recent decisions
aroundthemilkyway
unschooling is so great!
i looked back in the messages and our intro was #9978....this is just
a brief update as to how !!!great!!! unschooling has been for our
family since that point!
well, we have made a decision to be done with the homeschool charter
program we have been a part of the past couple years. both my husband
and i feel it to be such a good decision....the philosophy there and
in our home are just way too different. our dd's are excited for the
change. the last number of weeks have just been so wonderful!!
sometimes i feel a bit too lazy as i think i am missing out on some
of the things my dd's would like to explore more about....but i think
i am deschooling and therefore not providing all the avenues for
them....but in the same breath....if they are really interested they
will keep pursuing and asking me....as for right now....the play in
our home has multiplied 10 fold and there is much more fun, laugher
and joy!! unschooling causes me to breathe a giant sigh of relief
often! i, too, am going to make a list of all the wonderful things
we are able to do that would be missed if we weren't unschooling....i
am so grateful for the relationships we are building as a family and
for the people my children are becoming.
sarah
i looked back in the messages and our intro was #9978....this is just
a brief update as to how !!!great!!! unschooling has been for our
family since that point!
well, we have made a decision to be done with the homeschool charter
program we have been a part of the past couple years. both my husband
and i feel it to be such a good decision....the philosophy there and
in our home are just way too different. our dd's are excited for the
change. the last number of weeks have just been so wonderful!!
sometimes i feel a bit too lazy as i think i am missing out on some
of the things my dd's would like to explore more about....but i think
i am deschooling and therefore not providing all the avenues for
them....but in the same breath....if they are really interested they
will keep pursuing and asking me....as for right now....the play in
our home has multiplied 10 fold and there is much more fun, laugher
and joy!! unschooling causes me to breathe a giant sigh of relief
often! i, too, am going to make a list of all the wonderful things
we are able to do that would be missed if we weren't unschooling....i
am so grateful for the relationships we are building as a family and
for the people my children are becoming.
sarah
Marian Mortensen
Hi Sarah,
I am so happy to hear your positive reflections on your unschooling
experience. We, too, have been with a charter program for about 5 years now
and are preparing to leave and start the "unschooling experience." I am
actually a little scared, but excited for the change. Our educational
consultant at the charter commented on how much more work it is for the
parents to unschool, and how difficult it can be with a little one (I have a
10yo, 8yo, 5yo and 1yo). I can imagine the liberating feeling of no more
paperwork pressures and how we can learn by living life and reading classic
books instead of learning what the state thinks everyone should know at a
certain age. I think my kids are looking forward to it, and we are all
trying to think of a good name for our school.
I would be interested in how you are approaching "deschooling" and how long
you think it will last.
Thanks,
Mar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am so happy to hear your positive reflections on your unschooling
experience. We, too, have been with a charter program for about 5 years now
and are preparing to leave and start the "unschooling experience." I am
actually a little scared, but excited for the change. Our educational
consultant at the charter commented on how much more work it is for the
parents to unschool, and how difficult it can be with a little one (I have a
10yo, 8yo, 5yo and 1yo). I can imagine the liberating feeling of no more
paperwork pressures and how we can learn by living life and reading classic
books instead of learning what the state thinks everyone should know at a
certain age. I think my kids are looking forward to it, and we are all
trying to think of a good name for our school.
I would be interested in how you are approaching "deschooling" and how long
you think it will last.
Thanks,
Mar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aroundthemilkyway
Our educational
now. recognizing we all have interests and needs at certain times of
the day, week, month....now child doesn't have to wait for such and
such because their sister needs this or that....we are just going
about life, working together so all needs are met naturally.
time (unfortunately)....daily i hope to trust my children more and
more. i see things in myself now that i hadn't even thought of before
as being a negative...now i can change them for the positive , as
something that will give my children more respect and dignity as a
person. as far as my approach....we basically went cold turkey.
suddenly there wasn't a difference between the weekend and the
weekdays. it was cool too (because i love to read and write...it was
exciting for me to see my children have this interest as well....not
that i think they *needed* to do this to make this unschooling
experience cool....) as soon as any pressure was off for reading and
writing, my children decided to do it on their own....for
example...."it is so and so's birthday mom, can i write them a
birthday card? NO! i will make them a book!" (suddenly writing words
they wouldn't have even tried writing the week prior....doing it
because they want to and have the confidence to try and ask for help
if they want or not to and know that what they create is special
because it came from their hearts) OR "HAPPY EASTER! HAPPY EASTER! I
JUST READ HAPPY EASTER!!!" reading a balloon at the grocery
store....now that built more confidence than an entire early reader
could have any day!
