Tonya Matthews

Hi,

This is our first year homeschooling and I'm learning more every
day, letting go a little every day and trying not to panic ~lol~
every day.

It's hard to trust, for me. I was schooled in a school building, I
went to college for an education degree and my kids went to ps. At
this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like. I
know I may get flamed for this but I'm working on it. There are
limits at times. When my oldest starts watching tv, he canNOT stop.
At this point in my life, it upsets me too much to let it go all day
all night. I hope this group is open enough for me to be able to
ADMIT that without serious accusations of being inadequate or the
such.

I'm admitting to it because, in our lives, for the way I know my
oldest, I worry about his downward spiral when he feels out of
control and can't switch his behavior. This can be television
watching, gaming or raging... He has always had a difficult time
transitioning and NOT turning the tv on in the first place HELPS
him, in my opinion, and his. Other screen time seems easier for him
to eventually stop. The commercials for what's coming up next keeps
him glued and he can't get away. 4-5-6 hrs later .. My kids stay up
very late, sleep in, and thrive in the nighttime hours. They eat
when they'd like, make many of their own choices about food, etc
etc. The tv thing is the biggest one right now, for us.

So the point I was making is, I feel your pain regarding
homeschooling sometimes! Some days I feel like I've made the biggest
mistake in the world. It doesn't happen often and there are more
times than not that I'm forever grateful that they are home but
there are those days. :)

We'll be at the Unschooling Convention in Peabody this weekend! It's
going to be a wild ride and I can't wait!

Regards,
Tonya
Proud mama to
Christian 5-30-95
Rory 6-9-99
Alannah 6-18-03

Andrea Roher

After lurking and occasionally posting on these lists for a while I
have come to the following conclusion. If it's a choice of limiting
one or two areas where you feel you absolutely must limit or chosing
to give up on the concept of unschooling completely, it's better to
limit what you feel you must. However, any time you post about the
necessity of limiting a particular area, you should expect this list
(and others like it) to question that necessity.

This isn't to say that you're a bad person/parent or whatever if you
feel you must limit TV or food (the most common areas). However many
people on this list have found an amazing connection to and trust in
their children by being willing to re-evaluate their felt need to
control and limit.

So, my suggestion for those who feel they'd like to unschool but just
couldn't bear letting go of the controls in a few areas is this: By
all means, take whatever stops toward unschooling you feel you can at
the moment. But keep reading (and thinking about what you read) as it
relates to the areas that you feel you need to control. It's quite
likely that in a few months or so you'll find that need to control is
disappearing. :)

On 5/23/06, Tonya Matthews <godzilla.matthews@...> wrote:
> It's hard to trust, for me. I was schooled in a school building, I
> went to college for an education degree and my kids went to ps. At
> this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like. I
> know I may get flamed for this but I'm working on it. There are
> limits at times. When my oldest starts watching tv, he canNOT stop.
> At this point in my life, it upsets me too much to let it go all day
> all night. I hope this group is open enough for me to be able to
> ADMIT that without serious accusations of being inadequate or the
> such.
>
> I'm admitting to it because, in our lives, for the way I know my
> oldest, I worry about his downward spiral when he feels out of
> control and can't switch his behavior. This can be television
> watching, gaming or raging... He has always had a difficult time
> transitioning and NOT turning the tv on in the first place HELPS
> him, in my opinion, and his. Other screen time seems easier for him
> to eventually stop. The commercials for what's coming up next keeps
> him glued and he can't get away. 4-5-6 hrs later .. My kids stay up
> very late, sleep in, and thrive in the nighttime hours. They eat
> when they'd like, make many of their own choices about food, etc
> etc. The tv thing is the biggest one right now, for us.

<snip>

> We'll be at the Unschooling Convention in Peabody this weekend! It's
> going to be a wild ride and I can't wait!

And from what I've heard, this is likely to jumpstart your ability to
trust in those last few areas.

--
Andrea L. Roher
Searching for my place in "Life, the Universe, and Everything" one day
at a time.
... maybe I've finally found it in NH! (www.FreeStateProject.org)
Visit my blog at evenstar75.blogspot.com.

