allowances
Misty Felner
RE: Marsie spent her allowance (not tied to chores)on candy that she shared
with her siblings.
Just wondering what you give her allowance for. Although my dd is only 2
this is something I've already started wondering about. I want her to
realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as a member of a
family (helping with chores) and I don't believe children should get paid
for these. However I also don't want to teach her that she gets money for
nothing.
Misty
with her siblings.
Just wondering what you give her allowance for. Although my dd is only 2
this is something I've already started wondering about. I want her to
realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as a member of a
family (helping with chores) and I don't believe children should get paid
for these. However I also don't want to teach her that she gets money for
nothing.
Misty
[email protected]
Everybody in our house has an allowance. It tends to be based on what kinds of things you spend money on (candy exclusively vs. all personal products/outings/etc.) Each of us has a set amount with a fudge factor built in. Everyone is also expected to help out various ways. Nothing major and terribly time consuming but it is expected. Nothing is written in stone. Everything is fluid and flexible but it is expected. I think of it as a give an take kind of thing. All of us take time and energy out of the family for various things, we need to all give some time and energy back. If a kid is not willing to put energy back into the family, I am less willing to give energy to that kid's activities. I am having to give extra time and energy to the family to take up the slack. If a kid is willing to help out, I will go above and beyond the call to help that kid do what they want. My kids are in lots of activities that require lots of money and travel all over the state. We
are gone most weekends. I enjoy watching the kids enjoy themselves but it does require a lot of time and energy to do.
Marsie spends 100 percent of her allowance on food. I pay for all her entertainment. Adriane likes expensive shampoos and makeup so her allowance buys the brands she likes, plus outings with friends, etc. So Adriane gets more money than Marsie. If Marsie runs out of money and I have some, I'm still likely to buy the gum she wants, just like she will spend her money and share with her siblings.
We try to think of how we do things as general guidelines for how things go, not rigid rules.
Julie S.
are gone most weekends. I enjoy watching the kids enjoy themselves but it does require a lot of time and energy to do.
Marsie spends 100 percent of her allowance on food. I pay for all her entertainment. Adriane likes expensive shampoos and makeup so her allowance buys the brands she likes, plus outings with friends, etc. So Adriane gets more money than Marsie. If Marsie runs out of money and I have some, I'm still likely to buy the gum she wants, just like she will spend her money and share with her siblings.
We try to think of how we do things as general guidelines for how things go, not rigid rules.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Misty Felner <misty@...>
Date: Friday, April 14, 2006 2:19 pm
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] allowances
> RE: Marsie spent her allowance (not tied to chores)on candy that
> she shared
> with her siblings.
>
> Just wondering what you give her allowance for. Although my dd is
> only 2
> this is something I've already started wondering about. I want
> her to
> realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as a member
> of a
> family (helping with chores) and I don't believe children should
> get paid
> for these. However I also don't want to teach her that she gets
> money for
> nothing.
>
> Misty
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
>>Just wondering what you give her allowance for.>>We give allowance because our kids are part of the family. We have family money that is earned and we feel it's appropriate that they have a share to do with as they wish. My husband doesn't pay me for doing chores and likewise we don't pay the kids.
It's been a great way for them to get used to handling money. They have both found ways to earn their own money too over the years with pet sitting, lawn mowing, etc. At 15 Conor started working at our family's restaurant and stopped needing allowance. Qacei still gets hers.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Misty Felner" <misty@...>
Ellen Christian
I doubt mine is the correct "radical unschooling" answer but here goes. Neither of my kids get an allowance. They are 13 and 8. They do get money for birthdays, holidays or special occasions like if we are going to a fair, etc.
They do have responsibilities around the house, not a lot of them but some. I will ask my daughter (13) to occasionally help me with sweeping or laundry. My son (8) I ask occasionally to help with laundry or dusting. They both help with work outside as needed.
My reasoning - no one pays me to clean this house or make meals, it's my responsibility as a member of this household. When they grow up no one is going to pay them to make their family's dinner or sweep the family's floors. They live here & help get it dirty. They enjoy the "fruits" of our garden, etc. So they need to help out.
The money they get given to them is theirs to spend as they wish. My son almost always spends his on Pokemon cards or Dragonball Z cards. My daughter usually spends hers on earrings, art supplies or posters. Neither of them generally chooses candy/junk but that is because they are allowed to eat it within reason at home. I say within reason because both have ADHD and too much sugar is not good for their behavior.
So just my .02
Ellen
Misty Felner <misty@...> wrote:
Just wondering what you give her allowance for. Although my dd is only 2
this is something I've already started wondering about. I want her to
realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as a member of a
family (helping with chores) and I don't believe children should get paid
for these.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They do have responsibilities around the house, not a lot of them but some. I will ask my daughter (13) to occasionally help me with sweeping or laundry. My son (8) I ask occasionally to help with laundry or dusting. They both help with work outside as needed.
My reasoning - no one pays me to clean this house or make meals, it's my responsibility as a member of this household. When they grow up no one is going to pay them to make their family's dinner or sweep the family's floors. They live here & help get it dirty. They enjoy the "fruits" of our garden, etc. So they need to help out.
The money they get given to them is theirs to spend as they wish. My son almost always spends his on Pokemon cards or Dragonball Z cards. My daughter usually spends hers on earrings, art supplies or posters. Neither of them generally chooses candy/junk but that is because they are allowed to eat it within reason at home. I say within reason because both have ADHD and too much sugar is not good for their behavior.
So just my .02
Ellen
Misty Felner <misty@...> wrote:
Just wondering what you give her allowance for. Although my dd is only 2
this is something I've already started wondering about. I want her to
realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as a member of a
family (helping with chores) and I don't believe children should get paid
for these.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***Just wondering what you give her allowance for***
Dylan gets money because that's fair. David (dh) has been the money
earning member of this partnership but the money belongs to all of us.
On payday Dylan gets money and the amount depends on how much extra we
have. It's usually around fifty dollars a month, when David is working,
so twenty five dollars per pay check. I also try to put money in his
savings account.
