Bedtimes...
Erika Nunn
Hey all,
I have a question for everybody. First off, our household is way more
relaxed ever since I let go of controlling my kid's eating, TV watching,
bedtimes (my kids are ages 3 and 4). I am happier, my husband is happier,
and my kids are happier. However, there is still one event that takes place
every evening that seems to still send everybody into a tizzy. The simple
act of brushing my children's teeth and getting them into something
comfortable to wear to bed.
It usually goes something like this....I get tired and inform my children
that I am going to go lie down soon and that I want to brush their teeth and
get them ready for bed. This is met with, "I don't want to go to bed!" I
explain that they don't have to go to bed, but that they need their teeth
brushed and to get into pajamas, and then they can play the rest of the
night if they want to. So then I usually tell them that we will brush their
teeth in the next five minutes. Five minutes later I attempt again and it
is met with a lot of struggle. Then I usually have to just be firm and make
them do it which is not fun. I am tired at this time of day and do not have
tons of patience. After that they are fine but irritated with being
interrupted in their play. As far as their pajamas go, they usually just
sleep in that day's T-shirt, which is fine. After the teeth brushing, they
are fine staying up and playing and then just go to sleep when they are
tired.
I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing I am
at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have clean
teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to understand the
importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had bad
teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.
Anybody else deal with this before? Any advice would be greatly
appreciated. I think our whole family really dreads the teeth brushing
every night and I would love to get past it.
Thank you,
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
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I have a question for everybody. First off, our household is way more
relaxed ever since I let go of controlling my kid's eating, TV watching,
bedtimes (my kids are ages 3 and 4). I am happier, my husband is happier,
and my kids are happier. However, there is still one event that takes place
every evening that seems to still send everybody into a tizzy. The simple
act of brushing my children's teeth and getting them into something
comfortable to wear to bed.
It usually goes something like this....I get tired and inform my children
that I am going to go lie down soon and that I want to brush their teeth and
get them ready for bed. This is met with, "I don't want to go to bed!" I
explain that they don't have to go to bed, but that they need their teeth
brushed and to get into pajamas, and then they can play the rest of the
night if they want to. So then I usually tell them that we will brush their
teeth in the next five minutes. Five minutes later I attempt again and it
is met with a lot of struggle. Then I usually have to just be firm and make
them do it which is not fun. I am tired at this time of day and do not have
tons of patience. After that they are fine but irritated with being
interrupted in their play. As far as their pajamas go, they usually just
sleep in that day's T-shirt, which is fine. After the teeth brushing, they
are fine staying up and playing and then just go to sleep when they are
tired.
I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing I am
at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have clean
teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to understand the
importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had bad
teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.
Anybody else deal with this before? Any advice would be greatly
appreciated. I think our whole family really dreads the teeth brushing
every night and I would love to get past it.
Thank you,
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
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Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Erika Nunn" <erikanunn@h...> wrote:
until bedtime. If it's part of the dinner routine, perhaps it won't feel like they're being
yanked away from what they are doing at the time.
Second, they are very young so they may not know why they don't want to brush their
teeth. I had a daughter who could not ever get dressed in the morning without a wrestling
match but was perfectly happy if she picked out her clothes the night before. Go figure.
I might be tempted to moving the teeth brushing time to a different of day and trust that
that one time per day was enough while they are resistant. Maybe ask them the "When do
you want me to brush your teeth - after dinner every day or after lunch?" Or set a timer
that goes off and when it buzzes, that's the time.
Good luck!
Julie
>Two ideas: Keep the brushes in the kitchen and brush right after dinner instead of waiting
> Anybody else deal with this before? Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated. I think our whole family really dreads the teeth brushing
> every night and I would love to get past it.
>
until bedtime. If it's part of the dinner routine, perhaps it won't feel like they're being
yanked away from what they are doing at the time.
Second, they are very young so they may not know why they don't want to brush their
teeth. I had a daughter who could not ever get dressed in the morning without a wrestling
match but was perfectly happy if she picked out her clothes the night before. Go figure.
I might be tempted to moving the teeth brushing time to a different of day and trust that
that one time per day was enough while they are resistant. Maybe ask them the "When do
you want me to brush your teeth - after dinner every day or after lunch?" Or set a timer
that goes off and when it buzzes, that's the time.
Good luck!
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/3/04 11:46:10 AM, erikanunn@... writes:
<< Then I usually have to just be firm and make
them do it which is not fun. >>
Before you convince yourself or try to convince us that you "have to" do
something, please read this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto
"I have to" is not a phrase that should be used in any case in which the
speaker/writer has not REALLY examined alternatives.
-=-Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. -=-
Kirby lived in sweat suits for a couple of years when he was three to five or
so, so it didn't matter what he was wearing when. In summer he went to
shorts and t-shirts, but cottony elastic-waist shorts. He changed clothes when
they were dirty or wet or he wanted to wear a costume, and other than keeping his
clean-clothes drawer stocked, I didn't sort night from day wear.
Sandra
<< Then I usually have to just be firm and make
them do it which is not fun. >>
Before you convince yourself or try to convince us that you "have to" do
something, please read this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/haveto
"I have to" is not a phrase that should be used in any case in which the
speaker/writer has not REALLY examined alternatives.
-=-Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. -=-
Kirby lived in sweat suits for a couple of years when he was three to five or
so, so it didn't matter what he was wearing when. In summer he went to
shorts and t-shirts, but cottony elastic-waist shorts. He changed clothes when
they were dirty or wet or he wanted to wear a costume, and other than keeping his
clean-clothes drawer stocked, I didn't sort night from day wear.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
Toothbrushing---Could it be that toothbrushing is associated with seperating
from you? They don't have to go to bed, but you are. What if they just did
it right after they eat before they start to play again? Would they be
willing to just wipe their teeth with a cloth rather than brush them?
Julie S.---who has been down this road with both boys
from you? They don't have to go to bed, but you are. What if they just did
it right after they eat before they start to play again? Would they be
willing to just wipe their teeth with a cloth rather than brush them?
Julie S.---who has been down this road with both boys
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erika Nunn" <erikanunn@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:42 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Bedtimes...
> Hey all,
>
> I have a question for everybody. First off, our household is way more
> relaxed ever since I let go of controlling my kid's eating, TV watching,
> bedtimes (my kids are ages 3 and 4). I am happier, my husband is happier,
> and my kids are happier. However, there is still one event that takes
place
> every evening that seems to still send everybody into a tizzy. The simple
> act of brushing my children's teeth and getting them into something
> comfortable to wear to bed.
>
> It usually goes something like this....I get tired and inform my children
> that I am going to go lie down soon and that I want to brush their teeth
and
> get them ready for bed. This is met with, "I don't want to go to bed!" I
> explain that they don't have to go to bed, but that they need their teeth
> brushed and to get into pajamas, and then they can play the rest of the
> night if they want to. So then I usually tell them that we will brush
their
> teeth in the next five minutes. Five minutes later I attempt again and it
> is met with a lot of struggle. Then I usually have to just be firm and
make
> them do it which is not fun. I am tired at this time of day and do not
have
> tons of patience. After that they are fine but irritated with being
> interrupted in their play. As far as their pajamas go, they usually just
> sleep in that day's T-shirt, which is fine. After the teeth brushing,
they
> are fine staying up and playing and then just go to sleep when they are
> tired.
>
> I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We
have
> gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
> asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to
"I
> just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to
raise
> his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
> something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing
works.
>
> So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I just
> not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I
can
> see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can
change
> into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing I
am
> at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have
clean
> teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to understand
the
> importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had bad
> teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.
>
> Anybody else deal with this before? Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated. I think our whole family really dreads the teeth brushing
> every night and I would love to get past it.
>
> Thank you,
> Erika :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Danielle Conger
Erika wrote:
I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
=========================================================
I had the same response as Julie--move the brushing time. Even if they eat something afterwards, their teeth'll still be getting brushed twice a day, and that's a good thing.
Also, I'm wondering why you have to brush them. My kids (6, 5, and 3) all brush their own teeth, always brushed them by themselves first before I had a go when they were *very* young, and they all love to brush their teeth. I think it's more important for the kids to take care of their own teeth and enjoy doing it than it is to make sure that a perfect job is done. Once in a while, I'll ask my little guy to let me have a turn--sometimes he says yes, sometimes no. They all have great teeth and no cavities--maybe good genetics. But, I think the important thing is that it's always been something fun to do instead of a battleground, you know?
I'd say relax about it, talk to them about how important it is to *you* that they brush their teeth every day and how it would best work for them to get that done.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
=========================================================
I had the same response as Julie--move the brushing time. Even if they eat something afterwards, their teeth'll still be getting brushed twice a day, and that's a good thing.
Also, I'm wondering why you have to brush them. My kids (6, 5, and 3) all brush their own teeth, always brushed them by themselves first before I had a go when they were *very* young, and they all love to brush their teeth. I think it's more important for the kids to take care of their own teeth and enjoy doing it than it is to make sure that a perfect job is done. Once in a while, I'll ask my little guy to let me have a turn--sometimes he says yes, sometimes no. They all have great teeth and no cavities--maybe good genetics. But, I think the important thing is that it's always been something fun to do instead of a battleground, you know?
