jennefer harper

Thank you all for your comments on this thread. They
have been helpful if not insightful. Just to clarify,
I offered up The Sopranos and The Lord of The Rings
only as examples; there are others, and the issue
wasn't meant to only separate out these two films. We
do not, by the way, watch these or these type of films
around our children (ages 3 and 1). We watch them
when they are either napping or asleep for the night,
or once in a while we actually get to go out on a date
to the movies without the kiddos.

But, our opportunities to watch these 'adult' films
are getting fewer, so we are wondering 1. what films
can we now watch with our children in the room and 2.
When can we watch certain types of films with our
children in the room (whether it's what age, or what
developmental stage they're at).

It's hard for me to accept that all unschooling
philosophy is applicable to all children of all ages.
I feel like some unschooling philosophy is appropriate
for older children and not for younger. and in my
case, younger means 3 not 9. I have been looking for
an outlet to discuss issues with this younger age
group and have found it challenging. Although I have
gained a wealth of knowledge from this group, and
although I know some families on this group have
children around my childrens' ages, it seems like the
majority of the discussion is geared toward the older
child. Which is fine, but I could use more discussion
toward the very young child. I checked out a group
called preunschooling, and left it because it was not
very helpful as the people on it didn't really have a
genuine clue as to what unschooling really was as they
discussed cirriculum and daycare/preschool quite a
bit!? If anyone can point me in a direction where I
can get more insight on the younger age group, that
would be great.

I agree that there are some stages in early life that
little kids don't need to know about much. I believe
Sandra Dodd posted a comment to this effect.

Although posted under a different thread, and although
it seems to contradict her earlier comment about
"Innocence being ignorance dressed in a frilly dress",
this statement by Sandra Dodd, and a response by
another poster rings true to my feelings:

>Innocence is as natural as any other progression in
>live and learning.

>*********************************

>I agree with this too. I think it really depends on
>the individual
>child, and what their level of interest is and where
>they are
>developmentally.

So, for me and my child, it seems right to provide and
withold (by not giving the choice) certain movies that
do not seem appropriate to their psychological and
emotional development. I am happy to keep my 3 year
old as 'innocent' as possible because I do believe
there are some things he does not need to know or
worry about- yet. (For example, rape, murder,
abuse...) At the same time I do know there will be a
time he will be mature enough to digest all that.
And, I guess, I will just have to cue into his
development to determine that as I'm sure as he gets
older he will be able to provide me with feedback as
well.


>You haven't offered up any reasons why your son
>seeing those movies
>would be bad other then you being uncomfortable which
>I think has nothing
>to do with why he shouldn't watch them and that he
>might freak out.

It's not so much that I would be uncomfortable with my
son watching certain images as I would be concerned
that he would not understand them or may want to try
to imitate them. For example, if he sees a violent
scene, I would be concerned that he may try it out on
his 1 year old brother. Also, I think he is not
emotionally and psychologically ready to watch sex. I
have no problem with him watching nudity but do not
think he is ready to watch sex. We haven't talked
about it yet, so I don't feel his first exposure
should be from a movie.

I do appreciate the comments and am thinking of us all
watching the special effects part of the LOTR DVDs.
Good idea, and I know my partner would be excited
about that.

Sorry this got so lengthy!
-Jennefer





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Robyn Coburn

<<<If anyone can point me in a direction where I
can get more insight on the younger age group, that
would be great.>>>

You may find [email protected] fills more of your needs.
Many of the same people are both here and there (including myself obviously,
and the U/B list owners Ren and Kelly), but it *seems* that there are more
posters with younger children in their families. Maybe I just notice them
more because my dd is 4.5. It is more about people beginning Unschooling, so
that may be why there are younger children talked about - not exclusively of
course. There are also families with older children who are nonetheless new
to Unschooling.

Robyn L. Coburn



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 8/6/2004

Fetteroll

on 8/17/04 2:10 PM, jennefer harper at jenneferh2000@... wrote:

> But, our opportunities to watch these 'adult' films
> are getting fewer, so we are wondering

I found that when I accepted that was the way life would be for a while,
that I really looked forward to kids movies because I was sort of revisiting
childhood through my daughter's delight and didn't miss the adult movies as
much.

