Christy Putnam

First let me preface this with the fact that my sister does not agree with
anything I ever do. She doesn't respect me or my parenting style, ever
(even when I was super strict), she doesn't respect me being pagan, and
doesn't even attempt to understand any of it. I was at her house in Tulsa,
OK yesterday and today. I am not sure why I even attempt to do things with
her other than she *is* my sister and our boys are close in age. Her kids
are in public school and tonz of activities (I am not sure how they ever
connect as a family). The below all happened after she had yelled "no" at
Aden several times for trying to touch an UNCOVERED wall socket that was at
his eye level and had a red button on it (you know those kind that you can
reset)...needless to say I should have just gone home at that point...

That said, I know she doesn't understand our decision to homeschool and when
she asked, "So, how do you homeschool? What do you do? Do you set aside
time each day to work on things?" I knew she was looking to judge me and
what I do. I am an open & honest person but know with her that she doesn't
really listen because her mind is already made up to judge me so I don't say
too much. So my reply was, "We learn by living life. Through things he is
interested in." She asked, "How do you do homeschooling, I mean do you just
tell people you are homeschooling or what?" I told her that in Oklahoma we
are not required to notify anyone of homeschooling. She asked, "Well aren't
there tests he has to take to make sure he is learning what he is supposed
to be learning?" I said, "No, no testing required." She then asked, "Do
you have a curriculum? Does the state have one you have to go by?" I said,
"No, no curriculum." She asked. " Well what about grades? He has to test
to get into college, what about that? Is he going to college?" I said, "We
don't need grades and he will go to college if he wants to go to college and
we will cross those bridges when we come to them." She said "How does he
learn Trig or Calculus?" I said, "Why does he have to learn that?" She
said, "You know what I mean. How does he learn history or English?" (to
which I should have said, shockingly "He doesn't know English? Oh my, I am
not sure what language I speak then!" but of course I held my tongue) I
just said something like "we learn what he wants to learn. He learns the
same way you and I do...if he wants to find something out he does and I help
him. Same as a baby (referring to my 15 mo old), they learn things they
want to learn." I then said, "Look, I know it is not easy to understand
because it is outside the norm but it is more about trusting him, trusting
the process." I don't remember what was said after that but she was
obviously very irritated that I was so relaxed and unmoved by the
questions...so much so that I even worried about her calling DHS on me or
something. Then, this morning it was just her and him in the living room (I
was just in the other room and could hear everything) and she asked him "So
Seth, what are you learning about?" To which he offhandedly replied,
"Animals." She asked, "What kind of animals?" and he said, "Fish." She said
"Oh, like at the aquarium" (we had gone to Tulsa to participate in a
homeschooling day class at the Oklahoma Aquarium on Tuesday (the whole
reason we were there in the first place) He answered "yes," and it was
dropped. She later asked me if he was in any sports. I replied, "not right
now...we start swim lessons next week which conflicts with the sports
schedules...blah blah blah" she said "oh so he is getting some exercise
then" (Seth is on the larger side and does have some "fat rolls" but he is
not and never has been an unhealthy boy). I figure she had a 2 fold reason
for asking about sports...the "fat rolls" and socialization...since that is
such a hard thing to get when homeschooling (yeah right).

So I wrote the above very long intro to ask how to reply to this email I
just got from my...well meaning....sister. I am so mad right now I could
just send a really nasty email but I want to send one that is "above that"
with facts to back up what I say...basically a logical reply, not an
emotional one. I would like it to include something about the fact that I
am not an idiot and I do know what is available and do know what I am doing
and that she should trust that I am not going to do anything to harm or
jeopardize Seth or Aden's future...I just don't know how to do it right this
minute with all this anger energy welling up inside of me. I would
appreciate any help you all could give in how I could reply with respect,
love and peace...as that is what I would like to model in all instances.
Anyway, here is the email she sent me:

When we were talking I was amazed about the laws with the state on
homeschooling. I checked into what you said to find out more about it and
found out that when the legislation passed to allow homeschooling they
didn't apply any requirements to it because the state would have to pay for
it [I have never read that this is the reason].
They do however "strongly suggest"
that you use the "pass skills" guidelines provided by the state and document
progress.
If for any reason a child would re-enter public or private schools most are
required to pass certain criteria to be admitted into each grade.
Students who are homeschooled will "not" have a highschool diploma or the
equivilant!
"Some" junior colleges will accept homeschooled students with remediation.
Other junior colleges and major universities require homeschool children to
pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.
There is a good website that has the PASS SKILLS and other interesting
information: it is www.sde.state.ok.us <http://www.sde.state.ok.us/>
It also looked like there were good phone numbers to call for more
information.

Didn't know if you knew any of this....just wanted to let you know what I
had found.

In Gratitude,

Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)

<http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance

"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kristie Cochran

I'd just say, "Thanks, I already knew that. I do appreciate your
interest in homeschooling. Thanks for letting us stay with you. We had
a great time at the aquarium." And just leave it at that. Don't give
her an "in" to write you another email on the subject.

