Music Lessons
Magdalena
My son Matthew wanted to play violin and he wanted lessons. He chose
a Suzuki teacher and he enjoyed learning some of the 'form' from her
but when he began to play songs she had not assigned she insisted
that he NOT do that and she especially did not like that he had
memorized some of those same songs. When he asked her to show him how
to play vibrato she told him that he couldn't learn that until Book
__.
She was also against the child learning to tune his own instrument.
He fired her as his teacher and just kept playing on his own.
His older brother wanted to learn fiddle style and chose a teacher
which didn't last long either. Both brothers are teaching themselves.
Their younger brother plays now and plays what he hears the other
boys playing. Little sister age 6 LOVES playing and she doesn't want a
teacher nor is she interested in learning the same things the boys
are playing. She simply puts a CD on the stereo and plays along. She
wants to play piano so we bought one for $50.00 from an estate sale
and she plays lovely little songs with no lessons. All the children
love to sing folk songs and love music in general. The oldest is also
teaching himself to play guitar and then wants a banjo.
It is senseless to hire a teacher who tries to control and kill the
love of the instrument that the child has!!
Magdalena
a Suzuki teacher and he enjoyed learning some of the 'form' from her
but when he began to play songs she had not assigned she insisted
that he NOT do that and she especially did not like that he had
memorized some of those same songs. When he asked her to show him how
to play vibrato she told him that he couldn't learn that until Book
__.
She was also against the child learning to tune his own instrument.
He fired her as his teacher and just kept playing on his own.
His older brother wanted to learn fiddle style and chose a teacher
which didn't last long either. Both brothers are teaching themselves.
Their younger brother plays now and plays what he hears the other
boys playing. Little sister age 6 LOVES playing and she doesn't want a
teacher nor is she interested in learning the same things the boys
are playing. She simply puts a CD on the stereo and plays along. She
wants to play piano so we bought one for $50.00 from an estate sale
and she plays lovely little songs with no lessons. All the children
love to sing folk songs and love music in general. The oldest is also
teaching himself to play guitar and then wants a banjo.
It is senseless to hire a teacher who tries to control and kill the
love of the instrument that the child has!!
Magdalena
Regina Stevenson-Healy
I am really learning to appreciate my daughter Spring's piano teacher.
Spring just started lessons this fall and early on she brought in a
Brownie song book which we had just bought. The teacher asked her if
she wanted to learn how to play a song from it and pretty soon she
learned the melody and they started working on a simplified harmony
part for the left hand. The teacher hosted a Halloween party and one
of the students played "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and a couple
of weeks later my daughter was picking the tune out on the piano. I
mentioned it to the teacher and she found the music for her and
started to help her begin learning it that day, even though it is a
rather advanced piece for a beginner. I think it is so cool that my
daughter has a teacher that will incorporate whatever she is interested
in into the lessons.
Regina
Spring just started lessons this fall and early on she brought in a
Brownie song book which we had just bought. The teacher asked her if
she wanted to learn how to play a song from it and pretty soon she
learned the melody and they started working on a simplified harmony
part for the left hand. The teacher hosted a Halloween party and one
of the students played "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and a couple
of weeks later my daughter was picking the tune out on the piano. I
mentioned it to the teacher and she found the music for her and
started to help her begin learning it that day, even though it is a
rather advanced piece for a beginner. I think it is so cool that my
daughter has a teacher that will incorporate whatever she is interested
in into the lessons.
Regina
On Monday, February 16, 2004, at 12:02 PM, Magdalena wrote:
> My son Matthew wanted to play violin and he wanted lessons. He chose
> a Suzuki teacher and he enjoyed learning some of the 'form' from her
> but when he began to play songs she had not assigned she insisted
> that he NOT do that and she especially did not like that he had
> memorized some of those same songs. When he asked her to show him how
> to play vibrato she told him that he couldn't learn that until Book
> __.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
Hello All. I am writing to ask opinions about my children's responses to Piano
and other music lessons. My son (14) and daughter (11) began Piano lessons a
few months ago. Their teacher is lovely, laid back, and very gentle in her
approach. She lets them guide the way. Jonah hated the music, and has decided
to return to electric guitar lessons (which he stopped when he felt too
pressured). Julia has now decided that she doesn't like to practice and
therefore doesn't want to continue lessons. Getting her to practice is about as
much fun as asking for help around the house! I have explained to her that this
is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do, but
something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling of
accomplishment and of course the music she has created.
Some of the "advice" I have received has been to force them to continue, that by
letting them stop I am teaching them to quit.....yada yada yada
Comments anyone??
Carole (still) in CT
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
and other music lessons. My son (14) and daughter (11) began Piano lessons a
few months ago. Their teacher is lovely, laid back, and very gentle in her
approach. She lets them guide the way. Jonah hated the music, and has decided
to return to electric guitar lessons (which he stopped when he felt too
pressured). Julia has now decided that she doesn't like to practice and
therefore doesn't want to continue lessons. Getting her to practice is about as
much fun as asking for help around the house! I have explained to her that this
is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do, but
something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling of
accomplishment and of course the music she has created.
Some of the "advice" I have received has been to force them to continue, that by
letting them stop I am teaching them to quit.....yada yada yada
Comments anyone??
