Schuyler: Often because she's being flirted with, I think
Kirby: Bleh, we just might be at the death of my computer for the time being,. (Sorry, multi tasking at the moment.)
Schuyler: It usually stops the flirtation
JillP: I don't see much flirting on this game compared to other games.
Zamozo: Zoe played A LOT with a female toon - and assumed the player was female as well. I played with them some
and then one day the other player whispered me that they had a problem...
turned out the player was a male and felt bad for misleading Zoe to think he was female -- he was worried she would be
upset but he wanted to come clean
it was kind of weird
JillP: why was that weird?
kellitraas: we know quite a few female toons who are guys
SandraDodd: Was she upset?
Zamozo: I coached him to confess to her while I was on and told him she wouldn't be upset
JillP: I play guy toons and girl toons.
Zamozo: she wasn't upset
RVB:Sometimes, more information comes out about players, like a dad who went afk to go to look after his kids. So
even if people don't tell their ages, their circumstances "out" them. When Michelle plays with Ventrillo, people can tell
she's not an adult.
Zamozo: it was weird that he was so worried about it
SandraDodd: But it was kindly, it seems.
Zamozo: yes, it did seem kindly
SandraDodd: He didn't know, maybe, if she would consider him a pervert.
WendyW: My son loves to make new characters. He loves the mixing of class and character and likes to repeat the same
quests. He's 11 and likes to quest with us (hubby and I), but mostly revels in the new alts
Zamozo: it helped reinforce the idea that we never really know who we're playing with -- unless we really know them
katherand: LOL.... not game related but I was mod in a forum once where the forum female owner said "he" was coming
clean and admitting to being male. ..;-) I thought it weird.
Zamozo: she reassured him that his gender made no difference to her -- that she'd made male toons before too
SandraDodd: In a way it doesn't matter who you're playing with
So it's possible to play without any role playing angle whatsoever?
kellitraas: right that's what my girls say for roleplaying, they don't mind
SandraDodd: Like people choose a character just for practicality's sake without any emotional investment?
Zamozo: no, it doesn't matter -- although my suspicious nature had me wondering if this was some convoluted ploy to
gain even more trust -- to what end I don't know but that's my paranoia sometimes
Kirby: Yes Mom, often there are people who will roll a brand new character just to play a different role in the game
(The healer, or a spell caster for damage for example)
kellitraas: yep, Alec picked a dwarf because of increase damage with a gun, the rest of us liked the way our characters
Kirby: But it is also to play the same game (Questing, clearning dungeons) but from a different angle almost.
SandraDodd: Do you guys mind if I ask questions that will help me and other non-players be able to talk about it outside
to other unschoolers? I'm interested in "real-time writing," which doesn't really exist in school but does online and in
JillP: Go ahead.
Zamozo: sometimes Zoe will say in a face-to-face conversation, "btw Dad..."
SandraDodd: When people learn to read traditionally, it's with "graded readers" where the stories aren't really about
anything. But reading in a game is very different. It's for a real purpose.
And when someone writes, there is an immediate effect
Schuyler: Linnaea likes to write on-line, and her writing is abbreviated, she uses a lot of acronyms.
There isn't a lot of concern with the packaging, but the substance is important.
Being funny is important.
Commenting is important.
SandraDodd: There's a social skill, "funny is important."
Schuyler: Saying lol to a joke, or shrug
Zamozo: yes, I think that real purpose and immediate effect hastened Zoe's skill development and how!
SandraDodd: I saved a college paper on which a professor had written, "Funny, but good."
Schuyler: That's funny and good.
RVB:Michelle says her reading and writing have improved a lot since she started playing. She types faster than I do, too.
I think her sense of humor has improved, also!
Schuyler: Social seems to be a big part of the communication.
It doesn't appeal nearly in the same way to Simon
Zamozo: Same for Zach - doesn't care so much about the social side -- IRL, he's pretty introverted
JillP: the writing is important because in the game, that's your way of communicating mainly.
Schuyler: He prefers Halo where he is talking, too, to WoW where he has to write, our computer connection isn't good
enough for on-line chat
JillP: There are a few voice options.
SandraDodd: What things have you learned besides reading, writing and social interaction skills and learning?
Mapping is really important.
Guest29: math, economics
Schuyler: Memory, references, priorities, i.e. do a bunch of quests in an area before turning them in or turn them all in
one at a go.
Schuyler: math, definitely math,
SandraDodd: real plants or the concept of plant lore?
