worry about pessimism?
Kelly
I have learned so much from this list! It really challenges me and makes me think and I could use some input here!
I have concerns about my 2nd child. He will be 10 years old in May and he has autism. I've been unschooling him since July. Before this, we were doing 'school at home', albeit even then in a relaxed fashion. When we had Jonathan diagnosed, they tested his IQ at 88 and he's been consistently at a 1st/2nd grade level since around the age of 7.
Since we've been unschooling, his attitude has improved tenfold. He no longer has emotional meltdowns and seems SOOO much happier!! I could tell that I had been pressuring him to 'catch up' and that this was doing more harm than good. Hence the decision to just 'let it go'.
He is very artistic and loves to draw. He loves to play board games, so I have no real concerns about his math skills, as I can see that coming on its own, just through curiosity and play.
My concern with him is in the area of reading and pessimism. Before, when I was doing 'school at home', we worked through a phonics curriculum, and he did well with the decoding thing, but he still does not read.
He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.' Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he *can* read.
For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is 'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Btw...he doesn't like to be read to. He never has. He has auditory sensitivity issues and I really think that being read to was almost 'painful' for him in a way, as he is easily overwhelmed by auditory stimuli.
Any and all advice would be most welcome!!! And if there is anyone on this list unschooling a special needs child, I would LOVE to hear from you!! I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.
Thanks!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have concerns about my 2nd child. He will be 10 years old in May and he has autism. I've been unschooling him since July. Before this, we were doing 'school at home', albeit even then in a relaxed fashion. When we had Jonathan diagnosed, they tested his IQ at 88 and he's been consistently at a 1st/2nd grade level since around the age of 7.
Since we've been unschooling, his attitude has improved tenfold. He no longer has emotional meltdowns and seems SOOO much happier!! I could tell that I had been pressuring him to 'catch up' and that this was doing more harm than good. Hence the decision to just 'let it go'.
He is very artistic and loves to draw. He loves to play board games, so I have no real concerns about his math skills, as I can see that coming on its own, just through curiosity and play.
My concern with him is in the area of reading and pessimism. Before, when I was doing 'school at home', we worked through a phonics curriculum, and he did well with the decoding thing, but he still does not read.
He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.' Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he *can* read.
For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is 'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Btw...he doesn't like to be read to. He never has. He has auditory sensitivity issues and I really think that being read to was almost 'painful' for him in a way, as he is easily overwhelmed by auditory stimuli.
Any and all advice would be most welcome!!! And if there is anyone on this list unschooling a special needs child, I would LOVE to hear from you!! I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.
Thanks!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wife2Vegman
--- Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:
http://www.unschooling.com/discus/messages/603/603.html
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
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>http://sandradodd.com/special/anne
> Any and all advice would be most welcome!!! And if
> there is anyone on this list unschooling a special
> needs child, I would LOVE to hear from you!! I have
> yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online,
> who is unschooling an autistic child, or any child
> on the 'autism spectrum'.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kelly
http://www.unschooling.com/discus/messages/603/603.html
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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Elizabeth Roberts
Kelly,
Hello! Welcome to the group! I have four children. My oldest is Sarah, who is nearly 8 years old. She has a diagnosis of ADHD, quite possibly has mild Asberger's (sp?!) but we decided not to pursue testing for it. Next I have Logan, who is nearly 4. As far as we can tell at this point he is NT. Megan is 2 1/2, and has some developmental delays that may or may not be related to possible PDD-NOS but we're not pursuing a diagnosis there either. Gracie is 5 months old, and so far also seems NT.
We've kept Sarah home since the end of Kindergarten, nearly 2 years now. While she figured out that she "could" read during the first couple months of "first grade" she has only really begun to read since about last October. She, too, had a very pessimistic attitude towards reading. She is primarily an auditory learner, and visual things seem to be a weak spot for her. Mostly, we just kept reading to her and telling her that she COULD read. After about a year of having the technical knowledge but not really interest, she became interested in reading and will now read some. Like I said though she is primarily an auditory person so I don't expect her to ever become a "reader" like I am...I "devour" books. I continue to encourage her to read for fun, and listen as she reads when she wants to read aloud, which gives me the opportunity to see that her skills are improving. I just do my best though to understand that reading may never be her primary source for information or a favorite
"fun" activity.
Right now though, your son may just need you to continue to not make a big deal out of his reading or seeming lack of it. Keep interesting things around that he might like to read, especially if they are full of pictures and just be available. I think he'll do just fine eventually!
Good luck!
MamaBeth
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:
I have learned so much from this list! It really challenges me and makes me think and I could use some input here!
I have concerns about my 2nd child. He will be 10 years old in May and he has autism. I've been unschooling him since July. Before this, we were doing 'school at home', albeit even then in a relaxed fashion. When we had Jonathan diagnosed, they tested his IQ at 88 and he's been consistently at a 1st/2nd grade level since around the age of 7.