Carole (still) in CT
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- Getting her to practice is about as
much fun as asking for help around the house! -=-
Do you ask her for help around the house?
I'm wondering... because seriously, you can never get that wonderful
joy of volunteer help as long as you keep asking.
I'm also wondering if you expected piano lessons to be somehow exempt
from the principles of natural learning otherwise. Whose idea was it
for them to take those lessons?
"My son (14) and daughter (11) began Piano lessons a few months ago."
Just spontaneously began taking lessons and informed you later?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
much fun as asking for help around the house! -=-
Do you ask her for help around the house?
I'm wondering... because seriously, you can never get that wonderful
joy of volunteer help as long as you keep asking.
I'm also wondering if you expected piano lessons to be somehow exempt
from the principles of natural learning otherwise. Whose idea was it
for them to take those lessons?
"My son (14) and daughter (11) began Piano lessons a few months ago."
Just spontaneously began taking lessons and informed you later?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 20, 2010, at 3:17 PM, Cally wrote:
than the goal is worth at the moment?)
Is progress the goal or is exploration and enjoyment of music and an
instrument the goal?
Does she get to pick the songs she learns? Or are they chosen for her
to learn particular skills?
Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. You have
no control over the drive, but you do have control over the
environment where drive can be sparked. For my daughter it was a DVD
of Van Halen videos (after 15 years of sharing music with her dad) and
reignited by a Judas Priest video on VH1.
The key is support for *their* explorations in a rich environment
where they can explore and stumble across things that intrigue them
and parents with no investment in the direction or a goal other than
enjoyment. If parents keep pulling their kids attention back to the
path the parents think is important the kids will struggle to turn
away so they can explore the paths the kids think are intriguing. Keep
the paths open and accompany them where they lead.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Julia has now decided that she doesn't like to practice andIs practicing a condition of continuing lessons? Yours? The teachers?
> therefore doesn't want to continue lessons.
> I have explained to her that thisIs that her goal? (What is her goal? Is the effort to reach it more
> is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do,
> but
> something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling
> of
> accomplishment and of course the music she has created.
than the goal is worth at the moment?)
Is progress the goal or is exploration and enjoyment of music and an
instrument the goal?
Does she get to pick the songs she learns? Or are they chosen for her
to learn particular skills?
Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. You have
no control over the drive, but you do have control over the
environment where drive can be sparked. For my daughter it was a DVD
of Van Halen videos (after 15 years of sharing music with her dad) and
reignited by a Judas Priest video on VH1.
The key is support for *their* explorations in a rich environment
where they can explore and stumble across things that intrigue them
and parents with no investment in the direction or a goal other than
enjoyment. If parents keep pulling their kids attention back to the
path the parents think is important the kids will struggle to turn
away so they can explore the paths the kids think are intriguing. Keep
the paths open and accompany them where they lead.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. -=-
Yes!
And neither of those is good as PLAYING the instrument.
Calling it "practice" sticks a pin in the butterfly that playing
should be.
This discussion has come up several times on this list or
UnschoolingDiscussion (which is fairly dormant, but the archives are
huge and still there), but I don't think I ever saved any of those.
If anyone did, this would be a good time to link that. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. -=-
Yes!
And neither of those is good as PLAYING the instrument.
Calling it "practice" sticks a pin in the butterfly that playing
should be.
This discussion has come up several times on this list or
UnschoolingDiscussion (which is fairly dormant, but the archives are
huge and still there), but I don't think I ever saved any of those.
If anyone did, this would be a good time to link that. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
I checked the archives and found some discussion but none as helpful as these
comments.
Thanks Everyone!
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 11:23:05 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Music Lessons
-=-Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. -=-
Yes!
And neither of those is good as PLAYING the instrument.
Calling it "practice" sticks a pin in the butterfly that playing
should be.
This discussion has come up several times on this list or
UnschoolingDiscussion (which is fairly dormant, but the archives are
huge and still there), but I don't think I ever saved any of those.
If anyone did, this would be a good time to link that. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
comments.
Thanks Everyone!
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 11:23:05 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Music Lessons
-=-Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. -=-
Yes!
And neither of those is good as PLAYING the instrument.
Calling it "practice" sticks a pin in the butterfly that playing
should be.
This discussion has come up several times on this list or
UnschoolingDiscussion (which is fairly dormant, but the archives are
huge and still there), but I don't think I ever saved any of those.
If anyone did, this would be a good time to link that. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
=Do you ask her for help around the house?
I'm wondering... because seriously, you can never get that wonderful
joy of volunteer help as long as you keep asking.=
I have tried many avenues to keeping this house livable (note I did not say
clean). I have asked for help, we have had family discussions about what we can
do to help one another keep the house the way we want it... cooperation charts
and of course my nagging, ranting and raving which of course does nothing.
=I'm also wondering if you expected piano lessons to be somehow exempt
from the principles of natural learning otherwise. Whose idea was it
for them to take those lessons?=
YES! For some reason I did. I of all people - the Julliard student was told to
put up or quit!! I am concerned that the $25.00 weekly is so hard to come up
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.
Jonah asked for lessons, and when Julia and I accompanied him there, Julia also
wanted to begin. Heck,I started playing again too. And that being said, there
are weeks I don't practice, or play then there are times I play for hours.
