Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Visitor's food restrictions (long)
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 12:30:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:
My dilemma is where does one draw the line between the culture and practice
of freedom in our own homes, and any responsibility/obligation to other
parents to enforce *their* rules about food [or TV, or video games] with
young visitors to our homes. I'm talking about in the other parent's
absence.<<<<
I struggle with this too, as most (all of?) the children that visit are
restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house. Mostly
it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through this, not to
mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and needy), and at
myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~*
Jayn offers her wide selection of toys up freely, only to have to negotiate
to keep using the one little doll in her hand, since Renee always seems to
instantly want some part of whatever toy Jayn has chosen.<<<<
My take on this is maybe so "out there"---but *I* think it's due the forced
"sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated same-age
children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a bigger one
when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child WILL have trouble
sharing.
Our German neighbor (17 at the time) would inSIST that Cameron share. He was
TWO! I'd insist that he didn't have to share if he didn't want to. She
announced that, with no siblings, he would surely be a selfish child if I didn't
start making him share *now*. This was pre-unschooling----by about 10-11
years. I responded that he would be ready to share when he was ready to share; two
year olds aren't *meant* to share. She just shook her head.
Cameron is incredibly generous with his time and money and things.
It'll be interesting to hear how she handles things with her new baby in
October. <g>
I>>>>Renee had the effrontery to tell my dh that he “could share” his
special
Italian sodas, even when there was a multitude of other cold juice and pop
choices available and offered. Jayn and I don’t even snake his special sodas
from him – not *very* often. She kept saying “why” after being told “no,
those are James’ sodas” probably four or five times. REALLY tiresome.<<<<
My guess is that she's been told this over and over and over and MADE to
share even when she doesn't want to.
My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No M&M's
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.
Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the whining
and begging and snooping for stuff here. I was better/calmer/more generous
with Cameron's friends----but they didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much
time here as all these homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.
slim) watches every mouthful, and in a random seeming manner will suddenly
decide that his petite slim dd (4.5) has had enough fries (from Jayn’s plate
freely shared) and must now eat some grapes. Meanwhile, Jayn asks for a
second helping of fries and we say “sure!” and flag down the waiter. Big sad
eyes watching Jayn eat, and little fingers slowly sliding across the table
to surreptitiously grab a fry to gobble. Was I supposed to stop her
hand????<<<<<
Bummer. We have this with cousins and their aunts. We just don't get
together anymore. Ben & I leave his family get-togethers so frustrated amd angry.
It's just not worth it anymore.
Force-feeding children----crazy.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dezigna@... writes:
My dilemma is where does one draw the line between the culture and practice
of freedom in our own homes, and any responsibility/obligation to other
parents to enforce *their* rules about food [or TV, or video games] with
young visitors to our homes. I'm talking about in the other parent's
absence.<<<<
I struggle with this too, as most (all of?) the children that visit are
restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house. Mostly
it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through this, not to
mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and needy), and at
myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~*
>>>>> but it seems like she wantsstuff and food only *because* someone else has it.
Jayn offers her wide selection of toys up freely, only to have to negotiate
to keep using the one little doll in her hand, since Renee always seems to
instantly want some part of whatever toy Jayn has chosen.<<<<
My take on this is maybe so "out there"---but *I* think it's due the forced
"sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated same-age
children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a bigger one
when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child WILL have trouble
sharing.
Our German neighbor (17 at the time) would inSIST that Cameron share. He was
TWO! I'd insist that he didn't have to share if he didn't want to. She
announced that, with no siblings, he would surely be a selfish child if I didn't
start making him share *now*. This was pre-unschooling----by about 10-11
years. I responded that he would be ready to share when he was ready to share; two
year olds aren't *meant* to share. She just shook her head.
Cameron is incredibly generous with his time and money and things.
It'll be interesting to hear how she handles things with her new baby in
October. <g>
I>>>>Renee had the effrontery to tell my dh that he “could share” his
special
Italian sodas, even when there was a multitude of other cold juice and pop
choices available and offered. Jayn and I don’t even snake his special sodas
from him – not *very* often. She kept saying “why” after being told “no,
those are James’ sodas” probably four or five times. REALLY tiresome.<<<<
My guess is that she's been told this over and over and over and MADE to
share even when she doesn't want to.
My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No M&M's
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.
Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the whining
and begging and snooping for stuff here. I was better/calmer/more generous
with Cameron's friends----but they didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much
time here as all these homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.
>>>>>In a related issue:In the case of another friend of Jayn’s, her father (once overweight now
slim) watches every mouthful, and in a random seeming manner will suddenly
decide that his petite slim dd (4.5) has had enough fries (from Jayn’s plate
freely shared) and must now eat some grapes. Meanwhile, Jayn asks for a
second helping of fries and we say “sure!” and flag down the waiter. Big sad
eyes watching Jayn eat, and little fingers slowly sliding across the table
to surreptitiously grab a fry to gobble. Was I supposed to stop her
hand????<<<<<
Bummer. We have this with cousins and their aunts. We just don't get
together anymore. Ben & I leave his family get-togethers so frustrated amd angry.
It's just not worth it anymore.
Force-feeding children----crazy.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SHYRLEY WILLIAMS
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
I struggle with this too, as most (all of?) the children that visit are
restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house. Mostly
it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through this, not to
mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and needy), and at
myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~*
I found people stopped sending their kids to my house because, shock horror, mine were unrestricted. The kids could play computer, watch TV, help themselves to food, talk to me etc etc. It then meant that they went home and whined that 'at shyrley's house etc etc'
Meant their parents had to explain why they had rules....
Shyrley
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I struggle with this too, as most (all of?) the children that visit are
restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house. Mostly
it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through this, not to
mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and needy), and at
myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~*
I found people stopped sending their kids to my house because, shock horror, mine were unrestricted. The kids could play computer, watch TV, help themselves to food, talk to me etc etc. It then meant that they went home and whined that 'at shyrley's house etc etc'
Meant their parents had to explain why they had rules....
Shyrley
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No M&M's
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.
Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the whining
and begging and snooping for stuff here. I was better/calmer/more generous
with Cameron's friends----but they didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much
time here as all these homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.
***************
I can relate to this. I"ve told my kids, "I love your friends, but my budget just won't allow for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week, after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2 days because friends came over and ate it all.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.
Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the whining
and begging and snooping for stuff here. I was better/calmer/more generous
with Cameron's friends----but they didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much
time here as all these homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.
***************
I can relate to this. I"ve told my kids, "I love your friends, but my budget just won't allow for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week, after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2 days because friends came over and ate it all.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
My dilemma is where does one draw the line between the culture and practice
of freedom in our own homes, and any responsibility/obligation to other
parents to enforce *their* rules about food [or TV, or video games] with
young visitors to our homes. I'm talking about in the other parent's
absence.<<<<
Prior to now, I always tried to respect the other parent's wishes, mainly because their child is at my house, and this is not my child, no matter how much I may disagree with that parent.
My kids can have their freedoms any time. I felt that it isn't going to hurt them to respect the other family just for the time that they are at our house.
And yet, its *our* house.
It is a dillemma.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of freedom in our own homes, and any responsibility/obligation to other
parents to enforce *their* rules about food [or TV, or video games] with
young visitors to our homes. I'm talking about in the other parent's
absence.<<<<
Prior to now, I always tried to respect the other parent's wishes, mainly because their child is at my house, and this is not my child, no matter how much I may disagree with that parent.
My kids can have their freedoms any time. I felt that it isn't going to hurt them to respect the other family just for the time that they are at our house.
And yet, its *our* house.
It is a dillemma.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
soggyboysmom
> Bummer. We have this with cousins and their aunts. We just don'tget
> together anymore. Ben & I leave his family get-togethers sofrustrated amd angry.
> It's just not worth it anymore.DH and I experience the same thing when we get together with my
> Force-feeding children----crazy.
