Re: No plastic?
Holly Furgason
From what I understand, natural materials absorb the child worth and
reflect it back. I haven't been following the discussion due to
computer problems but I almost sent my oldest in a Waldorf school in
Wilton NH where we were living at the time just 1/2 mile down the
road from a Wladorf community. I used to do a Waldorf playgroup at
my house.
I had learned about Waldorf while I was living in CT and liked what I
heard especially but once I saw it in action, I wasn't too
impressed. It is very controlling from what the children can draw or
paint to the games they play, the toys you use, the stories they hear
and foods they eat. Like all controlling environments, there seemed
to be a lot of unhappiness but it was subtle. School is school.
We had a woman do a workshop at HUG conference once on Waldorf
watercolor painting. She was upset because we wouldn't limit the
ages and there was everyone in there from pre-schoolers to adults.
It went smoothly and, truth be told, the adults had the most fun. It
was a popular workshop but she wouldn't come back because we wouldn't
restrict the ages.
I liked and still like some of the Waldorf ideas. We have beeswax
and the girls still have their Waldorf dolls. They played with
acorns and pinecones, we worked a lot with wool and I always try to
live near water. :-) The Forest Children is our favorite picture
book and I like the sequential life it illustrates.
The only way I could see it fit in with unschooling is to do what we
did and have the adult whose interested do the Waldorf thing and let
the kids join in activities if they want. Unfortunatly, that is
against Waldorf philosophy and leads to Barbies and television.
Holly (who never danced around the Maypole)
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Unschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school
--- In [email protected], Dianne
<angels_heart82@y...> wrote:
reflect it back. I haven't been following the discussion due to
computer problems but I almost sent my oldest in a Waldorf school in
Wilton NH where we were living at the time just 1/2 mile down the
road from a Wladorf community. I used to do a Waldorf playgroup at
my house.
I had learned about Waldorf while I was living in CT and liked what I
heard especially but once I saw it in action, I wasn't too
impressed. It is very controlling from what the children can draw or
paint to the games they play, the toys you use, the stories they hear
and foods they eat. Like all controlling environments, there seemed
to be a lot of unhappiness but it was subtle. School is school.
We had a woman do a workshop at HUG conference once on Waldorf
watercolor painting. She was upset because we wouldn't limit the
ages and there was everyone in there from pre-schoolers to adults.
It went smoothly and, truth be told, the adults had the most fun. It
was a popular workshop but she wouldn't come back because we wouldn't
restrict the ages.
I liked and still like some of the Waldorf ideas. We have beeswax
and the girls still have their Waldorf dolls. They played with
acorns and pinecones, we worked a lot with wool and I always try to
live near water. :-) The Forest Children is our favorite picture
book and I like the sequential life it illustrates.
The only way I could see it fit in with unschooling is to do what we
did and have the adult whose interested do the Waldorf thing and let
the kids join in activities if they want. Unfortunatly, that is
against Waldorf philosophy and leads to Barbies and television.
Holly (who never danced around the Maypole)
2 COOL 4 SCHOOL
Unschooling t-shirts and more!
http://www.cafepress.com/2cool4school
--- In [email protected], Dianne
<angels_heart82@y...> wrote:
> <<I just don't get the no plastic thing. No
> critisizing here but rather wonderig why no plastic>>
>
> I didn't make the post about no plastic so I may be
> wrong, but I think it is an environmental concern, the
> way plastic is made, the chemicals involved, the
> polluting of the environment because most plastic is
> not biodegradable and once it is made and discarded it
> sits in the landfill forever.
>
>
>
> =====
> Dianne in Tacoma, WA
> Well behaved women don't make history.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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Holly Furgason
--- In [email protected], "Holly Furgason"
<unschooler@s...> wrote:
important is that it gives life to the doll. I once heard a Waldorf
person say that a child needn't give up her plastic doll- the child's
love for the doll had redeemed it.
