Jarmin (10) had a TV in his room for a while.
Disadvantages; His room is right next to mine, the noise bugged me. Couldn't add input or keep track of what they were watching, I was concerned that the boys (there is 4 of them) would be tempted to watch "too many"(for my comfort) shoot 'em up, glorifying violence type movies.
I had to go into their room to watch with them, something I love to do, we have a great channel, ABC, it has lots of great "educational" and fun kids shows, I like them better than most adult shows!
We just got satellite connected, just today, so cartoon network has been on most of the day, uuuggg, I don't like it, but they do. Jarmin likes nature shows, so do I, so I'm looking forward to some companionable watching with him.
I'm perfectly happy with just having a TV room. I like the idea of the compromises it brings with it.
I would go completely insane with this method of viewing. I'm 15 and my little brother and sister are 7 and 8. I am very much into watching the history channel and my country music videos. But they are all over cartoon network and Disney (not stuff I like to watch) when all this started it was a little hectic on who got to watch. My mom did try to set up a system to where we get to watch a few key programs.... that didn't work to well. Eventually we got bored of watching TV so much. So it all worked out and I only watch it maybe an hour a day. And I have a TV in my room, it sorta serves as a stand for my radio. The main point I was shooting for here was the more you restrict your kid the longer it'll take them to get over the new toy which is what the TV is viewed as from a child's eyes (no wonder they can set VCR clocks so easily, it's child's play).
Brett
Hey Neri,
My kids also love Cartoon Network. I have found a couple of programs that I enjoy with the kids. Ed, Edd and Eddie is OK but I really enjoy Spongebob Squarepants.
Maybe its because I'm from Texas and do karate, but the episode where Sandy and Spongebob try to keep from doing karate is one of my all time favorites.
Julie
I go back and forth on the TV issue. When the kids were toddlers I read The Plug In Drug and Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television. The kids mainly watched morning children's shows and some videos but my gut feeling was that it was too much TV. We sold our color TV and VCR and got rid of cable and got a little black and white TV. We watched that for a few months and then decided to do away with that too (there is something pathetic about seeing yourselves huddled around a small black and white TV).
For a few years we went without TV then we inherited another black and white. We watched that for a while and now have replaced it with a small, portable color with a built in VCR.
I am considering lobbying for getting rid of this one and doing without TV again. We don't have cable so the kids rarely watch TV at home. We do rent videos to watch at home and they watch a lot of TV at their grandparents' houses.
My current feeling is that TV itself is irredeemable, not the content (although I could argue that too) but the medium itself. There is a real detachment from reality that happens with TV, so different, I think, from the detachment or escape you get with reading a book or being absorbed in something you enjoy doing. Maybe there is a parallel with trying to reform schools. It will never work. I think I feel the same with TV. All the talk about good programming, etc. I think it misses the point. I think the medium itself is weak, a time stealer and sometimes harmful.
If I could start my children's childhoods over, I wouldn't have a TV at all. I never think back on the TV watching glowingly. I think we could have used the time in much better ways.
I didn't send my kids to public school because I thought there was a better option and that school could be potentially harmful. I'm thinking that TV feels similar to me.
Tammy
For the most part I agree Tammy. It's not that there isn't great stuff on there . . . there is. Just like I would imagine that in some schools, there is great stuff. But I still don't want the children going there. I got rid of cable as well, and then the other day, Bryan went and rented a couple of videos. So now Quinton, my two year old knows where the TV is again (we just moved so he didn't really know). Now that he knows, he wants us to put a movie on and sit with him, whereas before he would play in the room where we were working or reading, or whatever, and would ask for a story. I see with him that he becomes so passive and just wants to sit there and nurse while he watches. There may be other issues at play here, but I agree it's the medium itself that renders us passive. And my 12 year old agrees with me on that . . . she doesn't want it back either. Just the two guys (dad and son) :)
Also wanted to add that I understand and agree with a lot of the other points other posters made. . .I guess each family has to make the decision best for them.
lovemary
the main point I was shooting for here was the more you restrict your kid the longer it'll take them to get over the new toy which is what the TV is viewed as from a child's eyes
Excellent point Brett. And for me, all the more powerful because it's coming from a teenager, one of the population being discussed/affected.
Joy
Isn't TV just another tool to tell a story with?
Since time immemorial humans have learnt through stories, our great teachers taught us valuable social and spiritual lesson through stories. I feel that a lot of the fear people have about TV is because it is a relatively new invention.
I have lived for most of my life without a tele and although I don't regret our life without one for so long, I no longer have the negative judgment that I grew up with.
Discernment and balance is the key to quality living with TV, also appreciating what a miraculous and enjoyable invention it is. My mother has been very judgmental and restrictive about tele and, as I can see, it has caused resentment and paranoia, and I and my siblings have had/are having trouble developing social/communication skills, something that could have been alleviated with input gleaned from watching people relate on TV.