This is akin to the "bean dip" response to unwanted advice. "Thanks,
and please pass the bean dip."

Kristie

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 3/29/06, Christy Putnam <personal_balance@...> wrote:
>
> First let me preface this with the fact that my sister does not agree with
> anything I ever do. She doesn't respect me or my parenting style, ever
> (even when I was super strict), she doesn't respect me being pagan, and
> doesn't even attempt to understand any of it.



It sounds like your sister will never be happy with anything that you do.
So I wouldn't try to explain anything. Even if you had a great curriculum
with a well-laid out "master plan" so your children could get into college,
a rigorous diet and exercise program and structured socialisation activities
she probably still wouldn't be satisfied. She sounds like she is the type
that is critical of anything that is outside of her walls.

The best thing that you can do is to keep living your life for you and your
family. Give her basic answers and make sure that you present yourself with
a positive attitude about whatever it is you are doing.

I, too, have a son who is rounder in the middle than most kids his age. He
doesn't like sports. His idea of going outside and playing is to go sit in
the grass and watch the ants carry things or to water our new garden and
inspect the progress of our seedlings. Sometimes he will fly an airplane or
play at some made up game. He enjoys watching tv, playing video and
computer games, cooking and other sedentary things. In the summer we go
to a friend's pool and swim once a week or so (the kids are marking down to
April 1st when she said we can return) and he enjoys that but I wouldn't
call him a "swimmer" (it looks a whole lot like thrashing around in the
water.) I get comments from my mother all the time (she is much like your
sister and always "testing" the kids to see if they know things.)
"Shouldn't you limit his food?" (We do to a point as he has problems with
self-regulation in many areas of his life.) "Is he going to play (fill in
name of sport here) this season?" "What does his doctor say about his
weight?" (What doctor - she knows we don't go to one unless we are sick to
the point of needing one.) It's a constant barage of questions evertime I'm
over there. So I don't go over there often. And fortunately, she has the
common sense not to bring those things up at my house.

If you are happy with your life, then you don't need to answer to anyone
else, even your sister. I did, though, once tell my mom, "Do you not trust
that I would do what I believe is best for my children?" It helped cut out
the nosy questions, but she just got more sly in how she went about "asking"
them





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Catch our new wave of color!
Book a March show!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

I agree with Kristie -- that approach, gee, thanks, I did know that,
and I appreciate your concern, and drop the hsing topic, is probably
the best. Generally, if I can put a positive spin on someone's
motives -- in this case, that she truly cares about your children's
well-being -- then I do. Makes me a happier person, and if I'm
wrong, I will be happy to walk in ignorance.

As for some other things -- well, did she never see public schooled
kids with love handles? I sure have! "Official" PE doesn't prevent
that!

I commend you for waiting, taking a deep breath, and taking the high
road. It may not be easy, but you'll sleep better!

