schooling in an unschooling home.
Kathleen Gehrke
My daughter Megan went back to ps this January. As much as I hated
to see her go she really wanted to and I respected her choice. Well
we went to parent teacher conference. Everyone said how pleasant she
was. Her art teacher said how she would rather flirt than do art.
Her math teacher said her homeschooling had really left her behind.
Everyone else had nice reports and really great grades. My hubby on
the drive home wanted to take her computer away until she got with
the program.. LOL.. For a minute that was my inclination.. She is a
very smart, talented girl. Then it dawned on me that was my schooled
mind talking. That if her goal of going to school was to be social
and have a good time she was accomplishing that goal and her grades
were her choice. I had to breath very deep on some of that. When she
got up that morning she asked what all of her teachers had said. It
was very important to her that we went to the conference. I told her
exactly. I also told her how proud I was of her and how I was glad
she was having fun at school.
Just wanted to share,
Kathleen
to see her go she really wanted to and I respected her choice. Well
we went to parent teacher conference. Everyone said how pleasant she
was. Her art teacher said how she would rather flirt than do art.
Her math teacher said her homeschooling had really left her behind.
Everyone else had nice reports and really great grades. My hubby on
the drive home wanted to take her computer away until she got with
the program.. LOL.. For a minute that was my inclination.. She is a
very smart, talented girl. Then it dawned on me that was my schooled
mind talking. That if her goal of going to school was to be social
and have a good time she was accomplishing that goal and her grades
were her choice. I had to breath very deep on some of that. When she
got up that morning she asked what all of her teachers had said. It
was very important to her that we went to the conference. I told her
exactly. I also told her how proud I was of her and how I was glad
she was having fun at school.
Just wanted to share,
Kathleen
J. Stauffer
My three youngest have informed me they want to go to school next year.
They would be entering K and First. I am hoping when the time comes, they
will have changed their minds but I will respect their choice.
We live near the school and what they see are kids on the playground. I
figure K and First are usually still fun and it is free and if the kids want
to go have fun, what harm can it do? I don't expect them to stay very long
but we will see.
Julie S.
They would be entering K and First. I am hoping when the time comes, they
will have changed their minds but I will respect their choice.
We live near the school and what they see are kids on the playground. I
figure K and First are usually still fun and it is free and if the kids want
to go have fun, what harm can it do? I don't expect them to stay very long
but we will see.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathleen Gehrke" <gehrkes@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:58 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> My daughter Megan went back to ps this January. As much as I hated
> to see her go she really wanted to and I respected her choice. Well
> we went to parent teacher conference. Everyone said how pleasant she
> was. Her art teacher said how she would rather flirt than do art.
> Her math teacher said her homeschooling had really left her behind.
> Everyone else had nice reports and really great grades. My hubby on
> the drive home wanted to take her computer away until she got with
> the program.. LOL.. For a minute that was my inclination.. She is a
> very smart, talented girl. Then it dawned on me that was my schooled
> mind talking. That if her goal of going to school was to be social
> and have a good time she was accomplishing that goal and her grades
> were her choice. I had to breath very deep on some of that. When she
> got up that morning she asked what all of her teachers had said. It
> was very important to her that we went to the conference. I told her
> exactly. I also told her how proud I was of her and how I was glad
> she was having fun at school.
> Just wanted to share,
> Kathleen
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
JennK
Julie wrote:
However, if your children do decide to give school a try, you'll definitely
want to be on the lookout for the harm it can do. My twins (now 8yo) were
curious, secure, and very happy -- until they started school. Their love of
learning flew out the window when their teachers refused to let them do any
work beyond the class level and punished them (loss of recess) for asking
too many questions. Their self-esteem suffered when teachers belittled their
opinions. DS's self-esteem further suffered when his teacher berated his
sloppy handwriting in front of the entire class and punished him for being
bullied (yes, for BEING bullied, not bullying others). DS's teacher said he
had ADHD and insisted he be medicated; we later found out that more than 75%
of the boys in that class were on meds. My daughter's first grade teacher
confiscated books DD brought from home because she felt DD shouldn't be
"allowed" to read beyond grade level. The twins were punished if they played
together during recess because the teachers felt it hindered their
socialization with others (even if they were playing in a group of other
children at the time). At the same time, they were constantly compared to
each other and told which one was better/worse at various activities. This
drove a wedge between them and taught them that their twin was competition
rather than a valued friend. The only thing the administration did when I
protested these problems was to label me a pushy, overprotective mother.
Both children became sad, surly, and lost all curiosity. My daughter stopped
reading for pleasure entirely. My son cried whenever he had to do anything
involving a pencil or crayons.
Unfortunately, it took us until the middle of second grade (March 2003) to
stop banging our heads against the wall and pull the kids out of school. A
year later, we're still undoing the damage. My daughter now reads 3-4 hours
a day, by her own choosing. My son is starting to journal a bit, mostly
because he's discovered the fun of scrapbooking with me. But they don't
trust themselves to learn anymore, and they turn to me to direct and
dictate. It's only been the last month or so that they've really started to
ask questions again, to voice opinions, and regain even a bit of the
curiosity they once had. I want to let them discover and explore their
passions, but they're afraid to become passionate about anything. They're
rediscovering their bond with each other, but it's much more tenuous than it
once was.
I'm not saying your children will have the same experiences mine did, but it
CAN happen. If I had it to do over, my kids would have never entered a
school building. If yours decide to try school, you'll want to be extra
alert to changes in personality, motivation, and curiosity.
Jenn
> I figure K and First are usually stillJulie, I'm new here so if I'm stepping on toes, feel free to ignore this.
> fun and it is free and if the kids want
> to go have fun, what harm can it do?
However, if your children do decide to give school a try, you'll definitely
want to be on the lookout for the harm it can do. My twins (now 8yo) were
curious, secure, and very happy -- until they started school. Their love of
learning flew out the window when their teachers refused to let them do any
work beyond the class level and punished them (loss of recess) for asking
too many questions. Their self-esteem suffered when teachers belittled their
opinions. DS's self-esteem further suffered when his teacher berated his
sloppy handwriting in front of the entire class and punished him for being
bullied (yes, for BEING bullied, not bullying others). DS's teacher said he
had ADHD and insisted he be medicated; we later found out that more than 75%
of the boys in that class were on meds. My daughter's first grade teacher
confiscated books DD brought from home because she felt DD shouldn't be
"allowed" to read beyond grade level. The twins were punished if they played
together during recess because the teachers felt it hindered their
socialization with others (even if they were playing in a group of other
children at the time). At the same time, they were constantly compared to
each other and told which one was better/worse at various activities. This
drove a wedge between them and taught them that their twin was competition
rather than a valued friend. The only thing the administration did when I
protested these problems was to label me a pushy, overprotective mother.
Both children became sad, surly, and lost all curiosity. My daughter stopped
reading for pleasure entirely. My son cried whenever he had to do anything
involving a pencil or crayons.
Unfortunately, it took us until the middle of second grade (March 2003) to
stop banging our heads against the wall and pull the kids out of school. A
year later, we're still undoing the damage. My daughter now reads 3-4 hours
a day, by her own choosing. My son is starting to journal a bit, mostly
because he's discovered the fun of scrapbooking with me. But they don't
trust themselves to learn anymore, and they turn to me to direct and
dictate. It's only been the last month or so that they've really started to
ask questions again, to voice opinions, and regain even a bit of the
curiosity they once had. I want to let them discover and explore their
passions, but they're afraid to become passionate about anything. They're
rediscovering their bond with each other, but it's much more tenuous than it
once was.
I'm not saying your children will have the same experiences mine did, but it
CAN happen. If I had it to do over, my kids would have never entered a
school building. If yours decide to try school, you'll want to be extra
alert to changes in personality, motivation, and curiosity.
Jenn
Danielle Conger
----- Original Message -----
Julie S. wrote: My three youngest have informed me they want to go to school
next year.
> They would be entering K and First. I am hoping when the time comes, they
> will have changed their minds but I will respect their choice.
>
> We live near the school and what they see are kids on the playground. I
> figure K and First are usually still fun and it is free and if the kids
want
> to go have fun, what harm can it do? I don't expect them to stay very
long
> but we will see.
===========================================
NOOOOOOOO!
Okay, now that I got that primal scream out, I guess I should mention that
my oldest went to 6 days of K in January of 2003--to a "really good school"
in the state.
What she learned:
1) riding the school bus when she would rather be sleeping is not all it's
cracked up to be
2) she can't sit where she wants to sit
3) she can't play what she wants to play, when she wants to play it
4) yes, there are lots of friends around you, but most of the time, you
can't actually play with them
5) if you are the only one who follows directions, you get a lollypop (yes,
the unschooled child followed directions but not the rest of them--she
figured, "why not?" while the rest of them were probably busy rebelling
because they knew this went on every minute of every day!)
