Alison Broadbent

This is my first post here but I guess I'll just jump right in. The area of
bedtimes was one of the easier ones for me. We've all got our places where
it was hard to let go. My son is 4 1/2. When he was a baby, as most of us
probably did, he followed his need for sleep. When he was almost 2, there
was a strange cultural phenomenon that seemed to occur: a strong bias for
starting schedules for children. Everywhere I seemed to look people were
saying how important it was for your child to have them asleep by a certain
time. They said they didn't get the right kind of sleep unless they went to
bed by a certain hour. We co slept and he woke many times and I was
exhausted. The names Weissbluth and Ferber were dangled in front of me. I
knew I wouldn't do that 'crying it out' thing but I was desperate for sleep.
I also knew I wanted to follow his lead in what he needed. I would go to
the grocery store w/ my son at night and vague acquaintances would actually
come up to me and talk to me about how I needed to get him into a routine.
I suppose I looked like shit and so it wasn't hard for people to figure they
were doing me a favor. I think I was at my nadir of my life as a mother at
that point.

I went to our pediatricians wondering if he had some advice. He said, ' I'
look at you and see a tired mother. If I saw a psychotically exhausted
mother I might suggest some sleep training. But I look at your son and see
such a happy boy. I say continue what you're doing. He'll get all the
sleep he needs unless of course you're having wild parties every night." I
assured him we weren't, That was just the support I needed to continue
following his lead and I was very thankful for it.

Now he goes to bed around midnight. I often get into bed before him while
he plays or watches some TV but bc he wants to go to sleep with us and have
some pillow talk, he comes in and we go to sleep together. If he didn't
want to go to sleep w/ us I'm not sure what I would do. It's easy for me to
say he follows his own cycles but really only up until they collide with dh
and mine. After about 12:30, I've just got to go to sleep. We let him know
what we need to which I do think helps in the equation. He sleeps until
about 9: 30. This works for me since I'm not a morning person and god love
him, he still often naps in the afternoon.

What I've thought is for some reason many people extend trust to their
babies but some cultural pressure comes in for some reason around 2. I
don't know why. I guess time to put childish things away or something.

My problem now is my own sleep problems. For years I've gotten up for 2
hrs every night. Ds is an active sleeper so that's part of it bc I've
always been a light sleeper but the other is I just wake up. Bing. Awake.
Not anxious. I get up and read. I've tried so many herbal, homeopathic
remedies. Have occasionally resorted to drugs. I take natural progesterone
and estrogen and thyroid. Nothing seems to touch it. I do believe I would
be a much happier person if I could get more than 6 1/2 hrs consistently.
When I go back to bed, sleep is often then in patches of a few hrs and then
another few hrs. I'm not a deep sleeper so things wake me. I control the
environment as best I ca to induce sleep (dark, quiet). I need about 8 on a
regular basis and haven't had that for about 6 years. I could be exercising
more. That's the one thing I don't do except maybe walk quickly around the
circumference at the park if Ds is involved in something. Any thoughts on
this would would very appreciated? My fear is that I've tried it all.

Alison

TreeGoddess

On Jun 26, 2004, at 6:23 AM, Alison Broadbent wrote:

> Now he goes to bed around midnight. I often get into bed before him
> while
> he plays or watches some TV but bc he wants to go to sleep with us and
> have some pillow talk, he comes in and we go to sleep together. If he
> didn't
> want to go to sleep w/ us I'm not sure what I would do. It's easy for
> me to
> say he follows his own cycles but really only up until they collide
> with dh
> and mine. After about 12:30, I've just got to go to sleep.

Here's what we do. My DS is now 5 and for about the last year he's
really been into watching TV/movies before bed. Our bedrooms are
upstairs with just a dinky square-shaped hallway in between. We have a
TV, VCR, and DVD and a futon in the small bedroom straight across the
hall from the one we sleep in. Little by little he was staying up
later than I possibly could and I'd doze off for a few minutes in my
bed while he watched TV. I'm a very light sleeper also so if he was
having any difficulty I'd hear him and wake right up. He often doesn't
stay up for long after I've gotten in bed and will shut off the TV and
the light before climbing into his bed. I didn't "plan" to do
this....it just sort of evolved after a while. Maybe you could try
something similar?