i am just so happy we found unschooling, found support (even if it is
cyber support~i do wish i could just pull a bunch of you out of the
computer and into my home so we could just chat and drink a cup of
tea...in person!), and found the freedom to learn so naturally. it
is definately a journey, so glad to be on it!
peace, sarah
> consultant at the charter commented on how much more work it is forthe
> parents to unschool, and how difficult it can be with a little one(I have a
> 10yo, 8yo, 5yo and 1yo).i have found it so much easier!! we are working together as a family
now. recognizing we all have interests and needs at certain times of
the day, week, month....now child doesn't have to wait for such and
such because their sister needs this or that....we are just going
about life, working together so all needs are met naturally.
> I would be interested in how you are approaching "deschooling" andhow long
> you think it will last.i have NO idea how long i think it will last....probably a good long
time (unfortunately)....daily i hope to trust my children more and
more. i see things in myself now that i hadn't even thought of before
as being a negative...now i can change them for the positive , as
something that will give my children more respect and dignity as a
person. as far as my approach....we basically went cold turkey.
suddenly there wasn't a difference between the weekend and the
weekdays. it was cool too (because i love to read and write...it was
exciting for me to see my children have this interest as well....not
that i think they *needed* to do this to make this unschooling
experience cool....) as soon as any pressure was off for reading and
writing, my children decided to do it on their own....for
example...."it is so and so's birthday mom, can i write them a
birthday card? NO! i will make them a book!" (suddenly writing words
they wouldn't have even tried writing the week prior....doing it
because they want to and have the confidence to try and ask for help
if they want or not to and know that what they create is special
because it came from their hearts) OR "HAPPY EASTER! HAPPY EASTER! I
JUST READ HAPPY EASTER!!!" reading a balloon at the grocery
store....now that built more confidence than an entire early reader
could have any day!
i am just so happy we found unschooling, found support (even if it is
cyber support~i do wish i could just pull a bunch of you out of the
computer and into my home so we could just chat and drink a cup of
tea...in person!), and found the freedom to learn so naturally. it
is definately a journey, so glad to be on it!
peace, sarah
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/3/06, Marian Mortensen <marianm@...> wrote:
telling children what it is that they are going to learn, you end up with 4
kids who have 4 different things that they want to pursue! You may find
yourself suttling and shuffling for a while as your kids enjoy the freedom
of being able to explore their world. That doesn't mean that doing more
work is a drudgery! It's fun and exciting! I am more energized on days
that we have full of activities than I am on days when we are sitting back
relaxing doing "nothing."
I can imagine the liberating feeling of no more
One, classics aren't any better or worse than what the state thinks you
should read. Classics are just books. A certain genre of books. They are
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They are
equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals. And reading isn't
anymore important as watching a movie, playing a video game, or standing
outside in the grass wiggling your toes.
Two, why do you need to name your school? Is this a state requirement? If
not, don't name it. Just call it life. That's what you are doing. Life.
Not school.
I would be interested in how you are approaching "deschooling" and how long
"deschooled" from now on. Deschooling never ends. Hopefully you will get
to a point where you stop thinking about the "educational importance" of a
certain activity and stop ranking activities by those importances. Growing
a garden will be done not to teach about how seeds germinate, to measure
growth, to teach the importance of organic growing, or any other reasons you
might think will teach your child a lesson. Growing a garden will be done
because someone is interested in some aspect of gradening. Whether it is
the joy of growing something or the desire to be able to walk outside and
pick fresh cherry tomatoes from your own bush. Now in growing that garden,
someone may want to keep a chart of how tall their corn is growing. Not so
they can learn math, but so that they can see when it is as tall as they
are.
Deschooling never ends if you are embracing an unschooling lifestyle!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>She's probably right. I think that unschooling is more work. Instead of
> Our educational
> consultant at the charter commented on how much more work it is for the
> parents to unschool, and how difficult it can be with a little one (I have
> a
> 10yo, 8yo, 5yo and 1yo).
telling children what it is that they are going to learn, you end up with 4
kids who have 4 different things that they want to pursue! You may find
yourself suttling and shuffling for a while as your kids enjoy the freedom
of being able to explore their world. That doesn't mean that doing more
work is a drudgery! It's fun and exciting! I am more energized on days
that we have full of activities than I am on days when we are sitting back
relaxing doing "nothing."
