Re: saftey issues
[email protected]
Hi,
I wanted to ask a few questions about this. First, you said the mom was mad at you for forcing her dd to wear a setbelt, but no where do I hear you used force. I see you insisted on her dd being safe in your car and you being the responsible driver. This mom has a problem in my mind if she is mad at you. So did you use force , like in put the seat belt on the child, or did you insist? Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were her points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
I do have a child who has taken to wanted to be unbuckled. It's a very tough one for me, because she is independently buckling herself, she is 6 now, and for what ever reason, she likes to unbuckle just for the sake, for a game of sorts. I have been impatient, yuck. I have pulled over and waited. I have decided not to go somewhere. All along we talk, talk, talk, about why we buckle, how she could get hurt, what the law is, how I could get a big ticket. That being said, she is 6, and she reacts as a 6 year old, full of spunk and silliness. We have never been in an accident, I have shown her the momentum when stopping. But, all along, I continue to ask for her to buckle, I calmly (most of the time) wait for her to comply, and then we go. I have used force, in the yes I am buckling you right now I am late to pick your sister up, and though that gets the goal of a buckled child, it also breaks down her trust with me. I apologize, life continues, I voice my frustrations to her so she can see where I am at on this. I could just let it go, but that is not what I want to model. Buckling is important to me. As the driver I require all passangers to be buckled. My little one pushes on this requirement, it causes friction and we are continuing to figure out how to work together.She is getting to a point now where the game for her is satisfied, she doesn't push as hard, she has certains places in the car she claims.
At the age of 4 1/2, she was 50 lbs and started getting out of her boosterseat regularly. It became dangerous to drive, for me as I was distracted by her, distracted bt the other kids yelling, Tessa'a out of her seat, and though I talked, I pulled over, I talked, I got frustrated, she continued to climb out of her seat. So against the current laws of our state, 6 years, 60 lbs, I removed the carseat ( which is what she was asking for) and for awhile, she stayed buckled in the regular seat just fine, until it evolved into not being buckled at all she when was 5ish. With my older dd, the law was 3 and 30 lbs, and a few years later, with my son the law was 4 or 40 lbs, for Tessa, 6 or 60 lbs. I knew I was not following the expected law, I was doing the next best thing, my child was buckled in an adult seat. She grew to 60 lbs before she was 5 1/2 and then ah, I was legal again, unless she was playing the I'm unbuckled game.
Argh. Tessa, what a kid ;-)
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I wanted to ask a few questions about this. First, you said the mom was mad at you for forcing her dd to wear a setbelt, but no where do I hear you used force. I see you insisted on her dd being safe in your car and you being the responsible driver. This mom has a problem in my mind if she is mad at you. So did you use force , like in put the seat belt on the child, or did you insist? Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were her points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
I do have a child who has taken to wanted to be unbuckled. It's a very tough one for me, because she is independently buckling herself, she is 6 now, and for what ever reason, she likes to unbuckle just for the sake, for a game of sorts. I have been impatient, yuck. I have pulled over and waited. I have decided not to go somewhere. All along we talk, talk, talk, about why we buckle, how she could get hurt, what the law is, how I could get a big ticket. That being said, she is 6, and she reacts as a 6 year old, full of spunk and silliness. We have never been in an accident, I have shown her the momentum when stopping. But, all along, I continue to ask for her to buckle, I calmly (most of the time) wait for her to comply, and then we go. I have used force, in the yes I am buckling you right now I am late to pick your sister up, and though that gets the goal of a buckled child, it also breaks down her trust with me. I apologize, life continues, I voice my frustrations to her so she can see where I am at on this. I could just let it go, but that is not what I want to model. Buckling is important to me. As the driver I require all passangers to be buckled. My little one pushes on this requirement, it causes friction and we are continuing to figure out how to work together.She is getting to a point now where the game for her is satisfied, she doesn't push as hard, she has certains places in the car she claims.
At the age of 4 1/2, she was 50 lbs and started getting out of her boosterseat regularly. It became dangerous to drive, for me as I was distracted by her, distracted bt the other kids yelling, Tessa'a out of her seat, and though I talked, I pulled over, I talked, I got frustrated, she continued to climb out of her seat. So against the current laws of our state, 6 years, 60 lbs, I removed the carseat ( which is what she was asking for) and for awhile, she stayed buckled in the regular seat just fine, until it evolved into not being buckled at all she when was 5ish. With my older dd, the law was 3 and 30 lbs, and a few years later, with my son the law was 4 or 40 lbs, for Tessa, 6 or 60 lbs. I knew I was not following the expected law, I was doing the next best thing, my child was buckled in an adult seat. She grew to 60 lbs before she was 5 1/2 and then ah, I was legal again, unless she was playing the I'm unbuckled game.
