[email protected]

>>There are plenty of movies that aren't scary AND aren't Disney! <g>>>

Many, many times we thought that the Disney movies were the scariest ones out there. A parent ALWAYS dies or leaves in order to create dramatic tension in their live action movies. In their animated stuff the violence and intensity can really go over the top. My kids still haven't seen Bambi. Neither one wanted amovie that leads up to the beloved mother dying.

That's why it's a good idea to examine movies and shows as they come up. The name Disney or an animated presentation does not guarantee a happy movie. In that same vein, an adult theme or monster premise is not automatically too intense in every situation. It depends on the child, the situation, the parents, and the movie.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kbcdlovejo@...

Frances Chavez

Hi I just wanted to jump in here on this topic ­ hope no one minds. My mom
always loves to tell me how she took the day off work (as a teacher) to take
me to see Bambi when it came out when I was little (1974/75) not sure if we
were in Mexico or the US then. My father was in Med School in Mexico when I
was born. Anyway we didn¹t last past Bambi¹s Mother being Shot ­ I didn¹t
like it at all. When I was in HS our Church Youth Group had that movie one
night and I still wouldn¹t watch the beginning (I came in When Bambi &
Thumper Meet). It wasn¹t until my DD got the DVD that I actually watched the
beginning and I still don¹t like too, but my girls put it to me this way ­
Bambi¹s Mommy went to heaven so she can now watch him ALL the time and now
he can't get away with NOTHIN¹. LOL Now my girls also have watched the Mummy
& Mummy Returns along with other classic (1940¹s and on) movies and the 3 yo
LOVES them ­ the 9yo likes to watch the How Did They Do That parts of DVDs
or look it up on the net. The 2 yo I am trying to keep her away from her
sisters choices of movies even though she LOVES Zathura and the Thing From
Outer Space
>


Frances
*Blessed SAHM of 3 & Proud LEO Wife*







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy Deby

HI ,

Really needing some answers on this question. My youngest daughter is at the Waldorf school in kindergarten and is finishing the year off there, and then unschooling all 4 children.

Anyways ran into a person I knew and told her what I was planning, and she shared with me that she almost went the unschooloing path but decided against it , and thought Waldorf was a abettor choice.

She then went onto tell me that she met one of the pioneer adult children of ((greenburg?)unschooling and that made her know and realize the area that can create real problems .

I asked what was that, she said when talking to him it was constantly I,
I, I ,me me and was not particularly interested in being of service to anyone else because his whole life was based on his needs.

She then went on to tell me of the antrposophical theorys through Waldorf that a child's ego doesn't develop till later and that all this self lead can create real narcissistic people.

I have to admit I started to deflate a little, and yet I though o.k. this is good shes only mirroring your own fear.

She went on to say that she new her son well enough to know that all he ever would have done was spent his time on a computer and would have never had the opportunity o move his body and experience art the way Waldorf had taught him.

I need some feedback my own doubts starting coming in, and I feel a little lost???

She said meeting this man that could not think much beyond himself and very self absorbed, it actually turnded her off completly from Unschooling. Until then she thought it was great.
Shes works with children as a Art therapist and has been in many differnt learning enviorements and communties of schooling
She could biase as well and I wasnt about to defend my point, but I doint think I had one since Im new to all this, other than my intuition and heart which has always lead , but I have tended to leave out discerment??

Thanks ...................Sandy
zenmomma@... wrote:
>>There are plenty of movies that aren't scary AND aren't Disney! <g>>>

Many, many times we thought that the Disney movies were the scariest ones out there. A parent ALWAYS dies or leaves in order to create dramatic tension in their live action movies. In their animated stuff the violence and intensity can really go over the top. My kids still haven't seen Bambi. Neither one wanted amovie that leads up to the beloved mother dying.

That's why it's a good idea to examine movies and shows as they come up. The name Disney or an animated presentation does not guarantee a happy movie. In that same vein, an adult theme or monster premise is not automatically too intense in every situation. It depends on the child, the situation, the parents, and the movie.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kbcdlovejo@...




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

aplan4life

--- In [email protected], Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>
wrote:
> She then went onto tell me that she met one of the pioneer adult
children of ((greenburg?)unschooling and that made her know and
realize the area that can create real problems .