I use our common money for everything each of us may need and if it goes
that far, for everything each of us may want. So even if Dylan has
seventy dollars in his wallet I pay for special request groceries, or
whatever, from the store and little things he may want when we're
shopping together. Dylan uses his money for things he wants to purchase
himself, books, cd's, games. He chooses what he's going to pay for, I
haven't set the guidelines. It's his money and I don't tell him how or
when or in what way he has to spend or save. If he's out and wants to
stop for a Coke, he uses his money. He is also very generous with his
money and if we stop so he can grab a snack before heading out for a
drive he'll return to the car with something for everyone else, too.
Last week I saw the sweetest little desk in an antique store window and
went in to see how much it was. I still feel like poking my eyes out,
days later, but in spite of my horror at the price, Dylan said he had
more than enough in his savings account if I'd like to use that to get
the desk. This is a boy who is saving for a car and will be getting
his license in a little over a year. He has plans for his money, yet was
generous enough to offer it to me. I believe his generosity to us and
others is, in part, a result of our generosity with him.
***I want her to realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as
a member of a
family (helping with chores) ***
When did she apply for the job? ; ) Dylan didn't choose to come here
to work. But Dylan has a sense of responsibility as a family member and
it grew out of living with (reasonably) responsible people. After some
time of living with us and seeing us clean up spills, etc. he
eventually helped. When he saw us take our plates to the sink he did
likewise. We let him help when he wanted to, even though at first his
help often meant extra work. <g> We helped him and from that, and
because he's a nice person, he wanted to help. That's what humans do.
It's all part of learning naturally.
Dylan (13) helps around the house a lot but not because he's required to.
He helps because that's how we live, with a mind to helping each other
and ourselves. We all appreciate being comfortable and we all, at
different times and in different ways, make an effort to keep things
comfortable. I am not a meticulous housekeeper. My standards are
likely lower than the standards of others here, but we're not sticky or
infested or in danger of being condemned and we do the things that seem
most important at the moment.
As partners to Dylan we share the benefits of our lifestyle. David and
I were adults when we mutually agreed to a partnership so we came into
this relationship with free choice. Dylan didn't get a choice and we
believed the choice to help, as a member of the family, was his alone.
Since we knew he was a nice person right from the start there was no real
question as to whether he would someday choose to help where he saw a
need for it. There is no way to make someone responsible; there is a
choice to live responsibly.
It may go against everything you've ever heard about kids learning to
help around the house, but you will hear similar stories from other
unschoolers. Children living with kind and helpful parents who are
thoughtful and generous, will be children who are kind and helpful and
thoughtful and generous.
Deb Lewis
Dylan gets money because that's fair. David (dh) has been the money
earning member of this partnership but the money belongs to all of us.
On payday Dylan gets money and the amount depends on how much extra we
have. It's usually around fifty dollars a month, when David is working,
so twenty five dollars per pay check. I also try to put money in his
savings account.
I use our common money for everything each of us may need and if it goes
that far, for everything each of us may want. So even if Dylan has
seventy dollars in his wallet I pay for special request groceries, or
whatever, from the store and little things he may want when we're
shopping together. Dylan uses his money for things he wants to purchase
himself, books, cd's, games. He chooses what he's going to pay for, I
haven't set the guidelines. It's his money and I don't tell him how or
when or in what way he has to spend or save. If he's out and wants to
stop for a Coke, he uses his money. He is also very generous with his
money and if we stop so he can grab a snack before heading out for a
drive he'll return to the car with something for everyone else, too.
Last week I saw the sweetest little desk in an antique store window and
went in to see how much it was. I still feel like poking my eyes out,
days later, but in spite of my horror at the price, Dylan said he had
more than enough in his savings account if I'd like to use that to get
the desk. This is a boy who is saving for a car and will be getting
his license in a little over a year. He has plans for his money, yet was
generous enough to offer it to me. I believe his generosity to us and
others is, in part, a result of our generosity with him.
***I want her to realize that she has responsibilities and obligations as
a member of a
family (helping with chores) ***
When did she apply for the job? ; ) Dylan didn't choose to come here
to work. But Dylan has a sense of responsibility as a family member and
it grew out of living with (reasonably) responsible people. After some
time of living with us and seeing us clean up spills, etc. he
eventually helped. When he saw us take our plates to the sink he did
likewise. We let him help when he wanted to, even though at first his
help often meant extra work. <g> We helped him and from that, and
because he's a nice person, he wanted to help. That's what humans do.
It's all part of learning naturally.
Dylan (13) helps around the house a lot but not because he's required to.
He helps because that's how we live, with a mind to helping each other
and ourselves. We all appreciate being comfortable and we all, at
different times and in different ways, make an effort to keep things
comfortable. I am not a meticulous housekeeper. My standards are
likely lower than the standards of others here, but we're not sticky or
infested or in danger of being condemned and we do the things that seem
most important at the moment.
As partners to Dylan we share the benefits of our lifestyle. David and
I were adults when we mutually agreed to a partnership so we came into
this relationship with free choice. Dylan didn't get a choice and we
believed the choice to help, as a member of the family, was his alone.
Since we knew he was a nice person right from the start there was no real
question as to whether he would someday choose to help where he saw a
need for it. There is no way to make someone responsible; there is a
choice to live responsibly.
It may go against everything you've ever heard about kids learning to
help around the house, but you will hear similar stories from other
unschoolers. Children living with kind and helpful parents who are
thoughtful and generous, will be children who are kind and helpful and
thoughtful and generous.
Deb Lewis
Deb Lewis
***no one pays me to clean this house or make meals, it's my
responsibility as a member of this household.***
You weren't made a member of the family by the actions of others. You
chose.
***When they grow up no one is going to pay them to make their family's
dinner or sweep the family's floors.***
When they grow up, they will choose to have a family, or not; they will
choose to take care of their home, or not.