I don't think my daughter much noticed adult TV before 4 or 5 and then she
started relating what she saw to what happened in real life. (I'm recalling
we stopped watching ER about that time.) Before that if it wasn't a cartoon
or an animal or something she wanted to see, it didn't hold her attention.

I think Kat was 5 maybe when she started watching Xena which had a fair
amount of violence in it. But she's always been drawn to anything funny so
she avoided the more violent ones because they were also more serious. Same
with Buffy.

> At the same time I do know there will be a
> time he will be mature enough to digest all that.
> And, I guess, I will just have to cue into his
> development to determine that as I'm sure as he gets
> older he will be able to provide me with feedback as
> well.

People can tell you their experiences, but there isn't a timetable that will
let you know when you can finally watch Kill Bill Vol. 1 or Angel Heart with
the kids in the room. Some kids are sensitive and maybe they won't even want
to see those as adutls. Some kids get the pretend aspect see special effects
and made up stuff.

I think 1 and 3 are rough ages since it seems like these times will go on
forever. Maybe because they're so far from adult interests and so demanding
of time. But they do grow and they do change. And then you start feeling
that it really won't last forever.

> It's hard for me to accept that all unschooling
> philosophy is applicable to all children of all ages.

The philosophy is applicable but how people put it into practice will look
different with different ages and different personalities and different
learning styles.

Joyce

Danielle Conger

<>It's hard for me to accept that all unschooling
philosophy is applicable to all children of all ages.
I feel like some unschooling philosophy is appropriate
for older children and not for younger. and in my
case, younger means 3 not 9. I have been looking for
an outlet to discuss issues with this younger age
group and have found it challenging.
============

Jennefer,

My children are 7, 5 and 4. I know Robyn's Jane is young, too, maybe 3?
There are a couple of us, at least, who are active here with young
children. The wonderful thing about coming to unschooling is that you
can gradually lift certain controls as they become appropriate, as with
movies and tv. Right now, work on saying yes more, work on finding ways
to say yes if the initial response needs to be no.

Even very young children can decide when they are hungry and tired. When
mine were younger, they had free access to a snack cart filled with food
they could freely choose. Yes, these choices were limited to healthy
choices--pretzels, graham crackers, animal crackers were the closest
thing to cookies in there. In the refridgerator on the lowest shelf I
had cubed fruit and sliced veggies and cheese slices. I had read quite a
bit of Monetssori philosophy when my oldest was about 2, out of which I
took the idea that children really wanted to use real tools, not fake or
pretend tools, that children took pride in caring for their own things,
that the space needed to be set up at child level and made child size
whenever possible. This approach made a huge difference in our lives--my
girls, especially, really responded to this. It gave them a tremendous
amount of control over themselves and their environment and paved the
way for unschooling.

Same thing with bedtimes. Even when we had a bedtime routine--bath,
story, snuggles--the children were never told to get in bed and shut
their eyes. They were always welcome to play quietly in their rooms
until they felt ready to go to sleep, and my girls have always shared a
room, so there was plenty of playing. They are 17 months apart, and for
a long time Julia (5 now) would fall asleep around 9:00 and Emily would
continue playing until 10:30 or so. It wasn't a very difficult step to
say to tell them they were welcome to play quietly downstairs until they
were ready to fall asleep.

I think lots of unschooling with younger children can happen quite
naturally as they grow. You're coming to unschooling at a perfect time.
Take it gradually, and try to not to feel like you have to do it all at
once like flipping a switch. Work on finding more ways to say yes, more
ways for your children to control their own environment and you will
begin to see all the wonderful aspects of unschooling.

================
If anyone can point me in a direction where I
can get more insight on the younger age group, that
would be great.
================

You might find my website helpful
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html Also, once the
unschooling.com boards are back up and running, there is a file there
for preschool topics. Feel free to email me off list to discuss more
danielle.conger@...

I responded specifically to many of your questions below, but maybe you
didn't see my post, so here it is again.