Hi Sandy, I'm Sandy :-) The first thing that I noticed here is the
word "one". She met "one" person. Now say it was two or three or
four, five 10, heck even 1000! Isn't it probably safe to say that
there are 'me, me, me' types in every part of society...including
Waldorf kids?

> She said meeting this man that could not think much beyond
himself and very self absorbed, it actually turnded her off completly
from Unschooling.

I *know* what she means, however, who is she to say that being
self-absorbed is wrong? As long as someone isn't violating me or my
family and they aren't harming me, who am I to look down on others for
not meeting my standards? Who am I to say that it's wrong to be
self-absorbed? Same question for your friend, who is she to say that
being self-absorbed is wrong? It's her personal opinion, there is no
law anywhere saying that it's wrong to be self-absorbed.

Again, there are 'self-absorbed' people in all walks of life...so
what? <shrug> If she met an unschooler who worked 20 charities a week
and made a positive opinion on unschoolers based on that unschooler,
she still wouldn't have made a fair and balanced judgement. KWIM?


Respectfully,
Sandy Winn

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 4/27/06, Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...> wrote:
>
>
> She went on to say that she new her son well enough to know that all he
> ever would have done was spent his time on a computer and would have never
> had the opportunity o move his body and experience art the way Waldorf had
> taught him.
>
> I need some feedback my own doubts starting coming in, and I feel a little
> lost???


I would wonder if she knows her son as well as she things she does :) My
narcissistic children are outside picking dewberries because they know that
I like dewberries and want to pick enough for me to make a small cobbler.
Here's the part where you know they are truly narcissistic. None of them
likes dewberries! They are picking them for ME because they want ME to be
happy. Not because it will get them anywhere.

My son is growing brussel sprouts in his garden because his daddy likes
brussel sprouts. One of my daughters wants her friend to come live with us
because she knows how unhappy her friend is in her current family
situation. My other daughter has been helping me the past few weeks in
coordinating and cooking meals for a family in our unschool group who has
had several members in a horrible accident. Narcissists everyone of them :)

Seriously, though, I have not found children who are unschooled to be
narcissistic. It may be that this person your friend ran into would be
narcissists in any environment he was raised. Or he may have had something
in his earliest childhood (or in his adult life) that caused him to be
narcissistic. More and more often as I start looking at teens who are
unschooled I'm seeing them involved in all kinds of unusual service related
activities. I say unusual because they are things that you wouldn't see a
"regular" kid involved in. Volunteering at hospice centers, organizing pet
adoptions, volunteering with literacy programs and going on religious
missions to build houses or dig water wells in third world countries. All
very giving and compassionate activities.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

freepsgal

> I need some feedback my own doubts starting coming in, and I feel
> a little lost???

I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the unschooling lifestyle
because of meeting one person that didn't impress you. I've met
people just like that boy your friend mentioned, but they went to
public school. So, who or what do we blame then? I guess if you see
her again and she finds out you still plan to unschool and tries to
persuade you not to, just be honest. Tell her you gave it some
thought but didn't feel that knowing one bad apple should spoil the
whole bunch.

Personally, I don't see unschooling as a Me, Me kind of thing at all.
It's more of an Us, Us thing. We're a family and our very lifestyle
encompasses all of us, not catering to just one person at a time.

Beth M.

[email protected]

>>I asked what was that, she said when talking to him it was constantly I, I, I ,me me and was not particularly interested in being of service to anyone else because his whole life was based on his needs.>>

What kind of service to others was this woman expecting to see in this one meeting?

I can only give you my experience. I don't know any adult unschoolers but the numerous teen unschoolers I have met are delightful to be around. They are compassionate, caring, helpful to each other and friendly to adults and smaller kids. They are passionate about their interests in a way I wish I could have been at their age.

I think there are many different reasons to help others. For some it is innate. (I'm thinking Howard Gardner's Multiple Intelligences.) My daughter Qacei has been raising money for charity since she was 8. My son Conor will often buy treats for his buddies or offer to pay a friend's way somewhere.

For others it's having a giving nature modeled for them. They've both helped me gather food for foodbanks, items for the homeless shelter or toys for a Christmas Toys for Tots program.
None of this makes them better than people who may not immediately do this, it's just part of who they are and how they've lived. And in fact, it's a part that can sometimes hurt them as they feel things so deeply and care almost too much.