6) if you are the only one who sits on the bus, you get a lollypop
7) when you go to school, you can't play; when you come home, you still
can't play because you still have schoolwork to do
Hmmmm... yes she's decided for herself that school is not somewhere she
wants to be. Maybe the 6 days was worth that, I don't know. She's the same
child who just recently didn't want to write over a mistake because "they"
might see that she didn't do it right the first time (during a portfolio
review mandated by the state). Might just be the perfectionist in her; might
be the damage done by those 6 days of school. You make the call.
Good luck!
--Danielle
http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
J. Stauffer
<<<<Might just be the perfectionist in her; might
3 months. The older kids have been telling the younger ones what it was
like but they seem to be swayed by what they see on pre-school programming
on television. Little Bill always has such a fun time with his super-cool
teacher <sigh>.
None of my younger kids are the quietly compliant type so I don't see this
being a good fit for them. I talk with them about it but they are also the
"gotta see for myself" types.....so I figure we may just have to bite the
bullet.
I feel bummed when I think about the school messing with schedules again.
Oh well, August is a long time off so perhaps their minds will collectively
change.
Julie S.
> be the damage done by those 6 days of school. You make the call.>>>>My oldest 2 already went to school briefly. One for a year and another for
3 months. The older kids have been telling the younger ones what it was
like but they seem to be swayed by what they see on pre-school programming
on television. Little Bill always has such a fun time with his super-cool
teacher <sigh>.
None of my younger kids are the quietly compliant type so I don't see this
being a good fit for them. I talk with them about it but they are also the
"gotta see for myself" types.....so I figure we may just have to bite the
bullet.
I feel bummed when I think about the school messing with schedules again.
Oh well, August is a long time off so perhaps their minds will collectively
change.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danielle Conger" <danielle.conger@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> ----- Original Message -----
> Julie S. wrote: My three youngest have informed me they want to go to
school
> next year.
> > They would be entering K and First. I am hoping when the time comes,
they
> > will have changed their minds but I will respect their choice.
> >
> > We live near the school and what they see are kids on the playground. I
> > figure K and First are usually still fun and it is free and if the kids
> want
> > to go have fun, what harm can it do? I don't expect them to stay very
> long
> > but we will see.
> ===========================================
>
> NOOOOOOOO!
>
> Okay, now that I got that primal scream out, I guess I should mention that
> my oldest went to 6 days of K in January of 2003--to a "really good
school"
> in the state.
>
> What she learned:
> 1) riding the school bus when she would rather be sleeping is not all it's
> cracked up to be
> 2) she can't sit where she wants to sit
> 3) she can't play what she wants to play, when she wants to play it
> 4) yes, there are lots of friends around you, but most of the time, you
> can't actually play with them
> 5) if you are the only one who follows directions, you get a lollypop
(yes,
> the unschooled child followed directions but not the rest of them--she
> figured, "why not?" while the rest of them were probably busy rebelling
> because they knew this went on every minute of every day!)
> 6) if you are the only one who sits on the bus, you get a lollypop
> 7) when you go to school, you can't play; when you come home, you still
> can't play because you still have schoolwork to do
>
>
> Hmmmm... yes she's decided for herself that school is not somewhere she
> wants to be. Maybe the 6 days was worth that, I don't know. She's the same
> child who just recently didn't want to write over a mistake because "they"
> might see that she didn't do it right the first time (during a portfolio
> review mandated by the state). Might just be the perfectionist in her;
might
> be the damage done by those 6 days of school. You make the call.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --Danielle
>
> http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Diane
Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or summer
program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let them
learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.
:-) Diane
program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let them
learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.
:-) Diane
>What she learned:
>1) riding the school bus when she would rather be sleeping is not all it's
>cracked up to be
>2) she can't sit where she wants to sit
>3) she can't play what she wants to play, when she wants to play it
>4) yes, there are lots of friends around you, but most of the time, you
>can't actually play with them
>5) if you are the only one who follows directions, you get a lollypop (yes,
>the unschooled child followed directions but not the rest of them--she
>figured, "why not?" while the rest of them were probably busy rebelling
>because they knew this went on every minute of every day!)
>6) if you are the only one who sits on the bus, you get a lollypop
>7) when you go to school, you can't play; when you come home, you still
>can't play because you still have schoolwork to do
>
Susan Gallien
Have you read John Taylor Gatto's "The Underground History of American Education" if not try to get it from your local library. School is about control, and training children to be mindless drones ready for factory work. Sure there are a few winners, but being one of the chosen few while the whole system denigrates the losers causes one to loose a bit of their humanity.
I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because they aren't very bright.
Sue Gallien
The Winona Farm, Minnesota
http://thewinonafarm.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because they aren't very bright.
Sue Gallien
The Winona Farm, Minnesota
http://thewinonafarm.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<< I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow
my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to
school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the
deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because
they aren't very bright.>>>>
I'm sorry but I don't see these things as parallels. The first two are life
and death situations. School isn't life and death. My kids are sadly
exposed to "school thought" about children, etc. all the time. We live in
the Bible belt after all (Found out this morning that all I have to do to
get the Jehovah Witnesses to haul butt out of here is to say I'm Pagan, go
figure. <grin>).
We know only one other unschooling family, period. Most are school at
homers who, without realizing it, humiliate and coerce their children into
drivel spitters.
We talk about it. About the differences between our family and others,
about the differences between how we see education and how many others do.
But if I do not trust my kids to make the "correct for them" choices about
their education....then I am certainly no unschooler. I feel that I must
walk the walk.
Julie S.
my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to
school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the
deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because
they aren't very bright.>>>>
I'm sorry but I don't see these things as parallels. The first two are life
and death situations. School isn't life and death. My kids are sadly
exposed to "school thought" about children, etc. all the time. We live in
the Bible belt after all (Found out this morning that all I have to do to
get the Jehovah Witnesses to haul butt out of here is to say I'm Pagan, go
figure. <grin>).
We know only one other unschooling family, period. Most are school at
homers who, without realizing it, humiliate and coerce their children into
drivel spitters.
We talk about it. About the differences between our family and others,
about the differences between how we see education and how many others do.
But if I do not trust my kids to make the "correct for them" choices about
their education....then I am certainly no unschooler. I feel that I must
walk the walk.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Gallien" <susan@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> Have you read John Taylor Gatto's "The Underground History of American
Education" if not try to get it from your local library. School is about
control, and training children to be mindless drones ready for factory work.
Sure there are a few winners, but being one of the chosen few while the
whole system denigrates the losers causes one to loose a bit of their
humanity.
>
> I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow my
children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to
school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the
deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because
they aren't very bright.
>
>
> Sue Gallien
> The Winona Farm, Minnesota
> http://thewinonafarm.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cally Brown
My youngest child chose to go to school at 5.
school, but here in New Zealand at least, school is not a life
threatening place.
I also think that there is a vast difference in the effect of school on
a child who chooses to go to school compared to the one who is forced to
go to school. My son chose to go to school knowing he could leave and
be homeschooled when he wanted to - he lasted 5 weeks. My schooled
niece loved school and was sucessful there. When she had a major
personality conflict with a teacher, my sister told her that if she
wanted to, she could be homeschooled like her cousins. She chose to
stay at school, because overall she enjoyed it, and the offer of
homeschooling, the knowledge of an escape route, made it bearable. Once
the offer was made, she changed from being a very unhappy little girl,
to one whose attitude was, 'you gotta take to bad with the good'. But
it was HER attitude, not one my sister told her. She felt validated,
and knew she had a true choice, so she was okay.
I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced.
Cally
>I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because they aren't very bright.I do not think the examples given here are relevant. I don't like
>
school, but here in New Zealand at least, school is not a life
threatening place.
I also think that there is a vast difference in the effect of school on
a child who chooses to go to school compared to the one who is forced to
go to school. My son chose to go to school knowing he could leave and
be homeschooled when he wanted to - he lasted 5 weeks. My schooled
niece loved school and was sucessful there. When she had a major
personality conflict with a teacher, my sister told her that if she
wanted to, she could be homeschooled like her cousins. She chose to
stay at school, because overall she enjoyed it, and the offer of
homeschooling, the knowledge of an escape route, made it bearable. Once
the offer was made, she changed from being a very unhappy little girl,
to one whose attitude was, 'you gotta take to bad with the good'. But
it was HER attitude, not one my sister told her. She felt validated,
and knew she had a true choice, so she was okay.
I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced.
Cally
J. Stauffer
<<<<If yours decide to try school, you'll want to be extra
always keep an eye out.
I'm not particularly worried about school because the little guys have grown
up in an unschooling home. It is what they know and they see it in sharp
contrast to most of their friends' homes. They know they will be free to
leave if they choose, or stay if they choose, or have a day off if they
choose. Very different scenario than kids who think school is the only
choice they have for the next 12 years.
Julie S.
> alert to changes in personality, motivation, and curiosity.I would anyway. Lots of things besides school can damage children so I
> >>>>
always keep an eye out.
