marsaili

Hiya Gals!

Ok, we've been out of school for 3 months and the charter school for 2
months now. I've been letting the boys (14, 10 and 7) just do whatever they
are interested in doing, when they want to do it. We've torn down the chore
chart and I just made a chart that says if anyone feels like doing this or
this it's worth $.50 or whatever, to give them an opportunity if they are
interested to earn some allowance (and help me with some of the housework)
If it gets done, great! If not, oh well. I am struggling with not saying
no. I am struggling with letting go of expectations and rules. I am doing
much better and I am way more laid back then I was at first but it's REALLY
hard to let go of conventional parentingl stuff!!! In the time that I've
eased up on rules and stuff, their rooms have become disaster zones (with
half of my dishes missing in them), they are almost constantly in front of
the tv or the computer, rarely going outside to play unless I keep strongly
suggesting it (which I shouldn't be doing) They have become rude and they
expect to get what they want when they want it. My 10 year old thinks he
can just say whatever he wants to me and he's been hitting his brother (the
7 year old). The 14 year old has been instigating a lot of fights between
the 2 younger boys. They don't bathe, and they get FILTHY!!! They have
become lazy and sullen, they stay up all night and sleep half the day. This
is not how I pictured unschooling to be---I know there is to be an
adjustment period and a deschooling period--for all of us, but it's getting
so bad that at times that I just want to put them back into school so I can
have a moments peace! I think the thing that bothers me the most is the
fact that they are all becoming very rude and mean. Is this normal??? It's
as if they see that mom is backing off and they are just testing to see how
far they can go before they get me to say no or become angry. It's also as
if they WANT limits and rules and are causing anarchy to get them back. I
try not to react, or if I do react I just say--thats not nice, why would you
need to talk to me like that??? It's like they don't care. They weren't
like this when every minute of their lives were structured and bogged down
with rules and expectations. Please. tell me this is normal and will
pass---if it isn't/doesn't I'm afraid we won't make it as an unschooling
family!!! Oh, and I'm not so worried about the TV/video games and stuff, I
expected that---it's more their attitudes, fighting and rudeness that I am
worried about everyday.

Leslie:-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Melissa

Sounds normal to me, what's the rule? a month at least for every year
in school. So your 14 yo might just well need a full year of
deschooling. That's if he had no preschool! We faced (and still do) a
lot of testing just to see if I'm serious. And part of it was a
reflection of what they got at school and perhaps internalizing some
of the stuff from me.
Ya know, give it time. I wouldn't appreciate calling me names or
hitting people. Maybe someone else can give more advice on that,
since mine are young enough they aren't offended by me saying that we
don't hurt people, Maybe Sandra Dodd's dot com about fighting? You
can only hit if you tried words first.
Also take a look at how you are responding to them, is it with
exasperation in your voice? Anger, frustration? Martyrdom? All that
will affect how they will act because they know.

Hope this is coming out right, I'm in such a hurry but I'd hate for
you to give up so early.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Apr 29, 2006, at 2:38 PM, marsaili wrote:

> Hiya Gals!
>
> Ok, we've been out of school for 3 months and the charter school for 2
> months now. I've been letting the boys (14, 10 and 7) just do
> whatever they
> are interested in doing, when they want to do it. We've torn down
> the chore
> chart and I just made a chart that says if anyone feels like doing
> this or
> this it's worth $.50 or whatever, to give them an opportunity if
> they are
> interested to earn some allowance (and help me with some of the
> housework)
> If it gets done, great! If not, oh well. I am struggling with not
> saying
> no. I am struggling with letting go of expectations and rules. I
> am doing
> much better and I am way more laid back then I was at first but
> it's REALLY
> hard to let go of conventional parentingl stuff!!! In the time
> that I've
> eased up on rules and stuff, their rooms have become disaster zones
> (with
> half of my dishes missing in them), they are almost constantly in
> front of
> the tv or the computer, rarely going outside to play unless I keep
> strongly
> suggesting it (which I shouldn't be doing) They have become rude
> and they
> expect to get what they want when they want it. My 10 year old
> thinks he
> can just say whatever he wants to me and he's been hitting his
> brother (the
> 7 year old). The 14 year old has been instigating a lot of fights
> between
> the 2 younger boys. They don't bathe, and they get FILTHY!!! They
> have
> become lazy and sullen, they stay up all night and sleep half the
> day. This
> is not how I pictured unschooling to be---I know there is to be an
> adjustment period and a deschooling period--for all of us, but it's
> getting
> so bad that at times that I just want to put them back into school
> so I can
> have a moments peace! I think the thing that bothers me the most
> is the
> fact that they are all becoming very rude and mean. Is this
> normal??? It's
> as if they see that mom is backing off and they are just testing to
> see how
> far they can go before they get me to say no or become angry. It's
> also as
> if they WANT limits and rules and are causing anarchy to get them
> back. I
> try not to react, or if I do react I just say--thats not nice, why
> would you
> need to talk to me like that??? It's like they don't care. They
> weren't
> like this when every minute of their lives were structured and
> bogged down
> with rules and expectations. Please. tell me this is normal and will
> pass---if it isn't/doesn't I'm afraid we won't make it as an
> unschooling
> family!!! Oh, and I'm not so worried about the TV/video games and
> stuff, I
> expected that---it's more their attitudes, fighting and rudeness
> that I am
> worried about everyday.
>
> Leslie:-)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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>
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>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 29, 2006, at 3:38 PM, marsaili wrote:

> they are almost constantly in front of
> the tv or the computer, rarely going outside to play unless I keep
> strongly
> suggesting it (which I shouldn't be doing)

If they've been limited, that's perfectly normal. Whenever anything
is limited people gorge when they get it. They gorge until they
"catch up". They gorge until they're certain the limits won't return.

