Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
Holly
Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
how long has he been away from the "schooly" things? how long has he been
given the freedom to do with his day as he wishes? I'll repost what I wrote
a few days ago on the group and maybe that will help you gage just how long
it may be before he wants to do more than play video games all day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so we've been unschooling now since December 2005 (not very long)... did
school-at-home for the first few months of homeschooling starting in
September 2005... DD was in PS from K-3. anyhow, the rule of thumb is one
month deschooling for every year in PS... all this time I've been pretty
much letting her do whatever... and she's been anti-book/anti-library this
whole time... today in the car on the way to church my DD starts talking
about the sign-language she knows and we talked a bit about it and I said I
could probably find some charts on the internet for her and she said "we
could go to the library to get a book about it... then I could talk to
people who know sign-language."
it was such a cool moment because it was all her... I didn't do a thing to
bring this conversation or idea on. so as I was thinking about it I
realized that it's been about as many months as years as she was in PS...
and she's now pursuing interests beyond tv/video games 24/7 (though... don't
get me wrong... I have no problems with this 24/7)... it's just cool to see
her want to pursue an interest and an interest that I had no idea she had.
:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I seriously didn't think the constant video game and TV would end... but
since allowing her the freedom (and yes, she didn't want to do much around
the house either or clean her room... but she is beginning to help out more
and has just finished reorganizing her room on her own). My DD is 9, too.
We went to a fishing clinic for our 4H group today and my DD fished and
talked to the instructor for about an hour longer than any of the other kids
He was happy to stay late just to help my DD. And she was totally
enjoying herself.
I know the frustration... but please just breath and give it some more time.
It will be so worth it... and I can already tell this and we've only been
unschooling since Dec. There are unschoolers here who have been living this
lifestyle for years! Trust, just trust... even when you don't see... trust.
{{{hugs}}}
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stoptherod.net/
http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."
-John F. Kennedy
-------Original Message-------
From: Holly
Date: 05/22/06 20:41:10
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
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Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school
education
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
given the freedom to do with his day as he wishes? I'll repost what I wrote
a few days ago on the group and maybe that will help you gage just how long
it may be before he wants to do more than play video games all day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
so we've been unschooling now since December 2005 (not very long)... did
school-at-home for the first few months of homeschooling starting in
September 2005... DD was in PS from K-3. anyhow, the rule of thumb is one
month deschooling for every year in PS... all this time I've been pretty
much letting her do whatever... and she's been anti-book/anti-library this
whole time... today in the car on the way to church my DD starts talking
about the sign-language she knows and we talked a bit about it and I said I
could probably find some charts on the internet for her and she said "we
could go to the library to get a book about it... then I could talk to
people who know sign-language."
it was such a cool moment because it was all her... I didn't do a thing to
bring this conversation or idea on. so as I was thinking about it I
realized that it's been about as many months as years as she was in PS...
and she's now pursuing interests beyond tv/video games 24/7 (though... don't
get me wrong... I have no problems with this 24/7)... it's just cool to see
her want to pursue an interest and an interest that I had no idea she had.
:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I seriously didn't think the constant video game and TV would end... but
since allowing her the freedom (and yes, she didn't want to do much around
the house either or clean her room... but she is beginning to help out more
and has just finished reorganizing her room on her own). My DD is 9, too.
We went to a fishing clinic for our 4H group today and my DD fished and
talked to the instructor for about an hour longer than any of the other kids
He was happy to stay late just to help my DD. And she was totally
enjoying herself.
I know the frustration... but please just breath and give it some more time.
It will be so worth it... and I can already tell this and we've only been
unschooling since Dec. There are unschoolers here who have been living this
lifestyle for years! Trust, just trust... even when you don't see... trust.
{{{hugs}}}
Lesa
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://stoptherod.net/
http://parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth."
-John F. Kennedy
-------Original Message-------
From: Holly
Date: 05/22/06 20:41:10
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home
school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school
education
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Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
Welcome Holly,
My best suggestion is to let your son have a summer vacation from
school stuff and school thinking and spend some time reading the
posts here.
For me, becoming an unschooling parent required me to change my way
of looking at education and learning. It was more than just the
absence of a curriculim. It's not easy to shift your way of looking
at something after thinking a certain way your whole life.
I've found that "getting unschooling" is a mindset that had to start
with me. It's definitely an ongoing journey (at least for me it is)
but I've found out a lot about myself in the process.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
My best suggestion is to let your son have a summer vacation from
school stuff and school thinking and spend some time reading the
posts here.
For me, becoming an unschooling parent required me to change my way
of looking at education and learning. It was more than just the
absence of a curriculim. It's not easy to shift your way of looking
at something after thinking a certain way your whole life.
I've found that "getting unschooling" is a mindset that had to start
with me. It's definitely an ongoing journey (at least for me it is)
but I've found out a lot about myself in the process.
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
--- In [email protected], "Holly" <hbink3@...> wrote:
>
> Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely
scary
> to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and
am
> dry on creative ideas...
>
> I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done
the
> traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed"
homeschooling
> method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
> church which required strict reports of curriculum completed,
report
> cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
> Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any
of
> the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his
computer
> from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-
2
> with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have
tons
> of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting
inside
> staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage,
allowed
> him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is
that
> he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
> helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
> the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many
times
> on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along
with
> our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just
a
> zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something,
like
> that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is
usually
> no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
> Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
> everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
> mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we
did
> have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
> the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most
of
> his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has
lost
> all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
>
> I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method
today
> only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
> way around...
>
> Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
> hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to
be
> doing this type of stuff every day!!
>
freepsgal
> I've tried grabbing things he mentions and turning them into aOh my, this statement just jumped out at me. Here's how I explained
> learning experience...
things to my DH.
We've been homeschooling 4+ years. We've jumped around
methodologies too. By far, our most favorite times have been when I
stop looking at things through schoolish filters and just live
joyfully with my family. Now, we've done this before and after a
time, I got to the point (usually egged on by well-meaning
homeschool friends who don't believe in unschooling) where I would
decide to organize us right back into a traditional method of
schoolwork. Now, this time I have ZERO intention of allowing that
to happen. Really! I'm making an effort at finding unschooling
friends and participating on unschooling groups so if those doubts
start creeping in, I can toss them right out again. However, my
children can't really trust me since I've said these things before.
We've been unschooling for just a few months I guess, and I believe
my children are just trying to wait me out. Neither of them want to
do anything that even remotely resembles schoolwork. I believe they
are just waiting for me to change my mind so they are taking
advantage of every moment of freedom they can get. They were
hesitant to mention interests because they believed I'd jump in and
turn their interests into schoolwork. That's a sure-fire way to
kill their joy.
Perhaps you might reconsider what you think is learning. I don't
think you need to do anything special to turn something into a
learning experience. Our children are learning the way they want.
You can ask if he wants to do something, but don't take over because
it then becomes your thing rather than his thing. Also, do you
spend any time with him doing the things he likes? You mentioned
his dad plays games with him sometimes. How about asking him to
share his games with you? Find out why he likes them so much. Maybe
if you share in his interests, he might share some of your interests
in return. As for helping out, I tell my children when I'm planning
some big cleaning and we turn on music and work together. They know
they don't have to do it, but they are always eager to help. They
especially love to clean the windows, dust the furniture and vacuum
the carpets. They also love putting laundry into the wash though
they don't like folding it afterwards. But since we do it as a
family with each person folding his/her own things, it gets done
very quickly. Then we do something fun together. After we clean
the living room, for example, we love to play Nintendo because
everything is so tidy and there's plenty of room for us to lounge
around.
Well, I hope some of this might have given you some ideas. Be happy!
Beth M.