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 23, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Tonya Matthews wrote:

> It's hard to trust, for me.

For most everyone!

> I was schooled in a school building,

As did 99% of the people! :-)

> At
> this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like.

Probably most of the people have something they aren't ready to let
go of.

But the list is to provide help and support for the practices someone
*has decided they want to change* not the practices they want to hold
onto.

Unfortunately that gives the impression that everyone on the list is
perfect, that it's easy to just let go of old ways and all they need
is some tips on what to do instead!

But I think a better way to look at the list is to picture everyone
with a dozen practices they're holding onto that make their own life
easier and less fearful. The practices are like balloons that support
their fears because their fears are threatening to pull them into a
bottomless abyss. They *want* to hold onto the balloons and they
can't understand why people find it so easy to let go.

It *isn't* easy to let go! It's scary! It takes some uncomfortable
self examination to let go. But what you're seeing displayed on the
list is the one balloon someone has decided to let go of. You're just
not seeing the other 11 balloons they're still holding onto ;-)

When people decide to let go, when they bring a practice to the list
that they want help with, it isn't because it's easy. It's because
they've been examining that practice in a new light and they don't
like the new vision. The new vision makes them more uncomfortable
than the fear. One of their balloons doesn't look so comforting any
more. They were only seeing the balloon part of the practice that was
holding them up and supporting their fears, but now they've seen the
lead part that was weighing down their kids and holding themselves
back. They've reached the point with that practice where they've
said, "Yes, it's scary to let go, but I can now see that where this
balloon is taking me is even scarier. And I want help letting go."

Don't assume that everyone has let go of all their balloons!

Don't assume that letting go is easy! You just haven't seen all the
self-examination that has gone on in private as people read the list
without posting. This is the list to post to when you've decided to
let go.

But it's also a good list to read to help you get to the point where
you want to let go of a practice.

It just isn't a good place to tell people why you aren't ready to let
go ;-) Because everyone who posts regularly has let go of at least
one balloon and is eager to help others let go of the ones they now
see were weighing them down.

> At
> this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like.

When you're ready to work on that, it will help yourself *hugely* to
see that you are *choosing* not to let him. You don't like the
consequences (they *are* temporary consequences!) of letting him have
all the screen time he'd like. So you are *choosing* to limit.

If there is one piece of advice I could give people it would be to
see everything they do as a choice. It is so incredibly freeing :-)
It seems like the only reason we do so many unpleasant things in life
is because we don't have a choice. But it's the perception of not
having a choice makes them doubly onerous.

As an example, I hated cleaning the toilet. It was just something you
had to do every week (or month ;-) And just because I had to do it, I
never wanted to and fought against it, often avoiding my
responsibility for 6 months! But when I realized it was a choice,
that I could choose to never ever ever scrub the toilet again, I
realized that it was nice to see it not filthy. I could choose --
when I wanted to! -- to have a clean toilet. And I found that once I
realized there wasn't anyone making me clean, that I cleaned it a lot
more often.

If you decide to let him have all the screen time he'd like I promise
you it will be hard! It will be hard to make the decision. It will be
hard on you to let go of control over a piece of your life. It will
be hard to see the new problems letting go creates. But the place on
the other side on beyond this transition period where your son sees
screen time as just another thing to do and not something precious to
be coveted is a really awesome place :-) And it will be worth it.

But it's only when you have read enough to see that there's something
better, when you've reflected on the tension in the house and feel
that tension doesn't seem a good enough compromise to prevent
something that isn't seeming as scary as it once was, only then will
you be one of the perceived "perfect" ones who posts to the list and
says "Okay, I've let go, now what?" ;-)

> I hope this group is open enough for me to be able to
> ADMIT that without serious accusations of being inadequate or the
> such.

This seems to be the crux of the difficulties people have with this
type of list. Many people want places to vent, where they can air
their faults and have others say "Yes, I have that exact same
problem. I know what you're going through because I'm going through
the same thing."

That's what support lists are for :-)

This is a discussion list. It's a place to work out the things you've
decided to work on.

