Oops.....that came out totally wrong
Ren Allen
"Maybe I could
go from there and be encouraging regarding maybe the Pre-GED will help
prepare him better for SAT/ACT's and such?"
I have a stong feeling he's gotten the message that he's more "worthy"
if he does this sort of thing. Maybe the messages from your dh have
really gotten to Zak, as if playing his video games wasn't enough.
What is the hurry!??? The kid is 11 years of age, he should be worried
about being 11 not getting into college for crying out loud!! YES, I'd
tell him he can't take the test and to enjoy studying it for the sake
of studying it if that's what he truly enjoys.
I think he's not enjoying it so much as he's enjoying the thought of
making his parent proud by being in college at a young age. Ugh.
If he's just enjoying it, then the "end result" will not be so
important. If he likes ACT's and SAT's, he can practice them to his
hearts content without college.
If he likes college, he can take courses here and there without some
big commitment. Hell yes, I'd probably try to talk my 11 year old out
of going to college that young. If they were determined for some
reason, I'd have them take a continued education class to try out the
waters first.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
go from there and be encouraging regarding maybe the Pre-GED will help
prepare him better for SAT/ACT's and such?"
I have a stong feeling he's gotten the message that he's more "worthy"
if he does this sort of thing. Maybe the messages from your dh have
really gotten to Zak, as if playing his video games wasn't enough.
What is the hurry!??? The kid is 11 years of age, he should be worried
about being 11 not getting into college for crying out loud!! YES, I'd
tell him he can't take the test and to enjoy studying it for the sake
of studying it if that's what he truly enjoys.
I think he's not enjoying it so much as he's enjoying the thought of
making his parent proud by being in college at a young age. Ugh.
If he's just enjoying it, then the "end result" will not be so
important. If he likes ACT's and SAT's, he can practice them to his
hearts content without college.
If he likes college, he can take courses here and there without some
big commitment. Hell yes, I'd probably try to talk my 11 year old out
of going to college that young. If they were determined for some
reason, I'd have them take a continued education class to try out the
waters first.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
aplan4life
He actually got excited about a young age for college thanks to Grace
Llwellyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook". I read it and got excited
telling him about some of the stories of teens who were happy in life
and what they had done, I read from BOTH sides, the unschoolers who
went to college and those who didn't. With his passion for football,
he latched onto thinking how cool it was that some of the college kids
were as young as 12. Damn, I DID NOT MEAN TO DO THAT! I honestly did
not mean to do that and I sure as heck made a point to be just as
excited about the happy unschoolers who didn't go to college.<<< I'm
venting on myself.>>> I wanted to ensure him that unschooling was
awesome and we also talked about some things unschoolers are doing and
how they learn, my intention was to show him what a liberating
lifestyle that unschooling is and instead, I screwed it up.
You're right though too in that 'schoolish' crap still must be trapped
in him and although my DH and I didn't mean to we have given off that
message. I have been back-tracking now for over 2-3 weeks on my
initial excitement and Zak has been very irritated with me when I do
that. He's like, "I KNOW Mom, I know that college isn't everything, I
want to do this." Still, I do believe he is doing for DH more than
anything. When he told DH how he wanted to do this my DH was like,
"That's great son, studying hard, getting to college is a great goal.
" *SIGH* Because he and I aren't on the same page with unschooling
he still sometimes lets out that study hard, and college are important
even though...neither of his parents nor grandparents, nor my parents
or grandparents NOR siblings (except one of my step-brothers) ever
went to college!
Kicking myself in the ass~Sandy
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
Llwellyn's "Teenage Liberation Handbook". I read it and got excited
telling him about some of the stories of teens who were happy in life
and what they had done, I read from BOTH sides, the unschoolers who
went to college and those who didn't. With his passion for football,
he latched onto thinking how cool it was that some of the college kids
were as young as 12. Damn, I DID NOT MEAN TO DO THAT! I honestly did
not mean to do that and I sure as heck made a point to be just as
excited about the happy unschoolers who didn't go to college.<<< I'm
venting on myself.>>> I wanted to ensure him that unschooling was
awesome and we also talked about some things unschoolers are doing and
how they learn, my intention was to show him what a liberating
lifestyle that unschooling is and instead, I screwed it up.
You're right though too in that 'schoolish' crap still must be trapped
in him and although my DH and I didn't mean to we have given off that
message. I have been back-tracking now for over 2-3 weeks on my
initial excitement and Zak has been very irritated with me when I do
that. He's like, "I KNOW Mom, I know that college isn't everything, I
want to do this." Still, I do believe he is doing for DH more than
anything. When he told DH how he wanted to do this my DH was like,
"That's great son, studying hard, getting to college is a great goal.
" *SIGH* Because he and I aren't on the same page with unschooling
he still sometimes lets out that study hard, and college are important
even though...neither of his parents nor grandparents, nor my parents
or grandparents NOR siblings (except one of my step-brothers) ever
went to college!