Since we've been unschooling, his attitude has improved tenfold. He no longer has emotional meltdowns and seems SOOO much happier!! I could tell that I had been pressuring him to 'catch up' and that this was doing more harm than good. Hence the decision to just 'let it go'.
He is very artistic and loves to draw. He loves to play board games, so I have no real concerns about his math skills, as I can see that coming on its own, just through curiosity and play.
My concern with him is in the area of reading and pessimism. Before, when I was doing 'school at home', we worked through a phonics curriculum, and he did well with the decoding thing, but he still does not read.
He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.' Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he *can* read.
For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is 'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Btw...he doesn't like to be read to. He never has. He has auditory sensitivity issues and I really think that being read to was almost 'painful' for him in a way, as he is easily overwhelmed by auditory stimuli.
Any and all advice would be most welcome!!! And if there is anyone on this list unschooling a special needs child, I would LOVE to hear from you!! I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.
Thanks!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
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Hello! Welcome to the group! I have four children. My oldest is Sarah, who is nearly 8 years old. She has a diagnosis of ADHD, quite possibly has mild Asberger's (sp?!) but we decided not to pursue testing for it. Next I have Logan, who is nearly 4. As far as we can tell at this point he is NT. Megan is 2 1/2, and has some developmental delays that may or may not be related to possible PDD-NOS but we're not pursuing a diagnosis there either. Gracie is 5 months old, and so far also seems NT.
We've kept Sarah home since the end of Kindergarten, nearly 2 years now. While she figured out that she "could" read during the first couple months of "first grade" she has only really begun to read since about last October. She, too, had a very pessimistic attitude towards reading. She is primarily an auditory learner, and visual things seem to be a weak spot for her. Mostly, we just kept reading to her and telling her that she COULD read. After about a year of having the technical knowledge but not really interest, she became interested in reading and will now read some. Like I said though she is primarily an auditory person so I don't expect her to ever become a "reader" like I am...I "devour" books. I continue to encourage her to read for fun, and listen as she reads when she wants to read aloud, which gives me the opportunity to see that her skills are improving. I just do my best though to understand that reading may never be her primary source for information or a favorite
"fun" activity.
Right now though, your son may just need you to continue to not make a big deal out of his reading or seeming lack of it. Keep interesting things around that he might like to read, especially if they are full of pictures and just be available. I think he'll do just fine eventually!
Good luck!
MamaBeth
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:
I have learned so much from this list! It really challenges me and makes me think and I could use some input here!
I have concerns about my 2nd child. He will be 10 years old in May and he has autism. I've been unschooling him since July. Before this, we were doing 'school at home', albeit even then in a relaxed fashion. When we had Jonathan diagnosed, they tested his IQ at 88 and he's been consistently at a 1st/2nd grade level since around the age of 7.
Since we've been unschooling, his attitude has improved tenfold. He no longer has emotional meltdowns and seems SOOO much happier!! I could tell that I had been pressuring him to 'catch up' and that this was doing more harm than good. Hence the decision to just 'let it go'.
He is very artistic and loves to draw. He loves to play board games, so I have no real concerns about his math skills, as I can see that coming on its own, just through curiosity and play.
My concern with him is in the area of reading and pessimism. Before, when I was doing 'school at home', we worked through a phonics curriculum, and he did well with the decoding thing, but he still does not read.
He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.' Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he *can* read.
For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is 'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Btw...he doesn't like to be read to. He never has. He has auditory sensitivity issues and I really think that being read to was almost 'painful' for him in a way, as he is easily overwhelmed by auditory stimuli.
Any and all advice would be most welcome!!! And if there is anyone on this list unschooling a special needs child, I would LOVE to hear from you!! I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.
Thanks!
Kelly
"One day you'll wake up and realize you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library." - Good Will Hunting
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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---------------------------------
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Marjorie Kirk
For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and
said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and
that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is
'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the
joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help
him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't
read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage
already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or
can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore,
figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the
'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Thanks!
Kelly
I don't have any suggestions for auditory sensitivities, but as far as
whether or not to make him sound out the words, here's what I did with my
oldest who is a perfectionist and easily frustrated. When he was going to
read a new book, I would look over the first couple of pages and say
something like, "There are some new words here that you might not know like
xxxx, and xxxx and xxxxx" as I pointed to the "harder" words and read them.
Then, he would read the pages to me. The we would preview the next few
pages. That way he could read the book without having to stop and ask me
what the words were, or slowly sound them out. It helped a lot with the "I
cant's".
Marjorie
said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and
that was 'digital'. So I said, "Is it just this word here? That word is
'digital'" And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the
joke with ease.
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help
him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't
read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage
already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or
can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore,
figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the
'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Thanks!
Kelly
I don't have any suggestions for auditory sensitivities, but as far as
whether or not to make him sound out the words, here's what I did with my
oldest who is a perfectionist and easily frustrated. When he was going to
read a new book, I would look over the first couple of pages and say
something like, "There are some new words here that you might not know like
xxxx, and xxxx and xxxxx" as I pointed to the "harder" words and read them.