Linda

--- In [email protected], "Christy Putnam"
<personal_balance@...> wrote:
>
> First let me preface this with the fact that my sister does not
agree with
> anything I ever do. She doesn't respect me or my parenting style,
ever
> (even when I was super strict), she doesn't respect me being pagan,
and
> doesn't even attempt to understand any of it. I was at her house
in Tulsa,
> OK yesterday and today. I am not sure why I even attempt to do
things with
> her other than she *is* my sister and our boys are close in age.
Her kids
> are in public school and tonz of activities (I am not sure how they
ever
> connect as a family). The below all happened after she had
yelled "no" at
> Aden several times for trying to touch an UNCOVERED wall socket
that was at
> his eye level and had a red button on it (you know those kind that
you can
> reset)...needless to say I should have just gone home at that
point...
>
> That said, I know she doesn't understand our decision to homeschool
and when
> she asked, "So, how do you homeschool? What do you do? Do you set
aside
> time each day to work on things?" I knew she was looking to judge
me and
> what I do. I am an open & honest person but know with her that she
doesn't
> really listen because her mind is already made up to judge me so I
don't say
> too much. So my reply was, "We learn by living life. Through
things he is
> interested in." She asked, "How do you do homeschooling, I mean do
you just
> tell people you are homeschooling or what?" I told her that in
Oklahoma we
> are not required to notify anyone of homeschooling. She
asked, "Well aren't
> there tests he has to take to make sure he is learning what he is
supposed
> to be learning?" I said, "No, no testing required." She then
asked, "Do
> you have a curriculum? Does the state have one you have to go by?"
I said,
> "No, no curriculum." She asked. " Well what about grades? He has
to test
> to get into college, what about that? Is he going to college?" I
said, "We
> don't need grades and he will go to college if he wants to go to
college and
> we will cross those bridges when we come to them." She said "How
does he
> learn Trig or Calculus?" I said, "Why does he have to learn that?"
She
> said, "You know what I mean. How does he learn history or
English?" (to
> which I should have said, shockingly "He doesn't know English? Oh
my, I am
> not sure what language I speak then!" but of course I held my
tongue) I
> just said something like "we learn what he wants to learn. He
learns the
> same way you and I do...if he wants to find something out he does
and I help
> him. Same as a baby (referring to my 15 mo old), they learn things
they
> want to learn." I then said, "Look, I know it is not easy to
understand
> because it is outside the norm but it is more about trusting him,
trusting
> the process." I don't remember what was said after that but she was
> obviously very irritated that I was so relaxed and unmoved by the
> questions...so much so that I even worried about her calling DHS on
me or
> something. Then, this morning it was just her and him in the
living room (I
> was just in the other room and could hear everything) and she asked
him "So
> Seth, what are you learning about?" To which he offhandedly replied,
> "Animals." She asked, "What kind of animals?" and he said, "Fish."
She said
> "Oh, like at the aquarium" (we had gone to Tulsa to participate in a
> homeschooling day class at the Oklahoma Aquarium on Tuesday (the
whole
> reason we were there in the first place) He answered "yes," and it
was
> dropped. She later asked me if he was in any sports. I
replied, "not right
> now...we start swim lessons next week which conflicts with the
sports
> schedules...blah blah blah" she said "oh so he is getting some
exercise
> then" (Seth is on the larger side and does have some "fat rolls"
but he is
> not and never has been an unhealthy boy). I figure she had a 2
fold reason
> for asking about sports...the "fat rolls" and socialization...since
that is
> such a hard thing to get when homeschooling (yeah right).
>
> So I wrote the above very long intro to ask how to reply to this
email I
> just got from my...well meaning....sister. I am so mad right now I
could
> just send a really nasty email but I want to send one that
is "above that"
> with facts to back up what I say...basically a logical reply, not an
> emotional one. I would like it to include something about the fact
that I
> am not an idiot and I do know what is available and do know what I
am doing
> and that she should trust that I am not going to do anything to
harm or
> jeopardize Seth or Aden's future...I just don't know how to do it
right this
> minute with all this anger energy welling up inside of me. I would
> appreciate any help you all could give in how I could reply with
respect,
> love and peace...as that is what I would like to model in all
instances.
> Anyway, here is the email she sent me:
>
> When we were talking I was amazed about the laws with the state on
> homeschooling. I checked into what you said to find out more about
it and
> found out that when the legislation passed to allow homeschooling
they
> didn't apply any requirements to it because the state would have to
pay for
> it [I have never read that this is the reason].
> They do however "strongly suggest"
> that you use the "pass skills" guidelines provided by the state and
document
> progress.
> If for any reason a child would re-enter public or private schools
most are
> required to pass certain criteria to be admitted into each grade.
> Students who are homeschooled will "not" have a highschool diploma
or the
> equivilant!
> "Some" junior colleges will accept homeschooled students with
remediation.
> Other junior colleges and major universities require homeschool
children to
> pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.
> There is a good website that has the PASS SKILLS and other
interesting
> information: it is www.sde.state.ok.us
<http://www.sde.state.ok.us/>
> It also looked like there were good phone numbers to call for more
> information.
>
> Didn't know if you knew any of this....just wanted to let you know
what I
> had found.
>
> In Gratitude,
>
> Christy Putnam
> Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
> Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
>
> <http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
> http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
>
> "Go confidently in the direction of your
> dreams. Live the life you have always
> imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sylvia Toyama

Well, let's see. Your first option is to ignore her email outright. Or you could tell her you've said all you're going to on the topic, then refuse to answer future emails on this subject. You could suggest that you and she can discuss un/homeschooling only once she's read at least 2 (or whatever number appeals to you) books, chosen by you, about the topic. Maybe she could read something by John Holt and Rue's book, or Sandra's book. Then, at least you and she would be on equal footing. Or maybe she'd refuse to read anything, and you could agree to disagree and not talk about it.

My sister and I used to disagree about it, tho not strongly because we've always had very different styles. Then, last February she pulled her kids out of school, and gradually she's landed in unschooling her daughter (her son has chosen to return to high school in the fall). This September, she hopes to give a funshop at the Live & Learn! So, we went from disagreeing to me bringing her over to our side!

Anyway, some idea for how to reply if you decide to:

"If for any reason a child would re-enter public or private schools most are required to pass certain criteria to be admitted into each grade."

Okay, so if they decide to attend school, they'll take a test. Often, the same is true for kids moving from one state to another, regardless of school attendance. This is done to better assess what incoming students might need in remediation.

****
Students who are homeschooled will "not" have a highschool diploma or the equivilant!

People (even non-students) who take and pass the GED will have a diploma -- and maybe they'll even be able to spell equivalent correctly! And they could take the GED earlier than they would have graduated -- should they find a need to do so -- and be ahead of their peers.

*****

"Some" junior colleges will accept homeschooled students with remediation.

Total crap -- virtually all junior (community) colleges accept anyone whose check doesn't bounce.

*****

Other junior colleges and major universities require homeschool children to pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.

Last time I checked, all universities required students to have passed either the ACT (for instate graduates) or the SAT (out of state or private schools) for admission, even with a public high school diploma. It's a condition for all applicants, not just homeschoolers. Otherwise, why would so many high school juniors bother to take the SAT at all? What a stupid statement.