=============
Excuse my probably basic question here, but has this
always been the case, or was there a certain age when
you started to let her watch whatever she wants? It
seems like there are some 'unschooling' families with
young children 'preschool' age or younger (3 years old
here) who only selectively let there children watch TV
or videos.
===================


<>This hasn't always been the case for us, as I touched on a bit in my
tv post. For a long time we didn't have tv. When the kids were really
young--when my oldest was 3 or under--I limited the amount of time they
watched videos to an hour or under a day. By the time she was 4, though,
she had free access to the videos and could pop them in when she wanted,
though that was still pretty controlled and limited by what we had in
the house. I remember lots of Teletubbies, Dragon Tales, Bear in the Big
Blue House, Masie, countless Disney movies. We have a *huge* video
collection because of those years without tv.

When I first started reading here (a year ago in November, I think), I
began rethinking my approach to tv (and bedtimes and food). We had
gotten cable several months before, so the kids (6, 4 and 3 at that
point) were watching tv as well as videos, though still more often
videos. I remember I had been wondering for a while when it would be
"okay" to let my kids watch Star Wars, which I couldn't wait to share
with them because it's such an interest for dh and I. Emily had seen
bits and pieces of the Phantom Menace, the parts that weren't too scary,
but it was still something that dh and I watched after the kids went to
bed. For us, that's how it started--with Star Wars. After Star Wars, we
began watching other things as well. It was gradual, not an
in-your-face-violence kind of thing. Em had also seen parts of Lord of
the Rings, so we were soon sharing that with her as well. At first, she
got really upset by the dead dwarves in the mines and stopped watching.
It took her several months before she was comfortable trying again. Same
thing with Spiderman--it was just too realistic when we first rented it,
maybe 6 months ago so we turned it off. We tried again a couple of weeks
ago, and they loved it--even the 4 year old. (A friend of mine has
gotten quite a bit of grief from her 8 year old because he's not allowed
to watch it but knows that Sam has.) We've shared lots of really great
movies over the past year, but we still enjoy watching Disney movies,
cartoons or whatever. We've watched all the Star Wars, Lord of the
Rings, Indiana Jones, Men in Black, X-Men. We've also watched Crouching
Tiger, Hidden Dragon; The Last Samurai; Sound of Music; Peter Pan; Harry
Potter and many others.

Like I said, this has been gradual. The kids probably don't even
remember not having free choice because it went from being very young to
free choice of videos to free choice of tv and movies. But, that doesn't
mean that they watch whatever they want without any parental input or
presence. Emily watched the Last Samurai in our bed with us, and she
watched me sob at the end when the Samurai get massacred. We talked
about *why* I was crying so hard and what it meant to me to watch that.
They haven't seen The Matrix yet, but they haven't asked to see it
either. When Dh rented Kill Bill, we told the kids that it was an adult
movie, same thing with Fight Club. There are movies that I don't think
they need to see, and, yes, I'm the one making that decision.. Kill Bill
was a movie I don't think *I* needed to see! We watch those movies in
our room with the door closed. In the past we would have watched
something like that after they went to bed, but because our kids no
longer have a bedtime, they're still awake. We just point that out and
remind them that they're free to watch something else downstairs, play
the computer, play in the playroom, any number of other things, and
they're fine with that because it doesn't happen very often. They
realize that we're not telling them no just for the sake of controlling
but because it's something that is genuinely too much for them.

The gradual part is really important, I think. Several months ago, I
made an analogy to someone who was throwing off controls left and right
and whose children didn't quite know what to do with the new freedom. I
suggested that it might be a lot like being in a closet and having
someone suddenly fling the door open wide, letting flood in the very
bright light outside and how much that must hurt their eyes! It's not
about flinging the door open as quickly as you can just because it's
been closed for so long; it's more about gradually opening the door,
using your children's comfort levels to guide you. Like several of the
experienced folks here often say, it's not about never saying no but
about saying yes more often.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

averyschmidt

> But, our opportunities to watch these 'adult' films
> are getting fewer, so we are wondering 1. what films
> can we now watch with our children in the room and 2.
> When can we watch certain types of films with our
> children in the room (whether it's what age, or what
> developmental stage they're at).