Another reason to help comes from a sense of guilt, I think. Being told you're supposed to feel a certain way or "give back" a certain amount. I suppose that has its place. But I don't think any one philosophy or teaching method is going to instill a natural inclination to reach out to others though.

>>She then went on to tell me of the antrposophical theorys through Waldorf that a child's ego doesn't develop till later and that all this self lead can create real narcissistic people.>>

Yeah Waldorf claims a lot of things about Anthroposophy. Do you know much about it? If not, I'd suggest you do some reasearch. I'm not a fan.

--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>


>>>>> Anyways ran into a person I knew and told her what I was
planning, and she
shared with me that she almost went the unschooloing path but decided
against
it , and thought Waldorf was a abettor choice.

-=-=-

Different strokes.

-=-=-=-=

>>>>> She then went onto tell me that she met one of the pioneer adult
children of
((greenburg?)unschooling and that made her know and realize the area
that can
create real problems .

-=-=-

One kid? Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference September
6-10, 2006 in Albuquerque, NM. See dozen and dozens. See for yourself.

-=-=-=-=-

>>>>> I asked what was that, she said when talking to him it was
constantly I,
I, I ,me me and was not particularly interested in being of service
to anyone
else because his whole life was based on his needs.

-=-=-=-

Odd. I have an always-schooled doctor brother-in-law who is *just* like
this!

-=-=-=-

>>>>>She then went on to tell me of the antrposophical theorys
through Waldorf that
a child's ego doesn't develop till later and that all this self lead
can create
real narcissistic people.

-=-=-=-

I think all that's crap---no basis for reality. But, different strokes!

=-=-=-=-

>>>>She went on to say that she new her son well enough to know that
all he ever
would have done was spent his time on a computer and would have never
had the
opportunity o move his body and experience art the way Waldorf had
taught him.

-=-=-=--

You mean her son has *acces* to a computer through Waldorf???

Is this a New Order Waldorf? A progressive one???


It's sad she thinks that she couldn't offer her child anything
interesting enough to pull him away from the computer. She had to
enroll him in a school---that doesn't even allow the kids on computers.
BumMER!.

-=-=-=-

>>>>She said meeting this man that could not think much beyond himself
and very
self absorbed, it actually turnded her off completly from Unschooling.
Until
then she thought it was great.

--=-=-=-=-

Again---my brother-in-law...

She must not have researched very hard then. ANd she must have been
looking for a way OUT of unschooling. Easy out!

-=-=-=-=-


>>>> Shes works with children as a Art therapist and has been in many
differnt
learning enviorements and communties of schooling

-=-=-=-=-==-

But that's assuming we have not, right?

Control freak. You almost have to be to adhere to the Waldorf plan.
Unless the child is naturally drawn to Waldorf, it'll be a horrible
fit. A computer geek would have to wait until he's in high school to
work with a computer. It's a shame she did that to her child.

-=-=-=-=-


>>>>She could biase as well and I wasnt about to defend my point, but
I doint
think I had one since Im new to all this, other than my intuition and
heart
which has always lead , but I have tended to leave out discerment??

-=-=-=-

So---what's your problem with unschooling? Just defending it?

You shouldn't have to.

But if she's basing her opinion on a meeting with one grown teen (whom
none of us have heard of), I wouldn't be running away from unschooling
too fast. Seriously: if you're looking for unschoolers---teens, in
particular---we can find someone within a short drive. But the
conference will have hundreds of children of all ages to gawk at and
interrogate.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org

Sandy Deby

Kelly I love your straight forwardness, it was great to have a belly laugh at 545 am.

Thank you and no Waldorf doesn't have computer's, it was her one at home. I think your right in regards to Waldorf and control freaks, i have seen it there and also have been their trying to fix my kids.

My youngest has had a great experience there for it has been her choice and she happens to love all the arts and so it fits for her.

Ill find out more about who the gentlemen was??

I have to say your bang on with ever thing you said.

I would love to come to the conference, see if I can make that happen, west coast of Canada???

I'm learning alot about my self and beliefs along the way this is good!!

Namaste..............Sandy

kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandy Deby <pod6freedom@...>


>>>>> Anyways ran into a person I knew and told her what I was
planning, and she
shared with me that she almost went the unschooloing path but decided
against
it , and thought Waldorf was a abettor choice.

-=-=-

Different strokes.

