need other perspective :-(
Elizabeth Roberts
I'm having a very difficult time with Sarah lately...I know that I have tended to ask alot of her because she's so much older than the Littles. I've done my best to back off since last November when we started unschooling completely. We've always asked that the kids help out with things as they are able to, so that wasn't really needing to be changed. If they say no, for the most part it's not a big deal. However, if Paul is on duty, then Sarah especially needs to help me more...what needed to change there was for me to stop asking for "help" all the time with things I could really do myself. I've done rather well with that...but when I ask her help she will NOT listen, and will do anything BUT what I've asked her to do. I've explained over and over that this is NOT being helpful to me at all.
For example, this past week Megan and Logan have both been very sick. Paul is on duty this week (he'll be home tomorrow thankfully!!) At the start of the week, when Paul went on duty I explained to Sarah that I was going to need her help with alot more things, because I'd need to give so much attention to the Littles because they are so sick.
I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle." (Logan is throwing up right then and I'm trying to help him..this is what was just going on a few minutes ago) Instead of sitting and holding Gracie and feeding her, Sarah's up walking around with her! Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her "Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off, which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit and feed her PLEASE!" (Yes, at this point, while Logan is throwing up and I'm trying to keep him calm and keep vomit from getting on the floor...I'm getting angry at her).
I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE wants to do like that isn't helping me.
I'm thinking maybe I need to change my perspective on this..but I'm not sure how! Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking her for help of any kind? How do I handle things when there really is no other way for her to be helpful other than doing something very specific like feeding Gracie while I'm helping Logan while he's throwing up?
SIGH...I know there has got to be a better way than butting heads over "helping."
MamaBeth
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For example, this past week Megan and Logan have both been very sick. Paul is on duty this week (he'll be home tomorrow thankfully!!) At the start of the week, when Paul went on duty I explained to Sarah that I was going to need her help with alot more things, because I'd need to give so much attention to the Littles because they are so sick.
I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle." (Logan is throwing up right then and I'm trying to help him..this is what was just going on a few minutes ago) Instead of sitting and holding Gracie and feeding her, Sarah's up walking around with her! Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her "Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off, which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit and feed her PLEASE!" (Yes, at this point, while Logan is throwing up and I'm trying to keep him calm and keep vomit from getting on the floor...I'm getting angry at her).
I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE wants to do like that isn't helping me.
I'm thinking maybe I need to change my perspective on this..but I'm not sure how! Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking her for help of any kind? How do I handle things when there really is no other way for her to be helpful other than doing something very specific like feeding Gracie while I'm helping Logan while he's throwing up?
SIGH...I know there has got to be a better way than butting heads over "helping."
MamaBeth
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**SIGH...I know there has got to be a better way than butting heads over
"helping."
**
I have this wild-assed idea that maybe she's practicing "saying no" and
"setting boundaries" based on watching you start to do it with your
neighbor and friend. Um... she's learning she doesn't HAVE to be a
"people pleaser", and that's a good thing in many ways. (Albeit a pain
for you right now.)
Different idea: read some of the sections in parenting books or women's
magazines about some of the issues when wives want husbands to help
around the house. The parallel is that in that case, as with your
daughter, the helper wants to use his or her judgement and the
mother/wife wants to specify exactly what should be done. Men hate
that, I hear, so maybe kids hate it too. (Yes, you were right about the
baby needed to be fed, but many people don't like to be instructed on
how to interact with a baby. It makes sense that husbands and older
children eventually do need to learn to read the baby's cues and needs
by reading the signals themselves. Your daughter's intentions in this
case could have been really good.
(Obviously I don't know the details of other bursts of uncooperativeness
and why she isn't pitching in, so my ideas about her motives are really
really only loosely based in fact <g>.)
I know this may sound smug, and I'm sorry for "Monday morning
quarterbacking you". Mothering is really a tough gig when dad is away.
I really respect how much work it is.
Betsy
PS OK, one more:
**I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is
hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle."**
This doesn't sound like "asking", it sounds like "telling". I think
it's important to be clear about the difference.