> My problem now is my own sleep problems. For years I've gotten up
> for 2
> hrs every night. <snip> Bing. Awake. Not anxious. I get up and
> read. I've tried so many herbal, homeopathic remedies. Have
> occasionally resorted to drugs. I take natural progesterone and
> estrogen and thyroid. Nothing seems to touch it. I do believe I
> would be a much happier person if I could get more than 6 1/2 hrs
> consistently.

Alison, when this started happening to me it was during pregnancy and
my midwife suggested that I eat some protein and then go back to bed.
A protein bar, a peanut butter sandwich, a Tofurky (or turkey)
sandwich, etc. I was skeptical at best, but the next time I popped
awake for no "apparent" reason I tried the protein thing and it worked!
You don't have to be pregnant for this to work, of course. ;) Since
you have 4 kids that are close together in age I'm going to guess that
you've been pregnant and/or nursing for the past 6 years and that can
take a lot out of our bodies. Try eating some protein before bed or if
you wake up in the night and see if that makes a difference for you.
It couldn't hurt! :)
-Tracy-

mamaaj2000

Alison,

Yes, exercise! It might make a big difference and even if it doesn't,
it's still a good thing.

It doesn't have to be anything particular. I'm a big fan of just
doing a day's work energetically--jump down to the floor to pick up a
toy, do a sit up and jump to your feet, run across the room to pick
it up. Dance around instead of walking...

I've found a great exercise class for me with good babysitting and I
feel much better than when I wasn't working out. Lots of gyms have
classes and what I do is Jazzercise. If money is an issue, you can
offer to be a babysitter for some of the classes in exchange for free
classes!

--aj

--- In [email protected], Alison Broadbent
<abzb@e...> wrote:
I could be exercising
> more. That's the one thing I don't do except maybe walk quickly
around the
> circumference at the park if Ds is involved in something. Any
thoughts on
> this would would very appreciated? My fear is that I've tried it
all.
>
> Alison

pam sorooshian

On Jun 26, 2004, at 3:23 AM, Alison Broadbent wrote:

> I need about 8 on a
> regular basis and haven't had that for about 6 years. I could be
> exercising
> more. That's the one thing I don't do except maybe walk quickly
> around the
> circumference at the park if Ds is involved in something. Any
> thoughts on
> this would would very appreciated? My fear is that I've tried it all.

30 minutes of exercise during the day works wonders for me - it doesn't
have to be grueling, but it has to be mildly strenuous. I go to Curves
- that does it - I sleep great. This works even if I go to Curves at 7
am - it still drastically changes how I sleep that night - much deeper
and more restful sleep.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/26/2004 7:31:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
abzb@... writes:

What I've thought is for some reason many people extend trust to their
babies but some cultural pressure comes in for some reason around 2. I
don't know why.


<<<<

Because, by then, most are in daycare. That means they have to be up,
dressed, fed and "dropped off" by 7:00----so that mom can be at work by 8:00. There
's also a need to start scheduling sleep and bedtimes for that first day of
school that's just around the corner. If they're not in bed by 8:00, they'll
NEVER get their 10 hours of sleep so that they'll be rested and alert for the
teacher the next day.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

I have basically lived your same story by following my 3 y/o's
natural sleep patterns. Not as long as you mind you. Several things
have helped me to get back to sleep. There is a natural homeopathic
essential oil called Peace & Calming. Young Living is the brand. My
friend orders it for me. I am not sure of the manufacturer. It is
pure essential oils (used topically) that "miraculously" (wish I
understood this stuff) help you to not start ruminating yourself
awake during these wakeful periods. I have found that if I awaken and
start THINKING, I am awake for a couple of hours.

The peace and calming helps-somehow, I just relax back to sleep.
Basically 80-90% of the time it works. If something really needs to
be decided, I have found that the undisturbed time to think is most
valuable. Undisturbed time to think does NOT occur in our house at
this time while ds is awake! So changing my opinion of the
wakefulness has also helped. My friend likes to get up and organize
closets, read etc. when she awakens. I NEED to sleep, though.

We have a HEPA air cleaner in our sleeping room and the white noise
helps too.

Hope this helps.