I'd say relax about it, talk to them about how important it is to *you* that they brush their teeth every day and how it would best work for them to get that done.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
About a year or so ago, during a regular night of the brushing
argument, I somehow lifted the top lip of my then 2 1/2 year old (the youngest of 3).
I was shocked to see that all along her gumline her top teeth were all
corroded. She was actually the one who always brushed her teeth without any
argument. I felt awful. I always allowed her to brush her own teeth. I guess she
didn't always do such a good job. I'm not sure how long it took for that to happen
to her. I guess I just never lifted her top lip, even if I brushed for her.
My 9 yo. who brushes his teeth the least has the fewest (only one or
two) cavities. My middle one, 6yo, brushes most of the time and has a few more
than him and now the little one has horrible teeth. The dentist insists that
it is bottle rot, even though she has been exclusively nursed since birth. They
said I should stop the night nursings (I didn't though). I just try harder to
clean her teeth before bed and sometimes during the night I sneak in there
and wipe them. Anyway, she's had extensive dental work done including at least 5
root canals and 2 caps on her molars so she can chew.
I nursed my first 2 children the same way that I did her. The only
difference is that maybe my diet has not been as good with her and I have to
admit I drink too much diet coke. I do wonder if that is what may have caused the
problems. It may sound awful that a mother could drink diet coke while nursing
her child. I do so many things for my children but that is one thing that is
an addiction. If anyone has any literature about the effects of diet coke on
the body or nursing I would like to see it.
I guess my point is be careful about being too lax and even if you
don't force them to brush, keep an eye on their teeth.
good luck, Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
argument, I somehow lifted the top lip of my then 2 1/2 year old (the youngest of 3).
I was shocked to see that all along her gumline her top teeth were all
corroded. She was actually the one who always brushed her teeth without any
argument. I felt awful. I always allowed her to brush her own teeth. I guess she
didn't always do such a good job. I'm not sure how long it took for that to happen
to her. I guess I just never lifted her top lip, even if I brushed for her.
My 9 yo. who brushes his teeth the least has the fewest (only one or
two) cavities. My middle one, 6yo, brushes most of the time and has a few more
than him and now the little one has horrible teeth. The dentist insists that
it is bottle rot, even though she has been exclusively nursed since birth. They
said I should stop the night nursings (I didn't though). I just try harder to
clean her teeth before bed and sometimes during the night I sneak in there
and wipe them. Anyway, she's had extensive dental work done including at least 5
root canals and 2 caps on her molars so she can chew.
I nursed my first 2 children the same way that I did her. The only
difference is that maybe my diet has not been as good with her and I have to
admit I drink too much diet coke. I do wonder if that is what may have caused the
problems. It may sound awful that a mother could drink diet coke while nursing
her child. I do so many things for my children but that is one thing that is
an addiction. If anyone has any literature about the effects of diet coke on
the body or nursing I would like to see it.
I guess my point is be careful about being too lax and even if you
don't force them to brush, keep an eye on their teeth.
good luck, Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela
My seven year old often puts on a clean outfit for the next day the night
before and sleeps in that. She hates to get dressed and that cuts down on
the amount of times she has to change her clothes. (And on days where we
don't go anywhere, both girls stay in their pajamas all day and sleep in
them again that night unless they are completely filthy.) I have also found
that by phrasing some sentences as requests (would you be willing to brush
your teeth now so that I won't feel anxious and worried about you getting
cavities?) works well for my kids. They don't feel like I've demanded
something of them. They can choose not to and I'll drop it. They know that
I am asking out of concern for them. Most of the time they are
willing...but often they want to do it in their own time frame and feel more
in control if they choose the time. (I'll do it during the next commercial,
Mom.) Happy Mom, Happy kids. Hope that helps.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
before and sleeps in that. She hates to get dressed and that cuts down on
the amount of times she has to change her clothes. (And on days where we
don't go anywhere, both girls stay in their pajamas all day and sleep in
them again that night unless they are completely filthy.) I have also found
that by phrasing some sentences as requests (would you be willing to brush
your teeth now so that I won't feel anxious and worried about you getting
cavities?) works well for my kids. They don't feel like I've demanded
something of them. They can choose not to and I'll drop it. They know that
I am asking out of concern for them. Most of the time they are
willing...but often they want to do it in their own time frame and feel more
in control if they choose the time. (I'll do it during the next commercial,
Mom.) Happy Mom, Happy kids. Hope that helps.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it. We
have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing I am
at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have clean
teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to understand the
importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had bad
teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.>>
This tooth brushing issue has been discussed before to the point that it
really seems to be absolutely genetic � everyone has examples of folks who
almost never grab a toothbrush yet have wonderful teeth, and the polar
opposite too.
With Jayn I have totally let go. She is 4 and at the moment is refusing to
brush with �no thanks� when I invite her to do so � usually while I am
brushing. We go through stages of lots of brushing, and I have to say that
she often asks for new little brushes and new toothpastes at the market when
she sees them, but then uses the paste for painting the sink pink! She hates
all flavors that we have tried, including the new �orange� one (urk!). When
she brushes she uses water. I think she has one cavity in one tooth, but I
would rather let her have that and go to the dentist when she is more
mature, than force her, drag her to the dentist, make her afraid and angry
and generally lose any chance of her being willing to engage in good oral
care as she ages. After all she will lose these teeth, and they are not very
old since she didn�t get any teeth at all until she was one. I want her to
grow up seeing her health as in her own hands with the medical professionals
being her helpers and advisors, rather than magisterial authorities. I have
shown her pictures from the internet of bad teeth as an encouragement � it
may have backfired as she certainly sees nothing like it in her mouth. She
also drinks lots of water, especially at night, so hopefully that helps to
rinse them a bit.
As for pyjamas � Jayn sometimes changes into her princess pj�s because she
loves them, sometimes sleeps in her clothes if they are soft and comfy, and
sometimes just wears her panties. This changing into special sleepwear is a
carry over from the traditional parenting (which I call �ordinary
parenting�) idea that you MUST have a ROUTINE in order to get the children
to bed at BEDTIME � kind of Pavlov�s kids. The purpose of routine is to
remove questioning and free thought or alternative desires as much as
possible. Stop caring what they wear to sleep. Seriously. Let them see that
you are taking care of your own needs and going to bed when you need to, but
let them be. If they really want to wear pj�s themselves, let them be slip
over types and maybe the elders could help the younger if really needed.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have
gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I have
asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts" to "I
just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to raise
his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing works.
So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I just
not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That I can
see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can change
into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing I am
at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have clean
teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to understand the
importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had bad
teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.>>
This tooth brushing issue has been discussed before to the point that it
really seems to be absolutely genetic � everyone has examples of folks who
almost never grab a toothbrush yet have wonderful teeth, and the polar
opposite too.
With Jayn I have totally let go. She is 4 and at the moment is refusing to
brush with �no thanks� when I invite her to do so � usually while I am
brushing. We go through stages of lots of brushing, and I have to say that
she often asks for new little brushes and new toothpastes at the market when
she sees them, but then uses the paste for painting the sink pink! She hates
all flavors that we have tried, including the new �orange� one (urk!). When
she brushes she uses water. I think she has one cavity in one tooth, but I
would rather let her have that and go to the dentist when she is more
mature, than force her, drag her to the dentist, make her afraid and angry
and generally lose any chance of her being willing to engage in good oral
care as she ages. After all she will lose these teeth, and they are not very
old since she didn�t get any teeth at all until she was one. I want her to
grow up seeing her health as in her own hands with the medical professionals
being her helpers and advisors, rather than magisterial authorities. I have
shown her pictures from the internet of bad teeth as an encouragement � it
may have backfired as she certainly sees nothing like it in her mouth. She
also drinks lots of water, especially at night, so hopefully that helps to
rinse them a bit.
As for pyjamas � Jayn sometimes changes into her princess pj�s because she
loves them, sometimes sleeps in her clothes if they are soft and comfy, and
sometimes just wears her panties. This changing into special sleepwear is a
carry over from the traditional parenting (which I call �ordinary
parenting�) idea that you MUST have a ROUTINE in order to get the children
to bed at BEDTIME � kind of Pavlov�s kids. The purpose of routine is to
remove questioning and free thought or alternative desires as much as
possible. Stop caring what they wear to sleep. Seriously. Let them see that
you are taking care of your own needs and going to bed when you need to, but
let them be. If they really want to wear pj�s themselves, let them be slip
over types and maybe the elders could help the younger if really needed.
Robyn L. Coburn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn
I did a lot of research on the cause of cavities (from the perspective
of: Does breastfeeding/breastmilk cause cavities.) It doesn't. In
fact, it makes teeth stronger. Not to toot my own horn, but go to this
site to see my article...
http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBSepOct02p164.html
Joylyn
brenjenem@... wrote:
http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/
Here is a list of side effects... Good stuff!
