problems with foster/adopted siblings
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/18/04 8:02:09 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< I think it's selfish for a parent to take loving energy away from the
children they are obligated to nurture (their children by birth), by adopting or
fostering children that bring negative energy into the home and take too much
of the parents energy. >>
My parents raised two cousins, about the age of me and my sister. In a two
bedroom house, six people. We ended up using a big closet for a bedroom, an
unfinished canning room for a bedroom, the dining room for a bedroom...
One of the cousins was okay. She had been hanging out with us a lot since
she was four, and came to live fulltime when she was eight, nearly nine. Her
little sister, though, was and continues to be a horror. They were my mother's
older sister's two youngest of five.
My dad was really nice about it, and generous, and fair, and sweet.
It totally changed the life my sister and I could have and would have had
otherwise, though.
Both those other girls are now alcoholics and drug addicts/users. Both their
parents had been alcoholics. I'm not and haven't been, my sister was and
stopped.
My mom was trying to do a good thing, and in lots of ways she did. But
before many years had passed, my mom was nearly as deeply into alcohol as her
sister had been, and when the younger cousin was 14 the marriage split up and she
ended up back with more-crazy relatives, sniffing paint and stealing stereos in
Texas under the tutelage of another of my mother's alcoholic siblings.
In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a mother
has the vague nagging desire to do more for more children, I recommend she focus
that toward her OWN children, and maybe add more when they're up and out.
Sandra
<< I think it's selfish for a parent to take loving energy away from the
children they are obligated to nurture (their children by birth), by adopting or
fostering children that bring negative energy into the home and take too much
of the parents energy. >>
My parents raised two cousins, about the age of me and my sister. In a two
bedroom house, six people. We ended up using a big closet for a bedroom, an
unfinished canning room for a bedroom, the dining room for a bedroom...
One of the cousins was okay. She had been hanging out with us a lot since
she was four, and came to live fulltime when she was eight, nearly nine. Her
little sister, though, was and continues to be a horror. They were my mother's
older sister's two youngest of five.
My dad was really nice about it, and generous, and fair, and sweet.
It totally changed the life my sister and I could have and would have had
otherwise, though.
Both those other girls are now alcoholics and drug addicts/users. Both their
parents had been alcoholics. I'm not and haven't been, my sister was and
stopped.
My mom was trying to do a good thing, and in lots of ways she did. But
before many years had passed, my mom was nearly as deeply into alcohol as her
sister had been, and when the younger cousin was 14 the marriage split up and she
ended up back with more-crazy relatives, sniffing paint and stealing stereos in
Texas under the tutelage of another of my mother's alcoholic siblings.
In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a mother
has the vague nagging desire to do more for more children, I recommend she focus
that toward her OWN children, and maybe add more when they're up and out.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<<< In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a
mother
Or at least make sure that life is on an even keel, that normal life doesn't
give you craziness, that your family is really solid and that all parties
are on the same page prior to even considering it.
Julie S.
mother
> has the vague nagging desire to do more for more children, I recommend shefocus
> that toward her OWN children, and maybe add more when they're up andout.>>>>
Or at least make sure that life is on an even keel, that normal life doesn't
give you craziness, that your family is really solid and that all parties
are on the same page prior to even considering it.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] problems with foster/adopted siblings
>
> In a message dated 5/18/04 8:02:09 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
>
> << I think it's selfish for a parent to take loving energy away from the
> children they are obligated to nurture (their children by birth), by
adopting or
> fostering children that bring negative energy into the home and take too
much
> of the parents energy. >>
>
> My parents raised two cousins, about the age of me and my sister. In a
two
> bedroom house, six people. We ended up using a big closet for a bedroom,
an
> unfinished canning room for a bedroom, the dining room for a bedroom...
>
> One of the cousins was okay. She had been hanging out with us a lot since
> she was four, and came to live fulltime when she was eight, nearly nine.
Her
> little sister, though, was and continues to be a horror. They were my
mother's
> older sister's two youngest of five.
>
> My dad was really nice about it, and generous, and fair, and sweet.
>
> It totally changed the life my sister and I could have and would have had
> otherwise, though.
>
> Both those other girls are now alcoholics and drug addicts/users. Both
their
> parents had been alcoholics. I'm not and haven't been, my sister was and
> stopped.
>
> My mom was trying to do a good thing, and in lots of ways she did. But
> before many years had passed, my mom was nearly as deeply into alcohol as
her
> sister had been, and when the younger cousin was 14 the marriage split up
and she
> ended up back with more-crazy relatives, sniffing paint and stealing
stereos in
> Texas under the tutelage of another of my mother's alcoholic siblings.