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm wondering... because seriously, you can never get that wonderful
joy of volunteer help as long as you keep asking.=
I have tried many avenues to keeping this house livable (note I did not say
clean). I have asked for help, we have had family discussions about what we can
do to help one another keep the house the way we want it... cooperation charts
and of course my nagging, ranting and raving which of course does nothing.
=I'm also wondering if you expected piano lessons to be somehow exempt
from the principles of natural learning otherwise. Whose idea was it
for them to take those lessons?=
YES! For some reason I did. I of all people - the Julliard student was told to
put up or quit!! I am concerned that the $25.00 weekly is so hard to come up
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.
Jonah asked for lessons, and when Julia and I accompanied him there, Julia also
wanted to begin. Heck,I started playing again too. And that being said, there
are weeks I don't practice, or play then there are times I play for hours.
There are two ways to live: you can live as if nothing is a miracle; you can
live as if everything is a miracle.
Albert Einstein
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
This was brilliant. Thank you Joyce.
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
=Is practicing a condition of continuing lessons? Yours? The teachers?=
than the goal is worth at the moment?)
Is progress the goal or is exploration and enjoyment of music and an
instrument the goal?
Does she get to pick the songs she learns? Or are they chosen for her
to learn particular skills?
Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. You have
no control over the drive, but you do have control over the
environment where drive can be sparked. For my daughter it was a DVD
of Van Halen videos (after 15 years of sharing music with her dad) and
reignited by a Judas Priest video on VH1.
The key is support for *their* explorations in a rich environment
where they can explore and stumble across things that intrigue them
and parents with no investment in the direction or a goal other than
enjoyment. If parents keep pulling their kids attention back to the
path the parents think is important the kids will struggle to turn
away so they can explore the paths the kids think are intriguing. Keep
the paths open and accompany them where they lead.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
From: Joyce Fetteroll <jfetteroll@...>
=Is practicing a condition of continuing lessons? Yours? The teachers?=
> I have explained to her that thisIs that her goal? (What is her goal? Is the effort to reach it more
> is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do,
> but
> something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling
> of
> accomplishment and of course the music she has created.
than the goal is worth at the moment?)
Is progress the goal or is exploration and enjoyment of music and an
instrument the goal?
Does she get to pick the songs she learns? Or are they chosen for her
to learn particular skills?
Practicing because someone tells you you'll get better is a poor
cousin to practicing because someone is driven to get better. You have
no control over the drive, but you do have control over the
environment where drive can be sparked. For my daughter it was a DVD
of Van Halen videos (after 15 years of sharing music with her dad) and
reignited by a Judas Priest video on VH1.
The key is support for *their* explorations in a rich environment
where they can explore and stumble across things that intrigue them
and parents with no investment in the direction or a goal other than
enjoyment. If parents keep pulling their kids attention back to the
path the parents think is important the kids will struggle to turn
away so they can explore the paths the kids think are intriguing. Keep
the paths open and accompany them where they lead.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I checked the archives and found some discussion but none as
helpful as these
comments. -=-
But it's not a recommendation to just change what you call what you're
requiring.
And you didn't answer any of our questions, either. That's fine; you
don't have to. But if you're requiring those lessons and if you
intend to require "practice" but are going to call it "playing"
instead, that's not a solution.
Playing an instrument isn't scheduled daily for half an hour.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
helpful as these
comments. -=-
But it's not a recommendation to just change what you call what you're
requiring.
And you didn't answer any of our questions, either. That's fine; you
don't have to. But if you're requiring those lessons and if you
intend to require "practice" but are going to call it "playing"
instead, that's not a solution.
Playing an instrument isn't scheduled daily for half an hour.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Oh Sorry. You did answer the questions. <g>
-=I have tried many avenues to keeping this house livable (note I did
not say
clean). I have asked for help, we have had family discussions about
what we can
do to help one another keep the house the way we want it...
cooperation charts
and of course my nagging, ranting and raving which of course does
nothing.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Seriously. Nagging and ranting and raving and chore charts and many
avenues are all avenues to bad relationships and resentment. If the
house IS clean, it's clean with an air of sorrow or resentment over it
like dust.
-=-Jonah asked for lessons, and when Julia and I accompanied him
there, Julia also
wanted to begin. Heck,I started playing again too. And that being
said, there
are weeks I don't practice, or play then there are times I play for
hours. -=-
The $25 is the same whether they practice or not. If they look
forward to the lessons, that's better than if they've practice and
don't want to go to the lessons. I used to play like crazy when I was
a kid sometimes--not from the right lesson, maybe just hymnals,
transposing keys, messing around, playing from vocal books, trying the
accompaniment lines, maybe just one hand if it was hard. Some weeks I
didn't practice, and went to the lesson anyway, because I would
usually rather anywhere than at my house.
I think many people stop taking lessons because they're tired of their
parents nagging and shaming them all those days in between.
I think the fact that you've "started playing again too" is
significant and probably helpful.