Argh. Tessa, what a kid ;-)
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
S Drag-teine
<grin> Yes, here in Maryland they have to be in a booster seat 8 and 80 lbs.
My son was starting to not like his convertible which we needed to switch
his sister to and he was ready to give it up... We made a big deal of
letting him choose his new big boy seat of course he isn't quite six yet but
he thinks it is great because it has its own lights like for reading and
stuff.
@@@@@
Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were her
points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
@@@@@
As we were leaving from my house (she met me at my house) the kids were into
the music and making faces at my DD (14 months). The other mother was
clearly irritated - not talking but doing a lot of sighing. I said, "What's
wrong?" At this point I didn't even know I had done anything wrong, I spend
a lot of time with other families and it is nothing for me to help get
breakfast served, getting dressed or whatever and discipline (after I
describe someone help me with a better word here).
When I say discipline, I don't mean hitting, screaming or even punishment of
any kind. It isn't about getting in trouble. Like my DD was on my son's bed
and she hurt her head when I walked in he was rubbing her head so hard he
was almost shaking her head. He didn't hurt her but I said stop a little on
the loud side and we sat on the bed and talked about why that wasn't a good
idea and how to do better next time. When I see someone's child doing
something dangerous or just see some where I can help I do without
hesitation. So directing her daughter to get her seat belt on wasn't unusual
for me.
Anyway, she responds, "I can't believe you forced S to wear her seatbelt." I
told her that I was sorry but that is a rule in my car and adult or child.
We always wear our seat belt when the car is moving."
She responded with, "You and rules, You'll never be an unschooler if you use
rules."
I tried to explain that while I may not use the correct verbage my son
doesn't see it as a rule. He sees it as something you do to be safe.
She told me she never forces her DD to do anything and that includes putting
on her seatbelt and that I violated her parental rights as an unschooler by
forcing her to buckle her seatbelt.
I tried to defend myself by discussing that children are required by law to
be in a booster seat until age 8 and 80 lbs and she told me that
vaccinations were a legal requirement in Maryland too but she doesn't do
those either.
I don't know for a fact if vaccinations are a legal requirement or not... My
children do receive their vaccinations but at the latest suggested dates and
my doctor's office even puts those off. I told her that my children receive
vaccinations though I don't know what that has to do with buckling your seat
belt.
I told her I was sorry if she felt that I invaded the way she raises her DD.
I wouldn't want anyone to do to me. My son often takes direction from other
adults but knows that no one has the right to touch him or hurt him. We get
together with many families in their home and he knows that everyone's home
works differently. Some only allow eating in the kitchen, etc.
Instead, of accepting my apology or letting the matter drop she attacked my
unschooling methods. I just bought my son math-u-see's first set because one
of my son's friend's use it (they use it for homeschooling - more eclectic
they have to do something educational daily but the kids get to pick it) My
DS really likes it and asked for it. I asked him if he just wanted the
blocks and he told me no he wanted to do it the same way as J does it. J's
mother had asked me before if they did stuff could my DS be included and I
said as long as he was interested.
So since we had got taxes back I ordered the first set and the other mother
told me that it was too schooly and I never should have gotten it for him
even though he asked me for it. That I had to protect him from schooly stuff
and schooly friends. She ranted about my use of workbooks (Kumon cutting,
tracing, hand writing again stuff he has seen and asked for). That I had
mentioned setting up time on the computer for him to play his games
(everything from Putt-Putt to Arthur 1st Grade) all ones he has picked
himself.
I asked her, I admit my temper was starting to flair a little, that I need
to protect my son from schooly stuff but not to protect himself from injury
by wearing his seatbelt? She just looked at me.
When then (within second) arrived at our destination... she ripped her
daughter out of the car so fast that she started to cry and before I left, I
was looking for her and was told she rode home with someone else. I have
thought about calling her but I don't know what to even say.
Shannon
Melaleuca Customer
Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
mfhickman@...
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:07 PM
To: unschooling basics
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: saftey issues
Hi,
I wanted to ask a few questions about this. First, you said the mom was mad
at you for forcing her dd to wear a setbelt, but no where do I hear you used
force. I see you insisted on her dd being safe in your car and you being the
responsible driver. This mom has a problem in my mind if she is mad at you.