Joylyn (who avoids nutradeath with a passion...only rarely in gum, it's
one of the few things I have asked my children to never eat.)
Toxicity Effects of Aspartame Use
Selection of adverse effects from short-term and/or long-Term use
Note: It often takes at least sixty days without *any* aspartame or
nutrasweet to see a significant improvement. Improvement in health is
also often accompanied by weight loss. Check all labels very carefully
(including vitamins and pharmaceuticals). Look for the word "aspartame"
on the label and avoid it. (Also, it is a good idea to avoid
"acesulfame-k" or "sunette.") Finally, avoid getting nutrition
information from junk food industry PR organizations such as IFIC or
organizations that accept large sums of money from the junk and chemical
food industry such as the American Dietetic Association.
* seizures and convulsions
* dizziness
* tremors
* migraines and severe headaches (Trigger or Cause From Chronic Intake)
* memory loss (common toxicity effects)
* slurring of speech
* confusion
* numbness or tingling of extremities
* chronic fatigue
* depression
* insomnia
* irritability
* panic attacks (common aspartame toxicity reaction)
* marked personality changes
* phobias
* rapid heart beat, tachycardia (another frequent reaction)
* asthma
* chest pains
* hypertension (high blood pressure)
* nausea or vomitting
* diarrhea
* abdominal pain
* swallowing pain
* itching
* hives / urticaria
* other allergic reactions
* blood sugar control problems (e.g., hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia)
* menstrual cramps and other menstraul problems or changes
* impotency and sexual problems
* food cravings
* weight gain
* hair loss / baldness or thinning of hair
* burning urination & other urination problems
* excessive thirst or excessive hunger
* bloating, edema (fluid retention)
* infection susceptibility
* joint pain
* brain cancer (Pre-approval studies in animals)
* death
Aspartame Disease Mimmicks Symptoms or Worsens the Following
Diseases
* fibromyalgia
* arthritis
* multiple sclerosis (MS)
* parkinson's disease
* lupus
* multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS)
* diabetes and diabetic Complications
* epilepsy
* alzheimer's disease
* birth defects
* chronic fatigue syndrome
* lymphoma
* lyme disease
* attention deficit disorder (ADD and ADHD)
* panic disorder
* depression and other psychological disorders
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of: Does breastfeeding/breastmilk cause cavities.) It doesn't. In
fact, it makes teeth stronger. Not to toot my own horn, but go to this
site to see my article...
http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBSepOct02p164.html
Joylyn
brenjenem@... wrote:
> My middle one, 6yo, brushes most of the time and has a few moreThere is a huge amount of stuff on the web regarding this... start here...
> than him and now the little one has horrible teeth. The dentist
> insists that
> it is bottle rot, even though she has been exclusively nursed since
> birth. They
> said I should stop the night nursings (I didn't though).
> If anyone has any literature about the effects of diet coke on
> the body or nursing I would like to see it.
http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/
Here is a list of side effects... Good stuff!
Joylyn (who avoids nutradeath with a passion...only rarely in gum, it's
one of the few things I have asked my children to never eat.)
Toxicity Effects of Aspartame Use
Selection of adverse effects from short-term and/or long-Term use
Note: It often takes at least sixty days without *any* aspartame or
nutrasweet to see a significant improvement. Improvement in health is
also often accompanied by weight loss. Check all labels very carefully
(including vitamins and pharmaceuticals). Look for the word "aspartame"
on the label and avoid it. (Also, it is a good idea to avoid
"acesulfame-k" or "sunette.") Finally, avoid getting nutrition
information from junk food industry PR organizations such as IFIC or
organizations that accept large sums of money from the junk and chemical
food industry such as the American Dietetic Association.
* seizures and convulsions
* dizziness
* tremors
* migraines and severe headaches (Trigger or Cause From Chronic Intake)
* memory loss (common toxicity effects)
* slurring of speech
* confusion
* numbness or tingling of extremities
* chronic fatigue
* depression
* insomnia
* irritability
* panic attacks (common aspartame toxicity reaction)
* marked personality changes
* phobias
* rapid heart beat, tachycardia (another frequent reaction)
* asthma
* chest pains
* hypertension (high blood pressure)
* nausea or vomitting
* diarrhea
* abdominal pain
* swallowing pain
* itching
* hives / urticaria
* other allergic reactions
* blood sugar control problems (e.g., hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia)
* menstrual cramps and other menstraul problems or changes
* impotency and sexual problems
* food cravings
* weight gain
* hair loss / baldness or thinning of hair
* burning urination & other urination problems
* excessive thirst or excessive hunger
* bloating, edema (fluid retention)
* infection susceptibility
* joint pain
* brain cancer (Pre-approval studies in animals)
* death
Aspartame Disease Mimmicks Symptoms or Worsens the Following
Diseases
* fibromyalgia
* arthritis
* multiple sclerosis (MS)
* parkinson's disease
* lupus
* multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS)
* diabetes and diabetic Complications
* epilepsy
* alzheimer's disease
* birth defects
* chronic fatigue syndrome
* lymphoma
* lyme disease
* attention deficit disorder (ADD and ADHD)
* panic disorder
* depression and other psychological disorders
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Regina Stevenson-Healy
On Wednesday, March 3, 2004, at 05:38 PM, brenjenem@... wrote:
hers had a disturbing bone scan. Her poor bone density was attributed
to the caffeine in the diet coke she drank a lot of daily. Your post
got me to google the subject. Here are two links with opposing views.
This was on the Soft Drink Association site and their study, not
surprisingly, found little evidence of a link between soft drink use
and tooth decay.
http://www.nsda.org/Issues/Partnerships/nutrition.html
This one found a link between caffeine use and loss of bone density.
http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gid2=1684
Regina
>Last week a friend mentioned something about how an acquaintance of
> I nursed my first 2 children the same way that I did her. The
> only
> difference is that maybe my diet has not been as good with her and I
> have to
> admit I drink too much diet coke. I do wonder if that is what may have
> caused the
> problems. It may sound awful that a mother could drink diet coke while
> nursing
> her child. I do so many things for my children but that is one thing
> that is
> an addiction. If anyone has any literature about the effects of diet
> coke on
> the body or nursing I would like to see it.
>
hers had a disturbing bone scan. Her poor bone density was attributed
to the caffeine in the diet coke she drank a lot of daily. Your post
got me to google the subject. Here are two links with opposing views.
This was on the Soft Drink Association site and their study, not
surprisingly, found little evidence of a link between soft drink use
and tooth decay.
http://www.nsda.org/Issues/Partnerships/nutrition.html
This one found a link between caffeine use and loss of bone density.
http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gid2=1684
Regina
pam sorooshian
They can brush their own teeth, Erika. If you're worried about them
doing a good job, get them the little battery operated ones - they do a
good job. AND - they don't need toothpaste - maybe that's part of what
they don't like about it. They can sit and watch tv with the electric
toothbrush in their mouth and that'll work fine. Show them how to use
it - going over each surface of each tooth.
-pam
doing a good job, get them the little battery operated ones - they do a
good job. AND - they don't need toothpaste - maybe that's part of what
they don't like about it. They can sit and watch tv with the electric
toothbrush in their mouth and that'll work fine. Show them how to use
it - going over each surface of each tooth.
-pam
On Mar 3, 2004, at 10:42 AM, Erika Nunn wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I have a question for everybody. First off, our household is way more
> relaxed ever since I let go of controlling my kid's eating, TV
> watching,
> bedtimes (my kids are ages 3 and 4). I am happier, my husband is
> happier,
> and my kids are happier. However, there is still one event that takes
> place
> every evening that seems to still send everybody into a tizzy. The
> simple
> act of brushing my children's teeth and getting them into something
> comfortable to wear to bed.
>
> It usually goes something like this....I get tired and inform my
> children
> that I am going to go lie down soon and that I want to brush their
> teeth and
> get them ready for bed. This is met with, "I don't want to go to
> bed!" I
> explain that they don't have to go to bed, but that they need their
> teeth
> brushed and to get into pajamas, and then they can play the rest of the
> night if they want to. So then I usually tell them that we will brush
> their
> teeth in the next five minutes. Five minutes later I attempt again
> and it
> is met with a lot of struggle. Then I usually have to just be firm
> and make
> them do it which is not fun. I am tired at this time of day and do
> not have
> tons of patience. After that they are fine but irritated with being
> interrupted in their play. As far as their pajamas go, they usually
> just
> sleep in that day's T-shirt, which is fine. After the teeth brushing,
> they
> are fine staying up and playing and then just go to sleep when they are
> tired.
>
> I have explained the importance of brushing teeth and why we do it.
> We have
> gone out and picked out fun brushes and special cups for rinsing. I
> have
> asked why they don't like it and I get mixed responses from "it hurts"
> to "I
> just don't want to." I make sure I am very gentle and my son knows to
> raise
> his hand in the air if he wants me to stop brushing. I try to think of
> something fun we can do afterwards like read a book in bed. Nothing
> works.