Then, he would read the pages to me. The we would preview the next few
pages. That way he could read the book without having to stop and ask me
what the words were, or slowly sound them out. It helped a lot with the "I
cant's".
Marjorie
liza sabater
On Tuesday, January 13, 2004, at 09:47 PM, Marjorie Kirk wrote:
evan is like that as well. he will say, "i can't do it" for the drama
effect. then i will ask, which word can't you do. he'll point to it and
the drama is all gone.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Is there any way that I can helpi think you already did. you asked him if it was the one word.
> him with this attitude?
evan is like that as well. he will say, "i can't do it" for the drama
effect. then i will ask, which word can't you do. he'll point to it and
the drama is all gone.
l i z a
=========================
www.culturekitchen.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom
<<But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
Well, it ended up that the kids loved the Harry Potter books and I read them over and over. We eventually got the audiobooks and she listened to them almost constantly in her room. Last fall she started picking up the books to look up various passages and found she wasn't as intimidated as before. Soon she read the first HP book (and her first book) on her own in 3-4 days. And now she's branched out to "The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter" and various other things. In fact, a few weeks ago she announced in mock horror "Oh no, I'm turning into a bookworm!"
You mentioned that your son does not enjoy being read to, so maybe you can bring the words to him in a different way. I know my eldest learned to enjoy the written word through video game guides and magazines. Does your son have an interest that maybe you could get a magazine subscription for? Especially if the magazine has wonderful pictures in it as well. He can get info through the pictures to start and his interest may lead him to start reading the captions and eventually the articles. For now, you can do any reading he wants from it for him.
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore, figure it out? Or is it better for me to read it for him and ignore the 'pessimistic', "I can't" attitude?
>>Here's our experience. My daughter went through the "I can't read" stage after she left school (she was almost 8). What I did was to remove any pressure she felt. I knew she *could* read, technically, but obviously she had no such confidence. So I did not ask her to sound anything out; I just read whatever she asked. I did point out to her once in a while when she was reading a word here and there ... see you can read, you just haven't meet all the words yet (and I mentioned how I sometimes come across new words as well - nobody knows them all!). I would get books from the library that I thought she might like and left them lying around. And I read stories to the kids. This lasted just over a year.
Well, it ended up that the kids loved the Harry Potter books and I read them over and over. We eventually got the audiobooks and she listened to them almost constantly in her room. Last fall she started picking up the books to look up various passages and found she wasn't as intimidated as before. Soon she read the first HP book (and her first book) on her own in 3-4 days. And now she's branched out to "The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter" and various other things. In fact, a few weeks ago she announced in mock horror "Oh no, I'm turning into a bookworm!"
You mentioned that your son does not enjoy being read to, so maybe you can bring the words to him in a different way. I know my eldest learned to enjoy the written word through video game guides and magazines. Does your son have an interest that maybe you could get a magazine subscription for? Especially if the magazine has wonderful pictures in it as well. He can get info through the pictures to start and his interest may lead him to start reading the captions and eventually the articles. For now, you can do any reading he wants from it for him.
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle Conger
Kelly wrote:
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
Hey Kelly,
I've been thinking more about this, and I really think the best thing to do is back off completely. I know a big part of your concern is J being down on himself and believing that he "can't" do it--far more than you're worried about the act of reading itself. But I think at this point any kind of "encouragement" however hands-off and well-meaning is going to reinforce his attitude of "they want me to be able to do this, but I just can't."
I've been reflecting on this in terms of Emily, who had only about 3 weeks of daily practice "encouraged" on her. It was turning so incredibly negative. Once we completely, and I mean completely, backed off, she began to do things on her own terms. At first she just didn't do anything at all, but then she started reading little things like boxes, signs, video titles. She built up her confidence in her own way and on her own terms and started thinking to herself, "hey, I can do this!" Gradually, she went back to the Clifford readers, which dh and I had decided were "too easy" for her and had "encouraged" her to move away from. She would read 2 or 3 at a time and reinforce the confidence that she was rebuilding on her own, now that we'd finally stopped interfering with her.
Then the other night she read 4 in a row while snuggling in bed with me--I was just keeping my mouth shut! I'm still disappointed with myself because she'll look up at me periodically, asking with her eyes "am I getting this right?" I'm just smiling at her and listening, maybe a wink or a rub periodically, but I'm trying to be way hands off. After the 4th book was done, she yawned and said, "I am getting *so* good at reading! I'm going to bed now, mama. I love you!"
Emily is beginning to own the reading for herself, which is what is reversing the "I can't" attitude. Yes, damage has already been done. I think it's minimal, and I'm very grateful to have come to my senses sooner rather than later. But I really believe that the only reason she's changing her attitude is because I have dropped any efforts to encourage. I quietly support by being there to listen when she's ready to read, but that's it.
