chores, cleaning, etc
Maisha Khalfani
So...I've been to Sandra's site, Joyce's site, Ren's site, and Danielle's site....and I still go to each one at least twice a week! LOL. Here's my issue:
I can understand not forcing children to do chores. As it is, I've started asking them for help and working REALLY HARD to make it fun. BUT....Right now the kids' room is a total mess. Their clothes are all over the floor, their toys are everywhere. Now I could "make" them clean up their room...but I'm really working to move toward more mindful and gentle parenting. So how can I help myself with this situation?
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can understand not forcing children to do chores. As it is, I've started asking them for help and working REALLY HARD to make it fun. BUT....Right now the kids' room is a total mess. Their clothes are all over the floor, their toys are everywhere. Now I could "make" them clean up their room...but I'm really working to move toward more mindful and gentle parenting. So how can I help myself with this situation?
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
April Morris
My boys' room was a mess and very over-whelming-to them and me-so a couple
of weeks ago we tackled it. I made sure I picked a day where we had lots of
time and I was in a good frame of mind (I don't really like to clean, so
this is important to me). We had a great book on tape we've been listening
to so we brought that in from the car. It's a book we've listened to before
(Eragon) but are re-"reading" before the movie comes out in the fall.
Because we've heard it before, we could dialog as needed about things
without stopping the tape every time. The boys didn't have to help, but
wanted to be in there with the story. They helped most of the time but took
more breaks than I did. We had a great time and conquered the mess. I have
also been known to 'surprise' my kids with the gift of a clean room. If I
was going to do it on my own, I'd put in a good movie or a book I wanted to
listen to but haven't had time for. Or, if they really didn't care about the
mess I might just ignore it. In our recent case, the boys' wanted their room
clean but needed help.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
of weeks ago we tackled it. I made sure I picked a day where we had lots of
time and I was in a good frame of mind (I don't really like to clean, so
this is important to me). We had a great book on tape we've been listening
to so we brought that in from the car. It's a book we've listened to before
(Eragon) but are re-"reading" before the movie comes out in the fall.
Because we've heard it before, we could dialog as needed about things
without stopping the tape every time. The boys didn't have to help, but
wanted to be in there with the story. They helped most of the time but took
more breaks than I did. We had a great time and conquered the mess. I have
also been known to 'surprise' my kids with the gift of a clean room. If I
was going to do it on my own, I'd put in a good movie or a book I wanted to
listen to but haven't had time for. Or, if they really didn't care about the
mess I might just ignore it. In our recent case, the boys' wanted their room
clean but needed help.
~April
Mom to Kate-19, Lisa-17, Karl-14, & Ben-10.
*REACH Homeschool Grp, an inclusive group in Oakland County
http://www.reachhomeschool.com
* Michigan Unschoolers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michigan_unschoolers/
*Check out Chuck's art www.artkunst23.com
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Gandalf the Grey
On 4/9/06, Maisha Khalfani <earthspirit393@...> wrote:
>
> So...I've been to Sandra's site, Joyce's site, Ren's site, and Danielle's
> site....and I still go to each one at least twice a week! LOL. Here's my
> issue:
>
> I can understand not forcing children to do chores. As it is, I've
> started asking them for help and working REALLY HARD to make it
> fun. BUT....Right now the kids' room is a total mess. Their clothes are
> all over the floor, their toys are everywhere. Now I could "make" them
> clean up their room...but I'm really working to move toward more mindful and
> gentle parenting. So how can I help myself with this situation?
>
> Maisha
> http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<
> http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
> "Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and
> affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is
> more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
> ~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
--- In [email protected], "Maisha Khalfani"
<earthspirit393@...> wrote:
seems like an oxymoron to me. Is it possible that you've been
*trying* too hard to make it fun, and they've been sort of seeing
through your charade, if you will, and not buying into it? Maybe it's
just semantics. I don't know.
than they do and wait for them to ask for your help. Or, you could
offer your help (bearing in mind that a "no, thanks" response should
be acceptable to you). Having a clean room may just not be important
to them. Can you be okay with that?
We're getting ready to pull up stakes, sell our wee house, and move.
My 11-year-old son really wants to do this move very much (we're
actually doing it because there's something he wants to live closer
to, and it makes a great deal of sense). He's motivated to clean his
room and keep it clean, BUT it's important to him, and that's why he
does it. If it weren't, I would take care of it by myself. When I do
that, he *usually* helps me, but he's not required to, and things are
certainly a lot more peaceful around this issue than they were when I
was growing up!
Just some thoughts.
~Marji (who should be working, but I'm doing everything I can to avoid
it!)
<earthspirit393@...> wrote:
>I might be splitting hairs here, but that previous sentence really
> I can understand not forcing children to do chores. As it is, I've
> started asking them for help and working REALLY HARD to make it
> fun.
seems like an oxymoron to me. Is it possible that you've been
*trying* too hard to make it fun, and they've been sort of seeing
through your charade, if you will, and not buying into it? Maybe it's
just semantics. I don't know.