I'm not particularly worried about school because the little guys have grown
up in an unschooling home. It is what they know and they see it in sharp
contrast to most of their friends' homes. They know they will be free to
leave if they choose, or stay if they choose, or have a day off if they
choose. Very different scenario than kids who think school is the only
choice they have for the next 12 years.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JennK" <jennk@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> Julie wrote:
> > I figure K and First are usually still
> > fun and it is free and if the kids want
> > to go have fun, what harm can it do?
>
> Julie, I'm new here so if I'm stepping on toes, feel free to ignore this.
> However, if your children do decide to give school a try, you'll
definitely
> want to be on the lookout for the harm it can do. My twins (now 8yo) were
> curious, secure, and very happy -- until they started school. Their love
of
> learning flew out the window when their teachers refused to let them do
any
> work beyond the class level and punished them (loss of recess) for asking
> too many questions. Their self-esteem suffered when teachers belittled
their
> opinions. DS's self-esteem further suffered when his teacher berated his
> sloppy handwriting in front of the entire class and punished him for being
> bullied (yes, for BEING bullied, not bullying others). DS's teacher said
he
> had ADHD and insisted he be medicated; we later found out that more than
75%
> of the boys in that class were on meds. My daughter's first grade teacher
> confiscated books DD brought from home because she felt DD shouldn't be
> "allowed" to read beyond grade level. The twins were punished if they
played
> together during recess because the teachers felt it hindered their
> socialization with others (even if they were playing in a group of other
> children at the time). At the same time, they were constantly compared to
> each other and told which one was better/worse at various activities. This
> drove a wedge between them and taught them that their twin was competition
> rather than a valued friend. The only thing the administration did when I
> protested these problems was to label me a pushy, overprotective mother.
> Both children became sad, surly, and lost all curiosity. My daughter
stopped
> reading for pleasure entirely. My son cried whenever he had to do anything
> involving a pencil or crayons.
>
> Unfortunately, it took us until the middle of second grade (March 2003) to
> stop banging our heads against the wall and pull the kids out of school. A
> year later, we're still undoing the damage. My daughter now reads 3-4
hours
> a day, by her own choosing. My son is starting to journal a bit, mostly
> because he's discovered the fun of scrapbooking with me. But they don't
> trust themselves to learn anymore, and they turn to me to direct and
> dictate. It's only been the last month or so that they've really started
to
> ask questions again, to voice opinions, and regain even a bit of the
> curiosity they once had. I want to let them discover and explore their
> passions, but they're afraid to become passionate about anything. They're
> rediscovering their bond with each other, but it's much more tenuous than
it
> once was.
>
> I'm not saying your children will have the same experiences mine did, but
it
> CAN happen. If I had it to do over, my kids would have never entered a
> school building. If yours decide to try school, you'll want to be extra
> alert to changes in personality, motivation, and curiosity.
>
> Jenn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or summer
If my kids wanted to hang out with horses, we would go to the stables. If
they wanted riding lessons, we would sign them up.
If my kids wanted to play with patterns, we would get out the blocks or the
piano or beads and string. If they wanted music lessons, we would sign them
up.
If the kids want to go to school, of course we will talk about it. Of
course, I will miss them. But I will respect their individuality and sign
them up.
Julie S.
> program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let themBut this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
> learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.>>>>
If my kids wanted to hang out with horses, we would go to the stables. If
they wanted riding lessons, we would sign them up.
If my kids wanted to play with patterns, we would get out the blocks or the
piano or beads and string. If they wanted music lessons, we would sign them
up.
If the kids want to go to school, of course we will talk about it. Of
course, I will miss them. But I will respect their individuality and sign
them up.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diane" <cen46624@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or summer
> program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let them
> learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.
>
> :-) Diane
>
> >What she learned:
> >1) riding the school bus when she would rather be sleeping is not all
it's
> >cracked up to be
> >2) she can't sit where she wants to sit
> >3) she can't play what she wants to play, when she wants to play it
> >4) yes, there are lots of friends around you, but most of the time, you
> >can't actually play with them
> >5) if you are the only one who follows directions, you get a lollypop
(yes,
> >the unschooled child followed directions but not the rest of them--she
> >figured, "why not?" while the rest of them were probably busy rebelling
> >because they knew this went on every minute of every day!)
> >6) if you are the only one who sits on the bus, you get a lollypop
> >7) when you go to school, you can't play; when you come home, you still
> >can't play because you still have schoolwork to do
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mary
From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
<<<> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or
summer
I took this to say that one should probably prepare the child who wants to
go to school and has never been for what they are to experience while there.
I know my kids would be shell shocked even if they wanted to go and I just
sent them with no preparation at all. If they want to go and try that's
fine, but I do think that the parent really should try and make them
understand what it's like there. A child who has been unschooled and never
in school could possibly be totally feaked out by one single day there.
Mary B
<<<> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or
summer
> > program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let themBut this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
> > learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.>>>>
I took this to say that one should probably prepare the child who wants to
go to school and has never been for what they are to experience while there.
I know my kids would be shell shocked even if they wanted to go and I just
sent them with no preparation at all. If they want to go and try that's
fine, but I do think that the parent really should try and make them
understand what it's like there. A child who has been unschooled and never
in school could possibly be totally feaked out by one single day there.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/04 10:16:23 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< But this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
If my kids wanted to hang out with horses, we would go to the stables. If
they wanted riding lessons, we would sign them up. >>
But maybe if one thought she wanted a horse you could arrange to let her take
care of one for a week and she might change her mind. I thought that was the
intent of the "let them try it" suggestion, and it did have "wink wink."
Holly was surprised in a summer dance camp (one week of long days) that she
could only eat when and where they let her, that she HAD to do what the other
girls did. She had expected it intellectually, but she hadn't really
experienced it. She had fun, but it made it easier for her to imagine school.
The dance camp days were longer than school days. I didn't tell her that. I
wasn't trying to be dishonest. But if I'd said "School's like this, but
you'd get out at 3:00 instead of 5:00!" it would've seemed (maybe) like me trying
to encourage her to want school. Had she asked what the differences were,
I'd've said school's less fun, but fewer hours too.
Sandra
<< But this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
If my kids wanted to hang out with horses, we would go to the stables. If
they wanted riding lessons, we would sign them up. >>
But maybe if one thought she wanted a horse you could arrange to let her take
care of one for a week and she might change her mind. I thought that was the
intent of the "let them try it" suggestion, and it did have "wink wink."
Holly was surprised in a summer dance camp (one week of long days) that she
could only eat when and where they let her, that she HAD to do what the other
girls did. She had expected it intellectually, but she hadn't really
experienced it. She had fun, but it made it easier for her to imagine school.
The dance camp days were longer than school days. I didn't tell her that. I
wasn't trying to be dishonest. But if I'd said "School's like this, but
you'd get out at 3:00 instead of 5:00!" it would've seemed (maybe) like me trying
to encourage her to want school. Had she asked what the differences were,
I'd've said school's less fun, but fewer hours too.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/8/04 10:48:58 AM, mjcmbrwn@... writes:
<< I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced. >>
I agree.
Sandra
<< I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced. >>
I agree.
Sandra
Susan Gallien
I agree it's not necessarily life threatening, and knowing they have an escape route makes it much better for the individual child. Even here in the States most schools aren't too bad. My school experience for myself and my children was in Australia and from what I know of schools here the ones back Down Under are much better for the inmates.
But, schools anywhere are a prison... where else but school do we lock people up and make them do someone else's bidding with little regard for the individuals freedom to do such basic things as go to the bathroom or have a drink when the needs arise.
Even the most enlightened school, if attendance is compulsory, is a place of torture for some of it's inmates... why risk it? Even if your child isn't one of the tortured, they witness it on a daily basis, human nature being what it is many teachers have favorite and least favorite kids in their class. The least favored know it, even if the teacher goes out of his/her way to not show his/her feelings.
I too have swum in shark infested waters, but I knew the way out, my children have done so too, but I wouldn't leave them alone there, so I guess the "Shark infested waters" was a bad example. If your child is one left intact by school, they are lucky, just watching the degrading treatment of others is a life changing experience... any "grading" of children at all harms the children, either they feel like failures or they feel superior. Those who go through many years as top of the class, straight A students are often as badly harmed as the dunces, see suicide statistics for college age kids if you don't believe me.
School hurts even the brightest kids, my oldest son was bored to death from first grade on and became very intolerant of people of even normal intelligence, he saw them as holding him back because the class had to progress at their rate not his. It caused my friendly outgoing preschooler to become a different person. Children change when they enter school, I always thought it was just something that happens at a certain age, but after sending 6 kids to school, and unschooling three I can tell you the change that happened with my older children was because of school, not a normal developmental thing.
School is toxic to many children.
Sue
My youngest child chose to go to school at 5.
school, but here in New Zealand at least, school is not a life
threatening place.
