Zamozo: I got WoW themed V-day gifts from my kids

JillP: I was think about all the things we've learned in WoW and that if an educational site would take the bits and pieces and put it in a little school on the web format, homeschoolers would be all over it and paying more that WoW costs....

SandraDodd: I don't play WoW, so I'm just here to gather good stories from you all so that the next time someone comes around saying "all my kid wants to do is play WoW," we'll have a place to send her.

JillP: Like a little auction site to learn about buying and selling....

silas (Guest22): Cool background

SandraDodd: Thanks, silas.

JillP: And we get it all and lots of fun. I think fun is VERY important.

Zamozo: Zoe made me a card with the stats for a "Bow of Love" 68 - 99 damage; 29.50 dps; rare; Increases agility by 10; Increases Stamina by 9; Requires Level 33

silas (Guest22): Cool

JillP: That's Awesome!

Zamozo: Zach sent me something in WoW mail but I haven't picked it up yet -- in the middle of a quest and keep getting killed

JillP: Luke has an attitude about something in the game that I think really helps him in real life...

silas (Guest22): Is this chat about playing WoW or unschooling?

SandraDodd: It's about both.

silas (Guest22): Ok

SandraDodd: It's about how unschoolers find WoW beneficial.

JillP: There is a way to duel other characters in the game to learn how to fight that type of character and help your character get better.

Guest6: so what is the attitude, what is the thing in the game and how does it help in rl?

silas (Guest22): What do you mean by "beneficial"?

SandraDodd: in unschooling, beneficial=learning, and improvement of life one way or another.

JillP: Luke watches and watches people then duels them over and over and doesn't care that he loses many times....he just keeps going and says to me that he gets better and it's no matter about the losing.

Schuyler: How people find WoW an intense learning experience That's how it's beneficial I am so impressed with rogue duelers.

WendyW (Guest6): me too!

JillP: Luke's toon is a rogue...he's fast and good, toon = character.

WendyW (Guest6): YEs, he clocked my hunter. I couldn't even move

JillP: (brb making coffee for honey)) Schuyler: Rogues are the thieves in WoW, pickpocket and lock picks and they are fast and have stealth at higher levels than other characters.

Zamozo: I've mentioned it before but WoW really was the catalyst for Zoe's reading explosion

RVB:I've seen how Michelle has come to be accepting of others through her play. She started off being solely Horde, but has since created Alliance characters (after really disliking them). When she plays her Level 80 Troll hunter now, she will help Alliance players in their quests.

Schuyler: That's really cool.

Zamozo: The social aspects are really cool too

Schuyler: The social is amazing.

Wendy (Guest6): like... ?

Zamozo: Zoe really enjoys working with others, either them helping her or her helping them

Schuyler: The other day Linnaea was playing with a Palestinian living in Jordan.

Zamozo: She once created a guild based on helping others cool

Schuyler: And it was interesting to have that community touch down in places that are so very foreign to us.

Zamozo: Zoe plays regularly with an Australian living in Spain

RVB:Cool

Zamozo: Yay! Kirby's here

Schuyler: Even though her uncle is a Palestinian/ Jordanian living in Australia

Kirby: Hey everyone! Sorry I'm late.

Schuyler: I like Kirby's picture So is the Australian using an Australian account? I can't play in the U.S. without breaking Blizzard's rules

Zamozo: I don't know

Schuyler: When we were in Australia I was talking to someone about not being able to play with Australians using the European servers, or with Americans, and he said that the Oceania realms work on the U.S. realms as well.

SandraDodd: The other night Brett (Holly's boyfriend) asked if I knew what was cool about that picture of Kirby. I think all pictures of Kirby are cool.

JillP: Social aspects...we traveled to SC to meet some friends we met through the Horde of Unschoolers. and it was great sitting in a room with two adults and 3 kids playing in the battlegrounds and yelling come save me, sos -and-so killing me...we were loudly excited and helping each other and having a blast.

SandraDodd: But Brett said that when people beat a boss they take a screenshot, but Kirby does photos of himself and the screen, which is different and cool.

Zamozo: Cool, what game is that on the screen?

JillP: There's an Aussie in our guild. That takes some precise timing, Kirby, no?

Schuyler: I know people here who have travelled to meet people in their guild. It is another way of meeting strangers.

Zamozo: I've been impressed with the general kindness and helpfulness of WoW players.

RVB:Another thing - Michelle has figured out the finer points of sociability in game. She'll go afk and come rant (in her words) to me to let off steam, then goes back to playing. She rarely loses it in game and tries very hard to be polite.

SandraDodd: When people started talking about social advantages, I was thinking it would be the interactions within the game or the guilds, but besides that there are real life meetings, and the knowledge gained from playing with people in other countries and culture s

JillP: There are lost of nice people, I'm very generous in the game, and finding others likewise.

