children as humans was Re: Maryland unschoolers heading to MHEA?
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/04 8:50:49 AM, Wilkinson6@... writes:
<< She kept referring to her biracial adopted child
as "my biracial adopted daughter" (over and over. >>
EEEK!
A homeschooling family here (not unschoolers, and I lost contact after a few
years of them hanging out with my kids) had two "little Russians" and their
"little Korean."
YUCK! Horrible. Like a Barbie collection. "My Malibu Barbie."
But with Barbies, y'know, they're all named "Barbie." And humans tend to
have individual real names and I think parents should use them.
Sometimes I call Marty "my mid kid" but that's just because it's poetic and
when I do that I'm about to talk about middle children's situations.
I don't know. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment because I have three
bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't do that.
There's another family lately similar and I don't want to say more because I hope
she'll come join this list.
Then, though, I had a kind of opposite situation where a new-to-homeschooling
mom did NOT mention that her son was adopted and so she had not a speck of
genetic similarity and when I met him I could see clearly (as anyone else could
see clearly from 100 paces) that he was adopted, and he wasn't too thrilled
about it either. Fifteen year old, dressing and acting like a gang member, had
NO discernable social or emotional connection with his mom, and she hadn't
thought to mention that when she wasted an hour and a half of my phone and e-mail
time batting away every suggestion I made.
Not that she should have said "my orphaned hispanic kid" but in her case it
made a difference. She was uptight yankee intellectual and he is quite
different and could not've been poured into her mold in any way.
Sociology professor, and none of that had seemed to occur to her?
He's 15, though, and practically a man. Too late for her to create a
relationship with him. His relationship is with the other special ed kids at
school, and those who prey on them.
Maybe he was treated as a human other than the one he is. I don't know.
It's sad. It's hard.
I bought Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach, which Pam
Sorooshian has recommended before. I haven't read all of it, but what I have read
is a lot like things people say here about BEING with your kid and treating
them as you would treat another adult. The advantage is it's really published,
not by unschoolers, and not just on a webpage. One of the authors has a PhD,
so maybe it will help some families accept it.
Treating kids "like kids" in the traditional way seems damaging all by
itself. If they're discounted and shunted aside and told to hush and told to wait,
it builds up and can't be undone. And I can't help but think "my biracial
adopted child" and "my little Russian" might feel a degree of lack of acceptance
as a person after being designated in that separated way.
Sandra
<< She kept referring to her biracial adopted child
as "my biracial adopted daughter" (over and over. >>
EEEK!
A homeschooling family here (not unschoolers, and I lost contact after a few
years of them hanging out with my kids) had two "little Russians" and their
"little Korean."
YUCK! Horrible. Like a Barbie collection. "My Malibu Barbie."
But with Barbies, y'know, they're all named "Barbie." And humans tend to
have individual real names and I think parents should use them.
Sometimes I call Marty "my mid kid" but that's just because it's poetic and
when I do that I'm about to talk about middle children's situations.
I don't know. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment because I have three
bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't do that.
There's another family lately similar and I don't want to say more because I hope
she'll come join this list.
Then, though, I had a kind of opposite situation where a new-to-homeschooling
mom did NOT mention that her son was adopted and so she had not a speck of
genetic similarity and when I met him I could see clearly (as anyone else could
see clearly from 100 paces) that he was adopted, and he wasn't too thrilled
about it either. Fifteen year old, dressing and acting like a gang member, had
NO discernable social or emotional connection with his mom, and she hadn't
thought to mention that when she wasted an hour and a half of my phone and e-mail
time batting away every suggestion I made.
Not that she should have said "my orphaned hispanic kid" but in her case it
made a difference. She was uptight yankee intellectual and he is quite
different and could not've been poured into her mold in any way.
Sociology professor, and none of that had seemed to occur to her?
He's 15, though, and practically a man. Too late for her to create a
relationship with him. His relationship is with the other special ed kids at
school, and those who prey on them.
Maybe he was treated as a human other than the one he is. I don't know.
It's sad. It's hard.
I bought Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach, which Pam
Sorooshian has recommended before. I haven't read all of it, but what I have read
is a lot like things people say here about BEING with your kid and treating
them as you would treat another adult. The advantage is it's really published,
not by unschoolers, and not just on a webpage. One of the authors has a PhD,
so maybe it will help some families accept it.
Treating kids "like kids" in the traditional way seems damaging all by
itself. If they're discounted and shunted aside and told to hush and told to wait,
it builds up and can't be undone. And I can't help but think "my biracial
adopted child" and "my little Russian" might feel a degree of lack of acceptance
as a person after being designated in that separated way.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<<< Maybe he was treated as a human other than the one he is. >>>>>
Oh my. I really needed to hear this today.
Julie S.---who has had tiffs with her 7yo all morning long
Oh my. I really needed to hear this today.
Julie S.---who has had tiffs with her 7yo all morning long
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 11:01 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland
unschoolers heading to MHEA?
>
> In a message dated 4/2/04 8:50:49 AM, Wilkinson6@... writes:
>
> << She kept referring to her biracial adopted child
>
> as "my biracial adopted daughter" (over and over. >>
>
> EEEK!