I remember when my children were younger that we watched fewer
movies that were "adult" or inappropriate for babies and toddlers
for a while, and if there was something we *really* wanted to see we
might stay up unusually late to watch it. (Even children who don't
seem to sleep much- like my oldest- sleep *some* of the time. :-))

> It's hard for me to accept that all unschooling
> philosophy is applicable to all children of all ages.
> I feel like some unschooling philosophy is appropriate
> for older children and not for younger. and in my
> case, younger means 3 not 9. I have been looking for
> an outlet to discuss issues with this younger age
> group and have found it challenging.

I don't think it's that unschooling philosophy isn't applicable to
all children- more that it looks different at different ages. Birth
order also figures in a lot.
It was very easy for me to tailor my first son's environment to
be "age appropriate"- meaning the happiest and safest it could be
for a baby/young toddler.
Then my third son was born when his brothers were 6 and 4, and
suddenly there were little lego pieces on the floor in the path of a
crawling baby, etc. My first son listened to children's music at
age 5 (like Raffi), and my present 5yo likes Blink 182 and Green Day.
Some things I ask my older sons to do/watch/play in their own rooms,
or when their brother's sleeping, and they understand that since
considering the needs and feelings of a little brother has been a
part of their life since *they* were little.

> Although I have
> gained a wealth of knowledge from this group, and
> although I know some families on this group have
> children around my childrens' ages, it seems like the
> majority of the discussion is geared toward the older
> child. Which is fine, but I could use more discussion
> toward the very young child.

I think you'd get a lot out of the preschool folder of the
unschooling boards when it gets back up.
There are lots of archived conversations to read, and you could get
some new conversations started.

> So, for me and my child, it seems right to provide and
> withold (by not giving the choice) certain movies that
> do not seem appropriate to their psychological and
> emotional development.

There's a big difference, IMO, between saying "here's this movie
that your Dad and I love but you can't see it because you're too
little" and simply keeping the movies entirely out of their
consciousness- to the extent that it's possible. Then it won't even
be an issue.

> It's not so much that I would be uncomfortable with my
> son watching certain images as I would be concerned
> that he would not understand them or may want to try
> to imitate them.

Personally I think there are some images that just don't need to be
inside a baby's head if it's possible for us to keep them out for a
while longer. Scenes from the Sopranos would be an example, so
would the evening news.

My 2 cents. :-)

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/18/04 2:23:52 AM, jenneferh2000@... writes:

<< Although posted under a different thread, and although
it seems to contradict her earlier comment about
"Innocence being ignorance dressed in a frilly dress",
this statement by Sandra Dodd, and a response by
another poster rings true to my feelings: >>

That wasn't my comment, the frilly dress thing.
I don't do frilly dresses.

-=-So, for me and my child, it seems right to provide and
withold (by not giving the choice) certain movies that
do not seem appropriate to their psychological and
emotional development. -=-

I think you're misunderstanding what we mean by "giving the choice."

It's not "THE" choice. It's choice.

If there is a movie about which a child has no interest and no knowledge,
nobody's saying it's a parent's duty to describe it to them, and ask if they
might like to watch it now.

If your DVD or video player has a "pause" button, use it if a child come in
during a rough scene in a movie. Talk to the child. Go see what she needs.
Find her something better to do, or watch your movie later.

One of the many wonders of video is the movie doesn't need to be watched all
at once. And about TV shows, tape them. If you watch while you're taping
and you're interrupted, you know it it will still be there. If you watch and
finish without interruption, wind back and use that tape next time.

-=- I am happy to keep my 3 year
old as 'innocent' as possible because I do believe
there are some things he does not need to know or
worry about- yet. (For example, rape, murder,
abuse...) -=-

I don't think anyone will disagree with you at all about that, just about the
idea that the parents should have a policy of control. n naturally that young
children are sheltered, withtout the parent feeling she created that safety
by making all the decisions and controlling her children.

-=-At the same time I do know there will be a
time he will be mature enough to digest all that.
And, I guess, I will just have to cue into his
development to determine that as I'm sure as he gets
older he will be able to provide me with feedback as
well.-=-

You definitely should cue into his development.
Definitely.
Unschooling doesn't work when parents are expecting their children to mature
the way the book said instead of really knowing what their children are
knowing and thinking as the days unfold.