HABIB OWENS
I am sorry to hear that. I am a newbie to homeschooling only 1.5 years but before homeschooling my three i was a recreation therapist gfor 15 years or as my husband likes to put it I got paid to party and play but it has been very helpful with being home wioth the children. Where do y ou live I am near d.c. so there are lots of free things to do here. But if he is into star wars and other games I would suggest you asking him to show yu how to play and that may give you some ideas. I would try throwing a party with the game thems if you are concerned with the friendships. I would look at some telscopes for the stars if he is into star wars. Maybe look at some night walks that mey be more interesting to him. I would have some talks withhim about how you feel and see what he thinks about it.
Tywane
The way for a person to rise is to improve themselves every way they can, never suspecting that anybody wishes to hinder them. - Abraham Lincoln -
----- Original Message ----
From: Holly <hbink3@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:09:55 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tywane
The way for a person to rise is to improve themselves every way they can, never suspecting that anybody wishes to hinder them. - Abraham Lincoln -
----- Original Message ----
From: Holly <hbink3@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:09:55 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying, and am
dry on creative ideas...
I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the
traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling
method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our
church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report
cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done
Unschooling... My son, obviously, prefers the unschooling to any of
the other methods, but has been attached at the hip to his computer
from 8:00 a.m. until bedtime, which includes an hour or two of PS-2
with his Dad... We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer. We didn't put limitations on usage, allowed
him to eat his meals there, etc. The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate
the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times
on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with
our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...just a
zombie face staring at a computer game. If we suggest something, like
that Dad & I are going for a walk, wanna come? The answer is usually
no. Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star Wars
Gallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III, but his interest in
everything else has disappeared. I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience, which, we did
have an awesome adventure studying fungi on our property...but for
the most part, even that has stopped. He has lost interest in most of
his toys, has quit sports, and since we are pretty isolated, has lost
all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any longer.
I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...
Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!!
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school education
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/22/06, Holly <hbink3@...> wrote:
merit. Everything has merit, whether it is video games, PS2, or a book.
Your son needs to trust that everything he does isn't going to be turned
into an educational moment. That's when he will start trusting you with
going for a walk or open up with the things he wants to do outside of
computers and video games. Are you doing the things that you want to do or
are you standing waiting to serve him? What message is that sending to your
son? Get involved in your own interests, create, read, garden, bake, knit,
whatever it is that is your passion. Unschool yourself!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>First you have to stop thinking of everything in terms of educational
> Now, granted, I think the games are educational, (snip) I've tried
> grabbing things he
> mentions and turning them into a learning experience,
merit. Everything has merit, whether it is video games, PS2, or a book.
Your son needs to trust that everything he does isn't going to be turned
into an educational moment. That's when he will start trusting you with
going for a walk or open up with the things he wants to do outside of
computers and video games. Are you doing the things that you want to do or
are you standing waiting to serve him? What message is that sending to your
son? Get involved in your own interests, create, read, garden, bake, knit,
whatever it is that is your passion. Unschool yourself!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb
--- In [email protected], "Holly" <hbink3@...> wrote:
of like he's a fish who has been 'hooked' before so now anything
that resembles "bait" makes him leery. So, rather than express
interest in something (which he's experienced gets taken and turned
into a "hook") he's just sticking to the things that haven't, in his
experience, been turned into "learning experiences" - they're
still "just fun" for him - and that's video and computer gaming.
It's going to take a time of you backing off entirely and just
letting things "lie fallow" for a time. He needs to re-learn to
trust that when you say "Hey there's a cool orange fungus with
yellow spots over here" that he can go look and enjoy it rather than
getting a lesson on mycology and biology and "find 3 other species
of fungus that live in this environment" and all that "educational"
stuff. By taking things he mentions and making learning experiences,
you've been taking away his 'ownership' of the thought, event,
topic. Basically, hanging back until he says something then jumping
back out in front to "lead" him. Let him lead - your job is to ease
the path he wants to take, not make the path for him to take.
--Deb
>Stop trying to turn everything into a learning experience. It's kind
> I've tried grabbing things he
> mentions and turning them into a learning experience,
of like he's a fish who has been 'hooked' before so now anything
that resembles "bait" makes him leery. So, rather than express
interest in something (which he's experienced gets taken and turned
into a "hook") he's just sticking to the things that haven't, in his
experience, been turned into "learning experiences" - they're
still "just fun" for him - and that's video and computer gaming.
It's going to take a time of you backing off entirely and just
letting things "lie fallow" for a time. He needs to re-learn to
trust that when you say "Hey there's a cool orange fungus with
yellow spots over here" that he can go look and enjoy it rather than
getting a lesson on mycology and biology and "find 3 other species
of fungus that live in this environment" and all that "educational"
stuff. By taking things he mentions and making learning experiences,
you've been taking away his 'ownership' of the thought, event,
topic. Basically, hanging back until he says something then jumping
back out in front to "lead" him. Let him lead - your job is to ease
the path he wants to take, not make the path for him to take.
--Deb
Tresa
My dd is a devotee of the xbox 360/pc game "obivion", a role playing
game with 500 plus hours of gameplay. I know how you feel. We've
worked hard to strike a balance. The game is very educational, and
she's learning alot from it, but we have put some limits (generous
ones) on it out of necessity.
She has to keep up with her few chores, break for meals, and get some
exercise. She was getting cranky and tired from all the sitting
around, and I was concerned it would negatively impact her health.
I like to let the kids make their own decisions, but when it impacts
health or family harmony, I feel it's time to come to a compromise.
Regards,
Tresa
game with 500 plus hours of gameplay. I know how you feel. We've
worked hard to strike a balance. The game is very educational, and
she's learning alot from it, but we have put some limits (generous
ones) on it out of necessity.
She has to keep up with her few chores, break for meals, and get some
exercise. She was getting cranky and tired from all the sitting
around, and I was concerned it would negatively impact her health.
I like to let the kids make their own decisions, but when it impacts
health or family harmony, I feel it's time to come to a compromise.
Regards,
Tresa
--- In [email protected], "Holly" <hbink3@...> wrote:
>
> Okay... I know, the title is scary, and well...it is extremely scary
> to me. I love teaching my son, but am really tired of trying,
and .........
Brian & Alexandra Polikowsky
A great book for you to read is How Children Fail by John Holt. I am
reading it now ( last pages) and it is awesome.
Alex
reading it now ( last pages) and it is awesome.
Alex
Holly
You Guys!!
I LOVE YOU!!!
Seriously! Thank-you so much for all of your input and suggestions.
Trust me I will use every bit of information you all have provided. I
think every one of your suggestions will help our Unschooling
experience.
I have discussed many of your suggestions with DH and we both are in
agreement that we need to change how things have been. Hopefully,
with all of the advice you've provided, it will work.
Now, I need to get out of here so I can go Unschool, (myself)!!!
Thanks A Million!!!
Laterz!!
(I hope this isn't a double post. I tried posting once and lost the
entire thing. But the first post was better! If it is a double post,
I'm truly sorry.)
I LOVE YOU!!!
Seriously! Thank-you so much for all of your input and suggestions.
Trust me I will use every bit of information you all have provided. I
think every one of your suggestions will help our Unschooling
experience.
I have discussed many of your suggestions with DH and we both are in
agreement that we need to change how things have been. Hopefully,
with all of the advice you've provided, it will work.
Now, I need to get out of here so I can go Unschool, (myself)!!!
Thanks A Million!!!
Laterz!!
(I hope this isn't a double post. I tried posting once and lost the
entire thing. But the first post was better! If it is a double post,
I'm truly sorry.)