>
> A homeschooling family here (not unschoolers, and I lost contact after a
few
> years of them hanging out with my kids) had two "little Russians" and
their
> "little Korean."
>
> YUCK! Horrible. Like a Barbie collection. "My Malibu Barbie."
>
> But with Barbies, y'know, they're all named "Barbie." And humans tend to
> have individual real names and I think parents should use them.
>
> Sometimes I call Marty "my mid kid" but that's just because it's poetic
and
> when I do that I'm about to talk about middle children's situations.
>
> I don't know. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment because I have three
> bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't do
that.
> There's another family lately similar and I don't want to say more because
I hope
> she'll come join this list.
>
> Then, though, I had a kind of opposite situation where a
new-to-homeschooling
> mom did NOT mention that her son was adopted and so she had not a speck of
> genetic similarity and when I met him I could see clearly (as anyone else
could
> see clearly from 100 paces) that he was adopted, and he wasn't too
thrilled
> about it either. Fifteen year old, dressing and acting like a gang
member, had
> NO discernable social or emotional connection with his mom, and she hadn't
> thought to mention that when she wasted an hour and a half of my phone and
> time batting away every suggestion I made.
>
> Not that she should have said "my orphaned hispanic kid" but in her case
it
> made a difference. She was uptight yankee intellectual and he is quite
> different and could not've been poured into her mold in any way.
>
> Sociology professor, and none of that had seemed to occur to her?
> He's 15, though, and practically a man. Too late for her to create a
> relationship with him. His relationship is with the other special ed kids
at
> school, and those who prey on them.
>
> Maybe he was treated as a human other than the one he is. I don't know.
> It's sad. It's hard.
>
> I bought Parent/Teen Breakthrough: The Relationship Approach, which Pam
> Sorooshian has recommended before. I haven't read all of it, but what I
have read
> is a lot like things people say here about BEING with your kid and
treating
> them as you would treat another adult. The advantage is it's really
published,
> not by unschoolers, and not just on a webpage. One of the authors has a
PhD,
> so maybe it will help some families accept it.
>
> Treating kids "like kids" in the traditional way seems damaging all by
> itself. If they're discounted and shunted aside and told to hush and told
to wait,
> it builds up and can't be undone. And I can't help but think "my biracial
> adopted child" and "my little Russian" might feel a degree of lack of
acceptance
> as a person after being designated in that separated way.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
B & S Nowicke
As a mom (via adoption) I feel the need to chime in on this one....
I don't generally refer to my kids as my "adopted kid(s)" - Although in some arenas it is the norm in order to discuss challenges/issues brought on by abuses during the pregnancy or after birth - and not be accused of these atrocities. You'd be surprised at what people will say to you when they recognize yr child as having a challenge that is caused by say - alcohol abuse during pregnancy!
I have encountered in public places - (oddly seems bathrooms at the zoo and mall are a fav spot for people to do this) - people saying to me of my girls - "Oh - they're adopted aren't they?" Not always in a nice tone! Once in a blue moon it is followed up by a positive comment - like "Oh you're so blessed." or questions as to the infertility issues or the "how's" of adoption. The latter of which all 4 of my kids are more than happy to tell them about {G}. I think that we personally draw particular attention since my dd's are identical triplets - but that's different can of worms.
When used as a regular identifier of a child (esp. in front of the child)- perhaps in place of their name - it is a sure sign of a maladjusted or troubled parent/grandparent (which is a definite negative for the child). I do find it to be more common (in public) in people who have kids with significant behavior issues or some type of physical challenge - as if to say - "this isn't my fault" - unfairly foisting the "problem" on the child.
Just my 2 cents.
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't generally refer to my kids as my "adopted kid(s)" - Although in some arenas it is the norm in order to discuss challenges/issues brought on by abuses during the pregnancy or after birth - and not be accused of these atrocities. You'd be surprised at what people will say to you when they recognize yr child as having a challenge that is caused by say - alcohol abuse during pregnancy!
I have encountered in public places - (oddly seems bathrooms at the zoo and mall are a fav spot for people to do this) - people saying to me of my girls - "Oh - they're adopted aren't they?" Not always in a nice tone! Once in a blue moon it is followed up by a positive comment - like "Oh you're so blessed." or questions as to the infertility issues or the "how's" of adoption. The latter of which all 4 of my kids are more than happy to tell them about {G}. I think that we personally draw particular attention since my dd's are identical triplets - but that's different can of worms.
When used as a regular identifier of a child (esp. in front of the child)- perhaps in place of their name - it is a sure sign of a maladjusted or troubled parent/grandparent (which is a definite negative for the child). I do find it to be more common (in public) in people who have kids with significant behavior issues or some type of physical challenge - as if to say - "this isn't my fault" - unfairly foisting the "problem" on the child.
Just my 2 cents.
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Wilkinson
<<I don't know. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment because I have
three
bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't
do that.>>
I had that feeling too, while listening to her. My kids are all
biological. Maybe this is normal practice among adopters???
I told my cousins wife a few weeks later about it. She said that
was really weird/disturbing. They adopted their first child after
years of infertility. Of coarse, a couple of months after the
adoption, she got pregnant with their son.