Of course, feel free to be nicer to your sister than I have been above.

Sylvia




Mom to Will (21) Andy (9) and Dan (5)

Let the beauty you love be what you do -- Rumi









---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 3/29/06, Sylvia Toyama <sylgt04@...> wrote:
>
>
> *****
>
> Other junior colleges and major universities require homeschool children
> to pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.
>
> Last time I checked, all universities required students to have passed
> either the ACT (for instate graduates) or the SAT (out of state or private
> schools) for admission, even with a public high school diploma. It's a
> condition for all applicants, not just homeschoolers. Otherwise, why would
> so many high school juniors bother to take the SAT at all? What a stupid
> statement.


And the SAT's are scored in the hundreds not the twenties. I scored a 27 on
my ACT and my composite score for my SAT was in the 900's. I used to be so
smart LOL! So if someone only needed to score in the high 20's on the
SAT to be admitted to college I suppose they just needed to show up and be
able to fill their name out.

When people start giving me bogus information about the "future of my
children" I tend to send them to the military academy FAQ page which covers
the admittance of homeschooled kids into military academies. Here is the
link to the Naval Academy: http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/steps.htm

And I tell them that if my child wishes to attend the Naval Academy (we come
from multiple generations of sailors) then they will work towards these
requirements.





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Catch our new wave of color!
Book a March show!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Priscilla Sanstead

Christy,
It will get easier with your family. Right now she may
be really threatened that your decision to homeschool
says that her decision to public school is stupid and
wrong, and she wants to be right. And a lot of what
she is saying is just the programming that everyone in
this country has had about how that's the only way to
raise and educate children---let the schools (experts)
do it. Your calm answers to her questions are the best
way to hanlde it right now. Do you have a homeschool
state organization that has a brochure for relatives?
My California one has one for grandparents. Maybe if
you found some brief article about reasons people
homeschool that would help her.

My daughter is almost 13. I pulled her out of PS 3
weeks into fifth grade. We never did baby talk. I
never rode around in the car with music blaring---we
chatted about what we saw driving down the rode and
she learned stuff from me. We went through houses
under construction and talked about how they bould
houses. We went to the DMV at age 2 1/2 and got a
driver's brochure full of road sign because she loved
the, and she learned them all. Then we cut them out
and put them on toothpicks and cork pieces to be signs
in her Thomas train village. School was boooooring
after mom. The teachers would say "Oh you can work
with her when she gets home" Well, she was tired from
all that stnding in line and waiting for other people
to finish and all that school junk. We have lived a
life of revering books and knowledge, and watch tv for
the fun of history, PBS specials, technology stuff,
etc. We don't watch the junk on all the other
channels.
She never valued the popular junk and stupid parts of
American culture (like movie star/sports star
worship).
Of course she didn't fit in at PS. She is very behind
on math but advanced on other stuff. The local
community college here in California will take her
under the Category called "Special Admit", and so she
is going to take "Philosophy of Religion", some fancy
advanced computer class, and maybe "Psychology" (she
already read the children's psych textbook that she
found at a used book store. Did they ask for her
SAT/ACT? No. Did they ask for her math? No. Am I
worried? No. (Look up www.avc.edu and go to the
admissions section and you can read it for
yourself)When she needs to learn math, she will, the
motivation will be there. You don't teach a child, you
get out of the way while they learn. You provide them
with books and things and little or big field trips
about what THEY are interested in. My daughter was
great in math in kindergarten, but that stupid Saxon
math curricula and teachers that didn't want to go for
the extra work destroyed her love of it. She actually
cried for a Math Camp after kindergarten. I should
have started homeschooling now. You are giving you
child the best gift imaginable. My child has plenty of
time to learn stuff she will need to have a college
major and go to some 4 year college. I have an MBA, I
don't know any trig, and the liitle calculus I know
from "Economics of the Firm" in summer school went out
the window long ago. I cried and got a tutor and
passed it by the skin of my teeth.

Many colleges really want Homeschoolers because they
are so self motivated. Look at the website for UC
Riverside (CA), and go to the link about admissions
and making a portfolio for homeschoolers. You won't
believe how easy it is. Of course I don't mean college
is easy, but if your child wants to go after being
homeschooled, they can.

I'm getting ticked off about you sister!

Get a John Gatto book from the library for emotional
support. Let your sister know in your kindest voice
that she has a choice, too, and you'd like her to
respect your choice. Boy, if you could homeschool
together it would be so good for the kids.
Good luck!
Priscilla
--- Christy Putnam <personal_balance@...> wrote:

> First let me preface this with the fact that my
> sister does not agree with
> anything I ever do. She doesn't respect me or my
> parenting style, ever
> (even when I was super strict), she doesn't respect
> me being pagan, and
> doesn't even attempt to understand any of it. I was
> at her house in Tulsa,
> OK yesterday and today. I am not sure why I even
> attempt to do things with
> her other than she *is* my sister and our boys are
> close in age. Her kids
> are in public school and tonz of activities (I am
> not sure how they ever
> connect as a family). The below all happened after
> she had yelled "no" at
> Aden several times for trying to touch an UNCOVERED
> wall socket that was at
> his eye level and had a red button on it (you know
> those kind that you can
> reset)...needless to say I should have just gone
> home at that point...
>
> That said, I know she doesn't understand our
> decision to homeschool and when
> she asked, "So, how do you homeschool? What do you
> do? Do you set aside
> time each day to work on things?" I knew she was
> looking to judge me and
> what I do. I am an open & honest person but know
> with her that she doesn't
> really listen because her mind is already made up to
> judge me so I don't say
> too much. So my reply was, "We learn by living
> life. Through things he is
> interested in." She asked, "How do you do
> homeschooling, I mean do you just
> tell people you are homeschooling or what?" I told
> her that in Oklahoma we
> are not required to notify anyone of homeschooling.
> She asked, "Well aren't
> there tests he has to take to make sure he is
> learning what he is supposed
> to be learning?" I said, "No, no testing required."
> She then asked, "Do
> you have a curriculum? Does the state have one you
> have to go by?" I said,
> "No, no curriculum." She asked. " Well what about
> grades? He has to test
> to get into college, what about that? Is he going
> to college?" I said, "We
> don't need grades and he will go to college if he
> wants to go to college and
> we will cross those bridges when we come to them."
> She said "How does he
> learn Trig or Calculus?" I said, "Why does he have
> to learn that?" She
> said, "You know what I mean. How does he learn
> history or English?" (to
> which I should have said, shockingly "He doesn't
> know English? Oh my, I am
> not sure what language I speak then!" but of course
> I held my tongue) I
> just said something like "we learn what he wants to
> learn. He learns the
> same way you and I do...if he wants to find
> something out he does and I help
> him. Same as a baby (referring to my 15 mo old),
> they learn things they
> want to learn." I then said, "Look, I know it is
> not easy to understand
> because it is outside the norm but it is more about
> trusting him, trusting
> the process." I don't remember what was said after
> that but she was
> obviously very irritated that I was so relaxed and
> unmoved by the
> questions...so much so that I even worried about her
> calling DHS on me or
> something. Then, this morning it was just her and
> him in the living room (I
> was just in the other room and could hear
> everything) and she asked him "So
> Seth, what are you learning about?" To which he
> offhandedly replied,
> "Animals." She asked, "What kind of animals?" and
> he said, "Fish." She said
> "Oh, like at the aquarium" (we had gone to Tulsa to
> participate in a
> homeschooling day class at the Oklahoma Aquarium on
> Tuesday (the whole
> reason we were there in the first place) He answered
> "yes," and it was
> dropped. She later asked me if he was in any
> sports. I replied, "not right
> now...we start swim lessons next week which
> conflicts with the sports
> schedules...blah blah blah" she said "oh so he is
> getting some exercise
> then" (Seth is on the larger side and does have some
> "fat rolls" but he is
> not and never has been an unhealthy boy). I figure
> she had a 2 fold reason
> for asking about sports...the "fat rolls" and
> socialization...since that is
> such a hard thing to get when homeschooling (yeah
> right).
>
> So I wrote the above very long intro to ask how to
> reply to this email I
> just got from my...well meaning....sister. I am so
> mad right now I could
> just send a really nasty email but I want to send
> one that is "above that"
> with facts to back up what I say...basically a
> logical reply, not an
> emotional one. I would like it to include something
> about the fact that I
> am not an idiot and I do know what is available and
> do know what I am doing
> and that she should trust that I am not going to do
> anything to harm or
> jeopardize Seth or Aden's future...I just don't know
> how to do it right this
> minute with all this anger energy welling up inside
> of me. I would
> appreciate any help you all could give in how I
> could reply with respect,
> love and peace...as that is what I would like to
> model in all instances.
> Anyway, here is the email she sent me:
>
> When we were talking I was amazed about the laws
> with the state on
> homeschooling. I checked into what you said to find
> out more about it and
> found out that when the legislation passed to allow
> homeschooling they
> didn't apply any requirements to it because the
> state would have to pay for
> it [I have never read that this is the reason].
> They do however "strongly suggest"
> that you use the "pass skills" guidelines provided
> by the state and document
> progress.
> If for any reason a child would re-enter public or
> private schools most are
> required to pass certain criteria to be admitted
> into each grade.
> Students who are homeschooled will "not" have a
> highschool diploma or the
> equivilant!
> "Some" junior colleges will accept homeschooled
> students with remediation.
> Other junior colleges and major universities require
> homeschool children to
> pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.
> There is a good website that has the PASS SKILLS and
> other interesting
> information: it is www.sde.state.ok.us
> <http://www.sde.state.ok.us/>
> It also looked like there were good phone numbers to
> call for more
> information.
>
> Didn't know if you knew any of this....just wanted
> to let you know what I
> had found.
>
> In Gratitude,
>
> Christy Putnam
> Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
> Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)
>
> <http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
> http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance
>
> "Go confidently in the direction of your
> dreams. Live the life you have always
> imagined." - Henry David Thoreau
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Melissa

Christy,
As a fellow Oklahoman, I have to say to your sister...pblt! Sylvia
pretty much covered everything as far as college and high school,
most of the information from your sister was pure scare tactic,
hoping to freak you out and get you to change your mind about
unschooling. If you move from one district to another you get tested,
so I don't know why it's such a big deal to get tested to get into a
school if you've been homeschooling.

