*SIGH* Big dh hurdle to try and overcome
Ren Allen
"I love my husband and don't want to be divorced over this, I don't
know what to do. I've stood my ground but what good does it do when
DS cares so much about what his dad says?"
Well, divorce would be much more harmful to them than schoolish stuff
in this case.:)
BUT, is there any way you can get to a conference this year? I've seen
many Dad "conversions" there.
I haven't heard great things about the "Grown without Schooling" video
thus far. Cameron Lovejoy is working on a radical unschooling
documentary video I believe (can you give us an update Kelly?).
I just explained the situation to my dh and asked him what will help a
guy like your dh, that is so stuck in schoolish thinking. He said "two
things; time and patience":)
Not so easy when time is of the essence. He said it was baby steps for
him. I can definitely agree with that!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
know what to do. I've stood my ground but what good does it do when
DS cares so much about what his dad says?"
Well, divorce would be much more harmful to them than schoolish stuff
in this case.:)
BUT, is there any way you can get to a conference this year? I've seen
many Dad "conversions" there.
I haven't heard great things about the "Grown without Schooling" video
thus far. Cameron Lovejoy is working on a radical unschooling
documentary video I believe (can you give us an update Kelly?).
I just explained the situation to my dh and asked him what will help a
guy like your dh, that is so stuck in schoolish thinking. He said "two
things; time and patience":)
Not so easy when time is of the essence. He said it was baby steps for
him. I can definitely agree with that!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
aplan4life
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
I agree, so if he still doesn't get it after reading my 'book' perhaps
I'm better off with relaxed schooling and just sticking with it
because this back and forth shit is not healthy at all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sadly, no, his vacation days are going to be swooped up with our
family that is spread out between VA, MI and TX and the children are
begging to go to Las Vegas and see their friends who moved there about
a year and a half ago.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
two things; time and patience":)
Thanks for asking your DH, Ren. I agree with you two also. I'm tired
of not being heard, tired of not being trusted, tired of Zak being
pulled one way and another. Why is it that it seems the majority of
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?
~Sandy
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> Well, divorce would be much more harmful to them than schoolish stuff++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> in this case.:)
I agree, so if he still doesn't get it after reading my 'book' perhaps
I'm better off with relaxed schooling and just sticking with it
because this back and forth shit is not healthy at all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> BUT, is there any way you can get to a conference this year? I've seen+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> many Dad "conversions" there.
Sadly, no, his vacation days are going to be swooped up with our
family that is spread out between VA, MI and TX and the children are
begging to go to Las Vegas and see their friends who moved there about
a year and a half ago.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> I just explained the situation to my dh and asked him what will helpa guy like your dh, that is so stuck in schoolish thinking. He said
two things; time and patience":)
> Not so easy when time is of the essence. He said it was baby steps for++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> him. I can definitely agree with that!
Thanks for asking your DH, Ren. I agree with you two also. I'm tired
of not being heard, tired of not being trusted, tired of Zak being
pulled one way and another. Why is it that it seems the majority of
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?
~Sandy
Deb Lewis
***Well, divorce would be much more harmful to them than schoolish stuff
in this case. :) ***
Heck fire and tarnation yes, let's keep some perspective! Divorce is
nasty bad on kids and then, the kids would still be around their dad part
of the time and around him without you there as buffer, support, comfort.
Didn't this dad say he'd trust the mom on this issue? If I'm thinking
of the right dad, how about asking him one thing. When he's about to
say something school or learning related, ask him to take a deep breath
and say instead, "cool, I hope you have fun." Or something. At first
he'll forget. Then he'll remember but he'll remember AFTER he's said
the schooly thing. Then, with any luck, he'll remember just before it
comes out his mouth and he'll stop himself.
If he won't read then keep talking to him, but let it be in little
snippets and not in an "I'm here to educate you" kind of way but in the
way you'd share any interesting thing with him. Let your own
conversations with your kids be an example to him of happy, stress free
communication.
He doesn't have to understand it all right now in order to stop causing
stress. Just help him and yourselves over this one thing at this time,
if you can.
Has he read Rue's book? Maybe ask him to read that. "Parenting a Free
Child: An Unschooled Life" by Rue Kream http://www.freechild.info/
Deb Lewis
in this case. :) ***
Heck fire and tarnation yes, let's keep some perspective! Divorce is
nasty bad on kids and then, the kids would still be around their dad part
of the time and around him without you there as buffer, support, comfort.
Didn't this dad say he'd trust the mom on this issue? If I'm thinking
of the right dad, how about asking him one thing. When he's about to
say something school or learning related, ask him to take a deep breath
and say instead, "cool, I hope you have fun." Or something. At first
he'll forget. Then he'll remember but he'll remember AFTER he's said
the schooly thing. Then, with any luck, he'll remember just before it
comes out his mouth and he'll stop himself.