She never makes a distinction and said she rarely evens thinks about
it. Her dd knows she's adopted, but it's not in her intro.
She laughed about the biracial part. She said, "didn't you know
Sage is our biracial adopted daughter?" I looked at her perplexed.
This child looks as white as it gets. They had specifically asked
for a biracial child when looking to adopt. The birth mother told
them the father was black. They were there for the birth and when
she came out, they were a little confused but thought she would
develope more features of her father as she got older.
At her first ped. appointment she mentioned her biracialness to the
dr. She said he laughed, and told her he really doubted this child
was biracial. It doesn't make any real difference, but it was funny
how the stories connected.
Joanna
three
bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't
do that.>>
I had that feeling too, while listening to her. My kids are all
biological. Maybe this is normal practice among adopters???
I told my cousins wife a few weeks later about it. She said that
was really weird/disturbing. They adopted their first child after
years of infertility. Of coarse, a couple of months after the
adoption, she got pregnant with their son.
She never makes a distinction and said she rarely evens thinks about
it. Her dd knows she's adopted, but it's not in her intro.
She laughed about the biracial part. She said, "didn't you know
Sage is our biracial adopted daughter?" I looked at her perplexed.
This child looks as white as it gets. They had specifically asked
for a biracial child when looking to adopt. The birth mother told
them the father was black. They were there for the birth and when
she came out, they were a little confused but thought she would
develope more features of her father as she got older.
At her first ped. appointment she mentioned her biracialness to the
dr. She said he laughed, and told her he really doubted this child
was biracial. It doesn't make any real difference, but it was funny
how the stories connected.
Joanna
SHERRY LANGEVIN
You'd be surprised at what people will say to you when they recognize yr child as having a challenge that is caused by say - alcohol abuse during pregnancy!
. . . yeh, I've been there, too! Many folks speak before thinking . . .
I have encountered in public places - (oddly seems bathrooms at the zoo and mall are a fav spot for people to do this) - people saying to me of my girls - "Oh - they're adopted aren't they?" Not always in a nice tone!
. . . you're right about bathrooms; when my two children were smaller, frequently, in the bathroom of some public place or fast food restauraunt, I would hear a little voice from outside of the stall-- 'Mommy, why does that lady have two different color children?' And even in grocery store, and elderly women (pushed in a wheel chair by daughter) 'why--they're different colors!' (the mothers usually hush them and leave quickly, and the daughter pushing the wheelchair said, "WHY YES MOTHER! THOSE PLUMS ARE ALL DIFFERENT COLORS!"
I couldn't help myself but to laugh outloud. As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff they hear at home.
I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard Connie Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents' though that wasn't even what the story was about.
Sherry,
mom to two little girls, one typically developing and the other special needs (but both very typical and special to me)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
. . . yeh, I've been there, too! Many folks speak before thinking . . .
I have encountered in public places - (oddly seems bathrooms at the zoo and mall are a fav spot for people to do this) - people saying to me of my girls - "Oh - they're adopted aren't they?" Not always in a nice tone!
. . . you're right about bathrooms; when my two children were smaller, frequently, in the bathroom of some public place or fast food restauraunt, I would hear a little voice from outside of the stall-- 'Mommy, why does that lady have two different color children?' And even in grocery store, and elderly women (pushed in a wheel chair by daughter) 'why--they're different colors!' (the mothers usually hush them and leave quickly, and the daughter pushing the wheelchair said, "WHY YES MOTHER! THOSE PLUMS ARE ALL DIFFERENT COLORS!"
I couldn't help myself but to laugh outloud. As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff they hear at home.
I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard Connie Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents' though that wasn't even what the story was about.
Sherry,
mom to two little girls, one typically developing and the other special needs (but both very typical and special to me)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: "SHERRY LANGEVIN" <luckymermaid@...>
<<I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard Connie
Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was
adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents'
though that wasn't even what the story was about.>>
One thing I always thought was special was how Marie Osmond talked about her
kids. Seems like some interviewers always bring up how many natural children
and how many adopted. She always said she has so many she can't remember!!!
I liked that she didn't differentiate.
Mary B
<<I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard Connie
Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was
adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents'
though that wasn't even what the story was about.>>
One thing I always thought was special was how Marie Osmond talked about her
kids. Seems like some interviewers always bring up how many natural children
and how many adopted. She always said she has so many she can't remember!!!
I liked that she didn't differentiate.
Mary B
Joanna Wilkinson
'Mommy, why does that lady have two different color children?' And
even in grocery store, and elderly women (pushed in a wheel chair by
daughter) 'why--they're different colors!' (the mothers usually hush
them and leave quickly, and the daughter pushing the wheelchair
said, "WHY YES MOTHER! THOSE PLUMS ARE ALL DIFFERENT COLORS!"
<< I couldn't help myself but to laugh outloud.>>
Absolutely. It's funny!
<<As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff
they hear at home.>>
Not necessarily.
My son Jack always notices differences. When he was younger (2-4)
it was color, or size of people, mostly. He would come up and ask
them questions or ask me questions. He talks to anyone he can to
find out whatever "why" he has in his head. He's 7 now.