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/23/06, Tresa <email@...> wrote:
who says that we have to learn anyway. Why call it a game if it has an
alterior motive to teach? :)
She has to keep up with her few chores, break for meals, and get some
concentration to something what would you do? You would probably say, "Hey,
you are looking really stressed over that. I'm worried about you. Why not
take a break for a few minutes and come sit outside with me and have some
lemonade." But with adults they always have the option of saying no. Do
you extend that same courtesy to your child? When children have these sorts
of limits they don't learn to trust you. "Because I am limited I have to
get in every second I can of this thing because I know it will eventually be
taken away from me." Your child is not going to die in front of the xbox.
When she learns that you trust her she will release the controls and allow
herself to be intrested in other things and know that the xbox is there for
her to use when she wants it, not when she's allowed to have it.
Don't sit around waiting for your daughter to come to you and say, "I'm
finished with the xbox now. Let's go do something else." Unschool yourself
(my recurrent theme of the day :) ) and your child will see that the world
doesn't revolve around the xbox (although for some children it does and they
go on to work in Canada for a multi-billion dollar company that creates new
games for xbox - a friend of mine did that LOL!) If you are waiting for her
to get a new interest the message she is getting is that the world does
revolve around the xbox. Go live your life and let her live hers, but
invite her into your life, just don't *expect* her to join you.
Michelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Games need not be educational for someone to learn something from it. And
>
> We've
> worked hard to strike a balance. The game is very educational, and
> she's learning alot from it, but we have put some limits (generous
> ones) on it out of necessity.
who says that we have to learn anyway. Why call it a game if it has an
alterior motive to teach? :)
She has to keep up with her few chores, break for meals, and get some
> exercise. She was getting cranky and tired from all the sittingIf you saw another adult getting tired and cranky because of intense
> around, and I was concerned it would negatively impact her health.
concentration to something what would you do? You would probably say, "Hey,
you are looking really stressed over that. I'm worried about you. Why not
take a break for a few minutes and come sit outside with me and have some
lemonade." But with adults they always have the option of saying no. Do
you extend that same courtesy to your child? When children have these sorts
of limits they don't learn to trust you. "Because I am limited I have to
get in every second I can of this thing because I know it will eventually be
taken away from me." Your child is not going to die in front of the xbox.
When she learns that you trust her she will release the controls and allow
herself to be intrested in other things and know that the xbox is there for
her to use when she wants it, not when she's allowed to have it.
Don't sit around waiting for your daughter to come to you and say, "I'm
finished with the xbox now. Let's go do something else." Unschool yourself
(my recurrent theme of the day :) ) and your child will see that the world
doesn't revolve around the xbox (although for some children it does and they
go on to work in Canada for a multi-billion dollar company that creates new
games for xbox - a friend of mine did that LOL!) If you are waiting for her
to get a new interest the message she is getting is that the world does
revolve around the xbox. Go live your life and let her live hers, but
invite her into your life, just don't *expect* her to join you.
Michelle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jlh44music
> First you have to stop thinking of everything in terms ofeducational merit. Everything has merit, whether it is video games,
PS2, or a book. Your son needs to trust that everything he does isn't
going to be turned into an educational moment. That's when he will
start trusting you with going for a walk or open up with the things he
wants to do outside of computers and video games. Are you doing the
things that you want to do or are you standing waiting to serve him?
What message is that sending to your son?>
Living in a state (MA) that requires annual reporting of some sort
(and being new to unschooling, since last June), I think it's "normal"
to automatically put everything into educational terms. Even though
I'm giving my dd space to deschool, and trust, always in the back of
my mind is how I'm going to write up my first narrative report for our
first year of "homeschooling". The important thing is to separate the
two. I know it will get better with time, and I enjoy reading what
others post here. It helps keep me sane!
Jann
Tresa
> But with adults they always have the option of saying no. DoNo, I don't, and it would be irresonsible of me to do so. Children
> you extend that same courtesy to your child?
are not tiny adults, and should not be treated as such. It does
them a disservice to do so. I would not let my daughter spend 12
hours a day in front of a video game any more than I'd let her eat
an entire box of cookies each night for dinner, or not bathe or
brush her teeth.
It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy and
happy. Although some kids might think an all day video-game, cookie
eating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a parent we know that
would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in the long term.
Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes the point.
Children need parents for a reason, and sometimes, that reason is to
tell them "no" untill they are mature enough to make healthy,
reasonable, responsible decisions themselves. Unschooling doesn't
mean un-parenting.
Respectfully,
Tresa
--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
><snip>.......
>
> Games need not be educational for someone to learn something from
Christy Mahoney
>You can try. You can do your best. However, you can't MAKE your
> It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy and
> happy.
child be healthy or happy.
My daughter's personality is such that she is often worried, anxious,
and unhappy. Sometimes I do feel like a failure because of this, but
when I really think about it, I do realize that I don't have control
of her emotions. I try to help, of course, and I try to find things
that she will like and be happy about. But I can't fix everything.
-Christy
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/24/06, Tresa <email@...> wrote:
have the responsibilities of being adults. That doesn't mean that they
shouldn't be given the same courtesy as adults.
It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy and
If your child has control over what s/he eats, drinks, plays, learns, when
she sleeps and even bathes, then video games, cookies and filth won't seem
like the creme de la creme of childhood. And I have been known to tell both
my co-parent and my children, "Hmmm. Smells like you could use a bath."
The rebuttal is usually, "Yeah. You're right." or "I'll take one before I
go to bed." It's ok to point out the obvious to someone who has BO that is
smelling up everyone's space. :) If a child knows that they *can* eat
cookies for dinner they will usually choose to not. And cookies aren't all
bad. Read the nutritional label. Eating a box of cookies isn't going to
cause a child illness and knowing that all food is ok to eat and that they
aren't going to be shamed for eating it will allow a child to explore other
foods and to *choose* other foods.
Trust me, 3 years ago I didn't believe it either.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>You are right. Children are not tiny adults which means that they shouldn't
> > But with adults they always have the option of saying no. Do
> > you extend that same courtesy to your child?
>
> No, I don't, and it would be irresonsible of me to do so. Children
> are not tiny adults, and should not be treated as such.
have the responsibilities of being adults. That doesn't mean that they
shouldn't be given the same courtesy as adults.
It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy and
> happy. Although some kids might think an all day video-game, cookieYou are making that assumption based on children that are not unschooled.
> eating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a parent we know that
> would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in the long term.
> Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes the point.
If your child has control over what s/he eats, drinks, plays, learns, when
she sleeps and even bathes, then video games, cookies and filth won't seem
like the creme de la creme of childhood. And I have been known to tell both
my co-parent and my children, "Hmmm. Smells like you could use a bath."
The rebuttal is usually, "Yeah. You're right." or "I'll take one before I
go to bed." It's ok to point out the obvious to someone who has BO that is
smelling up everyone's space. :) If a child knows that they *can* eat
cookies for dinner they will usually choose to not. And cookies aren't all
bad. Read the nutritional label. Eating a box of cookies isn't going to
cause a child illness and knowing that all food is ok to eat and that they
aren't going to be shamed for eating it will allow a child to explore other
foods and to *choose* other foods.
Trust me, 3 years ago I didn't believe it either.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Manisha Kher
--- Tresa <email@...> wrote:
me with my day-to-day non-extreme problems.
It is my understanding that most of the kids of folks
on this list bathe often enough to be smell-free, eat
reasonable diets and do not play video-games 24x7.
They got there without top-down "thou shalt not"
rules. I come here to read about how these things work
in real families.
Manisha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> It is my job as a parent to make sure my childrenI don't like extreme examples because they don't help
> are healthy and
> happy. Although some kids might think an all day
> video-game, cookie
> eating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a
> parent we know that
> would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in
> the long term.
> Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes
> the point.
>
me with my day-to-day non-extreme problems.
It is my understanding that most of the kids of folks
on this list bathe often enough to be smell-free, eat
reasonable diets and do not play video-games 24x7.
They got there without top-down "thou shalt not"
rules. I come here to read about how these things work
in real families.
Manisha
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], Manisha Kher <m_kher@...>
wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the kids of folks
just spent a month with his adult brothers and their wives in
California.
My son has been homeschooled for five years , unschooled for about
half of that time and radically unschooled for just over a year.
My sons and dil all commented to me on my 14 years olds ability to
self direct.
He plays video games, reads a magazine, runs outside with the dog,
plays with the baby, draws, writes and eats at his leisure. He does
these things according to his patterns and desire for certain
information and stimulation. It is not artificial. He does not play
video games for 24 hours straight because he does not want to.
Not that in getting a new game he has not played 24 hours straight.
Sometimes that what it takes to get the information he needs.
I had to wait till I was a grown up to learn how to self direct. I
sometimes still have trouble. But my kids are learning how to direct
and choose their joy/
Thats all,
Kathleen
wrote:
It is my understanding that most of the kids of folks
> on this list bathe often enough to be smell-free, eatI need to share here a moment. My nearly 15 year old son, Jessy,
> reasonable diets and do not play video-games 24x7.
> They got there without top-down "thou shalt not"
> rules. I come here to read about how these things work
> in real families.
just spent a month with his adult brothers and their wives in
California.
My son has been homeschooled for five years , unschooled for about
half of that time and radically unschooled for just over a year.
My sons and dil all commented to me on my 14 years olds ability to
self direct.
He plays video games, reads a magazine, runs outside with the dog,
plays with the baby, draws, writes and eats at his leisure. He does
these things according to his patterns and desire for certain
information and stimulation. It is not artificial. He does not play
video games for 24 hours straight because he does not want to.
Not that in getting a new game he has not played 24 hours straight.
Sometimes that what it takes to get the information he needs.
I had to wait till I was a grown up to learn how to self direct. I
sometimes still have trouble. But my kids are learning how to direct
and choose their joy/
Thats all,
Kathleen
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/25/06, Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
allowed! :) I think that I see in my life that I had to give myself the
choice to self direct in order to allow my children to do the same. I
refuse to grow up though!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Kathleen needs to be kicked off the list! She grew up! No grown ups
>
> I had to wait till I was a grown up to learn how to self direct. I
> sometimes still have trouble.
allowed! :) I think that I see in my life that I had to give myself the
choice to self direct in order to allow my children to do the same. I
refuse to grow up though!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freepsgal
> It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy andI'd feel under a lot of pressure if I believed the same things as
> happy.
> Tresa
you. I respect your right to parent the way you choose, but being
on an unschooling group and making those announcements so solidly as
if they are fact are rather funny. I must respectfully disagree
with all of your theories. My kids have no limits on video games,
tv, bedtime, food, etc. and they aren't obsessive about any of
them. We do have days where spend several hours playing a video
game. It's fun!! I'm currently working on Paper Mario and enjoying
myself. But we also have days where we just aren't in the mood so
we don't even turn on the Nintendo.
No, children are not tiny adults and I'm not treating them that
way. I do not expect them to work, pay rent, pay taxes, etc. Those
are adult kinds of things. I believe children should have the
freedom to BE children as this will be the only time in their lives
that they can truly be children. I get sad when I hear adults tell
children to grow up, act their age, get over it and learn life's not
fair, etc. My children are precious people with real feelings,
opinions, likes and dislikes. That part is just like adults. And I
think that was what was meant in the previous post you responded
to. I have no desire to control my children's lives. They are not
my slaves nor am I the dictator. How can I truly know what will
make them happy? I don't even know what makes ME happy sometimes!
I think you're looking at extremes and need to find more middle
ground if you're choosing to look into unschooling. Just for the
record, I am not a negligent parent even though your definition may
say so. (that whole unparenting doesn't equal unschooling) I am
finding there isn't a difference between unschooling and parenting
and life. Unschooling isn't about academics and education for our
family. It's our entire attitude, philosophy and feelings about
Life and everything we do and say. :)
Beth M.
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
thank you Beth... the unparenting view of unschooling is very damaging...
not only to us as unschoolers but to other's who choose to keep that view of
unschooling going.... as it keeps ignorance of the truth from coming to
light.
parenting is not a job... it is a gift to us to... and should be a
respectful relationship between adult and child to facilitate their own
individualism... so they will know that who they are is enough. that no
more or no less of them is required to be accepted into the world in which
they choose to live... that their passions are just as important as ours...
and that mistakes can be made and they will still be loved and accepted
without feeling that they've somehow become lesser people because of those
mistakes.
we create our own joy... we cannot and should not be responsible for "fixing
everyone else... that's called co-dependency... our goal should be
inter-dependency, that we can rely on each other as a community but not
expect that others are responsible for our feelings and growth.
Lesa
***still working through painful issues in my own childhood... and will be
damned if I make the same mistakes with my DD!***
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net/
-------Original Message-------
From: freepsgal
Date: 05/25/06 13:18:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
you. I respect your right to parent the way you choose, but being
on an unschooling group and making those announcements so solidly as
if they are fact are rather funny. I must respectfully disagree
with all of your theories. My kids have no limits on video games,
tv, bedtime, food, etc. and they aren't obsessive about any of
them. We do have days where spend several hours playing a video
game. It's fun!! I'm currently working on Paper Mario and enjoying
myself. But we also have days where we just aren't in the mood so
we don't even turn on the Nintendo.
No, children are not tiny adults and I'm not treating them that
way. I do not expect them to work, pay rent, pay taxes, etc. Those
are adult kinds of things. I believe children should have the
freedom to BE children as this will be the only time in their lives
that they can truly be children. I get sad when I hear adults tell
children to grow up, act their age, get over it and learn life's not
fair, etc. My children are precious people with real feelings,
opinions, likes and dislikes. That part is just like adults. And I
think that was what was meant in the previous post you responded
to. I have no desire to control my children's lives. They are not
my slaves nor am I the dictator. How can I truly know what will
make them happy? I don't even know what makes ME happy sometimes!
I think you're looking at extremes and need to find more middle
ground if you're choosing to look into unschooling. Just for the
record, I am not a negligent parent even though your definition may
say so. (that whole unparenting doesn't equal unschooling) I am
finding there isn't a difference between unschooling and parenting
and life. Unschooling isn't about academics and education for our
family. It's our entire attitude, philosophy and feelings about
Life and everything we do and say. :)
Beth M.
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home
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Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
not only to us as unschoolers but to other's who choose to keep that view of
unschooling going.... as it keeps ignorance of the truth from coming to
light.
parenting is not a job... it is a gift to us to... and should be a
respectful relationship between adult and child to facilitate their own
individualism... so they will know that who they are is enough. that no
more or no less of them is required to be accepted into the world in which
they choose to live... that their passions are just as important as ours...
and that mistakes can be made and they will still be loved and accepted
without feeling that they've somehow become lesser people because of those
mistakes.
we create our own joy... we cannot and should not be responsible for "fixing
everyone else... that's called co-dependency... our goal should be
inter-dependency, that we can rely on each other as a community but not
expect that others are responsible for our feelings and growth.
Lesa
***still working through painful issues in my own childhood... and will be
damned if I make the same mistakes with my DD!***
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net/
-------Original Message-------
From: freepsgal
Date: 05/25/06 13:18:07
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: Help - I Hate Homeschooling!
