On a leash
Ren Allen
"Just thought I'd throw a different perspective out there. Better
a safe child than a lost child."
Yeah. I used to say "better a leash than a toe tag".
I really don't like those damn things, BUT I think they could be used
respectfully, and give the child more roaming space while keeping them
more safe.
If you make them hold your hand in an unsafe place, a leash really
gives them a bit more space to move. As long as you follow them where
they want to explore, it could be ok I suppose.
My thing is that it seems like something you'd do to a pet and I
wouldn't want my child feeling like I was treating them like a lesser
being.
Ren, who never used a leash, but loved slings and backpacks
learninginfreedom.com
a safe child than a lost child."
Yeah. I used to say "better a leash than a toe tag".
I really don't like those damn things, BUT I think they could be used
respectfully, and give the child more roaming space while keeping them
more safe.
If you make them hold your hand in an unsafe place, a leash really
gives them a bit more space to move. As long as you follow them where
they want to explore, it could be ok I suppose.
My thing is that it seems like something you'd do to a pet and I
wouldn't want my child feeling like I was treating them like a lesser
being.
Ren, who never used a leash, but loved slings and backpacks
learninginfreedom.com
scrapgal
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
comment on leashes. I used to have a friend who would say, "If a
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go."
I realize that there are safety issues. I just think there are better
ways (such as attentive parenting) to keep children safe.
One of our children used to be a "dawdler." She was in no hurry to
get anywhere. She took (and still takes) life at her own speed. When
we would go to Disney World, this could be a problem as she would be
one step behind me, then 2, then 5, then somewhere else altogether.
We solved this by attaching bells to her shoes. (Actually we had them
on both the girl's shoes, but had jingle bells on one and small cow-
looking bells on the other - different sounds.) We could tell when
she was lagging behind or had gotten "off course." She loved her
shoes (she had tennis shoes that I had painted like cow print) and her
bells and would ring them for everyone. Our other child thought that
her bells were wonderful because it was like having little fairies at
her toes. And we never lost either of them this way. It was a great
auditory reminder of where our children were. We later implimented
this same bell theory with our son.
I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else.
Michelle - who sometimes is around, but is always round :-)
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>them
> "Just thought I'd throw a different perspective out there. Better
> a safe child than a lost child."
>
> Yeah. I used to say "better a leash than a toe tag".
> I really don't like those damn things, BUT I think they could be used
> respectfully, and give the child more roaming space while keeping
> more safe.(I know, I haven't posted for a long time) I felt, though, a need to
>
>
comment on leashes. I used to have a friend who would say, "If a
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go."
I realize that there are safety issues. I just think there are better
ways (such as attentive parenting) to keep children safe.
One of our children used to be a "dawdler." She was in no hurry to
get anywhere. She took (and still takes) life at her own speed. When
we would go to Disney World, this could be a problem as she would be
one step behind me, then 2, then 5, then somewhere else altogether.
We solved this by attaching bells to her shoes. (Actually we had them
on both the girl's shoes, but had jingle bells on one and small cow-
looking bells on the other - different sounds.) We could tell when
she was lagging behind or had gotten "off course." She loved her
shoes (she had tennis shoes that I had painted like cow print) and her
bells and would ring them for everyone. Our other child thought that
her bells were wonderful because it was like having little fairies at
her toes. And we never lost either of them this way. It was a great
auditory reminder of where our children were. We later implimented
this same bell theory with our son.
I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else.
Michelle - who sometimes is around, but is always round :-)
Ren Allen
""If a
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go.""
Yeah. That's my problem with them. I think that many times parents
take children into places they aren't ready to be in. If a child isn't
prepared for a crowded place, it might be better to wait until they're
older.
Or follow the child to the places they're interested in.
I can see how on occasion, a parent is just trying to keep a child
safe while they know they'll be distracted in a crowd, or with several
children. I just don't think they're the most respectful way to keep a
child safe.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go.""
Yeah. That's my problem with them. I think that many times parents
take children into places they aren't ready to be in. If a child isn't
prepared for a crowded place, it might be better to wait until they're
older.
Or follow the child to the places they're interested in.
I can see how on occasion, a parent is just trying to keep a child
safe while they know they'll be distracted in a crowd, or with several
children. I just don't think they're the most respectful way to keep a
child safe.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
scrapgal
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
while mom goes "shopping" at a mall.
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> Yeah. That's my problem with them. I think that many times parentsisn't
> take children into places they aren't ready to be in. If a child
> prepared for a crowded place, it might be better to wait untilthey're
> older.Amen! I feel so badly for the poor children who are forced to wait
> Or follow the child to the places they're interested in.
>
while mom goes "shopping" at a mall.
S Drag-teine
"I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else."