Color and size no longer intrigue him. If he sees a handicapped
person or someone doing something he hasn't seen before, he asks
lots of questions usually to the person, if they aren't available,
I'm his second source.
We have never had a negative experience with his curiosity.
I find kids to be refreshing. When my son Sam died, adults were at
a loss for words, uncomfortable around us. Kids said things to me
that adults would never say.
One little girls asked all kinds of questions about what we were
going to do with his stuff and his room. Another boy, who had
played with Sam at a family camp we go to said he wanted to come to
our house. I said "sure, next time you come to our town." He
said, "I wish I could have come when Sam was there". I said, "me
too". Another mom, who was standing there, thought I was going to
be upset. I wasn't at all.
I find kids to be so honest that I feel more honest with my feeling
around them.
The other day, we were at an indoor pool with some other families.
One of the boys, as I was walking by him, said, "So how's Sam doing?"
I looked at him with suprise, then when I saw the honest interest on
his face and remembered he had just been to his grave a few days
before (I found a picture he had drawn for him there) I said, " I
think he's doing pretty well." His poor mother looked mortified.
Anyway, my point is, kids are just honest. They are curious. They
see beyond the proper way to do things and get their information
without fear.
It's a good trait.
Joanna
even in grocery store, and elderly women (pushed in a wheel chair by
daughter) 'why--they're different colors!' (the mothers usually hush
them and leave quickly, and the daughter pushing the wheelchair
said, "WHY YES MOTHER! THOSE PLUMS ARE ALL DIFFERENT COLORS!"
>LOL!
<< I couldn't help myself but to laugh outloud.>>
Absolutely. It's funny!
<<As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff
they hear at home.>>
Not necessarily.
My son Jack always notices differences. When he was younger (2-4)
it was color, or size of people, mostly. He would come up and ask
them questions or ask me questions. He talks to anyone he can to
find out whatever "why" he has in his head. He's 7 now.
Color and size no longer intrigue him. If he sees a handicapped
person or someone doing something he hasn't seen before, he asks
lots of questions usually to the person, if they aren't available,
I'm his second source.
We have never had a negative experience with his curiosity.
I find kids to be refreshing. When my son Sam died, adults were at
a loss for words, uncomfortable around us. Kids said things to me
that adults would never say.
One little girls asked all kinds of questions about what we were
going to do with his stuff and his room. Another boy, who had
played with Sam at a family camp we go to said he wanted to come to
our house. I said "sure, next time you come to our town." He
said, "I wish I could have come when Sam was there". I said, "me
too". Another mom, who was standing there, thought I was going to
be upset. I wasn't at all.
I find kids to be so honest that I feel more honest with my feeling
around them.
The other day, we were at an indoor pool with some other families.
One of the boys, as I was walking by him, said, "So how's Sam doing?"
I looked at him with suprise, then when I saw the honest interest on
his face and remembered he had just been to his grave a few days
before (I found a picture he had drawn for him there) I said, " I
think he's doing pretty well." His poor mother looked mortified.
Anyway, my point is, kids are just honest. They are curious. They
see beyond the proper way to do things and get their information
without fear.
It's a good trait.
Joanna
Diane
I don't understand this. If the kids are repeating stuff they hear at
home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Is this
something they should already know about? What did they presumably learn
at home that made them notice that?
Yes, it's tactless to ask at the time, but they're kids. Should they not
notice? I really don't understand. My kids are just starting to notice
skin color and are asking if they'll get to be dark brown when they get
older. I've told them as they get older they'll look a lot like their
Dad and me, and as they get older yet, they'll look a lot like their
grandparents. I think they'd really notice two kids in the same family
that are different colors.
Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that have
different colors prefer to hear? What would your (anyone with different
skin colors in the family) family think it's important for my kids (as
monochrome family members) to know? What would they know or say that you
would find offensive?
Hopefully, the questions aren't hopelessly offensive.
:-) Diane
home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Is this
something they should already know about? What did they presumably learn
at home that made them notice that?
Yes, it's tactless to ask at the time, but they're kids. Should they not
notice? I really don't understand. My kids are just starting to notice
skin color and are asking if they'll get to be dark brown when they get
older. I've told them as they get older they'll look a lot like their
Dad and me, and as they get older yet, they'll look a lot like their
grandparents. I think they'd really notice two kids in the same family
that are different colors.
Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that have
different colors prefer to hear? What would your (anyone with different
skin colors in the family) family think it's important for my kids (as
monochrome family members) to know? What would they know or say that you
would find offensive?
Hopefully, the questions aren't hopelessly offensive.
:-) Diane
> . . . you're right about bathrooms; when my two children were smaller, frequently, in the bathroom of some public place or fast food restauraunt, I would hear a little voice from outside of the stall-- 'Mommy, why does that lady have two different color children?'. . .
>
>As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff they hear at home.
>
Susan Gallien
I don't think there's anything wrong with kids commenting on different skin colors, it's nothing to do with prejudice, just childhood curiosity... many years ago I had a child ask me why my kids had different colored hair, my daughter had straight` hair so blonde that it was almost white while her big brother had dark ringlets. Why would it be any worse for a child to comment on different skin colors than different hair colors?