So did you use force , like in put the seat belt on the child, or did you
insist? Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were
her points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
I do have a child who has taken to wanted to be unbuckled. It's a very tough
one for me, because she is independently buckling herself, she is 6 now, and
for what ever reason, she likes to unbuckle just for the sake, for a game of
sorts. I have been impatient, yuck. I have pulled over and waited. I have
decided not to go somewhere. All along we talk, talk, talk, about why we
buckle, how she could get hurt, what the law is, how I could get a big
ticket. That being said, she is 6, and she reacts as a 6 year old, full of
spunk and silliness. We have never been in an accident, I have shown her the
momentum when stopping. But, all along, I continue to ask for her to buckle,
I calmly (most of the time) wait for her to comply, and then we go. I have
used force, in the yes I am buckling you right now I am late to pick your
sister up, and though that gets the goal of a buckled child, it also breaks
down her trust with me. I apologize, life continues, I voice my frustrations
to her so she can see where I am at on this. I could just let it go, but
that is not what I want to model. Buckling is important to me. As the driver
I require all passangers to be buckled. My little one pushes on this
requirement, it causes friction and we are continuing to figure out how to
work together.She is getting to a point now where the game for her is
satisfied, she doesn't push as hard, she has certains places in the car she
claims.
At the age of 4 1/2, she was 50 lbs and started getting out of her
boosterseat regularly. It became dangerous to drive, for me as I was
distracted by her, distracted bt the other kids yelling, Tessa'a out of her
seat, and though I talked, I pulled over, I talked, I got frustrated, she
continued to climb out of her seat. So against the current laws of our
state, 6 years, 60 lbs, I removed the carseat ( which is what she was asking
for) and for awhile, she stayed buckled in the regular seat just fine, until
it evolved into not being buckled at all she when was 5ish. With my older
dd, the law was 3 and 30 lbs, and a few years later, with my son the law was
4 or 40 lbs, for Tessa, 6 or 60 lbs. I knew I was not following the expected
law, I was doing the next best thing, my child was buckled in an adult seat.
She grew to 60 lbs before she was 5 1/2 and then ah, I was legal again,
unless she was playing the I'm unbuckled game.
Argh. Tessa, what a kid ;-)
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
My son was starting to not like his convertible which we needed to switch
his sister to and he was ready to give it up... We made a big deal of
letting him choose his new big boy seat of course he isn't quite six yet but
he thinks it is great because it has its own lights like for reading and
stuff.
@@@@@
Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were her
points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
@@@@@
As we were leaving from my house (she met me at my house) the kids were into
the music and making faces at my DD (14 months). The other mother was
clearly irritated - not talking but doing a lot of sighing. I said, "What's
wrong?" At this point I didn't even know I had done anything wrong, I spend
a lot of time with other families and it is nothing for me to help get
breakfast served, getting dressed or whatever and discipline (after I
describe someone help me with a better word here).
When I say discipline, I don't mean hitting, screaming or even punishment of
any kind. It isn't about getting in trouble. Like my DD was on my son's bed
and she hurt her head when I walked in he was rubbing her head so hard he
was almost shaking her head. He didn't hurt her but I said stop a little on
the loud side and we sat on the bed and talked about why that wasn't a good
idea and how to do better next time. When I see someone's child doing
something dangerous or just see some where I can help I do without
hesitation. So directing her daughter to get her seat belt on wasn't unusual
for me.
Anyway, she responds, "I can't believe you forced S to wear her seatbelt." I
told her that I was sorry but that is a rule in my car and adult or child.
We always wear our seat belt when the car is moving."
She responded with, "You and rules, You'll never be an unschooler if you use
rules."
I tried to explain that while I may not use the correct verbage my son
doesn't see it as a rule. He sees it as something you do to be safe.
She told me she never forces her DD to do anything and that includes putting
on her seatbelt and that I violated her parental rights as an unschooler by
forcing her to buckle her seatbelt.
I tried to defend myself by discussing that children are required by law to
be in a booster seat until age 8 and 80 lbs and she told me that
vaccinations were a legal requirement in Maryland too but she doesn't do
those either.
I don't know for a fact if vaccinations are a legal requirement or not... My
children do receive their vaccinations but at the latest suggested dates and
my doctor's office even puts those off. I told her that my children receive
vaccinations though I don't know what that has to do with buckling your seat
belt.
I told her I was sorry if she felt that I invaded the way she raises her DD.
I wouldn't want anyone to do to me. My son often takes direction from other
adults but knows that no one has the right to touch him or hurt him. We get
together with many families in their home and he knows that everyone's home
works differently. Some only allow eating in the kitchen, etc.
