un-parenting criticism
sandralzires
Hello all,
I am new to home education and due to my son's temperament I felt
that unschooling would be ideal for him. I also have a 5 & 2 yr old
another reason I thought unschooling would be easiest for us.
I have a close friend who's child in currently in a Waldorf school
and is thinking of unschooling next year. She was that is, until I
started discussing some of the topics related to TV consumption and
nutrition. That's where I lost her.
I'm wondering if she's right regarding TV & computer, as they
pertain to eye health. Not to mention the research on taking in too
much violence.
I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the Waldorf education
mindset. They are very child centered, however they try to control
everything their children see, especially in the early years. My
friend spoke to aanother Waldorf parent who said that unschooling
sounded more like unparenting to her. That kind of annoyed me, but
I understand how it might appear that way.
My friend is fond of reminding me that children aren't hatched. They
need our guidance. She reminds me that children have no way of
knowing what is bad or good for them during the early years. How
would my 7 yr old know that excessive computer usage could effect
his eyesight in the future?
Nutrition is also a big concern. I do not want my children to eat
what they want when they want. How can we refute the connection
between healthy/poor eating habits and illness? My children know
what's healthy; they just don't care. I care. If they get sick,
I'm responsible.
Also, there's the issue of not making them help clean up. I just
don't know about that. I get the whole idea that it is better that
they want to help, however I do not want to be the ONLY one cleaning
their stuff. My husband's mother did everything for him and he
struggles with responsibility as an adult.
I feel that unschooling is really a very beautiful non-
confrontational way of raising children. I'm just not sure if my
friend may be right especially when health issues are in question.
Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sandra
I am new to home education and due to my son's temperament I felt
that unschooling would be ideal for him. I also have a 5 & 2 yr old
another reason I thought unschooling would be easiest for us.
I have a close friend who's child in currently in a Waldorf school
and is thinking of unschooling next year. She was that is, until I
started discussing some of the topics related to TV consumption and
nutrition. That's where I lost her.
I'm wondering if she's right regarding TV & computer, as they
pertain to eye health. Not to mention the research on taking in too
much violence.
I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the Waldorf education
mindset. They are very child centered, however they try to control
everything their children see, especially in the early years. My
friend spoke to aanother Waldorf parent who said that unschooling
sounded more like unparenting to her. That kind of annoyed me, but
I understand how it might appear that way.
My friend is fond of reminding me that children aren't hatched. They
need our guidance. She reminds me that children have no way of
knowing what is bad or good for them during the early years. How
would my 7 yr old know that excessive computer usage could effect
his eyesight in the future?
Nutrition is also a big concern. I do not want my children to eat
what they want when they want. How can we refute the connection
between healthy/poor eating habits and illness? My children know
what's healthy; they just don't care. I care. If they get sick,
I'm responsible.
Also, there's the issue of not making them help clean up. I just
don't know about that. I get the whole idea that it is better that
they want to help, however I do not want to be the ONLY one cleaning
their stuff. My husband's mother did everything for him and he
struggles with responsibility as an adult.
I feel that unschooling is really a very beautiful non-
confrontational way of raising children. I'm just not sure if my
friend may be right especially when health issues are in question.
Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sandra
Annas Mum
I can only offer you my opinion and that is that there
are no rules. No one gets to define you unless you
allow them to. Same goes for your friend. She gets to
decide what's best for her child. If limiting his TV
and PC use is what she feels is best, then so be it.
If she does, and someone says "Oh! You are not an
unschooler because you do that" what does that mean?
It means precious little. It means that that is THEIR
opinion, and she can take it or leave it. I hope she
will not miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime for
her child simply because of a definition or someone
else's opinion!
--- sandralzires <sandralzires@...> wrote:
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are no rules. No one gets to define you unless you
allow them to. Same goes for your friend. She gets to
decide what's best for her child. If limiting his TV
and PC use is what she feels is best, then so be it.
If she does, and someone says "Oh! You are not an
unschooler because you do that" what does that mean?
It means precious little. It means that that is THEIR
opinion, and she can take it or leave it. I hope she
will not miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime for
her child simply because of a definition or someone
else's opinion!