"helping."
**
I have this wild-assed idea that maybe she's practicing "saying no" and
"setting boundaries" based on watching you start to do it with your
neighbor and friend. Um... she's learning she doesn't HAVE to be a
"people pleaser", and that's a good thing in many ways. (Albeit a pain
for you right now.)
Different idea: read some of the sections in parenting books or women's
magazines about some of the issues when wives want husbands to help
around the house. The parallel is that in that case, as with your
daughter, the helper wants to use his or her judgement and the
mother/wife wants to specify exactly what should be done. Men hate
that, I hear, so maybe kids hate it too. (Yes, you were right about the
baby needed to be fed, but many people don't like to be instructed on
how to interact with a baby. It makes sense that husbands and older
children eventually do need to learn to read the baby's cues and needs
by reading the signals themselves. Your daughter's intentions in this
case could have been really good.
(Obviously I don't know the details of other bursts of uncooperativeness
and why she isn't pitching in, so my ideas about her motives are really
really only loosely based in fact <g>.)
I know this may sound smug, and I'm sorry for "Monday morning
quarterbacking you". Mothering is really a tough gig when dad is away.
I really respect how much work it is.
Betsy
PS OK, one more:
**I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is
hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle."**
This doesn't sound like "asking", it sounds like "telling". I think
it's important to be clear about the difference.
Fetteroll
on 1/18/04 11:27 PM, Elizabeth Roberts at mamabethuscg@... wrote:
Well, you'd figure something out because it was a necessity!
What I'm seeing in your interactions is Sarah trying to do something to help
and what you want is conscripted labor.
Or another way of looking at it is that you're trying to split yourself in
two and have Sarah act as your clone and do everything you would do if you
could be two people.
So I think you have to let go of the control. If Sarah wasn't there, the
baby would cry while you helped Logan or Logan would throw up on his own or
you'd hold the baby the best you could while helping your son.
Ask her for whatever help she can give, offer some suggestions and then let
go. You could say, "Would you mind doing something with the baby? Maybe you
could try giving her a bottle, since that sounds like her hungry cry to me,"
then let go of control. (That'll be the hard part!) And when the crisis is
over say "Thanks every so much!"
I think you're thinking in the moment. You want the right kind of help right
now. But that type of reaction makes withdrawals from the relationship that
you pay for in the future: a child who is less willing to help because she
feels that what she can do is unappreciated.
Maybe by this age she should be feeling compassion and wanting to jump in to
help, but she's been set back because she feels what she can do isn't wanted
or appreciated. Or maybe she's still in the development phase of not being
able to see with compassion. All she sees is a mom whose taken on more kids
than she can handle and is dumping the excess on her.
Maybe it would help to reread what you wrote and substitute yourself in for
Sarah and your husband in for yourself. Imagine that he's doing something
that seems totally ridiculous to you, like juggling flaming torches and
wants you to handle one set in a particular way while he handles the ones
that are giving him trouble. That's quite likely the way she sees it until
she can get to the point where she knows whatever help she can do will be
appreciated.
Joyce
> At the start of the week, when Paul went on duty I explained to Sarah that IWhat would you do if Sarah wasn't around?
> was going to need her help with alot more things, because I'd need to give so
> much attention to the Littles because they are so sick.
Well, you'd figure something out because it was a necessity!
What I'm seeing in your interactions is Sarah trying to do something to help
and what you want is conscripted labor.
Or another way of looking at it is that you're trying to split yourself in
two and have Sarah act as your clone and do everything you would do if you
could be two people.
So I think you have to let go of the control. If Sarah wasn't there, the
baby would cry while you helped Logan or Logan would throw up on his own or
you'd hold the baby the best you could while helping your son.
Ask her for whatever help she can give, offer some suggestions and then let
go. You could say, "Would you mind doing something with the baby? Maybe you
could try giving her a bottle, since that sounds like her hungry cry to me,"
then let go of control. (That'll be the hard part!) And when the crisis is
over say "Thanks every so much!"