Holly
<unschooler@s...> wrote:
> From what I understand, natural materials absorb the child worthand
> reflect it back.Okay, it's late. I meant "the child's warmth..." The reason this is
important is that it gives life to the doll. I once heard a Waldorf
person say that a child needn't give up her plastic doll- the child's
love for the doll had redeemed it.
Holly
Laura Bourdo
<<To help students feel more at ease, a Waldorf school is "all
natural" --literally. Nothing in the classroom is made of plastic, because
it's not a natural substance. The children have wood stumps, they use
beeswax crayons instead of Crayola, and other natural materials such as silk
and wool. According to Johnson, the children's mental development benefits
from the feel, sight and smell of natural materials.>>
From a Waldorf internet site.
Laura B.
**********************************
natural" --literally. Nothing in the classroom is made of plastic, because
it's not a natural substance. The children have wood stumps, they use
beeswax crayons instead of Crayola, and other natural materials such as silk
and wool. According to Johnson, the children's mental development benefits
from the feel, sight and smell of natural materials.>>
From a Waldorf internet site.
Laura B.
**********************************
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:13:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dianne <angels_heart82@...>
> Subject: No plastic?
>
> <<I just don't get the no plastic thing. No
> critisizing here but rather wonderig why no plastic>>
>
> I didn't make the post about no plastic so I may be
> wrong, but I think it is an environmental concern, the
> way plastic is made, the chemicals involved, the
> polluting of the environment because most plastic is
> not biodegradable and once it is made and discarded it
> sits in the landfill forever.
>
>
>
> =====
> Dianne in Tacoma, WA
> Well behaved women don't make history.
>
Dawn Adams
Dianne writes:
I think the original poster said her kids were happy with all her choices but I'm suspicious of those claims in general. My mom could've said I was happy too but she had a way of discussing things and presenting ideas that were leadeing..'You don't want that plastic junk, do you?", and I'd know what I was supposed to say. We did get plastic toys but I remember lusting over stuff my mom pooh-poohed. I wonder how many times we, as moms, kid ourselves that way? I know I have in the past. Much less since I came to unschooling however.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I didn't make the post about no plastic so I may beI was thinking that after I posed my no plastic question. So...Could a person address those concerns by sticking to used toys? Then, you're not only not supporting the company that makes them but giving them a use after the original owner has grown tired of them. Not that they're a must buy but if a child wants one.
>wrong, but I think it is an environmental concern, the
>way plastic is made, the chemicals involved, the
>polluting of the environment because most plastic is
>not biodegradable and once it is made and discarded it
>sits in the landfill forever.
I think the original poster said her kids were happy with all her choices but I'm suspicious of those claims in general. My mom could've said I was happy too but she had a way of discussing things and presenting ideas that were leadeing..'You don't want that plastic junk, do you?", and I'd know what I was supposed to say. We did get plastic toys but I remember lusting over stuff my mom pooh-poohed. I wonder how many times we, as moms, kid ourselves that way? I know I have in the past. Much less since I came to unschooling however.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/2004 1:43:49 AM Central Standard Time,
unschooler@... writes:
We had a woman do a workshop at HUG conference once on Waldorf
watercolor painting. She was upset because we wouldn't limit the
ages and there was everyone in there from pre-schoolers to adults.
It went smoothly and, truth be told, the adults had the most fun. It
was a popular workshop but she wouldn't come back because we wouldn't
restrict the ages.
~~~
I attended a Waldorf form drawing seminar at the Rethinking Education
conference. I really really liked it. I liked the way the learning of it included
the entire body. There is something soothing about drawing the forms.
But still, I know Waldorf families (most of them in isolation from other
Waldorf families) and where they bump up against unschoolers or other families,
their kids are chomping at the bit to do the things the other kids do (play
video games, watch a movie, mine the plastic weapon collection). I like
hanging out at their houses because there is always some level of "natural" that I
can't recreate in my home. But I tell ya, Will doesn't go over there and
lament that the TV has a silk over it, or that there's no X-box. He gets out
the wooden blocks and has a good time playing outside.
