four year olds and boundaries
kay alina
Ren wrote:
Maybe it's not anti-unschooling, but the word "required" conjures up
feelings of anti-joy for me.
Four years old is very little. Understanding child development and the four
year old mind (in general) has helped me see that the priorities are very
different in their world, as well they should be.
My toddlers joyfully help me, it's part of trying out the adult world, which
they mimic intensely at times...all part of the learning process.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
True Ren. It is not always joyful. Example of this evening. He was
involved in an art project when I came downstairs to check email. He was
making a great card to send to his grandmom. He came down after awhile and
said he wanted to do braingame on the computer. I found a site that
satisfied him and went upstairs. Lo and behold a beautiful card but when I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. I forgot to mention he is not a typical four year
old. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.
His Karate teacher once told me if there was ever an adult in a child's body
it would be him. So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
I agree with you that having a clutter free home is an issue of mine. His
father does not appeciate a messy house either though. If the sink is full
of dishes and there is an abundance of laundry around I am expected to take
care of it. Seems reasonable to me. He goes to work and provides for our
care and I am required to maintain a reasonable environment. I wish I could
have made a game out of the situation this afternoon but I just didn't know
how. I guess it comes down to intent. If I sense the intent is destructive
I will pull the reigns. If the intent is normal curiosity and learning and
making mistakes it is a different story.
He is a great kid. He is gifted, creative and a handful and he at this
point needs guidelines and boundaries. That is why I am on the fence about
incorporating the entire unschooling lifestyle in all areas of our lives.
Kay
Maybe it's not anti-unschooling, but the word "required" conjures up
feelings of anti-joy for me.
Four years old is very little. Understanding child development and the four
year old mind (in general) has helped me see that the priorities are very
different in their world, as well they should be.
My toddlers joyfully help me, it's part of trying out the adult world, which
they mimic intensely at times...all part of the learning process.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
True Ren. It is not always joyful. Example of this evening. He was
involved in an art project when I came downstairs to check email. He was
making a great card to send to his grandmom. He came down after awhile and
said he wanted to do braingame on the computer. I found a site that
satisfied him and went upstairs. Lo and behold a beautiful card but when I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. I forgot to mention he is not a typical four year
old. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.
His Karate teacher once told me if there was ever an adult in a child's body
it would be him. So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
I agree with you that having a clutter free home is an issue of mine. His
father does not appeciate a messy house either though. If the sink is full
of dishes and there is an abundance of laundry around I am expected to take
care of it. Seems reasonable to me. He goes to work and provides for our
care and I am required to maintain a reasonable environment. I wish I could
have made a game out of the situation this afternoon but I just didn't know
how. I guess it comes down to intent. If I sense the intent is destructive
I will pull the reigns. If the intent is normal curiosity and learning and
making mistakes it is a different story.
He is a great kid. He is gifted, creative and a handful and he at this
point needs guidelines and boundaries. That is why I am on the fence about
incorporating the entire unschooling lifestyle in all areas of our lives.
Kay
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/26/2004 11:39:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
angelsguard@... writes:
So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
<<<<
From a four year old's point of view (and mine as well), what he learned is
that you care more about the house than about him.
You can choose to look at it differently. You could have chosen to feel
seriously resentful OR you could have chosen to ask him to help you clean up the
mess while talking about his new creation. He won't be four forever. *He* may
not even be around forever. My goal is to treat my son as I would if today
were his last day on earth. When angry or frustrated, I try really hard to
stop and think: "what would I do if..."
And he may learn that creativity just isn't *worth* the clean-up! My boys'
creativity is so much more valuable than any clean house I could have. I would
hate for them to stop creating to keep from having to clean up a mess. I
would have happily cleaned it up.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
angelsguard@... writes:
So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
<<<<
From a four year old's point of view (and mine as well), what he learned is
that you care more about the house than about him.