>
> In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a mother
> has the vague nagging desire to do more for more children, I recommend she
focus
> that toward her OWN children, and maybe add more when they're up and out.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/18/2004 5:14:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jnjstau@... writes:
Or at least make sure that life is on an even keel, that normal life doesn't
give you craziness, that your family is really solid and that all parties
are on the same page prior to even considering it.<<<<
Very good advice for getting a new puppy as well! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jnjstau@... writes:
Or at least make sure that life is on an even keel, that normal life doesn't
give you craziness, that your family is really solid and that all parties
are on the same page prior to even considering it.<<<<
Very good advice for getting a new puppy as well! <g>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/18/2004 5:14:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jnjstau@... writes:
<<<< In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a
mother
**********************************************
We have adopted 3 boys, and fostered as well. Another suggestion is to never
adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids out of their
birth order.
Although I HAVE adopted, and we foster, I have to agree with the statements
made. You HAVE to make sure your own kids are very grounded, self confident,
and doing well before adding other children. I think this is the only reason
we've been successful, and even so, it has not been without bumps in the road.
I give most of the credit to my biological children...they are unbelievably
giving, sharing, and caring kids. Good luck, and TONS of knowledge about
attachment disorders has also saved us.
And lastly, it should NEVER be entered into lightly, because if you change
your mind, or decide you can't do it, moving a child out of your home will only
harm them more, sometimes to the point of serious psychological problems
(attachment disorders, especially) that will be very hard to un-do.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jnjstau@... writes:
<<<< In our case maybe things couldn't have gone differently, but when a
mother
> has the vague nagging desire to do more for more children, I recommend shefocus
> that toward her OWN children, and maybe add more when they're up andout.>>>>
**********************************************
We have adopted 3 boys, and fostered as well. Another suggestion is to never
adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids out of their
birth order.
Although I HAVE adopted, and we foster, I have to agree with the statements
made. You HAVE to make sure your own kids are very grounded, self confident,
and doing well before adding other children. I think this is the only reason
we've been successful, and even so, it has not been without bumps in the road.
I give most of the credit to my biological children...they are unbelievably
giving, sharing, and caring kids. Good luck, and TONS of knowledge about
attachment disorders has also saved us.
And lastly, it should NEVER be entered into lightly, because if you change
your mind, or decide you can't do it, moving a child out of your home will only
harm them more, sometimes to the point of serious psychological problems
(attachment disorders, especially) that will be very hard to un-do.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/19/04 7:56:26 AM, CelticFrau@... writes:
<< Another suggestion is to never
adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids out of their
birth order. >>
Not "sort of." The difference between being the oldest and not being the
oldest is a big old absolute. And my sister went from younger of two to youngest
of four.
That wasn't an adoption. The kids kept their other relatives (half of whom
were also my relatives and their names and all, and I'm having a hard time
convincing whoever's keeping some online geneologies that they were NOT adopted.
It doesn't much matter now, but a hundred years from now there it will be,
like fact.
I think adopting children is a wonderful thing, and if people can afford it
(financially and emotionally and whichever other ways) it's great, but if the
"cost" comes out of the account of children you already have, that's not NEARLY
as good a deal.
Sandra
<< Another suggestion is to never
adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids out of their
birth order. >>
Not "sort of." The difference between being the oldest and not being the
oldest is a big old absolute. And my sister went from younger of two to youngest
of four.
That wasn't an adoption. The kids kept their other relatives (half of whom
were also my relatives and their names and all, and I'm having a hard time
convincing whoever's keeping some online geneologies that they were NOT adopted.
It doesn't much matter now, but a hundred years from now there it will be,
like fact.
I think adopting children is a wonderful thing, and if people can afford it
(financially and emotionally and whichever other ways) it's great, but if the
"cost" comes out of the account of children you already have, that's not NEARLY
as good a deal.
Sandra
~LilacMoon~
"sometimes to the point of serious psychological problems
(attachment disorders, especially) that will be very hard to un-do."
I needed to reply to this... if for no other reason to reiterate how difficult raising an attachment disordered child is..
I've lived life with an attachment disordered child. Its no picnic..
My fiance's son who is 9 left out house last November because we could not handle his behaviors any longer. He had been abused as a baby by his biological mother, deprived, and failed to form any bond to her. The state took him away from her when he was 4 and gave him to my fiance. His behaviors though kept getting worse. (they gave all three kids to him. The two girls were quickly taken by the state again because they were acting out too much because of their mother)
The things he did threatened our children, and myself. I can't tell you how many times I've been physically assulted by him. Our house destroyed. Animals abused. Locks on my bedroom door to keep him out. We went without food because he detroyed or ate it all. He urinated and defecated all over his room daily. No remorse. No empathy. Nothing. Just anger, sadness (though he didn't show it) and violence towards me...the Mom..
I love him...and I tried so hard to help him. We adhered to Nancy Thomas's books and videos. (When Love is Not Enough) and read everything we could about Reactive Attachment Disorder.. still, we couldn't stop the hurt inside him. Coudn't find a therapist that took Medicaid...an attachment therapist. Oh sure, we found lots of regular ones...but those don't work...