--- sandralzires <sandralzires@...> wrote:
> Hello all,__________________________________________________
> I am new to home education and due to my son's
> temperament I felt
> that unschooling would be ideal for him. I also have
> a 5 & 2 yr old
> another reason I thought unschooling would be
> easiest for us.
>
> I have a close friend who's child in currently in a
> Waldorf school
> and is thinking of unschooling next year. She was
> that is, until I
> started discussing some of the topics related to TV
> consumption and
> nutrition. That's where I lost her.
>
> I'm wondering if she's right regarding TV &
> computer, as they
> pertain to eye health. Not to mention the research
> on taking in too
> much violence.
>
> I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the
> Waldorf education
> mindset. They are very child centered, however they
> try to control
> everything their children see, especially in the
> early years. My
> friend spoke to aanother Waldorf parent who said
> that unschooling
> sounded more like unparenting to her. That kind of
> annoyed me, but
> I understand how it might appear that way.
>
> My friend is fond of reminding me that children
> aren't hatched. They
> need our guidance. She reminds me that children
> have no way of
> knowing what is bad or good for them during the
> early years. How
> would my 7 yr old know that excessive computer usage
> could effect
> his eyesight in the future?
>
> Nutrition is also a big concern. I do not want my
> children to eat
> what they want when they want. How can we refute
> the connection
> between healthy/poor eating habits and illness? My
> children know
> what's healthy; they just don't care. I care. If
> they get sick,
> I'm responsible.
>
> Also, there's the issue of not making them help
> clean up. I just
> don't know about that. I get the whole idea that it
> is better that
> they want to help, however I do not want to be the
> ONLY one cleaning
> their stuff. My husband's mother did everything for
> him and he
> struggles with responsibility as an adult.
>
> I feel that unschooling is really a very beautiful
> non-
> confrontational way of raising children. I'm just
> not sure if my
> friend may be right especially when health issues
> are in question.
> Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
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Ren Allen
"I hope she
will not miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime for
her child simply because of a definition or someone
else's opinion!"
But at this list, we are here to explode those myths and discuss how
those views do not hold up to our real life experience of life without
arbitrary limits.
There's so much I have to say on this topic, but I need to get some
sleep now, so it'll have to save.
Please read at Sandradodd.com as much as possible...lotsa good stuff
on why kids ARE very able to have unlimited access to things and be
just fine! Unschooling is trusting that your child can learn what
they need to, when they need to. So your friend can limit tv or food
or whatever she chooses and still be an unschooler...but is that style
of parenting HELPFUL to unschooling or harmful?
That's what we're here to discuss.
I don't see how you can extend trust to your children in ONE area only
and then say they need control in every other area. You either trust
them or you don't. That doesn't mean we aren't there every step of the
way, guiding and helping them navigate. Arbitrary limits are not about
guidance though, it's control.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
will not miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime for
her child simply because of a definition or someone
else's opinion!"
But at this list, we are here to explode those myths and discuss how
those views do not hold up to our real life experience of life without
arbitrary limits.
There's so much I have to say on this topic, but I need to get some
sleep now, so it'll have to save.
Please read at Sandradodd.com as much as possible...lotsa good stuff
on why kids ARE very able to have unlimited access to things and be
just fine! Unschooling is trusting that your child can learn what
they need to, when they need to. So your friend can limit tv or food
or whatever she chooses and still be an unschooler...but is that style
of parenting HELPFUL to unschooling or harmful?
That's what we're here to discuss.
I don't see how you can extend trust to your children in ONE area only
and then say they need control in every other area. You either trust
them or you don't. That doesn't mean we aren't there every step of the
way, guiding and helping them navigate. Arbitrary limits are not about
guidance though, it's control.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Annas Mum
I hope she
thing. But the lady in question is NOT a member of
this yahoo group. I believe that arguing this one
point with her, and insisting that she fit into OUR
definition of unschooling would be unkind if the
person making the query is truly her friend.
Supporting and encouraging those with another opinion
than our own, not trying to force them to live within
our definition seems to me to be a loving friendly
gesture. We don't have to be of the same religion for
me to support your choice to worship as you see fit.
And because I am a member of this group does not mean
that I feel the need to force you to agree with my
home educating/uneducating beliefs. I stand firm.