You can choose to look at it differently. You could have chosen to feel
seriously resentful OR you could have chosen to ask him to help you clean up the
mess while talking about his new creation. He won't be four forever. *He* may
not even be around forever. My goal is to treat my son as I would if today
were his last day on earth. When angry or frustrated, I try really hard to
stop and think: "what would I do if..."
And he may learn that creativity just isn't *worth* the clean-up! My boys'
creativity is so much more valuable than any clean house I could have. I would
hate for them to stop creating to keep from having to clean up a mess. I
would have happily cleaned it up.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
G&M Contracting Inc., Kenneth Gillilan
>>>I forgot to mention he is not a typical four yearold. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.>>>
This statement bothers me because I've heard it so many times from parents
of gifted children. Please don't forget that even if he acts 8 he is still
4 and has age 4 impulses and feelings. Sometimes when we see our kids as
older than what they are we take away their childhood. Don't rush it, he
sounds absolutely charming and I would hate to see him burning out and
feeling bad about himself.
I have seen the burnout first hand and let me tell you it's not pretty.
You would find yourself wishing you just picked the books up and left well
enough alone.
AnnMarie
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
-----Original Message-----
From: kay alina [mailto:angelsguard@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 11:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] four year olds and boundaries
Ren wrote:
Maybe it's not anti-unschooling, but the word "required" conjures up
feelings of anti-joy for me.
Four years old is very little. Understanding child development and the
four
year old mind (in general) has helped me see that the priorities are very
different in their world, as well they should be.
My toddlers joyfully help me, it's part of trying out the adult world,
which
they mimic intensely at times...all part of the learning process.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
True Ren. It is not always joyful. Example of this evening. He was
involved in an art project when I came downstairs to check email. He was
making a great card to send to his grandmom. He came down after awhile
and
said he wanted to do braingame on the computer. I found a site that
satisfied him and went upstairs. Lo and behold a beautiful card but when
I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up
the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly
joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. I forgot to mention he is not a typical four year
old. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.
His Karate teacher once told me if there was ever an adult in a child's
body
it would be him. So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys
of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not
work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward
him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created
himself.
I agree with you that having a clutter free home is an issue of mine. His
father does not appeciate a messy house either though. If the sink is
full
of dishes and there is an abundance of laundry around I am expected to
take
care of it. Seems reasonable to me. He goes to work and provides for our
care and I am required to maintain a reasonable environment. I wish I
could
have made a game out of the situation this afternoon but I just didn't
know
how. I guess it comes down to intent. If I sense the intent is
destructive
I will pull the reigns. If the intent is normal curiosity and learning
and
making mistakes it is a different story.
He is a great kid. He is gifted, creative and a handful and he at this
point needs guidelines and boundaries. That is why I am on the fence
about
incorporating the entire unschooling lifestyle in all areas of our lives.
Kay
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kimberly
>this
> He is a great kid. He is gifted, creative and a handful and he at
> point needs guidelines and boundaries. That is why I am on thefence about
> incorporating the entire unschooling lifestyle in all areas of ourlives.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Kay
Kay, I understand where you are coming from. Not every child is the
same and I do not think your son thinks you care more about the house
then you do him, and if he does think that, I do not think it will
last.
My point, one of the strongest emotions I had as a small child was
my mother leaving my father for another man. Goddess how I hated her
and her new husband. It went on for a few years and at some point
when I was only enough to understand it all seemed clear, why she did
it, and I could not blame her at all. The same I have found was true
of many things I thought true when I was little but latter learned
was wrong when I got older.
I do not think having him clean then up as you did was the best
way, but it is what you did, and it is not as if you bent him over,
and spanked him for it as some I know have. We all have our path, and
this is the point you are at in yours. I think you are at the right
place here though, and you could learn other ways of re-acting. Like
you though, I refuse to become a cleaning slave for my childs
creativity or live in a mess. There is a middle ground I think.