> In the time that I've
> eased up on rules and stuff, their rooms have become disaster zones
> (with
> half of my dishes missing in them), They have become rude and they
> expect to get what they want when they want it. ....

I know I've been guilty of this but it's confusing when people
explain why it's good to drop rules but don't add "Don't do it all
at once!"

The goal is to live by principles. An easier method of getting to
principles from rules is to ask yourself "Why not?" and say yes more
rather than, as you found out, basically saying they can do whatever
they want.

Your boys' reactions are why people say kids need strict limits! ;-)
When limited kids are given no limits they do tend to go wild! But
kids who've had no arbitrary limits all along have no more reason to
go wild than (reasonable) adults do.

> It's
> as if they see that mom is backing off and they are just testing to
> see how
> far they can go before they get me to say no or become angry.

I'd say yes, that's what they're doing. It's a reaction to being
limited. It's a reaction to having the limits disappear all of a sudden.

> It's also as
> if they WANT limits and rules and are causing anarchy to get them
> back.

Yes and no. They aren't used to making decisions for themselves. It's
scary and feels like you're saying "Whatever. I don't care what you do."

They may feel like they want the stability of the limits and rules
but what they really want is stability. Since their *only experience*
is rules and no rules, they're going to think at least the stability
of rules feels good. If you'd only experienced rotten fruit and
unripe fruit, you might think unripe was better. But that's not the
only two choices.

And fortunately rules and no rules aren't the only choices! :-)

> I
> try not to react, or if I do react I just say--thats not nice, why
> would you
> need to talk to me like that???

That statement and question puts them in control. They're feeling
upset so maybe their goal *is* to be not nice! It's natural to be
irritable to others when we feel irritable. And it doesn't matter why
they're feeling like they need to treat you like that.

Give them information. Stand up for yourself but then move onto
meeting their needs. Say in an informational tone, "I don't like to
be treated that way, now what is it you want," or, "I can't
understand you when you're screaming at me."

Tell them up front this isn't working and you want to find a way to
help this work for everyone.

Having all the dishes disappear is a real life limitation. Think
about it as a contract. They can eat in their rooms *if* they bring
their dishes back. It's not a rule to be enforced. It's an agreement.
You can bring food to them, but then make it your own responsibility
to go get the dishes. If they take food to their rooms and can't
remember to bring their dishes back, then they need to eat in the
kitchen. Unlike a mom-rule it's always open to them trying to live up
to the contract if they want to try again.

It might be hard to see how that's different than a rule that says
"You can but you broke the rule and now you can't.". It isn't a
punishment for breaking rules. But it is like the agreements we have
in society: If you pay for things *then* you can take them from the
store; *if* you pass the driver's test *then* you can drive; *if* you
behave in socially acceptable ways *then* you can stay in the
restaurant.

It might be hard to see how it's different than bribery. "If you do
your homework, then you can have an hour of TV." That's using our
power to make someone do what we want in exchange for something they
want. The two aren't connected. But behaving well in a restaurant
*is* connected with the privilege of eating there.

Sandra Dodd has some good stuff about fighting and peace (and lots of
other topics too) at:

http://sandradodd.com/peace/fighting

I saved some of her posts about "if-then" contracts. They're at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/

Over on the right, under Respect is "If-then contracts"

Joyce
Answers to common unschooling questions:
http://home.earthlink.net/~fetteroll/rejoycing/
Blog of writing prompts for speculative fiction writers:
http://dragonwritingprompts.blogsome.com/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

freepsgal

Leslie wrote:
> ...their rooms have become disaster zones (with half of my dishes
> missing in them)...

First, they aren't *your* dishes only because everyone is using
them, right? The kids need to understand that if they don't return
the dishes, there will eventually be nothing left in the kitchen to
eat on. Returning dishes to the kitchen should be considered a
house courtesy, not necessarily a rule. I do understand though. My
oldest dd's room is downstairs (split-level home) and her room is a
hang-out place for all 3 of my children. I never have need to go
down there, but occasionally I carry something down only to find
lots of dishes and trash around. I immediately round up the younger
kids (who are the only ones home during the week so they can't blame
big sister) and ask them to please help me carry these things
upstairs. I'll laugh and say something like 'What a mess! Can you
imagine Claire coming home this weekend to this room? Are you
trying to freak her out??' The kids laugh with me and then help me
clean up. Nobody gets angry. We're working as a team so the job
gets done quickly.

As for their rooms, I don't know how you used to keep order in their
rooms before unschooling but my experience with my children is that
a very messy room is so overwhelming to clean that they simply don't
know where to start. I help my kids clean their rooms, usually
doing the majority of the work for my son. First, I tell them I
want to help clean their rooms that day and when they hit a stopping
point in their playing, to let me know so I can start. I carry in a
trash bag and then give simple directions. In my son's room, I
always start with picking up the books that are laying everywhere.
I actually say it out loud, "Let's start by gathering all the books
and putting them on the shelf." My son is happy to do this because
it's simple and easy. In my daughter's room however, we start with
picking up all the dirty clothes laying everywhere, then move to the
cups that have rolled underneath her bed. *laugh*

I have confidence that my children will be able to do what they need
to do when they need to do it. In the meantime, I'm happy to be a
help. Oh, the last time I helped my son clean his room, he found a
funky hip-hop radio station that we listened to while we worked. It
was fun!