As far as the reason that the legislation to allow homeschooling,
there are no requirements because Oklahoma wanted to remain a state
that facilitates homeschooling. They wanted to allow the parents to
choose how to teach their own children.
Homeschooling parents can make their own diploma's, and it is
legitimate. Although no college asks for a copy of a diploma, they do
ask for a transcript. Most colleges make allowance for homeschoolers
however, including OU, OSU, Harvard, Yale, and every single junior
college known to man. OU's requirements are ACT of 24, and SAT of
1000. That's it. Not even terribly high scores. I know that smaller
universities and colleges have scores of 16 to 18 for admission.
You know, it just makes me mad for you...because she was obviously
exaggerating the facts to try and scare you. The more experienced
people will tell you just to smile and keep your thoughts to
yourself, but I'd be mad. I'd call her on it! I'd reply that most of
that is bogus and that you don't appreciate that kind of input.

But then you can tell what kind of sister I am, I'm the oldest and no
one argues with me ;-) Then again, i would never in my life consider
telling friends or family that what they were doing with their child
was wrong. I would passionately defend what I'm doing, but never say
that school was wrong because of x, y, or z.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose

share our lives at
http://360.yahoo.com/multimomma



On Mar 29, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Christy Putnam wrote:
>
> When we were talking I was amazed about the laws with the state on
> homeschooling. I checked into what you said to find out more about
> it and
> found out that when the legislation passed to allow homeschooling they
> didn't apply any requirements to it because the state would have to
> pay for
> it [I have never read that this is the reason].
> They do however "strongly suggest"
> that you use the "pass skills" guidelines provided by the state and
> document
> progress.
> If for any reason a child would re-enter public or private schools
> most are
> required to pass certain criteria to be admitted into each grade.
> Students who are homeschooled will "not" have a highschool diploma
> or the
> equivilant!
> "Some" junior colleges will accept homeschooled students with
> remediation.
> Other junior colleges and major universities require homeschool
> children to
> pass the SAT test in the high 20's to be admitted.
> There is a good website that has the PASS SKILLS and other interesting
> information: it is www.sde.state.ok.us <http://www.sde.state.ok.us/>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

deirdreaycock

--- In [email protected], "Christy Putnam"
<personal_balance@...> wrote:
>
> First let me preface this with the fact that my sister does not
agree with
> anything I ever do.
> Anyway, here is the email she sent me:
>
Christy - I have got a sister just like yours!!!!! My brothers
taught me how to deal with it, though. When we all get together,
they eat and leave! "Well, that was wonderful! Bye!"
And that is exactly how I handle this with my sisters and mother-in-
law. To the specific email you shared with us, my sister would get
a reply that has nothing to do with what she wrote. Leave what she
wrote in the email so she can tell you got it.

And I would keep your visits with her to a minimum. I think family
is highly over-rated. If this were a mere friend we were talking
about, you wouldn't care so much about what she thought, first of
all. And secondly, you wouldn't hesitate to end the friendship if
she persisted in trying to make you feel incompetent.

Deirdre

dana_burdick

It sounds like from your post that your sister and you have a
strained relationship. If you were discussing say, what is the best
way to invest money, would you automatically disagree? Or, would
you automatically disagree on something less important such as what
is the best way to cook a turkey. In other words, is any topic
fodder for disagreement? Or, are their levels of disagreements?
Where does your relationship sit, in general and where does
unschooling sit overall in this relationship? What type of
relationship do you want to have with her? Maybe this will help you
the next time an unschooling discussion begins. Instead of
defending your choice to unschool, you might take the opportunity to
build the relationship you want to have with her. If you are
distant any way, maybe a `pass the dip' response is appropriate.
You might consider this only if you are truly at peace with this.
If you have a closer, more amiable relationship in general or want
to work toward a better relationship, then maybe working with her to
understand her fears is more appropriate. She seems to be very
fearful of the outcome for your child. Perhaps you can say that
directly to her. "I sense that you have some fears about the
outcome of our approach to education. Is this right?" If you are
quiet after saying that, then she may begin to open up a bit more
with her deeper concerns. This approach takes energy and a true
desire to understand her side. The knee-jerk reaction to this is
that you will cut her off too soon and begin defending your
position. I would recommend not defending your position at all, but
put the ball in her court to allow her to fully express her feelings
and concerns. Turn yourself momentarily into a therapist of sorts.
Then, in turn, you may express your own concerns for your child.
You may find that you are closer in your fears and concerns than you
think. The topic turns then from a discussion of unschooling, to
concerns about children, in general. I'm not suggesting that after
this everyone walks away agreeing, but your sister may feel that her
concerns are heard more clearly and she may be more thoughtful
before speaking out critically the next time.