II'd have a hard time with any system that is difficult to pronounce,
anyway. ;)anthrosophomorphism? anthroposophomorphradite? I can't even remember
what the syllables are any more. lol.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooler@... writes:
We had a woman do a workshop at HUG conference once on Waldorf
watercolor painting. She was upset because we wouldn't limit the
ages and there was everyone in there from pre-schoolers to adults.
It went smoothly and, truth be told, the adults had the most fun. It
was a popular workshop but she wouldn't come back because we wouldn't
restrict the ages.
~~~
I attended a Waldorf form drawing seminar at the Rethinking Education
conference. I really really liked it. I liked the way the learning of it included
the entire body. There is something soothing about drawing the forms.
But still, I know Waldorf families (most of them in isolation from other
Waldorf families) and where they bump up against unschoolers or other families,
their kids are chomping at the bit to do the things the other kids do (play
video games, watch a movie, mine the plastic weapon collection). I like
hanging out at their houses because there is always some level of "natural" that I
can't recreate in my home. But I tell ya, Will doesn't go over there and
lament that the TV has a silk over it, or that there's no X-box. He gets out
the wooden blocks and has a good time playing outside.
II'd have a hard time with any system that is difficult to pronounce,
anyway. ;)anthrosophomorphism? anthroposophomorphradite? I can't even remember
what the syllables are any more. lol.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/8/04 9:46:47 PM, angels_heart82@... writes:
<< because most plastic is
not biodegradable and once it is made and discarded it
sits in the landfill forever. >>
Forever's a long time. There are plastic toys that don't survive being in
the yard in New Mexico, and once it dries out, it will break down into pieces
as tiny as sand. Sand isn't biodegradable either, and the desert is full of
it. Iron, in our yard. The kids pick it up with magnets after it rains and
the water runs off. That's not biodegradable. Glass? well... it turns back
to the sand it started off as. Metal? Rusts away eventually.
"Biodegradable" is a buzzword with a lot of "oooh!" appeal, and I'm sorry
styrofoam was ever invented, but not all plastic is evil. Much of what we use
plastic for would have been glass or metal, and their creation, transportion
and disposal aren't all air and fairies.
And for people to invent something 50 years ago and then declare that it will
sit in a landfill "forever" (the inventors probably aren't the same ones who
declared "forever") is shortsighted and arrogant.
What's the early-plastic stuff they used to make brushes and mirror-frames
out of and knife handles and such? Bakelite! People HOPED that would last a
long time. It's falling apart.
Foam, as used in some musical instrument cases, cut to the shape of each
piece. Also used in auto padding, like inside ceiling liners. Maybe not
everywhere, but in the desert that seems to last 20 some years and then turn to dust.
Rubber itself is tree stuff that turns back to dirt stuff. I took a
doorbell apart yesterday, cleaned the parts. It won't go back together. The little
rubber holders for the chimes are too dried up and old. Maybe the seals from
syringes would work. Those aren't rubber anymore, I don't think, but some
kind of plastic.
Archeologists will know more about what's biodegradable than modern
pop-ecologists will. Museum curators will know more about what can be kept and what
can't. The fingers are falling off my Tiny Tears doll. She's not 50 years
old. Rubber, though.
Auto restoration people will know what lasts on a car. Seats, of 1920's
cars? Horsehair and rotten upholstery have to be replaced. Dashboards of 60's
cars? Not in the desert.
If plastic lasted forever, houses could be made of it! Bridges.
Sandra
<< because most plastic is
not biodegradable and once it is made and discarded it
sits in the landfill forever. >>
Forever's a long time. There are plastic toys that don't survive being in
the yard in New Mexico, and once it dries out, it will break down into pieces
as tiny as sand. Sand isn't biodegradable either, and the desert is full of
it. Iron, in our yard. The kids pick it up with magnets after it rains and
the water runs off. That's not biodegradable. Glass? well... it turns back
to the sand it started off as. Metal? Rusts away eventually.
