cncnawilloughby

Im sorry this is nothing more than a vent but this is about the only
place i can vent about it as it seems everyone around here in real
life disagrees with my views.

I went to my neighbors house to let Courtney and alyssa visit for a
little while ( loooong story but my kids are not allowed over there
unless supervised by me because of inappropriate behavior between
Courtney and her sons)

So I get there and Ill call her M......M looks like she is ready to
pull her hair out.So I asked what was wrong and she said B came home
with a pink slip and showed me the pink slip.
So i read the pink slip .His offenses were not following
directions , not paying attention, and eating his cookie before he
ate his lunch. ( and thats a problem because........?)

Ok that in itself bothered me a lot . But what really bothered me is
she spanked him for it and wrote on his pink slip and underlines . I
do not want another one of these sent him Paddle Him!
She is not the only parent around here.
Out of all the states that still allow the barbaric practice of
hitting children with a board , Ms has the highest statistic with 1
in every 10 children getting hit every year. Most of the other dont
reach 5%.
sorry nothing personal if anyone else lives here but I want to get
the heck out of Ms!

nicole

Ren Allen

"sorry nothing personal if anyone else lives here but I want to get
the heck out of Ms!"

Come on up to TN...we're making the Johnson City area an unschooling
haven! Well, it really is in a sense, because there were already
several relaxed/eclectic and unschooling families here before us...but
we're working on making it unschooling RICH. There's always room for
one more.:)

It makes me ill to think of how many children are being hit every day.

Ren
learninginfreedom.com

Nicole Willoughby

we're making the Johnson City area an unschooling
haven! >>>>>>>>

Ok forgive my horrible geography skills ( coloring all those dang maps in school taught me nothing about how to actually read one) but where is Johnson city in relation to Memphis?

Nicole


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Nicole Willoughby

Ok forgive my horrible geography skills ( coloring all those dang maps in school taught me nothing about how to actually read one) but where is Johnson city in relation to Memphis?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hey! I found it. You guys are near North Carolina right?

Any casinos up there? Or open jobs for micros system engineers?

nicole


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Jessica Radtke

Oh my gosh, Nicole...that just makes me sick thinking
about it. I don't even know what to say when I hear
things like that. Whenever I hear a story like this in
person I am so shocked that I am literally rendered
speechless. And then later on after the shock wears of
I wonder why I didn't say this or that or the other. I
wish I could overcome my shock in situations like that
and SAY something.







Jessica

Come check out my art blog!
http://dancingdovecreations.blogspot.com/

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Momma

We once had a neighbor next door who spanked his children a lot. You know
how I knew? I could HEAR it!

I was so glad when they moved but my heart still cries for those children.

-Dawn in Texas



_____

From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jessica Radtke
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] I just want to cry



Oh my gosh, Nicole...that just makes me sick thinking
about it. I don't even know what to say when I hear
things like that. Whenever I hear a story like this in
person I am so shocked that I am literally rendered
speechless. And then later on after the shock wears of
I wonder why I didn't say this or that or the other. I
wish I could overcome my shock in situations like that
and SAY something.







Jessica

Come check out my art blog!
http://dancingdovecreations.blogspot.com/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

My 5 year old is already not able to enjoy artwork, because she is hard on
herself about not being "good". If she simply didn't want to do art, that
would be fine, but I can tell that she does. When my 3 year old and I
start doing something crafty, like painting or gluing or whatever, it's
clear she wants to join in, and sometimes she does, but it almost always
ends up being a downer for her. She starts looking at mine and saying "I
wish I could do it like that." Mind you, art is not my gift. I see myself
in my dd. In school I always hated art, because I wasn't "good at it". It
felt terrible to be graded on it. Personally I think it's a crime to grade
art, especially for young children. It's only been in my 30's that I've
freed myself up enough to enjoy playing with artistic things. Before that
I totally avoided all of it.

Tips for how I can get her to enjoy the freedom and the joy without the
all the negative stuff????