The fact that you had stopped playing should be looked at, probably,
for some emotional clues you can use while deciding how to proceed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=I have tried many avenues to keeping this house livable (note I did
not say
clean). I have asked for help, we have had family discussions about
what we can
do to help one another keep the house the way we want it...
cooperation charts
and of course my nagging, ranting and raving which of course does
nothing.-=-
http://sandradodd.com/chores
Seriously. Nagging and ranting and raving and chore charts and many
avenues are all avenues to bad relationships and resentment. If the
house IS clean, it's clean with an air of sorrow or resentment over it
like dust.
-=-Jonah asked for lessons, and when Julia and I accompanied him
there, Julia also
wanted to begin. Heck,I started playing again too. And that being
said, there
are weeks I don't practice, or play then there are times I play for
hours. -=-
The $25 is the same whether they practice or not. If they look
forward to the lessons, that's better than if they've practice and
don't want to go to the lessons. I used to play like crazy when I was
a kid sometimes--not from the right lesson, maybe just hymnals,
transposing keys, messing around, playing from vocal books, trying the
accompaniment lines, maybe just one hand if it was hard. Some weeks I
didn't practice, and went to the lesson anyway, because I would
usually rather anywhere than at my house.
I think many people stop taking lessons because they're tired of their
parents nagging and shaming them all those days in between.
I think the fact that you've "started playing again too" is
significant and probably helpful.
The fact that you had stopped playing should be looked at, probably,
for some emotional clues you can use while deciding how to proceed.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***Jonah hated the music, and has decided
to return to electric guitar lessons (which he stopped when he felt too
pressured). Julia has now decided that she doesn't like to practice and
therefore doesn't want to continue lessons.***
Can they each just play when and what they feel like playing? Playing music
should be enjoyable. I grew up with a musician, and then married one. Neither
of them did well with formal lessons. My mother took piano lessons as a child
and can play the piano pretty well, but my dad never took lessons and plays the
guitar and can write and compose music. My husband did a variety of music
related things in school, band, choir, etc, so he knows how to read music, but
in everyday life, he just plays what he feels like playing. He plays several
instruments that he's never had lessons for, violin, piano, bass, drums, guitar.
***Getting her to practice is about as much fun as asking for help around the
house! I have explained to her that this
is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do, but
something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling of
accomplishment and of course the music she has created.***
My oldest daughter has a friend that started playing the piano on her own when
she was little. She never stopped playing. Her parents gave her music lessons
which she took for a while and got what she needed and then stopped taking them.
She still plays the piano. She plays all the time, she loves it. It isn't
practice, it's real playing, the same as when she first started doing when she
was about 6 or 7.
Practicing a musical instrument has some merit, but ultimately it's not playing
a musical instrument, it's practicing, doing drills and such. That can be fun,
but only if the person likes doing those sorts of drills. I took violin lessons
for many years. I liked doing those drills, but mostly because I pretty much
suck at actually playing the violin. I could be good at all those exercises and
playing the various songs that I practiced, but that never expanded beyond. I
never played just because I loved to play.
Just like housework, don't make it something to hate or dread. Don't force it,
don't coerce it. If you want to do housework, then do housework, if you want to
play music, then play music. Do it because you enjoy it, not because you have
to. What is the point otherwise? Is there some goal at the end, a prize to be
won? That's the kind of thinking school does to us, do this ____ and attain
_____. It's very goal oriented. One could live their whole lives seeking goal
after goal and never finding meaning and joy in their lives, RIGHT NOW!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to return to electric guitar lessons (which he stopped when he felt too
pressured). Julia has now decided that she doesn't like to practice and
therefore doesn't want to continue lessons.***
Can they each just play when and what they feel like playing? Playing music
should be enjoyable. I grew up with a musician, and then married one. Neither
of them did well with formal lessons. My mother took piano lessons as a child
and can play the piano pretty well, but my dad never took lessons and plays the
guitar and can write and compose music. My husband did a variety of music
related things in school, band, choir, etc, so he knows how to read music, but
in everyday life, he just plays what he feels like playing. He plays several
instruments that he's never had lessons for, violin, piano, bass, drums, guitar.
***Getting her to practice is about as much fun as asking for help around the
house! I have explained to her that this
is something that is not punishment or even school that she must do, but
something that if she puts in the effort she might enjoy the feeling of
accomplishment and of course the music she has created.***
My oldest daughter has a friend that started playing the piano on her own when
she was little. She never stopped playing. Her parents gave her music lessons
which she took for a while and got what she needed and then stopped taking them.
She still plays the piano. She plays all the time, she loves it. It isn't
practice, it's real playing, the same as when she first started doing when she
was about 6 or 7.
Practicing a musical instrument has some merit, but ultimately it's not playing
a musical instrument, it's practicing, doing drills and such. That can be fun,
but only if the person likes doing those sorts of drills. I took violin lessons
for many years. I liked doing those drills, but mostly because I pretty much
suck at actually playing the violin. I could be good at all those exercises and
playing the various songs that I practiced, but that never expanded beyond. I
never played just because I loved to play.