>
> ~Kelly
family. Example: in early June, we drove (2 1/2 hrs) to visit my
folks for the weekend so that DS' cousins, aunts, uncles, grandma &
grandpa could celebrate his birthday with him (celebration #3 - #1
dinner out with just us the evening of his birthday #2 cake and such
with ILs the Saturday following his birthday #3 theSaturday after
that with my family - DS was loving turning 6 LOL). My sister has a
lovely house with a beautiful back yard - sand box, playscape, well
groomed lawn, vinyl-type deck (not wood). Lovely. That's where most
family gatherings occur - space for grown ups to chat, kids to play,
cool. DS was merrily running around, shoeless, having a great time.
I'd check in with him on occasion to see if he wanted me to fix him
a burger or hot dog or something or get a beverage (juice, water,
soda, milk were available). He'd pause his play on occasion for a
glass of water or something to eat and head back to playing. He was
okay, DH and I were relaxing and chatting (or trying to anyway).
Meanwhile, my bro and his wife were cajoling, threatening, bribing
their two (5 and 3) to eat their meal (which they had no say in
choosing) "eat 2 more bites of your hamburger or no more swings" was
repeated I don't know how many times. And, my SIL kept on
about "keep your shoes on" AHHHH! Why? the lawn is perfect, the
playscape is plastic, they're in and out of the sandbox and even the
deck doesn't have splinters! She pestered and pestered and they'd
get their shoes put on then go off and remove them again. Finally,
she just threw up her hands and said "fine, you never listen to me
anyway." Meanwhile, DS got hungry and came over and ate something
and sat for a minute. And later, when it cooled off toward evening,
he came over and got his sandals (I brought them along in case he
wanted them) and put them on.
DH and I just exchange glances at times like these and if we can fit
it in somehow toss out whatever tidbits we can to try to open things
up a bit. Things like "It's a lovely day to go barefoot" (as I slip
out of my sandals) or "I remember when DS was 3. We just decided
that (whatever) just wasn't a battle worth fighting over. Now DS can
choose whether to (this) or (that) or whatever and it's much more
relaxing for everyone." But then SIL has control issues to start
with. Oh well maybe some day. One can only hope.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/04 11:46:39 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No
M&M's
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out. >>
That's what I do too. I just make the house more boring, and put out "good"
snacks a couple of times while they're here.
If we know a kid doesn't watch South Park or The Simpsons at their house, we
just do other stuff. My kids can easily do without. We don't make a big deal
about it.
When kids come with lots of allergies or special diets, I ask the mom to send
some soy milk or whatever they're going to need. We have to regular vegans
(from two different otherwise-non-vegan families) and we just don't eat,
basically. <g> Or I take the kids to Wild Oats to get snacks. Or we have pizza,
and she ignores the pizza. (Both are girls.)
One African American family is altogether non-milk using, lactose intolerant.
I forget sometimes and offer the kids buttered popcorn or something else
like that. The youngest doesn't mind, as he hasn't grown fully out of milk
tolerance, so something like milk solids in cooking are fine for him. The others
just remember on their own and I put out non-cheesy stuff.
Holly and Marty are really good at remembering which families are how, when
it's not good to say "You want to watch Harry Potter?" or what.
-=-I"ve told my kids, "I love your friends, but my budget just won't allow
for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week,
after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2
days because friends came over and ate it all.-=-
One friend who used to come by asked for seconds on ice cream, and I said
sure, he could have all he wanted. He finished the carton. Ate about 1/3 of a
gallon by himself, I think. Poor guy. We just let him go. We always have at
least plain vanilla ice cream, and often three flavors, all year, all the
time. My kids only have ice cream if they really want it. It's rare. They put
in a Ben & Jerry's not far from us, and though I've suggested it a couple of
times when one says hungry or what's new or let's go somewhere, they've always
kinda shrugged and suggested something else.
Sandra
<< My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No
M&M's
in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING cool.
I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat happily, but
I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and sugar" that
goes on when I keep the "sweets" out. >>
That's what I do too. I just make the house more boring, and put out "good"
snacks a couple of times while they're here.
If we know a kid doesn't watch South Park or The Simpsons at their house, we
just do other stuff. My kids can easily do without. We don't make a big deal
about it.
When kids come with lots of allergies or special diets, I ask the mom to send
some soy milk or whatever they're going to need. We have to regular vegans
(from two different otherwise-non-vegan families) and we just don't eat,
basically. <g> Or I take the kids to Wild Oats to get snacks. Or we have pizza,
and she ignores the pizza. (Both are girls.)
One African American family is altogether non-milk using, lactose intolerant.
I forget sometimes and offer the kids buttered popcorn or something else
like that. The youngest doesn't mind, as he hasn't grown fully out of milk
tolerance, so something like milk solids in cooking are fine for him. The others
just remember on their own and I put out non-cheesy stuff.
Holly and Marty are really good at remembering which families are how, when
it's not good to say "You want to watch Harry Potter?" or what.
-=-I"ve told my kids, "I love your friends, but my budget just won't allow
for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week,
after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2
days because friends came over and ate it all.-=-
One friend who used to come by asked for seconds on ice cream, and I said
sure, he could have all he wanted. He finished the carton. Ate about 1/3 of a
gallon by himself, I think. Poor guy. We just let him go. We always have at
least plain vanilla ice cream, and often three flavors, all year, all the
time. My kids only have ice cream if they really want it. It's rare. They put
in a Ben & Jerry's not far from us, and though I've suggested it a couple of
times when one says hungry or what's new or let's go somewhere, they've always
kinda shrugged and suggested something else.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 1:56:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:
I found people stopped sending their kids to my house because, shock horror,
mine were unrestricted. The kids could play computer, watch TV, help
themselves to food, talk to me etc etc. It then meant that they went home and whined
that 'at shyrley's house etc etc'
Meant their parents had to explain why they had rules....<<<<<
Oh, One of them told her kids, "Well, Miss Kelly's just CRAZY! Her kids will
turn out to be hoodlums, and I won't allow you to be hoodlums. We have
rules, and you have to follow them." This said while smiling at me. <g>
Boy, I can't wait until they're all teens/young adults. Her's are already
sneaking, lying, and stealing---and severely punished for doing all that.
They're six and eight.
Well see!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley.williams@... writes:
I found people stopped sending their kids to my house because, shock horror,
mine were unrestricted. The kids could play computer, watch TV, help
themselves to food, talk to me etc etc. It then meant that they went home and whined
that 'at shyrley's house etc etc'
Meant their parents had to explain why they had rules....<<<<<
Oh, One of them told her kids, "Well, Miss Kelly's just CRAZY! Her kids will
turn out to be hoodlums, and I won't allow you to be hoodlums. We have
rules, and you have to follow them." This said while smiling at me. <g>
Boy, I can't wait until they're all teens/young adults. Her's are already
sneaking, lying, and stealing---and severely punished for doing all that.
They're six and eight.
Well see!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/04 12:25:57 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:
<< Boy, I can't wait until they're all teens/young adults. Her's are already
sneaking, lying, and stealing---and severely punished for doing all that.
They're six and eight. >>
Don't be surprised if she doesn't blame your bad influence. People learn
ways to blame others. They learn it at school. <BWG>
Sandra
"blame school day" here, I guess.
<< Boy, I can't wait until they're all teens/young adults. Her's are already
sneaking, lying, and stealing---and severely punished for doing all that.
They're six and eight. >>
Don't be surprised if she doesn't blame your bad influence. People learn
ways to blame others. They learn it at school. <BWG>
Sandra
"blame school day" here, I guess.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 2:35:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
debra.rossing@... writes:
But then SIL has control issues to start
with. Oh well maybe some day. One can only hope.<<<<
Or not.
We've decided ours are hopeless.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
debra.rossing@... writes:
But then SIL has control issues to start
with. Oh well maybe some day. One can only hope.<<<<
Or not.
We've decided ours are hopeless.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** Our German neighbor (17 at the time) would inSIST that Cameron share.