Sue Gallien
The Winona Farm, Minnesota
http://thewinonafarm.com
Sue Gallien
The Winona Farm, Minnesota
http://thewinonafarm.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland unschoolers heading to MHEA?
I don't understand this. If the kids are repeating stuff they hear at
home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Is this
something they should already know about? What did they presumably learn
at home that made them notice that?
Yes, it's tactless to ask at the time, but they're kids. Should they not
notice? I really don't understand. My kids are just starting to notice
skin color and are asking if they'll get to be dark brown when they get
older. I've told them as they get older they'll look a lot like their
Dad and me, and as they get older yet, they'll look a lot like their
grandparents. I think they'd really notice two kids in the same family
that are different colors.
Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that have
different colors prefer to hear? What would your (anyone with different
skin colors in the family) family think it's important for my kids (as
monochrome family members) to know? What would they know or say that you
would find offensive?
Hopefully, the questions aren't hopelessly offensive.
:-) Diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
queenjane555
--- In [email protected], Diane <cen46624@v...>
wrote:
kids were learning at home, but rather what they were NOT learning.
If a child lives in a really integrated area, and/or is familiar with
families of "nontraditional" makeup, they would probably be less
likely to wonder how a black kid and a white kid could both come from
the same mother. Just like a kid who has regular contact with, say,
gay people, would be less likely to say "mom, why are those two men
holding hands??" Or a kid who has lots of homeschooled friends might
be less likely to say "whaddya mean you don't go to school?? How do
you LEARN??"
My 9 yo niece was shocked when my son told her everyone in his
(former)class was black, except for him. She asked "EVEN the
teacher?? But i mean, your teacher was white right?" Nope. She didnt
think having a black teacher was bad or wrong, she just couldnt wrap
her mind around it.
My son has had tons of contact/interaction with people who have
varying degrees of disability, both mental and physical, due to my
former job. Now that he is 7yo, he wouldnt dream of asking a
question about a wheelchair, or "why does that person talk funny",
because he knows the answer. I've always been really upfront and
honest about what mental retardation is, the different causes, what
traumatic brain injury is, what schizophrenia is. A child that had
never met or really got to know a person who is disabled would
obviously have alot more questions/curiosity about it.
I think most people would be happy to answer a child's honest
question about *whatever* (adoption, disability, etc)...the problem i
think occurs when the other parent tries to "shush" the child, or
drags the child away, as if the thing the child is curious about is
something shameful. My child had made a comment about something once,
i think it might have been a hook or something, some kind of prothesis
(sp??)that he'd never seen IRL before, and i just matter of factly
said in a normal tone of voice what it was for.
I haven't adopted but its been a lifelong plan of mine...i really
hope to adopt a boy between 5-10 sometime in the next couple of
years. Anyhow, i wonder if part of the comments parents make about
their "Korean" child or "biracial" child isnt a misguided attempt to
"recognize their child's heritage" and not just pretend the child is
white like everyone else in the family. Years ago there used to be
this belief that "color doesnt matter" or that "love is color blind"
and that there were no additional issues when a child of color is
added to a family of another race. Now the emphasis is on really
recognizing and celebrating that difference.Thats not saying its good
to define a child by their ethnicity, or adoption status. And the
homestudy/adoption process is supposed to teach parents how to handle
these situations. But unfortunately there are probably some adoptive
parents out there who pride themselves in taking in a "poor
biracial child" or "poor third world orphan." I think there are
appropriately places to identify adopted children, country of origin
etc (such as in adoption forums)but in most settings its probably
irrelevant. Kind of like how if you are posting on a special needs
forum you might say "mom of 5 year old autistic son" but wouldnt
introduce him to the bank teller by saying "this is my autistic son."
Katherine
wrote:
> I don't understand this. If the kids are repeating stuff they hearat
> home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Isthis
> something they should already know about? What did they presumablylearn
> at home that made them notice that?I got the impression the original poster didnt mean so much what the
kids were learning at home, but rather what they were NOT learning.
If a child lives in a really integrated area, and/or is familiar with
families of "nontraditional" makeup, they would probably be less
likely to wonder how a black kid and a white kid could both come from
the same mother. Just like a kid who has regular contact with, say,
gay people, would be less likely to say "mom, why are those two men
holding hands??" Or a kid who has lots of homeschooled friends might
be less likely to say "whaddya mean you don't go to school?? How do
you LEARN??"
My 9 yo niece was shocked when my son told her everyone in his
(former)class was black, except for him. She asked "EVEN the
teacher?? But i mean, your teacher was white right?" Nope. She didnt
think having a black teacher was bad or wrong, she just couldnt wrap
her mind around it.
My son has had tons of contact/interaction with people who have
varying degrees of disability, both mental and physical, due to my
former job. Now that he is 7yo, he wouldnt dream of asking a
question about a wheelchair, or "why does that person talk funny",
because he knows the answer. I've always been really upfront and
honest about what mental retardation is, the different causes, what
traumatic brain injury is, what schizophrenia is. A child that had
never met or really got to know a person who is disabled would
obviously have alot more questions/curiosity about it.