***They live here & help get it dirty. They enjoy the "fruits" of our
garden, etc. So they need to help out. ***
You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live in your
house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messy and knowing
that, you chose to have children. It's a wonderful choice, and it *is*
a choice and you're saying that in all your free choice, you will now
take away their choice to be freely participating, helpful members of the
family.
They can't freely choose to be helpful if they are required by you, to
help.
Deb Lewis
responsibility as a member of this household.***
You weren't made a member of the family by the actions of others. You
chose.
***When they grow up no one is going to pay them to make their family's
dinner or sweep the family's floors.***
When they grow up, they will choose to have a family, or not; they will
choose to take care of their home, or not.
***They live here & help get it dirty. They enjoy the "fruits" of our
garden, etc. So they need to help out. ***
You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live in your
house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messy and knowing
that, you chose to have children. It's a wonderful choice, and it *is*
a choice and you're saying that in all your free choice, you will now
take away their choice to be freely participating, helpful members of the
family.
They can't freely choose to be helpful if they are required by you, to
help.
Deb Lewis
Ellen Christian
Even if I were single, I would still have things I "have" to do.. whether it be work or laundry or finding food or whatever. Yes, I chose to have a husband and two children but even if I did not, I would still need to find a way to get myself clean clothes. Trust me, as a child who was "required" to do nothing to help around the house or the yard, I left home & got married at 18 and new nothing about how to take care of myself. I did not know how to do laundry or cook or anything else. I'd never balanced a checkbook or gone grocery shopping. My parents did me no favors by allowing me not to do those things. I would have much rather known how to do them than stumbled along making huge mistakes before I figured out how to do them. At least my kids will have the knowledge of how to do them. Once they are adults if they choose not to then that is their choice.
As I said in my original post, I'm sure this is not a "radical unschooling" choice but since I'm not "radical" it works fine for me.
Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
You weren't made a member of the family by the actions of others. You
chose.
When they grow up, they will choose to have a family, or not; they will
choose to take care of their home, or not.
You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live in your
house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messy and knowing
that, you chose to have children. It's a wonderful choice, and it *is*
a choice and you're saying that in all your free choice, you will now
take away their choice to be freely participating, helpful members of the
family.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As I said in my original post, I'm sure this is not a "radical unschooling" choice but since I'm not "radical" it works fine for me.
Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
You weren't made a member of the family by the actions of others. You
chose.
When they grow up, they will choose to have a family, or not; they will
choose to take care of their home, or not.
You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live in your
house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messy and knowing
that, you chose to have children. It's a wonderful choice, and it *is*
a choice and you're saying that in all your free choice, you will now
take away their choice to be freely participating, helpful members of the
family.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/14/06, jnjstau@... <jnjstau@...> wrote:
his money because we have such an alternative lifestyle that he may not
approve of Dan spending his money on organic soil, expensive coffee and
trips to Disney. :)
Our kids get an "allowance" but it is mostly very loosely constructed. It
is around their age per paycheck. Keon can easily be the richest or the
poorest member of the house depending on if he remembers that he has money.
Mary Elayen is a saver. She has goals and saves to meet them. Emily *can*
have goals and save to meet them but she is very much an impulse shopper.
We chose dollar per age as a guideline, but the kids are always finding ways
to earn more money. So if Mary Elayne, for instance, bargains with me to
clean my hobby area and wash all my rubber stamps for $2 (a bargain in my
opinion) then she could easily end up having more money than her siblings
put together. And then we have the "Name Ever Changing Restaurant" which
the kids run from time to time where they charge 50¢ for drinks (including
water - "But madam, the water is filtered. We do not serve that nasty tap
water here!") and meals are generally $1. I'm still trying to figure out
how come I have to pay for food that I bought and (much of the time)
prepared. :)
One things the kids have come to realize is that if there is something that
they *really* want, that they can come to us to work out a way to get it.
Whether it is a CD or a television set. We will help them earn that money
or contribute to their fund to help them get it. The kids recently wanted
to buy Kingdom Hearts II (a video game) and it was $50. They pooled their
money together and were still $10 short. I agreed to purchase ownership
rights into the game. So I own 20% of the game :) I think that means if I
can ever complete KH1 that I can play this game. I'm not so sure what
happened at the bargaining table but the kids sure were laughing (I am not
what you would call a video game officiando!)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I'm so glad that Dan's boss doesn't pay him based on how he thinks he spends
> Everybody in our house has an allowance. It tends to be based on what
> kinds of things you spend money on (candy exclusively vs. all personal
> products/outings/etc.)
his money because we have such an alternative lifestyle that he may not
approve of Dan spending his money on organic soil, expensive coffee and
trips to Disney. :)
Our kids get an "allowance" but it is mostly very loosely constructed. It
is around their age per paycheck. Keon can easily be the richest or the
poorest member of the house depending on if he remembers that he has money.
Mary Elayen is a saver. She has goals and saves to meet them. Emily *can*
have goals and save to meet them but she is very much an impulse shopper.
We chose dollar per age as a guideline, but the kids are always finding ways
to earn more money. So if Mary Elayne, for instance, bargains with me to
clean my hobby area and wash all my rubber stamps for $2 (a bargain in my
opinion) then she could easily end up having more money than her siblings
put together. And then we have the "Name Ever Changing Restaurant" which
the kids run from time to time where they charge 50¢ for drinks (including
water - "But madam, the water is filtered. We do not serve that nasty tap
water here!") and meals are generally $1. I'm still trying to figure out
how come I have to pay for food that I bought and (much of the time)
prepared. :)
One things the kids have come to realize is that if there is something that
they *really* want, that they can come to us to work out a way to get it.