Maybe there are two types of people: People who want to work out
their problems in private while getting support for how hard it is.
And people who recognize that not being perfect is part of life and
want a place to work on being better.

I wonder if it's personality or school that causes people to think
they're bad for not doing everything right? Probably personality but
then school makes it worse :-/ But no one on the list sees anyone as
bad for not doing everything "right". No one expects everyone to be
doing everything "right". Because there isn't "right" so much as
there is actively working towards better, or moving towards
unschooling instead of away. And the list is a place to work towards
better. Any posts are assumed to be a request for help. It's the next
step beyond "Life's hard." That's why there isn't much support for
"It's hard," and "I can't." This type of list is the place to go when
you want to ask "So what do I do about that? How do I make it less
hard. How do I move beyond 'I can't'."

> I
> know I may get flamed for this but I'm working on it.

It's not flames. It's help to move on! :-)

The list is just not a support list where people can post about how
hard life is and sympathize with each other.

Yes, life's hard. Let's talk about the things we're ready to change
so it's not so hard! :-)

Joyce


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

WOW!

Maybe we should have every new member read this! <g>

For those of you unfamiliar with Joyce Fetteroll's writings, she has a
wonderful website filled with pithy, helpful posts like this one. She
*so* understands unschooling---and more importantly, can plainly and
straight-forwardly put it into words. Her posts on the old
unschooling.com message boards and unschoolingdotcom e-lists (now
UnschoolingDiscussion@...) were essential in helping me
take the leap.

Her site should be one of your first stops (along with Sandra Dodd's)
on your journey into unschooling.

http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

"The hardest problem for the brain is not learning, but forgetting. No
matter how hard we try, we can't deliberately forget something we have
learned, and that is catastrophic if we learn that we can't learn."
~Frank Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>

On May 23, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Tonya Matthews wrote:

> It's hard to trust, for me.

For most everyone!

> I was schooled in a school building,

As did 99% of the people! :-)

> At
> this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like.

Probably most of the people have something they aren't ready to let
go of.

But the list is to provide help and support for the practices someone
*has decided they want to change* not the practices they want to hold
onto.

Unfortunately that gives the impression that everyone on the list is
perfect, that it's easy to just let go of old ways and all they need
is some tips on what to do instead!

But I think a better way to look at the list is to picture everyone
with a dozen practices they're holding onto that make their own life
easier and less fearful. The practices are like balloons that support
their fears because their fears are threatening to pull them into a
bottomless abyss. They *want* to hold onto the balloons and they
can't understand why people find it so easy to let go.

It *isn't* easy to let go! It's scary! It takes some uncomfortable
self examination to let go. But what you're seeing displayed on the
list is the one balloon someone has decided to let go of. You're just
not seeing the other 11 balloons they're still holding onto ;-)

When people decide to let go, when they bring a practice to the list
that they want help with, it isn't because it's easy. It's because
they've been examining that practice in a new light and they don't
like the new vision. The new vision makes them more uncomfortable
than the fear. One of their balloons doesn't look so comforting any
more. They were only seeing the balloon part of the practice that was
holding them up and supporting their fears, but now they've seen the
lead part that was weighing down their kids and holding themselves
back. They've reached the point with that practice where they've
said, "Yes, it's scary to let go, but I can now see that where this
balloon is taking me is even scarier. And I want help letting go."

Don't assume that everyone has let go of all their balloons!

Don't assume that letting go is easy! You just haven't seen all the
self-examination that has gone on in private as people read the list
without posting. This is the list to post to when you've decided to
let go.

But it's also a good list to read to help you get to the point where
you want to let go of a practice.

It just isn't a good place to tell people why you aren't ready to let
go ;-) Because everyone who posts regularly has let go of at least
one balloon and is eager to help others let go of the ones they now
see were weighing them down.

> At
> this point, I CAN'T let my son have all the screen time he'd like.

When you're ready to work on that, it will help yourself *hugely* to
see that you are *choosing* not to let him. You don't like the
consequences (they *are* temporary consequences!) of letting him have
all the screen time he'd like. So you are *choosing* to limit.

