Re: [unschoolingbasics] peaceful living
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
My best friend and I have completely different parenting styles. She is
pretty nit-picky (though I give her some grace because she has 3 kids and
does this alone... the ex is in another state) and more controling. I even
think she still spanks.... eekkk. We just don't make our parenting styles
an issue in our friendship. She knows I don't think spanking is Biblical...
and I've even said to her... "man, our parenting styles are so different."
But I've never told her she should or shouldn't do something with her kids
and she's never done that to me. That's respect and love at it's finest.
When two people can be great friends because of their common values and
interests and look past the differences.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Ren Allen
Date: 03/12/06 10:36:58
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] safety issues
I have friends that don't unschool, some that unschool but control
several things we don't, I never felt like it was my place to tell
them how to do things unless they asked. I do share bits and pieces
when appropriate of course.
Last week a Mom commented that she doesn't allow violent video games
in their home and I said "we don't control our children's choices".
I told her what WE did, not what SHE should do.
I think one important aspect of unschooling/learning/life is learning
that other people have different boundaries and sensitivities than we
do and how to respect that. Going into someone elses home, or car
means some things will be different than in our own home...unschooler
or not.
If she's modeling to her child, that THEIR values should be imposed on
other people wherever they go, that's not a great skill at getting
along in this life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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pretty nit-picky (though I give her some grace because she has 3 kids and
does this alone... the ex is in another state) and more controling. I even
think she still spanks.... eekkk. We just don't make our parenting styles
an issue in our friendship. She knows I don't think spanking is Biblical...
and I've even said to her... "man, our parenting styles are so different."
But I've never told her she should or shouldn't do something with her kids
and she's never done that to me. That's respect and love at it's finest.
When two people can be great friends because of their common values and
interests and look past the differences.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Ren Allen
Date: 03/12/06 10:36:58
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] safety issues
I have friends that don't unschool, some that unschool but control
several things we don't, I never felt like it was my place to tell
them how to do things unless they asked. I do share bits and pieces
when appropriate of course.
Last week a Mom commented that she doesn't allow violent video games
in their home and I said "we don't control our children's choices".
I told her what WE did, not what SHE should do.
I think one important aspect of unschooling/learning/life is learning
that other people have different boundaries and sensitivities than we
do and how to respect that. Going into someone elses home, or car
means some things will be different than in our own home...unschooler
or not.
If she's modeling to her child, that THEIR values should be imposed on
other people wherever they go, that's not a great skill at getting
along in this life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
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school education
Graduate school education online High school education Chicago school
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Sylvia Toyama
I even think she still spanks.... eekkk. We just don't make our parenting styles an issue in our friendship.
*****
If I had a close friend who spanked -- or even if I suspected she spanked -- I'd have to say something. When my sister mentioned spanking her kids I told her exactly how I feel about it. This past week, her son has been visiting (he's 14). Somehow in conversation he said "I mean, I wouldn't hurt my kid, but if he did [whatever we were discussing] I'd smack him." I told him hitting is not okay. No matter how gently, or how much you love a child. It's not okay to hit adults; it's not okay to hit children. Period.
I couldn't consider it peaceful living if I knew my friend's kids (my friends by extension at the very least) were being hurt by someone who is supposed to love them unconditionally.
Sylvia
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*****
If I had a close friend who spanked -- or even if I suspected she spanked -- I'd have to say something. When my sister mentioned spanking her kids I told her exactly how I feel about it. This past week, her son has been visiting (he's 14). Somehow in conversation he said "I mean, I wouldn't hurt my kid, but if he did [whatever we were discussing] I'd smack him." I told him hitting is not okay. No matter how gently, or how much you love a child. It's not okay to hit adults; it's not okay to hit children. Period.
I couldn't consider it peaceful living if I knew my friend's kids (my friends by extension at the very least) were being hurt by someone who is supposed to love them unconditionally.
Sylvia
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Su Penn
On Mar 12, 2006, at 4:53 PM, Lesa McMahon-Lowe wrote:
since college, and we were even lovers for awhile in our twenties.
When she had a baby but I hadn't had my first yet, we were driving in
the car together one day, reminiscing. I said, "Wow, we've been
friends for so long and been through so much...it's really hard to
imagine anything that could end our friendship now."
She said, "Radically different parenting philosophies."
particular friend and I generally take a hands-off approach to each
other's parenting, but when her son was a toddler she and her partner
were having to swap his car seat from one car to another twice a day
(one driving him to day care, the other picking him up). I was
staying with them for a week and noticed several times that the car
seat wasn't installed properly--the seatbelt holding it hadn't been
sufficiently tightened, so the seat was sitting there loosely. I
finally said to her, "I know we have agreed not to criticize each
other's parenting, but I feel very worried for Noah when I see that
his car seat has not been properly installed." She said, "You're
right. We're being sloppy with it because we're always in such a
hurry, but it's really important and we'll do better."
was right--how we choose to parent seems to me to be reflective of
core values. I don't think I'd break up with a friend over
spanking...but I don't know whether I could just let it be, either.
