A newbie question
Ren Allen
"As I understand it, any parent-initiated teaching means it is NOT
unschooling..."
It depends what you mean by "parent-initiated teaching". I initiate
stuff often, but I don't "teach" anyone. I believe there is only
learning, not teaching in the sense that I can teach all I want but
unless someone wants to learn it is useless.
Learning happens all the time, whether I initiate things or not. I
initiate activity because it's fun or interesting or I think they'll
like it, not to teach them something. I think it's great if we all
learn something new, but having fun is just as worthy (and if we're
having fun we're also learning).:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
unschooling..."
It depends what you mean by "parent-initiated teaching". I initiate
stuff often, but I don't "teach" anyone. I believe there is only
learning, not teaching in the sense that I can teach all I want but
unless someone wants to learn it is useless.
Learning happens all the time, whether I initiate things or not. I
initiate activity because it's fun or interesting or I think they'll
like it, not to teach them something. I think it's great if we all
learn something new, but having fun is just as worthy (and if we're
having fun we're also learning).:)
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
aplan4life
Ren, would you mind giving some examples on how you might initiate
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?
:-)
I really want this to work for the children, well, not just for them
but for our whole family.
Thanks so much,
Sandy
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?
:-)
I really want this to work for the children, well, not just for them
but for our whole family.
Thanks so much,
Sandy
> I initiate stuff often, but I don't "teach" anyone.
dana_burdick
It depends what you mean by "parent-initiated teaching". I initiate
uninvited help" For example, lately my daughter has been quietly
working on adding numbers on her fingers. It is so tempting to make
the mistake and 'help' her. I just want to get in there and
suggest, "If you would first take the largest number and then add in
the smaller number it would make things so much easier." But this
wee suggestion could derail the entire process and even discourage
her entirely from continuing her investigations with numbers. So,
unless she invites me into her learning world, I stay quiet. I do
not help, I do not teach, I do not make comments and I do not
say, 'good job'. Any of those things are disrespectful to her
learning, potentially disrupt the process and rob her of her
experience.
Of course, I do slip up and offer the uninvited help occasionally,
but my kids catch me and remind me, "No uninvited teaching, Mommy."
When I see my kids frustrated with some project or something they
are learning, I will directly ask them if I have their invitation to
help. If they say, no, I get out of their way. It's hard to watch
them crying in frustration, but I honor their request. Sometimes,
my 6 year old's crying will continue to crescendo, so I help her
calm down first and might offer my help again. Sometimes she
accepts my help and sometimes she declines. If she declines, I
remind myself that their will be another time, another day where she
will revisit the topic. The second go around she will most likely
have a new connection or new perspective to add that will make her
learning more fulfilling.
One night my son was spouting off about his Pokemon and I was just a
bit too tired for it all at the time, so I said, "No uninvited
teaching, DS." My son smiled and immediately stopped so I could get
on to bed.
Speaking of which, I GOT to get to bed.
Good Night,
-Dana
> stuff often, but I don't "teach" anyone. I believe there is onlyWe have a policy in our house, "No uninvited teaching and no
> learning, not teaching in the sense that I can teach all I want but
> unless someone wants to learn it is useless.
uninvited help" For example, lately my daughter has been quietly
working on adding numbers on her fingers. It is so tempting to make
the mistake and 'help' her. I just want to get in there and
suggest, "If you would first take the largest number and then add in
the smaller number it would make things so much easier." But this
wee suggestion could derail the entire process and even discourage
her entirely from continuing her investigations with numbers. So,
unless she invites me into her learning world, I stay quiet. I do
not help, I do not teach, I do not make comments and I do not
say, 'good job'. Any of those things are disrespectful to her
learning, potentially disrupt the process and rob her of her
experience.
Of course, I do slip up and offer the uninvited help occasionally,
but my kids catch me and remind me, "No uninvited teaching, Mommy."
