txldy2

I have been lurking for a few weeks and really enjoying the
conversations. ;-) Even though we are secure in our choice to
unschool and the changes we have made I felt the need to be a part of
a bigger unschooling community. This list seemed like the perfect way
to gather wisdom from other unschoolers.

I am currently trying to come to grips with some of my oldest
daughter's choices. She is a mature 16 yr old (17 in March) who holds
down a part-time job, takes a few classes at the community college
and is just a great teen who is passionate about a lot of things. She
is also convinced she is in love. This has not been a huge issue
because her boyfriend lives in Washington (we are in Texas)and they
only see each other every 5 or 6 months. Well .. . .he just turned 18
and is planning to move here. His father has used bribes (money and a
car) to convince him to take his GED and enroll in college. His
father is willing to help him financially as long as he is in school.
His mother is also willing to help with his living expenses. This man
(aahhh! he is a man now) has been in my daughters life for almost 2
years now and they have been discussing living together for the past
6 months or so.

Right now I am managing to remain calm while pointing out that we
will not offer any financial assistance if she chooses to move out.
The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell
her not to make a huge mistake, that there is plenty of time to take
on this kind of responsibility, etc. I was discussing my feelings
with a friend, who is also a list member, and she suggested I post
here and ask for advice.

Thanks in advance,

Dedra

Mary

From: "txldy2" <txldy2@...>

<< I am currently trying to come to grips with some of my oldest
daughter's choices. She is a mature 16 yr old (17 in March) who holds
down a part-time job, takes a few classes at the community college
and is just a great teen who is passionate about a lot of things. She
is also convinced she is in love. This has not been a huge issue
because her boyfriend lives in Washington (we are in Texas)and they
only see each other every 5 or 6 months. Well .. . .he just turned 18
and is planning to move here. His father has used bribes (money and a
car) to convince him to take his GED and enroll in college. His
father is willing to help him financially as long as he is in school.
His mother is also willing to help with his living expenses. This man
(aahhh! he is a man now) has been in my daughters life for almost 2
years now and they have been discussing living together for the past
6 months or so. >>



You sound like you are very happy with how your daughter is handling her
life in the beginning of the post. Somehow I don't get that feeling where
her boyfriend is concerned. It seems by saying *she's convinced* she's in
love, you don't believe that to be so. I also get the impression you don't
think much of her boyfriend. I could be wrong and reading things into your
post that you aren't feeling. Not sure.

Anyway, if your daughter is making great choices for her now, what makes you
think she will make choices that are disasters when it comes to her
boyfriend? It is possible that those two are meant to be together and will
live happily ever after. Maybe not probable, but possible. So support that
part of her life as you support all her other choices. She will need you in
the future to either share her happiness with her, or be there for her when
things don't go well. And if she does chose to move in with him, it will be
much easier sharing that experience with her instead of trying to talk her
out of it, maybe losing some trust you two have established along the way,
and even her doing something behind your back because you don't approve.

It's not always easy watching our older children make decisions that we may
know in our heart aren't right for them, but most likely, with our love and
support, they learn something from that experience whether it's a good one
or bad one. And most likely if that's the case, those kids are the kind that
need to learn it for themselves, not just by someone telling them.

Sometimes it takes a lot to keep our mouths shut, but it's worth the effort
when our children see us respect them and their wishes, no matter how much
we disagree. Telling her what you feel is fine, as long as you're not
telling her what you think she should do.

My daughter will soon be 18, I've been through what you are speaking of. It
wasn't easy for me to see her making decisions I considered far from the
best. But she still stayed the great kid she was while finding her way
through what she wanted. It took longer than what was comfortable for me
<bg> but she made wise choices along the way and worked her way through it.
And more importantly was how our relationship grew through it all. I can't
imagine how either one of us would have felt if she wasn't comfortable
sharing with me what she was going through.



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Kelly Lenhart

Plenty of kids go off to college at their age. Moving in with someone is,
yes, a big deal. But it's not like she just met the guy.

I wouldn't help her any less than I would if she were getting an apartment
with any roommate. Why? Because if withhold help, she's going to not only
know you don't approve (which I'm sure she's figured out) but feel that
because you don't back her on this, you don't back her on anything.

Then if she DOES have trouble, you've just put a big, fat, furry wall in
between you both.