Watching her read on her own terms without any involvement from us was really dh's turning point on unschooling. While he had been generally supportive of it, he was hanging onto the whole math and reading thing. Now, he's seeing how unschooling works in action, and he's really impressed. I'm sure that we'll revisit his concerns periodically, and I feel bad that Emily will take the brunt of it all as the oldest. But now, I have a success story to remind him about. <eg>
--danielle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
But his initial attitude was "I can't." Is there any way that I can help him with this attitude? In other words, if he has the attitude of "I can't read," will that ever change on its own? Or has the proverbial damage already been done? Will he ever become a reader if he thinks he is not, or can't be, or, maybe even never will be able to become a reader?
Hey Kelly,
I've been thinking more about this, and I really think the best thing to do is back off completely. I know a big part of your concern is J being down on himself and believing that he "can't" do it--far more than you're worried about the act of reading itself. But I think at this point any kind of "encouragement" however hands-off and well-meaning is going to reinforce his attitude of "they want me to be able to do this, but I just can't."
I've been reflecting on this in terms of Emily, who had only about 3 weeks of daily practice "encouraged" on her. It was turning so incredibly negative. Once we completely, and I mean completely, backed off, she began to do things on her own terms. At first she just didn't do anything at all, but then she started reading little things like boxes, signs, video titles. She built up her confidence in her own way and on her own terms and started thinking to herself, "hey, I can do this!" Gradually, she went back to the Clifford readers, which dh and I had decided were "too easy" for her and had "encouraged" her to move away from. She would read 2 or 3 at a time and reinforce the confidence that she was rebuilding on her own, now that we'd finally stopped interfering with her.
Then the other night she read 4 in a row while snuggling in bed with me--I was just keeping my mouth shut! I'm still disappointed with myself because she'll look up at me periodically, asking with her eyes "am I getting this right?" I'm just smiling at her and listening, maybe a wink or a rub periodically, but I'm trying to be way hands off. After the 4th book was done, she yawned and said, "I am getting *so* good at reading! I'm going to bed now, mama. I love you!"
Emily is beginning to own the reading for herself, which is what is reversing the "I can't" attitude. Yes, damage has already been done. I think it's minimal, and I'm very grateful to have come to my senses sooner rather than later. But I really believe that the only reason she's changing her attitude is because I have dropped any efforts to encourage. I quietly support by being there to listen when she's ready to read, but that's it.
Watching her read on her own terms without any involvement from us was really dh's turning point on unschooling. While he had been generally supportive of it, he was hanging onto the whole math and reading thing. Now, he's seeing how unschooling works in action, and he's really impressed. I'm sure that we'll revisit his concerns periodically, and I feel bad that Emily will take the brunt of it all as the oldest. But now, I have a success story to remind him about. <eg>
--danielle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/04 5:12:35 PM, apmomto4@... writes:
<< He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.'
Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he
*can* read. >>
Holly couldn't read when she was ten, and she wanted to, but the "parts"
weren't all in her head yet. Her only known biological disadvantage is she was a
preemie. Her teeth came in slowly too. She only got her "eye teeth" within
the past year. That may or may not have anything to do with it. There's an
"old wives tale" that until those teeth are in a child won't read.
<<For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and
said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and
that was 'digital'. >>
It helped my kids to know that sometimes even the best of readers will come
to a word she doesn't know. It helped them to know that some words I know by
sight and some I have to sound out because they're new or uncommon.
It helped them for me to remind them of other things they learned in stages.
Roller blading, runnning and jumping, playing video games. There's a
beginning stage, and a getting-better stage, and though they might get pretty quick
at reading, they'll never have seen all the words there are in the world.
It's a process.
<<And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore,
figure it out? >>
I don't think that's a good idea. You could sound one out for him. With
"digital," I would have said, "Oh, that's a hard word. "g" is usually hard, like
"dig" in English, but this one is from the word "digit" that means finger.
It's from Latin or Greek word parts. "Digital" just has to do with counting
and numbers, and people count on their fingers."
I told TONS of stories like that to kids learning to read. For one thing,
it's distracting (in a good way) and it shows WHY English is so inconsistent.
It trades them a COOL piece of knowledge for their sad frustration in not
reading a word they might never even have heard or seen before.
In Walmart on Monday Holly said there are words with "th" in the middle which
are NOT "th" words. "Foothills" and "Sweetheart." We talked about how
hard that must be to read for kids who are looking for phonics blends they have
learned, instead of looking at the words themselves to see what they seem to
be made of.
Phonics says to work from front to end, sounding out. But if a child is
looking at the whole word and seeing FIRST whether it's something sensible he
recognizes in context, he will see those two for the English compound words they
are, broken between the t and the h.
Simple English one-syllable words are the most commonly used in English.
There are tons of the longer words we have from French, Latin and Greek, but
they're not the bulk of everyday speech and writing. They're the bulk of the
dictionary, but that's a different way to count.