Kirby: Sorry about that! I have been having some computer problems as of late.

RVB:We had a great time meeting people from all over at Blizzcon, though none of Michelle's guildies were there.

Kirby: It has been randomly powering down on me.

SandraDodd: And the self-knowledge gained from knowing that people can learn even when they're losing? (That learning, in the rogue-battles [line/term?] situations is important?)

Zamozo: Zoe has experimented with her "retorts" as she calls them. Being a little adventuresome in talking back to a rude player. She isn't disrespectful but a bit more assertive in her anonymity.

JillP: Yes, Sandra.. we were playing with 2 people from Brazil...one couldn't write in English...the other guy translated and I used a bit of my spanish, not portugese, and we had fun communicating.

Zamozo: She is usually defending somebody else who is getting flack from a rude player.

JillP: Luke has held his own socially in the game, both kids are good at ignore if they need to

SandraDodd: One thing I'd like to add later, with Jill's photos and any other "Oh I forgot!" notes and photos from anyone else here, is something Kelli Traaseth wrote to me after they stayed at our house once. She had watched Kirby playing WoW, and wrote me something very sweet about how good he was at managing large groups

JillP: One thing that can be hard in the game is to get a group together to run a dungeon (5man). Luke got a group together for a bigger instance...a 10 man, and he did it! He was so excited.

Zamozo: awesome!

JillP: Yes, that can be so hard. Lukea and Addi both are really good at that, and they've had no problem kicking an unhelpful person out.

Kirby: I learned a bunch about role playing servers that weekend, Abbi Traaseth played her character in a way that is totally different than anyone else I've known.

JillP: And they had to do it all by typing in the chat box.

RVB:One of the reasons WoW has been good for Michelle is that she sometimes has difficulty socializing irl. Some of the things she's learned in WoW have helped her sort some of that out. Just the opposite of what people say about gaming, I think.

SandraDodd: Kirby, is it something you can describe?

JillP: We recently joined a roleplaying guild, because we saw them doing some really cool things in the game. Luke and I had to fill out applications online to join them. It's been an amazing experience.

RVB:Michelle's really fascinated with the roleplaying aspect, now, too. She tends to "be" her toon, anyway LOL

Kirby: She spent an hour having a conversation with another player, during this time she would walk around a city and act out exactly how that character would wander a city. (Hide behind something, sit at the dock), most other players will be out killing stuff.. To level their characters as fast as possible.

JillP: There are long stories of the characters on the guild website, and lots of them follow wow lore.

Kirby: The rush wasn't there, she was just enjoying the game for what it was.

JillP: Yes, sometimes it looks like the characters are just standing around, but there is lots of talk going on.

SandraDodd: I've seen Marty wander around the Morrowwind place and take books off shelves and look into things. Holly used to go to (eek! It's Holly!) to Halo and hang out in the warthog and just talk to people, without joining the battle

JillP: and you're following a story.

kellitraas: darn, I'm late, was at the wrong chat site, Hi everyone ..:-)

Kirby: A lot of people will play to get to the level cap (Currently level 80), they feel that is when the game really starts. (You can raid) Exactly Holly lol.

JillP: We had a character really die in the game the other night.... she talked about all the things she and another character had done to bring a dead one back to life and she "killed " her character.... Then she paid the service to rename a character and brought the new one on to play...Since she was done with that story line.

Schuyler: There was a recent post on unschooling basics about how the level cap is the point when addiction is most likely to set in. What is different about level 80 than the rest of the game?

JillP: A level 80 can go more places and survive more things. Why would the addiction set in at lvl 80?

Kirby: When you get to level 80, there is a whole new set of Dungeons, designed for up to 10 or 25 players each.

Schuyler: I don't know, I haven't been to level 80. I just wondered what the difference might be.

Kirby: They are the really challenging part of the game.

kellitraas: We've actually played more when we're leveling up to the level cap

JillP: It seems there is always something to do in the game, so I think a person's addiction tendency could be anywhere in the game.

Kirby: Many of the fights there require the group to be very organized.

JillP: Same here Kelly.

kellitraas: For Alec, the serious raider, he only gets on 3 or 4 nights a week now, for raids when leveling he was on pretty continually to get the job done

HollyDodd: When I used to play Halo I had some 'friends' who would de-level, because they loved leveling so much that would undo it to do it again.

JillP: I've been impressed with the attention to detail one can do in this game.

HollyDodd: Or as some of them would put it.. they love to "pwn newbz" so they'd delevel and play easier guys.

JillP: All the armor, spells, action bar set up, stats for weapons and armor.

kellitraas: yes, how broad/big the game is

JillP: Luke will talk techy with his friends about what armor to use for a particular toon. He'll go in the auction house and look at equipment for long periods of time.