> BUT....Right now the kids' room is a total mess. Their clothes areOne thing you could do is try not to care more about their space(s)
> all over the floor, their toys are everywhere. Now I could "make"
> them clean up their room...but I'm really working to move toward
> more mindful and gentle parenting. So how can I help myself with
> this situation?
than they do and wait for them to ask for your help. Or, you could
offer your help (bearing in mind that a "no, thanks" response should
be acceptable to you). Having a clean room may just not be important
to them. Can you be okay with that?
We're getting ready to pull up stakes, sell our wee house, and move.
My 11-year-old son really wants to do this move very much (we're
actually doing it because there's something he wants to live closer
to, and it makes a great deal of sense). He's motivated to clean his
room and keep it clean, BUT it's important to him, and that's why he
does it. If it weren't, I would take care of it by myself. When I do
that, he *usually* helps me, but he's not required to, and things are
certainly a lot more peaceful around this issue than they were when I
was growing up!
Just some thoughts.
~Marji (who should be working, but I'm doing everything I can to avoid
it!)
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/9/06, Maisha Khalfani <earthspirit393@...> wrote:
Sometimes Mary Elayne and I want to run away from home because no one else
picks up after themselves. Mary Elayne likes her room neat and orderly.
She likes to know where her stuff is and she *does* know where her stuff
is. She makes her bed because she likes it neat. I'm pretty much the same
way. I know where *my* stuff is (or at least where I put it) but it tends
to get burried under everyone else's crap! I hate it. I hate cleaning up
after others. I relish the day when I actually live by myself so only my
stuff is around. I'm serious. I just can't stand clutter.
I haven't found a working solution yet other than me cleaning constantly and
I loathe that as well since I know that if it were just me I wouldn't need
to clean all the time. The kids will help when I ask, but they don't like
having to clean up messes that they feel aren't theirs.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Maisha, if I find out, I'll let you know. I live with slobs. 3 of them.
> Now I could "make" them clean up their room...but I'm really working to
> move toward more mindful and gentle parenting. So how can I help myself
> with this situation?
Sometimes Mary Elayne and I want to run away from home because no one else
picks up after themselves. Mary Elayne likes her room neat and orderly.
She likes to know where her stuff is and she *does* know where her stuff
is. She makes her bed because she likes it neat. I'm pretty much the same
way. I know where *my* stuff is (or at least where I put it) but it tends
to get burried under everyone else's crap! I hate it. I hate cleaning up
after others. I relish the day when I actually live by myself so only my
stuff is around. I'm serious. I just can't stand clutter.
I haven't found a working solution yet other than me cleaning constantly and
I loathe that as well since I know that if it were just me I wouldn't need
to clean all the time. The kids will help when I ask, but they don't like
having to clean up messes that they feel aren't theirs.
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
I just wish I lived closer. I read your blog and see so many things
similar....same movies and music anyway, and I think we're pretty
close on the pathway. Dh and I are working on the chores issue. The
kids have it down, it's us who are having the trouble LOL!
The first step for me was something I read on Sandra's site, asking
myself *why* it mattered so much, and then also realizing that it was
*my* problem, not the kids. If it's their space, and their stuff, why
does it matter. For us there was a real issue of toddlers getting
into choke hazards, people stepping on stuff and getting hurt, people
getting feelings hurt when something got broken. So the first thing
we did was ask the kids how we could help them keep their stuff from
getting messed up. My girls' wisdom blew me away..."Mama, it's hard
to put stuff away when there is no where to put it". Duh ma! So we
made bookshelves (okay, point of honesty, my dad made bookshelves for
the girls, we did the build-ins in Breanna's room) We bought bins at
walmart to throw stuff in. We stopped fussing about how things were
hung up, or how their clothes were folded, and just let them do what
they needed to. We don't see it, it's done, and they are more willing
to help.
I ask them if it's alright to put such and so away, because often the
blocks that are *just* sitting there are actually a stage for polly
pockets or a coliseum for dinosaurs, lego's are sorted a special way,
dolls are waiting for the next part of the play they've written. And
if they are done with it, a lot of the time they'll get up to help me
put it away...esp if I say, "ya know, this is bothering ME, do you
mind helping me put this away?", and I'm willing to say yes when they
ask for help. Do I want my kids to just remember me being a grump
about dishes and laundry and toys, or do I want them to say my mom
was my mentor?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
similar....same movies and music anyway, and I think we're pretty
close on the pathway. Dh and I are working on the chores issue. The
kids have it down, it's us who are having the trouble LOL!