>
> So I am assuming that I am just not getting something here. Should I
> just
> not even suggest that they change into clothes for sleeping in? That
> I can
> see would make sense. Maybe I should get them pajamas that they can
> change
> into by themselves so they have that choice. But with the teeth thing
> I am
> at a loss. I feel like it is my parental duty to make sure they have
> clean
> teeth before they go to sleep, and that they are too young to
> understand the
> importance of this. What if I just gave up and later in life they had
> bad
> teeth - I don't think they would appreciate that.
>
> Anybody else deal with this before? Any advice would be greatly
> appreciated. I think our whole family really dreads the teeth brushing
> every night and I would love to get past it.
>
> Thank you,
> Erika :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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National Home Education Network
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Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
Oh yeah - our pediatric dentist told me that the important thing was
getting teeth brushed at least once every 24 hours and not to do it at
bedtime if it was a bad time (I'm like you, really tired and NOT filled
with calm and patience at night). He said that it was nice to brush
teeth after every meal and at bedtime, but that realistically what
really mattered was just getting them done sometime each day.
-pam
getting teeth brushed at least once every 24 hours and not to do it at
bedtime if it was a bad time (I'm like you, really tired and NOT filled
with calm and patience at night). He said that it was nice to brush
teeth after every meal and at bedtime, but that realistically what
really mattered was just getting them done sometime each day.
-pam
On Mar 3, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Julie Bogart wrote:
> Two ideas: Keep the brushes in the kitchen and brush right after
> dinner instead of waiting
> until bedtime. If it's part of the dinner routine, perhaps it won't
> feel like they're being
> yanked away from what they are doing at the time.
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
pam sorooshian
On Mar 3, 2004, at 2:38 PM, brenjenem@... wrote:
didn't clean their teeth before that except occasionally. I know they
aren't brushing after meals - just usually at night and in the morning.
Three kids - one little tiny cavity between them all - just a spot on
the surface that was zapped off, but no filling.
My husband never saw a dentist until he was 26 years old. He had ONE
problem in one tooth at that time. I think my kids got lucky - good
teeth genes.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> My 9 yo. who brushes his teeth the least has the fewest (onlySounds genetic. My kids brushed their own teeth since they could and I
> one or
> two) cavities. My middle one, 6yo, brushes most of the time and has a
> few more
> than him and now the little one has horrible teeth. The dentist
> insists that
> it is bottle rot, even though she has been exclusively nursed since
> birth. They
> said I should stop the night nursings (I didn't though). I just try
> harder to
> clean her teeth before bed and sometimes during the night I sneak in
> there
> and wipe them. Anyway, she's had extensive dental work done including
> at least 5
> root canals and 2 caps on her molars so she can chew.
didn't clean their teeth before that except occasionally. I know they
aren't brushing after meals - just usually at night and in the morning.
Three kids - one little tiny cavity between them all - just a spot on
the surface that was zapped off, but no filling.
My husband never saw a dentist until he was 26 years old. He had ONE
problem in one tooth at that time. I think my kids got lucky - good
teeth genes.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/3/2004 8:08:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
joylyn@... writes:
kids had a dental exam just before we moved to VA. All fine, no cavities etc
etc, one might need braces as his teeth were crowded.
We then saw a dentist 6 months later in VA. He said Heather was clear, Bryn
had a grey area that *might* become a cavity but lets wait and see and Rhodri
was fine apart from having 5 teeth knocked out with a golf club.
8 months later we saw a paediatric dentist as the first had stopped seeing
children. Very swish offices....
According to him, Heather had 9 cavities, Bryn none and Rhodri 5. They all
needed pre-brace braces. He strated talking payment plans etc etc. I told him
I'd think about it as we were moving home shortly.
Back home we went to see a dentist and gosh, no cavities anywhere. I told him
about the VA dentist and he was shocked. He said the kids teeth were fine and
that it is extremely rare that a child under about 12 needs something as
drastic as root canal. Root canals trap bacteria inside the tooth and lead the
problems later. They are nasty things and to be avoided unless you have an abcess
under that tooth that can't be drained any other way.
Basically, I think when a dentist who is paid by how many procedures he does
like in the US, suggests something then get a second and third opinion before
submitting your child to a lifetime of fillings. I don't know any child here
who has root canals. Plently have normal fillings. But in VA they seemed more
common than braces (which are of course, compulsory in the US..;-) )
If I'd believed that man my kids would have a mouthful of mercury now.
Shyrley who gets all Grrrr at dentists
if everyone owned a car, what a smelly, dangerous, noisy, stressful,
unhealthy, expensive society this would be... oh, wait... it is!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn@... writes:
> did a lot of research on the cause of cavities (from the perspectiveI'm beginning to wonder about all these cavities, especially in the US. My
> of: Does breastfeeding/breastmilk cause cavities.) It doesn't. In
> fact, it makes teeth stronger. Not to toot my own horn, but go to this
> site to see my article...
>
> http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBSepOct02p164.html
>
> Joylyn
>
>
kids had a dental exam just before we moved to VA. All fine, no cavities etc
etc, one might need braces as his teeth were crowded.
We then saw a dentist 6 months later in VA. He said Heather was clear, Bryn
had a grey area that *might* become a cavity but lets wait and see and Rhodri
was fine apart from having 5 teeth knocked out with a golf club.
8 months later we saw a paediatric dentist as the first had stopped seeing
children. Very swish offices....
According to him, Heather had 9 cavities, Bryn none and Rhodri 5. They all
needed pre-brace braces. He strated talking payment plans etc etc. I told him
I'd think about it as we were moving home shortly.
Back home we went to see a dentist and gosh, no cavities anywhere. I told him
about the VA dentist and he was shocked. He said the kids teeth were fine and
that it is extremely rare that a child under about 12 needs something as
drastic as root canal. Root canals trap bacteria inside the tooth and lead the
problems later. They are nasty things and to be avoided unless you have an abcess
under that tooth that can't be drained any other way.
Basically, I think when a dentist who is paid by how many procedures he does
like in the US, suggests something then get a second and third opinion before
submitting your child to a lifetime of fillings. I don't know any child here
who has root canals. Plently have normal fillings. But in VA they seemed more
common than braces (which are of course, compulsory in the US..;-) )
If I'd believed that man my kids would have a mouthful of mercury now.
Shyrley who gets all Grrrr at dentists
if everyone owned a car, what a smelly, dangerous, noisy, stressful,
unhealthy, expensive society this would be... oh, wait... it is!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa H
Brushing teeth has become a bit of a game for us here. For the past year my five year old is obsessed with counting so we count to ten together while both brushing our own teeth in one spot at a time. She now asks me to brush the spots where she can't reach. I've never forced my kids to brush their teeth as i don't force them to brush their hair or take a bath or shower. I was told by a dental hygienist that as long as the plaque is disturbed (brushed) once in a 24hour period that's enough.
As for pjs. Well clothes choices are just that - choices...my kids sleep in anything from pjs to the clothes they've worn that day to nothing at all.
Lisa Heyman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As for pjs. Well clothes choices are just that - choices...my kids sleep in anything from pjs to the clothes they've worn that day to nothing at all.
Lisa Heyman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], sblingle@a... wrote:
We moved from a dentist we trusted to another state without any clue who to go to. We
took a recommendation from a friend.
Acouple of the kids had had one or two cavities but nothing much. Suddenly three out of
five had cavities and one of them supposedly had five cavities!!!
I found another dentist who says things like, "Well, I see one developping there but it's a
baby tooth and if he's not complaining, let's just leave it until it falls out." The interesting
thing is that since we switched dentists, only one of my kids has had one cavity (in two
years).
First dentist: very fancy office.
Second dentist: ugly little out of the way thing.
Had the very same thing happen with braces too and did research into the "phase" style
braces treatments. Paid over $7000 for the first child. Have come to the conclusion it's a
money making racket. We use the old fashioned style braces for half of the price now.
A good friend who gave up his private dentistry practice to do dentistry with the elderly
(this is a good man) told us that waiting until your permanent teeth come in is perfectly
acceptable for braces treatment and that there will be less likelihood of teeth shifting after
treatment... which is why adults who wear braces wear them for less time and it costs far
less money (which we discovered when my dh wore tham at age 32).
Julie
> Basically, I think when a dentist who is paid by how many procedures he doesShyrley, this happened to us.
> like in the US, suggests something then get a second and third opinion before
> submitting your child to a lifetime of fillings. I don't know any child here
> who has root canals. Plently have normal fillings. But in VA they seemed more
> common than braces (which are of course, compulsory in the US..;-) )
>
> If I'd believed that man my kids would have a mouthful of mercury now.
We moved from a dentist we trusted to another state without any clue who to go to. We
took a recommendation from a friend.
Acouple of the kids had had one or two cavities but nothing much. Suddenly three out of
five had cavities and one of them supposedly had five cavities!!!
I found another dentist who says things like, "Well, I see one developping there but it's a
baby tooth and if he's not complaining, let's just leave it until it falls out." The interesting
thing is that since we switched dentists, only one of my kids has had one cavity (in two
years).