I can imagine the liberating feeling of no more
> paperwork pressures and how we can learn by living life and readingTwo things.
> classic
> books instead of learning what the state thinks everyone should know at a
> certain age. I think my kids are looking forward to it, and we are all
> trying to think of a good name for our school.
One, classics aren't any better or worse than what the state thinks you
should read. Classics are just books. A certain genre of books. They are
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They are
equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals. And reading isn't
anymore important as watching a movie, playing a video game, or standing
outside in the grass wiggling your toes.
Two, why do you need to name your school? Is this a state requirement? If
not, don't name it. Just call it life. That's what you are doing. Life.
Not school.
I would be interested in how you are approaching "deschooling" and how long
> you think it will last.What do you envision as "deschooling?" Your whole lives are going to be
"deschooled" from now on. Deschooling never ends. Hopefully you will get
to a point where you stop thinking about the "educational importance" of a
certain activity and stop ranking activities by those importances. Growing
a garden will be done not to teach about how seeds germinate, to measure
growth, to teach the importance of organic growing, or any other reasons you
might think will teach your child a lesson. Growing a garden will be done
because someone is interested in some aspect of gradening. Whether it is
the joy of growing something or the desire to be able to walk outside and
pick fresh cherry tomatoes from your own bush. Now in growing that garden,
someone may want to keep a chart of how tall their corn is growing. Not so
they can learn math, but so that they can see when it is as tall as they
are.
Deschooling never ends if you are embracing an unschooling lifestyle!
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
" Classics are just books. A certain genre of books. They are
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They
are equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals."
Actually they aren't equal. They are vastly less important if the
learner is more interested in comic books!!:)
I understand what Michelle is saying, but wanted to add on.
If the learner enjoys comics, they are of vastly higher importance
than classics. If the learner enjoys video games, they are of vastly
higher importance than book reading. What the learner is fascinated
with, is most important for their journey. We need to trust their
interest above what we ourselves value, in order for learning
(ie;unschooling) to unfold in the most optimal manner.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They
are equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals."
Actually they aren't equal. They are vastly less important if the
learner is more interested in comic books!!:)
I understand what Michelle is saying, but wanted to add on.
If the learner enjoys comics, they are of vastly higher importance
than classics. If the learner enjoys video games, they are of vastly
higher importance than book reading. What the learner is fascinated
with, is most important for their journey. We need to trust their
interest above what we ourselves value, in order for learning
(ie;unschooling) to unfold in the most optimal manner.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sylvia Toyama
Classics are just books. A certain genre of books. They are
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They are equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals."
*****
Some of today's 'classics' were trash romance in their time. Dickens wrote serial fiction for newspapers -- work considered way beneath the upper class. Now schools hail his work as classic. Much as I love books and reading, I recognized long ago that reading is reading and everything counts. I don't care if my kids are reading comic books, illustrated condensed novels, harlequins or cereal boxes -- it's all reading and I trust that reading anything is part of gaining more info about the world.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (21) Andy (9) and Dan (5)
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga. They are equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals."
*****
Some of today's 'classics' were trash romance in their time. Dickens wrote serial fiction for newspapers -- work considered way beneath the upper class. Now schools hail his work as classic. Much as I love books and reading, I recognized long ago that reading is reading and everything counts. I don't care if my kids are reading comic books, illustrated condensed novels, harlequins or cereal boxes -- it's all reading and I trust that reading anything is part of gaining more info about the world.
Sylvia
Mom to Will (21) Andy (9) and Dan (5)
Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/4/2006 2:11:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
petalpollen@... writes:
don't seem to be that many unschoolers out where we live, sure would be nice
to be able to do what you mentioned above.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
petalpollen@... writes:
> i am just so happy we found unschooling, found support (even if it is***I feel the same way Sarah! We live pretty far out in the country and there
> cyber support~i do wish i could just pull a bunch of you out of the
> computer and into my home so we could just chat and drink a cup of
> tea...in person!),
don't seem to be that many unschoolers out where we live, sure would be nice
to be able to do what you mentioned above.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/4/06, Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
Shakespeare's Macbeth! In fact Shakespeare wrote for the (oooooooo)
theatre! (gasp!) It wasn't meant to be read and picked apart. Shakespeare
didn't agonize over every word he penned and wondered what allegory he was
creating or whether he had included enough irony or satire. It was a play!