I haven't been radical unschooling very long though we've been sort
of unschooly in our parenting approach all along. However, I don't
tolerate rudeness just for the sake of being mean. I completely
understand that we all get into bad moods sometimes, but when my
kids start saying mean things to me, I just get down on their level
and tell them something like this, "I understand you are feeling
angry or frustrated inside, but I don't deserve to be your verbal
punching bag. How can I help you feel better?" I don't let them
treat each other disrespectfully either. If I hear someone using a
really ugly tone, I redirect and try to smooth over the situation.
For my son, that usually means that his sister has pushed all his
buttons and he just needs to be alone but she won't let him alone.
He's an introvert and needs to have time alone to recharge. My
daughter is an extrovert, so even 'bad' attention is energetic for
her. She does that on purpose because she wants to 'be' with
someone and when he's not in the mood to interact, he'll tell her to
let him alone in his room for a while. I've been trying to help her
understand that when he asks to be alone, he really means it and she
needs to come and find me when she needs to be with someone and he
isn't available.

I don't want my children to think they can do anything they want
anytime they want because that's not realistic. We live in a
society that has certain limitations and expectations and allowing
them to believe they are above those 'rules' isn't going to help
them out in the long run. For example, it's just NOT acceptable to
hit someone. The only exception is in defense, and it's only to get
away, not to beat someone to a pulp. We're black belts so we've
learned that in martial arts. If my children get physical, I get
involved immediately to diffuse the situation. IF they have reached
that point, then letting them work it out on their own obviously
isn't working. Adults can be arrested for harrassment or assault
and battery. We simply must find better coping techniques than
resorting to physical violence. Why is your older son hitting your
younger son? Is it to force the younger son to give in to
something? Like letting the older son play a certain video game, or
watch a certain tv show? Is he just bored so he's trying to find
stimulation? Find out exactly WHY the older one is hitting and then
help him find a better way to get what he wants than resorting to
the 'I'm bigger and/or older and am more important.'

Anyway, I hope some of this helps a little. I haven't been in your
shoes so my advice might not be worth much at all. :)

Beth M.

marsaili

On Apr 29, 2006, at 3:38 PM, marsaili wrote:

> > they are almost constantly in front of
> > the tv or the computer, rarely going outside to play unless I keep
> > strongly
> > suggesting it (which I shouldn't be doing)

>> If they've been limited, that's perfectly normal. Whenever anything
is limited people gorge when they get it. They gorge until they
"catch up". They gorge until they're certain the limits won't return. <<

Actually, before we decided to unschool, they really weren't limited all
that much except for
the fact that they had to get up for school the next day so games and TV had
to go off. I've tried
to limit them in the past---an hour of TV a day, an hour of video games---it
never worked.

> In the time that I've
> eased up on rules and stuff, their rooms have become disaster zones
> (with
> half of my dishes missing in them), They have become rude and they
> expect to get what they want when they want it. ....

I know I've been guilty of this but it's confusing when people
explain why it's good to drop rules but don't add "Don't do it all
at once!"

The goal is to live by principles. An easier method of getting to
principles from rules is to ask yourself "Why not?" and say yes more
rather than, as you found out, basically saying they can do whatever
they want.

Your boys' reactions are why people say kids need strict limits! ;-)
When limited kids are given no limits they do tend to go wild! But
kids who've had no arbitrary limits all along have no more reason to
go wild than (reasonable) adults do.

Actually, this is where I've had a hard time letting go of saying no. I've
eased up considerably
but I've had a hard time just letting things be (at times) I do still say no
once in a while, mostly
when it involves my old parental ideas of too much of something (too much
snacks, for one) or
sitting back and letting them stay up all night---I've had a hard time with
that---basically, I tell them
it's time to go to bed--but they can keep the tv on if they are quiet---and
as soon as they think I am asleep
they get up and play---which I haven't stopped them unless they get too loud
or rowdy. I guess the problem
is that they think they are getting away with something, rather than knowing
that I am allowing it by not interfering.
If they know that I am (relatively) ok with it, maybe it wouldn't be that
big a deal anymore? I would prefer that they sleep at
night, however--but that is just my hangup I have to get over.

. > It's
> > as if they see that mom is backing off and they are just testing to
> > see how
> > far they can go before they get me to say no or become angry.

>> I'd say yes, that's what they're doing. It's a reaction to being
>> limited. It's a reaction to having the limits disappear all of a sudden.


They haven't all totally disappeared at once---but I am considerably more
laid back about
many things. I've basically taken my "pick your battles" issues---tv, video
games, sleep---and
relaxed my expectations on them greatly.

> It's also as
> if they WANT limits and rules and are causing anarchy to get them
> back.

>>> and no. They aren't used to making decisions for themselves. It's
scary and feels like you're saying "Whatever. I don't care what you do."

They may feel like they want the stability of the limits and rules
but what they really want is stability. Since their *only experience*
is rules and no rules, they're going to think at least the stability
of rules feels good. If you'd only experienced rotten fruit and
unripe fruit, you might think unripe was better. But that's not the
only two choices.