Yes, I would agree partly. The other part is that when we go to fairs and
festivals - my son wants to look at everything and while I don't have a
problem with that when we enter a crowded booth he could get places I
couldn't and sometimes I couldn't see him. My hearing isn't all that great
especially in crowds - 30% hearing loss from childhood ear infections.
With my son I never really worried that someone would "pick him up and run
off with him." He was a heavy sack o' taters and built like a brick. He has
a sense of strangers and while he will talk to anyone - he even interrupted
me to see if a man at a Ren Faire could give him a piece of candy he was
offered. My daughter is a different story. She is very tall 75 percentile
but only 25 percentile for weight. I might be able to locate her by her
siren scream but if she likes them I would never see her again.
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of scrapgal
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On a leash
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
comment on leashes. I used to have a friend who would say, "If a
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go."
I realize that there are safety issues. I just think there are better
ways (such as attentive parenting) to keep children safe.
One of our children used to be a "dawdler." She was in no hurry to
get anywhere. She took (and still takes) life at her own speed. When
we would go to Disney World, this could be a problem as she would be
one step behind me, then 2, then 5, then somewhere else altogether.
We solved this by attaching bells to her shoes. (Actually we had them
on both the girl's shoes, but had jingle bells on one and small cow-
looking bells on the other - different sounds.) We could tell when
she was lagging behind or had gotten "off course." She loved her
shoes (she had tennis shoes that I had painted like cow print) and her
bells and would ring them for everyone. Our other child thought that
her bells were wonderful because it was like having little fairies at
her toes. And we never lost either of them this way. It was a great
auditory reminder of where our children were. We later implimented
this same bell theory with our son.
I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else.
Michelle - who sometimes is around, but is always round :-)
Yahoo! Groups Links
Yes, I would agree partly. The other part is that when we go to fairs and
festivals - my son wants to look at everything and while I don't have a
problem with that when we enter a crowded booth he could get places I
couldn't and sometimes I couldn't see him. My hearing isn't all that great
especially in crowds - 30% hearing loss from childhood ear infections.
With my son I never really worried that someone would "pick him up and run
off with him." He was a heavy sack o' taters and built like a brick. He has
a sense of strangers and while he will talk to anyone - he even interrupted
me to see if a man at a Ren Faire could give him a piece of candy he was
offered. My daughter is a different story. She is very tall 75 percentile
but only 25 percentile for weight. I might be able to locate her by her
siren scream but if she likes them I would never see her again.
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of scrapgal
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On a leash
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>them
> "Just thought I'd throw a different perspective out there. Better
> a safe child than a lost child."
>
> Yeah. I used to say "better a leash than a toe tag".
> I really don't like those damn things, BUT I think they could be used
> respectfully, and give the child more roaming space while keeping
> more safe.(I know, I haven't posted for a long time) I felt, though, a need to
>
>
comment on leashes. I used to have a friend who would say, "If a
child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a child
doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative way
to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to go."
I realize that there are safety issues. I just think there are better
ways (such as attentive parenting) to keep children safe.
One of our children used to be a "dawdler." She was in no hurry to
get anywhere. She took (and still takes) life at her own speed. When
we would go to Disney World, this could be a problem as she would be
one step behind me, then 2, then 5, then somewhere else altogether.
We solved this by attaching bells to her shoes. (Actually we had them
on both the girl's shoes, but had jingle bells on one and small cow-
looking bells on the other - different sounds.) We could tell when
she was lagging behind or had gotten "off course." She loved her
shoes (she had tennis shoes that I had painted like cow print) and her
bells and would ring them for everyone. Our other child thought that
her bells were wonderful because it was like having little fairies at
her toes. And we never lost either of them this way. It was a great
auditory reminder of where our children were. We later implimented
this same bell theory with our son.
I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else.
Michelle - who sometimes is around, but is always round :-)
Yahoo! Groups Links
Melissa
Everyone asks why my kids are so good at the mall, it's really
because we rarely force them to go when they don't want to. When we
go they want to be there. We usually wind up entertaining some poor
kids hiding in the rack while their moms go through the clothes. LOL!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
because we rarely force them to go when they don't want to. When we
go they want to be there. We usually wind up entertaining some poor
kids hiding in the rack while their moms go through the clothes. LOL!
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
On Mar 20, 2006, at 10:45 AM, scrapgal wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
> <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Amen! I feel so badly for the poor children who are forced to wait
> while mom goes "shopping" at a mall.
>
[email protected]
I think a leash would be a last resort if the kid really balked at it. But I also think that using a leash is no different than using seatbelts, strollers, etc.. A lot of it (like almost everything) depends on your child's nature and the number the kids you have.
Out of 5 kids, I have 2 that disappear regularly. At ages 9 and 7, I am still tracking them down at the park, at the store, at the mall. They have zero fear of situations or strangers. We just didn't go a lot of places when they were small.
Julie S.