I think the more words he knows from watching movies, singing songs, talking,
playing video games, etc., the easier it will be for him to recognize those
words when his reading ability DOES kick in. Holly had a huge vocabulary
before she could read, so she would as easily have been able to read "vocabulary"
as "words." When it made sense to her, it made sense. What would have been
difficult for her in the few sentences above would be "huge" and "singing" and
"does."
<<And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with
ease.>>
Prompting might not be as helpful as just reading it to him and letting him
think "I knew that," if he did. If he didn't, pressing him to perform is
actually pressing him to fail, again.
When he can read he WILL read.
<< I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is
unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.>>
There's an Asperger's boy who was in our unschooling group here from the time
he was 11 or so. He had been in school and spent the first few meetings
standing looking intently at the bark of a tree. One of my boys would check with
him every twenty minutes or so, and invite him to come and play if they had
changed games, but they said "That's okay" happily if he refused. And after a
few weeks he started at least turning to watch them, or standing nearer, and
soon he was playing with them for a while. Nobody made a big deal of it one
way or another (I don't know how his mom was after we weren't there, but she
seemed happy in the mom-conversations). When we moved to a bigger houses and
meetings were here on cold days, he started staying at our house sometimes to
play video games, after his mom was gone.
He's 18 now, or 19 maybe. He has taken some classes at the technical school,
he has had a job for a while (at a grocery store, I think), and is actually
TALKATIVE!
The squinch-eyed fear he had when he first came out of school is long gone.
It helped finding some people who would treat him like a person instead of
like "a special ed kid."
Kelly, there are some stories by moms of special needs kids here:
http://sandradodd.com/specialunschooling
Sandra
Sandra
<< He has the attitude of 'I can't read.' and 'I don't know how to read.'
Even though, from last year, when we were doing school at home, I know he
*can* read. >>
Holly couldn't read when she was ten, and she wanted to, but the "parts"
weren't all in her head yet. Her only known biological disadvantage is she was a
preemie. Her teeth came in slowly too. She only got her "eye teeth" within
the past year. That may or may not have anything to do with it. There's an
"old wives tale" that until those teeth are in a child won't read.
<<For instance, today he brought a popsicle stick to me with a joke on it and
said, "I can't read this." The words were all simple, save for one word and
that was 'digital'. >>
It helped my kids to know that sometimes even the best of readers will come
to a word she doesn't know. It helped them to know that some words I know by
sight and some I have to sound out because they're new or uncommon.
It helped them for me to remind them of other things they learned in stages.
Roller blading, runnning and jumping, playing video games. There's a
beginning stage, and a getting-better stage, and though they might get pretty quick
at reading, they'll never have seen all the words there are in the world.
It's a process.
<<And is it better for me to encourage him to sound words out and, therefore,
figure it out? >>
I don't think that's a good idea. You could sound one out for him. With
"digital," I would have said, "Oh, that's a hard word. "g" is usually hard, like
"dig" in English, but this one is from the word "digit" that means finger.
It's from Latin or Greek word parts. "Digital" just has to do with counting
and numbers, and people count on their fingers."
I told TONS of stories like that to kids learning to read. For one thing,
it's distracting (in a good way) and it shows WHY English is so inconsistent.
It trades them a COOL piece of knowledge for their sad frustration in not
reading a word they might never even have heard or seen before.
In Walmart on Monday Holly said there are words with "th" in the middle which
are NOT "th" words. "Foothills" and "Sweetheart." We talked about how
hard that must be to read for kids who are looking for phonics blends they have
learned, instead of looking at the words themselves to see what they seem to
be made of.
Phonics says to work from front to end, sounding out. But if a child is
looking at the whole word and seeing FIRST whether it's something sensible he
recognizes in context, he will see those two for the English compound words they
are, broken between the t and the h.
Simple English one-syllable words are the most commonly used in English.
There are tons of the longer words we have from French, Latin and Greek, but
they're not the bulk of everyday speech and writing. They're the bulk of the
dictionary, but that's a different way to count.
I think the more words he knows from watching movies, singing songs, talking,
playing video games, etc., the easier it will be for him to recognize those
words when his reading ability DOES kick in. Holly had a huge vocabulary
before she could read, so she would as easily have been able to read "vocabulary"
as "words." When it made sense to her, it made sense. What would have been
difficult for her in the few sentences above would be "huge" and "singing" and
"does."
<<And then, with prompting on my part, he read the rest of the joke with
ease.>>
Prompting might not be as helpful as just reading it to him and letting him
think "I knew that," if he did. If he didn't, pressing him to perform is
actually pressing him to fail, again.
When he can read he WILL read.