He was
TWO! I'd insist that he didn't have to share if he didn't want to. She
announced that, with no siblings, he would surely be a selfish child if
I didn't
start making him share *now*. This was pre-unschooling----by about 10-11
years. I responded that he would be ready to share when he was ready to
share; two
year olds aren't *meant* to share. She just shook her head.
Cameron is incredibly generous with his time and money and things.**
I agree with your approach. And I think forced sharing at an early age
would have made him less likely to share.
Betsy
He was
TWO! I'd insist that he didn't have to share if he didn't want to. She
announced that, with no siblings, he would surely be a selfish child if
I didn't
start making him share *now*. This was pre-unschooling----by about 10-11
years. I responded that he would be ready to share when he was ready to
share; two
year olds aren't *meant* to share. She just shook her head.
Cameron is incredibly generous with his time and money and things.**
I agree with your approach. And I think forced sharing at an early age
would have made him less likely to share.
Betsy
Danielle Conger
<>Kelly wrote: My take on this is maybe so "out there"---but *I* think
it's due the forced
"sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated
same-age
children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a bigger one
when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child WILL have
trouble
sharing.
Betsy wrote: And I think forced sharing at an early age would have made
him less likely to share.
=========
Not that folks are saying the above is an absolute--merely to throw in
my experience with this and point out that a household with several
young children needs to have some sharing strategies in place.
Negotiating sharing with multiple, close-in-age siblings is not easy!
Mine all seem to have different capacities to share based on their own
temperament and birth order more than anything, I think. My oldest,
Emily (7), is extremely generous and empathetic, always trying to give
her money or special toys to friends and family, though she's also quick
to snag the last cookie for herself. My middle child, Julia (5), is
generous to a fault, always giving away anything to keep the peace and
make her siblings happy, and a bigtime caretaker, always running to grab
someone's special and an icepack or a bandaid if they're hurt. My
youngest, Sam (4), is becoming much more generous as he gets older and
is becoming quite adept at sharing and asking for turns--not so quick to
pitch in and help, but that'll come in time, too.
My kids are all close in age--fewer than 17 months apart. We've always
had lots of group toys given as group gifts for holidays, which
eliminates much of the "ownership" issues, and we also have several
"specials," which are things they don't have to share like blankets and
favorite birthday/ new toys. Each birthday they each choose one
"special" gift that they don't have to share, and then share the rest.
We also live by the principle "If there's more than one, then it's your
responsibility to share"--meaning one person can't hog all the cookies,
all the blocks, all the whatever.
It's very difficult to negotiate life with several small children
without some kind of set-up for sharing or rotating, and it's also
difficult to strike a balance between respect for the person's turn and
respect for the person's age-ability to wait. To small children 5
minutes can seem like a lifetime! In our house, we've used the above
guidelines and principles; we also tend to have duplicates of lots of
things, especially the really popular items. We're lucky enough to have
4 computers for 5 people--2 adult laptops, which we'll occasionally
share ;), and two kid computers. I know Sandra's talked about having
"days" at her house where they rotate turns to call front seat, etc.
There are probably as many strategies as their are families! My point is
that I think larger families need some strategies in place, somewhere in
between "share now!" and "you can keep that as long as you want."
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
it's due the forced
"sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated
same-age
children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a bigger one
when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child WILL have
trouble
sharing.
Betsy wrote: And I think forced sharing at an early age would have made
him less likely to share.
=========
Not that folks are saying the above is an absolute--merely to throw in
my experience with this and point out that a household with several
young children needs to have some sharing strategies in place.
Negotiating sharing with multiple, close-in-age siblings is not easy!
Mine all seem to have different capacities to share based on their own
temperament and birth order more than anything, I think. My oldest,
Emily (7), is extremely generous and empathetic, always trying to give
her money or special toys to friends and family, though she's also quick
to snag the last cookie for herself. My middle child, Julia (5), is
generous to a fault, always giving away anything to keep the peace and
make her siblings happy, and a bigtime caretaker, always running to grab
someone's special and an icepack or a bandaid if they're hurt. My
youngest, Sam (4), is becoming much more generous as he gets older and
is becoming quite adept at sharing and asking for turns--not so quick to
pitch in and help, but that'll come in time, too.
My kids are all close in age--fewer than 17 months apart. We've always
had lots of group toys given as group gifts for holidays, which
eliminates much of the "ownership" issues, and we also have several
"specials," which are things they don't have to share like blankets and
favorite birthday/ new toys. Each birthday they each choose one
"special" gift that they don't have to share, and then share the rest.
We also live by the principle "If there's more than one, then it's your
responsibility to share"--meaning one person can't hog all the cookies,
all the blocks, all the whatever.
It's very difficult to negotiate life with several small children
without some kind of set-up for sharing or rotating, and it's also
difficult to strike a balance between respect for the person's turn and
respect for the person's age-ability to wait. To small children 5
minutes can seem like a lifetime! In our house, we've used the above
guidelines and principles; we also tend to have duplicates of lots of
things, especially the really popular items. We're lucky enough to have
4 computers for 5 people--2 adult laptops, which we'll occasionally
share ;), and two kid computers. I know Sandra's talked about having
"days" at her house where they rotate turns to call front seat, etc.
There are probably as many strategies as their are families! My point is
that I think larger families need some strategies in place, somewhere in
between "share now!" and "you can keep that as long as you want."
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
Laura Johnson
Many or most of my friends have major food restrictions for their kids. We don't. We try and make sure that ds eats a balance of healthy foods but don't try and pressure him. Just suggest "if you eat candy without protein or other good foods, you might now feel as well, how about this or that first". We are candy crazy, all of us and we have lots of it at our house. Most of our visitors eat only organic and almost never let their kids eat candy or even potato chips. Same with the media issue. I've had them drop them off for me to baby sit (for FREE) and tell me "please don't let them watch tv, they watch their 30 minutes already. And, no sweets, she had her sweets for the week." Ugh! It drives me crazy. And these kids are starting to constantly beg, sneak and lie about things. Then, they say, "does ds lie or sneak stuff?" no. We have lots of candy out. He asks first, and if we aren't about to eat dinner, then it's usually fine. They think we eat way too much candy and watch way too much tv. I'm glad to find a group that backs up our theory.
Laura J
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura J
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
-=-I"ve told my kids, "I love your friends, but my budget just won't allow
for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week,
after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2
days because friends came over and ate it all.-=-
One friend who used to come by asked for seconds on ice cream, and I said
sure, he could have all he wanted. He finished the carton. Ate about 1/3 of a
gallon by himself, I think. Poor guy. We just let him go. We always have at
least plain vanilla ice cream, and often three flavors, all year, all the
time. My kids only have ice cream if they really want it. It's rare. They put
in a Ben & Jerry's not far from us, and though I've suggested it a couple of
times when one says hungry or what's new or let's go somewhere, they've always
kinda shrugged and suggested something else.
Sandra
ooooo, not here! My kids fight over who gets the last spoonful. Ice cream never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some every week, but definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
for them to eat the stuff we have here". I just can''t afford it. One week,
after spending $150 on badly needed groceries, half of them were gone within 2
days because friends came over and ate it all.-=-
One friend who used to come by asked for seconds on ice cream, and I said
sure, he could have all he wanted. He finished the carton. Ate about 1/3 of a
gallon by himself, I think. Poor guy. We just let him go. We always have at
least plain vanilla ice cream, and often three flavors, all year, all the
time. My kids only have ice cream if they really want it. It's rare. They put
in a Ben & Jerry's not far from us, and though I've suggested it a couple of
times when one says hungry or what's new or let's go somewhere, they've always
kinda shrugged and suggested something else.
Sandra
ooooo, not here! My kids fight over who gets the last spoonful. Ice cream never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some every week, but definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura Gates-Lupton
<<<<<ooooo, not here! My kids fight over who gets the last spoonful. Ice
cream never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some
every week, but definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
Kristen>>>>
Kristen,
It sounds like we're in similar positions. I was thinking as I was reading the posts on this thread that I worry about the restrictions placed on my kids because of our financial situation more than I do about giving anyone too much. My kids have plenty to eat but we really have to carefully balance their wants with everyone's needs. I do buy ice cream every week, but the amount depends on how good the sales are and it often doesn't last beyond a few days. I also can't be as generous with their friends as I would like.