Out of 5 kids, I have 2 that disappear regularly. At ages 9 and 7, I am still tracking them down at the park, at the store, at the mall. They have zero fear of situations or strangers. We just didn't go a lot of places when they were small.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: scrapgal <pamperedmichelle@...>
Date: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:02 am
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On a leash
> --- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
> <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> >
> > "Just thought I'd throw a different perspective out there. Better
> > a safe child than a lost child."
> >
> > Yeah. I used to say "better a leash than a toe tag".
> > I really don't like those damn things, BUT I think they could be
> used> respectfully, and give the child more roaming space while
> keeping
> them
> > more safe.
> >
> >
> (I know, I haven't posted for a long time) I felt, though, a need
> to
> comment on leashes. I used to have a friend who would say, "If a
> child wants to go with you, then a leash isn't necessary. If a
> child
> doesn't want to go with you, then you need to find a more creative
> way
> to work with your child to obtain the direction that you wish to
> go."
> I realize that there are safety issues. I just think there are
> better
> ways (such as attentive parenting) to keep children safe.
>
> One of our children used to be a "dawdler." She was in no hurry
> to
> get anywhere. She took (and still takes) life at her own speed.
> When
> we would go to Disney World, this could be a problem as she would
> be
> one step behind me, then 2, then 5, then somewhere else
> altogether.
> We solved this by attaching bells to her shoes. (Actually we had
> them
> on both the girl's shoes, but had jingle bells on one and small
> cow-
> looking bells on the other - different sounds.) We could tell
> when
> she was lagging behind or had gotten "off course." She loved her
> shoes (she had tennis shoes that I had painted like cow print) and
> her
> bells and would ring them for everyone. Our other child thought
> that
> her bells were wonderful because it was like having little fairies
> at
> her toes. And we never lost either of them this way. It was a
> great
> auditory reminder of where our children were. We later
> implimented
> this same bell theory with our son.
>
> I think leashes are more for parents' convenience than anything else.
>
> Michelle - who sometimes is around, but is always round :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
John & Karen Buxcel
on 3/20/06 10:02 AM, scrapgal at pamperedmichelle@... wrote:
Thanks for sharing!
Karen
> It was a greatWhat a neat idea!
> auditory reminder of where our children were.
Thanks for sharing!
Karen
S Drag-teine
I don't know that that is fair. Now I am not much of a shopper, I do most of
it online if I can or at least the pricing by phone - go to store - pick it
up - go home. However, I do like to get out of the house and my son loves
coming too. I do try to compromise like doing what I want until Lunch and
then doing what he wants after lunch.
Not that I am not saying we spend all day at the Ren like we used to before
he was born maybe two to four hours at best or going to the State Fair once
or twice instead of being there all week. If the kids start getting cranky
it is time to go home.
I am trying to get to a question here because I want to fully understand
your point of view.
While crowded places aren't always my cup of tea, my son loves going out
anywhere there are people. Most of them ignore him when he trys to talk to
them. Busy with their own lives usually only elderly take the time to talk
to my very friendly full of questions child. My daughter also has a flair
and loves being around people. While my daughter isn't old enough to
understand barriers or staying close to an adult.
My son (five and half) is known to get distracted or go to look at something
and forget to tell someone. These days he has gotten better about letting us
know he wants to look at something instead of wandering off but if we hadn't
been on outings since he was small, I don't know if he would be as good as
he is now.
My concern is always that maybe I am looking at it wrong. Should we be
keeping the kids in more and go out less? How old should they be? How do you
know when they are ready? Does that include keeping them at home when I run
errands? How does anyone get anything done if you have to keep the kids at
home instead of going out?
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of scrapgal
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On a leash
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
while mom goes "shopping" at a mall.
Yahoo! Groups Links
it online if I can or at least the pricing by phone - go to store - pick it
up - go home. However, I do like to get out of the house and my son loves
coming too. I do try to compromise like doing what I want until Lunch and
then doing what he wants after lunch.
Not that I am not saying we spend all day at the Ren like we used to before
he was born maybe two to four hours at best or going to the State Fair once
or twice instead of being there all week. If the kids start getting cranky
it is time to go home.
I am trying to get to a question here because I want to fully understand
your point of view.
While crowded places aren't always my cup of tea, my son loves going out
anywhere there are people. Most of them ignore him when he trys to talk to
them. Busy with their own lives usually only elderly take the time to talk
to my very friendly full of questions child. My daughter also has a flair
and loves being around people. While my daughter isn't old enough to
understand barriers or staying close to an adult.
My son (five and half) is known to get distracted or go to look at something
and forget to tell someone. These days he has gotten better about letting us
know he wants to look at something instead of wandering off but if we hadn't
been on outings since he was small, I don't know if he would be as good as
he is now.