There is a real detachment from reality that happens with TV, so different, I think, from the detachment or escape you get with reading a book or being absorbed in something you enjoy doing. ....I think it misses the point. I think the medium itself is weak, a time stealer and sometimes harmful.
What's the difference between TV and unschooling.com?
TV has better music, very artistic camera work, some great plays and speeches performed by professionals, moving pictures of African animals I'll never see outside a zoo or on video, photographs and film footage of things happening in other countries TODAY... If that's so evil this thing you're sitting in front of right now which isn't even singing to you must be equally bad but less redeeming.
I think they're both pretty wonderful.
I disagree that kids are passive when they're watching TV. They're thinking, and you can't see that and you can't measure that and you can't buy it or produce it, but you can look for and appreciate it. Not physically moving doesn't indicate not doing or learning.
Nerinada made good points above.
The two anti-TV books people always refer too are two of the most irritating and false things I've ever seen. One I read through, and the other I just glanced through. I believe the authors are hugely wrong. When I taught, there were a few kids with older parents who lived way up in the mountains (Truchas and suchlike) and didn't have TV, never went to movies, didn't have any contact with people besides their own neighbors. They were thought-stunted, and idea-bereft many times. I felt really bad for them. The kids whose lives were full of input were also full of thoughts about that, and judgments about which of it was useful and which was noise. They were contrasting and comparing things they had read, heard, seen, thought, and that's probably another basis for my confidence in unschooling—the more exposure kids in school had to information in varied forms, the easier it seemed to be for them to catch on to something, because they had other information to hook it onto.
If my kids watched TV for hours each day, I might not be a good person to listen to about this, but I'll say it again: Unlimited access to TV and to food in my house has produced kids who only watch TV when they want to, and who only eat what they want to eat which is NOT a bunch of candy.
Holly asked for broccoli Tuesday. I bought some and cooked it before I knew she had gone to her friend's for an overnighter (she got the invite and left while I was shopping). So yesterday she asked about it, I reheated it and brought it to her at the TV where she was playing a game, waiting for the Simpsons to come on. She finished that bowl of broccoli, salt and butter, and asked for more with less butter.
I cooked the rest of it, and she ate most of it.
When The Simpsons ended she was done with the TV.
This isn't theoretical broccoli or TV, it was yesterday.
We saw a family we know with three younger children, going down a TOTALLY candy-filled aisle at the store with all three begging for candy and the mom just saying "NO, no, no, I said no."
Holly looked at me sadly, her eyes got bigger, and she shrugged sadly.
Sandra
There is a real detachment from reality that happens with TV, so different, I think, from the detachment or escape you get with reading a book or being absorbed in something you enjoy doing.
I agree there's a difference when watching TV, but I don't know if I consider it worse than reading a book or other enjoyable activities. When I'm absorbed in a good book, I can't interact with my kids at all. In fact, I sort of need a quiet environment to read, so it helps if they're otherwise occupied. Unless it's a book on tape, or I'm reading aloud to them, it's not an activity we can share. However, we can sit down and watch TV together. And we can talk or fool around or snuggle or draw or sew...at the same time.
I see with him that he becomes so passive and just wants to sit there and nurse while he watches.
I'm not trying to push TV viewing or anything, but this just seems like a sweet, intimate picture of mom/son time.
I never think back on the TV watching glowingly.
I wouldn't say I look back glowingly necessarily, but I do have some fond memories. When I look at my growing-so-fast 12 year old man-child, it's a sweet memory to recall those times we spent in front of Ninja Turtles or Power Rangers. And remembering how my now 7-year-old daughter used to sing along with Barney or Big Comfy Couch is a definite warm, fuzzy memory.
Of course I have many of these memories from all of the other activities we did, as well. Snuggling up with a book, rolling down the hills in summer, making crafts, playing in the mud...I just don't separate out the TV viewing times as "bad" memories while the others are "good."
I do agree with Sandra that TV is best done with the kids. I haven't been doing that enough lately and they seem to escape to it rather that share it with me. I'd better get up to speed on Dragonball-Z and Gundam Wing so I can see what Conor finds so fascinating. :o)
Life is good.
~Mary
It was the kids who asked us to get rid of the TV. They just didn't like it and felt like we could use the money we spent on cable for other things. Dh and I went through TV withdrawals, but the house seems so much more peaceful now that I wouldn't want to go back to TV. I don't think that we are going to be stunted in any way because we don't watch TV. There are so many things to do, and we are happier without the TV.
I do know that the kids felt the need to get rid of the TV completely instead of just not watching. It was like the very presence of the TV in the house bothered them for some reason. I don't know why.