First dentist: very fancy office.
Second dentist: ugly little out of the way thing.
Had the very same thing happen with braces too and did research into the "phase" style
braces treatments. Paid over $7000 for the first child. Have come to the conclusion it's a
money making racket. We use the old fashioned style braces for half of the price now.
A good friend who gave up his private dentistry practice to do dentistry with the elderly
(this is a good man) told us that waiting until your permanent teeth come in is perfectly
acceptable for braces treatment and that there will be less likelihood of teeth shifting after
treatment... which is why adults who wear braces wear them for less time and it costs far
less money (which we discovered when my dh wore tham at age 32).
Julie
Kathleen Gehrke
--- In [email protected], pam sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
in such horrible shape. THe dentist tried telling me it was because
of her diet. I felt horrible. Her diet is really pretty okay, I
thought.. Then I talked to her bio grandma.. It is genetic. The
family has horrible teeth. Grandma said her mother had all gold
teeth for her entire life. Grandma also said she does not have a
tooth that has not been rebuilt. I had a foster daughter that had
not been to a dentist in nine years. She did not have one cavity.
She rarely brushed. I think far more things of that nature are
genetic.
Kathleen
<pamsoroosh@m...> wrote:
>(only
> On Mar 3, 2004, at 2:38 PM, brenjenem@a... wrote:
>
> > My 9 yo. who brushes his teeth the least has the fewest
> > one orhas a
> > two) cavities. My middle one, 6yo, brushes most of the time and
> > few moresince
> > than him and now the little one has horrible teeth. The dentist
> > insists that
> > it is bottle rot, even though she has been exclusively nursed
> > birth. Theytry
> > said I should stop the night nursings (I didn't though). I just
> > harder tosneak in
> > clean her teeth before bed and sometimes during the night I
> > thereincluding
> > and wipe them. Anyway, she's had extensive dental work done
> > at least 5My four year old just had to undergo surgery because her teeth were
> > root canals and 2 caps on her molars so she can chew.
>
in such horrible shape. THe dentist tried telling me it was because
of her diet. I felt horrible. Her diet is really pretty okay, I
thought.. Then I talked to her bio grandma.. It is genetic. The
family has horrible teeth. Grandma said her mother had all gold
teeth for her entire life. Grandma also said she does not have a
tooth that has not been rebuilt. I had a foster daughter that had
not been to a dentist in nine years. She did not have one cavity.
She rarely brushed. I think far more things of that nature are
genetic.
Kathleen
catherine aceto
We recently switched dentists, cause the first one was obnoxious (although highly recommended by everyone I asked). Dentist 1 had said that Lydia had 2 cavities, we got one filled by him and then switched dentists because I was so unhappy with his behavior during the filling. The Dentist 2 said that Dentist 1 had taken the xrays wrong and that Lydia did *not* have a second cavity. Made me wonder about being paid by the procedure also.
Lydia didn't brush with toothpaste until she was over 6, and now uses a toothpaste that is "low foaming" which she likes. The toothpaste cap also plays music for the lenght of time you are supposed to brush - which is corny but she really likes it.
We never forced brushing (although we did a lot of playing, like counting teeth and singing songs, etc., when she was younger). About 3 days a week, brushing just didn't happen. She has had only the one cavity (which I am now suspicious of whether she had it or not). I agree with the people who think cavities are largely controlled by genes.
Oddly enough, Jonathan (16 months) LOVES to brush his teeth. He brushes his teeth (pretty well, too, I might add - of course, he only has 10) every time we go into the bathroom. I guess it is just somehting that he sees adults and his older sister doing.
Back to the rest of the original issue, also - the kids and I all wear loose cotton clothes all day and usually sleep in them. Lydia does have some princess nightgowns which she sometimes chooses to wear -- but mostly she sleeps in clothes.
-Cat
Basically, I think when a dentist who is paid by how many procedures he does
like in the US, suggests something then get a second and third opinion before submitting your child to a lifetime of fillings.
Shyrley who gets all Grrrr at dentists
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lydia didn't brush with toothpaste until she was over 6, and now uses a toothpaste that is "low foaming" which she likes. The toothpaste cap also plays music for the lenght of time you are supposed to brush - which is corny but she really likes it.
We never forced brushing (although we did a lot of playing, like counting teeth and singing songs, etc., when she was younger). About 3 days a week, brushing just didn't happen. She has had only the one cavity (which I am now suspicious of whether she had it or not). I agree with the people who think cavities are largely controlled by genes.
Oddly enough, Jonathan (16 months) LOVES to brush his teeth. He brushes his teeth (pretty well, too, I might add - of course, he only has 10) every time we go into the bathroom. I guess it is just somehting that he sees adults and his older sister doing.
Back to the rest of the original issue, also - the kids and I all wear loose cotton clothes all day and usually sleep in them. Lydia does have some princess nightgowns which she sometimes chooses to wear -- but mostly she sleeps in clothes.
-Cat
Basically, I think when a dentist who is paid by how many procedures he does
like in the US, suggests something then get a second and third opinion before submitting your child to a lifetime of fillings.
Shyrley who gets all Grrrr at dentists
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Erika Nunn
Everybody - thank you for your advice regarding the teeth. Now that I know
my kids aren't in grave danger of their teeth rotting if I don't religiously
brush them before bedtime, I can relax more. The motorized toothbrush idea
is great too....as well as me brushing with them.
And as far as pajamas go....why was I so worried about that to begin with?
I would feel guilty if I thought my kids were not comfortable at night....
Amazing how I believe there are certain things that I feel that I "have" to
do. Now I am moving on and breathing a sigh of relief....
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
my kids aren't in grave danger of their teeth rotting if I don't religiously
brush them before bedtime, I can relax more. The motorized toothbrush idea
is great too....as well as me brushing with them.
And as far as pajamas go....why was I so worried about that to begin with?
I would feel guilty if I thought my kids were not comfortable at night....
Amazing how I believe there are certain things that I feel that I "have" to
do. Now I am moving on and breathing a sigh of relief....
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Kathleen Gehrke
My kids love their spin brushes.. Sometimes brushing far more than
needed. Also in the evenning I usually put my comfy clothes on. THe
kids do too. They get sweats or jammies and then we play or whatever
in our 'nightclothes'. My four year old put her nightclothes on
today.. Cause she likes them..
Kathleen--- In [email protected], "Erika Nunn"
<erikanunn@h...> wrote:
needed. Also in the evenning I usually put my comfy clothes on. THe
kids do too. They get sweats or jammies and then we play or whatever
in our 'nightclothes'. My four year old put her nightclothes on
today.. Cause she likes them..
Kathleen--- In [email protected], "Erika Nunn"
<erikanunn@h...> wrote:
> Everybody - thank you for your advice regarding the teeth. Nowthat I know
> my kids aren't in grave danger of their teeth rotting if I don'treligiously
> brush them before bedtime, I can relax more. The motorizedtoothbrush idea
> is great too....as well as me brushing with them.begin with?
>
> And as far as pajamas go....why was I so worried about that to
> I would feel guilty if I thought my kids were not comfortable atnight....
>I "have" to
> Amazing how I believe there are certain things that I feel that
> do. Now I am moving on and breathing a sigh of relief....
>
> Erika :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Marge Adams
Since I have not posted on this list before, I feel a little
background is in order before I broach my question. I will try to be
brief...
I have 6 children ages 19 months, 4,8,11, 13(in Jan) and 14 years. I
left their father in March 2004 and am now divorced. (He has many
issues and has subsequently been labelled "Narcissistic Personality
Disorder." His visitation w/the kids has been suspended since May
2005 by CPS because of some bizarre behavior on his part--loonng
story.) My oldest three spent some time in ps (2,3, qnd 4 years
respectively) Jossilyn (now 8) had not gone to ps at all until last
fall. She begged to go and I allowed others to convince me it would
be "easier" to send the kids back to ps--boy were they ever wrong!! A
few weeks into the year they were all back at home. We have always
been more unschoolers towards "school stuff" but their father is a
major control freak so had strict rules for just about everything.
In May Jossilyn was diagnosed with AML (acute myeloid leukemia.)
She and I spent most of the summer in the hospital 90 miles from home
and in August we went to Boston (210 miles away) for a bone marrow
transplant. We came home in Oct. (Her father was allowed visits in
hospital w/Jossilyn--the others still haven't seen him since May.)
The kids stayed with my parents--not great but...--and with good
friends--better but limited time possible.
Now that we are home, everyone wants to be with Mom. Which brings me
to the bedtime question. Pre-cancer, the little ones went to bed
earlier--between 8-9pm. The baby was nursing and Kaylin would go to
bed with us and fall asleep. The others would wander off to bed at
various times, usually leaving Jacob and I and sometimes Kelsey to
stay up later. Jacob(almost 13) has ALWAYS been a nightowl and would
often read in bed until 2am even when he was 8. Those late nights
kind of became "our" time to chat or whatever. Kelsey (14)joining us
was never a problem because he has always been close to her.