I also think that there is a vast difference in the effect of school on
a child who chooses to go to school compared to the one who is forced to
go to school. My son chose to go to school knowing he could leave and
be homeschooled when he wanted to - he lasted 5 weeks. My schooled
niece loved school and was sucessful there. When she had a major
personality conflict with a teacher, my sister told her that if she
wanted to, she could be homeschooled like her cousins. She chose to
stay at school, because overall she enjoyed it, and the offer of
homeschooling, the knowledge of an escape route, made it bearable. Once
the offer was made, she changed from being a very unhappy little girl,
to one whose attitude was, 'you gotta take to bad with the good'. But
it was HER attitude, not one my sister told her. She felt validated,
and knew she had a true choice, so she was okay.
I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced.
Cally
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
But, schools anywhere are a prison... where else but school do we lock people up and make them do someone else's bidding with little regard for the individuals freedom to do such basic things as go to the bathroom or have a drink when the needs arise.
Even the most enlightened school, if attendance is compulsory, is a place of torture for some of it's inmates... why risk it? Even if your child isn't one of the tortured, they witness it on a daily basis, human nature being what it is many teachers have favorite and least favorite kids in their class. The least favored know it, even if the teacher goes out of his/her way to not show his/her feelings.
I too have swum in shark infested waters, but I knew the way out, my children have done so too, but I wouldn't leave them alone there, so I guess the "Shark infested waters" was a bad example. If your child is one left intact by school, they are lucky, just watching the degrading treatment of others is a life changing experience... any "grading" of children at all harms the children, either they feel like failures or they feel superior. Those who go through many years as top of the class, straight A students are often as badly harmed as the dunces, see suicide statistics for college age kids if you don't believe me.
School hurts even the brightest kids, my oldest son was bored to death from first grade on and became very intolerant of people of even normal intelligence, he saw them as holding him back because the class had to progress at their rate not his. It caused my friendly outgoing preschooler to become a different person. Children change when they enter school, I always thought it was just something that happens at a certain age, but after sending 6 kids to school, and unschooling three I can tell you the change that happened with my older children was because of school, not a normal developmental thing.
School is toxic to many children.
Sue
My youngest child chose to go to school at 5.
>I would not allow my children to play on the freeway, I would not allow my children to swim in shark infested waters and I would not let them go to school before the age of about 15, when hopefully they could cope with the deprivation of liberty and seeing others degraded and humiliated because they aren't very bright.I do not think the examples given here are relevant. I don't like
>
school, but here in New Zealand at least, school is not a life
threatening place.
I also think that there is a vast difference in the effect of school on
a child who chooses to go to school compared to the one who is forced to
go to school. My son chose to go to school knowing he could leave and
be homeschooled when he wanted to - he lasted 5 weeks. My schooled
niece loved school and was sucessful there. When she had a major
personality conflict with a teacher, my sister told her that if she
wanted to, she could be homeschooled like her cousins. She chose to
stay at school, because overall she enjoyed it, and the offer of
homeschooling, the knowledge of an escape route, made it bearable. Once
the offer was made, she changed from being a very unhappy little girl,
to one whose attitude was, 'you gotta take to bad with the good'. But
it was HER attitude, not one my sister told her. She felt validated,
and knew she had a true choice, so she was okay.
I don't think school is a good place for human beings, but if the child
is in control of their presence there, I believe the damage is greatly
reduced.
Cally
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Diane
Thank you, Mary. I was sort of shocked by the perception. I wouldn't
throw my kids into school 6-8 hours a day 5 days a week without knowing
what my words even *mean* about things they've never experienced. T-ball
will be the most structure ever for my 6 year old.
:-) Diane
Mary wrote:
throw my kids into school 6-8 hours a day 5 days a week without knowing
what my words even *mean* about things they've never experienced. T-ball
will be the most structure ever for my 6 year old.
:-) Diane
Mary wrote:
>From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> <<<> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or
>summer
>
>
>>>program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let them
>>>learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out of.>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> But this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
>
>
>
>I took this to say that one should probably prepare the child who wants to
>go to school and has never been for what they are to experience while there.
>I know my kids would be shell shocked even if they wanted to go and I just
>sent them with no preparation at all. If they want to go and try that's
>fine, but I do think that the parent really should try and make them
>understand what it's like there. A child who has been unschooled and never
>in school could possibly be totally feaked out by one single day there.
>
>Mary B
>
J. Stauffer
<<<<A child who has been unschooled and never
I guess that is a possibility.
My kids are very strong individuals. I think it is the school that may be
totally freaked <grin>.
Julie S.
> in school could possibly be totally feaked out by one single daythere.>>>>>
I guess that is a possibility.
My kids are very strong individuals. I think it is the school that may be
totally freaked <grin>.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary" <mummy124@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] schooling in an unschooling home.
> From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
>
>
>
> <<<> Perhaps your kids would like a really structured spring break or
> summer
> > > program (to get them "ready" wink wink, for school) that would let
them
> > > learn some of these things in a format that's easier to drop out
of.>>>>
>
>
> But this seems so manipulative and dishonest to me.
>
>
>
> I took this to say that one should probably prepare the child who wants to
> go to school and has never been for what they are to experience while
there.
> I know my kids would be shell shocked even if they wanted to go and I just
> sent them with no preparation at all. If they want to go and try that's
> fine, but I do think that the parent really should try and make them
> understand what it's like there. A child who has been unschooled and never
> in school could possibly be totally feaked out by one single day there.
>
> Mary B
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
I wanted to respond. Maybe once upon a time K and 1st grade were fun,
and carefree, and consisted mainly of playing and learning the
alphabet. And maybe in some schools that is still true. It was not
true of my son's school. His K teacher was overly punitive and had
unrealistic expectations for behavior, and his 1st grade teacher was
spacey and forgetful and let the mean assistant run the classroom.
Recess was only 10 minutes long, and some of that time was taken away
for "bad" behavior. My son rarely got a full meal at lunch time, or
had time to eat it. The kids werent allowed to play with each other,
not really, not in class.
The harm it can do....my son refuses to do any kind of "school" type
work now. The most he's been able to swallow is about three pages of
Highlights Magazine. Anything that remotely looks like school, he
(mentally)runs screaming in the other direction(figuratively)...while
i am glad he wasnt brainwashed into thinking school is the way you
learn, i think that sometimes he is turning his back on some stuff he
would enjoy (like reading and writing and doing puzzlebooks and stuff
like that)because he thinks its "school." Unschoolers-from-birth
might look at these things as just "more colors in the big palette of
life" but my son sees it as "schoolish".He rarely picks up or looks
at any of the books/magazines/etc we have. While i think much of that
is his natural inclination (reading for information not pleasure for
example), and is of course totally ok with me, it makes me wonder
what kind of unschooler/"learner" he would have been without having
experienced school at all. I will never know....
I haven't read the other responses, so i don't know if this has been
said, but in your case i would point out that while the playground
looks like fun, the reality is not so fun. And if they want to play
with other kids (which seems to be their reason for wanting to go to
school?)i would suggest attending or starting a playgroup with other
homeschoolers. Playing on that playground with other HSers (esp other
unschoolers!)will be a totally different, and IMO better, experience
than going to school to do it. I wouldnt force them to HS next year,
of course, but i would do my best to try to meet whatever needs they
are expressing, outside of the school environment.
Katherine
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> We live near the school and what they see are kids on theplayground. I
> figure K and First are usually still fun and it is free and if thekids want
> to go have fun, what harm can it do? I don't expect them to stayvery long
> but we will see.This is an older post but i just got back home to my computer today.
>
> Julie S.
I wanted to respond. Maybe once upon a time K and 1st grade were fun,
and carefree, and consisted mainly of playing and learning the
alphabet. And maybe in some schools that is still true. It was not
true of my son's school. His K teacher was overly punitive and had
unrealistic expectations for behavior, and his 1st grade teacher was
spacey and forgetful and let the mean assistant run the classroom.
Recess was only 10 minutes long, and some of that time was taken away
for "bad" behavior. My son rarely got a full meal at lunch time, or
had time to eat it. The kids werent allowed to play with each other,
not really, not in class.
The harm it can do....my son refuses to do any kind of "school" type
work now. The most he's been able to swallow is about three pages of
Highlights Magazine. Anything that remotely looks like school, he
(mentally)runs screaming in the other direction(figuratively)...while
i am glad he wasnt brainwashed into thinking school is the way you
learn, i think that sometimes he is turning his back on some stuff he
would enjoy (like reading and writing and doing puzzlebooks and stuff
like that)because he thinks its "school." Unschoolers-from-birth
might look at these things as just "more colors in the big palette of
life" but my son sees it as "schoolish".He rarely picks up or looks
at any of the books/magazines/etc we have. While i think much of that
is his natural inclination (reading for information not pleasure for
example), and is of course totally ok with me, it makes me wonder
what kind of unschooler/"learner" he would have been without having
experienced school at all. I will never know....