Advanced or not though, others sound right about him still having
the emotions of a 4 year old even if he has the smarts of a 8 year
old, some things are only learned with time. I live with a gifted 4
year old and though he is very smart, far smarter then my little one
in many ways, he is parented by a hard hand and has no self
confidence is very whiney about every thing. Everyone is different,
and though I think most 4 year olds fit in a class by themselves, all
of them are different from eachother too.
I do feel for you. What ever works for all of you.
Blessings,
Kimmy
Robyn Coburn
<<<when I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. .......I would have been seriously resentful toward
him if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had
him clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created
himself.>>>
How do you know that he had no intention of coming back to it later? What a
delightful surprise it would have been for him, if he had come back to the
room and found it all cleaned up for him. What a shame that you missed an
opportunity to give him a gift of 5 minutes of your time, and turned it into
an unpleasant interruption of what he was doing - which is punitive in
itself.
What if your dh said "stop what you are doing right now regardless of what
it is, and do this thing that is important to *me* instead - NOW" ? You
might stop your activity and do his, because you love your dh, but I bet you
wouldn't feel very cordial towards him, or joyous about it.
What if he said, "Gee, I wish you would do this really important to me
thing, as soon as you get a chance. I can help you when you're ready" ?
If it were Jayn's (4.5) mess, and it often is just like this, I might ask
her to clean it up later, when she has a moment. I find if I bite my tongue
and wait, she starts the tidy up spontaneously more and more often -
sometimes asking for help. Then we get to do something kind for each other.
That happened earlier this evening with almost her entire soft doll
collection which she had pulled out onto the floor of the (shared with us)
bedroom to search for something. I had mentioned it hours before. Much later
she went to clean it up (without further reminders - she just noticed all
the toys out), and I asked her if she wanted help, and I got the
incalculably valuable reward of a heartfelt "thank you" and a nice story she
had invented about a couple of her characters.
Sometimes her messes are just too daunting for her, and I ask if I can go
ahead and get started. Then she helps me (usually) and is always so grateful
and happy to have her clean slate for play back. BTW, we live in a one
bedroom apartment, typical L-shaped living/dining room, and our dining area
is the office, so we are all pretty much cramped in here.
Yesterday, I was stripping the bed and said something about wanting to put
new sheets on after it had aired a while, before Daddy got home. To my
surprise Jayn came up with a plan that she could make the bed while I talked
to Daddy later on. She really wanted to help. I smiled to myself, because I
thought that likely she would forget, and anyhow she really is too little to
put on new sheets and lift the mattress to tuck them in etc. But I didn't
discourage her.
A little while later, dh came home sooner than expedted and we were talking
about the business of the day, and I noticed that Jayn was gone. So I
tiptoed to the bedroom door. Sure enough there she was carefully hauling up
the pillows (sans pillowcases) and arranging them in place on the bed - all
she was physically capable of. I crept back to the living room to whisper to
dh the whole story so that he would understand the state of the bed and make
some nice comment to Jayn. A few moments later she very seriously came out
to me, and asked me to help her with the comforter. In the end, she allowed
me to put the bottom sheet on (me "assisting" her in the job) and she put on
the pillowcases with very little help. She was so proud of herself, and I am
just about bursting with it.
Just because something is "reasonable" doesn't mean it is the kindest
solution, or the one which will have the longest term positive effect on our
trust relationship with our kids.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.707 / Virus Database: 463 - Release Date: 6/15/2004
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. .......I would have been seriously resentful toward
him if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had
him clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created
himself.>>>
How do you know that he had no intention of coming back to it later? What a
delightful surprise it would have been for him, if he had come back to the
room and found it all cleaned up for him. What a shame that you missed an
opportunity to give him a gift of 5 minutes of your time, and turned it into
an unpleasant interruption of what he was doing - which is punitive in
itself.
What if your dh said "stop what you are doing right now regardless of what
it is, and do this thing that is important to *me* instead - NOW" ? You
might stop your activity and do his, because you love your dh, but I bet you
wouldn't feel very cordial towards him, or joyous about it.