The first step for me was something I read on Sandra's site, asking
myself *why* it mattered so much, and then also realizing that it was
*my* problem, not the kids. If it's their space, and their stuff, why
does it matter. For us there was a real issue of toddlers getting
into choke hazards, people stepping on stuff and getting hurt, people
getting feelings hurt when something got broken. So the first thing
we did was ask the kids how we could help them keep their stuff from
getting messed up. My girls' wisdom blew me away..."Mama, it's hard
to put stuff away when there is no where to put it". Duh ma! So we
made bookshelves (okay, point of honesty, my dad made bookshelves for
the girls, we did the build-ins in Breanna's room) We bought bins at
walmart to throw stuff in. We stopped fussing about how things were
hung up, or how their clothes were folded, and just let them do what
they needed to. We don't see it, it's done, and they are more willing
to help.
I ask them if it's alright to put such and so away, because often the
blocks that are *just* sitting there are actually a stage for polly
pockets or a coliseum for dinosaurs, lego's are sorted a special way,
dolls are waiting for the next part of the play they've written. And
if they are done with it, a lot of the time they'll get up to help me
put it away...esp if I say, "ya know, this is bothering ME, do you
mind helping me put this away?", and I'm willing to say yes when they
ask for help. Do I want my kids to just remember me being a grump
about dishes and laundry and toys, or do I want them to say my mom
was my mentor?
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:06 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:
> So...I've been to Sandra's site, Joyce's site, Ren's site, and
> Danielle's site....and I still go to each one at least twice a
> week! LOL. Here's my issue:
>
> I can understand not forcing children to do chores. As it is, I've
> started asking them for help and working REALLY HARD to make it
> fun. BUT....Right now the kids' room is a total mess. Their
> clothes are all over the floor, their toys are everywhere. Now I
> could "make" them clean up their room...but I'm really working to
> move toward more mindful and gentle parenting. So how can I help
> myself with this situation?
[email protected]
>>I relish the day when I actually live by myself so only mystuff is around. I'm serious. I just can't stand clutter.>>
Be careful what you wish for. I know it's hard sometimes to adapt to other people's living habits, but what would it really feel like if you were suddenly alone? I know this is not what you meant, but what if your family was suddenly gone? It happens. All too frequently. These are the things I tell myself when I feel overwhelmed by things like clutter. If one of them died tomorrow, I would surely cherish each and every mess they left behind. In the days and weeks that followed, I would miss the clothes on the floor, the dirty towels in the bathroom and the extra dishes in the sink. Those are all signs that a family lives here. It's good to keep perspective.
--
~Mary
http://zenmommasgarden.blogspot.com/
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Pampered Chef Michelle" <pamperedmichelle@...>
Maisha Khalfani
Thanks April. I think I'll blast some music and just start cleaning. If they want to help they'll come and help. I think I just have to get past the feeling of being "the maid". Do any of you have trouble with that?
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
----- Original Message -----
From: April Morris<mailto:klkb624@...>
My boys' room was a mess and very over-whelming-to them and me-so a couple
of weeks ago we tackled it. I made sure I picked a day where we had lots of
time and I was in a good frame of mind (I don't really like to clean, so
this is important to me).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
<<I might be splitting hairs here, but that previous sentence really
seems like an oxymoron to me. Is it possible that you've been
*trying* too hard to make it fun, and they've been sort of seeing
through your charade, if you will, and not buying into it? Maybe it's
just semantics. I don't know.>>
LOL - when I say I'm trying hard I mean me myself - not trying to make it fun for the kids. Now cleaning is fun for me - it's just not fun for me to clean up after someone else. So I have to work hard to get myself in the frame of mind to make cleaning their room fun for me if they aren't willing to help out.
<<One thing you could do is try not to care more about their space(s)
than they do and wait for them to ask for your help. Or, you could
offer your help (bearing in mind that a "no, thanks" response should
be acceptable to you). Having a clean room may just not be important
to them. Can you be okay with that?>>
Honestly, I'm not okay with a messy room. But I can learn to be. The problem is that three (soon to be 4) children share a room. They are 7, 6, 3, and 1. My 6 yr old son has a difficult time with the room being messy. It causes him alot of distress, which in turn, distresses the house. He's a very high-strung boy and having things out of place causes him some trauma.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
seems like an oxymoron to me. Is it possible that you've been
*trying* too hard to make it fun, and they've been sort of seeing
through your charade, if you will, and not buying into it? Maybe it's
just semantics. I don't know.>>
LOL - when I say I'm trying hard I mean me myself - not trying to make it fun for the kids. Now cleaning is fun for me - it's just not fun for me to clean up after someone else. So I have to work hard to get myself in the frame of mind to make cleaning their room fun for me if they aren't willing to help out.