After countless lies to his teachers in school about not being fed, etc.. (a very common issue with RAD children is food) the state decided to take him and put him in foster care. They even had the nerve to say that his problems were because of us. My two biological kids disagree...and they are very happy with him out of the house now.
considering he has two older sisters, both RAD, ODD, ADHD, and one BPD and in residential treatment....and he was raised by the same mother ... I'm not surprised that he is hurt and I wanted him badly to get some help. Unfortunatly, they diagnose him with RAD but they won't help him. They just put him in a home like his sisters and work on behavioral problems...but not the real core problem. (his lack of attachment) I know, because his sisters have been gone for over 3 years now.
They will soon be terminating my fiance's parental rights because they say he doesn't know how to parent their "special needs"... yet they won't show him how.. they will take the time to show the foster parents and the adoption parents how they think it should be done though.. I wish the same consideration was given here...
It's been a long road for me, living 2 1/2 years with a child that has RAD. Theres been so many tears of frusteration, hurt, and anger. So many helpless nights..
I can finally breathe now. I am sad he is gone, but in a way I'm not. I know that I tried so hard to love him and help him...but it wasn't enough. He needs constant 1 on 1 attention and direction. And with two other kids I couldn't give him that. I tried so hard...
I saw his behaviors affecting everyone in the house, and even my relationship. We were all so tense...and scared all the time.
I'm hoping one day they will wake up and get him the help he needs and deserves. And if the day ever comes that he knocks on our door, we'll welcome him with open arms.
Sorry for this being so long, and thank you for reading.
Blessed be,
Ana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(attachment disorders, especially) that will be very hard to un-do."
I needed to reply to this... if for no other reason to reiterate how difficult raising an attachment disordered child is..
I've lived life with an attachment disordered child. Its no picnic..
My fiance's son who is 9 left out house last November because we could not handle his behaviors any longer. He had been abused as a baby by his biological mother, deprived, and failed to form any bond to her. The state took him away from her when he was 4 and gave him to my fiance. His behaviors though kept getting worse. (they gave all three kids to him. The two girls were quickly taken by the state again because they were acting out too much because of their mother)
The things he did threatened our children, and myself. I can't tell you how many times I've been physically assulted by him. Our house destroyed. Animals abused. Locks on my bedroom door to keep him out. We went without food because he detroyed or ate it all. He urinated and defecated all over his room daily. No remorse. No empathy. Nothing. Just anger, sadness (though he didn't show it) and violence towards me...the Mom..
I love him...and I tried so hard to help him. We adhered to Nancy Thomas's books and videos. (When Love is Not Enough) and read everything we could about Reactive Attachment Disorder.. still, we couldn't stop the hurt inside him. Coudn't find a therapist that took Medicaid...an attachment therapist. Oh sure, we found lots of regular ones...but those don't work...
After countless lies to his teachers in school about not being fed, etc.. (a very common issue with RAD children is food) the state decided to take him and put him in foster care. They even had the nerve to say that his problems were because of us. My two biological kids disagree...and they are very happy with him out of the house now.
considering he has two older sisters, both RAD, ODD, ADHD, and one BPD and in residential treatment....and he was raised by the same mother ... I'm not surprised that he is hurt and I wanted him badly to get some help. Unfortunatly, they diagnose him with RAD but they won't help him. They just put him in a home like his sisters and work on behavioral problems...but not the real core problem. (his lack of attachment) I know, because his sisters have been gone for over 3 years now.
They will soon be terminating my fiance's parental rights because they say he doesn't know how to parent their "special needs"... yet they won't show him how.. they will take the time to show the foster parents and the adoption parents how they think it should be done though.. I wish the same consideration was given here...
It's been a long road for me, living 2 1/2 years with a child that has RAD. Theres been so many tears of frusteration, hurt, and anger. So many helpless nights..
I can finally breathe now. I am sad he is gone, but in a way I'm not. I know that I tried so hard to love him and help him...but it wasn't enough. He needs constant 1 on 1 attention and direction. And with two other kids I couldn't give him that. I tried so hard...
I saw his behaviors affecting everyone in the house, and even my relationship. We were all so tense...and scared all the time.
I'm hoping one day they will wake up and get him the help he needs and deserves. And if the day ever comes that he knocks on our door, we'll welcome him with open arms.
Sorry for this being so long, and thank you for reading.
Blessed be,
Ana
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally Brown
~LilacMoon~ wrote:
Cally
>"sometimes to the point of serious psychological problems(((hugs)))
>(attachment disorders, especially) that will be very hard to un-do."
>
>
>I needed to reply to this... if for no other reason to reiterate how difficult raising an attachment disordered child is..
>
><cut>
>
>I'm hoping one day they will wake up and get him the help he needs and deserves. And if the day ever comes that he knocks on our door, we'll welcome him with open arms.
>
>Sorry for this being so long, and thank you for reading.