TIA,
Gayle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sheila Plant

I think children often want results that match what they envision in their heads. Frustration sometimes develops when what we get doesn't match expectations. I really enjoyed the book by Mona Brookes called Drawing with Children. It is fairly structured in approach but gives skill and confidence.
plantclan
alder7run@... wrote:
My 5 year old is already not able to enjoy artwork, because she is hard on
herself about not being "good". If she simply didn't want to do art, that
would be fine, but I can tell that she does. When my 3 year old and I
start doing something crafty, like painting or gluing or whatever, it's
clear she wants to join in, and sometimes she does, but it almost always
ends up being a downer for her. She starts looking at mine and saying "I
wish I could do it like that." Mind you, art is not my gift. I see myself
in my dd. In school I always hated art, because I wasn't "good at it". It
felt terrible to be graded on it. Personally I think it's a crime to grade
art, especially for young children. It's only been in my 30's that I've
freed myself up enough to enjoy playing with artistic things. Before that
I totally avoided all of it.

Tips for how I can get her to enjoy the freedom and the joy without the
all the negative stuff????

TIA,
Gayle

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paige

We really make it a point to let our kids know that art is an
individual expression of what's inside them. If, for instance, you're
really happy, all pink might come out and your page is covered in
pink...wouldn't that be a wonderful painting to look at later and
think of how happy you were?
We keep lots of art materials around, crayons, markers, pens, pencils,
chalk, colered and white papers, scissors, stamps, buttons, glue,
beads, wire, glitter, play dough, ect...
Paige

> Tips for how I can get her to enjoy the freedom and the joy without
> all the negative stuff????

Annas Mum

I had the same issue with my daughter.
She's 8 now.

Here's some things that worked for me.
Sit down to color but tell her that today the rules
are that nothing can be in the lines! Color crazy!
Make the sky green and the grass blue and don't stay
in the lines. Gasp and make silly faces if she does
stay in the lines!

Make crazy collages. Anything goes. The more textures
and layers and better. Nothing forming anything. Just
very freeform. Play some sillywilly music while you're
doing it. She'll love it!

Get out your watercolor based markers and let her
color the tops of her feet and her toenails.

Basic idea here is make art fun. Make it so there are
no rules right now. See if this helps. After trying
this, I would offer you this book...Drawing with
Children by Mona Brookes. This book had much to teach
me. I hope I have offered something of help to you. If
you need more help, please be sure to ask!
.......Kelly



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[email protected]

My VERY artistic 5 year old (draws 10 hours a day, I think!) went through
the same thing a few months ago. I validated her feelings over and over and we
talked about how frustrating it can be when things don't turn out just the
way you want. How even great artists don't always like their work.

Then we talked about how every piece of art is a part of her and they are
all special, even the ones she doesn't like.

We looked at kids artwork on the internet.

Now, every once in awhile she will bring me some art and say "I don't like
how this part turned out, but I thing this part is pretty great!"

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

I really liked your reply. I can see this in myself with any new form of
artistic impression that I try... whether it be with ballet, art, poetry,
crochet, or sewing. We are our own worst critics, aren't we.

If our feelings are validated and we can get feedback then our drive changes
from wanting to give up to wanting to explore how we can better our craft.

Thanks so much for your reply/reminder of this, Leslie.

Lesa

-------Original Message-------

From: Leslie530@...
Date: 02/22/06 19:57:31
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [unschoolingbasics] help for my 5 year old

My VERY artistic 5 year old (draws 10 hours a day, I think!) went through
the same thing a few months ago. I validated her feelings over and over
and we
talked about how frustrating it can be when things don't turn out just the
way you want. How even great artists don't always like their work.

Then we talked about how every piece of art is a part of her and they are
all special, even the ones she doesn't like.

We looked at kids artwork on the internet.

Now, every once in awhile she will bring me some art and say "I don't like
how this part turned out, but I thing this part is pretty great!"

Leslie in SC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Andrea

"My 5 year old is already not able to enjoy artwork, because she is hard on

herself about not being "good". She starts looking at mine and saying "I

wish I could do it like that."



My son went through this also, and he loves doing art. When my son would
say things like this, I would not ignore it, but I also wouldn't go into
"What are you talking about, you are a great artist!", because I knew that
he would know I was "boosting" him up (he would see it as artificial).
Instead, I would mirror how he was feeling and not try to fix his feelings
about it. "I hear that you are feeling badly because you think your art is
not good, is that right?" "I hear that you would like to become a better
artist, is that right?" After a lot of this, it would naturally lead to
solutions that we would find together, like finding an artist to work with,
talking about art that he likes and pulling ideas from it, putting on music
and seeing how different music affects our art time etc. and we would also
talk about art itself, why we want to do it etc.this helped him to see that
we don't do art so that we necessarily become great artists (though that
might happen!) but that we do it to express our feelings stories and to have
fun!