> It is my job as a parent to make sure my children are healthy andI'd feel under a lot of pressure if I believed the same things as
> happy.
> Tresa
you. I respect your right to parent the way you choose, but being
on an unschooling group and making those announcements so solidly as
if they are fact are rather funny. I must respectfully disagree
with all of your theories. My kids have no limits on video games,
tv, bedtime, food, etc. and they aren't obsessive about any of
them. We do have days where spend several hours playing a video
game. It's fun!! I'm currently working on Paper Mario and enjoying
myself. But we also have days where we just aren't in the mood so
we don't even turn on the Nintendo.
No, children are not tiny adults and I'm not treating them that
way. I do not expect them to work, pay rent, pay taxes, etc. Those
are adult kinds of things. I believe children should have the
freedom to BE children as this will be the only time in their lives
that they can truly be children. I get sad when I hear adults tell
children to grow up, act their age, get over it and learn life's not
fair, etc. My children are precious people with real feelings,
opinions, likes and dislikes. That part is just like adults. And I
think that was what was meant in the previous post you responded
to. I have no desire to control my children's lives. They are not
my slaves nor am I the dictator. How can I truly know what will
make them happy? I don't even know what makes ME happy sometimes!
I think you're looking at extremes and need to find more middle
ground if you're choosing to look into unschooling. Just for the
record, I am not a negligent parent even though your definition may
say so. (that whole unparenting doesn't equal unschooling) I am
finding there isn't a difference between unschooling and parenting
and life. Unschooling isn't about academics and education for our
family. It's our entire attitude, philosophy and feelings about
Life and everything we do and say. :)
Beth M.
SPONSORED LINKS Secondary school education Graduate school education Home
school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school
education
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
I am as totally immature as you.. So there!
Have a super day;]
Kathleen
<pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
>Okay I was talking chronology. So neaner neaner...
>
> Kathleen needs to be kicked off the list! She grew up! No grown ups
> allowed! :)
I am as totally immature as you.. So there!
Have a super day;]
Kathleen
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 5/26/06, Kathleen Gehrke <gehrkes@...> wrote:
sewing, and I am going to try to do the recycling. It should be fun! Have
a great day yourself, you infiltrator you!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Whew! I thought we had an infiltrator on the list! I'm cutting fabric,
> --- In [email protected], "Pampered Chef Michelle"
> <pamperedmichelle@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Kathleen needs to be kicked off the list! She grew up! No grown ups
> > allowed! :)
>
> Okay I was talking chronology. So neaner neaner...
>
> I am as totally immature as you.. So there!
>
> Have a super day;]
>
> Kathleen
sewing, and I am going to try to do the recycling. It should be fun! Have
a great day yourself, you infiltrator you!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>I've been homeschooling my 9 year old ds for 2 years. I've done the traditional workbooks method, I've done the "relaxed" homeschooling method, I've been part of a Independent Study Program through our church which required strict reports of curriculum completed, report cards, etc., and most recently, the last 3-4 months, have done Unschooling... >>Hi Holly. It sounds to me like your son is still deschooling. He's taking time to get as far away from schoolwork as he can. Kids often immerse themselves in TV, computer or video games during this time. If they think the unschooling "break" can end at any time when mom panics, then they're likely to do nothing but those things while they've got the chance.
>>The problem with all of this is that he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't helping anyone else with anything. We were trying to incorporate the "family helping each other out" thing, like I've read many times on this board, you know, where we just pick up his things along with our own junk, hoping he gets the idea...without any success...>>Again, it will take time for you all to transition and understand this new and different way of relating to one another. It will help if you rephrase your interactions with him in your own head. If you percieve it as waiting on him hand and foot, then you're labelling him as lazy or demanding in your own mind. Try viewing it from another perspective and see if it might ring equally as true. My own kids are often completely involved in something they are passionate about. I'll often bring them food or grab up their dishes. They're not lazy, they're focussed and involved and engaged. At other times, when their focus is less pinpoint, they will gladly help out in various ways.
>>just a zombie face staring at a computer game.>>Um no. He's an active player in whatever game he's playing. He's concentrating on something that's important to him. I'm sure I must sometimes look like a zombie when I'm reading and processing my email lists. Thankfully my family doesn't see me in this way. Just because you can't see into his brain doesn't mean it's not busy thinking. :o)
>>Now, granted, I think the games are educational, Star WarsGallactic Battlegrounds and Civilization III,>>
It's all educational. Everything. It all counts. The world is just full of learning. That's at the core of unschooling.
>>but his interest in everything else has disappeared.>>It will reemerge. He's growing and changing.
>>I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the way around...>>See, he was right to gorge on the computer games. He feared this new freedom wouldn't last and it didn't. I've been there done that. Time to go back to deschooling Day 1. <g>
>>Please, Please, Please, someone give me some suggestions! >>Breathe! All is well.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Holly" <hbink3@...>
[email protected]
>>Unschooling doesn't mean un-parenting. >>I don't think anyone here is advocating unparenting. If anything, unschooling is about being more involved and aware of your children. Aware of their likes and dislikes, strengths and challenges, interests and aversions, passions and fears. It's about partnering with our children as they navigate through the many choices they'll face in this world rather than standing as a barrier between them and what they want to explore.
>>Although some kids might think an all day video-game, cookieeating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a parent we know that
would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in the long term.
Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes the point.>>
It seems like you're assuming that this is the choice most children would make if given the chance. What people here are saying is that we've found that not to be true. Our children were given the freedom to regulate their eating, sleeping and interests. What we've found is that kids with choices do not automatically choose the worst possible option. Sure sometimes there's a cookie for breakfast or a skipped bath or three, but more times there are good choices and a healthy, happy kid.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Tresa" <email@...>
Deb Lewis
***Unschooling doesn't mean un-parenting.***
The first time I heard the term "unparenting" was years ago on some list
and the person using it intended it as an insult against those people
happily living a level of unschooling she never reached. She meant
"neglect." She meant "you're all neglectful," but she didn't have the
balls to say that so she veiled her insult the way the people who use
"disingenuous" think they're veiling "you're lying." <g>
I don't mind that word "unparenting" because what most people call
parenting holds no appeal for me. I don't think it's a good thing to
threaten kids, to control them or to create and enforce arbitrary rules.
I don't think it's good to hit people who are smaller than you in order
to make them do what you want. That's what most parenting looks like.
But now, (you can google) there's a whole group of folks who "Unparent"
and they have a website and they advocate rethinking what parenting means
and they'd be pretty miffed, I think, if some y'all equated what they're
doing with neglect.<g> They're not unschoolers and they have ideas I
wholly disagree with and I'm not endorsing. I'm cautioning those of you
who throw that "unparenting" word around like it means what you want it
to mean because someone else has a different idea. <g> You may get your
ass kicked at some party somewhere. <g>
So if you're new here and this stuff sounds like neglect to you don't
bullshit us with thinly veiled insults. Ask about what you don't
understand and the nice folks here will do their best to answer.
For newbies and lurkers: We're not talking about or advocating neglect.
Unschooling will mean spending more time with your kids, doing things for
them and with them and because of them than any mainstream, traditional
parent would even think about.
Deb Lewis
The first time I heard the term "unparenting" was years ago on some list
and the person using it intended it as an insult against those people
happily living a level of unschooling she never reached. She meant
"neglect." She meant "you're all neglectful," but she didn't have the
balls to say that so she veiled her insult the way the people who use
"disingenuous" think they're veiling "you're lying." <g>
I don't mind that word "unparenting" because what most people call
parenting holds no appeal for me. I don't think it's a good thing to
threaten kids, to control them or to create and enforce arbitrary rules.