>
>Blessed be,
>Ana
>
>
>
Cally
pam sorooshian
Ana,
Do you talk to other parents who have been through this? Much of your
story was extremely familiar to me - different details, but quite as
awful, with my niece. And the stuff about lying and convincing others
that the parents are at fault is common, too. It was probably the
hardest thing to deal with. THE hardest. That the very therapists and
counselors whom my sister had hired to help her help her daughter,
often believed the lies and were suspicious of my sister. Imagine the
heartbreak of seeing your child dealing with such HORRIBLE problems, to
start with, and putting most of your life, energy, time, love,
attention, into trying to help that child, and then to be BLAMED for
all kinds of things that you never did. I hope you know, Ana, that
there are those of out here who know what this is REALLY like.
-pam
Do you talk to other parents who have been through this? Much of your
story was extremely familiar to me - different details, but quite as
awful, with my niece. And the stuff about lying and convincing others
that the parents are at fault is common, too. It was probably the
hardest thing to deal with. THE hardest. That the very therapists and
counselors whom my sister had hired to help her help her daughter,
often believed the lies and were suspicious of my sister. Imagine the
heartbreak of seeing your child dealing with such HORRIBLE problems, to
start with, and putting most of your life, energy, time, love,
attention, into trying to help that child, and then to be BLAMED for
all kinds of things that you never did. I hope you know, Ana, that
there are those of out here who know what this is REALLY like.
-pam
On May 19, 2004, at 11:46 AM, ~LilacMoon~ wrote:
> After countless lies to his teachers in school about not being fed,
> etc.. (a very common issue with RAD children is food) the state
> decided to take him and put him in foster care. They even had the
> nerve to say that his problems were because of us. My two biological
> kids disagree...and they are very happy with him out of the house now.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Andrea
At 10:53 AM 5/19/04, Nancy B. wrote:
child it would be easier if you have already been through that age with
your own biological child. It is hard to parent a child with whom you have
not shared the early years of love and attachment. Maybe if I had already
been through that age with my biological child it would have been easier
for both of us. Of course, I also had not fully formulated my parenting
ideas at that time and did things I would do differently now.
Donna
>We have adopted 3 boys, and fostered as well. Another suggestion is to neverSpeaking from experience, I think that when you adopt an older (non-infant)
>adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids out of their
>birth order.
child it would be easier if you have already been through that age with
your own biological child. It is hard to parent a child with whom you have
not shared the early years of love and attachment. Maybe if I had already
been through that age with my biological child it would have been easier
for both of us. Of course, I also had not fully formulated my parenting
ideas at that time and did things I would do differently now.
Donna
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/19/2004 4:27:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cquill@... writes:
nights..
I can finally breathe now. I am sad he is gone, but in a way I'm not. I know
that I tried so hard to love him and help him...but it wasn't enough. He needs
constant 1 on 1 attention and direction. And with two other kids I couldn't
give him that. I tried so hard...<<<
*************************************
Ana - I sat here nodding my head at your entire letter. I too have read
everything I could find on RAD. It is such a sad, disheartening situation for a
kid. Unfortunately, some children are just so far gone that an institution or
hospital is the only safe place for them.
With attachment disorders, the sooner it is dealt with, the better. Time is
of the essence. Our 10 yo was pretty bad off when we first got him, but he
was placed with us at 7 1/2 years old (we were his 11th home) and he has
improved so much we believe he's attached really well. He is also mildly MR, which
honestly has probably helped him. I believe his limitations softened the
effects of the abuse and moving around he had to deal with the first 7 years of his
life.
And like I said earlier, luck had a lot to do with our adoptions/fostering
being successful. We were NOT placed with kids who could not be helped. I know
of a few kids in our agency that act out as your fiance's son did, and the
parents are hanging on by a thin thread. The only one keeping their lives
together is the attachment therapist many of us have gone to. She's awesome, and
has studied with Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky at their Ohio attachment clinic.
They are a God-send.
My heart goes out to you, you're in my thoughts today. Blessings to you and
your family in your healing.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cquill@... writes:
>>>It's been a long road for me, living 2 1/2 years with a child that hasRAD. Theres been so many tears of frusteration, hurt, and anger. So many helpless
nights..
I can finally breathe now. I am sad he is gone, but in a way I'm not. I know
that I tried so hard to love him and help him...but it wasn't enough. He needs
constant 1 on 1 attention and direction. And with two other kids I couldn't
give him that. I tried so hard...<<<
*************************************
Ana - I sat here nodding my head at your entire letter. I too have read
everything I could find on RAD. It is such a sad, disheartening situation for a
kid. Unfortunately, some children are just so far gone that an institution or
hospital is the only safe place for them.
With attachment disorders, the sooner it is dealt with, the better. Time is
of the essence. Our 10 yo was pretty bad off when we first got him, but he
was placed with us at 7 1/2 years old (we were his 11th home) and he has
improved so much we believe he's attached really well. He is also mildly MR, which
honestly has probably helped him. I believe his limitations softened the
effects of the abuse and moving around he had to deal with the first 7 years of his
life.