I think you're thinking in the moment. You want the right kind of help right
now. But that type of reaction makes withdrawals from the relationship that
you pay for in the future: a child who is less willing to help because she
feels that what she can do is unappreciated.
Maybe by this age she should be feeling compassion and wanting to jump in to
help, but she's been set back because she feels what she can do isn't wanted
or appreciated. Or maybe she's still in the development phase of not being
able to see with compassion. All she sees is a mom whose taken on more kids
than she can handle and is dumping the excess on her.
Maybe it would help to reread what you wrote and substitute yourself in for
Sarah and your husband in for yourself. Imagine that he's doing something
that seems totally ridiculous to you, like juggling flaming torches and
wants you to handle one set in a particular way while he handles the ones
that are giving him trouble. That's quite likely the way she sees it until
she can get to the point where she knows whatever help she can do will be
appreciated.
Joyce
Lyle W.
Asking for help is fine, if you are TRULY asking. But EXPECTING help is altogether different. It sounds like you told her to help, and then got upset at how she was helping. That may not make helping sound very desirable to her. It wouldn't me either.
You were upset because she didn't know the baby's hungry cry. Did you know that cry from square one? Maybe you did since you're the mom, but your daughter may not. Your daughter may need to be given the chance to recognize the differences in the baby's signals, just like anyone else would. And the baby may have gotten used to being walked around while sis is feeding her if you had given her the chance. It may not be the way YOU do it, but for some reason, your daughter thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Maybe she would have changed her mind and sat down eventually, or maybe the baby would have calmed down and gotten used to being carried, but you didn't give either of them the chance to adjust. You got upset. You made demands of your helper to do things your way.
I understand that this all happened in the heat of the moment, and I'm not saying that any of it is easy. It's not. Sometimes it's impossibly hard, I know. But it all comes down to choices, and instead of giving your daughter choices, you gave demands. Even a sugar coated demand is still a demand.
My universal rule when asking for help is: Be nice to the helper.
:)
Lyle
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You were upset because she didn't know the baby's hungry cry. Did you know that cry from square one? Maybe you did since you're the mom, but your daughter may not. Your daughter may need to be given the chance to recognize the differences in the baby's signals, just like anyone else would. And the baby may have gotten used to being walked around while sis is feeding her if you had given her the chance. It may not be the way YOU do it, but for some reason, your daughter thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Maybe she would have changed her mind and sat down eventually, or maybe the baby would have calmed down and gotten used to being carried, but you didn't give either of them the chance to adjust. You got upset. You made demands of your helper to do things your way.
I understand that this all happened in the heat of the moment, and I'm not saying that any of it is easy. It's not. Sometimes it's impossibly hard, I know. But it all comes down to choices, and instead of giving your daughter choices, you gave demands. Even a sugar coated demand is still a demand.
My universal rule when asking for help is: Be nice to the helper.
:)
Lyle
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Marjorie Kirk
For those of you who were recently discussing lifestyle changes, here's a
great link about growing food year round, in Maine!
http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/default.html
Marjorie
great link about growing food year round, in Maine!
http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/default.html
Marjorie
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 9:29:23 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
-=-Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her
"Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she
wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off,
which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit
and feed her PLEASE!" -=-
--------------
So two people were screaming?
-=-I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past
couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE
wants to do like that isn't helping me. -=-
Then what you're doing/saying isn't likely to "get it through her head." It
might not be the fault of her or her head.
If kids are too controlled they rebel against it. That's the principle
behind all of this unschooling business. If you tell them what theyhave to
read/write/add and when and how, that becomes what they don't want to do. They
resent reading/writing/adding and they come to resent the person who is trying to
force it on them.
That's why it works with other things in life too.
-=-Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking
her for help of any kind? -=-
Neither of those involve being nicer to her or thanking her profusely.
What is she getting out of living in the family? Does she feel empowered and
free, or is she treated like a child (and a bad child)?