Glad to know I'm not the only one!
Laura
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cream never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some
every week, but definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
Kristen>>>>
Kristen,
It sounds like we're in similar positions. I was thinking as I was reading the posts on this thread that I worry about the restrictions placed on my kids because of our financial situation more than I do about giving anyone too much. My kids have plenty to eat but we really have to carefully balance their wants with everyone's needs. I do buy ice cream every week, but the amount depends on how good the sales are and it often doesn't last beyond a few days. I also can't be as generous with their friends as I would like.
Glad to know I'm not the only one!
Laura
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 6:03:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
lauraj2@... writes:
I've had them drop them off for me to baby sit (for FREE) and tell me "please
don't let them watch tv, they watch their 30 minutes already. And, no sweets,
she had her sweets for the week." Ugh! It drives me crazy.
------------
For free?
I'd want a LOT of money to change the rules for my kids in my house.
If we voluntarily put the candy away and keep the TV off, that's courtesy.
If someone tells us to, that's NOT courtesy. And telling someone else how to
live in their own house is way beyond tacky.
If someone's kids get to stay at my house, they're lucky. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lauraj2@... writes:
I've had them drop them off for me to baby sit (for FREE) and tell me "please
don't let them watch tv, they watch their 30 minutes already. And, no sweets,
she had her sweets for the week." Ugh! It drives me crazy.
------------
For free?
I'd want a LOT of money to change the rules for my kids in my house.
If we voluntarily put the candy away and keep the TV off, that's courtesy.
If someone tells us to, that's NOT courtesy. And telling someone else how to
live in their own house is way beyond tacky.
If someone's kids get to stay at my house, they're lucky. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 4:23:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
ooooo, not here! My kids fight over who gets the last spoonful. Ice cream
never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some every week, but
definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
------------
If we had only gotten some once in a while, they might have eaten it all too.
It seems strange, but it's the constant availablility that keeps them from
wanting more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
ooooo, not here! My kids fight over who gets the last spoonful. Ice cream
never lasts past 2 days after we get it. We usually have some every week, but
definitely not every day. We can't afford that :o).
------------
If we had only gotten some once in a while, they might have eaten it all too.
It seems strange, but it's the constant availablility that keeps them from
wanting more.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
> If we had only gotten some once in a while, they might have eatenit all too.
> It seems strange, but it's the constant availablility that keepsthem from
> wanting more.There is a great little book called Preventing Childhood Eating
Problems (or something like that- I can find it on my shelf if
anyone's interested in the author).
The author recommends an unending supply of whatever it is a child
can't seem to get enough of. For example, if it's oreos that a
child is obssessed with, keep a supply of them and refill it if it's
even threatening to get low. The idea is that once the child is
sure it's never going to be scarce the food obssession is suddenly
cured. I think the same author has another book for adults geared
to overcoming the same problems... whichever food you're *sure* you
can't stop eating, try always having more on hand than you can
possibly eat in one sitting, and then, while you're eating it pay
very close attention to when your body says "enough."
It seems expensive at first but you surely won't have to keep
refilling at the same fast pace once the excitement wears off.
I did this with marshmallows when I first read the book (something
my kids used to fight over). I got a huge supply for
building/eating and by the end of just one day my son decided they
didn't taste so great after all.
Patti
Vijay Berry Owens
Oh, this drives me NUTS. DD and MIL and I went to a friend's 4 y.o.'s
birthday party a few weeks ago. There were babies and kids there of all
ages. DD was the youngest at 14 months. The younger brother of the
birthday boy was the second youngest at 18 months. The rest were 2 and
up.
There was a group of moms, 4 or 5 of them, that never introduced
themselves to me, and their kids (ages 2-6) never interacted with anyone
else at the party because the moms spent the whole time:
-- chasing them away from the cheese puffs (come on, it's a PARTY)
-- angrily brushing grass and dirt from their clothes and scolding them
for getting dirty
-- grabbing toys away from them or removing them bodily from play areas
because they weren't "doing it right." One example of this was there
were these wooden boxes with holes in them for a bean bag toss. The kids
were walking on them and it was kind of a challenge not to step in one
of the holes. I admit, it looked like a sprained ankle waiting to
happen, but kids are amazingly agile, and not one of them had any
trouble navigating around the holes.
--begging them to take one more bite of hamburger and then dangling the
promise of a soda "it's reeeaaallly gooood" if they took just one more
bite. They proudly remarked to each other, "My little Fifi never has
soda, so it's a special treat."
Meanwhile, DD was happily filling a birthday hat with cheese puffs,
eating some of them, spilling (on purpose) them out of the hat onto the
lawn, putting them back in the hat and eating them, sharing them with
the dogs, splashing in the kiddie pool, tasting fruit punch for the
first time, watching the big kids running around with a "hero worship"
look on her face, etc. etc. She was having a blast. She stuck pretty
close to MIL and me, because she only really knew the host mom and her
two boys and a few others. But she was definitely enjoying the change
from our routine and could sense that this was really a special occasion.
The grown ups were sitting in a semi circle in chairs on the lawn and DD
went from person to person (ones that she knew before or had grown
comfortable with since we arrived) and was fed little tidbits off their
plates: corn pudding, baked beans, hot dog, etc. I didn't spend one
second telling her she couldn't have something or entreating her to eat
just one more bite of something. My only misstep was when I thought she
was done with her fruit punch and I finished it and she came looking for
more. Oops! I was persona non grata for a minute there!
She never got to interact with that little clique of kids who were being
hounded by their moms the whole party and those kids didn't seem like
they were having much fun.
It felt weird to arrive, stay for 2-3 hours, and then leave never having
interacted with those moms. They seemed so stressed out. I felt bad for
them because I felt really mellow and happy. Like I had just been to a
party. Imagine that! They were wound pretty tight and I guess the kids
were too. Sad.
I wish I could upload a picture for you all of DD in her polka dot
bathing suit eating cheese puffs, but I don't see a link to add a new
album.
-Vijay
birthday party a few weeks ago. There were babies and kids there of all
ages. DD was the youngest at 14 months. The younger brother of the
birthday boy was the second youngest at 18 months. The rest were 2 and
up.
There was a group of moms, 4 or 5 of them, that never introduced
themselves to me, and their kids (ages 2-6) never interacted with anyone
else at the party because the moms spent the whole time:
-- chasing them away from the cheese puffs (come on, it's a PARTY)
-- angrily brushing grass and dirt from their clothes and scolding them
for getting dirty
-- grabbing toys away from them or removing them bodily from play areas
because they weren't "doing it right." One example of this was there
were these wooden boxes with holes in them for a bean bag toss. The kids
were walking on them and it was kind of a challenge not to step in one
of the holes. I admit, it looked like a sprained ankle waiting to
happen, but kids are amazingly agile, and not one of them had any
trouble navigating around the holes.
--begging them to take one more bite of hamburger and then dangling the
promise of a soda "it's reeeaaallly gooood" if they took just one more
bite. They proudly remarked to each other, "My little Fifi never has
soda, so it's a special treat."
Meanwhile, DD was happily filling a birthday hat with cheese puffs,
eating some of them, spilling (on purpose) them out of the hat onto the
lawn, putting them back in the hat and eating them, sharing them with
the dogs, splashing in the kiddie pool, tasting fruit punch for the
first time, watching the big kids running around with a "hero worship"
look on her face, etc. etc. She was having a blast. She stuck pretty
close to MIL and me, because she only really knew the host mom and her
two boys and a few others. But she was definitely enjoying the change
from our routine and could sense that this was really a special occasion.
