diana jenner

The best assessment of Dr. Phil was heard at the conference: Dr. Phil is
fixing the people who were raised the way he advocates.

<bg> diana
----- Original Message -----
> In a message dated 9/25/2004 5:02:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> enchanteddreams@... writes:
>
> >>>The other night we watched that Dr Phil family show that was on at
> night. Now, I never liked Dr Phil, but we watched it because I
> wanted to hear what he was going to say about different issues in
> the family. I was on the polar opposite side of most of the things
> he had to say, ...
>
> Crystal<<
> *******************
> My mom likes Dr. Phil and told me to watch the show, but I couldn't find
it.
> I guess I didn't miss much!
>
> Nancy B.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 9-3-2004

Angela S

The best assessment of Dr. Phil was heard at the conference: Dr. Phil is
fixing the people who were raised the way he advocates.





-------------------------------

LOL! I don't like Dr. Phil's advice with regards to parenting either,
although I like a lot of the other stuff he has to say .(I actually wrote
to him last year and suggested some books to him on compassionate
parenting.) But last week as I watched one of his programs, I began to
wonder if he gives the advice he gives because the parents that come on his
show have so little parenting skills, that having them pick their battles
and be consistent, which is what he often advises, is a huge improvement
in parenting for them and it is tangible advice. Some of the parent's that
end up on that show couldn't even begin to incorporate compassion into their
parenting. They don't even have the basic skills down.



I still think he is doing a disservice by only advocating punitive parenting
and not offering more compassionate alternatives but I think I understand
where he is coming from more now than before.



I am not sure if that made sense, but I can't seem to find a way to say it
any better.



Angela ~ Maine

Game-enthusiast@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi all,

I did not watch the show on purpose. Which is normal for me, LOL, but one
our friends was on that particular show. I guess he was on there because his
stepdaughter has trouble with thunderstorms? I didn't watch because I did not
want to see them being embarassed on tv. Hopefully they weren't, but like I
said, I don't care for the show. I am curious, those of you who saw it, what
your response was to him, his wife and stepdaughter and if you think Dr. Phil's
advice was at all helpful?

Thanks!

Heather - Wisconsin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sondra Carr

This is so funny - so many times I find that I read topics here and think -
wow - I felt like that and when I talked about it with other people they had
no clue where I was coming from. In unschooling forums I'm finding all these
people more similar to me. I never liked Dr. Phil - especially the parenting
stuff - it was so counter-intuitive to my experience as a mother and tried
to fit every child into a strict framework. I also was a little more lenient
in my judgment of his handling of adults but it still leaves an icky
feeling. Not quite the violent soul-vomitting that I experience when I am
caught in the car with a devotee of Dr. Laura but a little hint of the same
source.

Wouldn't it be great to have a really radical unschooler giving advice on
national TV? I'll bet the ratings would be through the roof as all the
normal American families watched in horror as children were allowed to be
themselves.



Sondra











-----Original Message-----
From: Angela S [mailto:game-enthusiast@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Change and growth/Dr.Phil



The best assessment of Dr. Phil was heard at the conference: Dr. Phil is
fixing the people who were raised the way he advocates.





-------------------------------

LOL! I don't like Dr. Phil's advice with regards to parenting either,
although I like a lot of the other stuff he has to say .(I actually wrote
to him last year and suggested some books to him on compassionate
parenting.) But last week as I watched one of his programs, I began to
wonder if he gives the advice he gives because the parents that come on his
show have so little parenting skills, that having them pick their battles
and be consistent, which is what he often advises, is a huge improvement
in parenting for them and it is tangible advice. Some of the parent's that
end up on that show couldn't even begin to incorporate compassion into their
parenting. They don't even have the basic skills down.



I still think he is doing a disservice by only advocating punitive parenting
and not offering more compassionate alternatives but I think I understand
where he is coming from more now than before.



I am not sure if that made sense, but I can't seem to find a way to say it
any better.



Angela ~ Maine

Game-enthusiast@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com







Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129cl5vgp/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=gr
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1096561038/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:/compa
nion.yahoo.com> click here



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=558726309>



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscrib
e>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Adams

Angela writes:
>I still think he is doing a disservice by only advocating punitive parenting
>and not offering more compassionate alternatives but I think I understand
>where he is coming from more now than before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I do like him though I find I disagree at times. I think his advice takes a middle road, doesn't go as far as I wish it would but is probably new and unfamiliar to much of his audience. He's stated over and over that he will not advocate spanking, that children's feeling are to be considered important and that modeling behaviour for kids is very important. He's also been reasonable on topics I don't agree with him on like co-sleeping. On one episode he stated his opinion of co-sleeping (against) but brought up that many pediatricians think it's a very healthy thing to do (he mentioned Dr. Sears) and provided pro-cosleeping links on his website. He's got some good ideas about kids and sex education (talk about it early and often) as well that I'm betting are new to many viewers.
He's rarely got parenting advice that's new to me or that I want to use but I think he's a welcome voice and bridge to gentler ideas about raising kids. If he WERE as radical as most of us, I'm betting he wouldn't be as popular and many of those parents who practice hard and controling parenting would simply dismiss him rather than listen. He's not where we are but I'm betting he'll be responsible for helping more than a few parents journey over to our side of the parenting issue.

Dawn (in NS)






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Another great Reality TV idea. You are a creative force.