I haven't read the other responses, so i don't know if this has been
said, but in your case i would point out that while the playground
looks like fun, the reality is not so fun. And if they want to play
with other kids (which seems to be their reason for wanting to go to
school?)i would suggest attending or starting a playgroup with other
homeschoolers. Playing on that playground with other HSers (esp other
unschoolers!)will be a totally different, and IMO better, experience
than going to school to do it. I wouldnt force them to HS next year,
of course, but i would do my best to try to meet whatever needs they
are expressing, outside of the school environment.
Katherine
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
school, and see if those needs could be met in other ways?
Sandra made a point about horses and i think thats perfect. If your
child says "i want a horse", you might want to help her explore ways
to meet that need, without going and buying a horse, if thats
possible. Maybe at some point buying a horse might be appropriate,
but i would think alot more discussion would have to happen between
"I want a horse!" and "ok lets go get one!"
The original post said something about a K age and PreK age kids
seeing schoolkids playing on the playground and wanting therefore to
go to school. Sounds to me like they want to play with other kids on
a playground. THAT is not school. I would hope that they would be
given more info about what school is(and what it is not)before they
were *signed up.* Others have pointed out that school is not the same
experience if you arent *forced* to be there, and i guess thats true.
The parent just needs to be careful not to get caught up in it and
start requiring homework etc.
I have another questions though....if my son chose to go to school,
it wouldnt just affect him, it would affect me too. I would have to
get up earlier, drive him to school, make sure i was there at 3pm to
pick him up, make sure he was wearing suitable clothing, make sure he
was wearing gym shoes on gym day and took his library books back on
the right day (i could never keep track of these things!)I would have
to make sure all his pants had zipper pockets otherwise he'd lose his
lunch money (this from experience), i would have to attend parent
teacher conferences. All those things are annoying and would really
detract from my life, esp the getting up early part. It would only be
worse if i had other kids....our days might have to revolve around
the school schedule. With older kids(teenagers)who could get
themselves to and from school, that might work, but for younger
ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
Katherine
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
>Of
> If the kids want to go to school, of course we will talk about it.
> course, I will miss them. But I will respect their individualityand sign
> them up.But wouldn't you first try to find out WHY they wanted to go to
>
> Julie S.
school, and see if those needs could be met in other ways?
Sandra made a point about horses and i think thats perfect. If your
child says "i want a horse", you might want to help her explore ways
to meet that need, without going and buying a horse, if thats
possible. Maybe at some point buying a horse might be appropriate,
but i would think alot more discussion would have to happen between
"I want a horse!" and "ok lets go get one!"
The original post said something about a K age and PreK age kids
seeing schoolkids playing on the playground and wanting therefore to
go to school. Sounds to me like they want to play with other kids on
a playground. THAT is not school. I would hope that they would be
given more info about what school is(and what it is not)before they
were *signed up.* Others have pointed out that school is not the same
experience if you arent *forced* to be there, and i guess thats true.
The parent just needs to be careful not to get caught up in it and
start requiring homework etc.
I have another questions though....if my son chose to go to school,
it wouldnt just affect him, it would affect me too. I would have to
get up earlier, drive him to school, make sure i was there at 3pm to
pick him up, make sure he was wearing suitable clothing, make sure he
was wearing gym shoes on gym day and took his library books back on
the right day (i could never keep track of these things!)I would have
to make sure all his pants had zipper pockets otherwise he'd lose his
lunch money (this from experience), i would have to attend parent
teacher conferences. All those things are annoying and would really
detract from my life, esp the getting up early part. It would only be
worse if i had other kids....our days might have to revolve around
the school schedule. With older kids(teenagers)who could get
themselves to and from school, that might work, but for younger
ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
Katherine
Kathleen Gehrke
> But if I do not trust my kids to make the "correct for them"choices about
> their education....then I am certainly no unschooler. I feel thatI must
> walk the walk.Julie I agree. That is how Megan went back. How could I force her to
>
> Julie S.
> >
> >
stay here, when she wanted to be there. I still hate ps, and even on
my visit there for her conference hated it. But I need to honor her
desire to do it.
ALthough I thought the summer program idea was good. Let then check
out how they like school.
Kathleen> >
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "queenjane555" <queenjane555@y...>
wrote:
With older kids(teenagers)who could get
that my younger kids have. I agree about the negative impact on the entire family. Just
having my teens go to school part time (high school) which involves my taking one round
trip 30 minute ride in the car interrupts my day with the younger kids enough that it is
really irksome.
One other time I sent my daughter on a school field trip with a friend (in third grade) and
that one experience put her off of school for another five years! :) The same daughter is
now part time enrolled in high school. She wanted to go full time but we discussed
starting with parttime to see how she likes it. One year has convinced her she never wants
to go full time. :) But she is glad that she now knows what school is really like from her
own experience.
Julie
wrote:
With older kids(teenagers)who could get
> themselves to and from school, that might work, but for youngerWe've been a part of a co-op that meets once a week that has helped to meet that "need"
> ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
> would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
> really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
> school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
> would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
that my younger kids have. I agree about the negative impact on the entire family. Just
having my teens go to school part time (high school) which involves my taking one round
trip 30 minute ride in the car interrupts my day with the younger kids enough that it is
really irksome.
One other time I sent my daughter on a school field trip with a friend (in third grade) and
that one experience put her off of school for another five years! :) The same daughter is
now part time enrolled in high school. She wanted to go full time but we discussed
starting with parttime to see how she likes it. One year has convinced her she never wants
to go full time. :) But she is glad that she now knows what school is really like from her
own experience.
Julie
J. Stauffer
<<<<If my child's "need for
wanting to go to school for years. She gets together with other hs kids,
she has friends over, she goes to church, she is on a gymnastics team, we
have work books at home if she wants them....she wants to see what the deal
is about school. If she is unhappy, I will gladly get her out by lunch.
Someone posted about the inconvenience to the family if the kids go to
school.....I am quite used to be inconvenienced for my kids. We are at the
gym daily, park days weekly, 4-H meetings constantly.....it is what I do. I
wouldn't have some different "rules" for school.
Julie S.----who truly expects the kids to go for a few weeks and never want
to go back
> school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, iWell, yeah, I thought that was kind of basic. My 7yo has talked about
> would explore that first, instead signing my child up for >>>>
wanting to go to school for years. She gets together with other hs kids,
she has friends over, she goes to church, she is on a gymnastics team, we
have work books at home if she wants them....she wants to see what the deal
is about school. If she is unhappy, I will gladly get her out by lunch.
Someone posted about the inconvenience to the family if the kids go to
school.....I am quite used to be inconvenienced for my kids. We are at the
gym daily, park days weekly, 4-H meetings constantly.....it is what I do. I
wouldn't have some different "rules" for school.
Julie S.----who truly expects the kids to go for a few weeks and never want
to go back
----- Original Message -----
From: "queenjane555" <queenjane555@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:39 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: schooling in an unschooling home.
> --- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
> <jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> >
> > If the kids want to go to school, of course we will talk about it.
> Of
> > course, I will miss them. But I will respect their individuality
> and sign
> > them up.
> >
> > Julie S.
>
>
> But wouldn't you first try to find out WHY they wanted to go to
> school, and see if those needs could be met in other ways?
>
> Sandra made a point about horses and i think thats perfect. If your
> child says "i want a horse", you might want to help her explore ways
> to meet that need, without going and buying a horse, if thats
> possible. Maybe at some point buying a horse might be appropriate,
> but i would think alot more discussion would have to happen between
> "I want a horse!" and "ok lets go get one!"
>
> The original post said something about a K age and PreK age kids
> seeing schoolkids playing on the playground and wanting therefore to
> go to school. Sounds to me like they want to play with other kids on
> a playground. THAT is not school. I would hope that they would be
> given more info about what school is(and what it is not)before they
> were *signed up.* Others have pointed out that school is not the same
> experience if you arent *forced* to be there, and i guess thats true.
> The parent just needs to be careful not to get caught up in it and
> start requiring homework etc.
>
> I have another questions though....if my son chose to go to school,
> it wouldnt just affect him, it would affect me too. I would have to
> get up earlier, drive him to school, make sure i was there at 3pm to
> pick him up, make sure he was wearing suitable clothing, make sure he
> was wearing gym shoes on gym day and took his library books back on
> the right day (i could never keep track of these things!)I would have
> to make sure all his pants had zipper pockets otherwise he'd lose his
> lunch money (this from experience), i would have to attend parent
> teacher conferences. All those things are annoying and would really
> detract from my life, esp the getting up early part. It would only be
> worse if i had other kids....our days might have to revolve around
> the school schedule. With older kids(teenagers)who could get
> themselves to and from school, that might work, but for younger
> ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
> would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
> really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
> school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
> would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
>
>
> Katherine
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
nellebelle
>>>>....she wants to see what the deal is about school.>>>>>>That is the story here. My 11 year old wants to go to school for a week or
two to experience for herself what it is like.