The grown ups were sitting in a semi circle in chairs on the lawn and DD
went from person to person (ones that she knew before or had grown
comfortable with since we arrived) and was fed little tidbits off their
plates: corn pudding, baked beans, hot dog, etc. I didn't spend one
second telling her she couldn't have something or entreating her to eat
just one more bite of something. My only misstep was when I thought she
was done with her fruit punch and I finished it and she came looking for
more. Oops! I was persona non grata for a minute there!
She never got to interact with that little clique of kids who were being
hounded by their moms the whole party and those kids didn't seem like
they were having much fun.
It felt weird to arrive, stay for 2-3 hours, and then leave never having
interacted with those moms. They seemed so stressed out. I felt bad for
them because I felt really mellow and happy. Like I had just been to a
party. Imagine that! They were wound pretty tight and I guess the kids
were too. Sad.
I wish I could upload a picture for you all of DD in her polka dot
bathing suit eating cheese puffs, but I don't see a link to add a new
album.
-Vijay
On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 02:03 PM, soggyboysmom wrote:
> DS was merrily running around, shoeless, having a great time.
> I'd check in with him on occasion to see if he wanted me to fix him
> a burger or hot dog or something or get a beverage (juice, water,
> soda, milk were available). He'd pause his play on occasion for a
> glass of water or something to eat and head back to playing. He was
> okay, DH and I were relaxing and chatting (or trying to anyway).
> Meanwhile, my bro and his wife were cajoling, threatening, bribing
> their two (5 and 3) to eat their meal (which they had no say in
> choosing) "eat 2 more bites of your hamburger or no more swings" was
> repeated I don't know how many times.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<--begging them to take one more bite of hamburger and then dangling the
promise of a soda "it's reeeaaallly gooood" if they took just one more
bite. They proudly remarked to each other, "My little Fifi never has
soda, so it's a special treat.">>>>
This was similar to the action at Jonah's bedlam filled birthday party on
July 4th, except less begging than ordering around and demanding that they
finish. I heard one little boy, who had consumed half of a good sized
homemade burger, say he was full, to which his mother replied, "no you're
not, sit down" in quite a nasty tone.
Jayn did her own thing. Renee announced on our arrival that the sodas were
for adults, and the children could only have juices. I'm afraid that I
replied at once, and pretty much automatically, that Jayn could have
whatever she wanted. I thought about it, since this was not likely Renee's
own idea, and then added that Jayn could have my share of the adult sodas if
she wanted soda (she didn't).
<<<Meanwhile, DD was happily filling a birthday hat with cheese puffs,
eating some of them, spilling (on purpose) them out of the hat onto the
lawn, putting them back in the hat and eating them, sharing them with
the dogs, splashing in the kiddie pool, tasting fruit punch for the
first time, watching the big kids running around with a "hero worship"
look on her face, etc. etc. She was having a blast. >>>>
This delightful picture reminded me of a time when we were visiting Jayn's
aunty when she was about 18 months. Due to power outages the sprinkler
system in the back yard lawn was out of whack and startled us all by
suddenly turning on while we were lounging around outside. Jayn was in
heaven! We have numerous photos of her increasingly wet as she cavorted in
her best dress, shrieking with laughter. Oh the disappointment when they
shut off in due course.
Robyn L. Coburn
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promise of a soda "it's reeeaaallly gooood" if they took just one more
bite. They proudly remarked to each other, "My little Fifi never has
soda, so it's a special treat.">>>>
This was similar to the action at Jonah's bedlam filled birthday party on
July 4th, except less begging than ordering around and demanding that they
finish. I heard one little boy, who had consumed half of a good sized
homemade burger, say he was full, to which his mother replied, "no you're
not, sit down" in quite a nasty tone.
Jayn did her own thing. Renee announced on our arrival that the sodas were
for adults, and the children could only have juices. I'm afraid that I
replied at once, and pretty much automatically, that Jayn could have
whatever she wanted. I thought about it, since this was not likely Renee's
own idea, and then added that Jayn could have my share of the adult sodas if
she wanted soda (she didn't).
<<<Meanwhile, DD was happily filling a birthday hat with cheese puffs,
eating some of them, spilling (on purpose) them out of the hat onto the
lawn, putting them back in the hat and eating them, sharing them with
the dogs, splashing in the kiddie pool, tasting fruit punch for the
first time, watching the big kids running around with a "hero worship"
look on her face, etc. etc. She was having a blast. >>>>
This delightful picture reminded me of a time when we were visiting Jayn's
aunty when she was about 18 months. Due to power outages the sprinkler
system in the back yard lawn was out of whack and startled us all by
suddenly turning on while we were lounging around outside. Jayn was in
heaven! We have numerous photos of her increasingly wet as she cavorted in
her best dress, shrieking with laughter. Oh the disappointment when they
shut off in due course.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/18/2004 8:09:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:
It seems expensive at first but you surely won't have to keep
refilling at the same fast pace once the excitement wears off.
================
Right.
We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all the
time.
Sometimes it gets too old.
When people say "we can't afford that" but report getting it every week,
that's more than we buy.
-=- I got a huge supply for
building/eating and by the end of just one day my son decided they
didn't taste so great after all.
-=-
I worked in a Dunkin' Donuts for a little while when I was 21. They said
"You can have all the donuts you want." That sounded good the first two days.
The third day I ate one on my break. The fourth and fifth day I ate one, but
it didn't taste so good. I didn'tlike donuts after that for a long, long
time. "All the donuts I wanted" turned to zero pretty quickly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
patti.schmidt2@... writes:
It seems expensive at first but you surely won't have to keep
refilling at the same fast pace once the excitement wears off.
================
Right.
We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all the
time.
Sometimes it gets too old.
When people say "we can't afford that" but report getting it every week,
that's more than we buy.
-=- I got a huge supply for
building/eating and by the end of just one day my son decided they
didn't taste so great after all.
-=-
I worked in a Dunkin' Donuts for a little while when I was 21. They said
"You can have all the donuts you want." That sounded good the first two days.
The third day I ate one on my break. The fourth and fifth day I ate one, but
it didn't taste so good. I didn'tlike donuts after that for a long, long
time. "All the donuts I wanted" turned to zero pretty quickly.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<It sounds like we're in similar positions. I was thinking as I was
reading the posts on this thread that I worry about the restrictions placed
on my kids because of our financial situation more than I do about giving
anyone too much. My kids have plenty to eat but we really have to carefully
balance their wants with everyone's needs. I do buy ice cream every week,
but the amount depends on how good the sales are and it often doesn't last
beyond a few days. I also can't be as generous with their friends as I would
like.>>>
Family budget is a *real life* reason for certain restrictions, plus the
whole family gets to share in the "deprivation" (g). It is not something
only the children necessarily have to live with, because the parents are
being controlling for whatever untrusting or "teaching a life-lesson"
reason.
I did not intend to imply that I had a problem with the amount of food my
visitors were consuming from a financial aspect. As it happens they don't
come here that often for many reasons, some of which I have talked about in
the past, so it is not like a constant drain on my resources. Nor is it
meals, but snacks. If we have run out of something that they would like, oh
well.
Jayn may have whatever she wants to eat (from the food in the house or the
menu at the restaurant) at any time that she wants it. I want to give the
children who visit here the benefit of being treated like rational people. I
usually ask visiting kids if they are allowed some food, and then I take
their word for it. I still tend to speak to the kids if the parents are in
the house too, and let the kids go do the asking for permission if they need
to. Most of the time when it is little folk Jayn's age, the Moms bring their
own snacks along as well, but there is nothing like someone else's snack
ahead of your own. (g)
In the case of Renee, there seems to be a history of less than truthfulness
and other motivations for wanting foods than peckishness. I'm envisioning
(negatively predictive) a scenario where her mother discovers she has been
eating something that I have given her, and that Mom won't *blame* me, but
*will* punish and/or be unkind to Renee. My first strategy is to offer foods
that are surely unremarkable, like apples or sandwiches. It's better when
just one of them is here, and we try to keep it that way more often than
not.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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reading the posts on this thread that I worry about the restrictions placed
on my kids because of our financial situation more than I do about giving
anyone too much. My kids have plenty to eat but we really have to carefully
balance their wants with everyone's needs. I do buy ice cream every week,
but the amount depends on how good the sales are and it often doesn't last
beyond a few days. I also can't be as generous with their friends as I would
like.>>>
Family budget is a *real life* reason for certain restrictions, plus the
whole family gets to share in the "deprivation" (g). It is not something
only the children necessarily have to live with, because the parents are
being controlling for whatever untrusting or "teaching a life-lesson"
reason.