Just like housework, don't make it something to hate or dread. Don't force it,
don't coerce it. If you want to do housework, then do housework, if you want to
play music, then play music. Do it because you enjoy it, not because you have
to. What is the point otherwise? Is there some goal at the end, a prize to be
won? That's the kind of thinking school does to us, do this ____ and attain
_____. It's very goal oriented. One could live their whole lives seeking goal
after goal and never finding meaning and joy in their lives, RIGHT NOW!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I am concerned that the $25.00 weekly is so hard to come up
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop
playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.***
Can you pay someone to clean your house for $25 a week and free yourself up to
play more music with your daughter?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop
playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.***
Can you pay someone to clean your house for $25 a week and free yourself up to
play more music with your daughter?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<Can you pay someone to clean your house for $25 a week and free yourself
up to
play more music with your daughter? >
Great idea but to pay someone to clean your house is more like 165.00 a
week, around here anyway. If there is anyone that will clean house for
$25.00 a week I'd be glad to find them.
But about the lessons, I understand when the children want them and it
seems we sacrifice and then they decide they don't want them after all. Seems
hard to swallow but the truth is it's even worse to continue to pay for
something they've lost interest in.
My sister in law (whom I've known since we were 13 and not even thinking of
being related, plays piano by ear, she taught herself. When it was
pointed out to her parents that she might even be GREAT if she had lessons, they
got her some. She didn't want them. She was too advanced on her own for
weekly piano lessons with a classically trained teacher who was appalled at
her lack of "correct form". She could play any song she heard and play
well. While she was taking lessons she learned to HATE to play for practice
or for anything remotely close to the lessons.
They finally figured out their money would be better spent on other
things. Surely, over time, she began to enjoy playing again, without lessons.
I'm not saying everyone that WANTS to play an instrument will figure it out
on their own, I supposed there is some degree of natural talent or an ear
for music that doesn't exist in everyone, but it certainly speaks to
motivation and the LOVE of the music and playing it.
I'm thinking the answer is to just talk the child and ask them if they
really want to continue with the lessons, maybe they're just don't want to do
lessons right now, maybe they'll want to do it at another time. Maybe at
another time the lesson money won't even be so hard to come up with. If
they still want lessons maybe they have to figure out how to do what the music
teacher requires for each class without feeling forced but see it as a
continuum of the lessons that they DO want.
I know it's sometimes hard to reconcile that we GAVE them what they want
but now they don't WANT it. It's our stuff, we have to figure out how to
let go of it.
glena
In a message dated 7/21/2010 4:27:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jenstarc4@... writes:
***I am concerned that the $25.00 weekly is so hard to come up
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop
playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time
we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.***
Can you pay someone to clean your house for $25 a week and free yourself
up to
play more music with your daughter?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
up to
play more music with your daughter? >
Great idea but to pay someone to clean your house is more like 165.00 a
week, around here anyway. If there is anyone that will clean house for
$25.00 a week I'd be glad to find them.
But about the lessons, I understand when the children want them and it
seems we sacrifice and then they decide they don't want them after all. Seems
hard to swallow but the truth is it's even worse to continue to pay for
something they've lost interest in.
My sister in law (whom I've known since we were 13 and not even thinking of
being related, plays piano by ear, she taught herself. When it was
pointed out to her parents that she might even be GREAT if she had lessons, they
got her some. She didn't want them. She was too advanced on her own for
weekly piano lessons with a classically trained teacher who was appalled at
her lack of "correct form". She could play any song she heard and play
well. While she was taking lessons she learned to HATE to play for practice
or for anything remotely close to the lessons.
They finally figured out their money would be better spent on other
things. Surely, over time, she began to enjoy playing again, without lessons.
I'm not saying everyone that WANTS to play an instrument will figure it out
on their own, I supposed there is some degree of natural talent or an ear
for music that doesn't exist in everyone, but it certainly speaks to
motivation and the LOVE of the music and playing it.
I'm thinking the answer is to just talk the child and ask them if they
really want to continue with the lessons, maybe they're just don't want to do
lessons right now, maybe they'll want to do it at another time. Maybe at
another time the lesson money won't even be so hard to come up with. If
they still want lessons maybe they have to figure out how to do what the music
teacher requires for each class without feeling forced but see it as a
continuum of the lessons that they DO want.
I know it's sometimes hard to reconcile that we GAVE them what they want
but now they don't WANT it. It's our stuff, we have to figure out how to
let go of it.
glena
In a message dated 7/21/2010 4:27:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jenstarc4@... writes:
***I am concerned that the $25.00 weekly is so hard to come up
with each week. I am feeling pressured (old thinking) that if she isn't
practicing she isn't getting enough out of it, therefore she should stop
playing
if she doesn't want to practice. HOWEVER ..that being said, the one time
we sat
down together, she liked that and played longer.***
Can you pay someone to clean your house for $25 a week and free yourself
up to
play more music with your daughter?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Great idea but to pay someone to clean your house is more like
165.00 a
week, around here anyway. If there is anyone that will clean house for
$25.00 a week I'd be glad to find them.-=-
MANY people would come over for two or three hours for $25, and do
some straightening up, maybe a bathroom and a kitchen floor.
The $165 a week involves being bonded, the cleaning people bringing
their own supplies and equipment and doing a certifiably thorough job.
If a mom feels she has no time, it would be possible for her to buy
some time.
Sanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
165.00 a
week, around here anyway. If there is anyone that will clean house for
$25.00 a week I'd be glad to find them.-=-
MANY people would come over for two or three hours for $25, and do
some straightening up, maybe a bathroom and a kitchen floor.