-=-And, I guess, I will just have to cue into his
development to determine that-=-

The last phrase I think you can come to dispense with.
You won't need to determine when he is old enough for something. He can
determine that. Parents can learn to be prepared to change the station, distract
them, remind them it's fiction, or whatever, instead of making a
pre-determined flat "yes" or "no" about a whole genre of entertainment.

It's hard to describe, but it's much easier than all the analytical thinking
people are describing.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/18/04 5:27:49 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< I found that when I accepted that was the way life would be for a while,
that I really looked forward to kids movies because I was sort of revisiting
childhood through my daughter's delight and didn't miss the adult movies as
much. >>

True too!!

My husband and I knew ALL the kid-movies and characters in those days.

Holly and I passed by the Disney Store the other day at the mall, and there
was a big poster of Princess Diaries II in the window. Now that will generate
NO cool stuffed animals or sing-along tapes whatsoever.

I told her I was really glad that when Kirby was little we got to have Little
Mermaid and Aladdin.

Nowadays, I get some of my adult movie experience from recommendations Kirby
and Marty make, and that's fine with me.

As to sex in movies, there are many different levels of that, too.
If in Four Weddings and a Funeral, two people wake up in the same bed in the
morning, the kids know nothing. If two people give each other the eye and go
upstairs, kids know nothing. There are sex scenes that are not going to
mean a thing to a child ("toucha touch me/creature of the night", for example).
There are sex scenes I wouldn't put the pause on if Kirby or Marty came
along, just because I wouldn't be crazy about them seeing me see it. They're
practically grown men. I'd probably pause it if ANYone else came in the room.
That would be (thinking of what was in my head while I wrote that) Last Tango in
Paris, or Unfaithful, or other explicit rough stuff or kinky stuff.

If a couple is in a bed or on a couch and the guy is on top of the woman, I
can calmly say it's a kind of kissing and hugging moms and dads do. If
someone's up against the wall squealing, while it MIGHT be what moms and dads do
sometimes if they're lucky, I don't want to have to answer too many questions
about that.

Monday Holly and I went to see The Stepford Wives. There's a sex scene off
camera. What it is is three main characters at the bottom of the stairs making
facial reactions to the sounds of sex upstairs. It's very funny, really, and
I don't think it will hurt a twelve year old girl in any way to know that
sometimes sex is noisy and fun.

It wouldn't take anyone here thirty seconds to go to google.and find a day's
worth of reading from other homeschoolers (probably Christian and male) that
said it would ruin your children's lives, marriages and eternal souls to see a
movie where any unmarried couple so much as kisses. I'm not saying what I
have experienced and "allowed" is the only one true way. I'm saying my kids
are not nasty perverts, at 12, 15 and 18 even though they have not been
unnaturally sheltered. I still shelter them sometimes, but it's a case-by-case thing,
and the edges of what I think they probably wouldn't want to see have moved
gradually and constantly.

Sandra

Elizabeth Hill

** It's hard for me to accept that all unschooling
philosophy is applicable to all children of all ages.
I feel like some unschooling philosophy is appropriate
for older children and not for younger. and in my
case, younger means 3 not 9. **


Many people define unschooling as starting when your kids are old enough
to not start school, that is they are old enough for Kindergarden or
First Grade, but don't go.

I know that this is going to sound puzzling, but the unschooling
philosophy is not a strict set of rules wherein active posters here tell
you exactly what to do. When people are troubled and stuck, especially
with an unschooling issue, then people on the list do make suggestions.
But ultimately it comes down to each parent's own judgement. Rules
don't supercede judgement. And fundamentally, unschooling is not about
rules.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/18/04 8:06:09 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:

<< There's a big difference, IMO, between saying "here's this movie

that your Dad and I love but you can't see it because you're too

little" and simply keeping the movies entirely out of their

consciousness- to the extent that it's possible. Then it won't even

be an issue.

>>

It's hard to describe this. It's a kind of environment-childproofing.

When we talk about giving them food freedoms it doesn't mean of all the foods
in the world at any moment, it means don't tell them they can't have more,
don't make them eat spinach. I means lighten up, and arrange a house in which
they can find something to eat. Don't put food right in front of them and say
"Don't touch it until 5:00" or "This is for me, and you can't even taste it,
ever."

With bedtimes, it's not "How about you try to stay up until the sun rises?
I'm going to bed."