I think most people would be happy to answer a child's honest
question about *whatever* (adoption, disability, etc)...the problem i
think occurs when the other parent tries to "shush" the child, or
drags the child away, as if the thing the child is curious about is
something shameful. My child had made a comment about something once,
i think it might have been a hook or something, some kind of prothesis
(sp??)that he'd never seen IRL before, and i just matter of factly
said in a normal tone of voice what it was for.
I haven't adopted but its been a lifelong plan of mine...i really
hope to adopt a boy between 5-10 sometime in the next couple of
years. Anyhow, i wonder if part of the comments parents make about
their "Korean" child or "biracial" child isnt a misguided attempt to
"recognize their child's heritage" and not just pretend the child is
white like everyone else in the family. Years ago there used to be
this belief that "color doesnt matter" or that "love is color blind"
and that there were no additional issues when a child of color is
added to a family of another race. Now the emphasis is on really
recognizing and celebrating that difference.Thats not saying its good
to define a child by their ethnicity, or adoption status. And the
homestudy/adoption process is supposed to teach parents how to handle
these situations. But unfortunately there are probably some adoptive
parents out there who pride themselves in taking in a "poor
biracial child" or "poor third world orphan." I think there are
appropriately places to identify adopted children, country of origin
etc (such as in adoption forums)but in most settings its probably
irrelevant. Kind of like how if you are posting on a special needs
forum you might say "mom of 5 year old autistic son" but wouldnt
introduce him to the bank teller by saying "this is my autistic son."
Katherine
Tara
I have a wonderful children's book called "All the Colors of the
Earth", that compares skin/hair/eye color and differences to all
other colors found in nature. It is poetic, and beautifully
illustrated. I cry everytime I read it to my son, it is so
beautiful. It is also about family, and the love of children. I
would highly recommend this book to anyone with young kids. - Tara
--- In [email protected], "Susan Gallien"
<susan@t...> wrote:
childhood curiosity... many years ago I had a child ask me why my
kids had different colored hair, my daughter had straight` hair so
blonde that it was almost white while her big brother had dark
ringlets. Why would it be any worse for a child to comment on
different skin colors than different hair colors?
Earth", that compares skin/hair/eye color and differences to all
other colors found in nature. It is poetic, and beautifully
illustrated. I cry everytime I read it to my son, it is so
beautiful. It is also about family, and the love of children. I
would highly recommend this book to anyone with young kids. - Tara
--- In [email protected], "Susan Gallien"
<susan@t...> wrote:
> I don't think there's anything wrong with kids commenting ondifferent skin colors, it's nothing to do with prejudice, just
childhood curiosity... many years ago I had a child ask me why my
kids had different colored hair, my daughter had straight` hair so
blonde that it was almost white while her big brother had dark
ringlets. Why would it be any worse for a child to comment on
different skin colors than different hair colors?
>Maryland unschoolers heading to MHEA?
> Sue Gallien
> The Winona Farm, Minnesota
> http://thewinonafarm.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diane
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re:
>hear at
>
> I don't understand this. If the kids are repeating stuff they
> home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Isthis
> something they should already know about? What did theypresumably learn
> at home that made them notice that?they not
>
> Yes, it's tactless to ask at the time, but they're kids. Should
> notice? I really don't understand. My kids are just starting tonotice
> skin color and are asking if they'll get to be dark brown whenthey get
> older. I've told them as they get older they'll look a lot liketheir
> Dad and me, and as they get older yet, they'll look a lot liketheir
> grandparents. I think they'd really notice two kids in the samefamily
> that are different colors.have
>
> Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that
> different colors prefer to hear? What would your (anyone withdifferent
> skin colors in the family) family think it's important for mykids (as
> monochrome family members) to know? What would they know or saythat you
> would find offensive?
>
> Hopefully, the questions aren't hopelessly offensive.
>
> :-) Diane
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/04 7:59:56 PM, Wilkinson6@... writes:
<< One of the boys, as I was walking by him, said, "So how's Sam doing?"
I looked at him with suprise, then when I saw the honest interest on
his face and remembered he had just been to his grave a few days
before (I found a picture he had drawn for him there) I said, " I
think he's doing pretty well." >>
That's so interesting!
Do you think that it was his normal reminder to moms that he knew their child
(a kind of "how's it going" without thought to the literal meaning of the
words) or do you think he assumes that mothers are in close contact with their
kids regardless of any other circumstances? Or what?
Cool story, and cool response.
I hope the boy's mother didn't harangue him later.
Sandra
<< One of the boys, as I was walking by him, said, "So how's Sam doing?"
I looked at him with suprise, then when I saw the honest interest on
his face and remembered he had just been to his grave a few days
before (I found a picture he had drawn for him there) I said, " I
think he's doing pretty well." >>
That's so interesting!
Do you think that it was his normal reminder to moms that he knew their child
(a kind of "how's it going" without thought to the literal meaning of the
words) or do you think he assumes that mothers are in close contact with their
kids regardless of any other circumstances? Or what?
Cool story, and cool response.
I hope the boy's mother didn't harangue him later.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<maybe that is a normal practice among adopters?>>
I assure you, it is not.
Julie S.--adoptive mom to 5 fantastic people
I assure you, it is not.