She plans to go at the beginning of next school year (Sep 2004). She would
be 6th grade based on her birthdate, and that is the first year of middle
school in our area. It was my idea to try it at the beginning of a school
year, rather than dropping in during the year. Good idea? Bad idea?
Her previous school experience includes one half year of one day per week
preschool at age 3(we moved during the year) and one semester, two years
ago, of 45 minute art class once a week at the local elementary. From the
art class, she learned that you get only a few minutes to talk with the
other kids, you spend a lot of time sitting and waiting for the other kids
to quiet down so the teacher can make sure everyone hears what she has to
say, and that you need to do things the teacher's way.
But she still wants to go again to experience what life is like for kids at
school all day.
I am nervous about it. What if she likes it and wants to continue? I will
feel that I've failed at unschooling if she prefers to be at school.
It's hard to know how best to support a child doing something that I'd
rather she wouldn't do. I could refuse to let her go, but that doesn't feel
right either.
Mary Ellen
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "J. Stauffer"
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
"We live near the school and what they see are kids on the
playground. If figure K and First are usually still fun and it is
free and if the kids want to go have fun, what harm can it do? I
don't expect them to stay very long but we will see."
I don't always keep the posters' names here straight, so i didnt
assume that you had already done what was "basic"....what i read from
the above statement was that your kids see other (school)kids playing
on the playground, and they want to go have fun with those kids.My
interpretation of this was that they wanted to play with other kids.
IMO his is not a "good" reason for wanting to go to school, because
in most schools you *dont* get to play with other kids, except for a
few minutes at recess. Even in Kindergarten, many schools are
"cracking down" and starting in with academics. You wrote the word
"fun" twice in the above paragraph, and i guess i am still confused
about that. Why do your kids think school will be fun? I guess since
my son had some pretty negative experiences (mostly due to two
teachers' crappy personalities)in K and 1st grade, we don't feel like
"fun" is the word that best describes school. I suppose i could see
how a never-schooled child might be curious about it. What do they
feel they are going to "get" from going to school? Or is it, for
them, just wanting to try something new?
I also agree that it probably won't do much harm for them to go, as
long as they are free to immediately leave when they want. I would
let the teacher know that too. They might be nicer if they know the
kid has a choice. And maybe they would get a really nice teacher whom
they adored.
Again, now that you've explained i understand better, but from your
first few posts, the impression i got was "my kids want to play, so
why shouldnt i send them to school, since its so much fun? I wouldnt
be a good unschooling mom if i said no...." Sorry if i misunderstood.
Katherine
<jnjstau@g...> wrote:
> Well, yeah, I thought that was kind of basic. My 7yo has talkedIn my initial post, i was responding to what you wrote, which is this:
>about wanting to go to school for years. She gets together with
>other hs kids, she has friends over, she goes to church, she is on a
>gymnastics team, we have work books at home if she wants them....she
>wants to see what the deal is about school. If she is unhappy, I
>will gladly get her out by lunch.
"We live near the school and what they see are kids on the
playground. If figure K and First are usually still fun and it is
free and if the kids want to go have fun, what harm can it do? I
don't expect them to stay very long but we will see."
I don't always keep the posters' names here straight, so i didnt
assume that you had already done what was "basic"....what i read from
the above statement was that your kids see other (school)kids playing
on the playground, and they want to go have fun with those kids.My
interpretation of this was that they wanted to play with other kids.
IMO his is not a "good" reason for wanting to go to school, because
in most schools you *dont* get to play with other kids, except for a
few minutes at recess. Even in Kindergarten, many schools are
"cracking down" and starting in with academics. You wrote the word
"fun" twice in the above paragraph, and i guess i am still confused
about that. Why do your kids think school will be fun? I guess since
my son had some pretty negative experiences (mostly due to two
teachers' crappy personalities)in K and 1st grade, we don't feel like
"fun" is the word that best describes school. I suppose i could see
how a never-schooled child might be curious about it. What do they
feel they are going to "get" from going to school? Or is it, for
them, just wanting to try something new?
I also agree that it probably won't do much harm for them to go, as
long as they are free to immediately leave when they want. I would
let the teacher know that too. They might be nicer if they know the
kid has a choice. And maybe they would get a really nice teacher whom
they adored.
Again, now that you've explained i understand better, but from your
first few posts, the impression i got was "my kids want to play, so
why shouldnt i send them to school, since its so much fun? I wouldnt
be a good unschooling mom if i said no...." Sorry if i misunderstood.
Katherine
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/04 12:47:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
queenjane555@... writes:
The original post said something about a K age and PreK age kids
seeing schoolkids playing on the playground and wanting therefore to
go to school. Sounds to me like they want to play with other kids on
a playground. THAT is not school. I would hope that they would be
given more info about what school is(and what it is not)before they
were *signed up.* Others have pointed out that school is not the same
experience if you arent *forced* to be there, and i guess thats true.
The parent just needs to be careful not to get caught up in it and
start requiring homework etc.
#########
Jack wanted to go to school when he was five. All the kids on our block who
were his age were going. They were getting all sorts of cool bookbags, colorful
crayons, new clothes... Against my feelings about school Darin and I signed
him up with the idea that if we were truly allowing our children the freedom to
explore and experience life on their terms we certainly couldn't hold them
back from this either. I don't know how much information you can impart on a
child that age, about school. Much like getting a pet and expecting a child that
age to totally care for it and understand it, you can't expect a child of five
to understand your moral, religious, political, mental reasons about school.
Nor can you expect a child of five to understand the implications of hours and
minutes and lines to stand in and lunch at 11:35 and recess at 1:15 and
sitting beside a bully on the bus. So while giving a child of five information on
what school is and isn't is all well and good you might as well try and explain
the quantum field theory. And while I am not advocating school, at the age of
five it is really something that has to be experienced to understand. At
other ages it would certainly be easier to explain.
We explained all we could about school. Jack still wanted to go. So the day I
registered him I went to Sandra's site and reread her article about her
sister, mustered my courage and explained to his teacher and the principle that
while I was enrolling Jack, I understood his want to go to school most likely
stemmed from wanting to play with his friends, and that I had no expectations
other than I wanted Jack to be happy. I explained our educational "philosophy"
and that grades and meeting standards meant nothing to me. His teacher, bless
her, got it. The principal OTOH, didn't. No biggie. We made it to the end of the
year unscathed. Though I would have taken Jack home at any point in those 180
days if he wanted me to do so. The only problem we had was at the end of the
year the principal wanted more than was required by Kansas law for me to take
him out. We worked that out too. I asked Jack if he had plans to go on to
first grade and here is a quote from my journal on what he said.
"In kindergarten we get to sit a tables and color and paint, and we get to
play popcorn bingo on the story carpet, and we have a bathroom in our room if we
need it. In kindergarten we get out of school ten minutes before the big kids
and we get to sit at the front in assemblies. In kindergarten we get to
listen to music quietly all day long unless someone else ruins it for us. I like
kindergarten." And I said yes Jack all that is true. Then Jack said; "In first
grade we have to sit at desks right? And Mrs. Latimer wouldn't be my teacher
right? In first grade there isn't a bathroom in the room and there isn't a story
carpet either. And in first grade we don't get to eat lunch until 12:45. I
eat at 11:30 in kindergarten and I eat when I want at home, I don't think I want
to go to first grade." And I said but what about your friends Jack? And my
wise little man said "I get to play with them more at home than at school anyway
Mom."
(Exactly what I told him the previous summer, but he had to experience it for
himself to really "know" it.)
###########
I have another questions though....if my son chose to go to school,
it wouldnt just affect him, it would affect me too. I would have to
get up earlier, drive him to school, make sure i was there at 3pm to
pick him up, make sure he was wearing suitable clothing, make sure he
was wearing gym shoes on gym day and took his library books back on
the right day (i could never keep track of these things!)I would have
to make sure all his pants had zipper pockets otherwise he'd lose his
lunch money (this from experience), i would have to attend parent
teacher conferences. All those things are annoying and would really
detract from my life, esp the getting up early part. It would only be
worse if i had other kids....our days might have to revolve around
the school schedule. With older kids(teenagers)who could get
themselves to and from school, that might work, but for younger
ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
Katherine
#############
Yep all those things are true, but if a child does decide that school is
where they want to be those things don't have to be true or rather they don't have
to be true to the point of making your life miserable. If a child wanted
lessons in something or to play on a team you would have to make sure uniforms
were clean to wear and money paid to the association or coach or teacher and
arrange transportation to and from. Sorta-kinda the same as school. Be a duck! Let
it roll off your back like water does on a duck!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555@... writes:
The original post said something about a K age and PreK age kids
seeing schoolkids playing on the playground and wanting therefore to
go to school. Sounds to me like they want to play with other kids on
a playground. THAT is not school. I would hope that they would be
given more info about what school is(and what it is not)before they
were *signed up.* Others have pointed out that school is not the same
experience if you arent *forced* to be there, and i guess thats true.