And like I said earlier, luck had a lot to do with our adoptions/fostering
being successful. We were NOT placed with kids who could not be helped. I know
of a few kids in our agency that act out as your fiance's son did, and the
parents are hanging on by a thin thread. The only one keeping their lives
together is the attachment therapist many of us have gone to. She's awesome, and
has studied with Dr. Keck and Regina Kupecky at their Ohio attachment clinic.
They are a God-send.
My heart goes out to you, you're in my thoughts today. Blessings to you and
your family in your healing.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/20/04 1:18:36 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:
<< And the stuff about lying and convincing others
that the parents are at fault is common, too. It was probably the
hardest thing to deal with. THE hardest. That the very therapists and
counselors whom my sister had hired to help her help her daughter,
often believed the lies and were suspicious of my sister. >>
That happened with my brother too. Twice he was in family therapy where they
would see family members some of the sessions. Once it was when I was living
with him and my mom, when I was about 25 and he was seven, I think. The
counsellor LOVED him, love him loved him, and concluded that somehow we were
totally screwing him up. Well I think my mom was. <g> But I wasn't able to
convince her much. And I knew much of it was him being like his alcoholic, sneaky,
abandoning father (not MY father), who had another family he had walked out on
too.
A few years later he was in my custody and was 13/14. He was court-ordered
to be evaluated by a therapist. He went four times and then I went in for the
advisement and summary, for the therapist to tell me what he was planning to
tell the social workers. We (Keith and I) weren't in question. It was
whether they were going to put in him a group home or therapy or what, because he
had gotten in trouble not many months after he came to live with us in
Albuquerque.
The therapist started talking to me and after a few statements, I interrupted
him and asked if maybe he had the wrong folder. I honestly thought he was
talking about an entirely different human. No, he had the right folder. My
brother had just created a character and laid on the drama and soundtrack and
there was things in there that had never even remotely happened. It wasn't like
he told his own story skewed. He made up a whole new story.
What a waste of time.
But me telling the therapist that made him defensive. Had he been totally
duped? Or was I trying to cover up my neglect of this poor, sweet teen who had
trusted me to help make his life better?
uh... yeah.
So they sent him on an Outward Bound trip as further combo eval-therapy. The
counsellors there LOVED him. One of the juvenile court judges visited and
LOVED him. What could possibly be his relatives' problem? This child is
WONDERFUL.
So listen, he's 32 now and his name is Justin Eugene Bradley. He's probably
in Arizona. He's tall, has straight teeth (braces we paid for), cheap
tattoos, GREAT smile, self-effacing manner, sweet first impression, and if you tell
him you're homeschooling he'll name me and he WILL charm you. Do NOT lend him
money, don't give him beer, don't let him know where your car keys are. Don't
trust him with your stuff or your daughters.
But maybe tell him his mom's dead. He's been gone nearly a year, since he
stole all her money after her SS and VA checks arrived in May 2003.
That was his biological mom.
Maybe birth control should be mandatory, in the water, required. Or at least
maybe it should be in the beer and tequila and all the crack in the world.
Sandra
<< And the stuff about lying and convincing others
that the parents are at fault is common, too. It was probably the
hardest thing to deal with. THE hardest. That the very therapists and
counselors whom my sister had hired to help her help her daughter,
often believed the lies and were suspicious of my sister. >>
That happened with my brother too. Twice he was in family therapy where they
would see family members some of the sessions. Once it was when I was living
with him and my mom, when I was about 25 and he was seven, I think. The
counsellor LOVED him, love him loved him, and concluded that somehow we were
totally screwing him up. Well I think my mom was. <g> But I wasn't able to
convince her much. And I knew much of it was him being like his alcoholic, sneaky,
abandoning father (not MY father), who had another family he had walked out on
too.
A few years later he was in my custody and was 13/14. He was court-ordered
to be evaluated by a therapist. He went four times and then I went in for the
advisement and summary, for the therapist to tell me what he was planning to
tell the social workers. We (Keith and I) weren't in question. It was
whether they were going to put in him a group home or therapy or what, because he
had gotten in trouble not many months after he came to live with us in
Albuquerque.
The therapist started talking to me and after a few statements, I interrupted
him and asked if maybe he had the wrong folder. I honestly thought he was
talking about an entirely different human. No, he had the right folder. My
brother had just created a character and laid on the drama and soundtrack and
there was things in there that had never even remotely happened. It wasn't like
he told his own story skewed. He made up a whole new story.
What a waste of time.
But me telling the therapist that made him defensive. Had he been totally
duped? Or was I trying to cover up my neglect of this poor, sweet teen who had
trusted me to help make his life better?
uh... yeah.
So they sent him on an Outward Bound trip as further combo eval-therapy. The
counsellors there LOVED him. One of the juvenile court judges visited and
LOVED him. What could possibly be his relatives' problem? This child is
WONDERFUL.