With movies, it's not "You're too young for this whole shelf of movies, so
never touch them." It's give them lots of choices among things you know they
would like. And watch them with them. And if they hate Sesame Street (which
Holly did, until she was 9 or so), don't push it. Once she started liking
Sesame Street she wanted to know all about the history of the show, and will still
watch old tapes, listen to cassette tapes from the 70's, wants to learn all
the harmonies of "One Little Star" from Follow that Bird... Immersion.

She watched Stand By Me the other day. When she was little and said "I hate
Big Bird," she used to watch Stand By Me. It's based on a Stephen King story,
it's got 'big boys,' fear, death... It's probably the favorite movie of
her whole life. The other day she said, "I just got this part," about
something, and she asked me what "stormed the beach at Normandy" meant. She had
paused it that day and said "What does he mean by this?" It was the voiceover
commenting that the dog had taught him the diffence between myth and reality (don't
know the exact quote). I started talking to her about myth and she said,
"No, I know what myth means, but why did he say that?" So she ran it back and I
pointed out that their belief that the dog was told to 'sic balls' was just
myth. All the dog wanted was for them to get out of the fence, because as soon
as he was on one side the dog on the other, the dog lay down happily and just
looked at him. So it was a visual indication, not words.

I could've told her nine years ago that that movie was not good for a little
girl. But that movie has been very good for her. And for me? A young,
posturing Keifer Sutherland, every time she watches it. <g> If she doesn't fully
appreciate that part of the show, she might in a few more years. It's
somewhat like sex without the presence of bed, couch or female. But if she doesn't
get it, she doesn't.

Oh. She also asked me that day to find "The Body" and read it so I can tell
her what's different. I did that for her with The Green Mile and What's
Eating Gilbert Grape.

Sandra

Elizabeth Hill

** As to sex in movies, there are many different levels of that, too.
If in Four Weddings and a Funeral, two people wake up in the same bed in
the
morning, the kids know nothing. **

True. I remember watching this when my son was younger and noticing the
humorous use of the F*** expletive, about 25 times in the first scene.
It may even be the first word in the movie.

So, IF someone posted here that this movie is the movie that their kid
wanted to see, I would mention the language used, and probably the scene
where Andie McDowell counts off her previous lovers.

I really like this movie, and have watched it several times, so my son
has probably seen ALL of it, even though movies about weddings are not
his natual inclination.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/18/04 10:53:24 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< True. I remember watching this when my son was younger and noticing the

humorous use of the F*** expletive, about 25 times in the first scene.

It may even be the first word in the movie. >>

We decided years ago not to care about that.
If we hadn't, my kids wouldn't know the words to the South Park movie musical
songs, nor would Kirby and Marty have turned me on to Eddie Izzard. They
would have had to hide the fact that they had listened to it themselves, as
f***ful as it is.

[anyone who hates that word, just go to the next post and quit reading]

The information surrounding that word, whether it's casual drama or crazed
comedians like Robin Williams or George Carlin, is more important than living a
life without ever hearing anyone utter the sound the word "fuck" makes."

That doesn't mean it's okay to use it as a horrible insult or in a nasty
sexual way. Any words can be used to insult and embarrass people. My kids have al
ways been careful not to be horrible to other people. Again, it's too often
for me (for my tastes) a matter of people not wanting to really think, but just
to make rules. The word itself doesn't hurt anyone. In the words of Eric
Cartman,

"What's the big deal? It doesn't hurt anybody! Fuck fuckedy fuck fuck fuck."

When looking for a site to cut and paste the Cartman quote from, I noticed
something. The people who had quoted him were using the f word for shock
value, and it seemed to me that they must really have been forbidden to use it at
home for them to have blogs and websites so saturated in it.

Meanwhile my kids can go a long time without using the word, because when
they do use it peopla powerfully horribly dangerous entity of some sort.