Please don't allow this one topic to be of such
importance with your friend, that you alienate her
from anything other than a public school education.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
> will not miss out on the opportunity of a lifetimeDiscussion on this topic within this group is a good
> for
> her child simply because of a definition or someone
> else's opinion!"
>
> But at this list, we are here to explode those myths
> and discuss how
> those views do not hold up to our real life
> experience of life without
> arbitrary limits.
>
thing. But the lady in question is NOT a member of
this yahoo group. I believe that arguing this one
point with her, and insisting that she fit into OUR
definition of unschooling would be unkind if the
person making the query is truly her friend.
Supporting and encouraging those with another opinion
than our own, not trying to force them to live within
our definition seems to me to be a loving friendly
gesture. We don't have to be of the same religion for
me to support your choice to worship as you see fit.
And because I am a member of this group does not mean
that I feel the need to force you to agree with my
home educating/uneducating beliefs. I stand firm.
Please don't allow this one topic to be of such
importance with your friend, that you alienate her
from anything other than a public school education.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Ren Allen
"But the lady in question is NOT a member of
this yahoo group."
That wasn't the point. The lady in question gave information that was
not only brought to this group (now open for discussion), but also
influenced how a member felt about certain topics.
If you post it, it's open to discussion...and this group exists to
share UNschooling information and how it affects ALL of life,
including the parenting issues.
Nobody is asking anyone to go persuade anyone off this list, though it
happens frequently!:)
I'm not sure why that is even an issue. The issue and questions that
pertain directly to this list are; can children given free access to
television and computers still be healthy, happy, creative kids?
Can kids that have access to all sorts of food without limits be
healthy and balanced children?
This list exists to let you know that YES, it is not only possible,
it's desirable!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
this yahoo group."
That wasn't the point. The lady in question gave information that was
not only brought to this group (now open for discussion), but also
influenced how a member felt about certain topics.
If you post it, it's open to discussion...and this group exists to
share UNschooling information and how it affects ALL of life,
including the parenting issues.
Nobody is asking anyone to go persuade anyone off this list, though it
happens frequently!:)
I'm not sure why that is even an issue. The issue and questions that
pertain directly to this list are; can children given free access to
television and computers still be healthy, happy, creative kids?
Can kids that have access to all sorts of food without limits be
healthy and balanced children?
This list exists to let you know that YES, it is not only possible,
it's desirable!
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
S Drag-teine
Welcome Sandra!
I have a 5 1/2 and a 14 month old. unschooling is great. We have unschooled
their whole lives. Many people think my son is older then he is because he
gets concepts that adults think are over young children's head. They aren't
forced concepts just stuff he learns from daily life and I don't dumb them
down or tell him he has to wait until he is older.
I forced myself to read every response before I wrote mine. Yes, my son
plays quite a bit of PC games, some video games though he prefers his
Leapster (something he asked for) and the TV will be on from the time the
kids get up to the time my DH goes to bed. Some shows like Big, Big World
are actually watched and others are background. We play a movie while we
make lunch or work on a project.
He can watch almost everything he wants to - mostly he likes what he calls
beautiful movies, like some of the Barbie movies he borrows from his "girl
friend" or Everafter. He also likes hero movies Hellboy, Batman, Spiderman,
Incredibles and even Cat Woman. I had the same concerns about violence which
have recently be laid to rest because my son said, "Heroes only hurt bullys.
I don't like bullies!"
He does have the concept that if someone hurts you that you should hurt them
back and we talk about that. I don't think that is a TV learned concept
though. It is a natural reaction to hurt someone that has hurt you.
Shannon
<http://www.melaleuca.com/> Melaleuca Customer
<http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2&r_by=triskele@...> Join
our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sandralzires
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] un-parenting criticism
Hello all,
I am new to home education and due to my son's temperament I felt
that unschooling would be ideal for him. I also have a 5 & 2 yr old
another reason I thought unschooling would be easiest for us.
I have a close friend who's child in currently in a Waldorf school
and is thinking of unschooling next year. She was that is, until I
started discussing some of the topics related to TV consumption and
nutrition. That's where I lost her.
I'm wondering if she's right regarding TV & computer, as they
pertain to eye health. Not to mention the research on taking in too
much violence.