Schuyler: how things are made
Zamozo: Reading comprehension -- pulling out of the quest descriptions what you need to do. Zoe struggled with that at
first - I would read the quest with her and then distill it to the important information
Schuyler: the concept of plant lore
the ideas of construction, of making something
kellitraas: more about the computer, what it takes for it to run the game smoothly
Schuyler: The ideas apply to the rest of life
JillP: Organizing amount of things you can carry, what's important to keep or throw away.
SandraDodd: logistics, ergonomics, management?
RVB:How to organize a group with the right talents required.
WendyW (Guest29): indirect interaction with a group, example of guild bank and group money
JillP: But it's also fun to see a group without the right talents perform...
JillP: We did zul'Farrak with 2 priests and 3 warlock (all cloth wearers) and had the best time ever!!!
Schuyler: Asking for help
RVB:Working with what you have.
Zamozo: random acts of kindness -- buffing passersby
katherand: did we mention banking?
SandraDodd: The other chat involved researching from other sites, too. It seems to me if someone can use the internet
for researching one thing, they could easily apply it to any other projects or questions or needs.
RVB:Michelle researches Japanese for toon names.
Schuyler: To google something means far more than to look it up in the dictionary in our house.
katherand: survival needs; practical stuff
Zamozo: art inspiration - Zoe wants to draw toons on her computer
RVB:Michelle makes clay toons of her guildies.
JillP: All of this stuff is applicable to any other projects, needs.
WendyW (Guest29): signing off to eat lunch w/ the family. Thanks for hosting this. I'll look forward to reading the rest
of the conversation.
Schuyler: And even if it isn't it's darned fun
SandraDodd: They're skills kids rarely get in school, too. Most social stuff is criticized.
JillP: Sometimes even in the game WoW is criticized.
Schuyler: But if the social stuff isn't present, if they have a hard time with socializing, they are also criticized.
JillP: Did anyone mention humor up above? it's so fun to play this game and laugh with others.
Well that's just danged or darned fun anywhere.
SandraDodd: Holly says within Halo people would insult each other for not having a life outside of Halo.
Schuyler: Wow is a wonderful venue for working on those kinds of skills. They build up without the same kinds of costs
that you get in practicing during recess.
Zamozo: We had so much fun early on - several of us gathered our toons in one place and then /dance to iTunes -
kellitraas: yes, just recently people were criticizing others who got to 80 too quickly...
they thought those people needed to get out and get a life, and I said it was pretty funny that they were saying that and
here they were on the game ..:-)
JillP: I've heard people call WoW world of warcrack. I think it's the same as a teacher covering the classroom window so
kids wouldn't look outside and daydream, while she teaches weather from a book.
RVB:It seems a pretty common thing. People are told they shouldn't like it so much. That message is everywhere.
Schuyler: It's a funny thing. Simon doesn't like WoW. He has totally free access to the game, no pressure, nothing, It just
isn't his kettle of fish. Linnaea really has liked it, although will go ages without playing. Maybe it's genetic (wink)
I really enjoy it, though.
Although I get frustrated starting new characters. And other things are more interesting, often.
JillP: I really enjoy it too, and sometimes I wonder why I like it so much.
kellitraas: I've wondered the same thing Jill
Zamozo: same here - I enjoy it and often long to play but can only sit and play for an hour or two then I grow weary of it
time flies while I'm playing though
JillP: Is it because I now see it in a different light, than wasting time? or that I didn't grow up with atari games?
Schuyler: It's the subliminal messages from the graveyard
Isn't that where they are supposed to be?
Zamozo: I didn't know about supposed subliminal messages
JillP: I think you're right Schuyler, and I'm not believing those messages anymore. Was I brain washed?
RVB:I play sporadically, but I love that Michelle likes to tell me about everything that's happening.with her toons. I am
fascinated by her immersion in the game and all the things she's enjoying (or not) about it.
SandraDodd: Maybe your priorities in life are different, and you're no longer counting hours and charting progress
JillP: and I'm now wringing out my brain? and it's freeing and wonderful.
SandraDodd: (if you ever really were, even if just in case the voices in your head wanted to see your accounting.)
Schuyler: You'd think if you died less you wouldn't want to play so much.
katherand: subliminal messages are supposed to be from the backmasking on rock and roll songs. hehe
Schuyler: I seem to prefer the game when I die less.
I play very differently to Linnaea
Zamozo: "chivalrous your money?"
RVB:I've noticed that even when I play as badly as I do, the time just flies. I see how really knowing and enjoying what
you are doing can take up a lot of time.
Schuyler: I like to start quests and finish them
I like the linear aspects of the game
Zamozo: me too
JillP: I'm so attracted to the healing types, I die often. And it's a GREAT moment when my cloth wearing priest out
smarts a plate wearing Paladin!!!!