The $165 a week involves being bonded, the cleaning people bringing
their own supplies and equipment and doing a certifiably thorough job.
If a mom feels she has no time, it would be possible for her to buy
some time.
Sanda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-MANY people would come over for two or three hours for $25, -=-
Wait, wait.... for $25 you could get one person. Probably not "many"
at the same time. :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wait, wait.... for $25 you could get one person. Probably not "many"
at the same time. :-)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachael
Hello everyone...I am new to the group (joined about 2 minutes ago), but I felt the need to address this question since it is very close to home. A little background
My mother is a professional pianist/accompanist/teacher. She worked with Jascha Heifetz, Leila Josefowicz, Dylana Jenson (etc.). When I was born she was determined that I would become the next great violinist and I started when I was 2 ½ . I was miserable to say the least. One day when I was about seven I found a tape recording of myself at age 3. My mom was pregnant with my brother and was asking me whether I wanted a brother or sister to which I answered I wanted a cello. My mom dismissed the answer and went on talking. Well, my grandmother heard the recording and suggested she switch me to cello. At eight I began lessons and excelled quickly. (Yes, musical family 4th generation.) Thing is, I also liked ballet, gymnastics, ice skating and sports. My mom though asked each of my coaches whether I had any potential to develop a career out of them. The answer was no. All of my lessons, except for cello stopped. I was made to practice every day, and threatened with many things if I did not. I began to resent the cello.
side note. I have always loved working with children, always was the "game leader", and involved with peer counseling and other things at school
When I graduated High School I was sent (literally the next day) to a Training Camp to " learn how to teach. " I started teaching that August and within two years had a studio of about 20 pupils. So here is the catch I love teaching. I mean really love it. There is nothing I enjoy more than going out to work with children (and adults) of all ages and levels. I have so much fun my work seems more like play to me. (I have been teaching 21 years now). But when it comes to the actual cello part, well, I could switch it to something else (if I knew something else as well). My whole life was set up to do what I do now. (Although I am constantly reminded by my mom what a great performer I could have been haven't performed since the kids were born.) I don't go out of my way to hear concerts, or listen to cello music but I have numerous students at conservatories around the country though that do have this passion. I do still love the cello, and the little three year old in me who asked for it is still there, but there is also so much baggage and memories that are painful. Because of this I know I teach differently than the teacher who finds the cello (or any instrument) to be the most important thing in life. I have always strived to make lessons enjoyable for my students, and for them to want to learn cello. (I think even more so since I have started down this path). And yes, I have had many students whos parents have forced them to play (and practice), but none of them have wanted to stop lessons because they enjoy coming. And you know what? They do learn. They may not learn as much as the students that practice daily, but many of them have a love for the cello the others who are forced to do not.
If your child is enjoying the lessons, continue them. If the lessons are not enjoyable, stop. Not everyone needs to learn how to play an instrument, or how to play it "correctly". Let him or her come to it because it is something they have a passion for, and want to do. Then it will be something they will carry with them for the rest of their life with good feelings associated with it.
Oh, that was the other thing I was going to say. When I turned 20 I started skating again, sometimes as much as 4 hours a day. I loved it, the smell of the ice, the cold, the feeling of the blades against the ice. For 8 years I followed this passion, and my mom protested the whole time about me breaking something and not being able to teach. I didn't listen. Then I got to the point where I just really couldn't go any further, mostly my own fear at that point. (I think!) I then started scrapbooking ("waste of time my mom said, you should practice" OMG I was 28!), and then when the kids were born doing home movies ("horrible rock music, can't watch it" was the response I got), and now for the last few years it has been gardening and raising our chickens. My mom, although she loves me and my husband and kids very much still thinks I have not reached my true potential. I agree with her in that one, except for her it is about, always has been, and will be, about the music, and for me it is about my family and parenting in a much different way than I was raised.
My mother is a professional pianist/accompanist/teacher. She worked with Jascha Heifetz, Leila Josefowicz, Dylana Jenson (etc.). When I was born she was determined that I would become the next great violinist and I started when I was 2 ½ . I was miserable to say the least. One day when I was about seven I found a tape recording of myself at age 3. My mom was pregnant with my brother and was asking me whether I wanted a brother or sister to which I answered I wanted a cello. My mom dismissed the answer and went on talking. Well, my grandmother heard the recording and suggested she switch me to cello. At eight I began lessons and excelled quickly. (Yes, musical family 4th generation.) Thing is, I also liked ballet, gymnastics, ice skating and sports. My mom though asked each of my coaches whether I had any potential to develop a career out of them. The answer was no. All of my lessons, except for cello stopped. I was made to practice every day, and threatened with many things if I did not. I began to resent the cello.