I did not intend to imply that I had a problem with the amount of food my
visitors were consuming from a financial aspect. As it happens they don't
come here that often for many reasons, some of which I have talked about in
the past, so it is not like a constant drain on my resources. Nor is it
meals, but snacks. If we have run out of something that they would like, oh
well.
Jayn may have whatever she wants to eat (from the food in the house or the
menu at the restaurant) at any time that she wants it. I want to give the
children who visit here the benefit of being treated like rational people. I
usually ask visiting kids if they are allowed some food, and then I take
their word for it. I still tend to speak to the kids if the parents are in
the house too, and let the kids go do the asking for permission if they need
to. Most of the time when it is little folk Jayn's age, the Moms bring their
own snacks along as well, but there is nothing like someone else's snack
ahead of your own. (g)
In the case of Renee, there seems to be a history of less than truthfulness
and other motivations for wanting foods than peckishness. I'm envisioning
(negatively predictive) a scenario where her mother discovers she has been
eating something that I have given her, and that Mom won't *blame* me, but
*will* punish and/or be unkind to Renee. My first strategy is to offer foods
that are surely unremarkable, like apples or sandwiches. It's better when
just one of them is here, and we try to keep it that way more often than
not.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Andrea Burlingame
Patti wrote:
==There is a great little book called Preventing Childhood Eating
Problems (or something like that- I can find it on my shelf if
anyone's interested in the author).
The author recommends an unending supply of whatever it is a child
can't seem to get enough of.==
This reminds me of a picture book we once picked up from the library. I
can't remember the name of it, but it was about a large family of
anthropomorphic animals (can't remember which animal they were--might have
been elephants?). Anyway, all the children LOVED ketchup on everything and
constantly begged for more ketchup, etc.. Well, the wise Mama bought a
Costco-like huge,triple supply of ketchup and served nothing but ketchup
over several meals for a couple of days. Ketchup soup, Toast with ketchup,
ketchup sundaes, etc... At first the children were thrilled, but of course,
they eventually wanted to eat something else and had had their fill of
ketchup for a while. My kids thought this was pretty funny and liked the
way it was all handled, especially since they love ketchup too. I laughed
too, but wondered, "hmmm....I wonder if this would work with other
foods--the ones my kids are obsessed with?" This was before I really read
this list, so it was a bit of a novel thought for me. As I read and try
out, it gets less and less novel and more and more compelling!
~Andrea
==There is a great little book called Preventing Childhood Eating
Problems (or something like that- I can find it on my shelf if
anyone's interested in the author).
The author recommends an unending supply of whatever it is a child
can't seem to get enough of.==
This reminds me of a picture book we once picked up from the library. I
can't remember the name of it, but it was about a large family of
anthropomorphic animals (can't remember which animal they were--might have
been elephants?). Anyway, all the children LOVED ketchup on everything and
constantly begged for more ketchup, etc.. Well, the wise Mama bought a
Costco-like huge,triple supply of ketchup and served nothing but ketchup
over several meals for a couple of days. Ketchup soup, Toast with ketchup,
ketchup sundaes, etc... At first the children were thrilled, but of course,
they eventually wanted to eat something else and had had their fill of
ketchup for a while. My kids thought this was pretty funny and liked the
way it was all handled, especially since they love ketchup too. I laughed
too, but wondered, "hmmm....I wonder if this would work with other
foods--the ones my kids are obsessed with?" This was before I really read
this list, so it was a bit of a novel thought for me. As I read and try
out, it gets less and less novel and more and more compelling!
~Andrea
Andrea Burlingame
Sandra wrote:
I worked in a Dunkin' Donuts for a little while when I was 21. They said
"You can have all the donuts you want." That sounded good the first two
days.
The third day I ate one on my break. The fourth and fifth day I ate one,
but
it didn't taste so good. I didn'tlike donuts after that for a long, long
time. "All the donuts I wanted" turned to zero pretty quickly.
======================================
I worked in a bakery as a teenager, and we could take home day old stuff.
Everyone warned me not to eat too much. It was easy not too--except for the
miniature cheesecakes. I couldn't get enough of these. Brought one home
most every time I worked. I seem to have trouble self-regulating with some
things, even now. Especially if I'm stressed out.. Then I eat and
eat...especially in the evenings after the kids are in bed (first quite
moment to indulge, I guess.)
Maybe this is why I'm so nervous about removing food limits with my kids. I
worry that my 4 yo daughter will want to eat nothing but sweet stuff. I
keep reading about others who removed the limits with fantastic results, but
I'm afraid to let go completely. I will say that she has recently shown me
that she can recognize that she doesn't feel good when she eats a lot of
sugary stuff and nothing else. And she wouldn't have discovered this,
except that I've been saying yes, and yes, and yes...a LOT more.
~Andrea (who's still plugging away at this paradigm shift!)
I worked in a Dunkin' Donuts for a little while when I was 21. They said
"You can have all the donuts you want." That sounded good the first two
days.
The third day I ate one on my break. The fourth and fifth day I ate one,
but
it didn't taste so good. I didn'tlike donuts after that for a long, long
time. "All the donuts I wanted" turned to zero pretty quickly.
======================================
I worked in a bakery as a teenager, and we could take home day old stuff.
Everyone warned me not to eat too much. It was easy not too--except for the
miniature cheesecakes. I couldn't get enough of these. Brought one home
most every time I worked. I seem to have trouble self-regulating with some
things, even now. Especially if I'm stressed out.. Then I eat and
eat...especially in the evenings after the kids are in bed (first quite
moment to indulge, I guess.)
Maybe this is why I'm so nervous about removing food limits with my kids. I
worry that my 4 yo daughter will want to eat nothing but sweet stuff. I
keep reading about others who removed the limits with fantastic results, but
I'm afraid to let go completely. I will say that she has recently shown me
that she can recognize that she doesn't feel good when she eats a lot of
sugary stuff and nothing else. And she wouldn't have discovered this,
except that I've been saying yes, and yes, and yes...a LOT more.
~Andrea (who's still plugging away at this paradigm shift!)
Robyn Coburn
<<<If we know a kid doesn't watch South Park or The Simpsons at their house,
we just do other stuff. My kids can easily do without. We don't make a big
deal about it.>>>
In the case of my "problem visitors" - now there's a label that could become
self perpetuating - these kids are allowed to watch kid's tv, play video
games and have kid's movies from Blockbuster - BUT these things are used as
behavior controlling tools by their parents - rewards for good behavior,
threats of withdrawing for bad behavior.
Once they were watching some animated DVD that Jayn had wanted to watch and
offered to Renee as a kind of treat for her friend. Her mother came to
collect her and wanted her to leave at once. Feeling sorry for her, I
negotiated for her to stay 'til the end, only about 15 minutes on.
Robyn L. Coburn
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we just do other stuff. My kids can easily do without. We don't make a big
deal about it.>>>
In the case of my "problem visitors" - now there's a label that could become
self perpetuating - these kids are allowed to watch kid's tv, play video
games and have kid's movies from Blockbuster - BUT these things are used as
behavior controlling tools by their parents - rewards for good behavior,
threats of withdrawing for bad behavior.
Once they were watching some animated DVD that Jayn had wanted to watch and
offered to Renee as a kind of treat for her friend. Her mother came to
collect her and wanted her to leave at once. Feeling sorry for her, I
negotiated for her to stay 'til the end, only about 15 minutes on.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Robyn Coburn
<<<I struggle with this too, as most (all of?) the children that visit are
restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house.