I'm not saying you should trip over yourself to help her move. I'd be very
honest about the reasons I don't think it's a good idea. I'd even ask her
not to.

But I wouldn't cut her off.

Kelly
(who wonders what you think they'll do living together than she can't do
still technically living at home??)

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/25/04 4:04:26 PM, txldy2@... writes:

<< She is also convinced she is in love. >>

Why do you doubt that she is? I was at her age. Lots of people have been,
and it was real. Sometimes it never comes back as strong as then, and people
settle on people who were not the loves of their lives.

-=-Right now I am managing to remain calm while pointing out that we

will not offer any financial assistance if she chooses to move out. -=-

Would you if she were older?
What if his parents were in favor and willing to help support them? Is his
family's attitude informing yours?

-=-The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell

her not to make a huge mistake-=-

How can you be sure it's a huge mistake?

In literature, it's always the mean characters who utter the words "I shall
cut you off without a penny!" Maybe it's not a good choice to make.

Sandra

Jon and Rue Kream

>>She
is also convinced she is in love.

**When I met my husband 18 years ago he was 15 and I had just turned 17.
We got this attitude a lot. If she feels she's in love, she's in love.
Being in a serious relationship at that age is not easy. Having
supportive parents can make a big difference.

>>The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell
her not to make a huge mistake,

**It might not be a huge mistake. It might be the beginning of something
wonderful. If it does turn out to be a mistake it'd be better for her
to have you to turn to than to know that if she admits she made a
mistake she'll be proving you right. ~Rue




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wife2Vegman

--- txldy2 <txldy2@...> wrote:
>
> Right now I am managing to remain calm while
> pointing out that we
> will not offer any financial assistance if she
> chooses to move out.
> The voice in my head is screaming though and I
> really want to tell
> her not to make a huge mistake, that there is plenty
> of time to take
> on this kind of responsibility, etc.
>
> Dedra
>
>

Dedra,

You might be hyperventilating at this possibility. So
first off, breathe!!

I would like to suggest that instead of drawing a line
in the sand that should not be crossed about something
that has not yet occured, you should instead talk with
your daughter and really listen to her, even if you
think you have already done this.

Draw her out and talk with her about what she wants to
do. If you think of something she might not have
thought of, you might ask in this way, "Have you
thought about the possibility..." and then let her
answer.

Give her a chance to tell you her thoughts and dreams
and plans. Don't interrupt. Don't criticize or
control. Every time you feel like you can't breathe,
take a sip of your chai tea and inhale the steam from
the mug.

It sounds like she has made some great and mature
decisions about her life so far, holding down a job
and going to school, pursuing her interests.

She might have very mature, sensible plans and they
might surprise you. If she has definite goals for her
life, she may already have some ideas about how she
wants to reach them.

She is almost grown. You have one more year before
she is a legal adult. It sounds like she is
responsible and mature. Trust her a little bit more.

Lines in the sand can be erased with a big toe, a hug,
an apology. Talking together can help her solidify
her goals and the steps needed to get there, and help
her establish her own personal boundaries.



=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman

What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Elizabeth Roberts

Mary <mummy124@...> wrote:From: "txldy2" <txldy2@...>

<< I am currently trying to come to grips with some of my oldest
daughter's choices. She is a mature 16 yr old (17 in March) who holds
down a part-time job, takes a few classes at the community college
and is just a great teen who is passionate about a lot of things. She
is also convinced she is in love. This has not been a huge issue
because her boyfriend lives in Washington (we are in Texas)and they
only see each other every 5 or 6 months. Well .. . .he just turned 18
and is planning to move here. His father has used bribes (money and a
car) to convince him to take his GED and enroll in college. His
father is willing to help him financially as long as he is in school.
His mother is also willing to help with his living expenses. This man
(aahhh! he is a man now) has been in my daughters life for almost 2
years now and they have been discussing living together for the past
6 months or so. >>



You sound like you are very happy with how your daughter is handling her
life in the beginning of the post. Somehow I don't get that feeling where
her boyfriend is concerned. It seems by saying *she's convinced* she's in
love, you don't believe that to be so. I also get the impression you don't
think much of her boyfriend. I could be wrong and reading things into your
post that you aren't feeling. Not sure.