Julie S.--adoptive mom to 5 fantastic people
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joanna Wilkinson" <Wilkinson6@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland
unschoolers heading to MHEA?
> <<I don't know. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment because I have
> three
> bio-kids and none adopted, but I just wish adoptive parents wouldn't
> do that.>>
>
> I had that feeling too, while listening to her. My kids are all
> biological. Maybe this is normal practice among adopters???
> I told my cousins wife a few weeks later about it. She said that
> was really weird/disturbing. They adopted their first child after
> years of infertility. Of coarse, a couple of months after the
> adoption, she got pregnant with their son.
> She never makes a distinction and said she rarely evens thinks about
> it. Her dd knows she's adopted, but it's not in her intro.
> She laughed about the biracial part. She said, "didn't you know
> Sage is our biracial adopted daughter?" I looked at her perplexed.
> This child looks as white as it gets. They had specifically asked
> for a biracial child when looking to adopt. The birth mother told
> them the father was black. They were there for the birth and when
> she came out, they were a little confused but thought she would
> develope more features of her father as she got older.
> At her first ped. appointment she mentioned her biracialness to the
> dr. She said he laughed, and told her he really doubted this child
> was biracial. It doesn't make any real difference, but it was funny
> how the stories connected.
> Joanna
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents' though that wasn't
even what the story was about.>>>
We do this sometimes because we maintain very close ties with our kids'
birthfamilies. Sometimes it just makes things clearer to people listening.
Adriane refers to her birthmom's new husband as her step-birthdad. Go
figure <grin>
Julie S.
even what the story was about.>>>
We do this sometimes because we maintain very close ties with our kids'
birthfamilies. Sometimes it just makes things clearer to people listening.
Adriane refers to her birthmom's new husband as her step-birthdad. Go
figure <grin>
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "SHERRY LANGEVIN" <luckymermaid@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland
unschoolers heading to MHEA?
>
> You'd be surprised at what people will say to you when they recognize yr
child as having a challenge that is caused by say - alcohol abuse during
pregnancy!
> . . . yeh, I've been there, too! Many folks speak before thinking . . .
>
>
> I have encountered in public places - (oddly seems bathrooms at the zoo
and mall are a fav spot for people to do this) - people saying to me of my
girls - "Oh - they're adopted aren't they?" Not always in a nice tone!
> . . . you're right about bathrooms; when my two children were smaller,
frequently, in the bathroom of some public place or fast food restauraunt, I
would hear a little voice from outside of the stall-- 'Mommy, why does that
lady have two different color children?' And even in grocery store, and
elderly women (pushed in a wheel chair by daughter) 'why--they're different
colors!' (the mothers usually hush them and leave quickly, and the daughter
pushing the wheelchair said, "WHY YES MOTHER! THOSE PLUMS ARE ALL DIFFERENT
COLORS!"
>
> I couldn't help myself but to laugh outloud. As for the children who
speak out, they're only repeating stuff they hear at home.
>
> I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard Connie
Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was
adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents'
though that wasn't even what the story was about.
>
> Sherry,
>
> mom to two little girls, one typically developing and the other special
needs (but both very typical and special to me)
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<<Seems like some interviewers always bring up how many natural children
adopted is different than biological. You are dealing with very different
genetics, with a child's feelings for a parent that didn't choose to raise
them or for a parent that treated them so poorly the state took them away.
You have to be ready to deal with the moment when your child is angry and
says they wished they lived with their birthparents. Adoption comes with a
lot of baggage.....good baggage and difficult baggage but sometimes a heavy
load for a little kid nonetheless.
I might tell a reporter that ALL my kids came to me in different
ways....vaginal, cesaerean, adoption, etc... But I wouldn't want to say
that how each of them came to me wasn't special and something to be
remembered. My kids love to talk about the day I met them and things they
do that are just like their birthparents.
Just my thoughts.
Julie S.
> and how many adopted. She always said she has so many she can'tremember!!!
> I liked that she didn't differentiate.>>>>I understand not wanting to put your children's lives out in public.....but
adopted is different than biological. You are dealing with very different
genetics, with a child's feelings for a parent that didn't choose to raise
them or for a parent that treated them so poorly the state took them away.
You have to be ready to deal with the moment when your child is angry and
says they wished they lived with their birthparents. Adoption comes with a
lot of baggage.....good baggage and difficult baggage but sometimes a heavy
load for a little kid nonetheless.
I might tell a reporter that ALL my kids came to me in different
ways....vaginal, cesaerean, adoption, etc... But I wouldn't want to say
that how each of them came to me wasn't special and something to be
remembered. My kids love to talk about the day I met them and things they
do that are just like their birthparents.
Just my thoughts.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary" <mummy124@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland
unschoolers heading to MHEA?
> From: "SHERRY LANGEVIN" <luckymermaid@...>
>
> <<I dont intro. my kids as 'my adopted children.' Once on TV I heard
Connie
> Chung talking about her 'adopted child' and was interviewing a man who was
> adopted at birth. She referred to his parents as his 'adoptive parents'
> though that wasn't even what the story was about.>>
>
>
> One thing I always thought was special was how Marie Osmond talked about
her
> kids. Seems like some interviewers always bring up how many natural
children
> and how many adopted. She always said she has so many she can't
remember!!!