When I see my kids frustrated with some project or something they
are learning, I will directly ask them if I have their invitation to
help. If they say, no, I get out of their way. It's hard to watch
them crying in frustration, but I honor their request. Sometimes,
my 6 year old's crying will continue to crescendo, so I help her
calm down first and might offer my help again. Sometimes she
accepts my help and sometimes she declines. If she declines, I
remind myself that their will be another time, another day where she
will revisit the topic. The second go around she will most likely
have a new connection or new perspective to add that will make her
learning more fulfilling.
One night my son was spouting off about his Pokemon and I was just a
bit too tired for it all at the time, so I said, "No uninvited
teaching, DS." My son smiled and immediately stopped so I could get
on to bed.
Speaking of which, I GOT to get to bed.
Good Night,
-Dana
Ren Allen
"Ren, would you mind giving some examples on how you might initiate
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?"
Well, since our relationship is not based on me playing some teacher
role, it happens naturally all the time. I'm not here to make sure
they get certain information into their heads, so my "initiations"
have everything to do with all of us connecting and having fun
together and nothing to do with any feeling they need to learn a
specific thing.
Some examples:
~the other day they were playing sidewalk chalk and things were
beginning to deteriorate. I grabbed newspaper, S'mores materials, went
outside and shouted "Hey you guys, let's go build a fire!".
They all came quickly, but if any of them hadn't wanted to join in,
that would have been fine too.
~"Do you want to go to the Kid's Museum with me? I'd really like to
visit this week?" (more often than not, Sierra will inform me that she
MUST go this week so we need to plan a day....she initiates that more
than I do).
~"Let's go rent some movies"
~"I'm going hiking up at Buffalo Mountain tomorrow, do you want to come?"
~"Loren and Diana invited us to go play up at Rock Creek and Beauty
Spot after Park Day, who's coming with me?"
~"Hey look you guys!! These are wild onions" (me)
"Can you really eat them?" (kids)
"Yes, you can eat the whole thing, they'd be good on omellettes"
"ooh, cool" and then a wild hunt for Ramps ensues.....which led to
discovering violets, which they also tried eating and mushrooms which
we did not try eating.:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those are recent examples. As you can see, "parent initiated" is all
about us having fun together, spending time enjoying our day and
living well. I often tell people that if Living is Learning, then all
we really need to worry about is living WELL. Make LIFE good and there
will be learning happening all the time. We share the day to day swirl
of information as partners.
I am constantly looking up stuff to do in this area and all along the
Appalachians (these mountains are FULL of cool stuff). I offer, they
choose. They ask, I research. It's all just part of the ebb and flow
of a family living and learning together.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?"
Well, since our relationship is not based on me playing some teacher
role, it happens naturally all the time. I'm not here to make sure
they get certain information into their heads, so my "initiations"
have everything to do with all of us connecting and having fun
together and nothing to do with any feeling they need to learn a
specific thing.
Some examples:
~the other day they were playing sidewalk chalk and things were
beginning to deteriorate. I grabbed newspaper, S'mores materials, went
outside and shouted "Hey you guys, let's go build a fire!".
They all came quickly, but if any of them hadn't wanted to join in,
that would have been fine too.
~"Do you want to go to the Kid's Museum with me? I'd really like to
visit this week?" (more often than not, Sierra will inform me that she
MUST go this week so we need to plan a day....she initiates that more
than I do).
~"Let's go rent some movies"
~"I'm going hiking up at Buffalo Mountain tomorrow, do you want to come?"
~"Loren and Diana invited us to go play up at Rock Creek and Beauty
Spot after Park Day, who's coming with me?"
~"Hey look you guys!! These are wild onions" (me)
"Can you really eat them?" (kids)
"Yes, you can eat the whole thing, they'd be good on omellettes"
"ooh, cool" and then a wild hunt for Ramps ensues.....which led to
discovering violets, which they also tried eating and mushrooms which
we did not try eating.:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Those are recent examples. As you can see, "parent initiated" is all
about us having fun together, spending time enjoying our day and
living well. I often tell people that if Living is Learning, then all
we really need to worry about is living WELL. Make LIFE good and there
will be learning happening all the time. We share the day to day swirl
of information as partners.