Anyway, if your daughter is making great choices for her now, what makes you
think she will make choices that are disasters when it comes to her
boyfriend? It is possible that those two are meant to be together and will
live happily ever after. Maybe not probable, but possible. So support that
part of her life as you support all her other choices. She will need you in
the future to either share her happiness with her, or be there for her when
things don't go well. And if she does chose to move in with him, it will be
much easier sharing that experience with her instead of trying to talk her
out of it, maybe losing some trust you two have established along the way,
and even her doing something behind your back because you don't approve.

It's not always easy watching our older children make decisions that we may
know in our heart aren't right for them, but most likely, with our love and
support, they learn something from that experience whether it's a good one
or bad one. And most likely if that's the case, those kids are the kind that
need to learn it for themselves, not just by someone telling them.

Sometimes it takes a lot to keep our mouths shut, but it's worth the effort
when our children see us respect them and their wishes, no matter how much
we disagree. Telling her what you feel is fine, as long as you're not
telling her what you think she should do.

My daughter will soon be 18, I've been through what you are speaking of. It
wasn't easy for me to see her making decisions I considered far from the
best. But she still stayed the great kid she was while finding her way
through what she wanted. It took longer than what was comfortable for me
<bg> but she made wise choices along the way and worked her way through it.
And more importantly was how our relationship grew through it all. I can't
imagine how either one of us would have felt if she wasn't comfortable
sharing with me what she was going through.



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com




"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com



---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.






---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eaglefalconlark

I assume her age is mostly the issue? I mean, would you be this
worried that it would be a "huge mistake" if everything else about
the situation were the same except for her age? Do you think it
would be a mistake at this age even if this guy was just wonderful
for her and they were really in love? Why is it bad to get into a
serious relationship at that age? Whatever issues are you concerned
about that you believe are specific to her age?

Not trying to be combative :), I'm just thinking that answering some
of these questions might help clarify the situation for you a little
bit.

In some cultures a sixteen-year-old is considered an adult,
biologically and socially, with complete ability to survive
independently in his/her society. Our society, through our school
system, on the other hand, artificially extends childhood, so that
unschooled children are more likely to have that survival ability
earlier than their schooled counterparts. Perhaps she is as "ready"
(whatever that means) now as some people are when they are much
older.

Linda








--- In [email protected], "txldy2" <txldy2@y...>
wrote:
> I have been lurking for a few weeks and really enjoying the
> conversations. ;-) Even though we are secure in our choice to
> unschool and the changes we have made I felt the need to be a part
of
> a bigger unschooling community. This list seemed like the perfect
way
> to gather wisdom from other unschoolers.
>
> I am currently trying to come to grips with some of my oldest
> daughter's choices. She is a mature 16 yr old (17 in March) who
holds
> down a part-time job, takes a few classes at the community college
> and is just a great teen who is passionate about a lot of things.
She
> is also convinced she is in love. This has not been a huge issue
> because her boyfriend lives in Washington (we are in Texas)and
they
> only see each other every 5 or 6 months. Well .. . .he just turned
18
> and is planning to move here. His father has used bribes (money
and a
> car) to convince him to take his GED and enroll in college. His
> father is willing to help him financially as long as he is in
school.
> His mother is also willing to help with his living expenses. This
man
> (aahhh! he is a man now) has been in my daughters life for almost
2
> years now and they have been discussing living together for the
past
> 6 months or so.
>
> Right now I am managing to remain calm while pointing out that we
> will not offer any financial assistance if she chooses to move
out.
> The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell
> her not to make a huge mistake, that there is plenty of time to
take
> on this kind of responsibility, etc. I was discussing my feelings
> with a friend, who is also a list member, and she suggested I post
> here and ask for advice.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Dedra

melissa4123

--- In [email protected], "txldy2" <txldy2@y...>
wrote:

<<The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell
her not to make a huge mistake
Thanks in advance,
Dedra>>

From someone who actually DID make a huge mistake and moved in with
a man (I use the term loosely) when I was 19, let me tell you the
one thing that made me actually admit my mistake and leave (although
it took 4 years). I too was a mature 16 and 17 year old who had
made very sound decisions up until that point.

My family never once judged me or told me what a HUGE mistake I was
making. They supported me every step of the way. If I needed money
(I actually only asked for money once in 4 years), it was given
without 1000 questions as to why and what I was going to do with
it. They were always kind to my boyfriend and included him in every
family event, never once (at least not to me or him) complaining or
criticizing.