The parent just needs to be careful not to get caught up in it and
start requiring homework etc.
#########
Jack wanted to go to school when he was five. All the kids on our block who
were his age were going. They were getting all sorts of cool bookbags, colorful
crayons, new clothes... Against my feelings about school Darin and I signed
him up with the idea that if we were truly allowing our children the freedom to
explore and experience life on their terms we certainly couldn't hold them
back from this either. I don't know how much information you can impart on a
child that age, about school. Much like getting a pet and expecting a child that
age to totally care for it and understand it, you can't expect a child of five
to understand your moral, religious, political, mental reasons about school.
Nor can you expect a child of five to understand the implications of hours and
minutes and lines to stand in and lunch at 11:35 and recess at 1:15 and
sitting beside a bully on the bus. So while giving a child of five information on
what school is and isn't is all well and good you might as well try and explain
the quantum field theory. And while I am not advocating school, at the age of
five it is really something that has to be experienced to understand. At
other ages it would certainly be easier to explain.
We explained all we could about school. Jack still wanted to go. So the day I
registered him I went to Sandra's site and reread her article about her
sister, mustered my courage and explained to his teacher and the principle that
while I was enrolling Jack, I understood his want to go to school most likely
stemmed from wanting to play with his friends, and that I had no expectations
other than I wanted Jack to be happy. I explained our educational "philosophy"
and that grades and meeting standards meant nothing to me. His teacher, bless
her, got it. The principal OTOH, didn't. No biggie. We made it to the end of the
year unscathed. Though I would have taken Jack home at any point in those 180
days if he wanted me to do so. The only problem we had was at the end of the
year the principal wanted more than was required by Kansas law for me to take
him out. We worked that out too. I asked Jack if he had plans to go on to
first grade and here is a quote from my journal on what he said.
"In kindergarten we get to sit a tables and color and paint, and we get to
play popcorn bingo on the story carpet, and we have a bathroom in our room if we
need it. In kindergarten we get out of school ten minutes before the big kids
and we get to sit at the front in assemblies. In kindergarten we get to
listen to music quietly all day long unless someone else ruins it for us. I like
kindergarten." And I said yes Jack all that is true. Then Jack said; "In first
grade we have to sit at desks right? And Mrs. Latimer wouldn't be my teacher
right? In first grade there isn't a bathroom in the room and there isn't a story
carpet either. And in first grade we don't get to eat lunch until 12:45. I
eat at 11:30 in kindergarten and I eat when I want at home, I don't think I want
to go to first grade." And I said but what about your friends Jack? And my
wise little man said "I get to play with them more at home than at school anyway
Mom."
(Exactly what I told him the previous summer, but he had to experience it for
himself to really "know" it.)
###########
I have another questions though....if my son chose to go to school,
it wouldnt just affect him, it would affect me too. I would have to
get up earlier, drive him to school, make sure i was there at 3pm to
pick him up, make sure he was wearing suitable clothing, make sure he
was wearing gym shoes on gym day and took his library books back on
the right day (i could never keep track of these things!)I would have
to make sure all his pants had zipper pockets otherwise he'd lose his
lunch money (this from experience), i would have to attend parent
teacher conferences. All those things are annoying and would really
detract from my life, esp the getting up early part. It would only be
worse if i had other kids....our days might have to revolve around
the school schedule. With older kids(teenagers)who could get
themselves to and from school, that might work, but for younger
ones...it would really negatively impact the family i think. So i
would want to make sure that my child truly understood this, and
really truly wanted to make this choice. If my child's "need for
school" could be met by getting together to play with other HSers, i
would explore that first, instead signing my child up for school.
Katherine
#############
Yep all those things are true, but if a child does decide that school is
where they want to be those things don't have to be true or rather they don't have
to be true to the point of making your life miserable. If a child wanted
lessons in something or to play on a team you would have to make sure uniforms
were clean to wear and money paid to the association or coach or teacher and
arrange transportation to and from. Sorta-kinda the same as school. Be a duck! Let
it roll off your back like water does on a duck!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kristi Hayes
Hi there! Well, I had planned to lurk a bit longer before introducing
myself, but because the schooling issue is the biggest Im struggling
with right now, I thought now would be a good time to jump in!
Im Kristi, semi-crunchy unschooling mama to Morgaine, 4 ½, Orion, two
next week, and Isaac, 1 month. Were in the seacoast of New Hampshire.
Morgaine is academically reasonably precocious for her age, which helps
my homeschooling case with family at least (unsupportive mother lives
locally) since she is already reading a bit, writing, adding,
subtracting, etc. and wont be school age this year with her October 20
birthday. That said, Ive had my mother, other family, and strangers
really pushing the school is cool mantra with her, plus most of her
friends are in preschool. She is really angry that she cant go to
preschool and public school doesnt understand the age limitations,
really, since everyone keeps telling her she can go to school this year.
Also even if I *wanted* to send her to preschool, we probably couldnt
justify the expense right now anyway, and I certainly wouldnt send her
to head start.
So weve also been having school issues. There are times she gets
pretty upset, but shell ask me, if I want to go to public school when
Im 16, can I? and that settles things a bit.
Im wondering if part of the reason some people (like me) really balk at
the idea of sending kids to school is that we might be a little afraid
they wont want to come back home to stay? Homeschooling is something I
have felt strongly about for years, which has led me to unschooling; if
she chooses school in my home it is still within the confines of the
choices I have made for her; if she chooses to leave home several hours
a day it is not, iykwim?
Anyway, thats us, and thanks for all the great discussion to read!
This is the only list I actually receive into my inbox; the rest I am
always nomail, but there are several posts I have already put aside into
a references folder.
Kristi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myself, but because the schooling issue is the biggest Im struggling
with right now, I thought now would be a good time to jump in!
Im Kristi, semi-crunchy unschooling mama to Morgaine, 4 ½, Orion, two
next week, and Isaac, 1 month. Were in the seacoast of New Hampshire.
Morgaine is academically reasonably precocious for her age, which helps
my homeschooling case with family at least (unsupportive mother lives
locally) since she is already reading a bit, writing, adding,
subtracting, etc. and wont be school age this year with her October 20
birthday. That said, Ive had my mother, other family, and strangers
really pushing the school is cool mantra with her, plus most of her
friends are in preschool. She is really angry that she cant go to
preschool and public school doesnt understand the age limitations,
really, since everyone keeps telling her she can go to school this year.
Also even if I *wanted* to send her to preschool, we probably couldnt
justify the expense right now anyway, and I certainly wouldnt send her
to head start.
So weve also been having school issues. There are times she gets
pretty upset, but shell ask me, if I want to go to public school when
Im 16, can I? and that settles things a bit.
Im wondering if part of the reason some people (like me) really balk at
the idea of sending kids to school is that we might be a little afraid
they wont want to come back home to stay? Homeschooling is something I
have felt strongly about for years, which has led me to unschooling; if
she chooses school in my home it is still within the confines of the
choices I have made for her; if she chooses to leave home several hours
a day it is not, iykwim?
Anyway, thats us, and thanks for all the great discussion to read!
This is the only list I actually receive into my inbox; the rest I am
always nomail, but there are several posts I have already put aside into
a references folder.
Kristi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
Jayn (4.5) has occasionally expressed an interest in school. One of the
biggest discouragements of that has been how our neighbor (in Kindergarten)
always has to stop playing and be dragged back home to "do her homework". I
have sometimes told Jayn what she would not be able to do if she were in
school - like choose her own games, or play water as long as she wanted.
At one point, about 5 months ago I guess, she was wanting to pretend school
with me as the teacher, so I created a math class (her request), sitting at
her desk, by writing some 1 + 1 = 2 stuff on a small whiteboard, and getting
out the cuisinaire rods. For only about three or four minutes I "instructed"
her about the numbers, and writing them down, having to continue to remind
her what she should be doing. She started to go off on a tangent, and I
immediately explained that she would not be allowed to do that in school,
and did she want to keep pretending school or do her own playing. She chose
her own playing (making plenty of number connections with the rods all by
herself as usual). Recently she has become quite vocal about how she will
"never go to school" and started feeling sorry for the kids, bless her
heart!
I also point out lies that stem from schooling whenever they pop up - for
example on Max and Ruby, (on which you have heard from me before) Ruby says
"You have to go to school to learn how to mix paint colors" in a patent
attempt to control Max's behavior. I couldn't let that pass, and reminded
Jayn that she mixes colors all the time, without school, and has frequently
come to me with her mixing discoveries.
Since Jayn is presently going to bed about 4-5am (thanks in part to "spring
forward") and getting up at 2pm, it is just as well that she is not in
school. Her most "enriched" play seems to come very late at night - what
would be considered after dinner if our timetable were normal. Thank
goodness that time is not being taken up with arbitrary homework!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 1/24/2004
biggest discouragements of that has been how our neighbor (in Kindergarten)
always has to stop playing and be dragged back home to "do her homework". I
have sometimes told Jayn what she would not be able to do if she were in
school - like choose her own games, or play water as long as she wanted.