My concern is always that maybe I am looking at it wrong. Should we be
keeping the kids in more and go out less? How old should they be? How do you
know when they are ready? Does that include keeping them at home when I run
errands? How does anyone get anything done if you have to keep the kids at
home instead of going out?
Shannon
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of scrapgal
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 11:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: On a leash
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen"
<starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> Yeah. That's my problem with them. I think that many times parentsisn't
> take children into places they aren't ready to be in. If a child
> prepared for a crowded place, it might be better to wait untilthey're
> older.Amen! I feel so badly for the poor children who are forced to wait
> Or follow the child to the places they're interested in.
>
while mom goes "shopping" at a mall.
Yahoo! Groups Links
scrapgal
--- In [email protected], "S Drag-teine"
<dragteine@...> wrote:
to "sit and be good" so that mom can do some "leisurely" shopping
for herself. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard
womyn bitch and complain about how badly their children are acting
out when their child has been dragged through the mall all day, not
had any of his needs met (let alone wants), and the only attention
s/he has gotten from mom has been to be yelled out because they are
fussing!
I've had to take an unwilling to child to the store before for
something that was needed (such as medicine or food for a meal) and
it isn't any fun. So why would I want to do this on a regular basis
or all day? Why should I drag my child through a store and make
him/her wait while I try on shoes or clothes or price compare? It's
no fun for me, my child, or the other patrons of that store.
At what age should you take your child to the mall? That's up to
you. But unschooling tells us that forcing our children to endure
activities that neither interest them or are comfortable for them is
just not wrong. Some children would love going shopping with mom.
They would be all immersed into the "art of shoe shopping" and find
trying on countless pairs of shoes fun and entertaining. Other (I
might even say most) children would be bored to tears and find it
insufferable. I also don't think that I should make my child "be
good" so that they can do something that they enjoy afterwards.
I'm fortunate now that my children are old enough to stay home alone
for more than an hour at a time. When I have a shopping venture
that I want to run they have the option of going or staying home.
They know that if they come that it might be boring to them and that
they are going somewhere that they have no interest in. Sometimes,
they just want to go to spend a little time with me or they may feel
housebound because of weather or health issues that going office
supply shopping with mom is more exciting than spending another
minute in the house.
I hope that is a little clearer mud,
Michelle
<dragteine@...> wrote:
>do most of
> I don't know that that is fair. Now I am not much of a shopper, I
> it online if I can or at least the pricing by phone - go to store -pick it
> up - go home. However, I do like to get out of the house and myson loves
> coming too. I do try to compromise like doing what I want untilLunch and
> then doing what he wants after lunch.Please note what I said (*'s added for emphasis)
>
> Amen! I feel so badly for the poor children who are *forced* to*wait*
> while mom goes *"shopping"* at a mall.I'm talking about the kids who is strapped to a stroller and forced
>
to "sit and be good" so that mom can do some "leisurely" shopping
for herself. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard
womyn bitch and complain about how badly their children are acting
out when their child has been dragged through the mall all day, not
had any of his needs met (let alone wants), and the only attention
s/he has gotten from mom has been to be yelled out because they are
fussing!
I've had to take an unwilling to child to the store before for
something that was needed (such as medicine or food for a meal) and
it isn't any fun. So why would I want to do this on a regular basis
or all day? Why should I drag my child through a store and make
him/her wait while I try on shoes or clothes or price compare? It's
no fun for me, my child, or the other patrons of that store.
At what age should you take your child to the mall? That's up to
you. But unschooling tells us that forcing our children to endure
activities that neither interest them or are comfortable for them is
just not wrong. Some children would love going shopping with mom.
They would be all immersed into the "art of shoe shopping" and find
trying on countless pairs of shoes fun and entertaining. Other (I
might even say most) children would be bored to tears and find it
insufferable. I also don't think that I should make my child "be
good" so that they can do something that they enjoy afterwards.
I'm fortunate now that my children are old enough to stay home alone
for more than an hour at a time. When I have a shopping venture
that I want to run they have the option of going or staying home.
They know that if they come that it might be boring to them and that
they are going somewhere that they have no interest in. Sometimes,
they just want to go to spend a little time with me or they may feel
housebound because of weather or health issues that going office
supply shopping with mom is more exciting than spending another
minute in the house.
I hope that is a little clearer mud,
Michelle
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:36 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
happy? Are you able to keep them safe?
It's about living joyful lives, not about following rules.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> My concern is always that maybe I am looking at it wrong. Should we beThe questions you should be asking are: Are they happy? Are you
> keeping the kids in more and go out less? How old should they be?
> How do you
> know when they are ready? Does that include keeping them at home
> when I run
> errands? How does anyone get anything done if you have to keep the
> kids at
> home instead of going out?
happy? Are you able to keep them safe?
It's about living joyful lives, not about following rules.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]