When I finally wised up and really looked at what kind of man I was
living with, I went to my grandmother (my mother had passed away)
and asked her if I could move in for a while until I could get back
on my feet. She gave me a hug and cried with me because it hadn't
worked out. BUT, the one thing that she didn't do was say "I told
you so." None of my family did (although I'm sure it killed them
not to). At least not until many years had gone by and even I could
laugh about what an idiot I was back then.

So....as hard as it may be, please don't cut your daughter off. She
just may need your help (emotionally or financially) and, if you
have told her not to call you (with words or with actions).....who
knows what might happen. If she feels that you support her, and she
feels that she really has made a huge mistake, at least she will
come to you for help when (or if) she needs it.

Melissa

P.S. Everyone, please remind me of these words if my DD starts down
the same road I have already been down. I just hope that I am
strong enough to really support her when she needs it the most.

crazeemom77043

--- In [email protected], "melissa4123"
<melissa4123@y...> wrote:
> So....as hard as it may be, please don't cut your daughter off.
She
> just may need your help (emotionally or financially) and, if you
> have told her not to call you (with words or with actions).....who
> knows what might happen. If she feels that you support her, and
she
> feels that she really has made a huge mistake, at least she will
> come to you for help when (or if) she needs it.


I didn't read her post to be saying that she was threatening to *cut
her daughter off,* to withdraw emotionally, or to (heaven forfend)
not even be in touch with her. Far from it. I read this as a plea
from someone who is very concerned and is coming from a position of
support for a daughter whom she loves very much.

Laura B.

pam sorooshian

On Jan 25, 2004, at 6:12 PM, Jon and Rue Kream wrote:

> **When I met my husband 18 years ago he was 15 and I had just turned
> 17.
> We got this attitude a lot. If she feels she's in love, she's in love.
> Being in a serious relationship at that age is not easy. Having
> supportive parents can make a big difference.

My sister is married to the guy she was in love with when she was 13
years old. They waited until she turned 18 to date - he is 8 years
older than she is and dating an under-18 yo would not have been cool,
so they were just friends and she was considered just a little kid with
a sort of obvious crush on an older guy....cute. On her 18th birthday
he asked her out on a real date and they got married pretty soon after
that. Waited a long time to have kids. They are now 45 and 53 and have
a 17 yo daughter and a 9 yo son.

My 19 yo is in love, too. Her boyfriend (also an unschooler) lives in
Wisconsin and we live in Southern California. They met here, at an
unschooling get-together. He came and spent a week or two with us, then
she went there for a week, and then she went back and spent 3 months,
came home for a few months and went back for a week or two. He'll be
here for a week in March. At the end of the summer, she's planning to
go back there and a group of unschooled teen/young adults have plans to
rent a house together. She plans to stay there for a year and then both
of them are coming back here so she can go to a state university.

I don't think I'd be surprised at all for this to work out or for this
to be a permanent relationship. Why not? These kids have a tendency to
be serious and passionate and devoted TO their passions.

Maybe 16 almost 17 seems really different than 19. But, the principles
are the same.

Read "Parent-Teen Breakthrough: A Relationship Approach," PLEASE!!!!!!!
You'll find it to be a very new and different point of view on raising
teens. I cannot recommend this book highly enough!!!

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Dawn Adams

Dedra writes:
>The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to tell
>her not to make a huge mistake, that there is plenty of time to take
>on this kind of responsibility, etc
>
What if this is a huge mistake? What if she moves in and it's a disaster? Well, If you've been open to the idea, helped her how you could, trusted her decision...You'll be the first person she'll come to for help which is what you'd want, eh? And sure there's plenty of time to take on this kind of responsibility but again, if it's a mistake, wouldn't it be great if she could learn that at 16 and get on with her life?