I read Joyce's advice. I agree with it as a thought, but I know it's
frustrating to need another pair of hands and someone standing right there, and not
helping. But a balance would help. If you get help in an emergency or with
the interesting part, that's probably all you should count on, and if you're
then resentful for not getting more, the person might not want to help in the
next emergency, or might not find your stuff very interesting afterward.
I have a tall husband and two tall sons. I'm willing to get a chair and
climb up to get something off a top shelf if they're not home, but it's easier for
me and safer if I ask for help. But I wouldn't decide to empty and clean all
the high shelves, expecting their help, and getting grumpy if they weren't
willing to invest an hour of their life on short notice because I suddenly
thought we really needed new shelf paper up high or something.
I know sick chldren isn't something you thought up, but it's possible that a
quiet mom would help them get better faster than a frustrated and furious mom.
Do you have a baby carrier? A backpack? Could you carry the baby while you
take care of the boys? Can you nest up in one room and put on peaceful
movies and rub their heads or hold their hands until they fall asleep? Quiet
sleep is better for getting well than anything else.
People value physical things over mental and internal too often.
Puke on the floor can be cleaned up. A failing relationship with another
human is much, much harder to undo.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamabethuscg@... writes:
-=-Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her
"Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she
wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off,
which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit
and feed her PLEASE!" -=-
--------------
So two people were screaming?
-=-I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past
couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE
wants to do like that isn't helping me. -=-
Then what you're doing/saying isn't likely to "get it through her head." It
might not be the fault of her or her head.
If kids are too controlled they rebel against it. That's the principle
behind all of this unschooling business. If you tell them what theyhave to
read/write/add and when and how, that becomes what they don't want to do. They
resent reading/writing/adding and they come to resent the person who is trying to
force it on them.
That's why it works with other things in life too.
-=-Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking
her for help of any kind? -=-
Neither of those involve being nicer to her or thanking her profusely.
What is she getting out of living in the family? Does she feel empowered and
free, or is she treated like a child (and a bad child)?
I read Joyce's advice. I agree with it as a thought, but I know it's
frustrating to need another pair of hands and someone standing right there, and not
helping. But a balance would help. If you get help in an emergency or with
the interesting part, that's probably all you should count on, and if you're
then resentful for not getting more, the person might not want to help in the
next emergency, or might not find your stuff very interesting afterward.
I have a tall husband and two tall sons. I'm willing to get a chair and
climb up to get something off a top shelf if they're not home, but it's easier for
me and safer if I ask for help. But I wouldn't decide to empty and clean all
the high shelves, expecting their help, and getting grumpy if they weren't
willing to invest an hour of their life on short notice because I suddenly
thought we really needed new shelf paper up high or something.
I know sick chldren isn't something you thought up, but it's possible that a
quiet mom would help them get better faster than a frustrated and furious mom.
Do you have a baby carrier? A backpack? Could you carry the baby while you
take care of the boys? Can you nest up in one room and put on peaceful
movies and rub their heads or hold their hands until they fall asleep? Quiet
sleep is better for getting well than anything else.
People value physical things over mental and internal too often.
Puke on the floor can be cleaned up. A failing relationship with another
human is much, much harder to undo.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Betsy,
Having thought about this through the night, I have to agree with your last point. It doesn't seem like I'm asking at all by what I'm saying..and Sarah is very literal. "Telling" is setting up a confrontational situation..Looks like I need to choose my words more carefully and make sure that I'm truly "asking!"
MamaBeth
Betsy <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
**SIGH...I know there has got to be a better way than butting heads over
"helping."
**
I have this wild-assed idea that maybe she's practicing "saying no" and
"setting boundaries" based on watching you start to do it with your
neighbor and friend. Um... she's learning she doesn't HAVE to be a
"people pleaser", and that's a good thing in many ways. (Albeit a pain
for you right now.)
Different idea: read some of the sections in parenting books or women's
magazines about some of the issues when wives want husbands to help
around the house. The parallel is that in that case, as with your
daughter, the helper wants to use his or her judgement and the
mother/wife wants to specify exactly what should be done. Men hate
that, I hear, so maybe kids hate it too. (Yes, you were right about the
baby needed to be fed, but many people don't like to be instructed on
how to interact with a baby. It makes sense that husbands and older
children eventually do need to learn to read the baby's cues and needs
by reading the signals themselves. Your daughter's intentions in this
case could have been really good.
