Ren

<< What's scary is that a lot of the homeschooling faithful are as

fueled

by a fanatical, religion-based belief in their mission as Islamist

terrorists, and seem to be just about as brainwashed. >>

"That sounds pretty informed to me."

Informed? About ONE segment of homeschoolers, sure. But an informed article would have been about more than one type of homeschooler.

He obviously based the entire article on what he'd seen in HIS neighborhood, not on a broad base of different homeschooling families across the country. THAT'S what makes it uninformed. He's lumping all homeschoolers together....overgeneralizing and stereotyping. That's a lame article for this reason.

Just because it's uninformed and completely biased doesn't mean it isn't true of SOME homeschoolers. Yeah, a strong group of them, that are rising in numbers, but it's still a crappy piece of journalism at best.

Ren



"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

Ren

Also, I live in the Bible belt, where most all homeschooling families are doing it for religious reasons. I haven't met very many of them where the kids are miserable and want to be in school. Overall, they're happy, well adjusted, interesting people.
And I know of NO families personally, that spend all day at home. Most of them are on the go a lot, doing really interesting things.
I don't agree with their religion, I don't like the way they school at home (even if a lot of them are relaxed), and I think they pass on definite biases to their children about "right" and "wrong", but for the most part, these kids are much happier than their schooled counterparts I meet.

There's no way that guy even took time to really understand the families he's writing about. Did he interview them, try to know what they really do all day? Maybe they are like the few fanatics I know down here, but maybe not. He didn't do enough research to prove diddly.

Ren

"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/04 9:03:11 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< He obviously based the entire article on what he'd seen in HIS
neighborhood, >>

Obviously and clearly, and said so.
It wasn't about all homeschoolers. It was about his neighbors and people
like them.

-=-
Informed? About ONE segment of homeschoolers, sure. But an informed article
would have been about more than one type of homeschooler.-=-

It was a piece of writing. It wasn't a report. It was an essay, personal,
and clearly stated. He didn't pretend statistics and he did NOT claim,
anywhere in there that I saw, to be trying to say something about all homeschoolers
everywhere.

-=-He obviously based the entire article on what he'd seen in HIS
neighborhood, not on a broad base of different homeschooling families across the country.
THAT'S what makes it uninformed.-=-

No, that's what makes it personal.

What is uninformed is someone feigning surprise (or being honestly surprised?
That would be WORSE) that such homeschoolers exist.

Anytime something like that comes up public, half a dozen unschoolers (those
are the only people I tend to follow regularly or hear from, which is find
with me) start to sputter as though they do not believe such homeschoolers exist.

MANY, hundreds of THOUSANDS and I hope not millions of those homeschoolers
exist. They have big damned glossy magazines and HUGE conventions. Not like
the little laid-back conventions unschoolers have sometimes when they're lucky,
but GIGANTIC state-fair sized insane kind of conventions.

They do exist. Darned if some non-homeschooler discovered some. But he was
not uninformed.

If we other homeschoolers are going to express opinions, please, PLEASE let
THOSE benorance.

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/04 9:08:19 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< There's no way that guy even took time to really understand the families
he's writing about. Did he interview them, try to know what they really do all
day? Maybe they are like the few fanatics I know down here, but maybe not. He
didn't do enough research to prove diddly.
>>

I don't think it was a research piece.
I don't think it was trying to be a journalistic report.

It was just his opinion.

I doubt people here intend to suggest that opinion and personal opinion
writing should be discouraged. Those two kinds of writing are the basis of all the
best unschooling writings ever.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/04 9:08:19 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< And I know of NO families personally, that spend all day at home. Most of
them are on the go a lot, doing really interesting things. >>

As lately as some of the last discussions of daytime curfews there have been
homeschooling families advising other homeschoolers to stay home during
schoolhours, stay in the house, don't draw attention to youselves.

When I was first homeschooling, half the homeschoolers on the internet gave
that advice regularly.

Not the unschoolers, but the school at home majority.

He didn't make that up.

Homeschoolers are criticized if their kids are out, and if their kids aren't
out. You all know that.

Sandra

[email protected]

<<<<<<<He obviously based the entire article on what he'd seen in HIS
neighborhood, not on a broad base of different homeschooling families
across the country. THAT'S what makes it uninformed. He's lumping all
homeschoolers together....overgeneralizing and stereotyping. That's a
lame article for this reason.>>>>>>>.