Schuyler: Linnaea likes to wander and explore and to buy things on auction and to hang out
She likes to play with other people more.
I like to start something and finish something and move on to the next thing.
kellitraas: Alec told me I would level quicker if I was more linear , lol, I am so not linear
so it really does attract all types of people
as we've been saying
JillP: I've not thought of this game as linear, because there's so much to do...a quest, then I need to buy something from
the auction house, oh yeah, and then I need to work on my engineering.
SandraDodd: What kind of engineering is there? What would you be making or setting up?
kellitraas: and the world is so huge so if someone gets bored with one area you can go somewhere else
Schuyler: I'm often playing to level Simon's or Linnaea's character to a certain level
That may make my approach more quest driven
JillP: Then I go gather materials because I want to make all my friends discombobulator rays!
kellitraas: Alec made a helicopter with engineering
JillP: I send those to my friends on their real life birthdays, that or 100 gold.
Schuyler: I want to be your friend on WoW.
Linnaea still remembers you as the deliverer of pets
kellitraas: and now you can make a chopper/motorcycle
Schuyler: That is your renown in our house
JillP: That was fun.
Zamozo: I'm pretty quest driven too - not so much exploring except to open up my maps. I played for a long time before
I chose a profession. Not so much into that aspect except in how it can help my character.
JillP: Ah sweet.
Zamozo: Zach plays to experience every aspect he can -- that's how he approaches all his video games - do and see
Schuyler: It was sweet. I really enjoyed playing in the Horde
JillP: with engineering you can make gadgets to blow up doors or enemies, or turn them into funny things. or ridable
RVB:Oh, yeah. Professions. It's a way to try out jobs! Not that all of them would be as useful irl, but still....
kellitraas: gathering all the materials for making things whether it's engineering or tailoring or what have you takes quite a
bit of organizational skills
SandraDodd: I think it could be useful, RVB--for kids to experiment with investing a lot of time and learning into
something and either stick with it or change.
WAY cheaper than paying off student loans!
JillP: I know a kid who dreams about making the WoW engineering items in real life. and makes little toys of the items
to play with.
kellitraas: I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how much cloth I needed for my carpet, Alec helped me out a lot
there, his linear thinking helped me
SandraDodd: What about the expense of the game? If someone were to start cold, how much would it cost to buy the
game and subscribe (?) and buy a computer powerful enough to play it?
JillP: I'm saving gold and materials to make a mechano-hog now, but I have a feeling I'm going to give it to Luke's
character! Luckily he'll be able to give me a ride!
Schuyler: I can play it on our old, 6 years old, computer
Oh, 7 years old
I don't know how much computers cost in the U.S.
Zamozo: Zach has an old PC but prefers to play on my iMac -- better graphics by far.
$15/mo per account
RVB:Gotta go! It's been fun. Robin B. (RVB)
SandraDodd: It's more a hypothetical question, because people talk about the expense
Schuyler: The monthly fee is £8.99 a month
JillP: $600+ for comp, $20 - 80 for game
katherand: I want to get one of those cheap eMacs for Karl... think it'd play on that?
Zamozo: plus expansion
JillP: after the first month, there is a montly fee of $15
SandraDodd: Other hobbies are way more expensive.
Schuyler: Swimming lessons cost more
JillP: Plenty of our guild people are computer guys, and they talk about this being a hobby and how to keep your
computer clean of viruses and such, and that they'll help anyone if they need it.
Zamozo: A friend is contemplating buying 2 more computers so both her kids can play at the same time and she still has
a computer to access.
SandraDodd: Keith and Marty are in Arizona (probably on their way home), where they've been in armor, and rain, and
needed to actually eat and sleep, and are pulling a trailer loaded with stuff. They can learn and do many of the same kinds
of things you can do in
but they could also get physically injured
Schuyler: We have 3 plus David's work computer
JillP: and they give ideas of what to invest in, what helps, etc.
SandraDodd: and I'll have to do a lot of laundry.
And they'll have to repair their armor, and maybe set the tents up to dry, and and and and
katherand: also is there a way to start with WoW for free?
Zamozo: We can WoW all day in our PJ's if we want
Schuyler: Right, WoW isn't a laundry making game.
SandraDodd: Nor a need-knee-surgery game
Schuyler: You can download a 10 day trial
Kirby: It was fun! I've got to get ready for work. See you later everyone! (And do a load of laundry, yikes!)
JillP: We have to repair armor too...I had to pay over 6 gold the other day! for a priest!!!
SandraDodd: Bye, Kirby!