We love TV. None of us apologize for it, though the three or four families who are our closest homeschooling friends just don't understand. Sometimes literally don't understand, I mean, since a decent portion of our conversation is littered with TV references.
A few months ago, Brit and Mikey memorized the Dexter's Lab opera (operetta?) episode. When's the last time you saw a six and three year old performing an opera? With choreography? It was awesome.
A couple of days ago Brit was watching Cartoon Network and saw their ad for CartoonNetwork.com — the child is a true daughter of the home business and knows what a dot com is. ;) So, she asked to go there.
We found some really great games — my youngest can manage the Ed, Edd and Eddie race track game.
I tried the Powerpuff Girls game and found it too tough for my gaming skills. I (stupidly) told Brit I thought it was too hard. (Brief Brittany tangent: think "The Princess and the Pea" — Brit only does things that are completely and totally comfortable for her in every way. If there is a pea of pain or frustration or irritation, she does not participate)) Brit said to me bracingly (I believe she even patted me on the shoulder), "That's okay, Mommy, if you keep practising you'll get better and better!" And then played it herself until she figured it out.
As others have said, getting lost in TV is no different than getting lost in a book or a computer screen. Or a song! The only two car accidents (fender benders, before kids) I was ever in were when I was singing some fairly complicated song from memory and my attention was distracted. (Now I can sing and drive at the same time, I am so talented).
Pam
As I said, the TV issue is something I go back and forth on. Sandra, your broccoli/Simpson's story is a good one to turn over. Your grocery store stories have been really helpful to me.
If we get rid of our TV I don't think there will be a danger of feeling socially or culturally out of it. The kids watch at their grandparents' and friends' houses.
I just finished C.S. Lewis' Surprised By Joy. I think reading about his childhood added fuel to my fire. Hours and hours of solitude, freedom, devouring books of every kind. I know it was a different era. If he would have had TV access I'm sure he would have had complete freedom there too. Also, he happened to choose books; he could have chosen running in the woods for hours and hours or working in their garden.
I know too that I have an ideal in my head—that my kids should be devouring books, having hours of solitude... I need to stare at this ideal for a while. Ideals can wreak havoc for me.
Tammy
If we get rid of our TV I don't think there will be a danger of feeling socially or culturally out of it. The kids watch at their grandparents' and friends' houses.
Would you have written the same thing about books? The computer? Your dishwasher? (If you have no dishwasher, this is not applicable, but if my kids said they wanted to get rid of any major appliance I owned I would be wholly unamused and uncooperative.)
I don't know all about Lewis's early home life but I'm guessing he didn't grow up in a tenement in Bradford. Maybe even his family HAD books, and perhaps they even had servants. I could be wrong.
2001 without a TV isn't more like 1910, in my opinion. It's just less like 2001.
Sandra
perhaps making sense to only her own self
I can understand this flip flop thing with the TV. I have a TV, but it's been broken for ten years and only the VCR works. We've all been too busy and no one has really asked but I notice how eager my children are to be around a TV...when we visit family and friends or go to a hotel. Yet, somehow no one has ever said let's get it here. But I am certainly leaning in the direction of getting one if it is requested. Ten years or even four years ago I would have said no way. Then I thought, not only would I not want someone to deny me the things I enjoy, but what if my children decided the only way they could get TV is to go to the neighbors or a friend's house? I'd rather be here, watching it with them, answering their questions, and available to deal with anything that comes up. In my opinion, it is the lack of interaction and no adult involvement with a powerful medium like TV, video, and video games that creates a problem. So many wonderful and creative things have come out of my children's experience with videos. Why would TV watching be any different as long as I'm there. And it isn't like a church in our den when we watch something together. Questions are asked and the batteries are well used on the remote from excessive pausing.
I haven't completely put my TV bias aside, partly because my son has difficulty viewing something without taking in the experience so vividly that he acts out even violent scenes. He has always been a child that gets hyper stimulated by visual mediums and I feel a need to protect him as though he has a limitation...like a diabetic not being able to eat sugar.
So, lots of conversation with your kiddos and loads of other things available to do and plenty of time spent together watching TV might be a happy compromise and demystify the whole TV thang.
Lise
"Maybe his family HAD books..."
From Surprised By Joy, by C.S. Lewis:
"My father bought all the books he read and never got rid of any of them. There were books in the study, books in the drawing room, books in the cloakroom, books (two deep) in the great bookcase on the landing, books in a bedroom, books piled as high as my shoulder in the cistern attic, books of all kinds reflecting every transient stage of my parents' interest, books readable and unreadable, books suitable for a child and books most emphatically not. Nothing was forbidden me. In the seemingly endless rainy afternoons I took volume after volume from the shelves. I had always the same certainty of finding a book that was new to me as a man who walks into a field has of finding a new blade of grass."