It was what he wrote because he enjoyed creating! I bet Will would have
written much less if his plays were put under the same sort of microscope
then as we put his work today. I
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>And no one in the 17th century debated what "Get thee to a nunnery" meant in
> Some of today's 'classics' were trash romance in their time. Dickens
> wrote serial fiction for newspapers -- work considered way beneath the upper
> class. Now schools hail his work as classic.
Shakespeare's Macbeth! In fact Shakespeare wrote for the (oooooooo)
theatre! (gasp!) It wasn't meant to be read and picked apart. Shakespeare
didn't agonize over every word he penned and wondered what allegory he was
creating or whether he had included enough irony or satire. It was a play!
It was what he wrote because he enjoyed creating! I bet Will would have
written much less if his plays were put under the same sort of microscope
then as we put his work today. I
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
chotiius
--- In [email protected], Sylvia Toyama
<sylgt04@...> wrote:
And frankly, some of them are just ...well, not very classical.
When I was in college - I got a Liberal Arts degree with an emphasis
on Spanish Literature, which I had long since come to hate but was
stuck either finishing, or starting over - I was often given essays
to read which talked about things like the use of time in the novel,
or the use of voice, with examples from classic books. I had read
none of those books. And I had no time to read them either, not in
college. So I was somehow expected to know what the essays meant,
when I had none of the context I needed.
I made a list of all those 'classic' books that seemed so important
to have read, and after I graduated, I tried to read them all.
Ugh.
Maybe somebody somewhere swoons over 'Moby Dick', 'Ulysses', and the
unabridged 'Robinson Crusoe', but I am not among that crowd. Ugh. I
learned to give up rapidly on a 'classic' that put me to sleep in
three pages, or from which I could read the same paragraph over and
over without understanding a word of it. And as for "children's
classics" like Lorna Doone and Black Beauty, ugh. Even the Newbery
Award books have changed since the award was first handed out in the
1920's. They're all dark now. They always have to have a moral or a
lesson or a 'purpose' to the story. Do authors and award-givers
really believe kids don't see right through it all? I read every
one I could get my hands on, through about 1976, when I was in third
grade. I'm not even interested in the recent winners. So how can I
recommend them to my own children? "Here, it won an award"?
I have found more delight in the pages of Fantasy-writer Patrricia
Briggs than I ever found in Dickens, or DeFoe. The big difference is
that her books go out of print rapidly, while theirs persist.
I'm rambling, I'm sorry. We love books here in my house. My kids
don't read much yet on their own (at 8, 6, 6 and 2) but they love to
listen to me read, or to listen to books on tape, and I think that's
just as good). We don't revere books but we live with them - double-
deep on shelves, piled on the floor, under the beds, laid open
upside-down on unused surfaces.
I think what's vitally important is to *enjoy* reading as much as
possible. How many children have had their desire and joy of reading
snuffed out by 'reading assignments'? How many - and this seems
nearly as bad to me - have been prevented from having time to read
for pleasure, by being assigned "important" reading they could not
understand, did not enjoy, and forgot as soon as possible after?
By the way, my name is Angela. I have four daughters, and while we
don't exactly unschool (I'm too afraid of family reactions among
other things), we're closer to that on the continuum than anything
else I can put a finger on. We live in Bothell, Washington. I'm
enjoying this list a great deal.
--angela
<sylgt04@...> wrote:
>They are equal to mysteries, trash romance, and technical manuals."
> Classics are just books. A certain genre of books. They are
> equal in importance as reading a comic book or the latest manga.
And frankly, some of them are just ...well, not very classical.
When I was in college - I got a Liberal Arts degree with an emphasis
on Spanish Literature, which I had long since come to hate but was
stuck either finishing, or starting over - I was often given essays
to read which talked about things like the use of time in the novel,
or the use of voice, with examples from classic books. I had read
none of those books. And I had no time to read them either, not in
college. So I was somehow expected to know what the essays meant,
when I had none of the context I needed.