-=-=-=-=

>>>>> She then went onto tell me that she met one of the pioneer adult
children of
((greenburg?)unschooling and that made her know and realize the area
that can
create real problems .

-=-=-

One kid? Come to the Live and Learn Unschooling Conference September
6-10, 2006 in Albuquerque, NM. See dozen and dozens. See for yourself.

-=-=-=-=-

>>>>> I asked what was that, she said when talking to him it was
constantly I,
I, I ,me me and was not particularly interested in being of service
to anyone
else because his whole life was based on his needs.

-=-=-=-

Odd. I have an always-schooled doctor brother-in-law who is *just* like
this!

-=-=-=-

>>>>>She then went on to tell me of the antrposophical theorys
through Waldorf that
a child's ego doesn't develop till later and that all this self lead
can create
real narcissistic people.

-=-=-=-

I think all that's crap---no basis for reality. But, different strokes!

=-=-=-=-

>>>>She went on to say that she new her son well enough to know that
all he ever
would have done was spent his time on a computer and would have never
had the
opportunity o move his body and experience art the way Waldorf had
taught him.

-=-=-=--

You mean her son has *acces* to a computer through Waldorf???

Is this a New Order Waldorf? A progressive one???


It's sad she thinks that she couldn't offer her child anything
interesting enough to pull him away from the computer. She had to
enroll him in a school---that doesn't even allow the kids on computers.
BumMER!.

-=-=-=-

>>>>She said meeting this man that could not think much beyond himself
and very
self absorbed, it actually turnded her off completly from Unschooling.
Until
then she thought it was great.

--=-=-=-=-

Again---my brother-in-law...

She must not have researched very hard then. ANd she must have been
looking for a way OUT of unschooling. Easy out!

-=-=-=-=-


>>>> Shes works with children as a Art therapist and has been in many
differnt
learning enviorements and communties of schooling

-=-=-=-=-==-

But that's assuming we have not, right?

Control freak. You almost have to be to adhere to the Waldorf plan.
Unless the child is naturally drawn to Waldorf, it'll be a horrible
fit. A computer geek would have to wait until he's in high school to
work with a computer. It's a shame she did that to her child.

-=-=-=-=-


>>>>She could biase as well and I wasnt about to defend my point, but
I doint
think I had one since Im new to all this, other than my intuition and
heart
which has always lead , but I have tended to leave out discerment??

-=-=-=-

So---what's your problem with unschooling? Just defending it?

You shouldn't have to.

But if she's basing her opinion on a meeting with one grown teen (whom
none of us have heard of), I wouldn't be running away from unschooling
too fast. Seriously: if you're looking for unschoolers---teens, in
particular---we can find someone within a short drive. But the
conference will have hundreds of children of all ages to gawk at and
interrogate.



~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://liveandlearnconference.org




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>>>> I asked what was that, she said when talking to him it was
constantly I,
I, I ,me me and was not particularly interested in being of service
to anyone
else because his whole life was based on his needs.<<<<


***** I have a sil that sent her kids to Waldorf until middle school yrs and
SHE is exactly like this!!!!!! It's ALWAYS all about HER, HER, HER and her
kids are becoming the same way. Poor hubby, he's a gem.

They live out of state and whenever we talk to her *we* have to ask about the
kids and dh or the whole conversation ends up all about her, what SHE'S up
to, her whining, her politics, her job, her views, her her her. (It makes ya
ready for the snore shelf <g>)

She went to India for 3 weeks by herself last summer (again, it was all just
about her) the dh stayed home and worked and her kids stayed with us for a
week and then other relatives the rest of the time. (it was the week from hell I
might add) We never even got a phone call saying "Hi I had a great time in
India, *thanks* for keeping the kids for so long. How did it go?" Nothing. When
*we* did finally call her, she never even mentioned the kids or our visit or
anything, it was again, all about her. How boring. This is my dh sister, I
cannot believe they come from the same family, my dh is completely opposite of her
and LOVES unschooling. They both went to ps and she is a firm believer in the
Waldorf beliefs.

Kelly, I LOVED your responses about this "waldorf friend's opinion" on
unschooling. It's easy to see that you are very knowledgeable about Waldorf in your
response, too bad the Waldorf friend didn't do her homework about unschoolers
before she shot her mouth off about us. I'd say she needs to do more research
than just talking to one guy!****

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]