Mostly it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through
this, not to mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and
needy), and at myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~* >>>
You have nailed it! This resentment is exactly what I am feeling and why.
However I have to say that dh and I also just don't take to Renee, although
we both like Jonah. I have to work hard at just being neutral and pleasant
to her, and actively seek out pleasant thoughts to have about her when she
is here. For example she always courteously takes her wrapper or empty
container to the trash can. I don't like disliking a child so thoroughly - I
feel a bit guilty about it.
<<My take on this is maybe so "out there"---but *I* think it's due the
forced "sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated
same-age children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a
bigger one when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child
WILL have trouble sharing.>>>
I have read this before, but have no personal experience of it. Only
personal experience of witnessing the misery of children being made to give
up their special toy and threatened with Time-Out when they protested. (Not
a prevalent attitude amongst my local home schoolers - just ordinary parents
at the park.) What I do know from our experience is that if children are not
required to share unwillingly, they eventually share perfectly willingly.
I have never forced Jayn to share, and we also put up any special toys or
DVD's she is unwilling to have other kids use.
<<My guess is that she's been told this over and over and over and MADE to
share even when she doesn't want to.>>>
I'm sure you are correct. Renee's definition of sharing here is "You give
that to me".
<<<My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No
M&M's in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING
cool. I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat
happily, but I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and
sugar" that goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.>>>
Renee and Jonah's arrivals are often spontaneous. Also my kitchen is tiny,
and I have no pantry to stash stuff in. But I like the concept.
<<<Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the
whining and begging and snooping for stuff here.>>>
Snooping - yes, yes. I have been trying to rationalize away my discomfort at
Jonah just going to my fridge to help himself to food, and ask what things
are in there. I don't know if he does this at home - I mean the self serving
part. Is it wrong to ask him to ask first, or to let me get it for him? I
have been telling myself that it is because he is relaxed here, but kept
wishing he weren't so.
I have been engaging in a campaign to keep visiting kids out of our (only)
bedroom - I really want some private space. To be honest I usually feel
uncomfortable when visiting other people's homes when they treat their own
adult's bedroom as if it were public space for playing/conversing in. It
makes me feel weirdly like a snooper, even though I am not.
<<<I was better/calmer/more generous with Cameron's friends----but they
didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much time here as all these
homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.>>>
I have to have breaks between days, and often so does Jayn, and I try to
keep the visits shorter - like a couple of hours. I actually get pretty worn
and stressed with almost all the play-dates Jayn has had recently - but it
is sometimes the parents rather than the child. It seems like the kid/parent
combinations which increase my serenity and who I would like to see more of
are less available for play-dates than the ones that leave me feeling like a
limp rag who are always wanting to come over.
Robyn L. Coburn
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restricted. It's a neediness that's not natural or normal at our house.
Mostly it makes me mad. I'm mad at the parents (for putting *me* through
this, not to mention their kids), at the kids (for being so whiney and
needy), and at myself (for even getting angry). :-P~~~~* >>>
You have nailed it! This resentment is exactly what I am feeling and why.
However I have to say that dh and I also just don't take to Renee, although
we both like Jonah. I have to work hard at just being neutral and pleasant
to her, and actively seek out pleasant thoughts to have about her when she
is here. For example she always courteously takes her wrapper or empty
container to the trash can. I don't like disliking a child so thoroughly - I
feel a bit guilty about it.
<<My take on this is maybe so "out there"---but *I* think it's due the
forced "sharing" that goes on with close-in-age siblings or with unrelated
same-age children (like in day cares). Forcing a small child (and even a
bigger one when he's not ready) to share seems to ensure that the child
WILL have trouble sharing.>>>
I have read this before, but have no personal experience of it. Only
personal experience of witnessing the misery of children being made to give
up their special toy and threatened with Time-Out when they protested. (Not
a prevalent attitude amongst my local home schoolers - just ordinary parents
at the park.) What I do know from our experience is that if children are not
required to share unwillingly, they eventually share perfectly willingly.
I have never forced Jayn to share, and we also put up any special toys or
DVD's she is unwilling to have other kids use.
<<My guess is that she's been told this over and over and over and MADE to
share even when she doesn't want to.>>>
I'm sure you are correct. Renee's definition of sharing here is "You give
that to me".
<<<My recent solution is to just put everything up while they're here. No
M&M's in the bowl, no just-baked brownies, no sodas in the 'frig"----NOTHING
cool. I still offer Monkey Platters in the afternoon, which they eat
happily, but I'm just not comfortable with the "eating me out of house and
sugar" that goes on when I keep the "sweets" out.>>>
Renee and Jonah's arrivals are often spontaneous. Also my kitchen is tiny,
and I have no pantry to stash stuff in. But I like the concept.
<<<Some of you may just be such better Samaritans <g> , but I HATE the
whining and begging and snooping for stuff here.>>>
Snooping - yes, yes. I have been trying to rationalize away my discomfort at
Jonah just going to my fridge to help himself to food, and ask what things
are in there. I don't know if he does this at home - I mean the self serving
part. Is it wrong to ask him to ask first, or to let me get it for him? I
have been telling myself that it is because he is relaxed here, but kept
wishing he weren't so.
I have been engaging in a campaign to keep visiting kids out of our (only)
bedroom - I really want some private space. To be honest I usually feel
uncomfortable when visiting other people's homes when they treat their own
adult's bedroom as if it were public space for playing/conversing in. It
makes me feel weirdly like a snooper, even though I am not.
<<<I was better/calmer/more generous with Cameron's friends----but they
didn't (couldn't, with school) spend as much time here as all these
homeschoolers---sometimes days on end.>>>
I have to have breaks between days, and often so does Jayn, and I try to
keep the visits shorter - like a couple of hours. I actually get pretty worn
and stressed with almost all the play-dates Jayn has had recently - but it
is sometimes the parents rather than the child. It seems like the kid/parent
combinations which increase my serenity and who I would like to see more of
are less available for play-dates than the ones that leave me feeling like a
limp rag who are always wanting to come over.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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Fetteroll
on 8/18/04 9:28 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
from the store.
Joyce
> If we had only gotten some once in a while, they might have eaten it all too.Or even knowing it could be constantly available if someone asked for it
> It seems strange, but it's the constant availablility that keeps them from
> wanting more.
from the store.
Joyce
Game-Enthusiast
It really depends on what you like. We always have 3 or 4 boxes of
ice-cream in the freezer. (We each pick out a flavor at the grocery store.)
Dd2 and I eat ice-cream *every* night. It's my favorite food. When dh is
home, he eats it every night too. Dd1 eats it once in a while. She just
doesn't like sweets as much as the rest of us. (But although we eat it
every day, we only eat a small cone's worth, most of the time and no one
wants more.)
I absolutely never worry about what foods dd1 eats. (Today she had
blueberries and a cookie and milk for breakfast.) She eats way more
nutritious foods than sweets overall. That's just her preference.
Occasionally I do worry about dd2. Sometimes it seems like she could
happily live on sweets. More often than not her choices do balance out
pretty well, but when she is on a kick of eating mostly sweets, which she'll
do sometimes for a couple or three days in a row, I do worry. I always
offer healthy stuff that she likes but she just likes sweets a lot.
Despite the fact that dd2 has had more sweets available to her in her life
and has not had restrictions placed on them, she still eats more sweets than
I am comfortable with at times. I still would never control what she eats.
I do sometimes remind her that she hasn't had anything nutritious for a
while and she will often (not always) ask me to make her something
nutritious before she eats more sweets.
My point was that different people have different preference and even if
sweets are not restricted it won't always turn out that a person doesn't
each much of that food. I have one who is like Holly and I have to throw
out her Halloween candy after many months and another who eats all her
Halloween candy in a week or so and wished she had more.