I am constantly looking up stuff to do in this area and all along the
Appalachians (these mountains are FULL of cool stuff). I offer, they
choose. They ask, I research. It's all just part of the ebb and flow
of a family living and learning together.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
aplan4life
Thank you, Ren, what great examples...I feel like such an idiot
though! LOL I've been reading your blog and it took you pointing it
out in the way you did below for me to 'get it'. :-)
~Sandy
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
though! LOL I've been reading your blog and it took you pointing it
out in the way you did below for me to 'get it'. :-)
~Sandy
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>come?"
> "Ren, would you mind giving some examples on how you might initiate
> something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?"
>
>
> Well, since our relationship is not based on me playing some teacher
> role, it happens naturally all the time. I'm not here to make sure
> they get certain information into their heads, so my "initiations"
> have everything to do with all of us connecting and having fun
> together and nothing to do with any feeling they need to learn a
> specific thing.
>
> Some examples:
>
> ~the other day they were playing sidewalk chalk and things were
> beginning to deteriorate. I grabbed newspaper, S'mores materials, went
> outside and shouted "Hey you guys, let's go build a fire!".
> They all came quickly, but if any of them hadn't wanted to join in,
> that would have been fine too.
>
> ~"Do you want to go to the Kid's Museum with me? I'd really like to
> visit this week?" (more often than not, Sierra will inform me that she
> MUST go this week so we need to plan a day....she initiates that more
> than I do).
>
> ~"Let's go rent some movies"
>
> ~"I'm going hiking up at Buffalo Mountain tomorrow, do you want to
>
> ~"Loren and Diana invited us to go play up at Rock Creek and Beauty
> Spot after Park Day, who's coming with me?"
>
> ~"Hey look you guys!! These are wild onions" (me)
> "Can you really eat them?" (kids)
> "Yes, you can eat the whole thing, they'd be good on omellettes"
> "ooh, cool" and then a wild hunt for Ramps ensues.....which led to
> discovering violets, which they also tried eating and mushrooms which
> we did not try eating.:)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Those are recent examples. As you can see, "parent initiated" is all
> about us having fun together, spending time enjoying our day and
> living well. I often tell people that if Living is Learning, then all
> we really need to worry about is living WELL. Make LIFE good and there
> will be learning happening all the time. We share the day to day swirl
> of information as partners.
>
> I am constantly looking up stuff to do in this area and all along the
> Appalachians (these mountains are FULL of cool stuff). I offer, they
> choose. They ask, I research. It's all just part of the ebb and flow
> of a family living and learning together.
>
> Ren
> learninginfreedom.com
>
Ren Allen
" I've been reading your blog and it took you pointing it
out in the way you did below for me to 'get it'."
Well, a blog is little snippets of our day and I don't really point
out the WAY it unfolds. That's what's great about a discussion list,
you can really "cement" all your thoughts and questions in a different
way than reading about an unschooling family from a blog.
We must both be online, our last posts came through at exactly the
same time!!:) ~waving at Sandy in P'cola~
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
out in the way you did below for me to 'get it'."
Well, a blog is little snippets of our day and I don't really point
out the WAY it unfolds. That's what's great about a discussion list,
you can really "cement" all your thoughts and questions in a different
way than reading about an unschooling family from a blog.
We must both be online, our last posts came through at exactly the
same time!!:) ~waving at Sandy in P'cola~
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Elissa Jill Cleaveland
would you mind giving some examples on how you might initiate
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?
************
Hey Look at this!
I wonder what would happen if....
I think I'll draw outside, anyone else want to come?
Anyone feel like going to X with me tomorrow?
Are you having some specific issues right now that you are not sure how to
handle? Maybe if you give some specific examples we can give you ideas.
(I'm terrible at open ended questions! LOL)
Elissa Jill
The music in me is a gift from the Universe.
My job is to care for it and use it well; I am its bearer, not its owner.
~Johnny Cash's Moma
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?
************
Hey Look at this!
I wonder what would happen if....
I think I'll draw outside, anyone else want to come?
Anyone feel like going to X with me tomorrow?