And fortunately rules and no rules aren't the only choices! :-)<<<<<<

One day my 7 year old was upset about a clay figure he had made- -he had
accidentally stepped
on it and ruined it. He was nearly crying and I was comforting him and he
said he wished he could swear.
I told him---go ahead. So, he looked at me with big eyes, astounded that I
would say it's ok and with a big grin said "shit!"
I laughed and asked him if he felt better--he said yes. I told him that I
would prefer he not swear---just like he prefers that I don't
swear---but if he felt the need to do so, then come and talk to me. Now,
everyone in a while, he'll come up to me and say--mom I need to swear
and I'll talk to him about what happened--after we talk about it and he gets
it out I'll ask if he still feels the need to swear, sometimes
he does and sometimes he doesn't. I guess that shows that somethings are
working!!??

> I
> try not to react, or if I do react I just say--thats not nice, why
> would you
> need to talk to me like that???

>>>>> That statement and question puts them in control. They're feeling
upset so maybe their goal *is* to be not nice! It's natural to be
irritable to others when we feel irritable. And it doesn't matter why
they're feeling like they need to treat you like that. <<<<<<

Yes, you are absolutely right, I didn't even look at it that way. I guess I
was thinking
I was taking a more "gentle" approach but instead I was making myself a
victim--which
is certainly the wrong approach to take. I can be firm without being harsh
and commanding.

>>>>>> Give them information. Stand up for yourself but then move onto
meeting their needs. Say in an informational tone, "I don't like to
be treated that way, now what is it you want," or, "I can't
understand you when you're screaming at me."

Tell them up front this isn't working and you want to find a way to
help this work for everyone. <<<<<<<

I guess my problem is that I've been taking this upon myself to do without
including the boys
in the plan. Instead of communicating that this is a "life" change we are
doing for the betterment
of everyone, I've just tried to change my behavior and approaches to things
without including them
in the plans. In order for this to work, everyone needs to be part of the
plan.

>>>> Having all the dishes disappear is a real life limitation. Think
about it as a contract. They can eat in their rooms *if* they bring
their dishes back. It's not a rule to be enforced. It's an agreement.
You can bring food to them, but then make it your own responsibility
to go get the dishes. If they take food to their rooms and can't
remember to bring their dishes back, then they need to eat in the
kitchen. Unlike a mom-rule it's always open to them trying to live up
to the contract if they want to try again. <<<<<

This is really more of an issue with the 14 year old. The younger boys will
ask, can we eat upstairs and
I'll say yes, as long as you bring your dishes down, which they generally
do---sometimes they need a
gentle reminder. The 14 year old doesn't ask, which is fine, but when I'm
doing the dishes and notice that 3 of
my bowls are missing and 5 glasses, I'll ask him to get the stuff out of his
room and he'll bring me one of each
and tell me that's all there is. I know the stuff isn't anywhere else, so
I'll ask him one more time to check and he'll
get mad and say there are no more dishes in his room. From that point I
usually either try to reason with him (I have 6 bowls, and
3 are missing and no one else has them so maybe they are in your room but
you missed them?) he then gets angry and says
I never believe him---which is true because he does lie about it. Finally,
I had enough the other day, after calling for dishes, everyone
brought stuff down from their rooms. I knew he had a lot more in his room
than he brought down so I nicely asked him to go check again.
He refused so I asked if I could go look, maybe a fresh set of eyes would
help. He said FINE, but then said to me that I would be
sorry when I saw that there was nothing in there and didn't believe him. I
went in his room, and I found all the dishes I was missing
and then some! The real problem is, they weren't hidden or shoved under
stuff that would make it hard for him to find, they were all
right out in the open, he couldn't miss them. So, why bring down some and
say there is no more when he easily could have just
brought down all and avoided all of this. I just grabbed everything and
took it all downstairs and stated again, if you can't bring down the
dishes when you are done, they don't eat in your room. I don't have a
problem with you eating up there, as long as I get the stuff back
so I can wash it. I let it go from there.

>>>> It might be hard to see how that's different than a rule that says
"You can but you broke the rule and now you can't.". It isn't a
punishment for breaking rules. But it is like the agreements we have
in society: If you pay for things *then* you can take them from the
store; *if* you pass the driver's test *then* you can drive; *if* you
behave in socially acceptable ways *then* you can stay in the
restaurant.

It might be hard to see how it's different than bribery. "If you do
your homework, then you can have an hour of TV." That's using our
power to make someone do what we want in exchange for something they
want. The two aren't connected. But behaving well in a restaurant
*is* connected with the privilege of eating there <<<<<<<

I'll have to talk to the boys about this, this is a good approach.

Thanks for all your advice, I appreciate it! I know I still have a lot to
work on
myself!

Leslie:-)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

--- In [email protected], "marsaili" <marsaili@...>
wrote:

>
> I know I've been guilty of this but it's confusing when people
> explain why it's good to drop rules but don't add "Don't do it
all
> at once!"

This strikes me as more or less what my mom did, and what I have
always tried to emulate. I know, it will not be the same as what
you are saying, but she always adapted rules, how she treated us,
and so on, as we grew. What's perfectly reasonable to say to a 2 yr
old would be absurd to a 10 yr old. (I distinctly remember telling
my son, when he was 2, "No, we don't put peanut butter in the air
vent." I sorta doubt it would come up now....)

Linda

susan throssell

I would just like to say something about this group.

I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when I say that I
have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive, it has
assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a big shift in
our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.

Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites that have
given me advice and encouragement and information when I have needed it.

I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've managed to find
alot of information for myself.

I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone for offering
your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before last week
and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.

Thank you.

Susan

[email protected]

Susan,

Thank you.

I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,
really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the same
thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>

But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is. Because
it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.

Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it worth it. I *know* the list
is needed. I know because I was where you (and others) are now at one
time. Several people gave and gave and gave of themselves to help me
and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are now: confident and
unwavering.

