Natalie Komitsky

You know I just went back to the main site for this list to see if I
had joined a support group or not. And whatayaknow it really doesn't
mention support.

It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a few
simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the manner
in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
realities of the world.

And about being gifted, I first learned of the term unschooling
through multiple aquaintences who are gifted or have gifted children.
If any of you have read about the subject or dealt with the subject,
you would understand my intention in bringing it up to gain support
with our multiple issues of asynchronous development and other
challenges.

Ah, but yes, I made an error in judgment. I thought this was a
support group. Apparently you have no such intention.

I did not expect that I would not be met with opposing viewpoints but
I would have hoped that they would be offered in a respectful,
"joyful" manner, considering that a "joyful" life is your professed
goal.

Joanne

Natalie,

I'm sorry you feel personally attacked and criticized. When I first
started learning about unschooling, I read more than I posted and
that helped me not take anything personal. I hope you stick around.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com




--- In [email protected], "Natalie Komitsky"
<nkomitsky@...> wrote:
>
> You know I just went back to the main site for this list to see if
I
> had joined a support group or not. And whatayaknow it really
doesn't
> mention support.
>
> It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
> spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
> philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a
few
> simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
> insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
> choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the
manner
> in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
> realities of the world.
>
> And about being gifted, I first learned of the term unschooling
> through multiple aquaintences who are gifted or have gifted
children.
> If any of you have read about the subject or dealt with the
subject,
> you would understand my intention in bringing it up to gain support
> with our multiple issues of asynchronous development and other
> challenges.
>
> Ah, but yes, I made an error in judgment. I thought this was a
> support group. Apparently you have no such intention.
>
> I did not expect that I would not be met with opposing viewpoints
but
> I would have hoped that they would be offered in a respectful,
> "joyful" manner, considering that a "joyful" life is your professed
> goal.
>

Rue Kream

>>It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a few
simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the manner
in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
realities of the world.


**But pointing out that it's important to share honest information with our
children and to trust them to make choices for themselves IS spelling out
how unschooling philosophies are different from other philosophies. Honesty
and trust are heart and soul of unschooling.

It's not personal. I understand it feels personal, but it's about the ideas
you've brought up, not *you*. I've been on this list since it began. I'm a
moderator. I know a bunch of these people personally. If I came on and said
that I told my daughter Rowan that she had to be married before she could
have a baby, believe me, people would take that up for discussion!

I hope you'll keep reading about unschooling - if not here, on other lists
and sites. It's a wonderful way to live. ~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Natalie Komitsky <nkomitsky@...>

You know I just went back to the main site for this list to see if I
had joined a support group or not. And whatayaknow it really doesn't
mention support.

-=-=-=-=

You know, that seems to come as a surprise to a lot of people! <g>

-=-=-=-=-

It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a few
simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the manner
in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
realities of the world.

-=-=-=-

Really, you weren't asking questions so much as you were telling us
what you did. Volunteering to us stories about your kids and your
parenting.

Have you examined what we wrote? Does it make any sense?

Does it make any sense to others who have read???

-=-=-=-=-=-

And about being gifted, I first learned of the term unschooling
through multiple aquaintences who are gifted or have gifted children.
If any of you have read about the subject or dealt with the subject,
you would understand my intention in bringing it up to gain support
with our multiple issues of asynchronous development and other
challenges.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Well, many of us (and/or our children) have been/would have been/could
be labeled as "gifted" with the common definition of the word.

Unschooling, though, sees each person as unique. Giftedness only occurs
when used in comparing one person to another.

We're not comparing, so the word "gifted" is simply unnecessary in our
world!

--=-=-=-

Ah, but yes, I made an error in judgment. I thought this was a
support group. Apparently you have no such intention.

-=-=-=

Right, And you're not the first to think that---nor will you be the
last. And if you hang around long enough (and usually that's not very
long at all! <g>), you will giggle when it comes around on the guitar
again!

--=-=-=-

I did not expect that I would not be met with opposing viewpoints but
I would have hoped that they would be offered in a respectful,
"joyful" manner, considering that a "joyful" life is your professed
goal.

-=-=-=-

Well, I guess that depends on *how* you read posts. I read "joyful" and
"respectful" and "helpful" in most posts.

Just because *you* are fighting it doesn't mean the message isn't
getting through to someone else---joyfully and respectfully.

Here's something I just stole from another list:

"The list is about ideas, not about people.

"Think of ideas like balls and the list like a ball court. If someone
tosses an idea worth discussing into the court it's going to get
batted about. At that point what's going on is no longer about the
person who tossed the idea in. It's about the idea and how well and
cleanly it's being tossed about. (Unless the tosser keeps jumping in
and grabbing the idea ball saying "Mine!")" ~Joyce Fetteroll, genius
that she is

The advice/criticism you received may not put a dent in the way you
parent. Chances *are*, it will! <g> BUT if it makes at least one other
reader examine *her* parenting/lifestyle/thinking, then the list is
working.

This really isn't an easy concept to grasp. It can be very stressful to
examine all you hold dear. And it can be very painful to change the way
you're acting/thinking/being.

But newbies get it every day! And their lives and the lives of their
children improve dramatically! Really!