Kicking myself in the ass~Sandy
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> "Maybe I could
> go from there and be encouraging regarding maybe the Pre-GED will help
> prepare him better for SAT/ACT's and such?"
>
> I have a stong feeling he's gotten the message that he's more "worthy"
> if he does this sort of thing. Maybe the messages from your dh have
> really gotten to Zak, as if playing his video games wasn't enough.
>
> What is the hurry!??? The kid is 11 years of age, he should be worried
> about being 11 not getting into college for crying out loud!! YES, I'd
> tell him he can't take the test and to enjoy studying it for the sake
> of studying it if that's what he truly enjoys.
>
> I think he's not enjoying it so much as he's enjoying the thought of
> making his parent proud by being in college at a young age. Ugh.
> If he's just enjoying it, then the "end result" will not be so
> important. If he likes ACT's and SAT's, he can practice them to his
> hearts content without college.
> If he likes college, he can take courses here and there without some
> big commitment. Hell yes, I'd probably try to talk my 11 year old out
> of going to college that young. If they were determined for some
> reason, I'd have them take a continued education class to try out the
> waters first.
>
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
trektheory
--- In [email protected], "aplan4life"
<aplan4life@...> wrote:
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?
BTW, make sure he knows that a GED is not necessary to go to college.
I know people who had kids go to college without a GED. Many of them
start at community college (dual enrollment and such), with just SAT
scores or whatall.
Linda
<aplan4life@...> wrote:
>important
> He's like, "I KNOW Mom, I know that college isn't everything, I
> want to do this." Still, I do believe he is doing for DH more than
> anything. When he told DH how he wanted to do this my DH was like,
> "That's great son, studying hard, getting to college is a great goal.
> " *SIGH* Because he and I aren't on the same page with unschooling
> he still sometimes lets out that study hard, and college are
> even though...neither of his parents nor grandparents, nor my parentsSeems to me, if unschooling is about respecting your child's choices
> or grandparents NOR siblings (except one of my step-brothers) ever
> went to college!
>
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?
BTW, make sure he knows that a GED is not necessary to go to college.
I know people who had kids go to college without a GED. Many of them
start at community college (dual enrollment and such), with just SAT
scores or whatall.
Linda
Ren Allen
"Seems to me, if unschooling is about respecting your child's choices
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?"
Yes and no.
Sure, college prep and college itself will be an important part of the
journey for many unschoolers. BUT, when you've got a kid that has had
messages sent to them that certain schoolish things are more important
and valid than their interests, it pays to really look at the
motivation behind the "college prep" interest.
Helping a formerly schooled child heal from all of that baggage is
part of the goal. We still need to validate and honor their choices,
schoolish or not, but also try to understand the deeper need and
issues surrounding the desire.
A GED is absolutely unecessary. You don't need it for college, you
don't need it for work. So hopefully his fascination with the whole
thing is simply because it's something new and he doesn't feel the
need to race to some imaginary finish line.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?"
Yes and no.
Sure, college prep and college itself will be an important part of the
journey for many unschoolers. BUT, when you've got a kid that has had
messages sent to them that certain schoolish things are more important
and valid than their interests, it pays to really look at the
motivation behind the "college prep" interest.
Helping a formerly schooled child heal from all of that baggage is
part of the goal. We still need to validate and honor their choices,
schoolish or not, but also try to understand the deeper need and
issues surrounding the desire.
A GED is absolutely unecessary. You don't need it for college, you
don't need it for work. So hopefully his fascination with the whole
thing is simply because it's something new and he doesn't feel the
need to race to some imaginary finish line.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Deb Lewis
***Seems to me, if unschooling is about respecting your child's choices
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?***
These kids are barely away from school, not out of the school's shadow so
to speak, and still deschooling. They won't be helped by the
glorification of school.
There is no way to help a person who's life has been schooled to see and
deeply understand unschooling except to let go of school.
Sometimes, natural learners choose academic pursuits *and* have a deep
understanding of natural learning. They realize the thing they've chosen
is only one of many choices and can be left off at any time. It has no
greater value than anything else.
But kids who do not fully understand that learning is as natural as
breathing will still rely on and place greater value on schoolish things.
That won't help unschooling.
If it was me, I'd be so busy with the kids, out in the world that they
didn't have time to think about school books and GEDs. I'd spend the
next year (and forever) making life so interesting and varied and vibrant
that school and it's entrapments became the most distant, surreal wisp of
memory.
The longer the mom and the kids hold on to school, the less time they all
will have in freedom and joy.
Deb Lewis
in learning, and college prep is HIS choice, he can study that stuff
and still be unschooling, right?***
These kids are barely away from school, not out of the school's shadow so
to speak, and still deschooling. They won't be helped by the
glorification of school.
There is no way to help a person who's life has been schooled to see and
deeply understand unschooling except to let go of school.
Sometimes, natural learners choose academic pursuits *and* have a deep
understanding of natural learning. They realize the thing they've chosen
is only one of many choices and can be left off at any time. It has no
greater value than anything else.