Su
> She knows I don't think spanking is Biblical...One of my best friends and I have been friends for over 20 years,
> and I've even said to her... "man, our parenting styles are so
> different."
since college, and we were even lovers for awhile in our twenties.
When she had a baby but I hadn't had my first yet, we were driving in
the car together one day, reminiscing. I said, "Wow, we've been
friends for so long and been through so much...it's really hard to
imagine anything that could end our friendship now."
She said, "Radically different parenting philosophies."
> But I've never told her she should or shouldn't do something withI don't know...aren't there times you have to say something? This
> her kids
> and she's never done that to me. That's respect and love at it's
> finest.
particular friend and I generally take a hands-off approach to each
other's parenting, but when her son was a toddler she and her partner
were having to swap his car seat from one car to another twice a day
(one driving him to day care, the other picking him up). I was
staying with them for a week and noticed several times that the car
seat wasn't installed properly--the seatbelt holding it hadn't been
sufficiently tightened, so the seat was sitting there loosely. I
finally said to her, "I know we have agreed not to criticize each
other's parenting, but I feel very worried for Noah when I see that
his car seat has not been properly installed." She said, "You're
right. We're being sloppy with it because we're always in such a
hurry, but it's really important and we'll do better."
> When two people can be great friends because of their common valuesI guess it depends on which things are core values. I think my friend
> and
> interests and look past the differences.
was right--how we choose to parent seems to me to be reflective of
core values. I don't think I'd break up with a friend over
spanking...but I don't know whether I could just let it be, either.
Su
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
You know, we just got done with discussing this thing that happened to
Shannon.... with this other unschooling mom forcing her views onto her. How
is the fact that I don't micromanage how my friend parents any different?
She knows how I feel about certain issues and that's enough for me. If she
wants to know more about my POV then she'll ask. And she'll feel more like
asking knowing that I'm not going to jump down her throat if we don't agree.
She could easily be like that chick that jumped down Shannon's throat as
easily as I could be to her. That's the easy way out. That way of handling
life is rude and uncalled for. I acted like that when I was a teenager...
it's not how I conduct myself now.
Unschooling views are not popular in the Christian community at large... and
storming my way through life saying..."its my way or the highway.... you're
wrong and I'm right and I don't see how you could blindly live your lives
that way"... that's just not the way to change anyone's mind about an issue.
I certainly think those things to myself a lot...but I don't say them out
loud that way. Change is tough for a lot of people and I know that... so I
try to show and express peacefulness in my views, not forcefulness.
I can easily express that we do things differently in our home but I will
never tell someone else that they should things differently in theirs. Like
I said when discussion what happened to Shannon, when does unschooling give
anyone the right to force their views onto someone else? That is what I
meant when I titled this thread Peaceful Living.
Lesa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon.... with this other unschooling mom forcing her views onto her. How
is the fact that I don't micromanage how my friend parents any different?
She knows how I feel about certain issues and that's enough for me. If she
wants to know more about my POV then she'll ask. And she'll feel more like
asking knowing that I'm not going to jump down her throat if we don't agree.
She could easily be like that chick that jumped down Shannon's throat as
easily as I could be to her. That's the easy way out. That way of handling
life is rude and uncalled for. I acted like that when I was a teenager...
it's not how I conduct myself now.
Unschooling views are not popular in the Christian community at large... and
storming my way through life saying..."its my way or the highway.... you're
wrong and I'm right and I don't see how you could blindly live your lives
that way"... that's just not the way to change anyone's mind about an issue.
I certainly think those things to myself a lot...but I don't say them out
loud that way. Change is tough for a lot of people and I know that... so I
try to show and express peacefulness in my views, not forcefulness.
I can easily express that we do things differently in our home but I will
never tell someone else that they should things differently in theirs. Like
I said when discussion what happened to Shannon, when does unschooling give
anyone the right to force their views onto someone else? That is what I
meant when I titled this thread Peaceful Living.
Lesa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Su Penn
On Mar 13, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Lesa McMahon-Lowe wrote:
intervene in how a mother is treating her children? Never? That is
scary to me. Life could be pretty non-peaceful for somebody's kids
while you and I are living under our non-intervention pact!
I'd also say--there are plenty of ways to discuss differences or
intervene that fall way short of giving somebody a lecture on all the
things she's doing wrong! When I spoke to my friend about my
concerns about her son's carseat not being properly installed, I
said, "I feel scared and worried when Noah isn't secured in the car."
That's all I said. I chose to tell her about my feelings. I didn't
tell her she had to do anything differently. And I didn't go on to
say, "And while I'm on the subject, here's a list of the other dozen
things I think you're doing wrong as a mother...." as that woman did
to Shannon.
Perhaps nobody does have the right to "force" their views. But
opening a discussion is not necessarily "forcing."