side note. I have always loved working with children, always was the "game leader", and involved with peer counseling and other things at school
When I graduated High School I was sent (literally the next day) to a Training Camp to " learn how to teach. " I started teaching that August and within two years had a studio of about 20 pupils. So here is the catch I love teaching. I mean really love it. There is nothing I enjoy more than going out to work with children (and adults) of all ages and levels. I have so much fun my work seems more like play to me. (I have been teaching 21 years now). But when it comes to the actual cello part, well, I could switch it to something else (if I knew something else as well). My whole life was set up to do what I do now. (Although I am constantly reminded by my mom what a great performer I could have been haven't performed since the kids were born.) I don't go out of my way to hear concerts, or listen to cello music but I have numerous students at conservatories around the country though that do have this passion. I do still love the cello, and the little three year old in me who asked for it is still there, but there is also so much baggage and memories that are painful. Because of this I know I teach differently than the teacher who finds the cello (or any instrument) to be the most important thing in life. I have always strived to make lessons enjoyable for my students, and for them to want to learn cello. (I think even more so since I have started down this path). And yes, I have had many students whos parents have forced them to play (and practice), but none of them have wanted to stop lessons because they enjoy coming. And you know what? They do learn. They may not learn as much as the students that practice daily, but many of them have a love for the cello the others who are forced to do not.
If your child is enjoying the lessons, continue them. If the lessons are not enjoyable, stop. Not everyone needs to learn how to play an instrument, or how to play it "correctly". Let him or her come to it because it is something they have a passion for, and want to do. Then it will be something they will carry with them for the rest of their life with good feelings associated with it.
Oh, that was the other thing I was going to say. When I turned 20 I started skating again, sometimes as much as 4 hours a day. I loved it, the smell of the ice, the cold, the feeling of the blades against the ice. For 8 years I followed this passion, and my mom protested the whole time about me breaking something and not being able to teach. I didn't listen. Then I got to the point where I just really couldn't go any further, mostly my own fear at that point. (I think!) I then started scrapbooking ("waste of time my mom said, you should practice" OMG I was 28!), and then when the kids were born doing home movies ("horrible rock music, can't watch it" was the response I got), and now for the last few years it has been gardening and raising our chickens. My mom, although she loves me and my husband and kids very much still thinks I have not reached my true potential. I agree with her in that one, except for her it is about, always has been, and will be, about the music, and for me it is about my family and parenting in a much different way than I was raised.
Selena Jones
Rachael - My heart just aches for you over here. To constantly be shut down
over and over and over again. I think in some circumstances we get to a
point in our life where we have to nurture and parent ourselves. Your mother
will never approve anything that is off the path she feels you need to
follow, but don't lose yourself in that. Do what you love for no other
reason than it feels good in your soul.
Hugs to you, and welcome to the group
Selena
over and over and over again. I think in some circumstances we get to a
point in our life where we have to nurture and parent ourselves. Your mother
will never approve anything that is off the path she feels you need to
follow, but don't lose yourself in that. Do what you love for no other
reason than it feels good in your soul.
Hugs to you, and welcome to the group
Selena
Sandra Dodd
-=-My mom, although she loves me and my husband and kids very much
still thinks I have not reached my true potential. I agree with her in
that one, except for her it is about, always has been, and will be,
about the music, and for me it is about my family and parenting in a
much different way than I was raised.-=-
This is really beautiful. I'm sorry you didn't get to skate and do
the other more physical things when you were little.
I found even when my first was a baby, before we even considered
homeschooling one way or the other, that it was deeply healing for me
to be sweet and gentle with him and to let him do things I wasn't
allowed to do, and to help him climb rather than say "get down."
I would like to quote your post in my collections, but would be
willing to change some details and leave out the quote and make it
anonymous if you would be worried that your mom might find it. (Or
I'd be willing to leave it just as is in case it might be healing if
she did find it.) If it's not safe at all for you to have it out
there, I'd understand that too.
I keep meaning to make a page just about practicing. The discussion
comes around once a year or so, somewhere or other.
This list is very quiet. The owners of it and probably most of the
members are also writing at Always Learning:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
still thinks I have not reached my true potential. I agree with her in
that one, except for her it is about, always has been, and will be,
about the music, and for me it is about my family and parenting in a
much different way than I was raised.-=-
This is really beautiful. I'm sorry you didn't get to skate and do
the other more physical things when you were little.
I found even when my first was a baby, before we even considered
homeschooling one way or the other, that it was deeply healing for me
to be sweet and gentle with him and to let him do things I wasn't
allowed to do, and to help him climb rather than say "get down."
I would like to quote your post in my collections, but would be
willing to change some details and leave out the quote and make it
anonymous if you would be worried that your mom might find it. (Or
I'd be willing to leave it just as is in case it might be healing if
she did find it.) If it's not safe at all for you to have it out
there, I'd understand that too.
I keep meaning to make a page just about practicing. The discussion
comes around once a year or so, somewhere or other.
This list is very quiet. The owners of it and probably most of the
members are also writing at Always Learning:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Cally
Rachael,
Thank you for sharing. I have received such wonderful support and guidance from
the people on this list. Your story is beautifully written and very moving.
As my children began piano lessons, I too started playing again and love it. My
son has switched to electric guitar and having studied guitar for years, I would
love to pick that again too. It's like being in a candy shop.
Years ago, after a lot of therapy I learned to limit my parents comments and
opinions about my life. That's not to say it doesn't sting or push my buttons
when they do opine, but I am quite adamant. I learned that if at first they
don't respect the boundaries I set or what I say, to repeat myself again and
again and again until they get the message.
Welcome to the group!
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you for sharing. I have received such wonderful support and guidance from
the people on this list. Your story is beautifully written and very moving.