I don't think it's good to hit people who are smaller than you in order
to make them do what you want. That's what most parenting looks like.
But now, (you can google) there's a whole group of folks who "Unparent"
and they have a website and they advocate rethinking what parenting means
and they'd be pretty miffed, I think, if some y'all equated what they're
doing with neglect.<g> They're not unschoolers and they have ideas I
wholly disagree with and I'm not endorsing. I'm cautioning those of you
who throw that "unparenting" word around like it means what you want it
to mean because someone else has a different idea. <g> You may get your
ass kicked at some party somewhere. <g>
So if you're new here and this stuff sounds like neglect to you don't
bullshit us with thinly veiled insults. Ask about what you don't
understand and the nice folks here will do their best to answer.
For newbies and lurkers: We're not talking about or advocating neglect.
Unschooling will mean spending more time with your kids, doing things for
them and with them and because of them than any mainstream, traditional
parent would even think about.
Deb Lewis
Deb Lewis
***We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer.***
He's deschooling. It's very normal and even necessary. It will "reset"
his mind to real life and the real world. It will help him heal. You
can help him by not commenting negatively about his choices and by being
involved with what he's doing.
***The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything.***
You're misinterpreting his intentions. He simply wasn't thinking about
the benefits of helping out. He had other things on his mind. He wasn't
making a deliberate choice to not help. I don't want you to think badly
of him by continuing to think of him as wanting others to "wait on him
hand and foot." That is not a nice thing to think about someone else
and not a nice thing to say about someone else. You probably didn't
consider that when you wrote it, but if you think about it, you wouldn't
like to hear that about yourself, especially from someone you love.
It takes time. It might take more time that you think it should, but it
will take exactly the amount of time your son needs to deschool.
***...just a zombie face staring at a computer game.***
He's not a zombie. He's a person with a deep interest. If he was older
and performing a complicated surgery on a person would you say "zombie
face?" I don't think you would. It will help him and you to think of
his interests as important work, to think of his focus as deep and
meaningful. Absolutely no good will come from you thinking negatively
about him or his interests.
***his interest in everything else has disappeared.***
It hasn't disappeared it's simply not his focus now. Everyone has times
when they are focused on one thing more than anything else. If I'm in
the garden all summer it doesn't mean my interest in snowshoeing has
disappeared. If I'm reading a novel it doesn't mean my interest in non
fiction has disappeared. He's doing something important now and when
he's finished he'll do something else.
***I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience,***
Yeah, stop that. <g>
Every time you turn an interest into a "learning experience" you
interfere with the deschooling process. You and your son can't get away
from school if you are acting like a school teacher. Everything is a
learning experience whether you attempt to turn it into one or not. It
just is. Without your interference every single thing that your son can
think of or do is a learning experience. Looking out the window.
Sleeping. Dreaming. Walking down the road. Every moment the human mind
is gathering information that will connect to something now or in the
future. It's all learning. You will ruin it by trying to turn life into
school.
***has lost all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any
longer.***
If you've been homeschooling for two years this isn't a recent thing
then? Are you helping him stay in touch with the people he wants to
see? Are you helping him get to town to visit friends?
***He has lost interest in most of his toys, has quit sports,***
It's normal for kids to outgrow some things. Interests change. Do you
still do everything you did at nine?
You seem to be deliberately looking for things to be "wrong." I think it
would help you a lot to look for things to be ok. When he's really into
a game think of him as focused, not as "zombie faced." When one
interest is waning think of him as moving forward not "disinterested."
You may not realize how much a negative attitude on your part will affect
him and his choices.
***I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...***
Some people have said that every time a parent interferes with
deschooling the process has to start all over again and will take even
longer. So now you've set yourselves back and undone all your progress.
What I think will help *you* most is to learn more about unschooling.
Mary posted web sites for someone else and I'll post them again for you.
http://www.learninginfreedom.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
*** He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!! ***
You have to be willing to find a way to give your son what he needs. It
doesn't have to be expensive to go out and have fun. Pack a lunch and go
for a hike. Get some inner tubes and go to a lake. Go fly kites. Play
Frisbee. Throw darts. Go fishing. Plant a garden.
Field trips are school concoctions and you don't need school. You need
to go play and have fun. Please read at the web sites. You are still
trying to school your son even though you think you're unschooling.
When you really understand unschooling you'll see it doesn't look
anything like "learning experiences" and "educational" games and "field
trips." It looks like a rich full life of fun, which may include long
sessions on the computer. <g>
Deb Lewis
of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
staring at the computer.***
He's deschooling. It's very normal and even necessary. It will "reset"
his mind to real life and the real world. It will help him heal. You
can help him by not commenting negatively about his choices and by being
involved with what he's doing.
***The problem with all of this is that
he wanted everyone to wait on him hand and foot...but he wasn't
helping anyone else with anything.***
You're misinterpreting his intentions. He simply wasn't thinking about
the benefits of helping out. He had other things on his mind. He wasn't
making a deliberate choice to not help. I don't want you to think badly
of him by continuing to think of him as wanting others to "wait on him
hand and foot." That is not a nice thing to think about someone else
and not a nice thing to say about someone else. You probably didn't
consider that when you wrote it, but if you think about it, you wouldn't
like to hear that about yourself, especially from someone you love.
It takes time. It might take more time that you think it should, but it
will take exactly the amount of time your son needs to deschool.
***...just a zombie face staring at a computer game.***
He's not a zombie. He's a person with a deep interest. If he was older
and performing a complicated surgery on a person would you say "zombie
face?" I don't think you would. It will help him and you to think of
his interests as important work, to think of his focus as deep and
meaningful. Absolutely no good will come from you thinking negatively
about him or his interests.
***his interest in everything else has disappeared.***
It hasn't disappeared it's simply not his focus now. Everyone has times
when they are focused on one thing more than anything else. If I'm in
the garden all summer it doesn't mean my interest in snowshoeing has
disappeared. If I'm reading a novel it doesn't mean my interest in non
fiction has disappeared. He's doing something important now and when
he's finished he'll do something else.
***I've tried grabbing things he
mentions and turning them into a learning experience,***
Yeah, stop that. <g>
Every time you turn an interest into a "learning experience" you
interfere with the deschooling process. You and your son can't get away
from school if you are acting like a school teacher. Everything is a
learning experience whether you attempt to turn it into one or not. It
just is. Without your interference every single thing that your son can
think of or do is a learning experience. Looking out the window.
Sleeping. Dreaming. Walking down the road. Every moment the human mind
is gathering information that will connect to something now or in the
future. It's all learning. You will ruin it by trying to turn life into
school.
***has lost all of his "schooled" friends, since he doesn't attend any
longer.***
If you've been homeschooling for two years this isn't a recent thing
then? Are you helping him stay in touch with the people he wants to
see? Are you helping him get to town to visit friends?
***He has lost interest in most of his toys, has quit sports,***
It's normal for kids to outgrow some things. Interests change. Do you
still do everything you did at nine?
You seem to be deliberately looking for things to be "wrong." I think it
would help you a lot to look for things to be ok. When he's really into
a game think of him as focused, not as "zombie faced." When one
interest is waning think of him as moving forward not "disinterested."
You may not realize how much a negative attitude on your part will affect
him and his choices.
***I am so frustrated! We tried going back to the "Relaxed" method today
only to have a HUGE argument, a tantrum, and hurt feelings all the
way around...***
Some people have said that every time a parent interferes with
deschooling the process has to start all over again and will take even
longer. So now you've set yourselves back and undone all your progress.
What I think will help *you* most is to learn more about unschooling.