If your sister continues to be critical whenever the discussion
comes up, then you can repeat the process, but this time be honest
with her about how you feel when she is critical. To express your
feelings clearly, you might have to take the time to be honest with
yourself and clear in your own mind what you are feeling exactly –
not always an easy task.

Peace,
-Dana

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/29/2006 10:08:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
DanaBurdick@... writes:

Perhaps you can say that
directly to her. "I sense that you have some fears about the
outcome of our approach to education. Is this right?"


************

Christy, I am so sorry about your sister. It is so hard not to have the
support of people we care about.

I saw what Dana wrote above, I was thinking in a similar way. Perhaps a
simple answer of "I appreciate how much you care about my children"....making
sure it isn't sarcastic :-)

So many people instinctively lash out at those going "against the tribe".
Know in your heart that this is their issue, not yours.

Hugs, Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christy Putnam

I appreciate all of the replies I have received so far (keep them coming if
you want). I like the "pass the dip" reply but I feel like I have been
doing that reply all my life with her in an effort to keep the peace so this
goes much deeper than anyone can ever know. I have always been one to let
people live as they will (as long as they aren't hurting anyone physically)
so I am the same with her. The problem comes in that she doesn't hesitate
to openly question/judge everything I do. A big part of me wants to reply
to this pointing that out and telling her that if she chooses not to respect
my choices as a person and mother, when I respect hers then I cant put
myself in that position any longer. I choose to not speak to her about any
'taboo subjects" such as parenting, schooling, religion, sexual orientation,
or politics. If she feels the need to talk about those topics with me then
I will have to sever the relationship.

It is also really tempting to point out the false statements she put in the
email. More to show that I am not an idiot and I do know what I am talking
about and doing...but also to say "in your face!" the reason I would
probably not do that is she would see it as a challenge and find everything
she can to discredit homeschooling. One thing I might say is to acknowledge
that there is ample ways to make ourselves "right" and find everything to
support our own positions. There are always people that will agree with us
and research to support it. it all depends on what you are looking for. in
that respect I think anyone looking for understanding in a topic should try
to prove themselves wrong...find the research that supports the others
persons view as opposed to finding everything that agrees with your view. I
am parenting from my heart with what resonates with me, not based on
research and statistics...though my dh would prefer that...lol I KNOW in my
heart that this works and I am not out to prove it to anyone, nor do I have
to. My kids are loved and supported to the fullest extent possible every
moment of every day (I am still learning and obtaining creative ways to
"reprogram" us out of the distance PS and strict parenting brought us).

Really the ONLY reasons we ever talk are 1) family activities/holiday plans
and 2) our older sons are the same age and love to spend time together
whenever possible. She lives 2 hrs away from me and we are both busy
families so trips to see "each other" are few and far between. If the kids
weren't so close I wouldn't mind severing ties and only being civil at
family functions.

I think the reason this affects me so much is that this type of behavior has
been going on all of my life with her and it is calling my mothering into
question...as if she doesn't think I am worthy of being a mother. I would
feel this way regardless of the person...the issue comes in the appropriate
response that focuses on the positives and it centered in love, not fear.
If it were a stranger or just an acquaintance, it would be much easier to
tell them to mind their own business and leave us alone...lovingly, knowing
I would most likely never see them again. But with her and any family
member or close friend, it has to be more thought out.

I appreciate the well wishes and ideas of how to reply to her. I am glad to
have this group to bounce ideas/thoughts off of and help me through this
process of retraining myself to be a more engaged mother. I will appreciate
any more replies people might have. I have made a decision to not reply to
her until I am completely centered in love about it all...maybe as late as
next week..lol


In Gratitude,

Christy Putnam
Unschooling Mom to Aden (1) and Seth (11)
Loving wife of Chet (ann. 7/4/04)

<http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance>
http://blog.myspace.com/personal_balance

"Go confidently in the direction of your
dreams. Live the life you have always
imagined." - Henry David Thoreau




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pampered Chef Michelle

On 3/30/06, Christy Putnam <personal_balance@...> wrote:
>
>
> It is also really tempting to point out the false statements she put in
> the
> email. More to show that I am not an idiot and I do know what I am
> talking
> about and doing...but also to say "in your face!" the reason I would
> probably not do that is she would see it as a challenge and find
> everything
> she can to discredit homeschooling.


Which would be difficult to do with anything more than antecdotal
references. The statistical studies show that home educated children tend
to do as well as if not exceed their traditionally educated counterparts.
The articles that I have read that discredit homeschooling are written by
either uninformed individuals who have no information than what they make up
in their heads or by those that are basing their entire homeschool
information data on one poor example (and usually they are seeing that
example from an exterior viewpoint - some family at church or that they see
around town or know of through a friend of a friend.) I find that the
articles written by those in the "education field" can't argue the learning
aspect based on statistics, so they tend to argue points such as limited
exposure to extra curricular activities (that means sports, cheerleading,
chorus and band) or poor socialisation skills. And most of the time these
articles a written based on their hypothesis, not based on anything that
proves their hypothesis. They assume that home educated families are
secluded and have no resources to provide sports, drama, music or art.