I grew up in a house where home-made sweets were always available. I love
to eat, esp. sweets. If I have sweets in my house, I have a hard time not
eating them in what I feel is excess. (Yesterday I ate 12 sugar cookies
that we made; off to exercise now.)
If you could see my dd2, you'd wonder why I ever worry about her eating too
many sweets. She is as thin as a rail. But I worry about her getting
enough nutritious food, not becoming obese. I guess I could give her a
vitamin a day and stop worrying. If I exercise regularly I stay at a
healthy weight despite the fact that I over do it on sweets from time to
time and eat ice-cream every day.
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
---------------------
It seems expensive at first but you surely won't have to keep
refilling at the same fast pace once the excitement wears off.
================
Right.
We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all the
time.
Sometimes it gets too old.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ice-cream in the freezer. (We each pick out a flavor at the grocery store.)
Dd2 and I eat ice-cream *every* night. It's my favorite food. When dh is
home, he eats it every night too. Dd1 eats it once in a while. She just
doesn't like sweets as much as the rest of us. (But although we eat it
every day, we only eat a small cone's worth, most of the time and no one
wants more.)
I absolutely never worry about what foods dd1 eats. (Today she had
blueberries and a cookie and milk for breakfast.) She eats way more
nutritious foods than sweets overall. That's just her preference.
Occasionally I do worry about dd2. Sometimes it seems like she could
happily live on sweets. More often than not her choices do balance out
pretty well, but when she is on a kick of eating mostly sweets, which she'll
do sometimes for a couple or three days in a row, I do worry. I always
offer healthy stuff that she likes but she just likes sweets a lot.
Despite the fact that dd2 has had more sweets available to her in her life
and has not had restrictions placed on them, she still eats more sweets than
I am comfortable with at times. I still would never control what she eats.
I do sometimes remind her that she hasn't had anything nutritious for a
while and she will often (not always) ask me to make her something
nutritious before she eats more sweets.
My point was that different people have different preference and even if
sweets are not restricted it won't always turn out that a person doesn't
each much of that food. I have one who is like Holly and I have to throw
out her Halloween candy after many months and another who eats all her
Halloween candy in a week or so and wished she had more.
I grew up in a house where home-made sweets were always available. I love
to eat, esp. sweets. If I have sweets in my house, I have a hard time not
eating them in what I feel is excess. (Yesterday I ate 12 sugar cookies
that we made; off to exercise now.)
If you could see my dd2, you'd wonder why I ever worry about her eating too
many sweets. She is as thin as a rail. But I worry about her getting
enough nutritious food, not becoming obese. I guess I could give her a
vitamin a day and stop worrying. If I exercise regularly I stay at a
healthy weight despite the fact that I over do it on sweets from time to
time and eat ice-cream every day.
Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
---------------------
It seems expensive at first but you surely won't have to keep
refilling at the same fast pace once the excitement wears off.
================
Right.
We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all the
time.
Sometimes it gets too old.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Laura Gates-Lupton
Sandra wrote:
<<<Right. We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all
the time. Sometimes it gets too old.
When people say "we can't afford that" but report getting it every week,
that's more than we buy. >>>
I agree that this all makes a kind of sense. It's like my dad telling me (when I was a teenager) that it cost just as much to keep the gas tank full as it does to have it empty. It's all great in theory, but if you don't have the cash to begin with, it isn't going to happen.
This past week when I went to the grocery store, after rolling coins to get some of the funds to do it, I had to put some things I already had in my cart back in order to get ice cream (I always go to the freezer section last). It's true that I could've put back $10 worth of items to get 4 cartons of the cheapest ice cream there ($2.25 for a half gallon) but that was definitely not my priority. I bought one, skipped the rest of the things on my list, and that will be it until next week.
I take heart in knowing that this is a temporary situation for us. We've had some huge household repair bills (following a recent plumbing disaster and the discovery of termites) as well as some unsightly medical bills. I've been in this place before, with money being incredibly tight. It isn't fun, though we definitely strive to be creative and make the best of it, and it's much harder with kids than it was in my just-out-of-grad-school-single-adult-days.
Laura
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<<<Right. We spend very little on ice cream, now that we keep it in the house all
the time. Sometimes it gets too old.
When people say "we can't afford that" but report getting it every week,
that's more than we buy. >>>
I agree that this all makes a kind of sense. It's like my dad telling me (when I was a teenager) that it cost just as much to keep the gas tank full as it does to have it empty. It's all great in theory, but if you don't have the cash to begin with, it isn't going to happen.
This past week when I went to the grocery store, after rolling coins to get some of the funds to do it, I had to put some things I already had in my cart back in order to get ice cream (I always go to the freezer section last). It's true that I could've put back $10 worth of items to get 4 cartons of the cheapest ice cream there ($2.25 for a half gallon) but that was definitely not my priority. I bought one, skipped the rest of the things on my list, and that will be it until next week.
I take heart in knowing that this is a temporary situation for us. We've had some huge household repair bills (following a recent plumbing disaster and the discovery of termites) as well as some unsightly medical bills. I've been in this place before, with money being incredibly tight. It isn't fun, though we definitely strive to be creative and make the best of it, and it's much harder with kids than it was in my just-out-of-grad-school-single-adult-days.
Laura
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Robyn Coburn
<<<<If you could see my dd2, you'd wonder why I ever worry about her eating
too many sweets. She is as thin as a rail. But I worry about her getting
enough nutritious food, not becoming obese. I guess I could give her a
vitamin a day and stop worrying. >>>>
Sounds like you accidentally found the solution to your problem.
Robyn L. Coburn
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too many sweets. She is as thin as a rail. But I worry about her getting
enough nutritious food, not becoming obese. I guess I could give her a
vitamin a day and stop worrying. >>>>
Sounds like you accidentally found the solution to your problem.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Laura Gates-Lupton
Robyn Coburn wrote:
<<I did not intend to imply that I had a problem with the amount of food
my
visitors were consuming from a financial aspect.>>>
I don't think you did imply this, Robyn. In fact, as I read your initial post I was thinking that you seemed relaxed about the financial side of this issue in that it didn't seem to come up for you. I can easily imagine my own children taking advantage of your generosity. They are always curious to know what food other people eat and are quick to accept most anything offered, especially if it's a treat to them. The difference though, is that I wouldn't restrict them from accepting (though I would expect them to exhibit good manners and not forage through your refrigerator uninvited!).
I've been wondering whether you might consider sitting down with Renee and Jonah's mother (without the kids present) and telling her that you no longer feel comfortable enforcing her restrictions when the kids are in your home without her. You could just tell her honestly but gently that you don't believe in restricting kids in this way and how it makes you feel to have to do so. I wonder how Jayn perceives all of this? You could let the mother know that you want to set an example for Jayn that follows your own values and beliefs. I don't see where you have much to lose. At worst, she may no longer allow the kids in your home and that doesn't sound like such a horrible outcome.
Glad you posted this. It's been a very interesting topic!!
Laura
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<<I did not intend to imply that I had a problem with the amount of food
my
visitors were consuming from a financial aspect.>>>
I don't think you did imply this, Robyn. In fact, as I read your initial post I was thinking that you seemed relaxed about the financial side of this issue in that it didn't seem to come up for you. I can easily imagine my own children taking advantage of your generosity. They are always curious to know what food other people eat and are quick to accept most anything offered, especially if it's a treat to them. The difference though, is that I wouldn't restrict them from accepting (though I would expect them to exhibit good manners and not forage through your refrigerator uninvited!).
I've been wondering whether you might consider sitting down with Renee and Jonah's mother (without the kids present) and telling her that you no longer feel comfortable enforcing her restrictions when the kids are in your home without her. You could just tell her honestly but gently that you don't believe in restricting kids in this way and how it makes you feel to have to do so. I wonder how Jayn perceives all of this? You could let the mother know that you want to set an example for Jayn that follows your own values and beliefs. I don't see where you have much to lose. At worst, she may no longer allow the kids in your home and that doesn't sound like such a horrible outcome.
Glad you posted this. It's been a very interesting topic!!
Laura
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