Andrea



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/23/2006 10:54:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lesajm@... writes:

I can see this in myself with any new form of
artistic impression that I try... whether it be with ballet, art, poetry,
crochet, or sewing. We are our own worst critics, aren't we.



************

So true! I have a very harsh critic that keeps me from trying much of
anything.

I believe that our children's concerns about their art is probably
developmental, that at some point they are seeing that there is a discrepancy between
what is in their minds and what ends up on the paper. But when I see these
traits in my daughter, I wonder about perfectionism. I used to think my
perfectionism was created from my family and school, but I think that perhaps it
is more of "me" than I previously thought. Yes, those influences had a huge
impact, but perhaps they just intensified what was already there. My daughter
has had very little of this type of imposed judgment, but she can be such a
perfectionist! It breaks my heart, sometimes.

Interesting topic to discuss!

Leslie in SC




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

Let me assure you, I am a recovering perfectionist. This all or nothing
attitude I've had all my life has only kept me idle. In one way it can push
me to do better but it also has a way of crushing my spirit because I fell
less than when I don't do it right.

I do know that it is a part of my personality... along with an overly
perfectionist mother that added to the mix. So I know your struggles first
hand.

I do make sure that I don't impose those things onto my daughter (who has a
bit of it in her personality, too). I certainly don't want her to feel like
I do know... that who I am isn't enough. My goal is to raise a bright young
woman who knows deep down that who she is is most certainly enough.

Lesa
-------------------------------------------------------------

I believe that our children's concerns about their art is probably
developmental, that at some point they are seeing that there is a
discrepancy between
what is in their minds and what ends up on the paper. But when I see these

traits in my daughter, I wonder about perfectionism. I used to think my
perfectionism was created from my family and school, but I think that
perhaps it
is more of "me" than I previously thought. Yes, those influences had a
huge
impact, but perhaps they just intensified what was already there. My
daughter
has had very little of this type of imposed judgment, but she can be such a

perfectionist! It breaks my heart, sometimes.

Interesting topic to discuss!

Leslie in SC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lesa McMahon-Lowe

These are the same sort-of things that you do in P.E.T. (parent
effectiveness training). And you also express your view as "I really like
that picture..." the view is yours and not a boosting. It avoids telling
your child something that he may not believe himself, like... "you are a
good artist"... it will save your child the inner conflict that would happen
if he didn't believe he was a good artist.

I highly recommend reading the books... you can probably find the P.E.T.
book at the library.

There's also one from the Christian POV... I highly recommended it over at
the RCU yahoo group.

Here are the amazon.com links...

http://www.amazon
com/gp/product/0609806939/sr=8-1/qid=1140879955/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9512592-7970
04?%5Fencoding=UTF8

http://www.amazon
com/gp/product/0570037239/sr=8-8/qid=1140879955/ref=sr_1_8/103-9512592-797020
?%5Fencoding=UTF8

If you do a search for parent effectiveness training on amazon, you'll also
find other books that fit into the same theory of child/parent interaction.

Lesa

-------Original Message-------

From: Andrea
Date: 02/24/06 19:02:21
To: [email protected]
Subject: [unschoolingbasics] help for my 5 year old




My son went through this also, and he loves doing art. When my son would
say things like this, I would not ignore it, but I also wouldn't go into
"What are you talking about, you are a great artist!", because I knew that
he would know I was "boosting" him up (he would see it as artificial).
Instead, I would mirror how he was feeling and not try to fix his feelings
about it. "I hear that you are feeling badly because you think your art is
not good, is that right?" "I hear that you would like to become a better
artist, is that right?" After a lot of this, it would naturally lead to
solutions that we would find together, like finding an artist to work with,
talking about art that he likes and pulling ideas from it, putting on music
and seeing how different music affects our art time etc. and we would also
talk about art itself, why we want to do it etc.this helped him to see that
we don't do art so that we necessarily become great artists (though that
might happen!) but that we do it to express our feelings stories and to have
fun!



Andrea



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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