Whether it is a CD or a television set. We will help them earn that money
or contribute to their fund to help them get it. The kids recently wanted
to buy Kingdom Hearts II (a video game) and it was $50. They pooled their
money together and were still $10 short. I agreed to purchase ownership
rights into the game. So I own 20% of the game :) I think that means if I
can ever complete KH1 that I can play this game. I'm not so sure what
happened at the bargaining table but the kids sure were laughing (I am not
what you would call a video game officiando!)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
I do not 'force' my kids to help out, haven't for years and years. Yet all 4
of them do most of their own laundry, can and do help with cleaning, cook
quite well and generally can keep the house running. Today they have about
25 kids coming for a Capture the Flag game. I've bought some food to feed
the masses and the kids have cleaned the house because it matters to them
(I'm not the best housekeeper in the world, so they didn't get that from my
example). This afternoon we will prepare the food together. I'm not being
forced to help them prepare for the party and they are not being forced to
clean, yet we are all enjoying the process of getting ready together. I
won't be playing Capture the Flag, but I love having all the teens here.
When it's all done, the house will probably be messy with lots of dirty
dishes and lots of happy kids. I may or may not get help cleaning up....but
either way, I will straighten up with lots of joy at the fun everyone had.
And I can guarantee at least a dozen kids will hug me and tell me how much
they love me and love our home.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
of them do most of their own laundry, can and do help with cleaning, cook
quite well and generally can keep the house running. Today they have about
25 kids coming for a Capture the Flag game. I've bought some food to feed
the masses and the kids have cleaned the house because it matters to them
(I'm not the best housekeeper in the world, so they didn't get that from my
example). This afternoon we will prepare the food together. I'm not being
forced to help them prepare for the party and they are not being forced to
clean, yet we are all enjoying the process of getting ready together. I
won't be playing Capture the Flag, but I love having all the teens here.
When it's all done, the house will probably be messy with lots of dirty
dishes and lots of happy kids. I may or may not get help cleaning up....but
either way, I will straighten up with lots of joy at the fun everyone had.
And I can guarantee at least a dozen kids will hug me and tell me how much
they love me and love our home.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 4/15/06, Ellen Christian <scentednights2002@...> wrote:
>
> Even if I were single, I would still have things I "have" to do.. whether
> it be work or laundry or finding food or whatever. Yes, I chose to have a
> husband and two children but even if I did not, I would still need to find a
> way to get myself clean clothes. Trust me, as a child who was "required" to
> do nothing to help around the house or the yard, I left home & got married
> at 18 and new nothing about how to take care of myself. I did not know how
> to do laundry or cook or anything else. I'd never balanced a checkbook or
> gone grocery shopping. My parents did me no favors by allowing me not to do
> those things. I would have much rather known how to do them than stumbled
> along making huge mistakes before I figured out how to do them. At least my
> kids will have the knowledge of how to do them. Once they are adults if they
> choose not to then that is their choice.
>
> As I said in my original post, I'm sure this is not a "radical
> unschooling" choice but since I'm not "radical" it works fine for me.
>
> Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
> You weren't made a member of the family by the actions of others. You
> chose.
>
> When they grow up, they will choose to have a family, or not; they will
> choose to take care of their home, or not.
>
> You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live in your
> house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messy and knowing
> that, you chose to have children. It's a wonderful choice, and it *is*
> a choice and you're saying that in all your free choice, you will now
> take away their choice to be freely participating, helpful members of the
> family.
>
>
> Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
> Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
> Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
>
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...>
wrote:
all that. The argument of "they didn't ask to be born" never set
well with me -- and I think you can extend it to adults. Oookay, we
didn't ask to exist, but I, for one, am sure glad I do, and
don't "blame" my parents for my existence. My son has things he
needs to know how to do, and he won't get some of it by osmosis.
(Trust me, he won't. Maybe your kids will, but there are some
things my son is oblivious to!) If I don't give him the tools, then
when he is an adult, he won't be able to "make anything", if you
will, because his toolbox will be missing critical elements.
Just my take on it.
Linda
wrote:
>in your
> You brought them in on purpose. They didn't decide to come live
> house. Life is messy, children are messy, people are messyBut we need to give the children the tools to learn how to deal with
all that. The argument of "they didn't ask to be born" never set
well with me -- and I think you can extend it to adults. Oookay, we
didn't ask to exist, but I, for one, am sure glad I do, and
don't "blame" my parents for my existence. My son has things he
needs to know how to do, and he won't get some of it by osmosis.
(Trust me, he won't. Maybe your kids will, but there are some
things my son is oblivious to!) If I don't give him the tools, then
when he is an adult, he won't be able to "make anything", if you
will, because his toolbox will be missing critical elements.
Just my take on it.
Linda
Sylvia Toyama
Yes, I chose to have a husband and two children but even if I did not, I would still need to find a way to get myself clean clothes.
*****
Only if having clean clothes -- or a clean house, or a garden, or whatever -- was important to you and what you wanted from life. It's all a choice.
Sylvia
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*****
Only if having clean clothes -- or a clean house, or a garden, or whatever -- was important to you and what you wanted from life. It's all a choice.
Sylvia
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Sylvia Toyama
No one here is advocating that kids never learn how to do housework or other needful tasks -- simply that kids should not be required to do those things just for our reasons. My kids don't have chores or established responsibilities, but they do help out with a lot of things, especially given their ages. They'll do almost anything I ask of them. When one says no, it's usually because he's already busy with something else. Sometimes, that means I wait for him to do it later, other times now is important to me, so I do it myself.
There's a difference between showing, both thru example and active participation, a child how to do something and forcing him to, simply because he lives in your home and you feel it's more work than you can/want to do.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
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There's a difference between showing, both thru example and active participation, a child how to do something and forcing him to, simply because he lives in your home and you feel it's more work than you can/want to do.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ellen Christian
What's the difference between asking them to fold the laundry and requiring them to fold the laundry? I ask... they do. Very rarely do they say I don't want to but occasionally they say can I do it later & I say sure go ahead. Either way I am asking them to do it & they are doing it. I ask for their help when I'm busy or sick and they help. I think the only difference is the word you choose to use.
Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote: No one here is advocating that kids never learn how to do housework or other needful tasks -- simply that kids should not be required to do those things just for our reasons.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote: No one here is advocating that kids never learn how to do housework or other needful tasks -- simply that kids should not be required to do those things just for our reasons.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
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Deb Lewis
***Even if I were single, I would still have things I "have" to do..
whether it be
work or laundry or finding food or whatever. ***
If you were single there would be things you would choose to do, same as
today. "Have to" is a trap closed tight on the mind and will squeeze the
joy right out of life. All of life is choice.
If you want to live, then you eat, but you can choose not to. If you
want clean clothes then you wash them or hire someone to wash them but
it's a choice. If you want money and some of the things it can get you
then you work, or steal or scam and it's all a choice.
***Trust me, ***
I trust you believe a certain way, but unschooling can show you a
different and better way to be with your kids.
***as a child who was "required" to do nothing ***
How can one be required to do nothing? I think you meant you weren't
required to do chores.
***My parents did me no favors by allowing me not to do those things.***
You weren't an unschooler. Unschooling parents are present with their
children in ways most parents never think to be. Unschooling parents
don't "require their children to do nothing" but instead help their
children do every possible thing they can. It's a big difference. It's
a difference in attitude, a difference in being with children and a
difference in living in the world.
***I would have much rather known how to do them than stumbled along
making huge mistakes before
I figured out how to do them. ***
There are not just the two choices of *not knowing* or *being forced*.
No one starts out knowing how to do laundry. In your home, you probably
show your children how to sort the clothes, how to set the water level
and temperature, how many clothes can fit in the machine, how much
detergent to use and how to turn on the machine. It's the same in an
unschooling home, the difference is time and choice.
The time is when a child is interested. The choice to be interested can
be our gift to them. Dylan does his own laundry and was shown how to
use the machine. But he doesn't do laundry because I require it; he
chooses to and the point here is that when people have real choices they
choose the things that are good for them. Knowing how to get clothes
clean is a good thing to know. This is what natural learning is. This
is unschooling; understanding that children will choose to do what humans
do.
***At least my kids will have the knowledge of how to
do them. Once they are adults if they choose not to then that is their
choice.***
It sounds like your saying all you care about is that you have fulfilled
your responsibility of showing them the right way and what they decide in
the future isn't important. I'm sure that's not what you meant.
I think it will be important in Dylan's adult life to have learned good
ways of living. Choosing to be clean will be a good thing. He might
choose to hire someone to do his laundry but the end result will be the
same, he'll be making a choice to be clean. The goal isn't that he
knows how to run a machine and then never mind if he doesn't do it later.
The goal is that he has a good life now and in the future.
Having choice is a genuine benefit to the human mind. Choosing to do
something helpful fulfills and creates connections in our mind to more
choices and better ways of being. Having to help can build resentment.
Deb Lewis
whether it be
work or laundry or finding food or whatever. ***
If you were single there would be things you would choose to do, same as
today. "Have to" is a trap closed tight on the mind and will squeeze the
joy right out of life. All of life is choice.
If you want to live, then you eat, but you can choose not to. If you
want clean clothes then you wash them or hire someone to wash them but
it's a choice. If you want money and some of the things it can get you
then you work, or steal or scam and it's all a choice.
***Trust me, ***
I trust you believe a certain way, but unschooling can show you a
different and better way to be with your kids.
***as a child who was "required" to do nothing ***
How can one be required to do nothing? I think you meant you weren't
required to do chores.
***My parents did me no favors by allowing me not to do those things.***
You weren't an unschooler. Unschooling parents are present with their
children in ways most parents never think to be. Unschooling parents
don't "require their children to do nothing" but instead help their
children do every possible thing they can. It's a big difference. It's
a difference in attitude, a difference in being with children and a
difference in living in the world.
***I would have much rather known how to do them than stumbled along
making huge mistakes before
I figured out how to do them. ***
There are not just the two choices of *not knowing* or *being forced*.
No one starts out knowing how to do laundry. In your home, you probably
show your children how to sort the clothes, how to set the water level
and temperature, how many clothes can fit in the machine, how much
detergent to use and how to turn on the machine. It's the same in an
unschooling home, the difference is time and choice.
The time is when a child is interested. The choice to be interested can
be our gift to them. Dylan does his own laundry and was shown how to
use the machine. But he doesn't do laundry because I require it; he
chooses to and the point here is that when people have real choices they
choose the things that are good for them. Knowing how to get clothes
clean is a good thing to know. This is what natural learning is. This
is unschooling; understanding that children will choose to do what humans
do.
***At least my kids will have the knowledge of how to
do them. Once they are adults if they choose not to then that is their
choice.***
It sounds like your saying all you care about is that you have fulfilled
your responsibility of showing them the right way and what they decide in
the future isn't important. I'm sure that's not what you meant.
I think it will be important in Dylan's adult life to have learned good
ways of living. Choosing to be clean will be a good thing. He might
choose to hire someone to do his laundry but the end result will be the
same, he'll be making a choice to be clean. The goal isn't that he
knows how to run a machine and then never mind if he doesn't do it later.
The goal is that he has a good life now and in the future.
Having choice is a genuine benefit to the human mind. Choosing to do
something helpful fulfills and creates connections in our mind to more
choices and better ways of being. Having to help can build resentment.
Deb Lewis
Sylvia Toyama
What's the difference between asking them to fold the laundry and requiring them to fold the laundry? I ask... they do. Very rarely do they say I don't want to but occasionally they say can I do it later & I say sure go ahead. Either way I am asking them to do it & they are doing it. I ask for their help when I'm busy or sick and they help. I think the only difference is the word you choose to use.
****
For me, the difference is whether it's an assigned 'chore' or just a request you make on a day-by-day basis. Asking for help with household tasks is appropriate, and it is the way kids learn those tasks. Requiring that one child does dishes and the other folds laundry, for example, is something I grew up with (except that my sibs never actually did their chores -- that was left to me) and vowed I'd never do to my kids.