So listen, he's 32 now and his name is Justin Eugene Bradley. He's probably
in Arizona. He's tall, has straight teeth (braces we paid for), cheap
tattoos, GREAT smile, self-effacing manner, sweet first impression, and if you tell
him you're homeschooling he'll name me and he WILL charm you. Do NOT lend him
money, don't give him beer, don't let him know where your car keys are. Don't
trust him with your stuff or your daughters.
But maybe tell him his mom's dead. He's been gone nearly a year, since he
stole all her money after her SS and VA checks arrived in May 2003.
That was his biological mom.
Maybe birth control should be mandatory, in the water, required. Or at least
maybe it should be in the beer and tequila and all the crack in the world.
Sandra
~LilacMoon~
Thank you Pam.. I have to tell you..that brought a smile to my face. It isn't often that I (or we) talk to people about this. We may talk of how hard it was to deal with behaviors and such...but not usually about the impact the lying has had on us. Or in some cases, how it has hurt us forever. For instance, I now have PTSD from the chaos here at home. And worse, because of the "professionals" believing the child instead of us, we feel violated and distrustful of many other "professionals."
I've had to do a lot of soul searching in the past few months, to try to come to terms with what our lives were really like. Sometimes after people telling you over and over you did something wrong, you tend to believe it. Self doubt is a powerful thing. When those feelings creep back, I go read my journal. I read about how scared I was for myself and my family. I read about how much I loved him and how I wanted to help him... Yes, I read about a lot of anger too.. but I read about it because it was in there that I wrote it, instead of acting on it. Then, after reading...I can remember that I was very much the victim in my house. My finance's child was definatly the victim in his mothers house...but not here.
I know that I'm not alone, but sometimes it does seem it. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not. :-)
Blessed be,
Ana
I've had to do a lot of soul searching in the past few months, to try to come to terms with what our lives were really like. Sometimes after people telling you over and over you did something wrong, you tend to believe it. Self doubt is a powerful thing. When those feelings creep back, I go read my journal. I read about how scared I was for myself and my family. I read about how much I loved him and how I wanted to help him... Yes, I read about a lot of anger too.. but I read about it because it was in there that I wrote it, instead of acting on it. Then, after reading...I can remember that I was very much the victim in my house. My finance's child was definatly the victim in his mothers house...but not here.
I know that I'm not alone, but sometimes it does seem it. Thank you for reminding me that I'm not. :-)
Blessed be,
Ana
----- Original Message -----
From: pam sorooshian
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] problems with foster/adopted siblings
Ana,
Do you talk to other parents who have been through this? Much of your
story was extremely familiar to me - different details, but quite as
awful, with my niece. And the stuff about lying and convincing others
that the parents are at fault is common, too. It was probably the
hardest thing to deal with. THE hardest. That the very therapists and
counselors whom my sister had hired to help her help her daughter,
often believed the lies and were suspicious of my sister. Imagine the
heartbreak of seeing your child dealing with such HORRIBLE problems, to
start with, and putting most of your life, energy, time, love,
attention, into trying to help that child, and then to be BLAMED for
all kinds of things that you never did. I hope you know, Ana, that
there are those of out here who know what this is REALLY like.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sylvia Toyama
Maybe birth control should be mandatory, in the water, required. Or at least
maybe it should be in the beer and tequila and all the crack in the world.
***
Now there's an idea!
Syl
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
maybe it should be in the beer and tequila and all the crack in the world.
***
Now there's an idea!
Syl
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~LilacMoon~
Thank you Nancy for writing. :-) I'm glad that you were able to get your son the help he needed and that things are progressing the way they are. Thats great!
It's sad to know that things with my fiances son will not get better anytime in the future. With the state not focusing on RAD at all. (his case worker doesn't even know what it is) its doubtful that anything helpful will be done. But there is always hope. As long as he's alive theres hope. :-)
BB
Ana
My heart goes out to you, you're in my thoughts today. Blessings to you and
your family in your healing.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's sad to know that things with my fiances son will not get better anytime in the future. With the state not focusing on RAD at all. (his case worker doesn't even know what it is) its doubtful that anything helpful will be done. But there is always hope. As long as he's alive theres hope. :-)
BB
Ana
My heart goes out to you, you're in my thoughts today. Blessings to you and
your family in your healing.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
I've been mulling this over since it was brought up the last time
there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
from" him...if a family doesnt place alot of emphasis on rewards and
punishments (such as, the oldest gets more allowance, or has more
chores, or has to babysit all the time...or the youngest only gets
handmedowns or is constantly compared to the older kids, etc) is
birth order really that important? Obviously it matters in the same
way as other things matter (having your mother's nose, or being the
only redhead, or the only always-unschooled child, or the first
homebirthed child or whatever the case may be)as just another part of
who the child is, but why would it matter so much as to preclude,
say, adopting a child a couple years older than a birth child?
Being the mother of an only child (not by choice but circumstance)
and the youngest of eight children i must admit i dont have alot of
insight into the birth order thing.