As my children began piano lessons, I too started playing again and love it. My
son has switched to electric guitar and having studied guitar for years, I would
love to pick that again too. It's like being in a candy shop.
Years ago, after a lot of therapy I learned to limit my parents comments and
opinions about my life. That's not to say it doesn't sting or push my buttons
when they do opine, but I am quite adamant. I learned that if at first they
don't respect the boundaries I set or what I say, to repeat myself again and
again and again until they get the message.
Welcome to the group!
Carole in CT
When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a
red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-= Your mother will never approve anything that is off the path she
feels you need to follow-=-
She might.
People change.
-=-Do what you love for no other reason than it feels good in your
soul.-=-
This sounds vaguely supportive, but will it help people unschool?
Sandraa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feels you need to follow-=-
She might.
People change.
-=-Do what you love for no other reason than it feels good in your
soul.-=-
This sounds vaguely supportive, but will it help people unschool?
Sandraa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Selena Jones
My perspective is skewed to say the least right now. I'm in the middle of
trying to leave a very abusive marriage with my soul intact and my children
not emotionally crushed, so her post struck a chord with me, but for other
reasons.
My passion for unschooling runs deep and it's a struggle to let my children
experience the world at their own pace, and in their own way, with what is
going on in our house. When I am at my best, I can elaborate my points of
view and add more worth to conversations. But right now, I'm just trying to
get through the days.
Sorry if my previous post came off differently than I intended. I'm here to
read for inspiration and to remind myself of the path that I'm on and that
it will get better when my life is my own again and I can parent the way I
know I'm meant to, and to nurture my children without having to look over my
shoulder.
Selena
trying to leave a very abusive marriage with my soul intact and my children
not emotionally crushed, so her post struck a chord with me, but for other
reasons.
My passion for unschooling runs deep and it's a struggle to let my children
experience the world at their own pace, and in their own way, with what is
going on in our house. When I am at my best, I can elaborate my points of
view and add more worth to conversations. But right now, I'm just trying to
get through the days.
Sorry if my previous post came off differently than I intended. I'm here to
read for inspiration and to remind myself of the path that I'm on and that
it will get better when my life is my own again and I can parent the way I
know I'm meant to, and to nurture my children without having to look over my
shoulder.
Selena
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> -= Your mother will never approve anything that is off the path she
> feels you need to follow-=-
>
> She might.
> People change.
>
> -=-Do what you love for no other reason than it feels good in your
> soul.-=-
>
> This sounds vaguely supportive, but will it help people unschool?
>
> Sandraa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachael
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post! I wasn't expecting that, just giving my view to get it off my chest so someone other than my husband (and my dad) could hear it.
Sandra, I would be honored if you were to use my quote, and no, my mother doesn't even have a computer so I am happy to have you quote me. I actually met you at Good Vibrations and bought your Big Book of Unschooling (which I loved), however I didn't introduce myself! (I heard your kids speak too which just made me more sure of the path I was heading down...oh, and the coolest thing, Holly took a picture of my family at the beach day...we were so excited when we saw that because we had not brought our camera.)
I discovered unschooling in April of 2008, the day before my eldest sons 3rd B-Day. So, I have been working very much towards this path since then. I have read so many books, we have been to three conferences (soon to be four), which I find at this point to be very helpful, fun, and nurturing.
I came to realization that my mom would never accept me for who I was (just who I should be) a long time ago, although it didn't stop me back then from trying to please her...go figure that out!!! There are also many "ghosts" that I know she fights all time, so I just accept her for the way she is, and share with her how I perceive things to be. Some people are more open to change than others. I wish to make peace with myself in order to move forward, and that is me. She is only willing to look backwards and find the negative in everything. She may change though, and I am always hopeful, but I don't sit around waiting for it.
Selena, I hope everything goes better for you. That made me very sad reading your post. Thank you everyone for your warm welcome to the group, oh, and I will look into the other group mentioned as well.
Rachael
Sandra, I would be honored if you were to use my quote, and no, my mother doesn't even have a computer so I am happy to have you quote me. I actually met you at Good Vibrations and bought your Big Book of Unschooling (which I loved), however I didn't introduce myself! (I heard your kids speak too which just made me more sure of the path I was heading down...oh, and the coolest thing, Holly took a picture of my family at the beach day...we were so excited when we saw that because we had not brought our camera.)
I discovered unschooling in April of 2008, the day before my eldest sons 3rd B-Day. So, I have been working very much towards this path since then. I have read so many books, we have been to three conferences (soon to be four), which I find at this point to be very helpful, fun, and nurturing.
I came to realization that my mom would never accept me for who I was (just who I should be) a long time ago, although it didn't stop me back then from trying to please her...go figure that out!!! There are also many "ghosts" that I know she fights all time, so I just accept her for the way she is, and share with her how I perceive things to be. Some people are more open to change than others. I wish to make peace with myself in order to move forward, and that is me. She is only willing to look backwards and find the negative in everything. She may change though, and I am always hopeful, but I don't sit around waiting for it.
Selena, I hope everything goes better for you. That made me very sad reading your post. Thank you everyone for your warm welcome to the group, oh, and I will look into the other group mentioned as well.
Rachael