<< I have yet to meet anyone, either in 'real life' or online, who is
unschooling an autistic child, or any child on the 'autism spectrum'.>>
There's an Asperger's boy who was in our unschooling group here from the time
he was 11 or so. He had been in school and spent the first few meetings
standing looking intently at the bark of a tree. One of my boys would check with
him every twenty minutes or so, and invite him to come and play if they had
changed games, but they said "That's okay" happily if he refused. And after a
few weeks he started at least turning to watch them, or standing nearer, and
soon he was playing with them for a while. Nobody made a big deal of it one
way or another (I don't know how his mom was after we weren't there, but she
seemed happy in the mom-conversations). When we moved to a bigger houses and
meetings were here on cold days, he started staying at our house sometimes to
play video games, after his mom was gone.
He's 18 now, or 19 maybe. He has taken some classes at the technical school,
he has had a job for a while (at a grocery store, I think), and is actually
TALKATIVE!
The squinch-eyed fear he had when he first came out of school is long gone.
It helped finding some people who would treat him like a person instead of
like "a special ed kid."
Kelly, there are some stories by moms of special needs kids here:
http://sandradodd.com/specialunschooling
Sandra
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Jan 14, 2004, at 9:38 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
(sorry blanked out on his name) showed us something kind of cool - I'll
leave space so you don't read ahead - just do one step at a time:
Read this word out loud: "ma"
Read this word out loud: "mag"
Now read this word out loud: "magi"
Now read this word out loud: "magic"
HOW did you pronounce the "a" in "ma" versus "mag?" Why did you change
it?
How did you pronounce the "i" in "magi" versus "magic?" Why did you
change it?
You do NOT read letters within a word from left to right - you HAD to
know what was on the right of the "i" in "magic" in order to know how
to pronounce the "i" correctly. You have to look at all the letters at
once in order to read. Teaching kids to read one letter at a time slows
down their learning to read - makes it harder.
How do you read "rig" versus "right?" How do you read "fire" versus
"first"?
You cannot read well by "sounding out" from left to right. It isn't
possible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> Phonics says to work from front to end, sounding out. But if aAt the Live and Learn Conference, the guy with the spelling program
> child is
> looking at the whole word and seeing FIRST whether it's something
> sensible he
> recognizes in context, he will see those two for the English compound
> words they
> are, broken between the t and the h.
(sorry blanked out on his name) showed us something kind of cool - I'll
leave space so you don't read ahead - just do one step at a time:
Read this word out loud: "ma"
Read this word out loud: "mag"
Now read this word out loud: "magi"
Now read this word out loud: "magic"
HOW did you pronounce the "a" in "ma" versus "mag?" Why did you change
it?
How did you pronounce the "i" in "magi" versus "magic?" Why did you
change it?
You do NOT read letters within a word from left to right - you HAD to
know what was on the right of the "i" in "magic" in order to know how
to pronounce the "i" correctly. You have to look at all the letters at
once in order to read. Teaching kids to read one letter at a time slows
down their learning to read - makes it harder.
How do you read "rig" versus "right?" How do you read "fire" versus
"first"?
You cannot read well by "sounding out" from left to right. It isn't
possible.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/2004 12:18:55 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time and
finally heard said but I will still say them wrong if I want to use them
because I knew what they meant through reading and had my own way of saying them in
my head. Does that make sense? I hate that though, saying a word wrong, LOL
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> It helped my kids to know that sometimes even the best of readers will comeThere are still a number of words that I have only read, never heard said
>
> to a word she doesn't know. It helped them to know that some words I know
> by
> sight and some I have to sound out because they're new or uncommon.
>
>
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time and
finally heard said but I will still say them wrong if I want to use them
because I knew what they meant through reading and had my own way of saying them in
my head. Does that make sense? I hate that though, saying a word wrong, LOL
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/13/04 5:40:58 PM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< Mostly, we just kept reading to her and telling her that she COULD read.
And about foods, "You might like it someday!"
Sandra
<< Mostly, we just kept reading to her and telling her that she COULD read.
>>I think the happiest thing to say to a child is "You will read someday!"
And about foods, "You might like it someday!"
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/04 12:19:48 PM, BonKnit@... writes:
<< There are still a number of words that I have only read, never heard said
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time
and
finally heard said >>
I've heard that called "reader's vocabulary."
Some people have DOZENS of words they know visually but have never ever
heard. I think it's a problem with the worship of reading in the current absence
of people going to public plays, lectures and sermons.
The sermons I grew up hearing had no words that weren't in the Bible or that
weren't pretty easy words. Not high level intellectual stuff, Southern
Baptists. But in some other churches people can learn a lot of words in church.
Reading has become the primary focus of learning and so it's not uncommon for
someone to be great on paper, but confused or confusing face to face with
people who have that vocabulary in mouth as well as in mind.
"Reading" and "language" aren't just ideas for beginners. The subtle aspects
of that kind of learning keeps on going!
Sandra
<< There are still a number of words that I have only read, never heard said
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time
and
finally heard said >>
I've heard that called "reader's vocabulary."
Some people have DOZENS of words they know visually but have never ever
heard. I think it's a problem with the worship of reading in the current absence
of people going to public plays, lectures and sermons.