"Biodegradable" is a buzzword with a lot of "oooh!" appeal, and I'm sorry
styrofoam was ever invented, but not all plastic is evil. Much of what we use
plastic for would have been glass or metal, and their creation, transportion
and disposal aren't all air and fairies.
And for people to invent something 50 years ago and then declare that it will
sit in a landfill "forever" (the inventors probably aren't the same ones who
declared "forever") is shortsighted and arrogant.
What's the early-plastic stuff they used to make brushes and mirror-frames
out of and knife handles and such? Bakelite! People HOPED that would last a
long time. It's falling apart.
Foam, as used in some musical instrument cases, cut to the shape of each
piece. Also used in auto padding, like inside ceiling liners. Maybe not
everywhere, but in the desert that seems to last 20 some years and then turn to dust.
Rubber itself is tree stuff that turns back to dirt stuff. I took a
doorbell apart yesterday, cleaned the parts. It won't go back together. The little
rubber holders for the chimes are too dried up and old. Maybe the seals from
syringes would work. Those aren't rubber anymore, I don't think, but some
kind of plastic.
Archeologists will know more about what's biodegradable than modern
pop-ecologists will. Museum curators will know more about what can be kept and what
can't. The fingers are falling off my Tiny Tears doll. She's not 50 years
old. Rubber, though.
Auto restoration people will know what lasts on a car. Seats, of 1920's
cars? Horsehair and rotten upholstery have to be replaced. Dashboards of 60's
cars? Not in the desert.
If plastic lasted forever, houses could be made of it! Bridges.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/04 1:51:05 AM, unschooler@... writes:
<< I once heard a Waldorf
person say that a child needn't give up her plastic doll- the child's
love for the doll had redeemed it. >>
<<Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it,
Redeemed by the blood of the. . .>> WAIT!!!!!!
That's interesting.
Love infusion.
I think the Hearthsong catalog is really fun, and we have stuff from there.
But you can adopt the stuff without the religion, and you can use beeswax in a
color your soul might not be ready for, if your soul subscribed to Steiner's
narrow views.
http://hearthsong.com/hearthsong/welcome.asp?sc=1005&body_sc=1005&occ=1005&fir
stEntry=Y
I used hearthsong.com and got there. Some really nice toys.
That water stuff looks like....
Well I guess a wooden slip'n'slide wouldn't be any good.
Sandra
<< I once heard a Waldorf
person say that a child needn't give up her plastic doll- the child's
love for the doll had redeemed it. >>
<<Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it,
Redeemed by the blood of the. . .>> WAIT!!!!!!
That's interesting.
Love infusion.
I think the Hearthsong catalog is really fun, and we have stuff from there.
But you can adopt the stuff without the religion, and you can use beeswax in a
color your soul might not be ready for, if your soul subscribed to Steiner's
narrow views.
http://hearthsong.com/hearthsong/welcome.asp?sc=1005&body_sc=1005&occ=1005&fir
stEntry=Y
I used hearthsong.com and got there. Some really nice toys.
That water stuff looks like....
Well I guess a wooden slip'n'slide wouldn't be any good.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/04 7:00:15 AM, tuckervill2@... writes:
<< anthroposophomorphradite? >>
That sounds like something nasty that glows in the dark.
<< anthroposophomorphradite? >>
That sounds like something nasty that glows in the dark.
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/9/2004 10:54:11 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it,
Redeemed by the blood of the. . .>> WAIT!!!!!!
~~
Stop putting those hymns back in my head!!!
Maybe I wouldn't suck at Encore after all.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it,
Redeemed by the blood of the. . .>> WAIT!!!!!!
~~
Stop putting those hymns back in my head!!!
Maybe I wouldn't suck at Encore after all.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
--aj
>Your doctor can prescribe a cream if it starts to spread...
> In a message dated 8/9/04 7:00:15 AM, tuckervill2@a... writes:
>
> << anthroposophomorphradite? >>
>
> That sounds like something nasty that glows in the dark.
--aj