Over the summer things changed, of course. Kaylin had no bedtime, and
would just fall asleep where-ever and when-ever. My mother "made" the
older kids go to bed by 11, which they did not fuss about. In the
hospital, Jossilyn developed a new schedule, often staying up until
2am watching TV. She had always been a very active, healthy child and
the inactivity and confinement were tough. Still, not a problem.
Now that we are home NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO BED! Even if they are so
tired they just can't stand themselves. Still, I understand that they
missed me and the little ones have separation anxiety, etc. I could
deal with it. But the older ones really miss "our" time together
without the littles. I've tried putting them to bed, but the instant
I get back up, Kaylin wakes up screaming. Or she bugs Josie so she
won't go to sleep. To top it all off, when the others do go to bed
Jacob has taken to harassing the others until the entire house is in
an uproar and we are lucky to settle down by 3am. Josie is usually up
by 7am, like clockwork so I get up with her. Naps are scarce. I'm
exhausted. What to do?
I wanted to keep this brief, and I don't even know if I was very
clear. I forgot to mention that my mother was putting Josie to bed
with a bottle of milk, or attempts at breaking the habit is also
adding to bedtime difficulties. I don't think bedtimes would really
be helpful, but I really need some sleep.
Marge
background is in order before I broach my question. I will try to be
brief...
I have 6 children ages 19 months, 4,8,11, 13(in Jan) and 14 years. I
left their father in March 2004 and am now divorced. (He has many
issues and has subsequently been labelled "Narcissistic Personality
Disorder." His visitation w/the kids has been suspended since May
2005 by CPS because of some bizarre behavior on his part--loonng
story.) My oldest three spent some time in ps (2,3, qnd 4 years
respectively) Jossilyn (now 8) had not gone to ps at all until last
fall. She begged to go and I allowed others to convince me it would
be "easier" to send the kids back to ps--boy were they ever wrong!! A
few weeks into the year they were all back at home. We have always
been more unschoolers towards "school stuff" but their father is a
major control freak so had strict rules for just about everything.
In May Jossilyn was diagnosed with AML (acute myeloid leukemia.)
She and I spent most of the summer in the hospital 90 miles from home
and in August we went to Boston (210 miles away) for a bone marrow
transplant. We came home in Oct. (Her father was allowed visits in
hospital w/Jossilyn--the others still haven't seen him since May.)
The kids stayed with my parents--not great but...--and with good
friends--better but limited time possible.
Now that we are home, everyone wants to be with Mom. Which brings me
to the bedtime question. Pre-cancer, the little ones went to bed
earlier--between 8-9pm. The baby was nursing and Kaylin would go to
bed with us and fall asleep. The others would wander off to bed at
various times, usually leaving Jacob and I and sometimes Kelsey to
stay up later. Jacob(almost 13) has ALWAYS been a nightowl and would
often read in bed until 2am even when he was 8. Those late nights
kind of became "our" time to chat or whatever. Kelsey (14)joining us
was never a problem because he has always been close to her.
Over the summer things changed, of course. Kaylin had no bedtime, and
would just fall asleep where-ever and when-ever. My mother "made" the
older kids go to bed by 11, which they did not fuss about. In the
hospital, Jossilyn developed a new schedule, often staying up until
2am watching TV. She had always been a very active, healthy child and
the inactivity and confinement were tough. Still, not a problem.
Now that we are home NO ONE WANTS TO GO TO BED! Even if they are so
tired they just can't stand themselves. Still, I understand that they
missed me and the little ones have separation anxiety, etc. I could
deal with it. But the older ones really miss "our" time together
without the littles. I've tried putting them to bed, but the instant
I get back up, Kaylin wakes up screaming. Or she bugs Josie so she
won't go to sleep. To top it all off, when the others do go to bed
Jacob has taken to harassing the others until the entire house is in
an uproar and we are lucky to settle down by 3am. Josie is usually up
by 7am, like clockwork so I get up with her. Naps are scarce. I'm
exhausted. What to do?
I wanted to keep this brief, and I don't even know if I was very
clear. I forgot to mention that my mother was putting Josie to bed
with a bottle of milk, or attempts at breaking the habit is also
adding to bedtime difficulties. I don't think bedtimes would really
be helpful, but I really need some sleep.
Marge
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
From: Marge Adams jorie6568@...
I'm exhausted. What to do?
I wanted to keep this brief, and I don't even know if I was very
clear. I forgot to mention that my mother was putting Josie to bed
with a bottle of milk, or attempts at breaking the habit is also
adding to bedtime difficulties. I don't think bedtimes would really
be helpful, but I really need some sleep.
-=-=--
I'd really consider hiring help!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Marge Adams jorie6568@...
I'm exhausted. What to do?
I wanted to keep this brief, and I don't even know if I was very
clear. I forgot to mention that my mother was putting Josie to bed
with a bottle of milk, or attempts at breaking the habit is also
adding to bedtime difficulties. I don't think bedtimes would really
be helpful, but I really need some sleep.
-=-=--
I'd really consider hiring help!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley
> I don't think bedtimes would reallySleep doesn't have to exist only at night. I'd discuss the situation
> be helpful, but I really need some sleep.
with your kids. They might have some great ideas about how to get _you_
completely rested so that you can be the best mother that you can be.
Since you have older children, could they watch the younger ones while
you napped? Can you sleep only when the youngest sleeps? Can you hire
a mother's helper for a couple of hours in the early morning so that you
could sleep or spend time with a subset of your children? Sleep
deprivation is a difficult situation!
-Lisa in AZ
Marge Adams
--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:
it, Jossilyn's post-transplant restrictions are very conservative. No
one is allowed in the house and she can't go inside anywhere except
our house, clinic, or hospital.
Marge
> I'd really consider hiring help!I don't really have that option. On top of not being able to afford
>
> ~Kelly
it, Jossilyn's post-transplant restrictions are very conservative. No
one is allowed in the house and she can't go inside anywhere except
our house, clinic, or hospital.
Marge
Marge Adams
--- In [email protected], "Lisa M. Cottrell
Bentley" <cottrellbentley@c...> wrote:
restictions. And I HAVE talked with them, and they are really
helpful. Unfortunately, Kaylin(4) just wants me ALL the time--no
one can get anything for her, do anything for her, etc. except me.
(She hasn't always been like this, it's just since the cancer
diagnosis and treatment when I was gone so much. I do hope and
expect that to get better over time.)
It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house. There are all kinds of dynamics going on, with a variety of
contributing factors. One aspect is that he really misses that time
we used to share after everyone went to bed. I've tried talking to
him about why this is going on and what would be helpful.
I've tried arranging one on one time, which can be a challenge. But
it seems like its not enough... Do I sound like I am blaming him? I
hope not, but when it is 3AM and I am woken up by kids screaming at
each other over purposely annoying behavior, I am NOT a happy
person.
Most days I just think of how much better our lives have been since
we don't live with their father anymore, even considering Jossilyn's
diagnosis. I expect this will sort out and become one of those "Do
you remember when..." things.
Marge
Bentley" <cottrellbentley@c...> wrote:
> Sleep doesn't have to exist only at night. I'd discuss thesituation
> with your kids. They might have some great ideas about how to get_you_
> completely rested so that you can be the best mother that you canbe.
> Since you have older children, could they watch the younger oneswhile
> you napped? Can you sleep only when the youngest sleeps? Can youhire
> a mother's helper for a couple of hours in the early morning sothat you
> could sleep or spend time with a subset of your children? SleepWell, the hiring is out due to Jossilyn's post-transplant
> deprivation is a difficult situation!
>
> -Lisa in AZ
>
restictions. And I HAVE talked with them, and they are really
helpful. Unfortunately, Kaylin(4) just wants me ALL the time--no
one can get anything for her, do anything for her, etc. except me.
(She hasn't always been like this, it's just since the cancer
diagnosis and treatment when I was gone so much. I do hope and
expect that to get better over time.)
It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house. There are all kinds of dynamics going on, with a variety of
contributing factors. One aspect is that he really misses that time
we used to share after everyone went to bed. I've tried talking to
him about why this is going on and what would be helpful.
I've tried arranging one on one time, which can be a challenge. But
it seems like its not enough... Do I sound like I am blaming him? I
hope not, but when it is 3AM and I am woken up by kids screaming at
each other over purposely annoying behavior, I am NOT a happy
person.
Most days I just think of how much better our lives have been since
we don't live with their father anymore, even considering Jossilyn's
diagnosis. I expect this will sort out and become one of those "Do
you remember when..." things.
Marge
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/27/05 7:09:33 PM, jorie6568@... writes:
house so that she can recover and YOU can recover. But why can't all people
be in the same room (those who want to?) And why can't that baby have a
bottle to go to sleep? If you're worried about sugar, maybe water?
Anything you do that creates less comfort is flatly less comforting.
And there's no excuse for kids screaming in the middle of the night in the
absence of blood. If they're not old enough to be quiet if they're awake, then
they're too young to make the decision to stay up.