If there is one piece of advice I could give people it would be to
see everything they do as a choice. It is so incredibly freeing :-)
It seems like the only reason we do so many unpleasant things in life
is because we don't have a choice. But it's the perception of not
having a choice makes them doubly onerous.

As an example, I hated cleaning the toilet. It was just something you
had to do every week (or month ;-) And just because I had to do it, I
never wanted to and fought against it, often avoiding my
responsibility for 6 months! But when I realized it was a choice,
that I could choose to never ever ever scrub the toilet again, I
realized that it was nice to see it not filthy. I could choose --
when I wanted to! -- to have a clean toilet. And I found that once I
realized there wasn't anyone making me clean, that I cleaned it a lot
more often.

If you decide to let him have all the screen time he'd like I promise
you it will be hard! It will be hard to make the decision. It will be
hard on you to let go of control over a piece of your life. It will
be hard to see the new problems letting go creates. But the place on
the other side on beyond this transition period where your son sees
screen time as just another thing to do and not something precious to
be coveted is a really awesome place :-) And it will be worth it.

But it's only when you have read enough to see that there's something
better, when you've reflected on the tension in the house and feel
that tension doesn't seem a good enough compromise to prevent
something that isn't seeming as scary as it once was, only then will
you be one of the perceived "perfect" ones who posts to the list and
says "Okay, I've let go, now what?" ;-)

> I hope this group is open enough for me to be able to
> ADMIT that without serious accusations of being inadequate or the
> such.

This seems to be the crux of the difficulties people have with this
type of list. Many people want places to vent, where they can air
their faults and have others say "Yes, I have that exact same
problem. I know what you're going through because I'm going through
the same thing."

That's what support lists are for :-)

This is a discussion list. It's a place to work out the things you've
decided to work on.

Maybe there are two types of people: People who want to work out
their problems in private while getting support for how hard it is.
And people who recognize that not being perfect is part of life and
want a place to work on being better.

I wonder if it's personality or school that causes people to think
they're bad for not doing everything right? Probably personality but
then school makes it worse :-/ But no one on the list sees anyone as
bad for not doing everything "right". No one expects everyone to be
doing everything "right". Because there isn't "right" so much as
there is actively working towards better, or moving towards
unschooling instead of away. And the list is a place to work towards
better. Any posts are assumed to be a request for help. It's the next
step beyond "Life's hard." That's why there isn't much support for
"It's hard," and "I can't." This type of list is the place to go when
you want to ask "So what do I do about that? How do I make it less
hard. How do I move beyond 'I can't'."

> I
> know I may get flamed for this but I'm working on it.

It's not flames. It's help to move on! :-)

The list is just not a support list where people can post about how
hard life is and sympathize with each other.

Yes, life's hard. Let's talk about the things we're ready to change
so it's not so hard! :-)

Joyce

Deb

--- In [email protected], "Tonya Matthews"
<godzilla.matthews@...> wrote:
>
> The commercials for what's coming up next keeps
> him glued and he can't get away.
Tivo. DVR. VHS. DVDs of the whole season. Digital cable often has a
way to mark a reminder on programs you want to see later on. Find ways
that he can see what he wants when HE chooses rather than him being at
the beck and call of the TV programmer's schedule. Empower him to
watch what he wants when and for how long he chooses. For example, DS
(just about 8 yrs old) got to liking Fawlty Towers. But it comes on
late and sporadically. He was staying up really late to watch it -
later than he usually did and it was interfering with things he wanted
to do during the day - he'd either miss other things or be tired and
irritable which none of us liked. So, we got a whole season of Fawlty
Towers on DVD (Netflix rental) and he watched and watched and watched.
We'll also set the digital reminder timers (he knows how to do that
himself) so that he can walk away or change to another program or
whatever and a reminder will pop up - if DH or I see a timer pop up,
we'll call DS and let him know - and he can choose to come and watch
or skip it. He's learned that *most* programs will repeat eventually.
>
> We'll be at the Unschooling Convention in Peabody this weekend! It's
> going to be a wild ride and I can't wait!
See you there! I usually write in my other screen name "Bugsmom" under
my real name on my nametag to differentiate me from all the
other "Deb"s that might be around. If you spot a 6 ft tall 350 lb
bearded long haired guy (probably doing cannonballs in the pool lol)
go say hi - that's my DH and the bundle of energy with him is DS.