I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the Waldorf education
mindset. They are very child centered, however they try to control
everything their children see, especially in the early years. My
friend spoke to aanother Waldorf parent who said that unschooling
sounded more like unparenting to her. That kind of annoyed me, but
I understand how it might appear that way.
My friend is fond of reminding me that children aren't hatched. They
need our guidance. She reminds me that children have no way of
knowing what is bad or good for them during the early years. How
would my 7 yr old know that excessive computer usage could effect
his eyesight in the future?
Nutrition is also a big concern. I do not want my children to eat
what they want when they want. How can we refute the connection
between healthy/poor eating habits and illness? My children know
what's healthy; they just don't care. I care. If they get sick,
I'm responsible.
Also, there's the issue of not making them help clean up. I just
don't know about that. I get the whole idea that it is better that
they want to help, however I do not want to be the ONLY one cleaning
their stuff. My husband's mother did everything for him and he
struggles with responsibility as an adult.
I feel that unschooling is really a very beautiful non-
confrontational way of raising children. I'm just not sure if my
friend may be right especially when health issues are in question.
Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
[email protected]
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have a 5 1/2 and a 14 month old. unschooling is great. We have unschooled
their whole lives. Many people think my son is older then he is because he
gets concepts that adults think are over young children's head. They aren't
forced concepts just stuff he learns from daily life and I don't dumb them
down or tell him he has to wait until he is older.
I forced myself to read every response before I wrote mine. Yes, my son
plays quite a bit of PC games, some video games though he prefers his
Leapster (something he asked for) and the TV will be on from the time the
kids get up to the time my DH goes to bed. Some shows like Big, Big World
are actually watched and others are background. We play a movie while we
make lunch or work on a project.
He can watch almost everything he wants to - mostly he likes what he calls
beautiful movies, like some of the Barbie movies he borrows from his "girl
friend" or Everafter. He also likes hero movies Hellboy, Batman, Spiderman,
Incredibles and even Cat Woman. I had the same concerns about violence which
have recently be laid to rest because my son said, "Heroes only hurt bullys.
I don't like bullies!"
He does have the concept that if someone hurts you that you should hurt them
back and we talk about that. I don't think that is a TV learned concept
though. It is a natural reaction to hurt someone that has hurt you.
Shannon
<http://www.melaleuca.com/> Melaleuca Customer
<http://www.paperbackswap.com/index.php?n=2&r_by=triskele@...> Join
our club and swap paperback books for FREE - PaperBackSwap.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of sandralzires
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] un-parenting criticism
Hello all,
I am new to home education and due to my son's temperament I felt
that unschooling would be ideal for him. I also have a 5 & 2 yr old
another reason I thought unschooling would be easiest for us.
I have a close friend who's child in currently in a Waldorf school
and is thinking of unschooling next year. She was that is, until I
started discussing some of the topics related to TV consumption and
nutrition. That's where I lost her.
I'm wondering if she's right regarding TV & computer, as they
pertain to eye health. Not to mention the research on taking in too
much violence.
I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with the Waldorf education
mindset. They are very child centered, however they try to control
everything their children see, especially in the early years. My
friend spoke to aanother Waldorf parent who said that unschooling
sounded more like unparenting to her. That kind of annoyed me, but
I understand how it might appear that way.
My friend is fond of reminding me that children aren't hatched. They
need our guidance. She reminds me that children have no way of
knowing what is bad or good for them during the early years. How
would my 7 yr old know that excessive computer usage could effect
his eyesight in the future?
Nutrition is also a big concern. I do not want my children to eat
what they want when they want. How can we refute the connection
between healthy/poor eating habits and illness? My children know
what's healthy; they just don't care. I care. If they get sick,
I'm responsible.
Also, there's the issue of not making them help clean up. I just
don't know about that. I get the whole idea that it is better that
they want to help, however I do not want to be the ONLY one cleaning
their stuff. My husband's mother did everything for him and he
struggles with responsibility as an adult.
I feel that unschooling is really a very beautiful non-
confrontational way of raising children. I'm just not sure if my
friend may be right especially when health issues are in question.
Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingbasics/
[email protected]
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kiersten Pasciak
--- In [email protected], "S Drag-teine"
<dragteine@...> wrote:
I had the same concerns about violence which
A similar comment from my son ended my objections.
I was worried about violent video games and told him I didn't like
seeing people get hurt.
His response..."It's just a game on TV, mom. It isn't REAL!"
He's 4.
Sometimes it is a bit difficult (for me) because people perceive that
that is why he swings around and is in play-fighting mode much of the
time, but he was doing that long before he saw it on tv.
Kiersten
<dragteine@...> wrote:
I had the same concerns about violence which
> have recently be laid to rest because my son said, "Heroes only hurtbullys.
> I don't like bullies!"-----------
> Shannon
A similar comment from my son ended my objections.
I was worried about violent video games and told him I didn't like
seeing people get hurt.
His response..."It's just a game on TV, mom. It isn't REAL!"
He's 4.
Sometimes it is a bit difficult (for me) because people perceive that
that is why he swings around and is in play-fighting mode much of the
time, but he was doing that long before he saw it on tv.
Kiersten
Eileen
We need to limit t.v. video games and the computer on Micaela our 10
year old girl. She starts to frown, squint, blink repeatedly and gets a
bad headache if she plays more then 20 minutes at a time. If she had a
choice she would be on her gameboy or the computer 24/7. At first it
was a struggle because we tried to force her to stop playing after her
set time. It was horrible she would cry and scream at us. Then we
decided to let her play it as long as she wanted, and after about a
week of headaches she finally put 2 and 2 together (she plays to long
she hurts)now only once in a while do we get grief when the timer goes
off. She has moles on the back of both of her eyes, the eye specialist
we go to said that could be part of the problem. As long as the moles
don't change she's okay. She has to see him every 3 to 6 months.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I know if we had continued to force
her to stop (like my sister thought I should do) I know we would still
be fighting about it. But letting Micaela make her own choices she
listens to what her body is telling her and what Mom says!
Eileen in Utah
Mom to Irish twins
Cody(ds 11) Micaela (dd 10)
year old girl. She starts to frown, squint, blink repeatedly and gets a
bad headache if she plays more then 20 minutes at a time. If she had a
choice she would be on her gameboy or the computer 24/7. At first it
was a struggle because we tried to force her to stop playing after her
set time. It was horrible she would cry and scream at us. Then we
decided to let her play it as long as she wanted, and after about a
week of headaches she finally put 2 and 2 together (she plays to long
she hurts)now only once in a while do we get grief when the timer goes
off. She has moles on the back of both of her eyes, the eye specialist
we go to said that could be part of the problem. As long as the moles
don't change she's okay. She has to see him every 3 to 6 months.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I know if we had continued to force
her to stop (like my sister thought I should do) I know we would still
be fighting about it. But letting Micaela make her own choices she
listens to what her body is telling her and what Mom says!
Eileen in Utah
Mom to Irish twins
Cody(ds 11) Micaela (dd 10)
[email protected]
Oops! The last line of my post should have said that Micaela has learned to
listen to her body and not just to stop because Mom said too!
Eileen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
listen to her body and not just to stop because Mom said too!
Eileen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Willoughby
Our neighboors across the street are Pentecostal. The only tv in their house is in their 4 year old sons bedroom and its not actually tv ....he just has a library of videos he has unlimited access to. The only time I notice him really watching tv is if mom suggests and go with him or his 2 little cousins are over ........I think they dont do tv at all at home ...so they always want to watch when they are over.
Anyway.....he is the sweetest little boy.......would never actually hurt a fly but he is constantly running around "shooting things" with his toy guns, toy bow and arrow etc.
Or his latest favorite is putting on his donatello costume and karate chopping bad guys.
She has been considering homeschooling him and I pray that she does. He is such a delightful little boy and sending him off to kiddoe prison would just squash him .
Nicole
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anyway.....he is the sweetest little boy.......would never actually hurt a fly but he is constantly running around "shooting things" with his toy guns, toy bow and arrow etc.
Or his latest favorite is putting on his donatello costume and karate chopping bad guys.
She has been considering homeschooling him and I pray that she does. He is such a delightful little boy and sending him off to kiddoe prison would just squash him .
Nicole
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]