Katherine
>out of their
> In a message dated 5/19/04 7:56:26 AM, CelticFrau@a... writes:
>
> << Another suggestion is to never
> adopt kids that are older than your own. It sort of throws kids
> birth order. >>being the
>
> Not "sort of." The difference between being the oldest and not
> oldest is a big old absolute. And my sister went from younger oftwo to youngest
> of four.How does the concept of "birth order" fit into an unschooling family?
I've been mulling this over since it was brought up the last time
there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
from" him...if a family doesnt place alot of emphasis on rewards and
punishments (such as, the oldest gets more allowance, or has more
chores, or has to babysit all the time...or the youngest only gets
handmedowns or is constantly compared to the older kids, etc) is
birth order really that important? Obviously it matters in the same
way as other things matter (having your mother's nose, or being the
only redhead, or the only always-unschooled child, or the first
homebirthed child or whatever the case may be)as just another part of
who the child is, but why would it matter so much as to preclude,
say, adopting a child a couple years older than a birth child?
Being the mother of an only child (not by choice but circumstance)
and the youngest of eight children i must admit i dont have alot of
insight into the birth order thing.
Katherine
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:21:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
from" him...<<
****************************************
Although it might not bother your biological child at first, there will be
some jealousy. A child has you all to themselves, and suddenly there's another
child...not a helpless baby, but one who is older, stronger, and usually more
aggressive with many more problems. Your child may be OK with having an older
sibling, but the older child being adopted, most likely with some emotional
and behavioral problems, will use the "I'm the oldest" card any way they can.
I know this sounds insensitive, but the fact is, if you adopt an older child,
especially one who's been in multiple placements, there will be problems.
With the right help, I would say MOST of these kids can be saved. But it's also
a safety issue. This is a child coming into your home you know very little
about. It's best that your own children are older so if something is done that
feels inappropriate, they can defend themselves and TELL you what happened.
I don't want to scare anyone off from adopting older kids, they need homes
too. But I would never do it unless my own were older than those being adopted.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555@... writes:
>>How does the concept of "birth order" fit into an unschooling family?I've been mulling this over since it was brought up the last time
there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
from" him...<<
****************************************
Although it might not bother your biological child at first, there will be
some jealousy. A child has you all to themselves, and suddenly there's another
child...not a helpless baby, but one who is older, stronger, and usually more
aggressive with many more problems. Your child may be OK with having an older
sibling, but the older child being adopted, most likely with some emotional
and behavioral problems, will use the "I'm the oldest" card any way they can.
I know this sounds insensitive, but the fact is, if you adopt an older child,
especially one who's been in multiple placements, there will be problems.
With the right help, I would say MOST of these kids can be saved. But it's also
a safety issue. This is a child coming into your home you know very little
about. It's best that your own children are older so if something is done that
feels inappropriate, they can defend themselves and TELL you what happened.
I don't want to scare anyone off from adopting older kids, they need homes
too. But I would never do it unless my own were older than those being adopted.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~LilacMoon~
My oldest biological daughter is almost 6 years old, and after having my fiances older son in the house..and now gone... she is doing so much better.
Socially she became withdrawn and angry. She would cry (literally) at spilt milk. She was jumpy and insecure. Her whole self changed more and more every day.
Still now, she cannot bring herself to say anything other than, "I hate him." She's learning to say, "I don't like how he treated me." but she's still not at that point yet.
She saw how he acted and how he treated me as well. And that was unacceptable to her. But she was powerless to stop any of it. So she watched silently, taking it all in. She knows that he was and is very sick. But the bitterness that is left she still can't get rid of. So long living in a household that was tense and scary. That in itself, felt like abuse to my biological children. To let them continue to live in a house where they didn't feel safe.
So, adopting an older child who may indeed (and more than likely) have very extensive issues ...won't be any easier on a younger child. If anything, it could very well be worse for many reasons. Remember, that if the child has any sort of attachment issues (and lets face it, how could they not?) being the youngest child in the family would only benefit them. They could be nurtured the way they need to be easier if they are the youngest or the only child.
Just my thoughts....from someone who has been there..
BB,
Ana
Socially she became withdrawn and angry. She would cry (literally) at spilt milk. She was jumpy and insecure. Her whole self changed more and more every day.
Still now, she cannot bring herself to say anything other than, "I hate him." She's learning to say, "I don't like how he treated me." but she's still not at that point yet.
She saw how he acted and how he treated me as well. And that was unacceptable to her. But she was powerless to stop any of it. So she watched silently, taking it all in. She knows that he was and is very sick. But the bitterness that is left she still can't get rid of. So long living in a household that was tense and scary. That in itself, felt like abuse to my biological children. To let them continue to live in a house where they didn't feel safe.
So, adopting an older child who may indeed (and more than likely) have very extensive issues ...won't be any easier on a younger child. If anything, it could very well be worse for many reasons. Remember, that if the child has any sort of attachment issues (and lets face it, how could they not?) being the youngest child in the family would only benefit them. They could be nurtured the way they need to be easier if they are the youngest or the only child.