Ren told me to chill out and let it die---aGAIN! <g> She knows and *I*
know it happens regularly on a list that makes people uncomfortable
with their previous and long-held beliefs. It's reallly not easy.
Simple, but not easy.

I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep it that way.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

-----Original Message-----
From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>

I would just like to say something about this group.

I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when I say
that I
have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive, it
has
assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a big
shift in
our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.

Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites that
have
given me advice and encouragement and information when I have needed
it.

I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've managed
to find
alot of information for myself.

I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone for
offering
your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before last
week
and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.

Thank you.

Susan

Joanne

Please don't shut down Kelly. I'll volunteer as hitman if you want.
I may be short but I'm Sicilan and I'm a Brooklyn girl...I'll break
the kneecaps of the next person who attacks this list!
Fugedaboudit! Anyone who has a problem with that, come see me...Jo
Knuckles (aka The Godmother) and I'll straighten you out...Brooklyn
style.

LOL!!
Seriously....I was sorry to see unschooling.com close and I would
hate for this place to leave. :-(

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com




--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can
be
> exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a
problem,
> really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
> sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the
same
> thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
> defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
> neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
>
> But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
> VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is.
Because
> it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.
>
> Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it worth it. I *know* the
list
> is needed. I know because I was where you (and others) are now at
one
> time. Several people gave and gave and gave of themselves to help
me
> and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are now: confident and
> unwavering.
>
> Ren told me to chill out and let it die---aGAIN! <g> She knows
and *I*
> know it happens regularly on a list that makes people
uncomfortable
> with their previous and long-held beliefs. It's reallly not easy.
> Simple, but not easy.
>
> I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep it that way.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> “Learn as if you were going to live forever.
> Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>
>
> I would just like to say something about this group.
>
> I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when
I say
> that I
> have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive,
it
> has
> assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a
big
> shift in
> our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.
>
> Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites
that
> have
> given me advice and encouragement and information when I have
needed
> it.
>
> I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've
managed
> to find
> alot of information for myself.
>
> I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone
for
> offering
> your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before
last
> week
> and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Susan
>

April Morris

Oh goodness. Please don't stop writing! Any of you!!! I'm not a natural
writer, I'm a talker....so I don't reply much on these lists. It takes me
quite a while to get my thoughts in an order that makes sense. But I read a
LOT and I share a lot of the wisdom I get from here with people I meet in
real life. I can live it (at long last, I was a slow learner) and I can
share about unschooling with those I meet and I can answer a lot of
questions because of what I read here. The encouragement I get from this
list and from others helps me to share what I've discovered with those
around me. My sphere of influence may be smaller but I run into a lot of
people that would never dream of joining these lists.....so THANK YOU! You
are all appreciated. I know how much time and energy it can take.

--
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey


On 5/14/06, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
> exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,
> really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
> sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the same
> thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
> defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
> neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
>
> But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
> VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is. Because
> it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.
>
> Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it worth it. I *know* the list
> is needed. I know because I was where you (and others) are now at one
> time. Several people gave and gave and gave of themselves to help me
> and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are now: confident and
> unwavering.
>
> Ren told me to chill out and let it die---aGAIN! <g> She knows and *I*
> know it happens regularly on a list that makes people uncomfortable
> with their previous and long-held beliefs. It's reallly not easy.
> Simple, but not easy.
>
> I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep it that way.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> "Learn as if you were going to live forever.
> Live as if you were going to die tomorrow." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>
>
> I would just like to say something about this group.
>
> I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when I say
> that I
> have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive, it
> has
> assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a big
> shift in
> our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.
>
> Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites that
> have
> given me advice and encouragement and information when I have needed
> it.
>
> I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've managed
> to find
> alot of information for myself.
>
> I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone for
> offering
> your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before last
> week
> and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Susan
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

camden

Oh I second that. Please don't shut down !

I'm not sure if Kelly remembers when I first came to this list but I was
very defensive of everything. It was through reading, reading, reading and
more reading that I have come to the point I am in my life. Her answers,
along with Ren, Deb, Rue,Pam, Joyce and others helped me question things I
really needed to question & change.

I still read here everyday & find answers to questions I didnt' even think I
had ;) I don't know when I'll get to the "perfect" place but our family
has grown & changed thanks to the writings here & else where.

I love the fact you all volunteer your time to help out & guide others on
their journey. I often wonder how you all have time to answer the same
questions time after time.

A note to Joanne -Oh Godmother, I'll be your get away driver, if you need
one ;).

Carol

Marie Pressman

Please don't do that. I am humbled by your wisdom even though I am on the fence about 'unschooling'. Do not give these posts that kind of power. I think you need to politely cut them loose sooner than later so that you remain true to your mission and service those seeking advise without some other kind of agenda. You don't need to explain yourselves. I think it is very obvious when a post has more issues than what's presented when people get defensive. We all must take what we like, leave the rest and move on. More often than not I read your responses and wonder why we all don't live this way. It's all that baggage and conditioning we're carrying around that gets in the way.

--Marie

[Marie Pressman]


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of kbcdlovejo@...
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 5:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] The group


Susan,

Thank you.

I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

D Smith

I want to say I am Thankful for this group. I came
here while in thearpy. One of my goals was to be a
mother who didn't hit her child. And I was searching
for a better way. Because hitting didn't work with me.
I'd be more deffiant for it. Secondly it never worked
with my own son, because he'd laugh and think it was a
game. Which only made me more mad. Plus, I'd be
hurting (I'm usually brought to tears from spanking).
I think it brings up a lot of memories I don't want to
remember. I need this group to continue my journey. I
understand if you want to shut it down, though. I
just had to tell you how much you helped me to think,
and I know how easy that sounds, but I couldn't. I'd
be caught up in the moment of anger, for whatever
really dumb reason, and I'd lash out at my child.
Thank you.