What if he said, "Gee, I wish you would do this really important to me
thing, as soon as you get a chance. I can help you when you're ready" ?
If it were Jayn's (4.5) mess, and it often is just like this, I might ask
her to clean it up later, when she has a moment. I find if I bite my tongue
and wait, she starts the tidy up spontaneously more and more often -
sometimes asking for help. Then we get to do something kind for each other.
That happened earlier this evening with almost her entire soft doll
collection which she had pulled out onto the floor of the (shared with us)
bedroom to search for something. I had mentioned it hours before. Much later
she went to clean it up (without further reminders - she just noticed all
the toys out), and I asked her if she wanted help, and I got the
incalculably valuable reward of a heartfelt "thank you" and a nice story she
had invented about a couple of her characters.
Sometimes her messes are just too daunting for her, and I ask if I can go
ahead and get started. Then she helps me (usually) and is always so grateful
and happy to have her clean slate for play back. BTW, we live in a one
bedroom apartment, typical L-shaped living/dining room, and our dining area
is the office, so we are all pretty much cramped in here.
Yesterday, I was stripping the bed and said something about wanting to put
new sheets on after it had aired a while, before Daddy got home. To my
surprise Jayn came up with a plan that she could make the bed while I talked
to Daddy later on. She really wanted to help. I smiled to myself, because I
thought that likely she would forget, and anyhow she really is too little to
put on new sheets and lift the mattress to tuck them in etc. But I didn't
discourage her.
A little while later, dh came home sooner than expedted and we were talking
about the business of the day, and I noticed that Jayn was gone. So I
tiptoed to the bedroom door. Sure enough there she was carefully hauling up
the pillows (sans pillowcases) and arranging them in place on the bed - all
she was physically capable of. I crept back to the living room to whisper to
dh the whole story so that he would understand the state of the bed and make
some nice comment to Jayn. A few moments later she very seriously came out
to me, and asked me to help her with the comforter. In the end, she allowed
me to put the bottom sheet on (me "assisting" her in the job) and she put on
the pillowcases with very little help. She was so proud of herself, and I am
just about bursting with it.
Just because something is "reasonable" doesn't mean it is the kindest
solution, or the one which will have the longest term positive effect on our
trust relationship with our kids.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.707 / Virus Database: 463 - Release Date: 6/15/2004
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/27/2004 1:47:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
He was
involved in an art project when I came downstairs to check email. He was
making a great card to send to his grandmom. He came down after awhile and
said he wanted to do braingame on the computer. I found a site that
satisfied him and went upstairs. Lo and behold a beautiful card but when I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. I forgot to mention he is not a typical four year
old. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.
His Karate teacher once told me if there was ever an adult in a child's body
it would be him. So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
**********************************
What would it be like, since you say he's so mature, if you said to him, "You
look like you're having a great time with that game, so I don't want to
interrupt, but please pick up these books as soon as you're done."?
If he doesn't do it when he's done, then I suppose you could "require" him to
do it then. The advantage is that you don't ruin his play, you get the books
picked up, AND it actually lets him be more responsible than you're standing
there and making him do it.
If it happened again, all you'd really have to say is, "The books..."
Kathryn
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
He was
involved in an art project when I came downstairs to check email. He was
making a great card to send to his grandmom. He came down after awhile and
said he wanted to do braingame on the computer. I found a site that
satisfied him and went upstairs. Lo and behold a beautiful card but when I
went into the tv room I saw that he had taken about thirty board books off
the top shelf of the bookcase and strewn them all over the floor. So, I
went downstairs and ended his computer fun and "required" him to pick up the
books he had strewn all over the floor. He was not in a particularly joyful
mood and neither was I. He apologized which I told him would mean more if
the behavior changed. I forgot to mention he is not a typical four year
old. I have not tested him as far as where his IQ is but his verbal and
cognitive skills are probably that of someone closer to eight years old.