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Marie Pressman

Just hang in, read and try to listen to what's being discussed. I am new
here myself and this philosophy requires a new train of thought. Even
though it goes against everything I was taught, I believe the responses
given are profoundly clear as well as purposefully blunt and to the point.
If the unschooling voices of wisdom here tip-toed around your posts, it
would be a tremendous waste of precious time and a disservice to inquiries
seeking honest insight to what this philosophy is all about. Please stick
with it if you inclined to learn something entirely new.

[Marie Pressman] -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Rue Kream
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] support vs. discussion


>>It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a few
simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the manner
in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
realities of the world.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I've been watching the numbers here surge over the last three days. I'm
guessing from Ren's recent celebrity bits in People and on the Chicago
radio show.

We just hit 900 members a few minutes ago. WOW!

Welcome to all out new members.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Pamela Sorooshian

On May 17, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Natalie Komitsky wrote:

> And about being gifted, I first learned of the term unschooling
> through multiple aquaintences who are gifted or have gifted children.
> If any of you have read about the subject or dealt with the subject,
> you would understand my intention in bringing it up to gain support
> with our multiple issues of asynchronous development and other
> challenges.

I am VERY familiar with the literature on "gifted" children. I have a
21 year old daughter and an 18 yo daughter who were in the GATE
program in school, until we began homeschooling/unschooling when they
were 10 and 7 years old. I was a member of CAG (California
Association for the Gifted) and I attended conference, read
everything I could get my hands on and was a strong booster for
"gifted education."

Don't assume that none of us have read about the subject or dealt
with the subject - we HAVE and we thoroughly understand it.

It will become irrelevant if you unschool and you'll start to
understand that the "label" can be harmful.

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melanie Ilsley

Some people may not get support from this list, but being new to unschooling, I have.
That doesn't mean people have said "you are right", but that people have helped guide me
in the right direction for unschooling. I don't post often, but I read the posts almost every
day, and usually the posts change something in my thinking which was keeping us away
from totally unschooling. That doesn't mean it is easy, our whole lives are changing, BUT
it IS amazing. Stick around, if you post something expect people to tell you how it fits (or
doesn't fit) into the unschooling basics, which is why I am here!

Melanie in Vt
--- In [email protected], "Natalie Komitsky" <nkomitsky@...> wrote:
>
> You know I just went back to the main site for this list to see if I
> had joined a support group or not. And whatayaknow it really doesn't
> mention support.
>
> It makes sense to me that a group called unschooling basics would
> spell out how unschooling philosophies were different from other
> philosophies. I did not expect that it also meant that asking a few
> simple questions would be met with a barrage of personal attacks
> insinuating that I have a lack of maturity, a fatal flaw in making
> choices about the images viewed in my home, and criticizing the manner
> in which I chose to translate, in an age-appropriate way, the
> realities of the world.
>
> And about being gifted, I first learned of the term unschooling
> through multiple aquaintences who are gifted or have gifted children.
> If any of you have read about the subject or dealt with the subject,
> you would understand my intention in bringing it up to gain support
> with our multiple issues of asynchronous development and other
> challenges.
>
> Ah, but yes, I made an error in judgment. I thought this was a
> support group. Apparently you have no such intention.
>
> I did not expect that I would not be met with opposing viewpoints but
> I would have hoped that they would be offered in a respectful,
> "joyful" manner, considering that a "joyful" life is your professed
> goal.
>

Joanne

The longer we're free of the school system, the more I see things
differently such as the labels "gifted" and "learning disabled".

My two oldest had the "learning disabled" noose hung on them for
many years while in school, even before the adoption. My youngest
was the opposite..."advanced" was something I heard a lot from the
teachers, when she was in school.

But disabled as compared to what? Gifted by whose standards?
Aren't they in fact just being themselves? Why does the school
system think we all have to move through life at the same pace as
others our own age?

I don't know anything about cars, except how to drive one. I don't
know a Toyota from a Mazda, let alone all the different models. I
don't know what a carborator looks like, I'm not sure what it's
function is and I don't think I even spelled it correctly.
My son does though. He knows much more about how a car works than I
do. He can look at most cars and tell what model it is and he knows
the names of all the new cars that are coming out. He knows what the
names of most car parts are and their function also. Does that make
him gifted and me learning disabled?

My middle child knows a lot about horses. She knows how to ride
them, feed them, groom them. She knows the names of the different
breeds and is learning how to train them. Me? I know nothing about
horses except that when I get to close to one, I sneeze. Is she
gifted in horses? Am I learning disabled in horses?

It seems to me that children are "rewarded" with the gifted label
when they can learn within the way the schools are designed for them
to learn. Children are degraded with the learning disabled label
when they don't. That has nothing to do with the real world. When a
school fails to teach a child they way that child needs to be
taught, the child is labled a failure, when in actuality, the
responsibility should be on the school.

If my youngest was still in school, she'd be beyond children her
age, but is she gifted? No, she's just being herself. She's exactly
where she should be, just being Jacqueline.
As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled for her that she'll never be
labeled "gifted".
I would never want her to think that living down to (not living up
to) a failing, broken down school system is what makes one "gifted".

I want my children to repect their individuality and go through life
at their own pace, not being compared to others.

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com