RVB:I am amazed by all the aspects Michelle can keep track of while playing. She seems able to see a complete picture at all times.

kellitraas: yes, comparing the stats on armor/weapons is some serious math ..:-)

JillP: He's got lists of what to use to twink (a very powerful character for a particular level) his guys. And switch out armor and weapons for certain types of fighting. I'm guessing most people here know, but for another day or so, there is a valentine quest line to get pretty roleplaying clothing. I just started paying attention to that being in an rp guild now, because I needed something to look pretty.

WendyW: Valentines ended at 6 am this morning

JillP: /cry well whoops, then One more thing about the social aspects.... is that my kids and I have made characters with my sister, their aunt to play together...she lives 1000 miles from us. they talk over skype and play the game....it's a great way to be doing something fun and chatting with their aunt.

Zamozo: Yes, it's a fun way to keep in touch with loved ones far away. We play with friends who moved away last summer.

kellitraas: my kids have done that too, really cool, playing with cousins who are states away and friends all over the country

SandraDodd: I was counselling a divorced mom (SCA-related, not unschooling related) who lives in Farmington, New Mexico (a hole) and her ex and mother of her daughter lives in England. I recommended they play an online game together so they could talk to each other and the mom rejected the idea because games are violent Few things are as "violent" as taking a half-English kid to Farmington, New Mexico

JillP: Yes, and for me it's been fun to sort of keep a connection I've made with people...

RVB:Michelle has not seen her "best friend" for over 6 months, but they stay connected through playing.

JillP: I ran around Azeroth one time, getting a prairie dog for Linnaea's character.

Zamozo: I "met" a grandmother who started playing to strengthen her connection to her grandkids - now she plays a lot even when they're not.

JillP: I've played with Kyra and Kelly for a bit.

SandraDodd: Correction: her ex and the FATHER of her daughter. (Sorry; thanks, Holly)

JillP: That's one cool grandma.

kellitraas: yes, I love the intergenerational aspect as well

SandraDodd: Kirby, are we all going to be present at the death of your computer!?

kellitraas: one of Kyra's best friends right now through WoW is a Mom with 2 small children, they role play together and level

SandraDodd: Is there much expectation that people within the game will tell their ages? Does it matter? It seems I've seen kids "commanding"/leading groups of adults (what's the word in this context?)

Zamozo: my mom humored Zoe and started a character when she was visiting at T-giving - got to level 2

kellitraas: for my kids they wait for quite a while before they'll talk real ages, and some times they'll never tell other players

Zamozo: Zoe gets asked how old she is frequently

JillP: My kids might not ever tell their age, depends.

kellitraas: right

Zamozo: but she always says she doesn't give personal info -- which probably pegs her as a minor at least

JillP: The people in our rp guild, think Luke (10) is an adult.

Schuyler: Linnaea tells her age if asked

HollyDodd: Does she get asked because of how she writes/spells, or how she plays the game?

Zamozo: we had an interesting experience a while back

JillP: because he plays well and fast and chats fast and spells well.

Zamozo: Holly - maybe

kellitraas: Abbi who is 14 rarely tells people and several are convinced that she's an adult not wanting to tell her age, she just says "ok"

Schuyler: Often because she's being flirted with, I think

Kirby: Bleh, we just might be at the death of my computer for the time being,. (Sorry, multi tasking at the moment.)

Schuyler: It usually stops the flirtation

JillP: I don't see much flirting on this game compared to other games.

Zamozo: Zoe played A LOT with a female toon - and assumed the player was female as well. I played with them some and then one day the other player whispered me that they had a problem... turned out the player was a male and felt bad for misleading Zoe to think he was female -- he was worried she would be upset but he wanted to come clean it was kind of weird

JillP: why was that weird?

kellitraas: we know quite a few female toons who are guys

SandraDodd: Was she upset?

Zamozo: I coached him to confess to her while I was on and told him she wouldn't be upset

JillP: I play guy toons and girl toons.

Zamozo: she wasn't upset

RVB:Sometimes, more information comes out about players, like a dad who went afk to go to look after his kids. So even if people don't tell their ages, their circumstances "out" them. When Michelle plays with Ventrillo, people can tell she's not an adult.

Zamozo: it was weird that he was so worried about it

JillP: ah.

SandraDodd: But it was kindly, it seems.

Zamozo: yes, it did seem kindly

SandraDodd: He didn't know, maybe, if she would consider him a pervert.

Zamozo: maybe

WendyW: My son loves to make new characters. He loves the mixing of class and character and likes to repeat the same quests. He's 11 and likes to quest with us (hubby and I), but mostly revels in the new alts

SandraDodd: Maybe.

Zamozo: it helped reinforce the idea that we never really know who we're playing with -- unless we really know them

katherand: LOL.... not game related but I was mod in a forum once where the forum female owner said "he" was coming clean and admitting to being male. ..;-) I thought it weird.