Are you having some specific issues right now that you are not sure how to
handle? Maybe if you give some specific examples we can give you ideas.
(I'm terrible at open ended questions! LOL)
Elissa Jill
The music in me is a gift from the Universe.
My job is to care for it and use it well; I am its bearer, not its owner.
~Johnny Cash's Moma
Deb Lewis
***would you mind giving some examples on how you might initiate
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?***
I initiate things all the time without a thought of teaching. I don't
initiate things because I think Dylan needs to learn something, I
initiate things because I have an idea about what he might like.
"Let's go to Helena." (hand basket) <snort>
Helena is a town about an hour away and we like some of the art galleries
and museums and book stores. A trip to Helena usually means lunch at the
Chinese restaurant or the natural foods deli and a restocking of our Soy
Dream supply. <g>
"Let's go to the ponds and see who's around." (meaning birds, bugs,
muskrats, etc.)
"Lets go lay on the trampoline and look at the stars." Or, "I'm going
for a bounce, want to come?"
"Let's walk down to the library/video store and get a movie."
"Let's go out for lunch today? Where would you like to go?" We drove a
hundred and forty miles once to have lunch. <G>
"Let's go hiking."
"Let's go camping this weekend."
"Let's take the kites up to Elkhorn park."
"I found this article I thought you might like."
"I found this T-shirt I thought you might like."
"I found this book I thought you might like. "
"I saw a preview for a movie I think you'll love."
"There's a MASH marathon tomorrow starting at noon."
"Look at this rock I found."
"Come look at this huge spider!"
"There's an acrobat show in Butte tomorrow, want to go?"
"The ranchers agra has baby ducks let's go see them."
"Sue set up an obstacle course for her dog, let's go look."
"I bought you a new sketch pad."
Etc.
Deb Lewis
something without making the children feel as though you are teaching?***
I initiate things all the time without a thought of teaching. I don't
initiate things because I think Dylan needs to learn something, I
initiate things because I have an idea about what he might like.
"Let's go to Helena." (hand basket) <snort>
Helena is a town about an hour away and we like some of the art galleries
and museums and book stores. A trip to Helena usually means lunch at the
Chinese restaurant or the natural foods deli and a restocking of our Soy
Dream supply. <g>
"Let's go to the ponds and see who's around." (meaning birds, bugs,
muskrats, etc.)
"Lets go lay on the trampoline and look at the stars." Or, "I'm going
for a bounce, want to come?"
"Let's walk down to the library/video store and get a movie."
"Let's go out for lunch today? Where would you like to go?" We drove a
hundred and forty miles once to have lunch. <G>
"Let's go hiking."
"Let's go camping this weekend."
"Let's take the kites up to Elkhorn park."
"I found this article I thought you might like."
"I found this T-shirt I thought you might like."
"I found this book I thought you might like. "
"I saw a preview for a movie I think you'll love."
"There's a MASH marathon tomorrow starting at noon."
"Look at this rock I found."
"Come look at this huge spider!"
"There's an acrobat show in Butte tomorrow, want to go?"
"The ranchers agra has baby ducks let's go see them."
"Sue set up an obstacle course for her dog, let's go look."
"I bought you a new sketch pad."
Etc.
Deb Lewis
Nicole Willoughby
There isnt any real point to this post I just feel like sharing :)
I have to admit I was growing really frustrated. Courtney's first attempt at riding a bike without training wheels was about a year and a half ago. She got scared really easy, she was riding all over the neighborhood with me running behind her with one finger on the back of her seat but the second she realized I let go she would make herself crash.
Well her bike has been sitting in the storage shed for about 9 months and she got it out. She asked me to help her, again crashing as soon as I let go. Then she asked our neighbor and again crashed as soon as she let go.
So then she told us to leave her alone and she spent about 2 hours sitting on her bike with her feet on the ground just walking up and down the sidewalk. Then she started just pushing down one pedal , then worked on getting both feet on the pedals and going a short distance.
4 hours later she was riding all up and down the sidewalk with great joy telling any neighbor who happened to walk outside about her new acomplishment :)
I took 4 hours for her to do what I had been trying to "teach" her for a year and a half.