Dawn (in NS)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

tjreynoso

> From someone who actually DID make a huge mistake and moved in
with
> a man (I use the term loosely) when I was 19, let me tell you the
> one thing that made me actually admit my mistake and leave
(although
> it took 4 years). I too was a mature 16 and 17 year old who had
> made very sound decisions up until that point.
>
> My family never once judged me or told me what a HUGE mistake I
was
> making. They supported me every step of the way. If I needed
money
> (I actually only asked for money once in 4 years), it was given
> without 1000 questions as to why and what I was going to do with
> it. They were always kind to my boyfriend and included him in
every
> family event, never once (at least not to me or him) complaining
or
> criticizing.
>
> When I finally wised up and really looked at what kind of man I
was
> living with, I went to my grandmother (my mother had passed away)
> and asked her if I could move in for a while until I could get
back
> on my feet. She gave me a hug and cried with me because it hadn't
> worked out. BUT, the one thing that she didn't do was say "I told
> you so." None of my family did (although I'm sure it killed them
> not to). At least not until many years had gone by and even I
could
> laugh about what an idiot I was back then.
>
> So....as hard as it may be, please don't cut your daughter off.
She
> just may need your help (emotionally or financially) and, if you
> have told her not to call you (with words or with actions).....who
> knows what might happen. If she feels that you support her, and
she
> feels that she really has made a huge mistake, at least she will
> come to you for help when (or if) she needs it.
>
> Melissa


I agree with Melissa. I did the same thing. At 17 I got into a
serious relationship and moved in with someone that hadn't finished
growing up yet. Even though I knew my mother didn't agree she never
threw it in my face or cut me off. When I finally came back, it was
happily. I kind of kicked myself for "wasting" five years but it
was a learning experience. I am very grateful that my mother didn't
throw it in my face or hold it against me. She was just happy to
have me back. It's hard to let your children go but if you cut her
off she really won't come back, even if she wanted to. One thing I
do suggest is that you sit down with her and explain your fears. Not
in a judgmental way, but from a human perspective. Let her know
that aside from worrying for her as a mother, you have your own
fears as a person. Show her that you are just as frail as she is.
Sometimes parents approach things from the "parent with authority"
position and it tends to separate you even further from your
children. If your daughter is as thoughtful as she sounds I'm sure
she would appreciate your concerns and fears presented as a friend
worrying about another friend. It'll let her know that you are not
made of stone or pretending to have all of the answers. She may
surprise you with her own strenth and you will have made a friend.

Tanya

txldy2

>
> You sound like you are very happy with how your daughter is
handling her
> life in the beginning of the post. Somehow I don't get that feeling
where
> her boyfriend is concerned. It seems by saying *she's convinced*
she's in
> love, you don't believe that to be so. I also get the impression
you don't
> think much of her boyfriend. I could be wrong and reading things
into your
> post that you aren't feeling. Not sure.

I have had difficulty with her choice of a boyfriend. I have welcomed
him into my home 3 times over the last 18 months and some of his
comments/stories concern me. His parents divorced when he was young
and seem to have spent the following years trying to buy his
affection. From what I have been able to piece together he was left
alone a lot at an early age. Once the relationship with my daughter
started his father began to use trips to Texas and a cell phone to
try and force his son to "get his act together". His father sent me
an e-mail which made it clear my daughter had become the carrot he
had decide to dangle in front of his son. Because he didn't have any
parental involvement growing up he spent a lot of his early teen
years as a vandal and a bully. The racial slurs that flew out of his
mouth during his first visit scared the crap out of me. After saying
all of that I do have to admit that he treats my daughter wonderfully
and once I set down the rules here he followed them to the best of
his ability.
>
> Anyway, if your daughter is making great choices for her now, what
makes you
> think she will make choices that are disasters when it comes to her
> boyfriend? It is possible that those two are meant to be together
and will
> live happily ever after. Maybe not probable, but possible. So
support that
> part of her life as you support all her other choices. She will
need you in
> the future to either share her happiness with her, or be there for
her when
> things don't go well. And if she does chose to move in with him, it
will be
> much easier sharing that experience with her instead of trying to
talk her
> out of it, maybe losing some trust you two have established along
the way,
> and even her doing something behind your back because you don't
approve.

I haven't tried to talk her out of the move. I have encouraged her to
check the rent prices in the area. We have also discussed how
difficult it is to find a job right now. I probably have been very
lackluster in my efforts to "share her happiness". Thanks for
reminding me that I need to work on that.
>
> Sometimes it takes a lot to keep our mouths shut, but it's worth
the effort
> when our children see us respect them and their wishes, no matter
how much
> we disagree. Telling her what you feel is fine, as long as you're
not
> telling her what you think she should do.
>
> My daughter will soon be 18, I've been through what you are
speaking of. It
> wasn't easy for me to see her making decisions I considered far
from the
> best. But she still stayed the great kid she was while finding her
way
> through what she wanted. It took longer than what was comfortable
for me
> <bg> but she made wise choices along the way and worked her way
through it.
> And more importantly was how our relationship grew through it all.
I can't
> imagine how either one of us would have felt if she wasn't
comfortable
> sharing with me what she was going through.