At one point, about 5 months ago I guess, she was wanting to pretend school
with me as the teacher, so I created a math class (her request), sitting at
her desk, by writing some 1 + 1 = 2 stuff on a small whiteboard, and getting
out the cuisinaire rods. For only about three or four minutes I "instructed"
her about the numbers, and writing them down, having to continue to remind
her what she should be doing. She started to go off on a tangent, and I
immediately explained that she would not be allowed to do that in school,
and did she want to keep pretending school or do her own playing. She chose
her own playing (making plenty of number connections with the rods all by
herself as usual). Recently she has become quite vocal about how she will
"never go to school" and started feeling sorry for the kids, bless her
heart!
I also point out lies that stem from schooling whenever they pop up - for
example on Max and Ruby, (on which you have heard from me before) Ruby says
"You have to go to school to learn how to mix paint colors" in a patent
attempt to control Max's behavior. I couldn't let that pass, and reminded
Jayn that she mixes colors all the time, without school, and has frequently
come to me with her mixing discoveries.
Since Jayn is presently going to bed about 4-5am (thanks in part to "spring
forward") and getting up at 2pm, it is just as well that she is not in
school. Her most "enriched" play seems to come very late at night - what
would be considered after dinner if our timetable were normal. Thank
goodness that time is not being taken up with arbitrary homework!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 1/24/2004
Have a Nice Day!
Recently she has become quite vocal about how she will
"never go to school" and started feeling sorry for the kids, bless her
heart!
***********
My 12 year old used to want to go to school. She would often feel that I
wasn't "doing my job" of teaching her. I've decided its the age, bec. my
son went through the same thing.
But now, she seems to have gone to the opposite extreme. School SUCKS, etc
etc. And last night she was telling a friend "schools think you have to
have 180 days of school, WE don't do that", dissing school, but also it
seemed, dissing learning.
I turned around and said, "Well, WE have *365* days of attendance here". She
said "We do?", with a quizzical look.
And I looked at her and her friend and said "We don't sit down with books
and assignments 180 days a year. Instead, we live each day and we learn
because its fun and we enjoy it, and we squeeze learning out of every single
minute of every single day.
I'm not sure if she gets it yet, but thats ok.
Kristen
"never go to school" and started feeling sorry for the kids, bless her
heart!
***********
My 12 year old used to want to go to school. She would often feel that I
wasn't "doing my job" of teaching her. I've decided its the age, bec. my
son went through the same thing.
But now, she seems to have gone to the opposite extreme. School SUCKS, etc
etc. And last night she was telling a friend "schools think you have to
have 180 days of school, WE don't do that", dissing school, but also it
seemed, dissing learning.
I turned around and said, "Well, WE have *365* days of attendance here". She
said "We do?", with a quizzical look.
And I looked at her and her friend and said "We don't sit down with books
and assignments 180 days a year. Instead, we live each day and we learn
because its fun and we enjoy it, and we squeeze learning out of every single
minute of every single day.
I'm not sure if she gets it yet, but thats ok.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: schooling in an unschooling home.
> Jayn (4.5) has occasionally expressed an interest in school. One of the
> biggest discouragements of that has been how our neighbor (in
Kindergarten)
> always has to stop playing and be dragged back home to "do her homework".
I
> have sometimes told Jayn what she would not be able to do if she were in
> school - like choose her own games, or play water as long as she wanted.
> At one point, about 5 months ago I guess, she was wanting to pretend
school
> with me as the teacher, so I created a math class (her request), sitting
at
> her desk, by writing some 1 + 1 = 2 stuff on a small whiteboard, and
getting
> out the cuisinaire rods. For only about three or four minutes I
"instructed"
> her about the numbers, and writing them down, having to continue to remind
> her what she should be doing. She started to go off on a tangent, and I
> immediately explained that she would not be allowed to do that in school,
> and did she want to keep pretending school or do her own playing. She
chose
> her own playing (making plenty of number connections with the rods all by
> herself as usual). Recently she has become quite vocal about how she will
> "never go to school" and started feeling sorry for the kids, bless her
> heart!
> I also point out lies that stem from schooling whenever they pop up - for
> example on Max and Ruby, (on which you have heard from me before) Ruby
says
> "You have to go to school to learn how to mix paint colors" in a patent
> attempt to control Max's behavior. I couldn't let that pass, and reminded
> Jayn that she mixes colors all the time, without school, and has
frequently
> come to me with her mixing discoveries.
> Since Jayn is presently going to bed about 4-5am (thanks in part to
"spring
> forward") and getting up at 2pm, it is just as well that she is not in
> school. Her most "enriched" play seems to come very late at night - what
> would be considered after dinner if our timetable were normal. Thank
> goodness that time is not being taken up with arbitrary homework!
> Robyn L. Coburn
>
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[email protected]
> >>>>....she wants to see what the deal is about school.>>>>>>Ever since we started homeschooling, my daughter has taken summer classes at a private school about 30 minutes away. The classes only last two weeks, and she picks one that starts at 1:00 in the afternoon since she doesn't like getting up early. The public school system does the same type of thing. It gives her a chance to be part of a herd. She's nine now, but still just loves packing her lunch, getting dropped off with a teacher, being part of a herd--all that stuff! By the way, the first summer we were homeschoolers, she kept going on and on about how she wanted to go to school, but it was summer! She was too young to understand that, so I offered a summer program at the local private school (one mile from our house). The class started at 8:30. She sat glaring at her breakfast on the third day and said, "This is just like school!" Let me tell you, it was not a compliment!! That was the last time I ever heard her say she wanted to go back to school! Deirdre
>
> That is the story here. My 11 year old wants to go to school for a week or
> two to experience for herself what it is like.
>
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
was still in first grade, i was picking him up from his afterschool
program, and when he told a little girl there he was quitting to
homeschool, she was horrified "But if you don't go to school, you
can't learn anything! You'll be stupid!!" Even my brilliant little
niece who is almost 9yo (who has decided she believes in the sun god
Ra)said that you really NEEDED to go to school, if you want to learn.
(My son just doesnt understand why everyone doesnt quit school, he
understands how parents force kids, but is baffled why kids
themselves would buy into the lie.)
Forcing him awake at 8am (shouldve been earlier), fighting with him
to wake him up and get him dressed and out the door, always fast food
for breakfast, drop off at 9:15a. I got out of work about 5-5:30p if
i was lucky, pick him up from afterschool program, maybe go grocery
shopping or out to eat, home, maybe a movie or a bath, and then it
was bedtime. On the weekends it was running errands, trying to keep
the house from being a pigsty, going to the laundromat....then it
would be sunday night and the week would start all over again. I felt
like my life was being sucked from me and we were having almost no
fun at all. Luckily i completely gave up on having him do
homework...of course he promptly told the teacher "My mom says i
don't HAVE to do homework!!" in front of the other kids. She didnt
really appreciate that.;o)
Katherine
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> I also point out lies that stem from schooling whenever they pop upI am still so surprised when this stuff comes up though. When seamus
>for example on Max and Ruby, (on which you have heard from me
>before) Ruby says "You have to go to school to learn how to mix
>paint colors" in a patent attempt to control Max's behavior. I
>couldn't let that pass, and reminded Jayn that she mixes colors all
>the time, without school, and has frequently come to me with her
>mixing discoveries.
was still in first grade, i was picking him up from his afterschool
program, and when he told a little girl there he was quitting to
homeschool, she was horrified "But if you don't go to school, you
can't learn anything! You'll be stupid!!" Even my brilliant little
niece who is almost 9yo (who has decided she believes in the sun god
Ra)said that you really NEEDED to go to school, if you want to learn.
(My son just doesnt understand why everyone doesnt quit school, he
understands how parents force kids, but is baffled why kids
themselves would buy into the lie.)
> Since Jayn is presently going to bed about 4-5am (thanks in part toYep, seamus too! When i think back to our former life, boy it sucked.
>"spring forward") and getting up at 2pm, it is just as well that she
>is not in school.
Forcing him awake at 8am (shouldve been earlier), fighting with him
to wake him up and get him dressed and out the door, always fast food
for breakfast, drop off at 9:15a. I got out of work about 5-5:30p if
i was lucky, pick him up from afterschool program, maybe go grocery
shopping or out to eat, home, maybe a movie or a bath, and then it
was bedtime. On the weekends it was running errands, trying to keep
the house from being a pigsty, going to the laundromat....then it
would be sunday night and the week would start all over again. I felt
like my life was being sucked from me and we were having almost no
fun at all. Luckily i completely gave up on having him do
homework...of course he promptly told the teacher "My mom says i
don't HAVE to do homework!!" in front of the other kids. She didnt
really appreciate that.;o)
Katherine