The sermons I grew up hearing had no words that weren't in the Bible or that
weren't pretty easy words. Not high level intellectual stuff, Southern
Baptists. But in some other churches people can learn a lot of words in church.
Reading has become the primary focus of learning and so it's not uncommon for
someone to be great on paper, but confused or confusing face to face with
people who have that vocabulary in mouth as well as in mind.
"Reading" and "language" aren't just ideas for beginners. The subtle aspects
of that kind of learning keeps on going!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/2004 3:50:42 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
is really weird too. To hear a word you've never heard and then bingo a light
goes on.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Some people have DOZENS of words they know visually but have never everI love that moment when it occurs to me I just heard one of those words, that
> heard.
is really weird too. To hear a word you've never heard and then bingo a light
goes on.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology. The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/14/04 12:19:48 PM, BonKnit@... writes:
<< There are still a number of words that I have only read, never heard said
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time
and
finally heard said >>
I've heard that called "reader's vocabulary."
Some people have DOZENS of words they know visually but have never ever
heard. I think it's a problem with the worship of reading in the current absence
of people going to public plays, lectures and sermons.
The sermons I grew up hearing had no words that weren't in the Bible or that
weren't pretty easy words. Not high level intellectual stuff, Southern
Baptists. But in some other churches people can learn a lot of words in church.
Reading has become the primary focus of learning and so it's not uncommon for
someone to be great on paper, but confused or confusing face to face with
people who have that vocabulary in mouth as well as in mind.
"Reading" and "language" aren't just ideas for beginners. The subtle aspects
of that kind of learning keeps on going!
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/14/04 12:19:48 PM, BonKnit@... writes:
<< There are still a number of words that I have only read, never heard said
aloud. What's funny is that there are also a few that I read for a long time
and
finally heard said >>
I've heard that called "reader's vocabulary."
Some people have DOZENS of words they know visually but have never ever
heard. I think it's a problem with the worship of reading in the current absence
of people going to public plays, lectures and sermons.
The sermons I grew up hearing had no words that weren't in the Bible or that
weren't pretty easy words. Not high level intellectual stuff, Southern
Baptists. But in some other churches people can learn a lot of words in church.
Reading has become the primary focus of learning and so it's not uncommon for
someone to be great on paper, but confused or confusing face to face with
people who have that vocabulary in mouth as well as in mind.
"Reading" and "language" aren't just ideas for beginners. The subtle aspects
of that kind of learning keeps on going!
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
24hrmom
<<When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology. The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!>>
My kids love the story I tell them about when I was 7-8 or so and reading some of the books my Dad saved ... Famous Five, Secret Seven etc. - he came over from England when he was 12. Pretty regularly they would call each other an idiot in jest, which I read as "i-dot". It was a while before I heard idiot and realised it was the same word! They get a good laugh ... and a reminder that everyone makes mistakes ... no big deal!
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My kids love the story I tell them about when I was 7-8 or so and reading some of the books my Dad saved ... Famous Five, Secret Seven etc. - he came over from England when he was 12. Pretty regularly they would call each other an idiot in jest, which I read as "i-dot". It was a while before I heard idiot and realised it was the same word! They get a good laugh ... and a reminder that everyone makes mistakes ... no big deal!
Pam L
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/04 4:22:56 PM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology.
The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing
really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't
until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I
realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!
"Hermione" was named "Persephone" (for the same reason of it being
unpronounceable without having heard it).
Holly talked to me about that and it turned into a column for HEM.
It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/r/persephonics
More people might have seen it, but the link was bad for months until someone
pointed it out to me yesterday.
Sandra
<< When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology.
The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing
really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't
until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I
realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!
>>Arthur (the cartoon on PBS did a kind of Harry Potter parallel, and their
"Hermione" was named "Persephone" (for the same reason of it being
unpronounceable without having heard it).
Holly talked to me about that and it turned into a column for HEM.
It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/r/persephonics
More people might have seen it, but the link was bad for months until someone
pointed it out to me yesterday.
Sandra
Elizabeth Roberts
Sandra,
Thanks! I hadn't seen that article, and I enjoyed it! LOL "Hermione" was another word/name I never quite pronounced right coming at it from strictly phonics til I'd heard it elsewhere! "Her-me-own" was my pronunciation until I heard it as "Her-MY-nee"
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/14/04 4:22:56 PM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology.
The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing
really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't
until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I
realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!
"Hermione" was named "Persephone" (for the same reason of it being
unpronounceable without having heard it).
Holly talked to me about that and it turned into a column for HEM.
It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/r/persephonics
More people might have seen it, but the link was bad for months until someone
pointed it out to me yesterday.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks! I hadn't seen that article, and I enjoyed it! LOL "Hermione" was another word/name I never quite pronounced right coming at it from strictly phonics til I'd heard it elsewhere! "Her-me-own" was my pronunciation until I heard it as "Her-MY-nee"
MamaBeth
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/14/04 4:22:56 PM, mamabethuscg@... writes:
<< When I was a kid, one of my favorite books was D'Aulaires Greek Mythology.