Danie

PS, my husband is finally getting it too.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 5/14/06, kbcdlovejo@... <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
>
> But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
> VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is. Because
> it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.


This list has served as a wonderful touchstone for me! I remember when I
first came here and started posing all my questions and concerns and how no
one would give me an answer but kept "challenging" me, I almost left. But
then I started thinking of those questions the next time a situtation would
arise. I would "hear" the voices of Deb, Ren, Kelly and Pam. I could see
their words and it made me question myself and see things from a different
point of view.

This is also my contact point for hearing all about what the Allen family is
up to since they moved away from here. I can't wait to share the new
magazine article with the kids! I would be saddened to see this list
disappear because of a few antagonistic people.







--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>Fugedaboudit!>>

ROFLMAO! Thanks for the smile Knuckles. :o) I'm a Lawn Guyland girl myself. I think I'll go watch the Sopranos now.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Joanne" <billyandjoanne@...>

Joanne

--- In [email protected], "camden" <ccoutlaw@...>
wrote:

>>>>A note to Joanne -Oh Godmother, I'll be your get away driver,
if you need one ;).>>>>>

*in her best godfather voice*
You have pleased me with your offer. I always remember loyalty.

Kelly!! You can't shut down now...we have the Unschooling Mafia
starting. LOL!!

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com




>
> Oh I second that. Please don't shut down !
>
> I'm not sure if Kelly remembers when I first came to this list but
I was
> very defensive of everything. It was through reading, reading,
reading and
> more reading that I have come to the point I am in my life. Her
answers,
> along with Ren, Deb, Rue,Pam, Joyce and others helped me question
things I
> really needed to question & change.
>
> I still read here everyday & find answers to questions I didnt'
even think I
> had ;) I don't know when I'll get to the "perfect" place but our
family
> has grown & changed thanks to the writings here & else where.
>
> I love the fact you all volunteer your time to help out & guide
others on
> their journey. I often wonder how you all have time to answer the
same
> questions time after time.
>
> A note to Joanne -Oh Godmother, I'll be your get away driver, if
you need
> one ;).
>
> Carol
>

Joanne

Hey neighbor! I buried a few bodies....um, er...I mean..I knew some
people on the Island. I can't talk about it though...or I'd have to
kill youse.

hee-hee

~ Joanne ~
Mom to Jacqueline (7), Shawna (10) & Cimion (13)
Adopted into our hearts October 30, 2003
http://anunschoolinglife.blogspot.com/
http://foreverparents.com






--- In [email protected], zenmomma@... wrote:
>
> >>Fugedaboudit!>>
>
> ROFLMAO! Thanks for the smile Knuckles. :o) I'm a Lawn Guyland
girl myself. I think I'll go watch the Sopranos now.
>
> --
> ~Mary
> http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
>
> "The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
> green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling
truly
> alive."
> ~Thich Nhat Hanh
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Joanne" <billyandjoanne@...>
>

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

Please don't ever think that this list isn't needed! I have gotten so much
out of it even though at times I've been uncomfortable because I've had to
let go of those long held beliefs (even though I didn't believe them anyway.
. they tend to get ingrained after living them all your life).



~*~*~
Lesa
LIFE Academy
http://lifeacademy.homeschooljournal.net
http://qtpiecraftsandthings.etsy.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb

--- In [email protected], "trektheory"
<trektheory@...> wrote:
>
> This strikes me as more or less what my mom did, and what I have
> always tried to emulate. I know, it will not be the same as what
> you are saying, but she always adapted rules, how she treated us,
> and so on, as we grew. What's perfectly reasonable to say to a 2 yr
> old would be absurd to a 10 yr old. (I distinctly remember telling
> my son, when he was 2, "No, we don't put peanut butter in the air
> vent." I sorta doubt it would come up now....)
>
> Linda
>
Which is precisely why operating off basic principles works well where
rules can be a problem. A principle can adjust to circumstances, ages,
stages, etc where rules have to be changed or broken (kind of like how
civil disobedience works - if a rule/law needs changing and those who
can change it won't then it gets broken until it does get
changed). "be safe" may be a 2 yr old holding hands in a parking lot;
for a 10 yr old, looking both ways TWICE and sticking to crosswalks
may be enough; and so on.
--Deb

Melanie Ilsley

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>Please, Please, Please don't take the list!! I don't post often, I am learning still and really
don't feel like I have a great deal to contribute. But, I do read posts almost daily, and
everytime I find some gem to make me think, or to answer a question. I always leave
feeling better, more confident about our journey and more capable. So thank you both for
having this group, and thank everyone who posts, because you ask the questions I need
answers to, and give answers to questions I didn't even know I had.