Thank you! I really appreciate your perspective and I am going to
make more of an effort to be supportive and keep the "but what about
this?" questions to myself.
Dedra
>

txldy2

> -=-Right now I am managing to remain calm while pointing out that
we
>
> will not offer any financial assistance if she chooses to move
out. -=-
>
> Would you if she were older?
> What if his parents were in favor and willing to help support
them? Is his
> family's attitude informing yours?

In my effort to make my post brief I left a few details out. We
didn't tell her we would *cut her off* if she moved out. We have
always told our children that financialy we are prepared to support
them as long as they feel the need to live at home. If they are
attending college we will also pay for their tuition. Our budget
could not possibly stretch to helping any of them pay for their own
apartment. His parents seem to be prepared to pay at least some of
the bills when he moves here. Even if I wanted to help fund this
there is no way our budget would allow that.
>
> -=-The voice in my head is screaming though and I really want to
tell
>
> her not to make a huge mistake-=-
>
> How can you be sure it's a huge mistake?
>
> In literature, it's always the mean characters who utter the
words "I shall
> cut you off without a penny!" Maybe it's not a good choice to
make.

I hope I have explained this clearly. We would of course help her in
an emergency if we could.

Btw I didn't respond to your question about why I doubt that she is
in love. I need to give this some more thought. When I went back and
read my post I didn't remember adding *considers* to the sentence
though I do remember changing that one sentence several times. hmmm
Maybe some of my own baggage is coloring this and I need to come to
grips with why I doubt her feelings.

Dedra

txldy2

>
> **When I met my husband 18 years ago he was 15 and I had just
turned 17.
> We got this attitude a lot. If she feels she's in love, she's in
love.
> Being in a serious relationship at that age is not easy. Having
> supportive parents can make a big difference.
>
> **It might not be a huge mistake. It might be the beginning of
something
> wonderful. If it does turn out to be a mistake it'd be better for
her
> to have you to turn to than to know that if she admits she made a
> mistake she'll be proving you right.

Thank you Rue,
These are all good points. I married at 19 and have been married for
20 years so I don't doubt that first loves can last. I think it is
just hard seeing my daughter begin a journey that I know will be
difficult at an even younger age. I remember those early years and
digging change out of the sofa for a trip to Taco Bell.

Dedra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

txldy2

>
> She is almost grown. You have one more year before
> she is a legal adult. It sounds like she is
> responsible and mature. Trust her a little bit more.
>
> Lines in the sand can be erased with a big toe, a hug,
> an apology. Talking together can help her solidify
> her goals and the steps needed to get there, and help
> her establish her own personal boundaries.

Thank you Susan,
I appreciate your calm reply. I haven't drawn any lines in the sand
yet but I could feel myself wanting to. I think we do need to do some
more talking before her boyfriend arrives. I will try to listen more
than talk.

Dedra

[email protected]

-=-I didn't read her post to be saying that she was threatening to *cut

her daughter off,*-=-

Quote from the original:
-=-we will not offer any financial assistance if she chooses to move out. -=-

"You'll be on your own" used as a threat is directly saying "we will cut you
off."

If a daughter goes anyway, it's not unreasonable to expect that the parents'
anger or the child's resentment will cause a rift.

And the point made that the only way she can come home is in shame and
failure is valid. It's another kind of cutting off. It's the burning of bridges
and safe havens.

<< I read this as a plea

from someone who is very concerned and is coming from a position of

support for a daughter whom she loves very much.>>

It seemed a request for us to help someone control her daughter.
It seems a call for any magical advice we could give to help the mom convince
the daughter that she is NOT "in love" or to help her see that she wants
parental financial support more than she wants what she thinks and claims she
wants (to live with her boyfriend).

Sandra

txldy2

>
> So....as hard as it may be, please don't cut your daughter off.
She
> just may need your help (emotionally or financially) and, if you
> have told her not to call you (with words or with actions).....who
> knows what might happen. If she feels that you support her, and
she
> feels that she really has made a huge mistake, at least she will
> come to you for help when (or if) she needs it.