The illustrations were wonderful, and I was fascinated by the whole thing
really...anyway, I had always read "Persephone" as "Per-seh-phone" It wasn't
until I was in high school that I heard someone say "Per-sef-oh-nee" that I
realized I hadn't "read" it correctly!
>>Arthur (the cartoon on PBS did a kind of Harry Potter parallel, and their
"Hermione" was named "Persephone" (for the same reason of it being
unpronounceable without having heard it).
Holly talked to me about that and it turned into a column for HEM.
It's here:
http://sandradodd.com/r/persephonics
More people might have seen it, but the link was bad for months until someone
pointed it out to me yesterday.
Sandra
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Not to gush, but this column of Sandra's just blew me away.
Unschooling would benefit if this column got an audience much bigger than our
unschooling choir imo.
Are you open to entertaining possible ideas on doing that, if any of
us can come up with some?
Quoting the column: "Where learning is concerned, it's never too late
and everything counts."
JJ
SandraDodd@... writes:
Unschooling would benefit if this column got an audience much bigger than our
unschooling choir imo.
Are you open to entertaining possible ideas on doing that, if any of
us can come up with some?
Quoting the column: "Where learning is concerned, it's never too late
and everything counts."
JJ
SandraDodd@... writes:
> http://sandradodd.com/r/persephonics[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/2004 7:35:56 AM Central Standard Time,
jrossedd@... writes:
Laur Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jrossedd@... writes:
> Not to gush, but this column of Sandra's just blew me away.Yes, this is excellent! I will certainly post the link to my other lists.
> Unschooling would benefit if this column got an audience much bigger than
> our
> unschooling choir imo.
>
Laur Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sorcha_aisling
Ok, I'll bite. How else is persevere pronounced? I was hoping the
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
Sorcha
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
Sorcha
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/04 6:35:59 AM, jrossedd@... writes:
<< Are you open to entertaining possible ideas on doing that, if any
of
us can come up with some? >>
Sure.
It was in Home Education Magazine. That's not all unschoolers.
I read through it again this morning and polished it a bit (some spaces, a
word or two), so if you're sending it on, use the current version on the webpage
rather than what you might've saved yesterday or what was in the magazine.
I didn't change much.
Sandra
<< Are you open to entertaining possible ideas on doing that, if any
of
us can come up with some? >>
Sure.
It was in Home Education Magazine. That's not all unschoolers.
I read through it again this morning and polished it a bit (some spaces, a
word or two), so if you're sending it on, use the current version on the webpage
rather than what you might've saved yesterday or what was in the magazine.
I didn't change much.
Sandra
Elizabeth Roberts
I've always said "Per-seh-veer" but I've also heard "Per-sev-er"
MamaBeth
sorcha_aisling <sorcha_aisling@...> wrote:
Ok, I'll bite. How else is persevere pronounced? I was hoping the
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
Sorcha
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MamaBeth
sorcha_aisling <sorcha_aisling@...> wrote:
Ok, I'll bite. How else is persevere pronounced? I was hoping the
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
Sorcha
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In a message dated 1/15/04 10:22:22 AM, sorcha_aisling@... writes:
<< Ok, I'll bite. How else is persevere pronounced? I was hoping the
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek words Persephone or
Penelope? >>
No, but that's a good idea! <bwg>
It's a question of whether the stressed syllable is the second one (per SE
ver) to rhyme with "sever" or on the end, to rhyme with "severe."
Americans do it the second way, which might be a communal bit of "reader's
vocabulary" or it might not be.
Americans and Brits tend to pronounce "harassment" differently too.
Americans are heavy on the "ass," from seeing it written and not hearing it
pronounced (except by other Americans, I suspect). Once a few million people have
settled on a pronunciation, it gains legitimacy no matter how they got the idea
to pronounce it that way in the first place.
Sandra
<< Ok, I'll bite. How else is persevere pronounced? I was hoping the
dictionary would tell me, but it only has one pronounciation, per-sev-
ear. Do you mean it's pronounced per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek
words Persephone or Penelope?
>><< Do you mean it's pronounced
per-sev-er-ree, following the Greek words Persephone or
Penelope? >>
No, but that's a good idea! <bwg>
It's a question of whether the stressed syllable is the second one (per SE
ver) to rhyme with "sever" or on the end, to rhyme with "severe."
Americans do it the second way, which might be a communal bit of "reader's
vocabulary" or it might not be.
Americans and Brits tend to pronounce "harassment" differently too.
Americans are heavy on the "ass," from seeing it written and not hearing it
pronounced (except by other Americans, I suspect). Once a few million people have
settled on a pronunciation, it gains legitimacy no matter how they got the idea
to pronounce it that way in the first place.
Sandra