Zamozo: she reassured him that his gender made no difference to her -- that she'd made male toons before too

SandraDodd: In a way it doesn't matter who you're playing with So it's possible to play without any role playing angle whatsoever?

kellitraas: right that's what my girls say for roleplaying, they don't mind

SandraDodd: Like people choose a character just for practicality's sake without any emotional investment?

Zamozo: no, it doesn't matter -- although my suspicious nature had me wondering if this was some convoluted ploy to gain even more trust -- to what end I don't know but that's my paranoia sometimes

Kirby: Yes Mom, often there are people who will roll a brand new character just to play a different role in the game (The healer, or a spell caster for damage for example)

kellitraas: yep, Alec picked a dwarf because of increase damage with a gun, the rest of us liked the way our characters looked

Kirby: But it is also to play the same game (Questing, clearning dungeons) but from a different angle almost.

SandraDodd: Do you guys mind if I ask questions that will help me and other non-players be able to talk about it outside to other unschoolers? I'm interested in "real-time writing," which doesn't really exist in school but does online and in games

JillP: Go ahead.

Zamozo: sometimes Zoe will say in a face-to-face conversation, "btw Dad..."

SandraDodd: When people learn to read traditionally, it's with "graded readers" where the stories aren't really about anything. But reading in a game is very different. It's for a real purpose. And when someone writes, there is an immediate effect

Schuyler: Linnaea likes to write on-line, and her writing is abbreviated, she uses a lot of acronyms. There isn't a lot of concern with the packaging, but the substance is important. Being funny is important. Commenting is important.

SandraDodd: There's a social skill, "funny is important."

Schuyler: Saying lol to a joke, or shrug

Zamozo: yes, I think that real purpose and immediate effect hastened Zoe's skill development and how!

SandraDodd: I saved a college paper on which a professor had written, "Funny, but good."

Schuyler: That's funny and good.

RVB:Michelle says her reading and writing have improved a lot since she started playing. She types faster than I do, too. I think her sense of humor has improved, also!

Schuyler: Social seems to be a big part of the communication. It doesn't appeal nearly in the same way to Simon

Zamozo: Same for Zach - doesn't care so much about the social side -- IRL, he's pretty introverted

JillP: the writing is important because in the game, that's your way of communicating mainly.

Schuyler: He prefers Halo where he is talking, too, to WoW where he has to write, our computer connection isn't good enough for on-line chat

JillP: There are a few voice options.

SandraDodd: What things have you learned besides reading, writing and social interaction skills and learning?

Schuyler: Mapping Mapping is really important.

JillP: Yes!

RVB:History (lore).

Guest29: math, economics

Schuyler: Memory, references, priorities, i.e. do a bunch of quests in an area before turning them in or turn them all in one at a go.

JillP: Elements....metals,

Schuyler: math, definitely math, engineering concepts plant lore

SandraDodd: real plants or the concept of plant lore?

Schuyler: how things are made

Zamozo: Reading comprehension -- pulling out of the quest descriptions what you need to do. Zoe struggled with that at first - I would read the quest with her and then distill it to the important information

Schuyler: the concept of plant lore the ideas of construction, of making something

kellitraas: more about the computer, what it takes for it to run the game smoothly

Schuyler: The ideas apply to the rest of life

JillP: Organizing amount of things you can carry, what's important to keep or throw away.

SandraDodd: logistics, ergonomics, management?

RVB:How to organize a group with the right talents required.

Schuyler: Yeah

Zamozo: strategy

WendyW (Guest29): indirect interaction with a group, example of guild bank and group money

kellitraas: patience

Schuyler: Reciprocity

JillP: But it's also fun to see a group without the right talents perform...

RVB:Yes.

Zamozo: /lol

katherand: comedy

Zamozo: ingenuity

JillP: We did zul'Farrak with 2 priests and 3 warlock (all cloth wearers) and had the best time ever!!!

Schuyler: Asking for help

JillP: Generosity/sharing.

RVB:Working with what you have.

Zamozo: random acts of kindness -- buffing passersby

RVB:Yes!

katherand: did we mention banking?

Schuyler: community

JillP: Research

SandraDodd: The other chat involved researching from other sites, too. It seems to me if someone can use the internet for researching one thing, they could easily apply it to any other projects or questions or needs.

RVB:Michelle researches Japanese for toon names.

Schuyler: To google something means far more than to look it up in the dictionary in our house.

katherand: survival needs; practical stuff

Zamozo: art inspiration - Zoe wants to draw toons on her computer

RVB:Michelle makes clay toons of her guildies.

JillP: All of this stuff is applicable to any other projects, needs. connections, right/ ?

Schuyler: yes

WendyW (Guest29): signing off to eat lunch w/ the family. Thanks for hosting this. I'll look forward to reading the rest of the conversation.