(Obviously I don't know the details of other bursts of uncooperativeness
and why she isn't pitching in, so my ideas about her motives are really
really only loosely based in fact <g>.)
I know this may sound smug, and I'm sorry for "Monday morning
quarterbacking you". Mothering is really a tough gig when dad is away.
I really respect how much work it is.
Betsy
PS OK, one more:
**I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is
hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle."**
This doesn't sound like "asking", it sounds like "telling". I think
it's important to be clear about the difference.
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To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Having thought about this through the night, I have to agree with your last point. It doesn't seem like I'm asking at all by what I'm saying..and Sarah is very literal. "Telling" is setting up a confrontational situation..Looks like I need to choose my words more carefully and make sure that I'm truly "asking!"
MamaBeth
Betsy <ecsamhill@...> wrote:
**SIGH...I know there has got to be a better way than butting heads over
"helping."
**
I have this wild-assed idea that maybe she's practicing "saying no" and
"setting boundaries" based on watching you start to do it with your
neighbor and friend. Um... she's learning she doesn't HAVE to be a
"people pleaser", and that's a good thing in many ways. (Albeit a pain
for you right now.)
Different idea: read some of the sections in parenting books or women's
magazines about some of the issues when wives want husbands to help
around the house. The parallel is that in that case, as with your
daughter, the helper wants to use his or her judgement and the
mother/wife wants to specify exactly what should be done. Men hate
that, I hear, so maybe kids hate it too. (Yes, you were right about the
baby needed to be fed, but many people don't like to be instructed on
how to interact with a baby. It makes sense that husbands and older
children eventually do need to learn to read the baby's cues and needs
by reading the signals themselves. Your daughter's intentions in this
case could have been really good.
(Obviously I don't know the details of other bursts of uncooperativeness
and why she isn't pitching in, so my ideas about her motives are really
really only loosely based in fact <g>.)
I know this may sound smug, and I'm sorry for "Monday morning
quarterbacking you". Mothering is really a tough gig when dad is away.
I really respect how much work it is.
Betsy
PS OK, one more:
**I ask her to help me in very specific ways. IE: "Sarah, Gracie is
hungry. I need you to sit and hold Gracie and give her her bottle."**
This doesn't sound like "asking", it sounds like "telling". I think
it's important to be clear about the difference.
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
That's a good point too, thanks. I think maybe I AM relying on her too much.
MamaBeth
Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
on 1/18/04 11:27 PM, Elizabeth Roberts at mamabethuscg@... wrote:
Well, you'd figure something out because it was a necessity!
What I'm seeing in your interactions is Sarah trying to do something to help
and what you want is conscripted labor.
Or another way of looking at it is that you're trying to split yourself in
two and have Sarah act as your clone and do everything you would do if you
could be two people.
So I think you have to let go of the control. If Sarah wasn't there, the
baby would cry while you helped Logan or Logan would throw up on his own or
you'd hold the baby the best you could while helping your son.
Ask her for whatever help she can give, offer some suggestions and then let
go. You could say, "Would you mind doing something with the baby? Maybe you
could try giving her a bottle, since that sounds like her hungry cry to me,"
then let go of control. (That'll be the hard part!) And when the crisis is
over say "Thanks every so much!"
I think you're thinking in the moment. You want the right kind of help right
now. But that type of reaction makes withdrawals from the relationship that
you pay for in the future: a child who is less willing to help because she
feels that what she can do is unappreciated.
Maybe by this age she should be feeling compassion and wanting to jump in to
help, but she's been set back because she feels what she can do isn't wanted
or appreciated. Or maybe she's still in the development phase of not being
able to see with compassion. All she sees is a mom whose taken on more kids
than she can handle and is dumping the excess on her.