Sandra

Danielle Conger

<>Sandra wrote: We decided years ago not to care about that.
If we hadn't, my kids wouldn't know the words to the South Park movie
musical
songs, nor would Kirby and Marty have turned me on to Eddie Izzard. They
would have had to hide the fact that they had listened to it themselves, as
f***ful as it is.
============

It's become really obvious how many curse words there are in Men in
Black I and II since we've been watching them with the kids (7, 5 and
4), though not f%#k. The only one they've asked about is d*ck, which is
also in X-Men. We've just matter of factly told them what it means and
said that we don't really use those words because they may make some
people upset, for the same reason we don't say "oh my god." They seem
pretty satisfied with that, though we have been on a big "butt" kick *g*
since seeing Rugrats Go Wild! They think that's awfully fun to say I
guess because we've always said tush.

--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

Dawn Adams

someone writes:
<< Although posted under a different thread, and although
it seems to contradict her earlier comment about
"Innocence being ignorance dressed in a frilly dress",
this statement by Sandra Dodd, and a response by
another poster rings true to my feelings: >>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sandra writes:
>That wasn't my comment, the frilly dress thing.
>I don't do frilly dresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It was me that made that comment. I did one frilly dress in my life but it was the fact that the skirt swirled up and out when I spun that made me love it, not the frills.
Dawn (in NS)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie

***The only one they've asked about is d*ck, which is also in X-Men. We've
just matter of factly told them what it means and said that we don't really
use those words because they may make some people upset, for the same
reason we don't say "oh my god." They seem pretty satisfied with that,
though we have been on a big "butt" kick *g* since seeing Rugrats Go Wild!
They think that's awfully fun to say I guess because we've always said
tush.***

The day after we first watched X-Men, I heard the boys out playing and one
of them shouted "Holy shit". When they came in I mentioned it to them and
said they should probably be careful where they said shit (I explained what
it meant) as a lot of people would be offended by it and I didn't want them
to lose friends because of it. (their best friends' parents are conservative
Christians, no TV.......)

They both looked at me like in bewilderment and said, "Mum, Jess said Holy
ship" Oh! So I guess if I ever hear them say shit (I haven't yet) I can't
blame it on the TV. <g> Jacob once announced at a friend's house that he
knew a swear word. Our friend asked him what it was and Jacob said (he had
been watching the Princess Bride) 'son of a pitch'.

The kids do say bloody hell, just like Ron Weasley says it and they like to
remember every insult Fred and George have ever said. But anything else
seems to go over the heads. They're unfamiliar words and they seem to slip
by mostly unnoticed by them.

Julie

Elizabeth Hill

** The day after we first watched X-Men, I heard the boys out playing
and one
of them shouted "Holy shit". When they came in I mentioned it to them and
said they should probably be careful where they said shit...**

** They both looked at me like in bewilderment and said, "Mum, Jess said
Holy
ship"**


Today I was watching an edited/altered showing of 10 Things I Hate About
You, and unless I have a serious earwax problem, I swear instead of
saying "the shit hath hitteth the fan" (faux shakesperian), they
replaced the word "shit" with "squid"! LOL

Now there's an image I won't soon forget!

(Apologies to anyone squeamish about sh*t OR squid.)

Betsy

** and they like to
remember every insult Fred and George have ever said.**

Fred and George Weasley should be in the unschooling hall of fame. <g>

Fetteroll

on 8/18/04 10:53 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:

> If in Four Weddings and a Funeral, two people wake up in the same bed in the
> morning, the kids know nothing.

Kat (12 at the time) and a friend (11) were discussing The Charlie's Angels
movie and her friend asked why Drew Barrymore's character didn't have any
clothes on. Kat suggested maybe she was hot.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/18/2004 10:15:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
danielle.conger@... writes:

> Work on finding more ways to say yes, more
> ways for your children to control their own environment and you will
> begin to see all the wonderful aspects of unschooling.
>

You know, this is a wonderful way to state this aspect of unschooling-it gets
easier for me to do this every day, because it makes me feel SO good as a
person and as a parent to BE able to say yes! Saying no and punishing made me
feel... stern... proper (parent-wise)... and sad... If a punishment I gave made
Wyl cry, I would sit by the monitor and listen to him cry so I could go through
the punishment "with" him. Now, I get to say YES-and his feelings rarely get
hurt, but when they do, we can talk about it! It is very liberating and has
made things somewhat smoother around here! Dave doesn't quite get it, yet-but
he's not here all day long, every day, either. I'm guessing it will take more
time with him.

Peace,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]