But kids who do not fully understand that learning is as natural as
breathing will still rely on and place greater value on schoolish things.
That won't help unschooling.
If it was me, I'd be so busy with the kids, out in the world that they
didn't have time to think about school books and GEDs. I'd spend the
next year (and forever) making life so interesting and varied and vibrant
that school and it's entrapments became the most distant, surreal wisp of
memory.
The longer the mom and the kids hold on to school, the less time they all
will have in freedom and joy.
Deb Lewis
aplan4life
--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
flying in and then on the 10th we're driving to Michigan until almost
Memorial Day Weekend and then my parents folks fly here on June 1st.
I've been posting frequently today because I NEED ALL of your all's
positivity in my mind because I know that we're going to encounter the
'schoolish' thought for the next month. EVERY single person we're
going to encounter in the next month loves their grandchildren and
will not harp on school BUT I know they'll raise issues.
I do not want schooling at all in our lives. After reading books from
John Holt, Grace Llwelyn and one other man, plus websites and blogs
and everything else regarding schooling, I have nothing but loathing
for the whole educational system and agree with EVERYTHING you all
here and they have to say regarding unschooling. There is no way on
earth that I could ever go back to the way things were and feel good
about it, I feel as though I've discovered the truth and can't go back
to the lie. :-)
I don't care if my kids go to college or not but I want to be able to
tell ds (who is dreaming of playing college football) with confidence
that if wants to go, he can but he doesn't need to concern himself
with it now. Who knows, he may find out that he does not like
football. Afterall, playing on a team here in our area and our area
is known for not only jerkoff coaches but parents may have him
reconsidering. I want him to enjoy football but he may not like the
requirements and put-downs people give nowadays...personally, I prefer
sports done as leisure and not competitively as I think they strip the
enjoyment out of them. Maybe Zak will feel the same. I do play
football with him in the backyard, not hardcore but if he asks me to
play, I play whether I feel like it or not.
Respectfully,
Sandy Winn
> If it was me, I'd be so busy with the kids, out in the world that theyvibrant
> didn't have time to think about school books and GEDs. I'd spend the
> next year (and forever) making life so interesting and varied and
> that school and it's entrapments became the most distant, surrealwisp of
> memory.I plan on it and hope that it works. Beginning this Friday my Dad is
flying in and then on the 10th we're driving to Michigan until almost
Memorial Day Weekend and then my parents folks fly here on June 1st.
I've been posting frequently today because I NEED ALL of your all's
positivity in my mind because I know that we're going to encounter the
'schoolish' thought for the next month. EVERY single person we're
going to encounter in the next month loves their grandchildren and
will not harp on school BUT I know they'll raise issues.
I do not want schooling at all in our lives. After reading books from
John Holt, Grace Llwelyn and one other man, plus websites and blogs
and everything else regarding schooling, I have nothing but loathing
for the whole educational system and agree with EVERYTHING you all
here and they have to say regarding unschooling. There is no way on
earth that I could ever go back to the way things were and feel good
about it, I feel as though I've discovered the truth and can't go back
to the lie. :-)
I don't care if my kids go to college or not but I want to be able to
tell ds (who is dreaming of playing college football) with confidence
that if wants to go, he can but he doesn't need to concern himself
with it now. Who knows, he may find out that he does not like
football. Afterall, playing on a team here in our area and our area
is known for not only jerkoff coaches but parents may have him
reconsidering. I want him to enjoy football but he may not like the
requirements and put-downs people give nowadays...personally, I prefer
sports done as leisure and not competitively as I think they strip the
enjoyment out of them. Maybe Zak will feel the same. I do play
football with him in the backyard, not hardcore but if he asks me to
play, I play whether I feel like it or not.
Respectfully,
Sandy Winn
[email protected]
**With his passion for football, he latched onto thinking how cool it was
that some of the college kids were as young as 12.** and previously **He WANTS
badly to play football in the fall and dreams of going to college in order to
play football someday and has even went so far as to speak about it
professionally.**
Find him a football team.
And somebody needs to talk honestly to him about football and college. If he
goes to college as a 12yo he will RUIN his chances of playing college
football. NCAA has strict rules about eligibility and how many years anyone can play.
At 12 he isn't going to be able to make a college team, no matter how
physically advanced he is. He hasn't had enough years of building skills to be
competitive.
Deborah in IL
that some of the college kids were as young as 12.** and previously **He WANTS
badly to play football in the fall and dreams of going to college in order to
play football someday and has even went so far as to speak about it
professionally.**
Find him a football team.
And somebody needs to talk honestly to him about football and college. If he
goes to college as a 12yo he will RUIN his chances of playing college
football. NCAA has strict rules about eligibility and how many years anyone can play.
At 12 he isn't going to be able to make a college team, no matter how
physically advanced he is. He hasn't had enough years of building skills to be
competitive.
Deborah in IL