His Karate teacher once told me if there was ever an adult in a child's body
it would be him. So, yes, it is wonderful when he is sharing in the joys of
the household and we are playing/working as a team but it just does not work
out that way all the time. I would have been seriously resentful toward him
if I had just picked up the mess he intentionally created and not had him
clean it up himself. He grumbled but it was a situation he created himself.
**********************************
What would it be like, since you say he's so mature, if you said to him, "You
look like you're having a great time with that game, so I don't want to
interrupt, but please pick up these books as soon as you're done."?
If he doesn't do it when he's done, then I suppose you could "require" him to
do it then. The advantage is that you don't ruin his play, you get the books
picked up, AND it actually lets him be more responsible than you're standing
there and making him do it.
If it happened again, all you'd really have to say is, "The books..."
Kathryn
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren
"I guess it comes down to intent. If I sense the intent is destructive
I will pull the reigns. If the intent is normal curiosity and learning and
making mistakes it is a different story."
You're reading intent into something that probably isn't there. You may see his intelligence as somewhere near 8, but he's still 4! If he's purposely destructive (which I doubt) then it's time to look at the "why" rather than trying to fix or change his behavior by force.
You won't teach him the lesson you think.
You'll teach him that a big person can force themselves on a smaller person and that your needs are more important than his at the moment. He can't/won't have empathy for the mess and what you feel about it, by forcing him to do something when he really doesn't want to.
You're also teaching him that clean up is drudgery....not the best way to help him find joy in even mundane tasks.
When I start to feel a nudge of resentment welling up, I look at my dear, sweet children and the activity they are participating in at the moment. I see that the thing they are doing has more value for them, than the clean up and I start doing it usually. I won't ask for help, if I see they are actively involved in something that interests them...be it television, computer, a book or building legos.
If I catch them at an opportune moment, I'll say "this playdough mess is everywhere, could you help me get it picked up so I can use the table" or something similar. Usually I get an "OH, I'm sorry Mom, I'll come help in just a minute"....OR "no, I'm not done with that yet" OR "I'm busy right now, I'll clean it up in a little bit Ok?"
And all of those responses are acceptable.
If I really, really care deeply about some clean up thing...I let them know. "Hey, we have company in an hour, I'd really like to get the laundry and dishes taken care of, I need help right away!"
They're great about it.
My three year old is learning from that which surrounds him. Last night, he mushed a bunch of noodles on the floor. I don't know if it was an accident or not, I didn't see what happened although it was right behind me while I was on the computer.
We have a wood floor, so mess doesn't phase me. I noticed he had grabbed the little dustpan and brush, and was trying to scoop the wet noodles into it. It was mushing them about, and not really doing much good, but he was happy and feeling useful so I left him alone.
A minute later, he was watching tv and I finished cleaning up what was left.
I think his happiness is FAR more important than any mess.
Books on the floor? That's easy!:)
I certainly would not let my dh's expectations create unhappiness for my children. We tried that, it's awful.
My dh is a total NEAT FREAK. But he's learned that it's not healthy for the kids. We created an area for him to escape to, that is exactly what HE needs, and the kids get to have a house that isn't uptight or focused on clean up when they need to make messes.
Messes are productive.
Messes are for learning.
Messes help children be creative.
Messes also cause stress for some adults, so those adults should try to remember what is truly more important (learning) and try to be an assistant to their child, rather than a task master. Instead of imparting some "lesson" on clean up, how about a lesson in joy?
How about teaching your child that even when they are curious enough to create a disaster, that you view them as whole and perfect and intelligent, and happily clean up after your little genius?:)
If you knew for a fact that you had the next Einstein, or Picasso...that your child was destined for absolute GREATNESS, would you continue to focus on lessons in clean up, or allow them to explore their genius uninhibited?