Su
> I can easily express that we do things differently in our home butNever? There is no circumstance under which you would feel you should
> I will
> never tell someone else that they should things differently in theirs.
intervene in how a mother is treating her children? Never? That is
scary to me. Life could be pretty non-peaceful for somebody's kids
while you and I are living under our non-intervention pact!
I'd also say--there are plenty of ways to discuss differences or
intervene that fall way short of giving somebody a lecture on all the
things she's doing wrong! When I spoke to my friend about my
concerns about her son's carseat not being properly installed, I
said, "I feel scared and worried when Noah isn't secured in the car."
That's all I said. I chose to tell her about my feelings. I didn't
tell her she had to do anything differently. And I didn't go on to
say, "And while I'm on the subject, here's a list of the other dozen
things I think you're doing wrong as a mother...." as that woman did
to Shannon.
Perhaps nobody does have the right to "force" their views. But
opening a discussion is not necessarily "forcing."
Su
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
My God, why does everything have to be taken to such extremes on this
thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Su Penn
Date: 03/13/06 14:29:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] peaceful living
Never? There is no circumstance under which you would feel you should
intervene in how a mother is treating her children? Never? That is
scary to me. Life could be pretty non-peaceful for somebody's kids
while you and I are living under our non-intervention pact!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Su Penn
Date: 03/13/06 14:29:45
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] peaceful living
Never? There is no circumstance under which you would feel you should
intervene in how a mother is treating her children? Never? That is
scary to me. Life could be pretty non-peaceful for somebody's kids
while you and I are living under our non-intervention pact!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
"I can easily express that we do things differently in our home but I
will never tell someone else that they should things differently in
theirs."
I will tell abusers, rapists and mean spirited people they should do
things differently. I have NO problem calling out bad behavior.
Differences in opinion are one thing, harmful behavior is another.
There is a big difference between trying to ramrod your views on
someone and letting them know what you believe in. Apathy isn't
exactly the best way to help someone either.
You can help people see there is a different way to do things in such
a way that they know exactly what you stand for, without saying "you
should do what I do". Saying nothing is equivalent to agreement in my
book. I have a very diverse group of friends, including school
teachers, folks from various religions etc...and I would not tell them
to do anything different. BUT, when it comes to harming a child, I
feel a bit differently about being an advocate. Who advocates for the
vulnerable in our society? Who advocates for the helpless?
I think we can all be gentle advocates.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
will never tell someone else that they should things differently in
theirs."
I will tell abusers, rapists and mean spirited people they should do
things differently. I have NO problem calling out bad behavior.
Differences in opinion are one thing, harmful behavior is another.
There is a big difference between trying to ramrod your views on
someone and letting them know what you believe in. Apathy isn't
exactly the best way to help someone either.
You can help people see there is a different way to do things in such
a way that they know exactly what you stand for, without saying "you
should do what I do". Saying nothing is equivalent to agreement in my
book. I have a very diverse group of friends, including school
teachers, folks from various religions etc...and I would not tell them
to do anything different. BUT, when it comes to harming a child, I
feel a bit differently about being an advocate. Who advocates for the
vulnerable in our society? Who advocates for the helpless?
I think we can all be gentle advocates.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
" My God, why does everything have to be taken to such extremes on this
thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes."
Nobody is taking anything to extremes, they're going off what was
written. If we write something, it's open to discussion.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes."
Nobody is taking anything to extremes, they're going off what was
written. If we write something, it's open to discussion.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Su Penn
On Mar 13, 2006, at 3:56 PM, Lesa McMahon-Lowe wrote:
things differently in our home but I will never tell someone else
that they should things differently in theirs." That's a direct quote
from your earlier message. You can look it up in the archives. I
wasn't "taking things to extremes." I was responding to what you
wrote. OK, I believe you that when you said, "never," you really
meant, "in most cases." But you didn't say that.
Su
>But you said, "Never." You said, "I can easily express that we do
> My God, why does everything have to be taken to such extremes on this
> thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes.
things differently in our home but I will never tell someone else
that they should things differently in theirs." That's a direct quote
from your earlier message. You can look it up in the archives. I
wasn't "taking things to extremes." I was responding to what you
wrote. OK, I believe you that when you said, "never," you really
meant, "in most cases." But you didn't say that.
Su
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
Yes, I know... and this is a reminder to me that there's no voice tone or
expression in written form. Sorry about that.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Su Penn
Date: 03/14/06 00:11:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] peaceful living
expression in written form. Sorry about that.
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
From: Su Penn
Date: 03/14/06 00:11:00
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] peaceful living
On Mar 13, 2006, at 3:56 PM, Lesa McMahon-Lowe wrote:
>
> My God, why does everything have to be taken to such extremes on this
> thread? No, not, NEVER. But in most cases yes.
But you said, "Never." You said, "I can easily express that we do
things differently in our home but I will never tell someone else
that they should things differently in theirs." That's a direct quote
from your earlier message. You can look it up in the archives. I
wasn't "taking things to extremes." I was responding to what you
wrote. OK, I believe you that when you said, "never," you really
meant, "in most cases." But you didn't say that.
Su
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