Schuyler: And even if it isn't it's darned fun danged fun?

SandraDodd: They're skills kids rarely get in school, too. Most social stuff is criticized.

JillP: Sometimes even in the game WoW is criticized.

Schuyler: But if the social stuff isn't present, if they have a hard time with socializing, they are also criticized.

JillP: Did anyone mention humor up above? it's so fun to play this game and laugh with others. Well that's just danged or darned fun anywhere.

SandraDodd: Holly says within Halo people would insult each other for not having a life outside of Halo.

Schuyler: Wow is a wonderful venue for working on those kinds of skills. They build up without the same kinds of costs that you get in practicing during recess.

Zamozo: We had so much fun early on - several of us gathered our toons in one place and then /dance to iTunes - laughing!

kellitraas: yes, just recently people were criticizing others who got to 80 too quickly... they thought those people needed to get out and get a life, and I said it was pretty funny that they were saying that and here they were on the game ..:-)

JillP: I've heard people call WoW world of warcrack. I think it's the same as a teacher covering the classroom window so kids wouldn't look outside and daydream, while she teaches weather from a book.

RVB:It seems a pretty common thing. People are told they shouldn't like it so much. That message is everywhere.

Schuyler: It's a funny thing. Simon doesn't like WoW. He has totally free access to the game, no pressure, nothing, It just isn't his kettle of fish. Linnaea really has liked it, although will go ages without playing. Maybe it's genetic (wink) I really enjoy it, though. Although I get frustrated starting new characters. And other things are more interesting, often.

JillP: I really enjoy it too, and sometimes I wonder why I like it so much.

kellitraas: I've wondered the same thing Jill

Zamozo: same here - I enjoy it and often long to play but can only sit and play for an hour or two then I grow weary of it time flies while I'm playing though

JillP: Is it because I now see it in a different light, than wasting time? or that I didn't grow up with atari games?

Schuyler: It's the subliminal messages from the graveyard Isn't that where they are supposed to be?

Zamozo: I didn't know about supposed subliminal messages

JillP: I think you're right Schuyler, and I'm not believing those messages anymore. Was I brain washed?

Schuyler: www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Bzyq-Xag8

RVB:I play sporadically, but I love that Michelle likes to tell me about everything that's happening.with her toons. I am fascinated by her immersion in the game and all the things she's enjoying (or not) about it.

SandraDodd: Maybe your priorities in life are different, and you're no longer counting hours and charting progress

JillP: and I'm now wringing out my brain? and it's freeing and wonderful.

SandraDodd: (if you ever really were, even if just in case the voices in your head wanted to see your accounting.)

Schuyler: You'd think if you died less you wouldn't want to play so much.

katherand: subliminal messages are supposed to be from the backmasking on rock and roll songs. hehe

JillP: /lol

Schuyler: I seem to prefer the game when I die less. I play very differently to Linnaea

Zamozo: "chivalrous your money?"

RVB:I've noticed that even when I play as badly as I do, the time just flies. I see how really knowing and enjoying what you are doing can take up a lot of time.

Schuyler: I like to start quests and finish them I like the linear aspects of the game

Zamozo: me too

JillP: I'm so attracted to the healing types, I die often. And it's a GREAT moment when my cloth wearing priest out smarts a plate wearing Paladin!!!!

Schuyler: Linnaea likes to wander and explore and to buy things on auction and to hang out She likes to play with other people more. I like to start something and finish something and move on to the next thing.

kellitraas: Alec told me I would level quicker if I was more linear , lol, I am so not linear so it really does attract all types of people as we've been saying

Schuyler: Absolutely

JillP: I've not thought of this game as linear, because there's so much to do...a quest, then I need to buy something from the auction house, oh yeah, and then I need to work on my engineering.

SandraDodd: What kind of engineering is there? What would you be making or setting up?

kellitraas: and the world is so huge so if someone gets bored with one area you can go somewhere else

Schuyler: I'm often playing to level Simon's or Linnaea's character to a certain level That may make my approach more quest driven

JillP: Then I go gather materials because I want to make all my friends discombobulator rays!

kellitraas: Alec made a helicopter with engineering

JillP: I send those to my friends on their real life birthdays, that or 100 gold.

Schuyler: I want to be your friend on WoW. Linnaea still remembers you as the deliverer of pets

kellitraas: and now you can make a chopper/motorcycle

Schuyler: That is your renown in our house

JillP: That was fun.

Zamozo: I'm pretty quest driven too - not so much exploring except to open up my maps. I played for a long time before I chose a profession. Not so much into that aspect except in how it can help my character.

JillP: Ah sweet.

Zamozo: Zach plays to experience every aspect he can -- that's how he approaches all his video games - do and see everything.