Mary posted web sites for someone else and I'll post them again for you.
http://www.learninginfreedom.com/
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
*** He loves
hands-on things, and field trips, but, frankly, we can't afford to be
doing this type of stuff every day!! ***
You have to be willing to find a way to give your son what he needs. It
doesn't have to be expensive to go out and have fun. Pack a lunch and go
for a hike. Get some inner tubes and go to a lake. Go fly kites. Play
Frisbee. Throw darts. Go fishing. Plant a garden.
Field trips are school concoctions and you don't need school. You need
to go play and have fun. Please read at the web sites. You are still
trying to school your son even though you think you're unschooling.
When you really understand unschooling you'll see it doesn't look
anything like "learning experiences" and "educational" games and "field
trips." It looks like a rich full life of fun, which may include long
sessions on the computer. <g>
Deb Lewis
Pamela Sorooshian
On May 26, 2006, at 3:05 PM, zenmomma@... wrote:
assumption made over and over - that kids will choose what is not
good for them and, therefore, a parent's job is to set limits to make
sure they do what is good for them. Well, yes, just like adults, kids
WILL sometimes choose what is not good for them. Do WE always do what
we know is good for us?
Why shouldn't parents control their children's lives, making sure
they only do what the parents think is "good for them?"
It is because the "choosing" is really important in the child's
psychological development, both individually, to move toward self-
actualization in his/her own life, and socially, to function as a
valuable member of a democratic society. And if a person can't make
"real" choices, then his/her so-called freedom is not real. It is a
delusion to believe you are free, if your choices are limited to
those that someone else has determined are healthy for you.
We see too many people, these days, willing to give up their own
freedoms, in exchange for protection or security or even just for
convenience. A society composed of compliant people is orderly, and,
for some, reassuring and comforting - this is the allure of a
dictator! Independence and liberty are messy and risky. This is as
true within a family as it is for society as a whole.
Many parenting books talk about offering children limited choices,
such as asking: "Do you want the red shirt or the blue shirt today?"
The point of these "choices" is not to give real choice, but to fake
the kid out - to give the child the illusion of having a choice. This
is done for the convenience of the parent whose motivation is to get
the child dressed quickly, usually in order to more efficiently get
out the door to school or daycare. But this kind of control over
children's lives, carried on throughout childhood at home and at
school, often leads to dangerous levels of passivity and apathy,
unengaged teenagers who don't think for themselves and are too easily
led by others, or to passive resistance or even active rebellion,
which we see in teenagers who flaunt their rejection of all authority
and engage in dangerous antisocial behaviors. Unschoolers are
striving for something different - our goal is raising truly free
children who will grow up to insist on thinking for themselves and
will never be easily controlled by others. Unschoolers around the
world are demonstrating that parents and kids, together, can, in
fact, set up a home environment that supports true freedom and
provides MANY options - real choices, not "fake" ones.
Unschooling parents do not abdicate parental responsibility, they do
not deprive their children of their protection and care, but they do
go far beyond most parents, now or historically, in choosing support
of freedom over parental control and convenience, as they offer real
choices in an environment that does not focus on limiting a child's
options, but provides nearly boundless opportunity. A friend of mine
once said that unschooling can feel a lot like jumping off a cliff,
not knowing if you have wings to fly. And I think it can look just
about that foolish, from outside, too! But there are unschooled kids
soaring all over the place, these days, and all we have to do is look
at them, look at their energy and love of life and learning, watch as
they pursue their dreams with confidence and gusto, to know that John
Holt was right when he said, "Children do not need to be made to
learn to be better, told what to do or shown how. If they are given
access to enough of the world, they will see clearly enough what
things are truly important to themselves and to others, and they will
make for themselves a better path into that world than anyone else
could make for them."*
*John Holt in "How Children Fail"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> Although some kids might think an all day video-game, cookieI wanted to emphasize Mary's point here - because we see this
> eating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a parent we know that
> would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in the long term.
> Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes the point.>>
>
> It seems like you're assuming that this is the choice most children
> would make if given the chance. What people here are saying is that
> we've found that not to be true. Our children were given the
> freedom to regulate their eating, sleeping and interests. What
> we've found is that kids with choices do not automatically choose
> the worst possible option. Sure sometimes there's a cookie for
> breakfast or a skipped bath or three, but more times there are good
> choices and a healthy, happy kid.
assumption made over and over - that kids will choose what is not
good for them and, therefore, a parent's job is to set limits to make
sure they do what is good for them. Well, yes, just like adults, kids
WILL sometimes choose what is not good for them. Do WE always do what
we know is good for us?
Why shouldn't parents control their children's lives, making sure
they only do what the parents think is "good for them?"
It is because the "choosing" is really important in the child's
psychological development, both individually, to move toward self-
actualization in his/her own life, and socially, to function as a
valuable member of a democratic society. And if a person can't make
"real" choices, then his/her so-called freedom is not real. It is a
delusion to believe you are free, if your choices are limited to
those that someone else has determined are healthy for you.
We see too many people, these days, willing to give up their own
freedoms, in exchange for protection or security or even just for
convenience. A society composed of compliant people is orderly, and,
for some, reassuring and comforting - this is the allure of a
dictator! Independence and liberty are messy and risky. This is as
true within a family as it is for society as a whole.
Many parenting books talk about offering children limited choices,
such as asking: "Do you want the red shirt or the blue shirt today?"
The point of these "choices" is not to give real choice, but to fake
the kid out - to give the child the illusion of having a choice. This
is done for the convenience of the parent whose motivation is to get
the child dressed quickly, usually in order to more efficiently get
out the door to school or daycare. But this kind of control over
children's lives, carried on throughout childhood at home and at
school, often leads to dangerous levels of passivity and apathy,
unengaged teenagers who don't think for themselves and are too easily
led by others, or to passive resistance or even active rebellion,
which we see in teenagers who flaunt their rejection of all authority
and engage in dangerous antisocial behaviors. Unschoolers are
striving for something different - our goal is raising truly free
children who will grow up to insist on thinking for themselves and
will never be easily controlled by others. Unschoolers around the
world are demonstrating that parents and kids, together, can, in
fact, set up a home environment that supports true freedom and
provides MANY options - real choices, not "fake" ones.
Unschooling parents do not abdicate parental responsibility, they do
not deprive their children of their protection and care, but they do
go far beyond most parents, now or historically, in choosing support
of freedom over parental control and convenience, as they offer real
choices in an environment that does not focus on limiting a child's
options, but provides nearly boundless opportunity. A friend of mine
once said that unschooling can feel a lot like jumping off a cliff,
not knowing if you have wings to fly. And I think it can look just
about that foolish, from outside, too! But there are unschooled kids
soaring all over the place, these days, and all we have to do is look
at them, look at their energy and love of life and learning, watch as
they pursue their dreams with confidence and gusto, to know that John
Holt was right when he said, "Children do not need to be made to
learn to be better, told what to do or shown how. If they are given
access to enough of the world, they will see clearly enough what
things are truly important to themselves and to others, and they will
make for themselves a better path into that world than anyone else
could make for them."*
*John Holt in "How Children Fail"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanne
Pam, as always, I loved your whole post. I'd like to post it to my
blog if it's okay. :-)
Thanks for all you do here...it is appreciated (not only by me-but
by my children as well)
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
blog if it's okay. :-)
Thanks for all you do here...it is appreciated (not only by me-but
by my children as well)
~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>that
>
> On May 26, 2006, at 3:05 PM, zenmomma@... wrote:
>
> >>> Although some kids might think an all day video-game, cookie
> > eating, bath-free world would be fabulous, as a parent we know
> > would lead to illness in the short term, obesity in the longterm.
