaction to fleas
and how I wanted to shampoo the carpets to get rid of any lurking there. We
all decided it would make sense to call an all out work day ( with a trip to
the mall thrown in for a video game trade).
Just then two little friends of ours called to see if they could come over.
Well, yes, they may but we're just cleaning the house today. They said
fine, we'll help. Our friends are 10 and 11 and are always wanting to come
with us whatever we're up to.
So all 5 kids (my three and 2 guests) spent 3 hours doing chores. DD made a
game out of it: Draw a chore out of a jar - Run and do as much as possible
for 15 minutes - Come back and switch if you want. In the the end the
carpets didn't get shampooed but lots of things got done I hadn't even
suggested. DD's friend organized her desk and decorated her room with her
dolls. DS's friend changed my sheets and made the bed. Between them all we
got the bathrooms cleaned and the back yard free of dog-doo. And even a bag
of trash removed from my van. We stopped every now and then to eat
something or to play the new video game but for the most part everyone just
worked.
When I took them home I thanked J and K for their help and laughed that they
should come over more often. They replied that they'd rather be at my house
cleaning than spend the day at their boring house. Go figure.
-Krisula
the kids to the library but they were closed because of the holiday so we
started talking about what else we might do. Mondays I usually do some
cleaning up because our band comes over to practice in the evening. Dc love
band night because it fills the house with fun interesting people. I
mentioned also how the dog was recovering from an allergic reaction to fleas
and how I wanted to shampoo the carpets to get rid of any lurking there. We
all decided it would make sense to call an all out work day ( with a trip to
the mall thrown in for a video game trade).
Just then two little friends of ours called to see if they could come over.
Well, yes, they may but we're just cleaning the house today. They said
fine, we'll help. Our friends are 10 and 11 and are always wanting to come
with us whatever we're up to.
So all 5 kids (my three and 2 guests) spent 3 hours doing chores. DD made a
game out of it: Draw a chore out of a jar - Run and do as much as possible
for 15 minutes - Come back and switch if you want. In the the end the
carpets didn't get shampooed but lots of things got done I hadn't even
suggested. DD's friend organized her desk and decorated her room with her
dolls. DS's friend changed my sheets and made the bed. Between them all we
got the bathrooms cleaned and the back yard free of dog-doo. And even a bag
of trash removed from my van. We stopped every now and then to eat
something or to play the new video game but for the most part everyone just
worked.
When I took them home I thanked J and K for their help and laughed that they
should come over more often. They replied that they'd rather be at my house
cleaning than spend the day at their boring house. Go figure.
-Krisula
Tina
"They replied that they'd rather be at my house cleaning than spend
the day at their boring house. Go figure."
Krisula
What a COOL experience for you!
Tina
the day at their boring house. Go figure."
Krisula
What a COOL experience for you!
Tina