Thanks for a view from the teens prospective. I probably needed that
the most. I would never cut her off emotionally and would offer
financial support if she had an emergency. Most of the areas she has
talked about wanting to live in are within 30 minutes of our home so
that is comforting at least. I am going to save your post and re-read
it when I feel myself wanting to be less than supportive.

Dedra
>

txldy2

> I assume her age is mostly the issue? I mean, would you be this
> worried that it would be a "huge mistake" if everything else about
> the situation were the same except for her age? Do you think it
> would be a mistake at this age even if this guy was just wonderful
> for her and they were really in love? Why is it bad to get into a
> serious relationship at that age? Whatever issues are you concerned
> about that you believe are specific to her age?
>
> Not trying to be combative :), I'm just thinking that answering
some
> of these questions might help clarify the situation for you a
little
> bit.
>
> In some cultures a sixteen-year-old is considered an adult,
> biologically and socially, with complete ability to survive
> independently in his/her society. Our society, through our school
> system, on the other hand, artificially extends childhood, so that
> unschooled children are more likely to have that survival ability
> earlier than their schooled counterparts. Perhaps she is as "ready"
> (whatever that means) now as some people are when they are much
> older.

All good points to think about. Part of the problem could be that it
just seems too early to have her leave home. Maybe it is too early
for me rather than for her? I think there are more questions I should
be asking myself.

Dedra
>

tjreynoso

I remember those early years and
> digging change out of the sofa for a trip to Taco Bell.
>
> Dedra


Yeah, but didn't that Taco taste great!!! I remember digging a
dollar out of the sofa to get bus fare for work!

You can't shelter her from the world. The only thing you can do is
hold up your end of the bargain. Be there when she needs you.
She'll hold up her end, to explore the world.

Is there any way that you can get to know the boyfriend better
before she makes her move?

Tanya

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], Wife2Vegman
> --- txldy2 <txldy2@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Right now I am managing to remain calm while
> > pointing out that we
> > will not offer any financial assistance if she
> > chooses to move out.
> > The voice in my head is screaming though and I
> > really want to tell
> > her not to make a huge mistake, that there is plenty
> > of time to take
> > on this kind of responsibility, etc.
> >
> > Dedra

Quick book recommendation for your daughter:

Girlosophy 2 by Anthea Paul (Be sure to get 2 since it deals with love and romantic
relationships)

She empowers young women/teens to make decisions about love, living together, sex
etc. I love the non-judgmental sensible approach she has. The book is gorgeous to
look at and hold (it's not a text drvien book, but is almost entirely visual with an look
of India about it).

My daughter told me she likes it because the realistic possiblities are laid and out but
the chices are left to the girl. And even mistakes are treated as stepping stones to
empowerment rather than highlighted as regrets to suffer over.

One of the hardest lessons for me this last year was learning to trust my daughter's
relationships and judgment about her friends, boys etc. It's not that I feel better
because things turned out well. It's that I learned through the process that this really
is her life and she really is choosing it. So I decided I wanted to be an ally not an
obstacle.

Julie B

pam sorooshian

On Jan 26, 2004, at 5:58 AM, txldy2 wrote:

> Thank you! I really appreciate your perspective and I am going to
> make more of an effort to be supportive and keep the "but what about
> this?" questions to myself.

Read "Parent-Teen Breakthrough: A Relationship Approach." It'll REALLY
help you keep your priorities in order and have perspective during this
difficult time. I have a similar situation with my oldest daughter - us
in CA, boyfriend in Wisconsin, lots of travel, and plans to move in
together there or here, etc. I must say that the boyfriend is fine -
also unschooled his whole life - and seems to be very thoughtful and
peaceful and kind.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

pam sorooshian

On Jan 26, 2004, at 6:37 AM, txldy2 wrote:

> Part of the problem could be that it
> just seems too early to have her leave home. Maybe it is too early
> for me rather than for her? I think there are more questions I should
> be asking myself.

Don't think of it as permanent - you'll never know when it really is
and you'll especially want it clear in this case that its still her
home and that she can wander in and out as needed.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

txldy2

>
> Quick book recommendation for your daughter:
>
> Girlosophy 2 by Anthea Paul (Be sure to get 2 since it deals with
love and romantic
> relationships)

Thank you, I will look into this for both my teen daughters.


So I decided I wanted to be an ally not an
> obstacle.

I have tried very hard to keep this situation in perspective and
trust her instincts. I think that reading a few of the posts will
help me remember that it is her life and I am just here for support.