Maybe it would help to reread what you wrote and substitute yourself in for
Sarah and your husband in for yourself. Imagine that he's doing something
that seems totally ridiculous to you, like juggling flaming torches and
wants you to handle one set in a particular way while he handles the ones
that are giving him trouble. That's quite likely the way she sees it until
she can get to the point where she knows whatever help she can do will be
appreciated.
Joyce
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> wrote:
on 1/18/04 11:27 PM, Elizabeth Roberts at mamabethuscg@... wrote:
> At the start of the week, when Paul went on duty I explained to Sarah that IWhat would you do if Sarah wasn't around?
> was going to need her help with alot more things, because I'd need to give so
> much attention to the Littles because they are so sick.
Well, you'd figure something out because it was a necessity!
What I'm seeing in your interactions is Sarah trying to do something to help
and what you want is conscripted labor.
Or another way of looking at it is that you're trying to split yourself in
two and have Sarah act as your clone and do everything you would do if you
could be two people.
So I think you have to let go of the control. If Sarah wasn't there, the
baby would cry while you helped Logan or Logan would throw up on his own or
you'd hold the baby the best you could while helping your son.
Ask her for whatever help she can give, offer some suggestions and then let
go. You could say, "Would you mind doing something with the baby? Maybe you
could try giving her a bottle, since that sounds like her hungry cry to me,"
then let go of control. (That'll be the hard part!) And when the crisis is
over say "Thanks every so much!"
I think you're thinking in the moment. You want the right kind of help right
now. But that type of reaction makes withdrawals from the relationship that
you pay for in the future: a child who is less willing to help because she
feels that what she can do is unappreciated.
Maybe by this age she should be feeling compassion and wanting to jump in to
help, but she's been set back because she feels what she can do isn't wanted
or appreciated. Or maybe she's still in the development phase of not being
able to see with compassion. All she sees is a mom whose taken on more kids
than she can handle and is dumping the excess on her.
Maybe it would help to reread what you wrote and substitute yourself in for
Sarah and your husband in for yourself. Imagine that he's doing something
that seems totally ridiculous to you, like juggling flaming torches and
wants you to handle one set in a particular way while he handles the ones
that are giving him trouble. That's quite likely the way she sees it until
she can get to the point where she knows whatever help she can do will be
appreciated.
Joyce
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/19/04 10:13 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
trying to convey the idea that her help isn't something that can't be done
without because if she wasn't there, mom *would* find a way to handle it all
alone.
Another pair of hands is a bonus. An extra. Something that needs cultivated
and appreciated. :-)
Joyce
> I read Joyce's advice. I agree with it as a thought, but I know it'sYes! I was trying *not* to say don't even think of asking her to help, while
> frustrating to need another pair of hands and someone standing right there,
> and not
> helping.
trying to convey the idea that her help isn't something that can't be done
without because if she wasn't there, mom *would* find a way to handle it all
alone.
Another pair of hands is a bonus. An extra. Something that needs cultivated
and appreciated. :-)
Joyce
Dawn Adams
Mamabeth writes:
dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Having thought about this through the night, I have to agree with your last point. It >doesn't seem like I'm asking at all by what I'm saying..and Sarah is very literal. >"Telling" is setting up a confrontational situation..Looks like I need to choose my words >more carefully and make sure that I'm truly "asking!"Mamabeth, I just want to say thank you because you keep bringing up issues and revealing things that I'm not sure I myself would. Inevitably your questions, as much as the responses, have me thinking about how I approach parenting and unschooling and push me along as much as some of the books and articles I've read. This thread in particular has opened my eyes to how I treat my oldest. You have a lot of guts to keep laying yourself bare like you do and I admire that. Thanks again! :)
>
>
dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Sandra,
Thanks...I actually don't have my baby carrier right now..it's over at "best friend's" house. I was just thinking this morning that I REALLY need to go get it, because yes, I could do more for Gracie myself AND for the other kids by wearing her.
You've given me alot to think about...although, with the one point..Megan has preferred the couch to sleep on for nearly a year now, and Logan for about a month. So we are often piled up on it snuggling and watching TV.