Tammy
It's one thing to own up to the fact that your kids watch oodles of TV, or swear, or run around naked, or have purple hair, or any of the multitude of 'social sins' that have been owned up to on these boards, but Sandra, have you no shame at all? Admitting in a public forum, that one of your children LIKES BROCCOLI??!!
Carol in NZ
(who believes that George Bush's (senior) only redeeming point was his declaration of independence from his mother's broccoli!)
Holly is okay. I mean I'm sure she'll grow up and get married and be able to hold a job and all that, but she does have that embarrassing oddity. She loves spinach and broccoli and artichokes. The scariest vegetables do not frighten her.
And here we are, very meat/corn/potatoes and she keeps saying, "Mom! Green stuff!"
She didn't get it from me.
(Actually Keith and I like spinach too, but we hardly have any friends or relatives who will eat it with us except Holly.)
Sandra
My kids all went through periods of loving broccoli and other vegetables, maybe when they need it, they want it. I never liked meat, my boys think I'm insane. Though they all went through a period of refusing meat for a while when they found out meat comes from animals!
TV: When the boys are on the verge of adulthood, this is one of the only forms of contact. We have one teeny little TV in the LR, it's the TV/VCR we used in the motorhome, so we all sit close if we watch something and discuss a lot of issues. I don't like TV much for little kids, there's just so much else to do but the ones who are busy don't like it much anyway in my house.
I think the TV *thing* will always be around. There are those who will not have it in the house - and those who have it on 24hrs a day. You love it or hate it (and there are those in between!)
I came here to this forum several times asking for help as my then 11yr old dd did nothing but watch TV.
She then started to go to work with dad quite often. She loved this - TV very rarely went on at all. Now dh has changed his job and dd cant go with him like she used to do. I thought *Oh no. TV all day again* - much to my surprise, dd finds other things to do. She still watches TV, she also plays with the play station and turns on the computer. This week she has started packing the house up as we are moving in two weeks. Everything is packed except for the necessities, and I didn't ask!! AND I haven't done any packing.
So here I am telling you all who do worry that your children are watching too much TV - it does pass! My daughter watched TV for 12 months when she first started unschooling, after six yrs at school. The sad thing is that daughter is talking about going back to school next year. We are going to a small township, where daughter has lots of cousins, who all go to school. She wants to go with them.
Marianne
What's the difference between TV and unschooling.com?
You can be found here, not there :)
That's reason enough for me to come here rather than watching TV.
Joy
"In the seemingly endless RAINY afternoons I took volume after volume from the shelves. I had always the same certainty of finding a book that was new to me as a man who walks into a field has of finding a new blade of grass."
Hmmm. Would anyone here who lives in a sunny climate chose to give up some of that sunshine and experience more rain in the hopes that more rain would lead to more reading?
What's the difference between TV and unschooling.com?
If we added enough filler to unschooling.com that there was enough material to fill 24 hours every day (::::: drooling ::::) the dross to gold ratio would tilt very heavily to dross, I imagine.
After all, how fast can you all spin gold?
Betsy
I didn't have TV, growing up, compensated by reading HEAPS, sure I picked up some valuable skills and was great at English, I've shared my love of books with my kids, used to drop everything to read to them on request, maybe 5-10+ times a day. Now that we have a tele, my time has been freed up a lot (I do like to watch with them though, but now I can fold washing, sew or even do dishes and cut vegetables AND share stories with them) I can keep on top of house chores just a little better.
I like the conversation TV generates and SEEING people do things as opposed to reading about them is valuable too, we (the kids and I) are making a fish/frog/turtle pond at the moment, and I wonder if I'd have the same kind of confidence to make it if I hadn't seen someone make one on TV.
We just got a satellite dish connected for PayTV, watching the man install generated an interesting physics conversation and now it's on we have an interesting time ahead of us.
The younger children are fascinated by the cartoons, me, my oldest and the men of the house want to watch some national geo and discovery channel shows, some negotiating is required.
The novelty of it is huge at the moment, but we are balancing it with gardening and digging our fish pond.
Do I restrict at all?
Or just wait for them to suss all the cartoons and decide which ones they like?
The cartoon network channel scares me a bit as I don't see the "educational" valuable as much as other channels.
Please, feedback would be appreciated.
Neri
Ok, I know this is a little OT....I noticed my kids will eat oodles of veggies and healthy stuff if I make it as readily available as the junk. The key to junk food is that you open a package and it's ready to eat...if you have healthy stuff as easy to get to, they will eat it just as much as the junk. At least, this is an observance I've made with my own and my nieces/nephews.
I think TV could be like that too.... the more options available, the more they will balance it all.
Actually, my kids eat lots more fruit and veggies while they're watching TV. I just cut some up and stick them in front of them while they're watching. They munch away.
Life is good.
~Mary