Instead, of accepting my apology or letting the matter drop she attacked my
unschooling methods. I just bought my son math-u-see's first set because one
of my son's friend's use it (they use it for homeschooling - more eclectic
they have to do something educational daily but the kids get to pick it) My
DS really likes it and asked for it. I asked him if he just wanted the
blocks and he told me no he wanted to do it the same way as J does it. J's
mother had asked me before if they did stuff could my DS be included and I
said as long as he was interested.
So since we had got taxes back I ordered the first set and the other mother
told me that it was too schooly and I never should have gotten it for him
even though he asked me for it. That I had to protect him from schooly stuff
and schooly friends. She ranted about my use of workbooks (Kumon cutting,
tracing, hand writing again stuff he has seen and asked for). That I had
mentioned setting up time on the computer for him to play his games
(everything from Putt-Putt to Arthur 1st Grade) all ones he has picked
himself.
I asked her, I admit my temper was starting to flair a little, that I need
to protect my son from schooly stuff but not to protect himself from injury
by wearing his seatbelt? She just looked at me.
When then (within second) arrived at our destination... she ripped her
daughter out of the car so fast that she started to cry and before I left, I
was looking for her and was told she rode home with someone else. I have
thought about calling her but I don't know what to even say.
Shannon
Melaleuca Customer
Join our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
mfhickman@...
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:07 PM
To: unschooling basics
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] Re: saftey issues
Hi,
I wanted to ask a few questions about this. First, you said the mom was mad
at you for forcing her dd to wear a setbelt, but no where do I hear you used
force. I see you insisted on her dd being safe in your car and you being the
responsible driver. This mom has a problem in my mind if she is mad at you.
So did you use force , like in put the seat belt on the child, or did you
insist? Also, I would like to hear more about what the mom said, what were
her points? Did she have anything worth pondering to offer you?
I do have a child who has taken to wanted to be unbuckled. It's a very tough
one for me, because she is independently buckling herself, she is 6 now, and
for what ever reason, she likes to unbuckle just for the sake, for a game of
sorts. I have been impatient, yuck. I have pulled over and waited. I have
decided not to go somewhere. All along we talk, talk, talk, about why we
buckle, how she could get hurt, what the law is, how I could get a big
ticket. That being said, she is 6, and she reacts as a 6 year old, full of
spunk and silliness. We have never been in an accident, I have shown her the
momentum when stopping. But, all along, I continue to ask for her to buckle,
I calmly (most of the time) wait for her to comply, and then we go. I have
used force, in the yes I am buckling you right now I am late to pick your
sister up, and though that gets the goal of a buckled child, it also breaks
down her trust with me. I apologize, life continues, I voice my frustrations
to her so she can see where I am at on this. I could just let it go, but
that is not what I want to model. Buckling is important to me. As the driver
I require all passangers to be buckled. My little one pushes on this
requirement, it causes friction and we are continuing to figure out how to
work together.She is getting to a point now where the game for her is
satisfied, she doesn't push as hard, she has certains places in the car she
claims.
At the age of 4 1/2, she was 50 lbs and started getting out of her
boosterseat regularly. It became dangerous to drive, for me as I was
distracted by her, distracted bt the other kids yelling, Tessa'a out of her
seat, and though I talked, I pulled over, I talked, I got frustrated, she
continued to climb out of her seat. So against the current laws of our
state, 6 years, 60 lbs, I removed the carseat ( which is what she was asking
for) and for awhile, she stayed buckled in the regular seat just fine, until
it evolved into not being buckled at all she when was 5ish. With my older
dd, the law was 3 and 30 lbs, and a few years later, with my son the law was
4 or 40 lbs, for Tessa, 6 or 60 lbs. I knew I was not following the expected
law, I was doing the next best thing, my child was buckled in an adult seat.
She grew to 60 lbs before she was 5 1/2 and then ah, I was legal again,
unless she was playing the I'm unbuckled game.
Argh. Tessa, what a kid ;-)
Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Links
Melissa
I'd say drop that friendship like a rock. i don't know that I'd ever
be comfortable with anyone who had attacked so viciously my family's
choices. And certainly not to drive in a car with them, seat belts
aside!
FWIW...Emily loves Kumon math worksheets. It's like a game for her,
and we just went to Mardel's and picked up a bunch of math games
workbooks that she requested and picked out.
Anyway, sorry about such an icky situation. I felt uncomfortable from
here.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
be comfortable with anyone who had attacked so viciously my family's
choices. And certainly not to drive in a car with them, seat belts
aside!