Dedra

txldy2

> << I read this as a plea
>
> from someone who is very concerned and is coming from a position of
>
> support for a daughter whom she loves very much.>>
>
> It seemed a request for us to help someone control her daughter.
> It seems a call for any magical advice we could give to help the
mom convince
> the daughter that she is NOT "in love" or to help her see that she
wants
> parental financial support more than she wants what she thinks and
claims she
> wants (to live with her boyfriend).

This was not a request for help me control my daughter. It was a
request to help with my response to the current turn of events. If I
wanted advice on how to control any of my children I wouldn't ask for
it on an unschooling list. ;-) I hope that I have explained the part
about not offering financial support. We simply do not have the
resources to help her pay rent, etc. in order for her to live with
her boyfriend. This would be the case if she wanted to move in with a
roommate or go to college in another state. My daughter wants to be a
Vet. and we have talked about the fact that she will need to help
fund this dream. We can afford tuition *in district* while she lives
at home. We can not afford out of state tuition without a commitment
on her part to help with the expense. This is just a fact of life and
one we have discussed. The same way I discussed that we couldn't help
them "financially" if they got their own apartment. I would not cut
her off as far as her tuition though she has already pointed out that
she would have no problem getting financial aid if she were living on
her own.

Dedra

eaglefalconlark

--- In [email protected], "txldy2" <txldy2@y...>
wrote:
> Part of the problem could be that it
> just seems too early to have her leave home. Maybe it is too early
> for me rather than for her? I think there are more questions I
> should be asking myself.

Yes. I mean, you will miss her, but also, you will be mourning the
loss of a child, in a way, because romance and sex and "being in a
relationship" are things that signal a transition from childhood to
adulthood, and the switch from the parent-child relationship being
primary to your daughter to the relationship with her lover being
primary. You're not ready to make that switch, maybe, but it sounds
like she is (and maybe already has in her heart.)

Linda

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/26/2004 2:48:46 PM Central Standard Time,
eaglefalconlark@... writes:


> Yes. I mean, you will miss her, but also, you will be mourning the
> loss of a child, in a way, because romance and sex and "being in a
> relationship" are things that signal a transition from childhood to
> adulthood, and the switch from the parent-child relationship being
> primary to your daughter to the relationship with her lover being
> primary. You're not ready to make that switch, maybe, but it sounds
> like she is (and maybe already has in her heart.)
>
>

Is this not also part of our cultural conditioning, keeping young people
children maybe much longer than they need to be? John Taylor Gatto address' this
in his talk "The Paradox of Extended Childhood".
Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Jan 26, 2004, at 12:34 PM, txldy2 wrote:

> The same way I discussed that we couldn't help
> them "financially" if they got their own apartment. I would not cut
> her off as far as her tuition though she has already pointed out that
> she would have no problem getting financial aid if she were living on
> her own.
>

You may want to get the facts and help her correct that misperception.
Parents income and assets counts even if kids live away from home and
are financially independent.

There are details - but that's the gist.

-pam

National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

arcarpenter2003

--- In [email protected], "txldy2" <txldy2@y...>
wrote:
>she has already pointed out that
> she would have no problem getting financial aid if she were living
on
> her own.

Check on that -- when I did similar thing 17 years ago or so, I ended
up not qualifying for a couple of years, until my tax forms showed me
as an independent for two (or three?) consecutive years. If you are
currently claiming her as dependent, and if the rules for federal aid
are the same, she may run into the same situation. Have her get a
copy of the FFA from any college admissions office, and look
carefully at that requirement.

Since I posted this, I'll share just a bit of my experience. I moved
in with a guy when I was 19, in part because my mom had 1. taken away
my college money and 2. made such a big issue of me seeing him
seriously -- those actions nearly destroyed our mother/daughter
relationship, and when I needed help and a place to live, I could not
make myself turn to her. In one sense, she was right -- he was an
awful fit for me, and 5 years later I could admit that and move on.
But I learned a lot along the way, and much of that I wouldn't trade
for a more normal college experience. My mom and I are reconciled
and quite close now, but that history is forever a part of our
relationship.

So my point is this: even if it's not a love that will last for her
lifetime, it is certainly something she can learn from. She will
come out on the other side; she will be okay. She will be even more
okay if she still has her mom on her side. I can see by your posts
that you are realizing this.

Peace,
Amy