--Deb

jlh44music

> Unfortunately that gives the impression that everyone on the list
is perfect, that it's easy to just let go of old ways and all they
need is some tips on what to do instead!...... But I think a better
way to look at the list is to picture everyone with a dozen
practices they're holding onto that make their own life easier and
less fearful. The practices are like balloons that support their
fears because their fears are threatening to pull them into a
bottomless abyss. They *want* to hold onto the balloons and they
can't understand why people find it so easy to let go.>>>>

This is great Joyce! I love the balloon analogy.

> Don't assume that everyone has let go of all their balloons!

I'm still holding on to quite a few of my balloons!

> And just because I had to do it, I never wanted to and fought
against it, often avoiding my responsibility for 6 months! But when
I realized it was a choice, that I could choose to never ever ever
scrub the toilet again, I realized that it was nice to see it not
filthy. I could choose -- when I wanted to! -- to have a clean
toilet. And I found that once I realized there wasn't anyone making
me clean, that I cleaned it a lot more often.>>>

I have always been a procrastinator about things I felt I "had to
do. I know some of this stems back to when I was growing up and my
mother "made" me, or required me to clean my room, dust, etc,
whatever it was. I think it was the way she demanded that I do it,
I stubbornly resisted. You've helped me look at this in a
different light.

There are SO many good things in this post....I'm saving it for
inspiration.
Jann

Tonya Matthews

Firstly, Joyce,

Thank you SO much! It makes SO much more sense now.
> Probably most of the people have something they aren't ready to
let
go of.>>

Can I say I believed that all/most of those in these groups were
100% unschooly pros??

>
> It *isn't* easy to let go! It's scary! It takes some uncomfortable
self examination to let go. But what you're seeing displayed on the
list is the one balloon someone has decided to let go of. You're
just not seeing the other 11 balloons they're still holding onto ;-)
>>

Love this, thanks SO much!

> But it's only when you have read enough to see that there's
something better, when you've reflected on the tension in the house
and feel that tension doesn't seem a good enough compromise to
prevent something that isn't seeming as scary as it once was, only
then will you be one of the perceived "perfect" ones who posts to
the list and says "Okay, I've let go, now what?" ;-)>>

I look forward to it. I guess I should give myself a SHRED of
credit. There is SO much that I have let go of and those balloons ;)
have drifted away. TV must be a bigger one ~for me~ and that's why
it's taking longer.

Honestly, I have some confusion regarding the support vs. discussion
part when I see posts that eminate "I need to... because of x"
Sounds like looking for support to me. I'll keep working on that
with getting the semantics/reality straight.

Still learning,
Tonya

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

>>>Can I say I believed that all/most of those in these groups were
100% unschooly pros??<<<

hehehe... not... but it came way more comfortably to who I am at heart,
which is why it's been very easy to dive into for me... when challenged by
everyone here at the beginning, I didn't run and really let what they were
saying sink in, which helped to let go of those learned habits that were
hurting both me and my DD. we have to unlearn to learn.


Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stoptherod.net/
http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/

"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."
-John F. Kennedy

-------Original Message-------

From: Tonya Matthews
Date: 05/24/06 19:25:27
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Hating Homeschooling


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 24, 2006, at 4:59 PM, Tonya Matthews wrote:

> Honestly, I have some confusion regarding the support vs. discussion
> part when I see posts that eminate "I need to... because of x"

I think because discussion list doesn't quite get at the concept even
though that's what it's called.

There is certainly support and encouragement for people who are
trying to change here. And it's not that people aren't sympathetic to
people who are clinging to their balloons. We've all been there. But
the list is focused on change. If someone says they won't/can't/don't
want to change, there isn't much people can offer on this type of
list where words are oriented towards encouraging people to push past
the difficulties. To tell someone that it's okay to not change is
discouraging to people who are going through the trials and
tribulations of changing.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]