We could lump all writers together and come to one conclusion and be just
as wrong as he was about homeschoolers.


<<<<<<<<If that's the worst you've ever seen, stick around a few years.

If anyone were to go out all a-huff that that article is wrong, that
would
make homeschoolers look worse than just saying nothing. Much of that
article is
bang on.

Sandra>>>>>>>>>>>>


I have homeschooled seventeen years and some of the earlier articles were
pretty ignorant and biased like this one, but it's been awhile since I
saw anything wrote from such inner bitterness and not facts. If the
writer wants to judge Christians (the part about the mom who put her
children into public school and reaped a disaster where I believe he
mentioned she threw them to the wolves made me wonder if the target may
have been those overly zealous Christians who helped pave the way for
such a horrid movement [tongue-in-cheek]. I believe the opening title
mentioned martyrs.)

If his beef is with Christians then say so,but to lable a whole movement
with what I feel was ignorant bias means the article was pretty
worthless. It was a big ole' vent against his neighbors, for God know
whatever they did to him. Maybe their kids didn't play with his kids?
<G>

I didn't see anything that was "bang on". See how opinions even among
homeschooler vary? I don't mind, but at least the guy could get educated
on what certification does for helping students and get his facts
straight.

So there's my big ole' vent!

God bless, Alice

Deb Lewis

***It was a big ole' vent against his neighbors, for God know
whatever they did to him. Maybe their kids didn't play with his kids?***

The author, Quinn Cotton is a woman. I don't live in Charlotte, NC but I
know families just like the families she describes. In fact, my first
seven years in this town those where the only kinds of homeschoolers I
met.

So where are all the Charlotte, NC. unschoolers and how come Ms. Cotton
hasn't seen *you* yet? <g>

Deb L

moonwindstarsky

ok, then i guess it was NOT proven clearly with sources if that was
his/her/its point - i found out the other columns are twisted like
this and a mom from a different group said it was a satiricist

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/10/04 9:08:19 AM, starsuncloud@n... writes:
>
> << There's no way that guy even took time to really understand the
families
> he's writing about. Did he interview them, try to know what they
really do all
> day? Maybe they are like the few fanatics I know down here, but
maybe not. He
> didn't do enough research to prove diddly.
> >>
>
> I don't think it was a research piece.
> I don't think it was trying to be a journalistic report.
>
> It was just his opinion.
>
> I doubt people here intend to suggest that opinion and personal
opinion
> writing should be discouraged. Those two kinds of writing are the
basis of all the
> best unschooling writings ever.
>
> Sandra

moonwindstarsky

Criticism doesn't mean giving up rights in fear of it. Families can
choose to move (but that's if it's extreme probably).


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/10/04 9:08:19 AM, starsuncloud@n... writes:
>
> As lately as some of the last discussions of daytime curfews there
have been
> homeschooling families advising other homeschoolers to stay home
during
> schoolhours, stay in the house, don't draw attention to youselves.
>
> When I was first homeschooling, half the homeschoolers on the
internet gave
> that advice regularly.
>
> Not the unschoolers, but the school at home majority.
>
> He didn't make that up.
>
> Homeschoolers are criticized if their kids are out, and if their
kids aren't
> out. You all know that.
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/2004 11:03:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
"That sounds pretty informed to me."

Informed? About ONE segment of homeschoolers, sure. But an informed article
would have been about more than one type of homeschooler.

He obviously based the entire article on what he'd seen in HIS neighborhood,
not on a broad base of different homeschooling families across the country.
THAT'S what makes it uninformed. He's lumping all homeschoolers
together....overgeneralizing and stereotyping. That's a lame article for this reason.

Just because it's uninformed and completely biased doesn't mean it isn't true
of SOME homeschoolers. Yeah, a strong group of them, that are rising in
numbers, but it's still a crappy piece of journalism at best.<<<<<

She's writing from Charlotte, NC which is a hotbed of school-at-homers
(doh!). She's writing from experience! The town is CRAAAAAAWWWWWLING with them. It's
spot -on here!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/10/2004 11:07:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
There's no way that guy even took time to really understand the families he's
writing about. Did he interview them, try to know what they really do all
day? Maybe they are like the few fanatics I know down here, but maybe not. He
didn't do enough research to prove diddly.<<<

It's not a research article, Ren. And there are plenty of them here!