Just my thoughts....from someone who has been there..
BB,
Ana
----- Original Message -----
From: CelticFrau@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: problems with foster/adopted siblings
In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:21:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
>>How does the concept of "birth order" fit into an unschooling family?
I've been mulling this over since it was brought up the last time
there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
from" him...<<
****************************************
Although it might not bother your biological child at first, there will be
some jealousy. A child has you all to themselves, and suddenly there's another
child...not a helpless baby, but one who is older, stronger, and usually more
aggressive with many more problems. Your child may be OK with having an older
sibling, but the older child being adopted, most likely with some emotional
and behavioral problems, will use the "I'm the oldest" card any way they can.
I know this sounds insensitive, but the fact is, if you adopt an older child,
especially one who's been in multiple placements, there will be problems.
With the right help, I would say MOST of these kids can be saved. But it's also
a safety issue. This is a child coming into your home you know very little
about. It's best that your own children are older so if something is done that
feels inappropriate, they can defend themselves and TELL you what happened.
I don't want to scare anyone off from adopting older kids, they need homes
too. But I would never do it unless my own were older than those being adopted.
Nancy B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<Remember, that if the child has any sort of attachment issues (and lets
face it, how could they not?) being the youngest child in the family would
only benefit them. They could be nurtured the way they need to be easier if
they are the youngest or the only child.>>>>
This is true and I would recommend the child being the youngest by quite a
margin. The other kids in the home will be a target for some aggressive
types of behavior, particularly if the child sees them as competing for
parental attention.
Much less competition if the age gap is wider and it gives the kids already
in the home some emotional distance. If you are 12 and a new kid comes in
the family that isn't particularly nice to you. It would be harder if the
new kid was 11 and easier if the new kid was 2.
Julie S.
face it, how could they not?) being the youngest child in the family would
only benefit them. They could be nurtured the way they need to be easier if
they are the youngest or the only child.>>>>
This is true and I would recommend the child being the youngest by quite a
margin. The other kids in the home will be a target for some aggressive
types of behavior, particularly if the child sees them as competing for
parental attention.
Much less competition if the age gap is wider and it gives the kids already
in the home some emotional distance. If you are 12 and a new kid comes in
the family that isn't particularly nice to you. It would be harder if the
new kid was 11 and easier if the new kid was 2.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "~LilacMoon~" <cquill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: problems with foster/adopted
siblings
> My oldest biological daughter is almost 6 years old, and after having my
fiances older son in the house..and now gone... she is doing so much better.
> Socially she became withdrawn and angry. She would cry (literally) at
spilt milk. She was jumpy and insecure. Her whole self changed more and more
every day.
> Still now, she cannot bring herself to say anything other than, "I hate
him." She's learning to say, "I don't like how he treated me." but she's
still not at that point yet.
>
> She saw how he acted and how he treated me as well. And that was
unacceptable to her. But she was powerless to stop any of it. So she watched
silently, taking it all in. She knows that he was and is very sick. But the
bitterness that is left she still can't get rid of. So long living in a
household that was tense and scary. That in itself, felt like abuse to my
biological children. To let them continue to live in a house where they
didn't feel safe.
>
> So, adopting an older child who may indeed (and more than likely) have
very extensive issues ...won't be any easier on a younger child. If
anything, it could very well be worse for many reasons. Remember, that if
the child has any sort of attachment issues (and lets face it, how could
they not?) being the youngest child in the family would only benefit them.
They could be nurtured the way they need to be easier if they are the
youngest or the only child.
>
> Just my thoughts....from someone who has been there..
>
> BB,
> Ana
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CelticFrau@...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 8:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: problems with foster/adopted
siblings
>
>
> In a message dated 5/21/2004 1:21:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> queenjane555@... writes:
> >>How does the concept of "birth order" fit into an unschooling family?
> I've been mulling this over since it was brought up the last time
> there was a thread on adoption. I'm trying to think how my child
> would be disrupted by a child older than him, what that would "take
> from" him...<<
> ****************************************
> Although it might not bother your biological child at first, there will
be
> some jealousy. A child has you all to themselves, and suddenly there's
another
> child...not a helpless baby, but one who is older, stronger, and usually
more
> aggressive with many more problems. Your child may be OK with having an
older
> sibling, but the older child being adopted, most likely with some
emotional
> and behavioral problems, will use the "I'm the oldest" card any way
they can.
>
> I know this sounds insensitive, but the fact is, if you adopt an older
child,
> especially one who's been in multiple placements, there will be
problems.
> With the right help, I would say MOST of these kids can be saved. But
it's also
> a safety issue. This is a child coming into your home you know very
little
> about. It's best that your own children are older so if something is
done that
> feels inappropriate, they can defend themselves and TELL you what
happened.
> I don't want to scare anyone off from adopting older kids, they need
homes
> too. But I would never do it unless my own were older than those being
adopted.
>
> Nancy B.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>