Schuyler: It was sweet. I really enjoyed playing in the Horde

JillP: with engineering you can make gadgets to blow up doors or enemies, or turn them into funny things. or ridable items.

RVB:Oh, yeah. Professions. It's a way to try out jobs! Not that all of them would be as useful irl, but still....

kellitraas: gathering all the materials for making things whether it's engineering or tailoring or what have you takes quite a bit of organizational skills

SandraDodd: I think it could be useful, RVB--for kids to experiment with investing a lot of time and learning into something and either stick with it or change. WAY cheaper than paying off student loans!

RVB:Agreed.

JillP: I know a kid who dreams about making the WoW engineering items in real life. and makes little toys of the items to play with.

kellitraas: I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how much cloth I needed for my carpet, Alec helped me out a lot there, his linear thinking helped me

SandraDodd: What about the expense of the game? If someone were to start cold, how much would it cost to buy the game and subscribe (?) and buy a computer powerful enough to play it?

JillP: I'm saving gold and materials to make a mechano-hog now, but I have a feeling I'm going to give it to Luke's character! Luckily he'll be able to give me a ride!

Schuyler: I can play it on our old, 6 years old, computer Oh, 7 years old I don't know how much computers cost in the U.S.

Zamozo: Zach has an old PC but prefers to play on my iMac -- better graphics by far. $15/mo per account

RVB:Gotta go! It's been fun. Robin B. (RVB)

SandraDodd: It's more a hypothetical question, because people talk about the expense

Schuyler: The monthly fee is £8.99 a month

JillP: $600+ for comp, $20 - 80 for game

katherand: I want to get one of those cheap eMacs for Karl... think it'd play on that?

Zamozo: plus expansion

JillP: after the first month, there is a montly fee of $15

SandraDodd: Other hobbies are way more expensive.

JillP: yeppers

Schuyler: Swimming lessons cost more

JillP: Plenty of our guild people are computer guys, and they talk about this being a hobby and how to keep your computer clean of viruses and such, and that they'll help anyone if they need it.

Zamozo: A friend is contemplating buying 2 more computers so both her kids can play at the same time and she still has a computer to access.

SandraDodd: Keith and Marty are in Arizona (probably on their way home), where they've been in armor, and rain, and needed to actually eat and sleep, and are pulling a trailer loaded with stuff. They can learn and do many of the same kinds of things you can do in the game but they could also get physically injured

Schuyler: We have 3 plus David's work computer

JillP: and they give ideas of what to invest in, what helps, etc.

SandraDodd: and I'll have to do a lot of laundry. And they'll have to repair their armor, and maybe set the tents up to dry, and and and and

katherand: also is there a way to start with WoW for free?

Zamozo: We can WoW all day in our PJ's if we want

Schuyler: Right, WoW isn't a laundry making game.

SandraDodd: Nor a need-knee-surgery game

Schuyler: You can download a 10 day trial

Kirby: It was fun! I've got to get ready for work. See you later everyone! (And do a load of laundry, yikes!)

JillP: We have to repair armor too...I had to pay over 6 gold the other day! for a priest!!!

SandraDodd: Bye, Kirby! Love you

Kirby: I love you too mom. <3

Zamozo: A friend can recommend it to you -- then if you purchase an account after your trial period - they'll get a free month.

JillP: Ah, that's what Addi types to me in the game!

Zamozo: Oh yeah, lots of love chat xchanged between Zoe and me when we're both playing.

JillP: Yeah, and I get mail with gold and sweet notes, and all.

SandraDodd: And if Jill cobbles together a vehicle, she doesn't actually have to stay awake for 600 miles and stop for gas!! I want to encourage Keith to start playing WoW. ..:-)

katherand: a family that plays WoW together stays together... ..;-) :0

JillP: Yeah, and I get to play with Luke and excitedly cheer each other on to go here or there, and let's get that enemy, wait stop for that titanium vein, will you?

Schuyler: What about a family that plays Halo together?

Zamozo: sometimes the kids and I have long conversations that are practically meaningless to dh, they want him to play but he resists

katherand: A family that Halos together is angelic

Schuyler: It takes a lot of time WoW Drat and me an atheist

JillP: my hubby couldn't get into it, just wasn't his cup of tea.

SandraDodd: Hey, are there religions developing along with any of this RPG business? Does the lore of WoW include beliefs or icons?

Schuyler: David made a character, but it was more time than he had.

katherand: This is RPG Sandra... you could pretend.

Zamozo: Rick has time - but prefers to spend it chillaxin in front of the TV I don't blame him

SandraDodd: I don't mean real religion to bring out of the game, but whether there were shrines or deities of any sort

katherand: Yes Sandra. There are religions... Wicca for one.

SandraDodd: for different groups

Zamozo: oh yeah

JillP: I've not seen religions, but there are clans and leaders that others follow.