Our kids do virtually anything I ask them to do, and remember on their own to do things like putting dirty dishes in the sink or dishwasher, put away their own folded laundry, water the dog when her dish is low/dry. They also like to help hang and fold laundry.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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****
For me, the difference is whether it's an assigned 'chore' or just a request you make on a day-by-day basis. Asking for help with household tasks is appropriate, and it is the way kids learn those tasks. Requiring that one child does dishes and the other folds laundry, for example, is something I grew up with (except that my sibs never actually did their chores -- that was left to me) and vowed I'd never do to my kids.
Our kids do virtually anything I ask them to do, and remember on their own to do things like putting dirty dishes in the sink or dishwasher, put away their own folded laundry, water the dog when her dish is low/dry. They also like to help hang and fold laundry.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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Ellen Christian
I'm not sure I'm understanding you. I knew my mother did laundry. I saw her carry it to the laundry room. I knew my mother made dinner as I ate it each night & saw her near the stove. That does not mean I knew how to do it or ever expressed any interest in doing it or having her show me how to do it.
My daughter has started asking questions about cooking so I show her & she helps me and she learns that way. My son hasn't & doesn't. My son has asked me about planting seeds so I show him & he helps me. My daughter doesn't & hasn't. How does that mean my son will learn how to do it if he never expresses an interest in it?
If Dylan chooses not to do his laundry & runs out of jeans, do you do them for him so he has jeans or do you let him run out of clothes to wear?
Ellen
Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
There are not just the two choices of *not knowing* or *being forced*.
No one starts out knowing how to do laundry. In your home, you probably
show your children how to sort the clothes, how to set the water level
and temperature, how many clothes can fit in the machine, how much
detergent to use and how to turn on the machine. It's the same in an
unschooling home, the difference is time and choice.
The time is when a child is interested. The choice to be interested can
be our gift to them. Dylan does his own laundry and was shown how to
use the machine. But he doesn't do laundry because I require it; he
chooses to and the point here is that when people have real choices they
choose the things that are good for them. Knowing how to get clothes
clean is a good thing to know. This is what natural learning is. This
is unschooling; understanding that children will choose to do what humans
do.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter has started asking questions about cooking so I show her & she helps me and she learns that way. My son hasn't & doesn't. My son has asked me about planting seeds so I show him & he helps me. My daughter doesn't & hasn't. How does that mean my son will learn how to do it if he never expresses an interest in it?
If Dylan chooses not to do his laundry & runs out of jeans, do you do them for him so he has jeans or do you let him run out of clothes to wear?
Ellen
Deb Lewis <ddzimlew@...> wrote:
There are not just the two choices of *not knowing* or *being forced*.
No one starts out knowing how to do laundry. In your home, you probably
show your children how to sort the clothes, how to set the water level
and temperature, how many clothes can fit in the machine, how much
detergent to use and how to turn on the machine. It's the same in an
unschooling home, the difference is time and choice.
The time is when a child is interested. The choice to be interested can
be our gift to them. Dylan does his own laundry and was shown how to
use the machine. But he doesn't do laundry because I require it; he
chooses to and the point here is that when people have real choices they
choose the things that are good for them. Knowing how to get clothes
clean is a good thing to know. This is what natural learning is. This
is unschooling; understanding that children will choose to do what humans
do.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
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Ellen Christian
They have nothing they are "assigned" to do. I ask for their help based on how busy/tired/sick, etc. I am. To me that's a chore. I think part of the problem is that some people here use different terms to mean different things.
Ellen
Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
For me, the difference is whether it's an assigned 'chore' or just a request you make on a day-by-day basis. Asking for help with household tasks is appropriate, and it is the way kids learn those tasks. Requiring that one child does dishes and the other folds laundry, for example, is something I grew up with (except that my sibs never actually did their chores -- that was left to me) and vowed I'd never do to my kids.
Our kids do virtually anything I ask them to do, and remember on their own to do things like putting dirty dishes in the sink or dishwasher, put away their own folded laundry, water the dog when her dish is low/dry. They also like to help hang and fold laundry.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
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---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
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Ellen
Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
For me, the difference is whether it's an assigned 'chore' or just a request you make on a day-by-day basis. Asking for help with household tasks is appropriate, and it is the way kids learn those tasks. Requiring that one child does dishes and the other folds laundry, for example, is something I grew up with (except that my sibs never actually did their chores -- that was left to me) and vowed I'd never do to my kids.
Our kids do virtually anything I ask them to do, and remember on their own to do things like putting dirty dishes in the sink or dishwasher, put away their own folded laundry, water the dog when her dish is low/dry. They also like to help hang and fold laundry.
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Visit your group "unschoolingbasics" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
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Sylvia Toyama
If Dylan chooses not to do his laundry & runs out of jeans, do you do them for him so he has jeans or do you let him run out of clothes to wear?
*****
My kids don't do their own laundry yet, but they are very good about getting it into their hampers. If I go to do laundry and the hamper is empty, then clothes don't get washed. If a child wants to wear something that needs to be washed, and asks me to wash it or to help him wash it, no biggie, I'd do it then.
As to learning how to cook, I can't imagine a child who isn't interested in how to cook. All three of my boys have asked to help with cooking, at least the fun parts. I can't remember the last time I flipped most of the pancakes at breakfast time!
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
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*****
My kids don't do their own laundry yet, but they are very good about getting it into their hampers. If I go to do laundry and the hamper is empty, then clothes don't get washed. If a child wants to wear something that needs to be washed, and asks me to wash it or to help him wash it, no biggie, I'd do it then.
As to learning how to cook, I can't imagine a child who isn't interested in how to cook. All three of my boys have asked to help with cooking, at least the fun parts. I can't remember the last time I flipped most of the pancakes at breakfast time!
Sylvia
Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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Sylvia Toyama
Yep, the words can mean different things. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the word chore in any but an assigned context. When I ask for help, I call it that. I never call my own household tasks chores, even when I do them. For me, the word chore carries way too much baggage, and sucks all the joy out of any activity.