> I liked that she didn't differentiate.
>
> Mary B
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
>>>> Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that haveI wish that parents wouldn't be so offended that their children notice
> different colors prefer to hear? >>>>
different skin colors. Shelly is half-black and she looks it. She is
gorgeous and I think when parents act like their kids shouldn't notice, it
sends a message to their kids and to Shelly that something is wrong with her
being in our family.
I usually just talk to kids who make comments about how some people have
light skin and some have dark. How people have different colored eyes or
hair and leave it at that.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diane" <cen46624@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] children as humans was Re: Maryland
unschoolers heading to MHEA?
> I don't understand this. If the kids are repeating stuff they hear at
> home, why are they asking why the kids are different colors. Is this
> something they should already know about? What did they presumably learn
> at home that made them notice that?
>
> Yes, it's tactless to ask at the time, but they're kids. Should they not
> notice? I really don't understand. My kids are just starting to notice
> skin color and are asking if they'll get to be dark brown when they get
> older. I've told them as they get older they'll look a lot like their
> Dad and me, and as they get older yet, they'll look a lot like their
> grandparents. I think they'd really notice two kids in the same family
> that are different colors.
>
> Perhaps a better question to ask is what would families that have
> different colors prefer to hear? What would your (anyone with different
> skin colors in the family) family think it's important for my kids (as
> monochrome family members) to know? What would they know or say that you
> would find offensive?
>
> Hopefully, the questions aren't hopelessly offensive.
>
> :-) Diane
>
> > . . . you're right about bathrooms; when my two children were smaller,
frequently, in the bathroom of some public place or fast food restauraunt, I
would hear a little voice from outside of the stall-- 'Mommy, why does that
lady have two different color children?'
> >
> . . .
>
> >As for the children who speak out, they're only repeating stuff they hear
at home.
> >
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Joanna Wilkinson
> Do you think that it was his normal reminder to moms that he knewtheir child
> (a kind of "how's it going" without thought to the literalmeaning of the
> words) or do you think he assumes that mothers are in closecontact with their
> kids regardless of any other circumstances? Or what?I thought about that too. I think it was the assuming I must know
cause I'm his mom.
>Me too. I don't think so though. I asked her to watch Jack while I
> Cool story, and cool response.
>
> I hope the boy's mother didn't harangue him later.
>
> Sandra
took Jamie to the bathroom. Jamie finished and ran back to the pool
before I was finished. I assumed they would see her and also
assumed she couldn't get over the 1/2 wall around the pool. (she
couldn't when she had her water wings on) But, I had a nagging
feeling to hurry up back to the pool. I got there and asked where
Jamie was and looked at the pool at the same time.
There she was, just under the water near the steps with a panic in
her eyes. I jumped the wall and jumped into the pool and got her.
I don't know how long she was there. She was fine though. She had
had water wings on before the bathroom and that classic thing
happened. She forgot she didn't have them on and went right in and
off the steps. There were about 8 kids in the pool and seeing one
under wouldn't stand out right away unless you knew they were in
there and were keeping an eye on them. She had walked right by this
mom and she didn't notice her. I couldn't do anything but hold her,
standing in the pool, fully dressed for quite a while, then I got
out and sat there hugging her for even longer. The other moms I was
with were waiting for me to freak out. Other than shaking a lot I
was fine. I know this mom felt horrible. She wasn't responsible
for Jamie, but since she was suppose to be watching Jack (and her
own kids) you think she would have noticed.
So, she probably harangued herself ;-)
Joanna - whose wearing a bathing suit next time we go to the pool.
Dawn Adams
Sue writes:
I don't think there's anything wrong with kids commenting on different skin colors, it's nothing to do with prejudice, just childhood curiosity... many years ago I had a child ask me why my kids had different colored hair, my daughter had straight` hair so blonde that it was almost white while her big brother had dark ringlets. Why would it be any worse for a child to comment on different skin colors than different hair colors?
One funny encounter though...An encounter no two adults could have had...We were walking through a dollar store and a girl about my daughter's age saw Catherine and the eye patch she wears and as she walked by she asked, "Why are you wearing that patch?" Catherine just shrugged and said, "Oh, it's so my eye will heal." And that was it. They were both satisfied, neither was offended and they both went on their way. Can you imagine how awkward two adults would have felt?
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't think there's anything wrong with kids commenting on different skin colors, it's nothing to do with prejudice, just childhood curiosity... many years ago I had a child ask me why my kids had different colored hair, my daughter had straight` hair so blonde that it was almost white while her big brother had dark ringlets. Why would it be any worse for a child to comment on different skin colors than different hair colors?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I agree. I think it's definately prefferable to stares or such. My daughter used to love wheelchairs and always had a comment about them when she saw someone in one. No one was ever offended.
One funny encounter though...An encounter no two adults could have had...We were walking through a dollar store and a girl about my daughter's age saw Catherine and the eye patch she wears and as she walked by she asked, "Why are you wearing that patch?" Catherine just shrugged and said, "Oh, it's so my eye will heal." And that was it. They were both satisfied, neither was offended and they both went on their way. Can you imagine how awkward two adults would have felt?
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]