Pat



--- In [email protected], Alison Broadbent
<abzb@e...> wrote:
> This is my first post here but I guess I'll just jump right in.
The area of
> bedtimes was one of the easier ones for me. We've all got our
places where
> it was hard to let go. My son is 4 1/2. When he was a baby, as
most of us
> probably did, he followed his need for sleep. When he was almost
2, there
> was a strange cultural phenomenon that seemed to occur: a strong
bias for
> starting schedules for children. Everywhere I seemed to look
people were
> saying how important it was for your child to have them asleep by a
certain
> time. They said they didn't get the right kind of sleep unless
they went to
> bed by a certain hour. We co slept and he woke many times and I was
> exhausted. The names Weissbluth and Ferber were dangled in front
of me. I
> knew I wouldn't do that 'crying it out' thing but I was desperate
for sleep.
> I also knew I wanted to follow his lead in what he needed. I would
go to
> the grocery store w/ my son at night and vague acquaintances would
actually
> come up to me and talk to me about how I needed to get him into a
routine.
> I suppose I looked like shit and so it wasn't hard for people to
figure they
> were doing me a favor. I think I was at my nadir of my life as a
mother at
> that point.
>
> I went to our pediatricians wondering if he had some advice. He
said, ' I'
> look at you and see a tired mother. If I saw a psychotically
exhausted
> mother I might suggest some sleep training. But I look at your son
and see
> such a happy boy. I say continue what you're doing. He'll get all
the
> sleep he needs unless of course you're having wild parties every
night." I
> assured him we weren't, That was just the support I needed to
continue
> following his lead and I was very thankful for it.
>
> Now he goes to bed around midnight. I often get into bed before
him while
> he plays or watches some TV but bc he wants to go to sleep with us
and have
> some pillow talk, he comes in and we go to sleep together. If he
didn't
> want to go to sleep w/ us I'm not sure what I would do. It's easy
for me to
> say he follows his own cycles but really only up until they collide
with dh
> and mine. After about 12:30, I've just got to go to sleep. We let
him know
> what we need to which I do think helps in the equation. He sleeps
until
> about 9: 30. This works for me since I'm not a morning person and
god love
> him, he still often naps in the afternoon.
>
> What I've thought is for some reason many people extend trust to
their
> babies but some cultural pressure comes in for some reason around
2. I
> don't know why. I guess time to put childish things away or
something.
>
> My problem now is my own sleep problems. For years I've gotten up
for 2
> hrs every night. Ds is an active sleeper so that's part of it bc
I've
> always been a light sleeper but the other is I just wake up.
Bing. Awake.
> Not anxious. I get up and read. I've tried so many herbal,
homeopathic
> remedies. Have occasionally resorted to drugs. I take natural
progesterone
> and estrogen and thyroid. Nothing seems to touch it. I do believe
I would
> be a much happier person if I could get more than 6 1/2 hrs
consistently.
> When I go back to bed, sleep is often then in patches of a few hrs
and then
> another few hrs. I'm not a deep sleeper so things wake me. I
control the
> environment as best I ca to induce sleep (dark, quiet). I need
about 8 on a
> regular basis and haven't had that for about 6 years. I could be
exercising
> more. That's the one thing I don't do except maybe walk quickly
around the
> circumference at the park if Ds is involved in something. Any
thoughts on
> this would would very appreciated? My fear is that I've tried it
all.
>
> Alison

Diamondlady1025

Alison,

Have you ever tried self hypnosis tapes or brain sync tapes that will place
you in a deeper sleep. I know I too have the same problem you describe and
added to that is the a fact that it can take up to an hour or more to
actually relax enough to fall asleep, so alot of times I feel sleep deprived


So, my answer that helped was listening to self hypnosis and brain sync
tapes that helps to calm my mind and place me into sleep and into a deeper
sleep than that of a light sleep that I was so used to having.

Hope that is helps! :)
Patti and the boys (Chris 13, Matthew 7, Anthony 6)
Life Long Learning Academy
http://www.life-long-learning-4-all.com/index.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Inclusivity/
"For no matter where knowledge and learning come from - no matter
what shape, size, or dimension it assumes - it still is what it is,
knowledge and learning. Therefore knowledge and learning should
always be embraced." ~ unknown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherri-Lee Pressman

Hi Alison,



I have no advice about the sleeping issue. to be honest the thought my dd
being up with my until 12 or 1230 almost causes a cold sweat for me. I need
that time for me and she is so rangy in the evening that she does not leave
me alone at all. So it doesn't work for me and if is perceived as
disrespectful to put my need for some time alone top of my list so I am a
happy mama that doesn't snap and bitch at my kid all day. well I am learning
to be ok with that.