If he won't read then keep talking to him, but let it be in little
snippets and not in an "I'm here to educate you" kind of way but in the
way you'd share any interesting thing with him. Let your own
conversations with your kids be an example to him of happy, stress free
communication.
He doesn't have to understand it all right now in order to stop causing
stress. Just help him and yourselves over this one thing at this time,
if you can.
Has he read Rue's book? Maybe ask him to read that. "Parenting a Free
Child: An Unschooled Life" by Rue Kream http://www.freechild.info/
Deb Lewis
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/2006 6:03:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I agree, so if he still doesn't get it after reading my 'book' perhaps
I'm better off with relaxed schooling and just sticking with it
because this back and forth shit is not healthy at all.
****************
You and the kids don't have to change what you're doing. You feel good about
it. The kids are starting to get it. It's okay if in a friendly way you
express that Dad doesn't understand unschooling yet, so he's going to need time.
In the meantime, don't worry about his getting unschooling -- help him
figure out ways to communicate with the kids that won't make the kids feel
squashed. I'd ask him to read something like "Liberated Parents, Liberated Children"
or "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Faber
and Mazlish.
The thing about all this stuff is that it can be scary! Your husband was
psyched when your son had this goal because it made him feel safe. He could
tell people that his 12 year old son was studying because he wants to finish
high school and go to college early. He WILL get it, but he needs time to see it
in action. Think about it....you've read here for a long time, and just NOW
you've become passionate.
Ask him to look for stuff that your kids are doing that seem cool, or to
find things that they can do together that will be fun. Ask him to be gentle in
his communications with them. Tell him you'll try to be patient as he goes
through HIS process.
I suspect your son's interest in the GED was a kind of Prodigy Complex. He
liked the idea of entering college really, really young...that would seem
impressive! He might be a kid who would really like a big, flashy project that
could get him a lot of attention. That's not a bad thing.
It's going to be okay. He sounds like he's a nice guy who adores his kids,
and you. Changes, good, bad, big, little can be challenging. Don't worry.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
I agree, so if he still doesn't get it after reading my 'book' perhaps
I'm better off with relaxed schooling and just sticking with it
because this back and forth shit is not healthy at all.
****************
You and the kids don't have to change what you're doing. You feel good about
it. The kids are starting to get it. It's okay if in a friendly way you
express that Dad doesn't understand unschooling yet, so he's going to need time.
In the meantime, don't worry about his getting unschooling -- help him
figure out ways to communicate with the kids that won't make the kids feel
squashed. I'd ask him to read something like "Liberated Parents, Liberated Children"
or "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Faber
and Mazlish.
The thing about all this stuff is that it can be scary! Your husband was
psyched when your son had this goal because it made him feel safe. He could
tell people that his 12 year old son was studying because he wants to finish
high school and go to college early. He WILL get it, but he needs time to see it
in action. Think about it....you've read here for a long time, and just NOW
you've become passionate.
Ask him to look for stuff that your kids are doing that seem cool, or to
find things that they can do together that will be fun. Ask him to be gentle in
his communications with them. Tell him you'll try to be patient as he goes
through HIS process.
I suspect your son's interest in the GED was a kind of Prodigy Complex. He
liked the idea of entering college really, really young...that would seem
impressive! He might be a kid who would really like a big, flashy project that
could get him a lot of attention. That's not a bad thing.
It's going to be okay. He sounds like he's a nice guy who adores his kids,
and you. Changes, good, bad, big, little can be challenging. Don't worry.
Kathryn
Come to the Northeast Unschooling Conference, Memorial Day Weekend, May
26-28, 2006 in Peabody, Massachusetts! www.NortheastUnschoolingConference.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
<<Why is it that it seems the majority of
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?>>
It is, unfortunately, a very general thing with men. When women are pregnant they will read all kinds of books and such; men will not. Women feel very connected to their children from the start - mostly because we are carrying them. I think men always feel "late to the party".
Also, men tend to be very 'logical' beings, and so they are more apt to stick with what works. Women will sway with the changing needs of their children. My husband always says women are like the seasons and men are like time - and it's true. And both work really well together. It just takes time for a man to see certain things that are outside of his realm of "expertise". But, given time, it's possible for them to come around and understand.
Be true to RU, take your time with it. Don't force it on your husband just as you wouldn't force workbooks on your kids. Allow him to share in the fun and the living, and continue to talk to him about it. Talk to your children too, and help them to understand (as someone else said) that it will take time for dad to 'get it', but that he loves them just the same.
My husband is s-l-o-w-l-y coming around, bit by bit. He (like many men) likes to feel in control of situations, and unschooling can look and feel very out of control. He's learning to let go of the "that's not how it was done in my house" and "I wasn't like that as a child" etc, etc (sigh), and he's enjoying his children much more.