Unschoolers are the minority of the minority here (and I'm Bible-beltier than
you! <g>)----and she's writing what she's seeing. The NC group is actually
having a spanking advocate at their upcoming conference! It's STRONG here!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ann and Eric Yates

The NC group is actually
having a spanking advocate at their upcoming conference!

Oh good grief....I knew there was a reason I never went to those conferences!
Ann


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Just to show you a bit *more* of the Christian-school-at-homer (doh!) stuff
here in the Bible Belt.

I'm surrounded!

~Kelly

Story last updated at 7:12 a.m. Saturday, May 8, 2004


Baptist pushes resolution against public schools

Charleston native proposes church measure calling on Christian
parents to spurn system

BY DAVE MUNDAY
Of The Post and Courier Staff
A Charleston-born Southern Baptist leader is urging America's biggest
Protestant denomination to call on parents to pull their children out
of public schools.

T.C. Pinckney, a Charleston native and Citadel graduate who publishes
The Baptist Banner in Alexandria, Va., submitted the controversial
resolution for next month's annual meeting in Indianapolis.

The resolution says Christian parents should put their children in
Christian schools or teach them at home because public schools
are "anti-Christian," "humanistic" and "officially Godless,"
and "many Christian children in government schools are converted to
an anti-Christian worldview rather than evangelizing their
schoolmates."

The resolution has been widely circulated through e-mail. Pinckney, a
former second vice president of the convention and one of the leaders
in the denomination's conservative takeover in the 1970s and '80s,
confirmed the resolution's authenticity in a telephone interview
Friday.

A committee appointed by President Jack Graham will decide whether to
release it for debate on the floor, said John Revell, executive
committee staff liaison to the resolutions committee. The convention
never comments on resolutions in advance, he said in an interview,
which he followed up with a statement by e-mail.

"The Southern Baptist Convention has more than 43,000 churches with
more than 16.3 million members," the statement said. "Any -- or all --
of those members could hypothetically submit a proposed resolution
on any subject matter they choose. The resolutions committee
prayerfully and carefully evaluates each proposal to determine if it
is suitable for submission to the Southern Baptist Convention."

In 1999, messengers passed a resolution urging churches to support
Christian educational programs "whether they are implemented in
Christian, private, public, or home schools." In 1997, they passed a
resolution supporting parents who teach their children at home and
Christians who teach in public schools.

If the committee does not release the resolution for debate, Pinckney
said he will make a motion from the floor after the convention opens
June 15. Two-thirds of the messengers would have to approve for the
resolution to stay alive.

The resolution was co-sponsored by Bruce Shortt of Houston, a former
attorney who is active in the home-school movement through the Exodus
Mandate, which is based in Columbia.

Shortt has spearheaded the unusual preconvention publicity.

"As Christians, we have to take a serious look at this," he
said. "Government schools are a seething cauldron of educational
pathologies. Most parents have no idea how bad the government schools
are and how toxic that is for children. Christian children who attend
public schools are being enticed out of the church."

Exodus Mandate founder Ray Moore Jr. of Columbia, also a Charleston
native and Citadel graduate, said he made some suggestions while the
resolution was being drafted. He's not a Southern Baptist but
welcomes the discussion the resolution has generated.

"Even in South Carolina, the school system is officially anti-
Christian and godless," said Moore, whose four children were schooled
at home. "Anything goes but Christianity."

Pinckney grew up attending Citadel Square Baptist Church in downtown
Charleston, which operated a Christian school until the mid-1980s.
Pastor Ken Hardin declined to comment on the resolution, saying he
had not had time to read it.

Phone calls to several local Baptist school administrators Friday
afternoon were not returned.



Dave Munday can be reached at dmunday@... or 937-5720.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have a Nice Day!

The NC group is actually
having a spanking advocate at their upcoming conference! It's STRONG here!<<<<<<


Wow. The fact that this struck me as "blech" must mean that I've come a long way!! LOL.

I was never heavy into spanking, but I also live in an area where spanking is heartily defended.

I guess I've been out of that loop for so long I had sort of forgotten about it ;o). Good thing too.

Kristen




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]