I made a list of all those 'classic' books that seemed so important
to have read, and after I graduated, I tried to read them all.
Ugh.
Maybe somebody somewhere swoons over 'Moby Dick', 'Ulysses', and the
unabridged 'Robinson Crusoe', but I am not among that crowd. Ugh. I
learned to give up rapidly on a 'classic' that put me to sleep in
three pages, or from which I could read the same paragraph over and
over without understanding a word of it. And as for "children's
classics" like Lorna Doone and Black Beauty, ugh. Even the Newbery
Award books have changed since the award was first handed out in the
1920's. They're all dark now. They always have to have a moral or a
lesson or a 'purpose' to the story. Do authors and award-givers
really believe kids don't see right through it all? I read every
one I could get my hands on, through about 1976, when I was in third
grade. I'm not even interested in the recent winners. So how can I
recommend them to my own children? "Here, it won an award"?
I have found more delight in the pages of Fantasy-writer Patrricia
Briggs than I ever found in Dickens, or DeFoe. The big difference is
that her books go out of print rapidly, while theirs persist.
I'm rambling, I'm sorry. We love books here in my house. My kids
don't read much yet on their own (at 8, 6, 6 and 2) but they love to
listen to me read, or to listen to books on tape, and I think that's
just as good). We don't revere books but we live with them - double-
deep on shelves, piled on the floor, under the beds, laid open
upside-down on unused surfaces.
I think what's vitally important is to *enjoy* reading as much as
possible. How many children have had their desire and joy of reading
snuffed out by 'reading assignments'? How many - and this seems
nearly as bad to me - have been prevented from having time to read
for pleasure, by being assigned "important" reading they could not
understand, did not enjoy, and forgot as soon as possible after?
By the way, my name is Angela. I have four daughters, and while we
don't exactly unschool (I'm too afraid of family reactions among
other things), we're closer to that on the continuum than anything
else I can put a finger on. We live in Bothell, Washington. I'm
enjoying this list a great deal.
--angela
Pampered Chef Michelle
On 4/4/06, chotiius <res0vi4u@...> wrote:
Seriously, my brother fought with learning to read. Hated reading the books
forced on him. Detested book reports because he couldn't figure out what he
was supposed to be getting out of the books. Reading is far too static for
him. But my brother has probably seen every movie that has been in the
theaters this year (save Brokeback Mountain hmph). He can talk to you day
and night about movies. He likes deep movies like the Matrix trilogy and
Eyes Wide Shut (one of his favorites). He hated reading LOTR, but loved the
movies. He even gets the subtle (and not so subtle) humor in Kenneth
Brannagh's Much Ado about Nothing even though he probably could never get
past "Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more but be thee blythe and bonny!"
He'd get to "Hey nonny nonny" and be totally lost. Finding that which you
love is what is important. And if that love happens to encompass books then
great. And if it doesn't, great, too!
By the way, my name is Angela. I have four daughters, and while we
are your children. :-)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>One needn't enjoy reading at all. (Although I can't imagine why not LOL!)
> =
> I think what's vitally important is to *enjoy* reading as much as
> possible. How many children have had their desire and joy of reading
> snuffed out by 'reading assignments'?
Seriously, my brother fought with learning to read. Hated reading the books
forced on him. Detested book reports because he couldn't figure out what he
was supposed to be getting out of the books. Reading is far too static for
him. But my brother has probably seen every movie that has been in the
theaters this year (save Brokeback Mountain hmph). He can talk to you day
and night about movies. He likes deep movies like the Matrix trilogy and
Eyes Wide Shut (one of his favorites). He hated reading LOTR, but loved the
movies. He even gets the subtle (and not so subtle) humor in Kenneth
Brannagh's Much Ado about Nothing even though he probably could never get
past "Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more but be thee blythe and bonny!"
He'd get to "Hey nonny nonny" and be totally lost. Finding that which you
love is what is important. And if that love happens to encompass books then
great. And if it doesn't, great, too!
By the way, my name is Angela. I have four daughters, and while we
> don't exactly unschool (I'm too afraid of family reactions amongThe only people that you have to answer to about how you raise your children
> other things), we're closer to that on the continuum than anything
> else I can put a finger on. We live in Bothell, Washington. I'm
> enjoying this list a great deal.
are your children. :-)
--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Ask me how you can save 60% on some of our most favorite products!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]