<<One thing you could do is try not to care more about their space(s)
than they do and wait for them to ask for your help. Or, you could
offer your help (bearing in mind that a "no, thanks" response should
be acceptable to you). Having a clean room may just not be important
to them. Can you be okay with that?>>
Honestly, I'm not okay with a messy room. But I can learn to be. The problem is that three (soon to be 4) children share a room. They are 7, 6, 3, and 1. My 6 yr old son has a difficult time with the room being messy. It causes him alot of distress, which in turn, distresses the house. He's a very high-strung boy and having things out of place causes him some trauma.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
<<I know where *my* stuff is (or at least where I put it) but it tends
to get burried under everyone else's crap! I hate it. I hate cleaning up
after others. I relish the day when I actually live by myself so only my
stuff is around. I'm serious. I just can't stand clutter.>>
UGH!!! Clutter drives me crazy!!! LOL. I mean, if we are going to teach our children to be true to themselves, then I have to be true to myself true, right? And I just can't stand the clutter, or cleaning pee from around the toilet, or cleaning up spill after spill after spill. LOL. By the end of the day I'm deflated and exhausted. I at least make an effort to keep the living room clean because that's the common area of our apartment. I don't want to spend a lot of my day cleaning. The catch 22 is that if I don't spend a lot of the day cleaning my apartment becomes a hazard for my 1 yr old. There has to be a way to handle this with some grace and gentle mindful parenting.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to get burried under everyone else's crap! I hate it. I hate cleaning up
after others. I relish the day when I actually live by myself so only my
stuff is around. I'm serious. I just can't stand clutter.>>
UGH!!! Clutter drives me crazy!!! LOL. I mean, if we are going to teach our children to be true to themselves, then I have to be true to myself true, right? And I just can't stand the clutter, or cleaning pee from around the toilet, or cleaning up spill after spill after spill. LOL. By the end of the day I'm deflated and exhausted. I at least make an effort to keep the living room clean because that's the common area of our apartment. I don't want to spend a lot of my day cleaning. The catch 22 is that if I don't spend a lot of the day cleaning my apartment becomes a hazard for my 1 yr old. There has to be a way to handle this with some grace and gentle mindful parenting.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
Thanks Melissa. I think my kids just like to take their stuff out and not put it back. I gotcha. But then my daughter will complain that one of her brothers is playing with her toys and she doesn't want them to. I told her the best way to deal with that is to put her toys in her closet. But if they are on the floor then her brothers will assume that they toys is available to play with. Since they are all sharing a room that's the best compromise that I can come up with so that personal toys are respected, and communal toys get played with. I'm open to suggestions.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
----- Original Message -----
From: Melissa<mailto:autismhelp@...>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 9:27 PM
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: chores, cleaning, etc
I just wish I lived closer. I read your blog and see so many things
similar....same movies and music anyway, and I think we're pretty
close on the pathway. Dh and I are working on the chores issue. The
kids have it down, it's us who are having the trouble LOL!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 10, 2006, at 12:22 AM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:
See the desire for a clean house separate from the fact that you live
with people who create messes because they're interfering with each
other. Seeing the people as the cause of your lack of clean house
will damage your relationship with them.
You have messes because you're surrounded by a family who love
you :-) Choosing to have kids is like choosing to have an indoor cat.
The *cat* is not the cause of you having to clean the litter box.
Your choice to have an indoor cat is why the litter box needs cleaned.
Same with kids :-)
If keeping the house orderly is overwhelming, then rethink why it's
getting messy or let go. (It does sound like that's the direction
you're heading! Just wanted to point out the roadblock -- or mental
stumbling block -- you've erecting between you and getting there.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I mean, if we are going to teach our children to be true toIt will help to separate those two.
> themselves, then I have to be true to myself true, right? And I
> just can't stand the clutter, or cleaning pee from around the
> toilet, or cleaning up spill after spill after spill.
See the desire for a clean house separate from the fact that you live
with people who create messes because they're interfering with each
other. Seeing the people as the cause of your lack of clean house
will damage your relationship with them.
You have messes because you're surrounded by a family who love
you :-) Choosing to have kids is like choosing to have an indoor cat.
The *cat* is not the cause of you having to clean the litter box.
Your choice to have an indoor cat is why the litter box needs cleaned.
Same with kids :-)
If keeping the house orderly is overwhelming, then rethink why it's
getting messy or let go. (It does sound like that's the direction
you're heading! Just wanted to point out the roadblock -- or mental
stumbling block -- you've erecting between you and getting there.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 9, 2006, at 5:06 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:
*Do* ask them if they don't mind you cleaning. It's their room.
*Don't* expect them to appreciate it. It's something you're doing for
you. You can see it as a gift of temporary clean but don't *expect*
them to appreciate it or maintain it. (They probably will appreciate
it but the chore of maintaining it just isn't worth it to them yet.)
IT's a gift you want to give, not something they necessarily want.
And try to figure out ways to make it easier to straighten. Can you
find storage areas outside their room for some things? Could you move
their clothes somewhere else? Your room? Think outside the box :-)
Kids rooms don't need to be the storage place for all they own. Can
you pull a couch away from a wall and use the space behind it as a
place for bins or dressers?