Ask your husband why he wanted to have children. Was it just to have little people mimick him? Or was it to enjoy watching them unfold and learn about life. Did he have children to say "yes, I have children" or did he have children to watch someone else's spirit blossom, and to be a guide and facilitator for that spirit.
Of course, word that in a very non-judgmental way, and in a way that your particular husband will understand....and good luck with it.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/>
http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html<http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?>>
It is, unfortunately, a very general thing with men. When women are pregnant they will read all kinds of books and such; men will not. Women feel very connected to their children from the start - mostly because we are carrying them. I think men always feel "late to the party".
Also, men tend to be very 'logical' beings, and so they are more apt to stick with what works. Women will sway with the changing needs of their children. My husband always says women are like the seasons and men are like time - and it's true. And both work really well together. It just takes time for a man to see certain things that are outside of his realm of "expertise". But, given time, it's possible for them to come around and understand.
Be true to RU, take your time with it. Don't force it on your husband just as you wouldn't force workbooks on your kids. Allow him to share in the fun and the living, and continue to talk to him about it. Talk to your children too, and help them to understand (as someone else said) that it will take time for dad to 'get it', but that he loves them just the same.
My husband is s-l-o-w-l-y coming around, bit by bit. He (like many men) likes to feel in control of situations, and unschooling can look and feel very out of control. He's learning to let go of the "that's not how it was done in my house" and "I wasn't like that as a child" etc, etc (sigh), and he's enjoying his children much more.
Ask your husband why he wanted to have children. Was it just to have little people mimick him? Or was it to enjoy watching them unfold and learn about life. Did he have children to say "yes, I have children" or did he have children to watch someone else's spirit blossom, and to be a guide and facilitator for that spirit.
Of course, word that in a very non-judgmental way, and in a way that your particular husband will understand....and good luck with it.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/>
http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html<http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
<<Why is it that it seems the majority of
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?>>
It is, unfortunately, a very general thing with men. When women are pregnant they will read all kinds of books and such; men will not. Women feel very connected to their children from the start - mostly because we are carrying them. I think men always feel "late to the party".
Also, men tend to be very 'logical' beings, and so they are more apt to stick with what works. Women will sway with the changing needs of their children. My husband always says women are like the seasons and men are like time - and it's true. And both work really well together. It just takes time for a man to see certain things that are outside of his realm of "expertise". But, given time, it's possible for them to come around and understand.
Be true to RU, take your time with it. Don't force it on your husband just as you wouldn't force workbooks on your kids. Allow him to share in the fun and the living, and continue to talk to him about it. Talk to your children too, and help them to understand (as someone else said) that it will take time for dad to 'get it', but that he loves them just the same.
My husband is s-l-o-w-l-y coming around, bit by bit. He (like many men) likes to feel in control of situations, and unschooling can look and feel very out of control. He's learning to let go of the "that's not how it was done in my house" and "I wasn't like that as a child" etc, etc (sigh), and he's enjoying his children much more.
Ask your husband why he wanted to have children. Was it just to have little people mimick him? Or was it to enjoy watching them unfold and learn about life. Did he have children to say "yes, I have children" or did he have children to watch someone else's spirit blossom, and to be a guide and facilitator for that spirit.
Of course, word that in a very non-judgmental way, and in a way that your particular husband will understand....and good luck with it.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/>
http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html<http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
moms actually look into things concerning their children whereas Dads
don't (that is an in 'general' comment from reading many other posts
concerning DH's)?>>
It is, unfortunately, a very general thing with men. When women are pregnant they will read all kinds of books and such; men will not. Women feel very connected to their children from the start - mostly because we are carrying them. I think men always feel "late to the party".
Also, men tend to be very 'logical' beings, and so they are more apt to stick with what works. Women will sway with the changing needs of their children. My husband always says women are like the seasons and men are like time - and it's true. And both work really well together. It just takes time for a man to see certain things that are outside of his realm of "expertise". But, given time, it's possible for them to come around and understand.
Be true to RU, take your time with it. Don't force it on your husband just as you wouldn't force workbooks on your kids. Allow him to share in the fun and the living, and continue to talk to him about it. Talk to your children too, and help them to understand (as someone else said) that it will take time for dad to 'get it', but that he loves them just the same.
My husband is s-l-o-w-l-y coming around, bit by bit. He (like many men) likes to feel in control of situations, and unschooling can look and feel very out of control. He's learning to let go of the "that's not how it was done in my house" and "I wasn't like that as a child" etc, etc (sigh), and he's enjoying his children much more.
Ask your husband why he wanted to have children. Was it just to have little people mimick him? Or was it to enjoy watching them unfold and learn about life. Did he have children to say "yes, I have children" or did he have children to watch someone else's spirit blossom, and to be a guide and facilitator for that spirit.
Of course, word that in a very non-judgmental way, and in a way that your particular husband will understand....and good luck with it.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baltimoreunschoolers/>
http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html<http://www.geocities.com/maitai373/EarthSpirit.html>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]