She may be turning 7 in July and still not reading much at all yet but I now really believe that she will ........when she is ready in probably in about 4 hours :) .
Nicole
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have to admit I was growing really frustrated. Courtney's first attempt at riding a bike without training wheels was about a year and a half ago. She got scared really easy, she was riding all over the neighborhood with me running behind her with one finger on the back of her seat but the second she realized I let go she would make herself crash.
Well her bike has been sitting in the storage shed for about 9 months and she got it out. She asked me to help her, again crashing as soon as I let go. Then she asked our neighbor and again crashed as soon as she let go.
So then she told us to leave her alone and she spent about 2 hours sitting on her bike with her feet on the ground just walking up and down the sidewalk. Then she started just pushing down one pedal , then worked on getting both feet on the pedals and going a short distance.
4 hours later she was riding all up and down the sidewalk with great joy telling any neighbor who happened to walk outside about her new acomplishment :)
I took 4 hours for her to do what I had been trying to "teach" her for a year and a half.
She may be turning 7 in July and still not reading much at all yet but I now really believe that she will ........when she is ready in probably in about 4 hours :) .
Nicole
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>So then she told us to leave her alone and she spent about 2 hours sitting on her bike with her feet on the ground just walking up and down the sidewalk. Then she started just pushing down one pedal , then worked on getting both feet on the pedals and going a short distance.4 hours later she was riding >>
Oh Nicole this is exactly how my son Conor did it too! Only with him I swear it took about 20 minutes. I remember because he went out to try as I was making a phone call. I wasn't RU yet and was sure he would end up frustrated and disappointed. After all, I had tried to teach him many times before. :-p He came in before the phone call was over to ask me to watch him ride down the block.
Kids are amazing. That's not the first lesson in learning that Conor has given me.
Congratulations to Courtney!
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Nicole Willoughby <cncnawilloughby@...>
[email protected]
>>She may be turning 7 in July and still not reading much at all yet but I now really believe that she will ........when she is ready in probably in about 4 hours :)>>Oh I missed this part. Conor did this too. :o) When I took him out of school in 4th grade he was barely sounding out Frog and Toad books with little or no comprehension. This was with intensive intervention, labelling of ld's, tutors, IEP's, etc. And he hated reading.
When he came home, I took off all the pressure and started totally unschooling with him. I told he never had to read again if he didn't want to. For awhile he didn't. Then he started looking at old picture books. Then he discovered comics. He loved them and would ask me for words all the time. Then he wasn't asking so much. I took him out of school in December. By June he was reading Harry Potter on his own. He's a voracious reader now at age 16.
You are so right. There is NOTHING to worry about with reading. When they're ready and interested it will happen. I have not yet met an unschooled child that didn't learn to read.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Nicole Willoughby <cncnawilloughby@...>
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/17/2006 9:50:50 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
cncnawilloughby@... writes:
4 hours later she was riding all up and down the sidewalk with great joy
telling any neighbor who happened to walk outside about her new acomplishment :)
I took 4 hours for her to do what I had been trying to "teach" her for a
year and a half.
I learned how to ride a bike on my own when i was 4. I got on my bike at
the top of a hill, balanced my self and pushed off. I stayed on until i fell,
and would climb back up to the top and start again! It worked for me.
Mandy
(http://www.baby-gaga.com/) (http://www.baby-gaga.com/)
(http://www.baby-gaga.com/) (http://www.baby-gaga.com/)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cncnawilloughby@... writes:
4 hours later she was riding all up and down the sidewalk with great joy
telling any neighbor who happened to walk outside about her new acomplishment :)
I took 4 hours for her to do what I had been trying to "teach" her for a
year and a half.
I learned how to ride a bike on my own when i was 4. I got on my bike at
the top of a hill, balanced my self and pushed off. I stayed on until i fell,
and would climb back up to the top and start again! It worked for me.
Mandy
(http://www.baby-gaga.com/) (http://www.baby-gaga.com/)
(http://www.baby-gaga.com/) (http://www.baby-gaga.com/)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]