Some people have created one room for the whole family to sleep in
and use other room(s) for play areas, craft rooms, or whatever. Some
people keep clothes stored in the laundry room and that's where
everyone takes off and puts on their clothes. (Those aren't
suggestions of what to do, but ideas on how others have broken
through the box of thinking that things need to be a certain way.)
It sounds like you're living in a very tiny place but questioning why
you have things set up the way you do, why you've made the choices
you have can help you think more creatively. Too often we end up
making choices because that's just the way they're done when really
some other choice might make a lot more sense.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Now I could "make" them clean up their room...but I'm reallySee it as something you want done and do it yourself.
> working to move toward more mindful and gentle parenting. So how
> can I help myself with this situation?
*Do* ask them if they don't mind you cleaning. It's their room.
*Don't* expect them to appreciate it. It's something you're doing for
you. You can see it as a gift of temporary clean but don't *expect*
them to appreciate it or maintain it. (They probably will appreciate
it but the chore of maintaining it just isn't worth it to them yet.)
IT's a gift you want to give, not something they necessarily want.
And try to figure out ways to make it easier to straighten. Can you
find storage areas outside their room for some things? Could you move
their clothes somewhere else? Your room? Think outside the box :-)
Kids rooms don't need to be the storage place for all they own. Can
you pull a couch away from a wall and use the space behind it as a
place for bins or dressers?
Some people have created one room for the whole family to sleep in
and use other room(s) for play areas, craft rooms, or whatever. Some
people keep clothes stored in the laundry room and that's where
everyone takes off and puts on their clothes. (Those aren't
suggestions of what to do, but ideas on how others have broken
through the box of thinking that things need to be a certain way.)
It sounds like you're living in a very tiny place but questioning why
you have things set up the way you do, why you've made the choices
you have can help you think more creatively. Too often we end up
making choices because that's just the way they're done when really
some other choice might make a lot more sense.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 9, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Pampered Chef Michelle wrote:
are always very close to where they're used. *I* understand the
system even if it looks like chaos to others. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Mary Elayne likes her room neat and orderly.Ha! I know where my stuff is and I'm not neat and orderly ;-) Things
> She likes to know where her stuff is
are always very close to where they're used. *I* understand the
system even if it looks like chaos to others. :-)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***I know where *my* stuff is (or at least where I put it) but it tends
to get buried under everyone else's crap! ***
I noticed that you have stuff but everyone else has crap. If you tried
to see their things as having the same value as your things you might
feel better about helping them keep it tidier.
Is there some reason you feel you're more worthy of having stuff than
they are?
*** I hate cleaning up after others. ***
Do you know why? Did you have to clean when you were a kid? Do you have
a high standard that others aren't interested in meeting and so you think
you "have to" clean to that standard? If you knew why it irks you you
might find ways to live more peacefully with lifes disorderliness. <g>
***but they don't like having to clean up messes that they feel aren't
theirs.***
It's kind of easy to see where they get that. <G>
You can change your standard and not clean constantly.
You can change your attitude and not view your family's things as "crap."
(then you won't have "crap" to clean up.)
You can hire someone to clean for you.
You can leave and never go back.
You have choices but your post seemed grumpy, as if you were feeling like
a person who has no choice but to clean up after others.
I hope you're feeling better now.
I have one son who is thirteen. He does all his own laundry, but
sometimes I get to help him fold his clean clothes. I *like* looking at
his big shirts now and thinking about all those tiny baby clothes he used
to fit into. I like how his socks are shaped like his feet.<g> I like
that he's still here with me and I can still help him.
Deb Lewis
to get buried under everyone else's crap! ***
I noticed that you have stuff but everyone else has crap. If you tried
to see their things as having the same value as your things you might
feel better about helping them keep it tidier.
Is there some reason you feel you're more worthy of having stuff than
they are?
*** I hate cleaning up after others. ***
Do you know why? Did you have to clean when you were a kid? Do you have
a high standard that others aren't interested in meeting and so you think
you "have to" clean to that standard? If you knew why it irks you you
might find ways to live more peacefully with lifes disorderliness. <g>
***but they don't like having to clean up messes that they feel aren't
theirs.***
It's kind of easy to see where they get that. <G>
You can change your standard and not clean constantly.
You can change your attitude and not view your family's things as "crap."
(then you won't have "crap" to clean up.)
You can hire someone to clean for you.
You can leave and never go back.
You have choices but your post seemed grumpy, as if you were feeling like
a person who has no choice but to clean up after others.
I hope you're feeling better now.
I have one son who is thirteen. He does all his own laundry, but
sometimes I get to help him fold his clean clothes. I *like* looking at
his big shirts now and thinking about all those tiny baby clothes he used
to fit into. I like how his socks are shaped like his feet.<g> I like
that he's still here with me and I can still help him.