Melanie Ilsley in Vt
> Susan,
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
> exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,
> really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
> sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the same
> thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
> defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
> neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
>
> But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
> VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is. Because
> it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.
>
> Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it worth it. I *know* the list
> is needed. I know because I was where you (and others) are now at one
> time. Several people gave and gave and gave of themselves to help me
> and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are now: confident and
> unwavering.
>
> Ren told me to chill out and let it die---aGAIN! <g> She knows and *I*
> know it happens regularly on a list that makes people uncomfortable
> with their previous and long-held beliefs. It's reallly not easy.
> Simple, but not easy.
>
> I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep it that way.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> “Learn as if you were going to live forever.
> Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.� ~ Mahatma Gandhi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>
>
> I would just like to say something about this group.
>
> I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when I say
> that I
> have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive, it
> has
> assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a big
> shift in
> our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.
>
> Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites that
> have
> given me advice and encouragement and information when I have needed
> it.
>
> I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've managed
> to find
> alot of information for myself.
>
> I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone for
> offering
> your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before last
> week
> and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Susan
>

Stephanie Jackson

Ditto.

--- Melanie Ilsley <us5@...> wrote:

> --- In [email protected],
> kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
> >Please, Please, Please don't take the list!!
> I don't post often, I am learning still and
> really
> don't feel like I have a great deal to
> contribute. But, I do read posts almost daily,
> and
> everytime I find some gem to make me think, or
> to answer a question. I always leave
> feeling better, more confident about our
> journey and more capable. So thank you both
> for
> having this group, and thank everyone who
> posts, because you ask the questions I need
> answers to, and give answers to questions I
> didn't even know I had.
>
> Melanie Ilsley in Vt
> > Susan,
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > I was just talking to Ren about shutting
> down the list. It can be
> > exhausting answering the same questions---but
> that's not a problem,
> > really. We've gotten pretty good at it and
> can almost do it in our
> > sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to
> *us* when we put the same
> > thoughts into words over and over. That also
> makes it easier to
> > defend/explain when we have to deal with
> in-laws, extended family,
> > neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
> >
> > But when people want to attack the
> list---THAT THEY JOINED
> > VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The
> list IS what it is. Because
> > it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and
> I) want it to be.
> >
> > Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it
> worth it. I *know* the list
> > is needed. I know because I was where you
> (and others) are now at one
> > time. Several people gave and gave and gave
> of themselves to help me
> > and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are
> now: confident and
> > unwavering.
> >
> > Ren told me to chill out and let it
> die---aGAIN! <g> She knows and *I*
> > know it happens regularly on a list that
> makes people uncomfortable
> > with their previous and long-held beliefs.
> It's reallly not easy.
> > Simple, but not easy.
> >
> > I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep
> it that way.
> >
> > ~Kelly
> >
> > Kelly Lovejoy
> > Conference Coordinator
> > Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> > http://liveandlearnconference.org
> >
> > “Learn as if you were going to live
> forever.
> > Live as if you were going to die
> tomorrow.� ~ Mahatma Gandhi
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>
> >
> > I would just like to say something about
> this group.
> >
> > I joined a very short while ago and think I
> speak for many when I say
> > that I
> > have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has
> helped our family thrive, it
> > has
> > assisted me to become a much more relaxed
> mum, resulting in a big
> > shift in
> > our family and a breakthrough today, with my
> husband.
> >
> > Without this group I wouldnt have found
> links to many websites that
> > have
> > given me advice and encouragement and
> information when I have needed
> > it.
> >
> > I havnt really posted much and probabally
> wont, because I've managed
> > to find
> > alot of information for myself.
> >
> > I enjoy reading the posts and want to say
> thank you to everyone for
> > offering
> > your time. It was something I hadnt really
> thought about before last
> > week
> > and I kind of took all you more experienced
> lot for granted.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Susan
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>


Stephanie Jackson, Mommie to Clara Rhyse and Bella Pearl

We don't inherit the Earth from our parents.
We borrow it from our children.












__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Mother Earth (Tyra)

Kelly and Ren and all others who have worked so hard to help so many,

I am Tyra of TN, who has been no mail for a while. I got tanked up and had to step away to kind of find my own unschooling flow. I have come back to get tanked up again and find it interesting that there is another thread about how people are feeling about how things are said in this group. When I first joined I remembering questioning the very same thing although I find it hard to get offended especially when I have asked for advice. However, this list is needed and I would truly be struggling if it were not for all the people in this group who have helped me and mine. It has been reiterated time and time again through this thread that it is all voluntary. I have come to learn that passion is a good thing especially when it comes to something that is life transforming for the better. I guess my word for many of you would be passionate. How can you really make something happen if there is no passion? I don't think I would believe anything you all were saying if you were not passionate about unschooling and especially RU. The other way that I describe you all is Child Advocates. I have no problems with people who are advocating for a better life for children. The world is a better place because of people like you. I always think that my descendants may not know my name but they will have my love. The love that I give to my children by choosing to live this lifestyle is eternal. And it is this eternal love that will help more children be raised in the same way.

I say all of this to make sure that I give back at least a little bit that I have been given from those of you from this group. I say all of this to give back to you because I know that the giving is often too one sided.

Again, thank you all.

Namaste
Tyra
Mother to Khalfani 5.5 yrs and Kamau almost 3 yrs



> Susan,
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
> exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,
> really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
> sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the same
> thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
> defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
> neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ren Allen

~I say all of this to make sure that I give back at least a little bit
that I have been given from those of you from this group. I say all
of this to give back to you because I know that the giving is often
too one sided.~

Thank you for your heartfelt words Tyra. I'm glad to know the list has
been a positive force for you.:) You made my morning!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Mother Earth (Tyra)

You're welcome, my sistah!

Peace
Tyra
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] The group


~I say all of this to make sure that I give back at least a little bit
that I have been given from those of you from this group. I say all
of this to give back to you because I know that the giving is often
too one sided.~

Thank you for your heartfelt words Tyra. I'm glad to know the list has
been a positive force for you.:) You made my morning!