Sylvia
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Sylvia
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Ellen Christian
Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
I never call my own household tasks chores, even when I do them.
LOL I call my housework chores... I think it comes from Flylady.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I never call my own household tasks chores, even when I do them.
LOL I call my housework chores... I think it comes from Flylady.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
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Ren Allen
"That does not mean I knew how to do it or ever
expressed any interest in doing it or having her show me how to do it."
I've NEVER met a child that shows zero interest in some of the daily
things around the house. A parent can turn off that interest fairly
young though, by doing for the child or stopping them all the time.
How hard are household tasks anyway?? It takes a few minutes to learn
how to do ANY of them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
expressed any interest in doing it or having her show me how to do it."
I've NEVER met a child that shows zero interest in some of the daily
things around the house. A parent can turn off that interest fairly
young though, by doing for the child or stopping them all the time.
How hard are household tasks anyway?? It takes a few minutes to learn
how to do ANY of them.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
"My kids don't do their own laundry yet, but they are very good about
getting
it into their hampers. "
I do most of the laundry here too. You know how easy it is to shout
"I'm collecting laundry, please bring it all out!!" when I'm ready to
wash? No big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
getting
it into their hampers. "
I do most of the laundry here too. You know how easy it is to shout
"I'm collecting laundry, please bring it all out!!" when I'm ready to
wash? No big deal.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
" I ask for their help based on how
busy/tired/sick, etc. I am. "
But earlier you said they were REQUIRED to help. That is very
different than asking for help based on true need.
There's also a lot of assumption that unless forced to do these
things, kids won't learn how to do basic household tasks. Why would
learning about household tasks be any different than reading, writing
or anything else a child learns? In their own time, in their own way.....
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
busy/tired/sick, etc. I am. "
But earlier you said they were REQUIRED to help. That is very
different than asking for help based on true need.
There's also a lot of assumption that unless forced to do these
things, kids won't learn how to do basic household tasks. Why would
learning about household tasks be any different than reading, writing
or anything else a child learns? In their own time, in their own way.....
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
LOL I call my housework chores... I think it comes from Flylady.
****
hmm, well maybe that's why the flylady site gave me the creeps. I've visited the site a few times, because I know people who swear by Flylady. To me, it sounded a little OCD to dress all the way to shoes (I rarely wear shoes if I can avoid it) every morning, before even doing any housework. I was looking for ideas on how to prioritize my housework, not a regimen for getting dressed every day..... Different strokes for everyone, I guess, but the flylady is not for me! <g>
Sylvia, Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
****
hmm, well maybe that's why the flylady site gave me the creeps. I've visited the site a few times, because I know people who swear by Flylady. To me, it sounded a little OCD to dress all the way to shoes (I rarely wear shoes if I can avoid it) every morning, before even doing any housework. I was looking for ideas on how to prioritize my housework, not a regimen for getting dressed every day..... Different strokes for everyone, I guess, but the flylady is not for me! <g>
Sylvia, Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ellen Christian
Maybe a better word would have been I expect them to help when asked. If my husband asked me to help him with something, I would and he would do the same if I asked him. I guess I see it the same way for the kids... if I ask, I expect to be helped.
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote: " I ask for their help based on how
busy/tired/sick, etc. I am. "
But earlier you said they were REQUIRED to help. That is very
different than asking for help based on true need.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen <starsuncloud@...> wrote: " I ask for their help based on how
busy/tired/sick, etc. I am. "
But earlier you said they were REQUIRED to help. That is very
different than asking for help based on true need.
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
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Sylvia Toyama
I do most of the laundry here too. You know how easy it is to shout "I'm collecting laundry, please bring it all out!!" when I'm ready to wash? No big deal
*****
That's usually what I do, too. Right now, I'm without a washer and going to the laundromat, so I make a point of asking everyone if they need something washed. We only have hampers because the boys (Andy especially) like the convenience of one in each room. My mil started it when she came 5 yrs ago to run my house while i was on bedrest, and it continues today. Except for dh, who still drops his socks anywhere he happens to be -- I've teased him that it's his part of his quiet rebellion against his Mom. LOL
Sylvia, Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
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*****
That's usually what I do, too. Right now, I'm without a washer and going to the laundromat, so I make a point of asking everyone if they need something washed. We only have hampers because the boys (Andy especially) like the convenience of one in each room. My mil started it when she came 5 yrs ago to run my house while i was on bedrest, and it continues today. Except for dh, who still drops his socks anywhere he happens to be -- I've teased him that it's his part of his quiet rebellion against his Mom. LOL
Sylvia, Mom to
Will, 21 and out on his own
Andy, almost 10 and Dan, 5
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
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Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/15/06, Ellen Christian <scentednights2002@...> wrote:
that they can say no (or yes). Requiring that they help implies that they
do not have a choice to say no (or yes). Two is about that choice. When
you "ask" your children to do a task, do they feel that they have the choice
to say no? What would your reaction be if you asked someone to unload the
dishes and they said no? Would you get angry? Would you be disappointed?
Would you punish them? Send them to their rooms? Demand that they do it
anyway?
As much of a problem as I have with living with messes, I realize that it is
MY problem. They are content to live the way that they are living at this
point in their lives. 2 years ago I stopped requiring my kids to help. I
didn't announce it by standing on a chair and shouting, "YOU NO LONGER HAVE
TO DO CHORES." I just quit "asking" them to do it. I realized that my
children felt that they didn't have a choice to say no when I "asked" them
to do something. I'm not sure why parents who don't give their children a
choice ask their children to do things. Why not just tell them, "Do the
dishes." I've noticed that parents who "ask" their children to do something
and the child exercises their free will to not do that thing will then say,
"I ASKED you to do that and you disobeyed me." Hmmmm. Asking equates to
requirement.
Someone on this list challenged me to quit making them do chores. So I
did. And guess what? Now when I DO need their help they are much more
inclined to assist. The other day I was cooking and I asked one of my
children if she could run back and get something for me out of one of the
bedrooms. She asked if she could wait for a commercial and I said, "Don't
worry. I'll go get it. I thought I heard you walking down the hall."