If you knew for a fact that your child would be gone from your life forever, next week...or next month, would you focus on lessons in clean up, or focus on living joyfully together?
There is a much bigger picture to look at.
We can step back from our frustrations as parents, and try to see the world through our child's unique view, realizing that a pile of books, or food on the floor, or any number of messes are all part of the learning process. There is no ill-intent behind their actions, just a small person trying to find their way in this big, wide world.
A small person that needs kind, empathetic adults, with joy and curiosity in their hearts, to explore with them.
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
I will pull the reigns. If the intent is normal curiosity and learning and
making mistakes it is a different story."
You're reading intent into something that probably isn't there. You may see his intelligence as somewhere near 8, but he's still 4! If he's purposely destructive (which I doubt) then it's time to look at the "why" rather than trying to fix or change his behavior by force.
You won't teach him the lesson you think.
You'll teach him that a big person can force themselves on a smaller person and that your needs are more important than his at the moment. He can't/won't have empathy for the mess and what you feel about it, by forcing him to do something when he really doesn't want to.
You're also teaching him that clean up is drudgery....not the best way to help him find joy in even mundane tasks.
When I start to feel a nudge of resentment welling up, I look at my dear, sweet children and the activity they are participating in at the moment. I see that the thing they are doing has more value for them, than the clean up and I start doing it usually. I won't ask for help, if I see they are actively involved in something that interests them...be it television, computer, a book or building legos.
If I catch them at an opportune moment, I'll say "this playdough mess is everywhere, could you help me get it picked up so I can use the table" or something similar. Usually I get an "OH, I'm sorry Mom, I'll come help in just a minute"....OR "no, I'm not done with that yet" OR "I'm busy right now, I'll clean it up in a little bit Ok?"
And all of those responses are acceptable.
If I really, really care deeply about some clean up thing...I let them know. "Hey, we have company in an hour, I'd really like to get the laundry and dishes taken care of, I need help right away!"
They're great about it.
My three year old is learning from that which surrounds him. Last night, he mushed a bunch of noodles on the floor. I don't know if it was an accident or not, I didn't see what happened although it was right behind me while I was on the computer.
We have a wood floor, so mess doesn't phase me. I noticed he had grabbed the little dustpan and brush, and was trying to scoop the wet noodles into it. It was mushing them about, and not really doing much good, but he was happy and feeling useful so I left him alone.
A minute later, he was watching tv and I finished cleaning up what was left.
I think his happiness is FAR more important than any mess.
Books on the floor? That's easy!:)
I certainly would not let my dh's expectations create unhappiness for my children. We tried that, it's awful.
My dh is a total NEAT FREAK. But he's learned that it's not healthy for the kids. We created an area for him to escape to, that is exactly what HE needs, and the kids get to have a house that isn't uptight or focused on clean up when they need to make messes.
Messes are productive.
Messes are for learning.
Messes help children be creative.
Messes also cause stress for some adults, so those adults should try to remember what is truly more important (learning) and try to be an assistant to their child, rather than a task master. Instead of imparting some "lesson" on clean up, how about a lesson in joy?
How about teaching your child that even when they are curious enough to create a disaster, that you view them as whole and perfect and intelligent, and happily clean up after your little genius?:)
If you knew for a fact that you had the next Einstein, or Picasso...that your child was destined for absolute GREATNESS, would you continue to focus on lessons in clean up, or allow them to explore their genius uninhibited?
If you knew for a fact that your child would be gone from your life forever, next week...or next month, would you focus on lessons in clean up, or focus on living joyfully together?
There is a much bigger picture to look at.
We can step back from our frustrations as parents, and try to see the world through our child's unique view, realizing that a pile of books, or food on the floor, or any number of messes are all part of the learning process. There is no ill-intent behind their actions, just a small person trying to find their way in this big, wide world.
A small person that needs kind, empathetic adults, with joy and curiosity in their hearts, to explore with them.
Ren
Learn about unschooling at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/