I got into an argument with someone once who e-mailed me because of
something I said on my website once (I don't have that website anymore) He
was adamant that I was ruining my children's futures because they were
isolated, unsocialised and limited in what they could study. He kept
throwing all these numbers at me from some supposed study. I kept thinking,
"WTF? Where is he getting these numbers from?" So finally I asked him for
citation of his statistics and he suddenly was no longer interested in
discussing it with me. He made me out to be the one that was accusational.
I googled some of the stuff he was sending me and could find it no where.
So obviously he was making it all up!





--
Michelle
Independent Kitchen Consultant #413652
The Pampered Chef
850-474-0817
http://www.pamperedchef.biz/michellelr
Catch our new wave of color!
Book a March show!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

trektheory

No advice, but lots of hugs sent your way. I can understand not
wanting to cut your son's relationship with his cousin off, so it is
a tricky balancing act for you, isn't it?

You can pick your friends, you can pick your enemies, but you can't
pick your friend's nose -- wait, that is you can't pick your
family. ;-)

No matter what she says, you are doing what is best for YOUR family -
- and that is what counts.

Linda

--- In [email protected], "Christy Putnam"
<personal_balance@...> wrote:
>
> The problem comes in that she doesn't hesitate
> to openly question/judge everything I do. A big part of me wants
to reply
> to this pointing that out and telling her that if she chooses not
to respect
> my choices as a person and mother, when I respect hers then I cant
put
> myself in that position any longer. >

>
> Really the ONLY reasons we ever talk are 1) family
activities/holiday plans
> and 2) our older sons are the same age and love to spend time
together
> whenever possible. She lives 2 hrs away from me and we are both
busy
> families so trips to see "each other" are few and far between. If
the kids
> weren't so close I wouldn't mind severing ties and only being
civil at
> family functions.
>

[email protected]

**I like the "pass the dip" reply but I feel like I have been doing that
reply all my life with her in an effort to keep the peace so this goes much deeper
than anyone can ever know. **

Christy, I highly recommend reading Harriet Lerner's books, The Dance of
Anger and The Dance of Intimacy. They are about getting unstuck from the
repetetive interactions we have with family members. Won't help with homeschooling
issues but may help you to clarify what you want in your relationship, period.

Deborah in IL

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/29/2006 10:03:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
aycock@... writes:


> I think family
> is highly over-rated. If this were a mere friend we were talking
> about, you wouldn't care so much about what she thought, first of
> all. And secondly, you wouldn't hesitate to end the friendship if
> she persisted in trying to make you feel incompetent.
>
>

I agree with you Deirdre so much. My sister happens to be in favor of us
hs'ing, she's even starting to agree with unschooling. Her kids are all older now
and in college so she's not at the same place in life as I am as far as kids
go but she trusts me and my dh that we will do what's best for our kids and I
think she's starting to see the benefits of it already. (we've only been
hs'ing/unschooling for a little over a yr. now) My brother and my Dad on the other
hand, what a pain in the butt! My dh and I have both had family members do some
things to us that we would never allow a friend to do, we decided that just
because they are of the same blood doesn't mean we have to take poor behavior
from them. I certainly wouldn't allow a friend to treat me poorly, being of the
same family does not give them a free ticket to do so either.

Nancy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deb Lewis

It's hard when we feel criticized or erroneously judged by family.

Your sister was hoping to educate you with that e-mail, <g> so that you
would do the right thing by your kids. If you've ever sent a friend or
family member a link to an anti spanking page or some social change
website or other you've done the same thing. It's not so bad.

In this case it *sucks* but it's not so bad. <g>

I recommend staying away from your sister until your confidence in
unschooling has grown.
I don't mean you should strike a line through her name or anything, but
don't go to her house or to family or social events where she will be
until you feel so confident about what your doing that her remarks won't
bother you any more than if she said "you should try some of this
delicious cake." <g> Because she won't be saying "If you don't eat this
cake you're an uninformed, ignorant person making a bad choice."

Avoiding family members doesn't have to be an act of anger or bitterness.
You have the right to do the best thing for yourself and your kids and
the best thing might just be to chill. <g>

When you have more confidence and when your kids are a little older, your
sisters fears will be eased. David's family gave us some trouble about
Dylan in the beginning but it's been years now since any of them has had
anything negative to say.

Try not to be hurt. Easier said than done, I know.

If she calls you or emails you, you don't have to explain anything. You
can say, "Oh, how are you? Sorry I've got to run, catch you later."
If she asks specific questions you are not required in any way to answer
her. You really can say "Sorry sis, gotta go!"

We feel we owe our parents/siblings an explanation of our choices and
decisions. We don't. We get to do what we want. <g>

Later, when your sis sees your kids are normal and undamaged, think how
fun it will be to say "NEENER!" <G> (quietly, to yourself, of course, and
here! ) And you can complain to us if she bugs you. Tell me where she
lives, I'll go muss her up. <g>