SandraDodd: Inside the game?

JillP: and alliances that the different races make with each other.

katherand: Nevermind... I"m thinking of another game I think.

SandraDodd: So there are cult-of-personality situations?

JillP: Ah what about Scarlet Monastery?

SandraDodd: Or hooking up with successful guilds?

Zamozo: I can't quote any of it - but I know there have been quests where certain shrines needed to be visited etc.

SandraDodd: (I want to know later, katherand) Okay, I was just curious.

katherand: I'm trying to remember the name of it.

JillP: The Bloodelves follow Illidan for a long time, but he's a bad guy now, and ruined their sunwell, which they need for there arcane energy, without it they die.

katherand: (Ok)

SandraDodd: Because when a game or situation keeps growing and becoming an alternate world, sometimes it develops other aspects of "a world"

Zamozo: I don't follow the lore much -- there's just so much to take in and I haven't been playing all that long so I'm still learning

JillP: There are books you can read throughout the game, and some of them tell you lore, others are like.... A Steamy Romance Novel.

Zamozo: I tend to click through the story that is told at the beginning of a new character creation

JillP: and a cookbook. How to Cook Man.

SandraDodd: Like fan fiction?

Zamozo: books in the game?

SandraDodd: wait... books throughout the game meaning the books exist within the program?

JillP: no, in game quips and info. yes, the books exisit in the game,

SandraDodd: wow.

Zamozo: I remember I was on a quest to gather chapters to a manual -- but I didn't read it, never finished that quest

JillP: sometimes as something you can take and carry , others just to leave there and read Yeah, Chris those are awful quests. I never do those.

Zamozo: Zach told me not to bother

SandraDodd: Harvest Moon has a diary (it's how you save the game) and in Game Cube there were books that you could read about your animals and about selling ducks or chickens, Holly says. In Morrowwind, there are books on bookshelves, and when you open them they have information.

Zamozo: I've seen a book on the ground and peeked at it but moved on

Schuyler: In Fallout 3 there are books that up your stats.

SandraDodd: Holly says there are recipe books in Harvest Moon, too

JillP: I've started to read them now, because I want to know the lore of the game. I think these is a book or 2 that you can carry (off hand) in the game that ups your stats. for the wand bearers.

Zamozo: oh, i'm a priest

JillP: Me too.

SandraDodd: (Wondering partly if there's a book-worship aspect! ..:-) )

JillP: Not really.

Zamozo: nah

JillP: it's usually in a library, and it's part of a quest .

SandraDodd: Within the game, how to people learn to play? By doing, but can they just ask help of people inside the game? Is that okay? to=do

JillP: or humor. like the How to cook Man, that drops from the ogres.

Zamozo: yes, I think willing helpers hang out around the starting areas sometimes

JillP: A quest will pop up from the quest givers.

Schuyler: By playing, you can ask others, but the starting quests are fairly easy to find and do.

Zamozo: They're kind of leading quests

JillP: People do ask for help, but if they ask too much, you can tell they are just not reading quests and it gets to be a pain for other players.

Zamozo: to learn the basic skills true

Schuyler: That said, I've known someone who plays without much parental help and he has been much slower to get through the beginning stuff than Simon or Linnaea with my help.

Zamozo: I know that Zach was a big help to Zoe early on but now she's surpassed him -- she helps him and they both help me

SandraDodd: I'm guessing it's hard to share this enthusiasm with some people who ask what you do with your kids or how they learn, if the most they can understand is "we play WoW."

Schuyler: Other players are really important, but you can a get a huge amount of information from the internet.

Zamozo: I have a friend who sits by her kids' side and does the reading and typing for them -- but they're WAY more advanced in the game than I am

JillP: This game is not intuitive, if you can't read the quests.

SandraDodd: (I don't understand half of what's gone by here, and I even want to understand it.)

JillP: There is an add-on to play the game without reading.

Schuyler: I think there may be a cultural illiteracy about MMORPGs for some people Really?

Zamozo: digital immigrants?

SandraDodd: I've done a lot of encouragement and feeding and maintenance and paid for some games and accounts, but I haven't touched the game. Yet Kirby lives a Blizzard-and-WoW life.

JillP: omg, pwn noob.

Zamozo: Jill - "pwn?"

JillP: lol,

Schuyler: I love the word pwn.

Zamozo: ??

JillP: a missspelling of the word "own" and means I got you, I beat you. something like that.

Schuyler: Simon pwns people a lot, not in the game, just as a fun word to say

socal77: It is a contraction of power and owned

SandraDodd: I'm asking Holly and she's saying it's like to own, to pone someone, to pone them in the face

socal77: powned

SandraDodd: <>>

Schuyler: Simon and Linnaea say pone I say pwn, like pawn without the a

Zamozo: hmmm

JillP: I say it like Simon and Linnaea.