Deb Lewis
m n
Maisha,
If you require more order than those you live with,
then usually you'll be doing more cleaning/clearing
than others. That's hard at times, but just part of
being who you are.
Others here have given you many ideas about
reorganizing your space and how you can make it more
fun to get things put away. All those are good ideas.
There are many good books on the topic of keeping
clutter under some kind of control that might help
too.
However I also think it's important to set basic
standards around the house. These would vary based on
the family style and everyone's needs. I draw the line
at safety and not being able to find things. That
means if things are starting to stack up on the floor
to where they're in the way or if my son can't find
things and is frequently asking for help, then
organizing is needed. I help him and model some ways
to keep things where they're easy to find. Lots of
organizing is made up of simple habits that make life
much easier in the long run. Learning these is a very
helpful skill.
Also, if you have a baby or someone with allergies to
dust, then it's more impt to keep things cleaner.
Again I'm not talking about being obsessive.
Do you do any kind of family meeting where you can
discuss issues like this? Where perhaps the kids can
help figure out ways to keep things more organized or
safer for the baby? Including everyone in planning
helps them feel more invested in doing the work
required.
I do feel for you and your son who can't stand
clutter. Too much stuff everywhere is really
distracting and unpleasant for me in my space. Since
you son can't have his own room is there anyway you
can help him have some space that he can keep as he
wants? Hanging a curtain or putting a bookshelf
between him and others? Creating some kind of visual
barrier for him?
I see a family or living group as a team that pulls
together to help every one in it be comfortable.
Making group agreements about how clean a room should
be is part of showing you care for each other's needs,
IMHO. I don't like the model where each individual
must take care of themself as if they live alone. I
like a more a cooperative model.
Ryam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
If you require more order than those you live with,
then usually you'll be doing more cleaning/clearing
than others. That's hard at times, but just part of
being who you are.
Others here have given you many ideas about
reorganizing your space and how you can make it more
fun to get things put away. All those are good ideas.
There are many good books on the topic of keeping
clutter under some kind of control that might help
too.
However I also think it's important to set basic
standards around the house. These would vary based on
the family style and everyone's needs. I draw the line
at safety and not being able to find things. That
means if things are starting to stack up on the floor
to where they're in the way or if my son can't find
things and is frequently asking for help, then
organizing is needed. I help him and model some ways
to keep things where they're easy to find. Lots of
organizing is made up of simple habits that make life
much easier in the long run. Learning these is a very
helpful skill.
Also, if you have a baby or someone with allergies to
dust, then it's more impt to keep things cleaner.
Again I'm not talking about being obsessive.
Do you do any kind of family meeting where you can
discuss issues like this? Where perhaps the kids can
help figure out ways to keep things more organized or
safer for the baby? Including everyone in planning
helps them feel more invested in doing the work
required.
I do feel for you and your son who can't stand
clutter. Too much stuff everywhere is really
distracting and unpleasant for me in my space. Since
you son can't have his own room is there anyway you
can help him have some space that he can keep as he
wants? Hanging a curtain or putting a bookshelf
between him and others? Creating some kind of visual
barrier for him?
I see a family or living group as a team that pulls
together to help every one in it be comfortable.
Making group agreements about how clean a room should
be is part of showing you care for each other's needs,
IMHO. I don't like the model where each individual
must take care of themself as if they live alone. I
like a more a cooperative model.
Ryam
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Melissa
Open to suggestions, are ye?! LOL! One thing I really loved from Love
and Logic it was the first time anyone ever told me that kids should
make their own choices (can you tell what kind of family *I* grew up
in?) I still use their stock phrase when there's a problem. A very
empathic "How sad for you", followed by a "What do you think you're
going to do about it?" If they say something, ask them how they think
it will work. If they don't have an idea, I usually offer up three or
four ideas (some of them down right ridiculous) and ask them what
they think.
Can you give a layout of the house, and maybe in particular their
bedroom with how many closets, shelves etc? I know when my
stepsisters and I were sharing a room, we had a bunkbed, and another
twin, two dressers and two closets that we all shared (what a
nightmare, I'm telling you) However, we were all older (Shawna and I
were 15, and Shamitra was 13) so I'll bet that made it easier. Less
toys and more teen girl stuff that we all shared.
When we were in our old house before Dan was born, it was a tight
squeeze too, with Josh and Sam in about 100 sq ft, and Bre, emily and
Rachel in 150 sq ft. Bunk beds helped, and so did lots of dresser
drawers to stick personal stuff in. We have rubbermaid bins to store
stuff in, and stick them under beds, and in closets. TBH...we bought
a house out of our price range just for the square footage.
Thankfully it's a fixer upper (even three years later) so it wasn't
as bad as others in our neighborhood. But we bought it specifically
so that Josh and Bre could have their own rooms. Josh has too many
little things and tools and knives laying around, and Breanna has to
have an overhead light and radio blaring to sleep at night. That
means that Sam and Dan share a room, and Emily, Rachel and Avari
share a room.