> > Obvsiously that's an extreme example, but it makes the point.>>children
> >
> > It seems like you're assuming that this is the choice most
> > would make if given the chance. What people here are saying isthat
> > we've found that not to be true. Our children were given thechoose
> > freedom to regulate their eating, sleeping and interests. What
> > we've found is that kids with choices do not automatically
> > the worst possible option. Sure sometimes there's a cookie forgood
> > breakfast or a skipped bath or three, but more times there are
> > choices and a healthy, happy kid.make
>
> I wanted to emphasize Mary's point here - because we see this
> assumption made over and over - that kids will choose what is not
> good for them and, therefore, a parent's job is to set limits to
> sure they do what is good for them. Well, yes, just like adults,kids
> WILL sometimes choose what is not good for them. Do WE always dowhat
> we know is good for us?make
>
> Why shouldn't parents control their children's lives, making sure
> they only do what the parents think is "good for them?"
>
> It is because the "choosing" is really important in the child's
> psychological development, both individually, to move toward self-
> actualization in his/her own life, and socially, to function as a
> valuable member of a democratic society. And if a person can't
> "real" choices, then his/her so-called freedom is not real. It isa
> delusion to believe you are free, if your choices are limited toand,
> those that someone else has determined are healthy for you.
>
> We see too many people, these days, willing to give up their own
> freedoms, in exchange for protection or security or even just for
> convenience. A society composed of compliant people is orderly,
> for some, reassuring and comforting - this is the allure of aas
> dictator! Independence and liberty are messy and risky. This is
> true within a family as it is for society as a whole.choices,
>
> Many parenting books talk about offering children limited
> such as asking: "Do you want the red shirt or the blue shirttoday?"
> The point of these "choices" is not to give real choice, but tofake
> the kid out - to give the child the illusion of having a choice.This
> is done for the convenience of the parent whose motivation is toget
> the child dressed quickly, usually in order to more efficientlyget
> out the door to school or daycare. But this kind of control overeasily
> children's lives, carried on throughout childhood at home and at
> school, often leads to dangerous levels of passivity and apathy,
> unengaged teenagers who don't think for themselves and are too
> led by others, or to passive resistance or even active rebellion,authority
> which we see in teenagers who flaunt their rejection of all
> and engage in dangerous antisocial behaviors. Unschoolers areand
> striving for something different - our goal is raising truly free
> children who will grow up to insist on thinking for themselves
> will never be easily controlled by others. Unschoolers around thedo
> world are demonstrating that parents and kids, together, can, in
> fact, set up a home environment that supports true freedom and
> provides MANY options - real choices, not "fake" ones.
>
> Unschooling parents do not abdicate parental responsibility, they
> not deprive their children of their protection and care, but theydo
> go far beyond most parents, now or historically, in choosingsupport
> of freedom over parental control and convenience, as they offerreal
> choices in an environment that does not focus on limiting achild's
> options, but provides nearly boundless opportunity. A friend ofmine
> once said that unschooling can feel a lot like jumping off acliff,
> not knowing if you have wings to fly. And I think it can lookjust
> about that foolish, from outside, too! But there are unschooledkids
> soaring all over the place, these days, and all we have to do islook
> at them, look at their energy and love of life and learning, watchas
> they pursue their dreams with confidence and gusto, to know thatJohn
> Holt was right when he said, "Children do not need to be made togiven
> learn to be better, told what to do or shown how. If they are
> access to enough of the world, they will see clearly enough whatwill
> things are truly important to themselves and to others, and they
> make for themselves a better path into that world than anyoneelse
> could make for them."*
>
>
>
> *John Holt in "How Children Fail"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Melissa
Deb,
It's a great post!!! We started deschooling in November 2005, and
we're just now seeing the affects. I wanted the original poster to
know that it does take time, and to have faith. It's been hard for
me, I've always wanted to teach, and now it's been a big adjustment
to step back and facilitate.
I have noticed that on days when I'm trying to get us our the door
for something, suddenly the TV and computer become much more
important because they are perceiving that I'm restricting their
usage. It's fair. Just because they want to go somewhere doesn't mean
they want to give up their show to do it right now. Regardless of
convenience for me! :-)
Yesterday was very nice though, I'm watching two kids the rest of the
summer (now that they are out of school, it's amazing how if you're
the SAHM everyone assumes you'll be willing to do that, but I was so
I guess it doesn't matter) I fully assumed that the first day of
summer break would be spent in front of the TV drooling. Esp them
since they live with restrictions all the time. The boys played
MarioParty for about an hour while the girls floated around. One
child wanted to go in the backyard, but I had just sprayed for
mosquitoes, and said it had to wait. So next thing you know, everyone
is in the front yard, playing tag and hide-n-go seek. If I would have
suggested it, it never would have happened, but here the kids were,
running slow so that Dan could catch them, chasing Sam slowly so that
he could get away, and they played for TWO hours. I called them in
for lunch (and to cool down, it was nearly 100 yesterday!)
Even a month ago I never would have seen that, it still would have
been all about the television. But gradually they've gotten past
that, they know when they want it they can have it, no questions
asked and no eyes rolled (trust me, I did my fair share of that last
year!) SO I guess we have done about a month for every year that they
were schooled. Josh and Bre are the two that are still figuring
things out, they'd been in school for five years, and then when
school let out, we did four months of homeschooling. They did enjoy
that, but they like this better.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
It's a great post!!! We started deschooling in November 2005, and
we're just now seeing the affects. I wanted the original poster to
know that it does take time, and to have faith. It's been hard for
me, I've always wanted to teach, and now it's been a big adjustment
to step back and facilitate.
I have noticed that on days when I'm trying to get us our the door
for something, suddenly the TV and computer become much more
important because they are perceiving that I'm restricting their
usage. It's fair. Just because they want to go somewhere doesn't mean
they want to give up their show to do it right now. Regardless of
convenience for me! :-)
Yesterday was very nice though, I'm watching two kids the rest of the
summer (now that they are out of school, it's amazing how if you're
the SAHM everyone assumes you'll be willing to do that, but I was so
I guess it doesn't matter) I fully assumed that the first day of
summer break would be spent in front of the TV drooling. Esp them
since they live with restrictions all the time. The boys played
MarioParty for about an hour while the girls floated around. One
child wanted to go in the backyard, but I had just sprayed for
mosquitoes, and said it had to wait. So next thing you know, everyone
is in the front yard, playing tag and hide-n-go seek. If I would have
suggested it, it never would have happened, but here the kids were,
running slow so that Dan could catch them, chasing Sam slowly so that
he could get away, and they played for TWO hours. I called them in
for lunch (and to cool down, it was nearly 100 yesterday!)
Even a month ago I never would have seen that, it still would have
been all about the television. But gradually they've gotten past
that, they know when they want it they can have it, no questions
asked and no eyes rolled (trust me, I did my fair share of that last
year!) SO I guess we have done about a month for every year that they
were schooled. Josh and Bre are the two that are still figuring
things out, they'd been in school for five years, and then when
school let out, we did four months of homeschooling. They did enjoy
that, but they like this better.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On May 27, 2006, at 11:05 AM, Deb Lewis wrote:
>
> ***We live on a beautiful 10 acre property and have tons
> of stuff available for him to do, yet, he insists on sitting inside
> staring at the computer.***
>
> He's deschooling. It's very normal and even necessary. It will
> "reset"
> his mind to real life and the real world. It will help him heal. You
> can help him by not commenting negatively about his choices and by
> being
> involved with what he's doing.
[email protected]
>>I wanted to emphasize Mary's point here>>Wow Pam! My point was really eloquent. <g>
Thank you for that entire post. It really *did* speak volumes on the point I was hoping to make. It just did it so much more powerfully. It's a keeper!
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]