FWIW...Emily loves Kumon math worksheets. It's like a game for her,
and we just went to Mardel's and picked up a bunch of math games
workbooks that she requested and picked out.
Anyway, sorry about such an icky situation. I felt uncomfortable from
here.
Melissa
Mom to Josh (11), Breanna (8), Emily (7), Rachel (6), Sam (4), Dan
(2), and Avari Rose
On Mar 10, 2006, at 3:22 PM, S Drag-teine wrote:
> <grin> Yes, here in Maryland they have to be in a booster seat 8
> and 80 lbs.
> My son was starting to not like his convertible which we needed to
> switch
> his sister to and he was ready to give it up... We made a big deal of
> letting him choose his new big boy seat of course he isn't quite
> six yet but
> he thinks it is great because it has its own lights like for
> reading and
> stuff.
Paige
> We then (within seconds) arrived at our destination... she ripped herI have to say, do you honestly think this parent is following her
> daughter out of the car so fast that she started to cry
child's path for child-led parenting or unschooling? I think, from
your discription of what happened and how she talked to you, she
probably uses coercion to get her dd to do what she wants, although
she may phrase things differently...do you really want to eat that? as
opposed to just letting her eat what she wants without saying a word,
for example. If she expects you to follow her path (I am assuming you
don't know her very well) what do you suppose goes on with her child.
I really have to say, I think she is in the wrong here...mainly
because of the way she seems to be "forcing" her views on you.
Unschooling is child-led...if your son wants "schoolish" things, by
all means, let him have them and don't let someone make you feel bad
for it. Really, why should it be thought of as school stuff? I
happen to enjoy playing around with math-u-see, handwriting books, and
lots of other things. I'm am certainly not in school, nor even
homeschooling myself. Life is full of fun things, why would you deny
yourself some of them just because they seemed like "school"?
I know, I rambled on and on all around the topic...sorry.
:)Paige
[email protected]
>>She responded with, "You and rules, You'll never be an unschooler if you use rules.">>This sounds like one of those things that just got out of hand in the moment. Do you like this person? Do you want your families to remain friendly? Unschooling is a journey and we're all on different parts of the path. Don't let her stop your travels.
>>She told me she never forces her DD to do anything and that includes putting on her seatbelt and that I violated her parental rights as an unschooler by forcing her to buckle her seatbelt.>>When this kind of thing happens to me, I just tell the other person that I'm a work in progress and someday I hope I'll get more right than not. <g> Only you know if this friendship is worth keeping though.
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "S Drag-teine" <dragteine@...>
[email protected]
>>Unschooling is child-led...if your son wants "schoolish" things, by all means, let him have them and don't let someone make you feel bad for it. Really, why should it be thought of as school stuff? >>The only concern would be a parent giving these activities more value than other less traditional activities the child chooses. The problem would be mostly in the parent attitude towards schooly stuff and how it's used and valued.
We have lots of workbooks, number games, reference books, etc. around the house. They're used like all of our resources and toys and given the same value. Heck, my daughter even tried school for a week last year at her request. Even so, I wouldn't recommend that option if you don't need to use such a schooly (it's school afterall) resource. It's HARD to keep your center with so much schooly stuff flying around you.
Does that make sense?
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Paige" <paigehughes1972@...>
Su Penn
On Mar 10, 2006, at 5:09 PM, Melissa wrote:
the workbooks are the bee's knees! My almost-5 ds just spent a good
four hours this afternoon with "My First Book of Cutting," having a
blast and really consolidating his scissor skills to boot.
Su
> FWIW...Emily loves Kumon math worksheetsI hate the whole idea of those Kumon learning centers they have--but
the workbooks are the bee's knees! My almost-5 ds just spent a good
four hours this afternoon with "My First Book of Cutting," having a
blast and really consolidating his scissor skills to boot.
Su
Lesa McMahon-Lowe
Dude, this has nothing to do with parental rights! It's the LAW!
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
Lesa
-------Original Message-------
>>She told me she never forces her DD to do anything and that includes putting on her seatbelt and that I violated her parental rights as an unschooler by forcing her to buckle her seatbelt.>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>> Dude, this has nothing to do with parental rights! It's the LAW!>>Yeah but it used to be the law that women couldn't vote, blacks had to use separate drinking fountains, people could own slaves, and families could NOT homeschool. I'm not advocating anarchy, but we should act based on mindful considerations, not just because it's "the law."
Seatbelts make sense. We use them. We don't want to fly around unrestrained in a car that stops suddenly. I get no arguments from my family.
--
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the
green earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly
alive."
~Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Lesa McMahon-Lowe" <lesajm@...>