Pat--- In [email protected], "Sondra Carr"
<sondracarr@u...> wrote:
> This is so funny - so many times I find that I read topics here and
think -
> wow - I felt like that and when I talked about it with other people
they had
> no clue where I was coming from. In unschooling forums I'm finding
all these
> people more similar to me. I never liked Dr. Phil - especially the
parenting
> stuff - it was so counter-intuitive to my experience as a mother
and tried
> to fit every child into a strict framework. I also was a little
more lenient
> in my judgment of his handling of adults but it still leaves an icky
> feeling. Not quite the violent soul-vomitting that I experience
when I am
> caught in the car with a devotee of Dr. Laura but a little hint of
the same
> source.
>
> Wouldn't it be great to have a really radical unschooler giving
advice on
> national TV? I'll bet the ratings would be through the roof as all
the
> normal American families watched in horror as children were allowed
to be
> themselves.
>
>
>
> Sondra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Angela S [mailto:game-enthusiast@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:17 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Change and growth/Dr.Phil
>
>
>
> The best assessment of Dr. Phil was heard at the conference: Dr.
Phil is
> fixing the people who were raised the way he advocates.
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> LOL! I don't like Dr. Phil's advice with regards to parenting
either,
> although I like a lot of the other stuff he has to say .(I
actually wrote
> to him last year and suggested some books to him on compassionate
> parenting.) But last week as I watched one of his programs, I
began to
> wonder if he gives the advice he gives because the parents that
come on his
> show have so little parenting skills, that having them pick their
battles
> and be consistent, which is what he often advises, is a huge
improvement
> in parenting for them and it is tangible advice. Some of the
parent's that
> end up on that show couldn't even begin to incorporate compassion
into their
> parenting. They don't even have the basic skills down.
>
>
>
> I still think he is doing a disservice by only advocating punitive
parenting
> and not offering more compassionate alternatives but I think I
understand
> where he is coming from more now than before.
>
>
>
> I am not sure if that made sense, but I can't seem to find a way to
say it
> any better.
>
>
>
> Angela ~ Maine
>
> Game-enthusiast@a...
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129cl5vgp/M=295196.4901138.6071305.300117
6/D=gr
>
oups/S=1705081972:HM/EXP=1096561038/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http:
/compa
> nion.yahoo.com> click here
>
>
>
> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=groups/S=
> :HM/A=2128215/rand=558726309>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?
subject=Unsubscrib
> e>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/29/04 10:17:31 AM, game-enthusiast@... writes:

<< Some of the parent's that
end up on that show couldn't even begin to incorporate compassion into their
parenting. They don't even have the basic skills down.
>>

In Howard Gardner terminology, they just may not have much interpersonal
intelligence. When people don't have the talent to be creative, or to just
know/see/feel what will work, I guess rules are better than nothing.

Sandra

Nisha

--- In [email protected], "Sondra Carr"
<sondracarr@u...> wrote:
I never liked Dr. Phil - especially the parenting stuff - it was so
counter-intuitive to my experience as a mother and tried to fit every
child into a strict framework.


one thing I remember him saying about how he was raised was that his
mother NEVER ever yelled, and she never ever hit them for doing
things wrong. And every night when she tucked them in, she would tell
them how lucky she felt to be their mom. Evidently he and his wife
did that with their sons as well.
I'm not a fan, but I thought it was interesting that he so often
suggests doing differently than he was evidently raised. but then I
think most of us go in a different direction from the way we were
raised. I know I have.
nisha

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/2004 5:26:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
nishamartin@... writes:

but I thought it was interesting that he so often
suggests doing differently than he was evidently raised. but then I
think most of us go in a different direction from the way we were
raised. I know I have.<<<<

It was all that 'education'. <g>

I think a lot of people do in a different direction. But I've never heard of
someone raised in kindness and freedom who turned out to be a mean
prison-guard-type-parent.

He could be inventing that childhood.

~Kelly







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Crystal

> He could be inventing that childhood.
>
> ~Kelly
>

I doubt it. To be fair, I'm not a big TV watcher and I've only
watched Dr Phil's show maybe twice, once when he did a show on
couples and had them attend a week-long thingy and this one on
parenting. He did ok with the couples. He got them talking. From
what I saw of his show, he asks them the problem, then finds the
person who's to blame for the problem, then yells at them to either
shape up or ship out. But, that's adults who are choosing to work
together to solve their problems.

Kids don't have that choice. They are stuck with the rules of the
parents usually without discussion. Dr Phil told one mother to take
90% of all her daughter's toys away and let her know the other 10
could also go if she didn't behave. He told another mother to take
the TV away so her son would go out and play. She had complained
that he watched 9 hours of TV a day. He was about 4. The yard was
huge, ugly, fenced-in, in the direct sun, patches of grass and lots
of trucks. There was no shade, no swings or slides, and no fun.
Plus, he didn't ask her if she offered to play with him. Maybe she
just opened the back door and said to go out to play. Does the mom
ask the boy to help her bake? We don't know because he didn't ask
her. Dr Phil just told her to take away the TV and the problem
would go away. Maybe she just sat in the house all day. Maybe she
modeled TV watching. Dr Phil gave really bad advice, in my
opinion. He could have told her to make the yard more inviting to
him. He could have told her to go out and plant a vegetable garden
with him since the yard had so much direct sun. Not just take away
the one thing he likes and leave him with only the yucky yard. He
didn't seem to be changing anyone's childhood from what I saw.

Crystal

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/2004 9:09:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
crystal.pina@... writes:

He could be inventing that childhood.
>
> ~Kelly



His own childhood.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<Kids don't have that choice. They are stuck with the rules of the
parents usually without discussion. >>>>

Regardless of whether his recommendations are *better* than spanking, they
are nowhere close to as respectful of children and their needs as
Unschoolers try to be. His oft repeated paradigm is "Children NEED rules!",
"Children MUST HAVE structure", "Parents MUST take control of their
children". When kids or teens have some kind of problem his answer is always
a one-size-fits-all more restrictions and control approach, OR ELSE. He is
also a vigorous advocate of "Toilet Train Your Child in One Day"
manipulations.

Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 9/28/2004