There are reasons for quiet. Quiet doesn't have to be "get in bed with the
lights out and go to sleep or get a spanking." There's a wide world of
option between that and screaming at 3:00 a.m. They are absolutely and not even
NEAR the only two choices.
-=- Do I sound like I am blaming him? I
hope not,-=-
You've got to be kidding.
You wrote this:
-=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house. -=-
It's not "really" his decision; he's needy.
-=- I've tried talking to him about why this is going on and what would be
helpful.-=-
He probably doesn't know what would be helpful. You're grown and you're not
figuring it out, so don't expect him to know.
-=-Most days I just think of how much better our lives have been since
we don't live with their father anymore, even considering Jossilyn's
diagnosis. -=-
Do the kids feel the same way?
Does Jacob feel his life is better?
(You don't need to answer that on the list, but you should consider it inside
yourself.)
Be careful of using "we" and "our" if you can't really speak for everyone in
the group.
Maybe you're right and "our" was the thing to use, but it sounds pretty close
to unmanageable, and maybe therapy for the dad and the marriage would have
been better than a divorce. Maybe not, but you've made choices that affect
other people, and you might need to make that up to them, and be sensitive to
that.
-=-Do I sound like I am blaming him? I hope not-=-
-=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house.-=-
When you post to this list, please be as kind toward your children as you can
be, and please be as carefully honest as you can be. If you hoped it didn't
sound like you were blaming him, you could have edited the paragraph. The
simple act of editing your paragraph to make it consistent would have been
therapeutic and revealing for you.
-=-when it is 3AM and I am woken up by kids screaming at
each other over purposely annoying behavior, I am NOT a happy
person.-=-
It doesn't sound like they're happy people either, but at 3:00 your house
should REALLY be quiet. There are probably laws being violated if anyone is
your house is screaming at 3:00 a.m. unless you live way out in the country with
no neighbors. You could quite honestly tell your children that police or
social services people could step in if they can't be quiet from 10:00 at night
to morning on "school nights," because that's the plain and honest truth. But
don't shame them about it, because you decided not to have a bedtime without
having corresponding deals in place to make it safe and peaceful at night.
EVERYone in your family needs quiet and peace, but you're the oldest and wisest
and it's your responsibility.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> On top of not being able to affordThat being the case, perhaps you need special restrictions for a while in the
> it, Jossilyn's post-transplant restrictions are very conservative. No
> one is allowed in the house and she can't go inside anywhere except
> our house, clinic, or hospital.
>
house so that she can recover and YOU can recover. But why can't all people
be in the same room (those who want to?) And why can't that baby have a
bottle to go to sleep? If you're worried about sugar, maybe water?
Anything you do that creates less comfort is flatly less comforting.
And there's no excuse for kids screaming in the middle of the night in the
absence of blood. If they're not old enough to be quiet if they're awake, then
they're too young to make the decision to stay up.
There are reasons for quiet. Quiet doesn't have to be "get in bed with the
lights out and go to sleep or get a spanking." There's a wide world of
option between that and screaming at 3:00 a.m. They are absolutely and not even
NEAR the only two choices.
-=- Do I sound like I am blaming him? I
hope not,-=-
You've got to be kidding.
You wrote this:
-=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house. -=-
It's not "really" his decision; he's needy.
-=- I've tried talking to him about why this is going on and what would be
helpful.-=-
He probably doesn't know what would be helpful. You're grown and you're not
figuring it out, so don't expect him to know.
-=-Most days I just think of how much better our lives have been since
we don't live with their father anymore, even considering Jossilyn's
diagnosis. -=-
Do the kids feel the same way?
Does Jacob feel his life is better?
(You don't need to answer that on the list, but you should consider it inside
yourself.)
Be careful of using "we" and "our" if you can't really speak for everyone in
the group.
Maybe you're right and "our" was the thing to use, but it sounds pretty close
to unmanageable, and maybe therapy for the dad and the marriage would have
been better than a divorce. Maybe not, but you've made choices that affect
other people, and you might need to make that up to them, and be sensitive to
that.
-=-Do I sound like I am blaming him? I hope not-=-
-=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in the
house.-=-
When you post to this list, please be as kind toward your children as you can
be, and please be as carefully honest as you can be. If you hoped it didn't
sound like you were blaming him, you could have edited the paragraph. The
simple act of editing your paragraph to make it consistent would have been
therapeutic and revealing for you.
-=-when it is 3AM and I am woken up by kids screaming at
each other over purposely annoying behavior, I am NOT a happy
person.-=-
It doesn't sound like they're happy people either, but at 3:00 your house
should REALLY be quiet. There are probably laws being violated if anyone is
your house is screaming at 3:00 a.m. unless you live way out in the country with
no neighbors. You could quite honestly tell your children that police or
social services people could step in if they can't be quiet from 10:00 at night
to morning on "school nights," because that's the plain and honest truth. But
don't shame them about it, because you decided not to have a bedtime without
having corresponding deals in place to make it safe and peaceful at night.
EVERYone in your family needs quiet and peace, but you're the oldest and wisest
and it's your responsibility.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathleen Whitfield
Can everyone just bunker down in one big family bed? I've had two big beds
in the living room during particularly tough times in our family. It does
sound like a time to bring everyone closer, if they're willing and if that's
OK for your daughter's recovery. It could be one big slumber party for a
while. Acknowledging the stress everyone is going through might make them
feel somewhat better. Missing both parents for a while had to have been very
difficult.
I also wanted to say that my just-shy-of-4-year-old also frequently insists
that *I* do everything for her -- and I'm only rarely gone from her, never
for more than an hour or two.
Kathleen
in the living room during particularly tough times in our family. It does
sound like a time to bring everyone closer, if they're willing and if that's
OK for your daughter's recovery. It could be one big slumber party for a
while. Acknowledging the stress everyone is going through might make them
feel somewhat better. Missing both parents for a while had to have been very
difficult.
I also wanted to say that my just-shy-of-4-year-old also frequently insists
that *I* do everything for her -- and I'm only rarely gone from her, never
for more than an hour or two.
Kathleen
Marge Adams
Sandra,
Thank you for posting 'cause I find your perspective and style
effective. There were several things I wanted to respond to, so I'm
going to do a blow by blow in the body of your post...
Marge
Thank you for posting 'cause I find your perspective and style
effective. There were several things I wanted to respond to, so I'm
going to do a blow by blow in the body of your post...
Marge
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 11/27/05 7:09:33 PM, jorie6568@y... writes:
>
>
> > On top of not being able to afford
> > it, Jossilyn's post-transplant restrictions are very
conservative. No
> > one is allowed in the house and she can't go inside anywhere
except
> > our house, clinic, or hospital.
> >
>
> That being the case, perhaps you need special restrictions for a
while in the
> house so that she can recover and YOU can recover. But why can't
all people
> be in the same room (those who want to?) And why can't that baby
have a
> bottle to go to sleep? If you're worried about sugar, maybe
water?
Aahh, but you should see what it is doing to her little baby
teeth... (One of my sisters is a dental hygienist.) But Josie still
gets her bottle, usually with water unless she really wants milk.
But last night all bottles disappeared in the shuffle and we had a
very angry little girl...
>
> Anything you do that creates less comfort is flatly less
comforting.
>
> And there's no excuse for kids screaming in the middle of the
night in the
> absence of blood. If they're not old enough to be quiet if
they're awake, then
> they're too young to make the decision to stay up.
>
> There are reasons for quiet. Quiet doesn't have to be "get in
bed with the
> lights out and go to sleep or get a spanking." There's a wide
world of
> option between that and screaming at 3:00 a.m. They are
absolutely and not even
> NEAR the only two choices.
Hmmm, did I insinuate otherwise? As I said (I think) Jacob has
always stayed up late, quietly reading or on his computer or
whatever. If the others are up, it is usually fine--TV, books,
maybe a low key game. When the older ones are tired, they go to
bed. The yelling at each other has occurred three times in the past
week, so I need to contemplate what is going on to create this new
behavior. Perhaps is has been from recent discussions to reinstate
visits with dad? (Just rhetorical musing on my part...)
>
> -=- Do I sound like I am blaming him? I
> hope not,-=-
>
> You've got to be kidding.
Yeah, I know, I know...
> You wrote this:
>
> -=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in
the
> house. -=-
>
> It's not "really" his decision; he's needy.
Yeah, I know.
>
> -=- I've tried talking to him about why this is going on and what
would be
> helpful.-=-
>
> He probably doesn't know what would be helpful. You're grown and
you're not
> figuring it out, so don't expect him to know.
Well, I have some ideas. We just can't change all the contributing
factors. But he can't take his frustrations out on the other
children either. We are working on it.
>
> -=-Most days I just think of how much better our lives have been
since
> we don't live with their father anymore, even considering
Jossilyn's
> diagnosis. -=-
>
> Do the kids feel the same way?
> Does Jacob feel his life is better?
> (You don't need to answer that on the list, but you should
consider it inside
> yourself.)