Kirby: I love you too mom. <3
Zamozo: A friend can recommend it to you -- then if you purchase an account after your trial period - they'll get a free
JillP: Ah, that's what Addi types to me in the game!
Zamozo: Oh yeah, lots of love chat xchanged between Zoe and me when we're both playing.
JillP: Yeah, and I get mail with gold and sweet notes, and all.
SandraDodd: And if Jill cobbles together a vehicle, she doesn't actually have to stay awake for 600 miles and stop for
I want to encourage Keith to start playing WoW. ..:-)
katherand: a family that plays WoW together stays together... ..;-) :0
JillP: Yeah, and I get to play with Luke and excitedly cheer each other on to go here or there, and let's get that enemy, wait
stop for that titanium vein, will you?
Schuyler: What about a family that plays Halo together?
Zamozo: sometimes the kids and I have long conversations that are practically meaningless to dh, they want him to play
but he resists
katherand: A family that Halos together is angelic
Schuyler: It takes a lot of time WoW
Drat and me an atheist
JillP: my hubby couldn't get into it, just wasn't his cup of tea.
SandraDodd: Hey, are there religions developing along with any of this RPG business? Does the lore of WoW include
beliefs or icons?
Schuyler: David made a character, but it was more time than he had.
katherand: This is RPG Sandra... you could pretend.
Zamozo: Rick has time - but prefers to spend it chillaxin in front of the TV
I don't blame him
SandraDodd: I don't mean real religion to bring out of the game, but whether there were shrines or deities of any sort
katherand: Yes Sandra. There are religions... Wicca for one.
SandraDodd: for different groups
Zamozo: oh yeah
JillP: I've not seen religions, but there are clans and leaders that others follow.
SandraDodd: Inside the game?
JillP: and alliances that the different races make with each other.
katherand: Nevermind... I"m thinking of another game I think.
SandraDodd: So there are cult-of-personality situations?
JillP: Ah what about Scarlet Monastery?
SandraDodd: Or hooking up with successful guilds?
Zamozo: I can't quote any of it - but I know there have been quests where certain shrines needed to be visited etc.
SandraDodd: (I want to know later, katherand)
Okay, I was just curious.
katherand: I'm trying to remember the name of it.
JillP: The Bloodelves follow Illidan for a long time, but he's a bad guy now, and ruined their sunwell, which they need for
there arcane energy, without it they die.
SandraDodd: Because when a game or situation keeps growing and becoming an alternate world, sometimes it develops
other aspects of "a world"
Zamozo: I don't follow the lore much -- there's just so much to take in and I haven't been playing all that long so I'm still
JillP: There are books you can read throughout the game, and some of them tell you lore, others are like....
A Steamy Romance Novel.
Zamozo: I tend to click through the story that is told at the beginning of a new character creation
JillP: and a cookbook. How to Cook Man.
SandraDodd: Like fan fiction?
Zamozo: books in the game?
SandraDodd: wait... books throughout the game meaning the books exist within the program?
JillP: no, in game quips and info.
yes, the books exisit in the game,
Zamozo: I remember I was on a quest to gather chapters to a manual -- but I didn't read it, never finished that quest
JillP: sometimes as something you can take and carry , others just to leave there and read
Yeah, Chris those are awful quests.
I never do those.
Zamozo: Zach told me not to bother
SandraDodd: Harvest Moon has a diary (it's how you save the game) and in Game Cube there were books that you could
read about your animals and about selling ducks or chickens, Holly says.
In Morrowwind, there are books on bookshelves, and when you open them they have information.
Zamozo: I've seen a book on the ground and peeked at it but moved on
Schuyler: In Fallout 3 there are books that up your stats.
SandraDodd: Holly says there are recipe books in Harvest Moon, too
JillP: I've started to read them now, because I want to know the lore of the game.
I think these is a book or 2 that you can carry (off hand) in the game that ups your stats.
for the wand bearers.
Zamozo: oh, i'm a priest
JillP: Me too.
SandraDodd: (Wondering partly if there's a book-worship aspect! ..:-) )
JillP: Not really.
JillP: it's usually in a library, and it's part of a quest .
SandraDodd: Within the game, how to people learn to play? By doing, but can they just ask help of people inside the
game? Is that okay?
JillP: or humor. like the How to cook Man, that drops from the ogres.
Zamozo: yes, I think willing helpers hang out around the starting areas sometimes
JillP: A quest will pop up from the quest givers.
Schuyler: By playing, you can ask others, but the starting quests are fairly easy to find and do.
Zamozo: They're kind of leading quests
JillP: People do ask for help, but if they ask too much, you can tell they are just not reading quests and it gets to be a pain
for other players.