Ren
learninginfreedom.com






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On May 15, 2006, at 7:14 AM, Mother Earth ((Tyra)) wrote:

> I always think that my descendants may not know my name but they
> will have my love. The love that I give to my children by choosing
> to live this lifestyle is eternal. And it is this eternal love
> that will help more children be raised in the same way.

That gave me chills - and brought tears to my eyes.

I won't be remembered for long, haven't done anything to get into the
history books <G>, but I do know that my own kids will be wonderful
parents to their children and, I think I've helped some other parents
enough that THEIR kids will be much better parents, too. That's a
legacy that makes me very very happy.

Each of us that breaks, or helps others break, a family pattern of
harsh, punitive, or even abusive parenting, is passing a lot of our
love on into the future.

Wow. Thanks for the perspective, Tyra!!

-pam

Unschooling shirts, cups, bumper stickers, bags...
Live Love Learn
UNSCHOOL!
<http://www.cafepress.com/livelovelearn>





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[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Pamela Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>

I think I've helped some other parents
enough that THEIR kids will be much better parents, too. That's a
legacy that makes me very very happy.

-=-=-=-

Good. It should.

Pam was one the ones who changed me into an unschooling mom---as well
as a better parent, better spouse, and better person.

Pam, Joyce, Anne, Mary, and Sandra---powerful unschooling proponents!

-=-=-=-=-

Each of us that breaks, or helps others break, a family pattern of
harsh, punitive, or even abusive parenting, is passing a lot of our
love on into the future.

-=-=-=-

Just thought it should be repeated! <g>


~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

[email protected]

Do you know about Pam's No More Spanking list?

[email protected]

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

“Learn as if you were going to live forever.
Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

-----Original Message-----
From: D Smith <sandshuse@...>

I want to say I am Thankful for this group. I came
here while in thearpy. One of my goals was to be a
mother who didn't hit her child. And I was searching
for a better way. Because hitting didn't work with me.
I'd be more deffiant for it. Secondly it never worked
with my own son, because he'd laugh and think it was a
game. Which only made me more mad. Plus, I'd be
hurting (I'm usually brought to tears from spanking).
I think it brings up a lot of memories I don't want to
remember. I need this group to continue my journey. I
understand if you want to shut it down, though. I
just had to tell you how much you helped me to think,
and I know how easy that sounds, but I couldn't. I'd
be caught up in the moment of anger, for whatever
really dumb reason, and I'd lash out at my child.
Thank you.

katherand2003

Kelly & Ren..

I don't post much here because it's just impossible to keep up with
replies to my posts in all the lists. But I *do* read a lot. Thanks
to so many people on the various RU lists. It's absolutely wonderful.
Interesting helpful useful info and ideas on how to free yourself up
for unschooling and how to free your children up for life. Even if
you can't do unschooling in your own home, you can make a lot of
really lovely changes in how you parent. That's worth so much.

Kathe

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> Thank you.
>
> I was just talking to Ren about shutting down the list. It can be
> exhausting answering the same questions---but that's not a problem,
> really. We've gotten pretty good at it and can almost do it in our
> sleep---PLUS it solidifies unschooling to *us* when we put the same
> thoughts into words over and over. That also makes it easier to
> defend/explain when we have to deal with in-laws, extended family,
> neighbors, strangers, etc. <g>
>
> But when people want to attack the list---THAT THEY JOINED
> VOLUNTARILY---well, that just gets old. The list IS what it is. Because
> it *works* and because it's what we (Ren and I) want it to be.
>
> Posts like yours (and Kristie's) make it worth it. I *know* the list
> is needed. I know because I was where you (and others) are now at one
> time. Several people gave and gave and gave of themselves to help me
> and Ren and Deb and Rue to the point we are now: confident and
> unwavering.
>
> Ren told me to chill out and let it die---aGAIN! <g> She knows and
*I*
> know it happens regularly on a list that makes people uncomfortable
> with their previous and long-held beliefs. It's reallly not easy.
> Simple, but not easy.
>
> I'm glad we're what you need. I hope to keep it that way.
>
> ~Kelly
>
> Kelly Lovejoy
> Conference Coordinator
> Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
> http://liveandlearnconference.org
>
> “Learn as if you were going to live forever.
> Live as if you were going to die tomorrow.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: susan throssell <susanthrossell@...>
>
> I would just like to say something about this group.
>
> I joined a very short while ago and think I speak for many when I say
> that I
> have found it IMMENSELY useful. It has helped our family thrive, it
> has
> assisted me to become a much more relaxed mum, resulting in a big
> shift in
> our family and a breakthrough today, with my husband.
>
> Without this group I wouldnt have found links to many websites that
> have
> given me advice and encouragement and information when I have needed
> it.
>
> I havnt really posted much and probabally wont, because I've managed
> to find
> alot of information for myself.
>
> I enjoy reading the posts and want to say thank you to everyone for
> offering
> your time. It was something I hadnt really thought about before last
> week
> and I kind of took all you more experienced lot for granted.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Susan
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/20/2006 12:27:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
katherand@... writes:
It's absolutely wonderful.
Interesting helpful useful info and ideas on how to free yourself up
for unschooling and how to free your children up for life
Ditto from our entire family. Unschooling is really working well for all of
us and I feel like a better mother and am a much happier person thanks in part
to all I've learned here. My children are remarkably happier and our world
is more peaceful and we are really enjoying each other.

Please keep sharing. You have helped change our lives for the better.

Thanks,
Robin, who hopes to come to the conference. We're working toward making it
happen.


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