Well gotta go, trying to get ready for Holy Week, and I still have
half a house to go through. Ach!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
and Logic it was the first time anyone ever told me that kids should
make their own choices (can you tell what kind of family *I* grew up
in?) I still use their stock phrase when there's a problem. A very
empathic "How sad for you", followed by a "What do you think you're
going to do about it?" If they say something, ask them how they think
it will work. If they don't have an idea, I usually offer up three or
four ideas (some of them down right ridiculous) and ask them what
they think.
Can you give a layout of the house, and maybe in particular their
bedroom with how many closets, shelves etc? I know when my
stepsisters and I were sharing a room, we had a bunkbed, and another
twin, two dressers and two closets that we all shared (what a
nightmare, I'm telling you) However, we were all older (Shawna and I
were 15, and Shamitra was 13) so I'll bet that made it easier. Less
toys and more teen girl stuff that we all shared.
When we were in our old house before Dan was born, it was a tight
squeeze too, with Josh and Sam in about 100 sq ft, and Bre, emily and
Rachel in 150 sq ft. Bunk beds helped, and so did lots of dresser
drawers to stick personal stuff in. We have rubbermaid bins to store
stuff in, and stick them under beds, and in closets. TBH...we bought
a house out of our price range just for the square footage.
Thankfully it's a fixer upper (even three years later) so it wasn't
as bad as others in our neighborhood. But we bought it specifically
so that Josh and Bre could have their own rooms. Josh has too many
little things and tools and knives laying around, and Breanna has to
have an overhead light and radio blaring to sleep at night. That
means that Sam and Dan share a room, and Emily, Rachel and Avari
share a room.
Well gotta go, trying to get ready for Holy Week, and I still have
half a house to go through. Ach!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Apr 9, 2006, at 11:24 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:
> Thanks Melissa. I think my kids just like to take their stuff out
> and not put it back. I gotcha. But then my daughter will complain
> that one of her brothers is playing with her toys and she doesn't
> want them to. I told her the best way to deal with that is to put
> her toys in her closet. But if they are on the floor then her
> brothers will assume that they toys is available to play with.
> Since they are all sharing a room that's the best compromise that I
> can come up with so that personal toys are respected, and communal
> toys get played with. I'm open to suggestions.
Maisha Khalfani
Thanks Joyce! it is a shift in thinking, that's for sure. I told the 7 yo and the 6 yo that if they wanted help cleaning their room I would help them, and I left it at that. I'm still learning that in the end the only person I can truly control is myself. And that a spic-n-span house is not necessarily the mark of a person who's living joyfully and in the moment.
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
You have messes because you're surrounded by a family who love
you :-) Choosing to have kids is like choosing to have an indoor cat.
The *cat* is not the cause of you having to clean the litter box.
Your choice to have an indoor cat is why the litter box needs cleaned.
Same with kids :-)
If keeping the house orderly is overwhelming, then rethink why it's
getting messy or let go. (It does sound like that's the direction
you're heading! Just wanted to point out the roadblock -- or mental
stumbling block -- you've erecting between you and getting there.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
You have messes because you're surrounded by a family who love
you :-) Choosing to have kids is like choosing to have an indoor cat.
The *cat* is not the cause of you having to clean the litter box.
Your choice to have an indoor cat is why the litter box needs cleaned.
Same with kids :-)
If keeping the house orderly is overwhelming, then rethink why it's
getting messy or let go. (It does sound like that's the direction
you're heading! Just wanted to point out the roadblock -- or mental
stumbling block -- you've erecting between you and getting there.)
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha Khalfani
I suppose more storage stuff would help. Right now in their room they have two bins for toys and playclothes, 4 milk crates for books, one rubbermaid storage unit as a dresser, and one mattress on the floor that the three sleep on (the one yr old still sleeps with me and dh). Eventually we need to get more bins or something, and a boxspring to get the mattress off the floor - it keeps getting moved around - LOL. As for the clothes everywhere, I suppose that will fall to me. My daughter doesn't want to hang up her clothes at all, and my 6 yr old wants to hang up his clothes, but he can't reach the rack. Ugh! LOL You guys are definitely helping me to stretch muscles I didn't even know I had! LOL
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
Can you give a layout of the house, and maybe in particular their
bedroom with how many closets, shelves etc? I know when my
stepsisters and I were sharing a room, we had a bunkbed, and another
twin, two dressers and two closets that we all shared (what a
nightmare, I'm telling you) However, we were all older (Shawna and I
were 15, and Shamitra was 13) so I'll bet that made it easier. Less
toys and more teen girl stuff that we all shared.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maisha
http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/<http://khalfanifamilyadventures.blogspot.com/>
"Don't be afraid of showing affection. Be warm and tender, thoughtful and affectionate. Mankind is more helped by sympathy than by service. Love is more than money, and a kind word will give more pleasure than a present."