Zamozo: to learn the basic skills
Schuyler: That said, I've known someone who plays without much parental help and he has been much slower to get
through the beginning stuff than Simon or Linnaea with my help.
Zamozo: I know that Zach was a big help to Zoe early on but now she's surpassed him -- she helps him and they both
SandraDodd: I'm guessing it's hard to share this enthusiasm with some people who ask what you do with your kids or
how they learn, if the most they can understand is "we play WoW."
Schuyler: Other players are really important, but you can a get a huge amount of information from the internet.
Zamozo: I have a friend who sits by her kids' side and does the reading and typing for them -- but they're WAY more
advanced in the game than I am
JillP: This game is not intuitive, if you can't read the quests.
SandraDodd: (I don't understand half of what's gone by here, and I even want to understand it.)
JillP: There is an add-on to play the game without reading.
Schuyler: I think there may be a cultural illiteracy about MMORPGs for some people
Zamozo: digital immigrants?
SandraDodd: I've done a lot of encouragement and feeding and maintenance and paid for some games and accounts, but I
haven't touched the game. Yet Kirby lives a Blizzard-and-WoW life.
JillP: omg, pwn noob.
Zamozo: Jill - "pwn?"
Schuyler: I love the word pwn.
JillP: a missspelling of the word "own" and means I got you, I beat you. something like that.
Schuyler: Simon pwns people a lot, not in the game, just as a fun word to say
socal77: It is a contraction of power and owned
SandraDodd: I'm asking Holly and she's saying it's like to own, to pone someone, to pone them in the face
Schuyler: Simon and Linnaea say pone
I say pwn, like pawn without the a
JillP: I say it like Simon and Linnaea.
SandraDodd: Holly says it all started with typos
Zamozo: Sandra - you should play
I'd help you
socal77: but it is pronounced powned
JillP: I agree with Holly.
Schuyler: I've looked it up, it has more than one official pronounciation
I like the feel of pwn
Zamozo: so would you say, "I pwn you?"
socal77: I wasn't rying to be a stickler, just repeat what Drew has said in the past
SandraDodd: Holly says it's own with a p so it's like pone
JillP: you can, Chris , but people just yell pwnd.
socal77: yes that is what I meant , holly is right
JillP: heh heh.
SandraDodd: What hasn't been said? That list of math, engineering and all was good and it will go on a page where
people can find it.
What else? history? (the concept of history/lore, and the unfolding of a game as it gets bigger)
This "northrend" map.
Schuyler: I would totally say I pwn you
JillP: Sandra, you asked a question earlier, i'm trying to find it....did you geat an answer?
SandraDodd: It's like a new world
Jill, I have no idea.
Zamozo: I dunno if this is important but for us, WoW has been a nice equalizer
Zamozo: Zoe is 6-1/2 years younger than Zach and has always fretted about not being able to do things as well ash im
Schuyler: WoW takes less skill than games like Halo do. Or a different kind of skill. Halo is about so much going on at
once and it's hard to deal with, like dueling a rogue.
JillP: Yes. Luke and I play with our 7 year old friend.
Zamozo: and now, she can keep up and do better than him and me -- makes her feel proud I think
Schuyler: I think WoW is much more accessible
JillP: She used her dad’s character and would protect me when I was leveling.
SandraDodd: I have a lot of respect for Holly's Brett, hearing him make peace among the people in the guild he's in.
They do 25-man raids a few times a week. They have officers.
Meetings of officers.
Social problems, politics, hurt feelings.
JillP: Yep. that takes a lot of work and leadership
SandraDodd: And I overhear him being calm and encouraging
Zamozo: they're using voice chat
JillP: That's awesome, we have some people like that in our guild.
SandraDodd: Most people don't get a chance to do that unless they're military officers or business managers
They do use headsets, yes
JillP: FTW Brett, playing on the comp with My pretty ponies!
FTW = for the win!
SandraDodd: When I hear him be so compassionate and capable, I'm impressed with skills I don't get to see in him other
that photo is here, for others who might've missed it:
Brett's computer is in the room where Holly's My Little Ponies are.
JillP: That's really cool, Sandra, and about equalizing, I've seen Luke (10) do those same things.
although not leading guild meetings..
JillP: Thanks again, Sandra. and Bye All, need to take Addi to rollerskating now.
Guest6: I guess i missed most of the chat ..:-(
SandraDodd: I know from the SCA the division between people who say "it's only a game" and others who see it as a
place with real feelings, real interactions and feelings.
You missed it all, pretty much, 6; sorry
Schuyler: Bye Jill
Guest6: oh well next time I stick myself a note up so a remember quicker