Oh, I can answer on list and the answer is a resounding YES! Jacob
was his father's favorite scapegoat. I know he still has
conflicting emotions about his father but he has come to an
acceptance (of sorts) of his father's limitations. This does not
mean that it is easy for him. In fact, its tough and it sucks for
all of them.
>
> Be careful of using "we" and "our" if you can't really speak for
everyone in
> the group.
> Maybe you're right and "our" was the thing to use, but it sounds
pretty close
> to unmanageable, and maybe therapy for the dad and the marriage
would have
> been better than a divorce. Maybe not, but you've made choices
that affect
> other people, and you might need to make that up to them, and be
sensitive to
> that.
I will completely take responsibility for the decisions I have
made. It is not so unmanageable now as it sounds, believe it or
not. I posted in a state of high frustration, which I should know
better than to do but there you have it. Ross(their father) is in
therapy, has been in therapy and there is little improvment to be
expected given his "diagnosis." Given the fact that he still
COMPLETELY denies that there is any problem after more than two
years of therapy, and a few different psych evals, improvement will
be a loonnggg time coming. The description of NPD does not even
begin to convey the difficulty of living with someone who is that
way. (I am not a big fan of the label wagon, but this one has
helped return sanity to my life.)
>
> -=-Do I sound like I am blaming him? I hope not-=-
> -=-It's really Jacob's current decision to antagonize everyone in
the
> house.-=-
>
> When you post to this list, please be as kind toward your children
as you can
> be, and please be as carefully honest as you can be. If you
hoped it didn't
> sound like you were blaming him, you could have edited the
paragraph. The
> simple act of editing your paragraph to make it consistent would
have been
> therapeutic and revealing for you.
Actually, I did edit the paragraph because as it was first written,
it was completely unacceptable and not true. I mean, even worse
than what it ended up as, 'cause that is unacceptable and not true
also. To be honest, I guess I knew it still sounded blaming but I
just didn't know how to say what I wanted to say. Heck, I'll skip
the excuses. I was operating on about 3 hours sleep when I wrote it
and was still pissed off. Meanwhile, all the kids except Josie were
still sleeping. After I wrote about it, I felt better and we have
had a good day. We are all in the living room watching the
Discovery channel. Kaylin is asleep on the floor and Josie is out
on the futon. Life seems normal.
>
> -=-when it is 3AM and I am woken up by kids screaming at
> each other over purposely annoying behavior, I am NOT a happy
> person.-=-
>
> It doesn't sound like they're happy people either, but at 3:00
your house
> should REALLY be quiet. There are probably laws being violated
if anyone is
> your house is screaming at 3:00 a.m. unless you live way out in
the country with
> no neighbors. You could quite honestly tell your children that
police or
> social services people could step in if they can't be quiet from
10:00 at night
> to morning on "school nights," because that's the plain and honest
truth. But
> don't shame them about it, because you decided not to have a
bedtime without
> having corresponding deals in place to make it safe and peaceful
at night.
There has never been a need to spell out a "corresponding deal"
because it has never been a problem. I never expected it to be a
problem.
> EVERYone in your family needs quiet and peace, but you're the
oldest and wisest
> and it's your responsibility.
>
> Sandra
Ann
There are reasons for quiet. Quiet doesn't have to be "get in bed with the
lights out and go to sleep or get a spanking." There's a wide world of
option between that and screaming at 3:00 a.m. They are absolutely and not even
NEAR the only two choices.
________________
We had to try a few options because just eliminating bedtime didn't work for us either. We have 'bedroom time'. This is is so that Dad can get the rest he needs to be at work by 8am. Thus Sunday-Thursday everyone goes to their own rooms at that time, they may do anything they want in their room as long as no one else hears them. If it ever even once disturbs some one else, then that activity is off the list of choices for that time. My teen often listens to music with headphones on and falls asleep that way. My 12 year old often reads or draws for about an hour but then goes to sleep. My 11 yr old son is a 'lark', he usually puts himself to bed around 9.
If I had a little one, I would let them have a bottle anytime they wanted. Recovering from traumatic family circumstances means that whatever aids comfort and healing needs to be the priortiy. Do your little ones co-sleep? When mine were little, just being in bed with me, having their bottle or nursing with lights out and quiet setled them down very quickly. Oh and it really helped to give them a nice warm bath before bed it was a soothing transition thing. Even now, my kids like a hot shower before bed. I hope something works for you and you get some sleep soon. It sounds like you have really been through hell.
Ann
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
lights out and go to sleep or get a spanking." There's a wide world of
option between that and screaming at 3:00 a.m. They are absolutely and not even
NEAR the only two choices.
________________
We had to try a few options because just eliminating bedtime didn't work for us either. We have 'bedroom time'. This is is so that Dad can get the rest he needs to be at work by 8am. Thus Sunday-Thursday everyone goes to their own rooms at that time, they may do anything they want in their room as long as no one else hears them. If it ever even once disturbs some one else, then that activity is off the list of choices for that time. My teen often listens to music with headphones on and falls asleep that way. My 12 year old often reads or draws for about an hour but then goes to sleep. My 11 yr old son is a 'lark', he usually puts himself to bed around 9.
If I had a little one, I would let them have a bottle anytime they wanted. Recovering from traumatic family circumstances means that whatever aids comfort and healing needs to be the priortiy. Do your little ones co-sleep? When mine were little, just being in bed with me, having their bottle or nursing with lights out and quiet setled them down very quickly. Oh and it really helped to give them a nice warm bath before bed it was a soothing transition thing. Even now, my kids like a hot shower before bed. I hope something works for you and you get some sleep soon. It sounds like you have really been through hell.
Ann
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy Hill
I'd guess that the reality at your house is that everyone is tired and
everyone has been really stressed out by your daughter's illness and by
dad leaving. On top of that there might naturally be a feeling of
sibling rivalry and jealousy in the hearts of the kids that weren't sick
and didn't get the extra time and worry that one child did get.
It's really hard that you can't have people over to babysit or help
because of the immune issues. Maybe people can at least leave
casseroles on your porch or loan you some new DVDs and books on tape?
(When I'm exhausted, I think the easiest way to love a kid is
half-asleep cuddling on the couch while they watch something on TV.)
Maybe they can take one or two of the kids on outings? Or chat with
your kids on the phone or at least be penpals? Secret Santas?
Give as much love and attention as you can, possibly looking for the
easiest ways you can think of to make your kids feel great. (Hugs in
passing? Tiny favors? Serving special foods? Reading very favorite
books?) Your life will be easier and their behavior better once they
feel more secure. You are undoubtedly frazzled, but summon up as much
gooey love and serenity as you possibly can in each moment. Smell the
kids heads and remember everything you love most about them. Get out
photo albums and talk to them affectionately about things they did when
they were little.
Some of my favorite stress-management techniques are deep breathing,
laughing and singing. While listening to music cheers me up, singing
along feels like an even better stress release. So play some Christmas
carols, or other music that you like, and sing and frolic a little with
your kids. It's the cheapest therapy I can think of.
Best wishes,
Betsy
PS I encourage my son to go to bed at around 10 because his dad gets up
at 5:30 and it's easier to get enough sleep. Often he'll just read
until he falls asleep. If he feels to energetic to do that, then he
stays up watching TV until 11 or so, but that isn't great for me, as our
house is fairly open and he laughs really loud at The Simpsons. My
personal rule isn't "no bedtimes" it's "no bullying the kid into going
to bed".
everyone has been really stressed out by your daughter's illness and by
dad leaving. On top of that there might naturally be a feeling of
sibling rivalry and jealousy in the hearts of the kids that weren't sick
and didn't get the extra time and worry that one child did get.
It's really hard that you can't have people over to babysit or help
because of the immune issues. Maybe people can at least leave
casseroles on your porch or loan you some new DVDs and books on tape?
(When I'm exhausted, I think the easiest way to love a kid is
half-asleep cuddling on the couch while they watch something on TV.)
Maybe they can take one or two of the kids on outings? Or chat with
your kids on the phone or at least be penpals? Secret Santas?
Give as much love and attention as you can, possibly looking for the
easiest ways you can think of to make your kids feel great. (Hugs in
passing? Tiny favors? Serving special foods? Reading very favorite
books?) Your life will be easier and their behavior better once they
feel more secure. You are undoubtedly frazzled, but summon up as much
gooey love and serenity as you possibly can in each moment. Smell the
kids heads and remember everything you love most about them. Get out
photo albums and talk to them affectionately about things they did when
they were little.
Some of my favorite stress-management techniques are deep breathing,
laughing and singing. While listening to music cheers me up, singing
along feels like an even better stress release. So play some Christmas
carols, or other music that you like, and sing and frolic a little with
your kids. It's the cheapest therapy I can think of.
Best wishes,
Betsy
PS I encourage my son to go to bed at around 10 because his dad gets up
at 5:30 and it's easier to get enough sleep. Often he'll just read
until he falls asleep. If he feels to energetic to do that, then he
stays up watching TV until 11 or so, but that isn't great for me, as our
house is fairly open and he laughs really loud at The Simpsons. My
personal rule isn't "no bedtimes" it's "no bullying the kid into going
to bed".