(Which I did - must have heard something else). I went and got it myself.
I needed that thing right then and so I got what I was cooking stirred and
went and got what I needed. I grew up in a family that if my mom had
"asked" me to go get her something she meant right now, drop everything that
you are doing no matter how important it is and do it pronto. Even giving a
child a delay still does not give a child a choice. Giving them permission
to do a task later still means you are expecting that they are going to do
that task.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Two things I noticed. One is wording. Asking them to do something implies
> What's the difference between asking them to fold the laundry and
> requiring them to fold the laundry? I ask... they do.
that they can say no (or yes). Requiring that they help implies that they
do not have a choice to say no (or yes). Two is about that choice. When
you "ask" your children to do a task, do they feel that they have the choice
to say no? What would your reaction be if you asked someone to unload the
dishes and they said no? Would you get angry? Would you be disappointed?
Would you punish them? Send them to their rooms? Demand that they do it
anyway?
As much of a problem as I have with living with messes, I realize that it is
MY problem. They are content to live the way that they are living at this
point in their lives. 2 years ago I stopped requiring my kids to help. I
didn't announce it by standing on a chair and shouting, "YOU NO LONGER HAVE
TO DO CHORES." I just quit "asking" them to do it. I realized that my
children felt that they didn't have a choice to say no when I "asked" them
to do something. I'm not sure why parents who don't give their children a
choice ask their children to do things. Why not just tell them, "Do the
dishes." I've noticed that parents who "ask" their children to do something
and the child exercises their free will to not do that thing will then say,
"I ASKED you to do that and you disobeyed me." Hmmmm. Asking equates to
requirement.
Someone on this list challenged me to quit making them do chores. So I
did. And guess what? Now when I DO need their help they are much more
inclined to assist. The other day I was cooking and I asked one of my
children if she could run back and get something for me out of one of the
bedrooms. She asked if she could wait for a commercial and I said, "Don't
worry. I'll go get it. I thought I heard you walking down the hall."
(Which I did - must have heard something else). I went and got it myself.
I needed that thing right then and so I got what I was cooking stirred and
went and got what I needed. I grew up in a family that if my mom had
"asked" me to go get her something she meant right now, drop everything that
you are doing no matter how important it is and do it pronto. Even giving a
child a delay still does not give a child a choice. Giving them permission
to do a task later still means you are expecting that they are going to do
that task.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trektheory
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama
<sylgt04@...> wrote:
with cooking, at least the fun parts. I can't remember the last
time I flipped most of the pancakes at breakfast time!
in the mood) has never shown any interest in it. The finished
product, yes. He would much rather have the food magically apppear
before him. He is 14, and still really doesn't care about cooking.
He does know how to do a few things, because there have been times
of necessity. (When I was totally unable to cook, clean, tie my
shoes, cut my food... carpal tunnel ain't for sissies!) He sorta
kinda helped his dad with some of this, but that was about it.
I will say, though -- he is very sweet and solicitious. He would be
much more likely to do things if he thinks I need it.
Linda
<sylgt04@...> wrote:
>interested in how to cook. All three of my boys have asked to help
> As to learning how to cook, I can't imagine a child who isn't
with cooking, at least the fun parts. I can't remember the last
time I flipped most of the pancakes at breakfast time!
>Meet my son, then. He, despite my obvious love of cooking(when I'm
> Sylvia
>
in the mood) has never shown any interest in it. The finished
product, yes. He would much rather have the food magically apppear
before him. He is 14, and still really doesn't care about cooking.
He does know how to do a few things, because there have been times
of necessity. (When I was totally unable to cook, clean, tie my
shoes, cut my food... carpal tunnel ain't for sissies!) He sorta
kinda helped his dad with some of this, but that was about it.
I will say, though -- he is very sweet and solicitious. He would be
much more likely to do things if he thinks I need it.
Linda
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/15/06, Ellen Christian <scentednights2002@...> wrote:
dh's reaction be if his expectations were not met? Do you also meet your
children's expectations? If your child asks you to do something and you
say, "No" or "Not now" what happens?
My children know two things when I ask them to do something. 1. That they
have the option to say no (and have). 2. That if I am asking them to do
something I could really use their help, but that they still have the option
of saying no.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>What is your reaction of your expectations are not met? What would your
> Maybe a better word would have been I expect them to help when asked. If
> my husband asked me to help him with something, I would and he would do the
> same if I asked him. I guess I see it the same way for the kids... if I ask,
> I expect to be helped.
dh's reaction be if his expectations were not met? Do you also meet your
children's expectations? If your child asks you to do something and you
say, "No" or "Not now" what happens?
My children know two things when I ask them to do something. 1. That they
have the option to say no (and have). 2. That if I am asking them to do
something I could really use their help, but that they still have the option
of saying no.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/15/06, trektheory <trektheory@...> wrote:
possess or desires to posess. :) I bet though, that your son would be able
to keep himself alive were he in a situation where he had to. And who
knows, he may eventually move out on his own and discover that living off
frozen pizzas and ramen noodles isn't very exciting and that eating out is
expensive and decide that cooking can be pleasurable (or he will find a
partner who can cook LOL!)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Not everyone enjoys cooking. It's a pleasure skill that not everyone
> He is 14, and still really doesn't care about cooking.
> He does know how to do a few things, because there have been times
> of necessity. (When I was totally unable to cook, clean, tie my
> shoes, cut my food... carpal tunnel ain't for sissies!) He sorta
> kinda helped his dad with some of this, but that was about it.
possess or desires to posess. :) I bet though, that your son would be able
to keep himself alive were he in a situation where he had to. And who
knows, he may eventually move out on his own and discover that living off
frozen pizzas and ramen noodles isn't very exciting and that eating out is
expensive and decide that cooking can be pleasurable (or he will find a
partner who can cook LOL!)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]