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/18/2004 9:29:23 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
-=-Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her
"Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she
wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off,
which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit
and feed her PLEASE!" -=-
--------------
So two people were screaming?
-=-I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past
couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE
wants to do like that isn't helping me. -=-
Then what you're doing/saying isn't likely to "get it through her head." It
might not be the fault of her or her head.
If kids are too controlled they rebel against it. That's the principle
behind all of this unschooling business. If you tell them what theyhave to
read/write/add and when and how, that becomes what they don't want to do. They
resent reading/writing/adding and they come to resent the person who is trying to
force it on them.
That's why it works with other things in life too.
-=-Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking
her for help of any kind? -=-
Neither of those involve being nicer to her or thanking her profusely.
What is she getting out of living in the family? Does she feel empowered and
free, or is she treated like a child (and a bad child)?
I read Joyce's advice. I agree with it as a thought, but I know it's
frustrating to need another pair of hands and someone standing right there, and not
helping. But a balance would help. If you get help in an emergency or with
the interesting part, that's probably all you should count on, and if you're
then resentful for not getting more, the person might not want to help in the
next emergency, or might not find your stuff very interesting afterward.
I have a tall husband and two tall sons. I'm willing to get a chair and
climb up to get something off a top shelf if they're not home, but it's easier for
me and safer if I ask for help. But I wouldn't decide to empty and clean all
the high shelves, expecting their help, and getting grumpy if they weren't
willing to invest an hour of their life on short notice because I suddenly
thought we really needed new shelf paper up high or something.
I know sick chldren isn't something you thought up, but it's possible that a
quiet mom would help them get better faster than a frustrated and furious mom.
Do you have a baby carrier? A backpack? Could you carry the baby while you
take care of the boys? Can you nest up in one room and put on peaceful
movies and rub their heads or hold their hands until they fall asleep? Quiet
sleep is better for getting well than anything else.
People value physical things over mental and internal too often.
Puke on the floor can be cleaned up. A failing relationship with another
human is much, much harder to undo.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks...I actually don't have my baby carrier right now..it's over at "best friend's" house. I was just thinking this morning that I REALLY need to go get it, because yes, I could do more for Gracie myself AND for the other kids by wearing her.
You've given me alot to think about...although, with the one point..Megan has preferred the couch to sleep on for nearly a year now, and Logan for about a month. So we are often piled up on it snuggling and watching TV.
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/18/2004 9:29:23 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mamabethuscg@... writes:
-=-Gracie's screaming because this isn't what she is wanting!! I tell her
"Sarah, go sit down with her and feed her her bottle!" and she says "But she
wants this (walking around)." and I explain "Sarah, she's screaming her head off,
which means that is NOT what she's wanting! She is crying her HUNGRY cry! Sit
and feed her PLEASE!" -=-
--------------
So two people were screaming?
-=-I can't seem to get it through her head (and she's done this for the past
couple years now, by the way..the oppositional thing) that doing what SHE
wants to do like that isn't helping me. -=-
Then what you're doing/saying isn't likely to "get it through her head." It
might not be the fault of her or her head.
If kids are too controlled they rebel against it. That's the principle
behind all of this unschooling business. If you tell them what theyhave to
read/write/add and when and how, that becomes what they don't want to do. They
resent reading/writing/adding and they come to resent the person who is trying to
force it on them.
That's why it works with other things in life too.
-=-Do I give her more ways of helping whenever possible or just quit asking
her for help of any kind? -=-
Neither of those involve being nicer to her or thanking her profusely.
What is she getting out of living in the family? Does she feel empowered and
free, or is she treated like a child (and a bad child)?
I read Joyce's advice. I agree with it as a thought, but I know it's
frustrating to need another pair of hands and someone standing right there, and not
helping. But a balance would help. If you get help in an emergency or with
the interesting part, that's probably all you should count on, and if you're
then resentful for not getting more, the person might not want to help in the
next emergency, or might not find your stuff very interesting afterward.