I just wanted to say that my dh sleeps just like you. At about 4 hour
stretches at time max, although he is going through a very good faze right
now through the help of getting his adrenals in line, using chiropractic and
EFT to resolve some old issues and he is sleeping better. He does prefer
BLACK dark, like he likes it if he can't tell if his eyes are open or not
except for what he knows. and quiet. Both of which he can't get with my and
dd as I have serious fear of the dark issues I am working on with EFT also.
It was reassuring to me to hear you also slept in a similar way since I had
never met anyone else like him before and thought it was just him. I hope
you find some way to get more sleep if you need it nothing worse than being
tired in my books,



Sherri-Lee



_____

From: Alison Broadbent [mailto:abzb@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] sleep- his and mine maybe a bit OT



This is my first post here but I guess I'll just jump right in. The area of
bedtimes was one of the easier ones for me. We've all got our places where
it was hard to let go. My son is 4 1/2. When he was a baby, as most of us
probably did, he followed his need for sleep. When he was almost 2, there
was a strange cultural phenomenon that seemed to occur: a strong bias for
starting schedules for children. Everywhere I seemed to look people were
saying how important it was for your child to have them asleep by a certain
time. They said they didn't get the right kind of sleep unless they went to
bed by a certain hour. We co slept and he woke many times and I was
exhausted. The names Weissbluth and Ferber were dangled in front of me. I
knew I wouldn't do that 'crying it out' thing but I was desperate for sleep.
I also knew I wanted to follow his lead in what he needed. I would go to
the grocery store w/ my son at night and vague acquaintances would actually
come up to me and talk to me about how I needed to get him into a routine.
I suppose I looked like shit and so it wasn't hard for people to figure they
were doing me a favor. I think I was at my nadir of my life as a mother at
that point.

I went to our pediatricians wondering if he had some advice. He said, ' I'
look at you and see a tired mother. If I saw a psychotically exhausted
mother I might suggest some sleep training. But I look at your son and see
such a happy boy. I say continue what you're doing. He'll get all the
sleep he needs unless of course you're having wild parties every night." I
assured him we weren't, That was just the support I needed to continue
following his lead and I was very thankful for it.

Now he goes to bed around midnight. I often get into bed before him while
he plays or watches some TV but bc he wants to go to sleep with us and have
some pillow talk, he comes in and we go to sleep together. If he didn't
want to go to sleep w/ us I'm not sure what I would do. It's easy for me to
say he follows his own cycles but really only up until they collide with dh
and mine. After about 12:30, I've just got to go to sleep. We let him know
what we need to which I do think helps in the equation. He sleeps until
about 9: 30. This works for me since I'm not a morning person and god love
him, he still often naps in the afternoon.

What I've thought is for some reason many people extend trust to their
babies but some cultural pressure comes in for some reason around 2. I
don't know why. I guess time to put childish things away or something.

My problem now is my own sleep problems. For years I've gotten up for 2
hrs every night. Ds is an active sleeper so that's part of it bc I've
always been a light sleeper but the other is I just wake up. Bing. Awake.
Not anxious. I get up and read. I've tried so many herbal, homeopathic
remedies. Have occasionally resorted to drugs. I take natural progesterone
and estrogen and thyroid. Nothing seems to touch it. I do believe I would
be a much happier person if I could get more than 6 1/2 hrs consistently.
When I go back to bed, sleep is often then in patches of a few hrs and then
another few hrs. I'm not a deep sleeper so things wake me. I control the
environment as best I ca to induce sleep (dark, quiet). I need about 8 on a
regular basis and haven't had that for about 6 years. I could be exercising
more. That's the one thing I don't do except maybe walk quickly around the
circumference at the park if Ds is involved in something. Any thoughts on
this would would very appreciated? My fear is that I've tried it all.

Alison







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alison Broadbent

I know I'm way behind here and want to apologize for not getting back
sooner. My Mom was in the hospital and it's been a hellish time. Just
waiting to find out.

Those were some great ideas for helping me sleep. Some I do like making
sure I eat protein before bed. But others I hadn't tried so I ordered the
Young Living oil. If the person who mentioned this would email me privately
I'd appreciate it. And the Mind Sync tape I'm going to order. We'll see.
I always have high hopes. So thank you. And yes you have gotten me to go
up and down the stairs if I haven't had a real output of work out type
energy that day. If I missed anyone, I"m sorry. I really appreciated all
the suggestions.

Alison