SandraDodd: Holly says it all started with typos

Zamozo: Sandra - you should play I'd help you

socal77: but it is pronounced powned

JillP: I agree with Holly.

SandraDodd: okay

Schuyler: I've looked it up, it has more than one official pronounciation I like the feel of pwn

Zamozo: so would you say, "I pwn you?"

socal77: I wasn't rying to be a stickler, just repeat what Drew has said in the past

SandraDodd: Holly says it's own with a p so it's like pone

JillP: you can, Chris , but people just yell pwnd.

Zamozo: PWND

socal77: yes that is what I meant , holly is right

JillP: heh heh.

SandraDodd: What hasn't been said? That list of math, engineering and all was good and it will go on a page where people can find it. What else? history? (the concept of history/lore, and the unfolding of a game as it gets bigger) This "northrend" map.

Schuyler: I would totally say I pwn you

JillP: Sandra, you asked a question earlier, i'm trying to find it....did you geat an answer?

SandraDodd: It's like a new world Jill, I have no idea.

Zamozo: I dunno if this is important but for us, WoW has been a nice equalizer

SandraDodd: ages?

Zamozo: Zoe is 6-1/2 years younger than Zach and has always fretted about not being able to do things as well ash im him

Schuyler: WoW takes less skill than games like Halo do. Or a different kind of skill. Halo is about so much going on at once and it's hard to deal with, like dueling a rogue.

JillP: Yes. Luke and I play with our 7 year old friend.

Zamozo: and now, she can keep up and do better than him and me -- makes her feel proud I think

Schuyler: I think WoW is much more accessible

JillP: She used her dad’s character and would protect me when I was leveling.

SandraDodd: I have a lot of respect for Holly's Brett, hearing him make peace among the people in the guild he's in. They do 25-man raids a few times a week. They have officers. Meetings of officers. Social problems, politics, hurt feelings.

JillP: Yep. that takes a lot of work and leadership

SandraDodd: And I overhear him being calm and encouraging

Zamozo: they're using voice chat ?

JillP: That's awesome, we have some people like that in our guild.

SandraDodd: Most people don't get a chance to do that unless they're military officers or business managers They do use headsets, yes

JillP: FTW Brett, playing on the comp with My pretty ponies! FTW = for the win!

SandraDodd: When I hear him be so compassionate and capable, I'm impressed with skills I don't get to see in him other times that photo is here, for others who might've missed it: http://sandradod.com/brettandholly Brett's computer is in the room where Holly's My Little Ponies are.

JillP: That's really cool, Sandra, and about equalizing, I've seen Luke (10) do those same things. although not leading guild meetings..

Guest6: hello

JillP: Thanks again, Sandra. and Bye All, need to take Addi to rollerskating now.

Guest6: I guess i missed most of the chat ..:-(

SandraDodd: I know from the SCA the division between people who say "it's only a game" and others who see it as a place with real feelings, real interactions and feelings. You missed it all, pretty much, 6; sorry

Schuyler: Bye Jill

Guest6: oh well next time I stick myself a note up so a remember quicker

SEPARATE BUT RELATED: Someone asked on the UnschoolingDiscussion list the other day for ways in which she could describe her son's learning for a portfolio. Mostly he's been playing WoW. Some of the responses: Let's see... map reading, mythology, reading skills, teamwork, goal-setting and decision making. Probably some computer hardware and networking troubleshooting if his experience of WoW in the past year is anything like mine. Budgeting and time-management, depending upon whether you're asking him to pay for his own account and the recent expansion or not. - Lars Even if he doesn't pay for his own account... he's still doing budgeting within the game itself, isn't he? He's certainly doing lots with numbers. ~Katherine Very true - money management skills, including a great education in the functioning of a market economy, all the more so if he plays at the Auction House to make gold. Macroeconomics, market distortions, bubbles and collapses... a fantastic education just there! - Lars LINKS from a prior chat: www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/emotes.html There's a cool list of emotes. This gives good wow info, and helps me when I need quick lore... www.wowwiki.com/ This one is good when you just can't figure out your quest... For hunters, petopia.brashendeavors.net/ is great for information on hunter pets. VIDEOS: dancing video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=066_q4DIeqk I really like the WoW Tacoma truck add. www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_ueohYRhU ROFLMAO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWgs6YQR9A&feature=channel Epic Raids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3DHdIMMa9g Twelve Days of Winter's Veil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDu-1N1hqKM&feature=channel We Eat Flesh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9UCXt-lFw Red Snappah (with Bugs Bunny references) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5q-r2DF18&feature=related Here's another WoW machinima, done to Weird Al's "Your Horoscope for Today." It came out before the last two expansion packs, so is a bit outdated, but it's still pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4TyqYsC26g —Robin

video games and unschooling