I have a tall husband and two tall sons. I'm willing to get a chair and
climb up to get something off a top shelf if they're not home, but it's easier for
me and safer if I ask for help. But I wouldn't decide to empty and clean all
the high shelves, expecting their help, and getting grumpy if they weren't
willing to invest an hour of their life on short notice because I suddenly
thought we really needed new shelf paper up high or something.
I know sick chldren isn't something you thought up, but it's possible that a
quiet mom would help them get better faster than a frustrated and furious mom.
Do you have a baby carrier? A backpack? Could you carry the baby while you
take care of the boys? Can you nest up in one room and put on peaceful
movies and rub their heads or hold their hands until they fall asleep? Quiet
sleep is better for getting well than anything else.
People value physical things over mental and internal too often.
Puke on the floor can be cleaned up. A failing relationship with another
human is much, much harder to undo.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
Joyce writes:
Thank you, thank you.
Dawn (off to do some thinking in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Another pair of hands is a bonus. An extra. Something that needs cultivatedOoooooh. This line, along with Mamabeth's original post has led to an epiphany for me with regards to how I treat my daughter at times. I thought I was doing so well but I still have that baggage where I think that she should be lending a hand at times (It's to be expected and not worthy of a thank you, when do I get a thank you? Ouch, thanks mom) instead of considering her help to be a gift when it does happen.
>and appreciated. :-)
>
>
Thank you, thank you.
Dawn (off to do some thinking in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/19/2004 10:46:59 AM Central Standard Time,
Wishbone@... writes:
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wishbone@... writes:
> Mamabeth, I just want to say thank you because you keep bringing up issuesYes Mamabeth, your brave honesty is refreshing.
> and revealing things that I'm not sure I myself would.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
You're welcome. I don't see myself as being particularly brave or anything...and at times I think "Oh, I shouldn't have said that...what must they think of me?" but I'm not perfect and I have no problems admitting that.
MamaBeth
Dawn Adams <Wishbone@...> wrote:
Mamabeth writes:
dawn (in NS)
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MamaBeth
Dawn Adams <Wishbone@...> wrote:
Mamabeth writes:
>Having thought about this through the night, I have to agree with your last point. It >doesn't seem like I'm asking at all by what I'm saying..and Sarah is very literal. >"Telling" is setting up a confrontational situation..Looks like I need to choose my words >more carefully and make sure that I'm truly "asking!"Mamabeth, I just want to say thank you because you keep bringing up issues and revealing things that I'm not sure I myself would. Inevitably your questions, as much as the responses, have me thinking about how I approach parenting and unschooling and push me along as much as some of the books and articles I've read. This thread in particular has opened my eyes to how I treat my oldest. You have a lot of guts to keep laying yourself bare like you do and I admire that. Thanks again! :)
>
>
dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Robyn Coburn
I�m going to go out on a limb here and suggest something completely
different. Elizabeth you post a lot, and the list volume at the moment is
high. When I am extra busy with things, or need to focus my attention
somewhere like completing a draft of my script, I go no-mail temporarily. I
don�t feel that I have missed anything because the archives can always be
checked, but even more so because the topics on the list are very cyclic.
Pretty much every issue comes back. Perhaps you should consider going
no-mail only when your dh is on duty, and then coming back when he is there.
Or at least while you have youngsters who are ill. We�ll be here when you
get back, or have a specific question, promise.
Robyn L. Coburn
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different. Elizabeth you post a lot, and the list volume at the moment is
high. When I am extra busy with things, or need to focus my attention
somewhere like completing a draft of my script, I go no-mail temporarily. I
don�t feel that I have missed anything because the archives can always be
checked, but even more so because the topics on the list are very cyclic.
Pretty much every issue comes back. Perhaps you should consider going
no-mail only when your dh is on duty, and then coming back when he is there.
Or at least while you have youngsters who are ill. We�ll be here when you
get back, or have a specific question, promise.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 1/13/2004
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.561 / Virus Database: 353 - Release Date: 1/13/2004
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]