~ Jean Baptiste Lacordaire
Can you give a layout of the house, and maybe in particular their
bedroom with how many closets, shelves etc? I know when my
stepsisters and I were sharing a room, we had a bunkbed, and another
twin, two dressers and two closets that we all shared (what a
nightmare, I'm telling you) However, we were all older (Shawna and I
were 15, and Shamitra was 13) so I'll bet that made it easier. Less
toys and more teen girl stuff that we all shared.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christe Bruderlin
She might not fit everyone's taste, but I swear by this woman
www.flylady.net and her Yahoo group
She talks about releasing perfectionism and truly teaches how to clean in 15 minutes a day without being a martyr, with joy and love, etc. She starts with babysteps (shining your kitchen sink) that sound crazy at first, but trust me when I say, I tried it and it works!
My house is SO SO MUCH cleaner, I am so much less grumpy about it, the kids love when I use the timers and the dusters (I got a baby duster, too...so funny that little ones WANT to clean!), etc. Like I said, not for everyone, but my mood change alone is huge.
Best of all, she does it all for FREE.
Hope that helps!
Christe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
www.flylady.net and her Yahoo group
She talks about releasing perfectionism and truly teaches how to clean in 15 minutes a day without being a martyr, with joy and love, etc. She starts with babysteps (shining your kitchen sink) that sound crazy at first, but trust me when I say, I tried it and it works!
My house is SO SO MUCH cleaner, I am so much less grumpy about it, the kids love when I use the timers and the dusters (I got a baby duster, too...so funny that little ones WANT to clean!), etc. Like I said, not for everyone, but my mood change alone is huge.
Best of all, she does it all for FREE.
Hope that helps!
Christe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ellen Christian
LOL I do Flylady too. She's wonderful!
Christe Bruderlin <techwritercsbn@...> wrote: She might not fit everyone's taste, but I swear by this woman
www.flylady.net and her Yahoo group
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4/5
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christe Bruderlin <techwritercsbn@...> wrote: She might not fit everyone's taste, but I swear by this woman
www.flylady.net and her Yahoo group
Ellen LaFleche-Christian - Garden Zone 4/5
Moonlight Creations Jewelry & Gifts http://moonlight-creations-jewelry.com
Receive a recipe every day http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARecipeADay/
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 11, 2006, at 3:22 AM, Christe Bruderlin wrote:
wasn't a place to begin and they just kept coming. Now apparently she
does have a step by step beginning:
http://www.flylady.net/pages/begin_babysteps.asp
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> www.flylady.net and her Yahoo groupI've joined that group twice and got overwhelmed by the emails. There
wasn't a place to begin and they just kept coming. Now apparently she
does have a step by step beginning:
http://www.flylady.net/pages/begin_babysteps.asp
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa
Can you get some plywood? One thing we do is store a lot under the
beds, and if you can get the mattress a foot up off the floor, then
you could put the sweaterboxes underneath for clothes or toys. We
went to home depot, bought a 4x8 sheet, and had them rip a foot of a
side and each end (three cuts are free!) Brackets made an I shape out
of the cut pieces, and tacked the left over piece on top. You might
need 1 inch planks though, if the kids are bigger. You might also try
freecycle, sometimes they have stuff that could be used (now that I
think about it, at one point when I was in college my bed was on a
plywood platform with cinderblocks underneath, so maybe milk crates
or something could hold it up and you have built in book shelves ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
beds, and if you can get the mattress a foot up off the floor, then
you could put the sweaterboxes underneath for clothes or toys. We
went to home depot, bought a 4x8 sheet, and had them rip a foot of a
side and each end (three cuts are free!) Brackets made an I shape out
of the cut pieces, and tacked the left over piece on top. You might
need 1 inch planks though, if the kids are bigger. You might also try
freecycle, sometimes they have stuff that could be used (now that I
think about it, at one point when I was in college my bed was on a
plywood platform with cinderblocks underneath, so maybe milk crates
or something could hold it up and you have built in book shelves ;-)
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma
On Apr 10, 2006, at 11:11 PM, Maisha Khalfani wrote:
> I suppose more storage stuff would help. Right now in their room
> they have two bins for toys and playclothes, 4 milk crates for
> books, one rubbermaid storage unit as a dresser, and one mattress
> on the floor that the three sleep on (the one yr old still sleeps
> with me and dh). Eventually we need to get more bins or something,
> and a boxspring to get the mattress off the floor - it keeps
> getting moved around - LOL. As for the clothes everywhere, I
> suppose that will fall to me. My daughter doesn't want to hang up
> her clothes at all, and my 6 yr old wants to hang up his clothes,
> but he can't reach the rack. Ugh! LOL You guys are definitely
> helping me t