[email protected]

** I can see where it would be confusing for a child. My MIL would put them
on
the grandson she's raising when it was convenient for HER, not necessarily
for
Todd. He'd say he had to go and she'd tell him to go ahead, he was wearing a
pull up. Sometimes he would even cry to be taken to the bathroom but she
would insist he just "go".

He's six, doesn't wear pull ups (ended up wearing depends because he's so
big) anymore but will sit in his little recliner chair watching cartoons and
then say, "nanny, I messed my man shorts! come change me!" And she does.
There
was a time when he didn't want to go on himself. That has passed, doesn't
bother him at all now.**

The pullups didn't confuse the boy, his grandmother did.

It's never a good idea to look at abberant behaviour and then make
generalizations from the observation. People who won't take a child to the bathroom when
he's crying to go probably don't represent the majority of pullup users.

Deborah in IL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/2003 2:50:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
DACunefare@... writes:
It's never a good idea to look at abberant behaviour and then make
generalizations from the observation. People who won't take a child to the
bathroom when
he's crying to go probably don't represent the majority of pullup users.


Probably not, but the people that I personally know that use pullups, do so
for the Parents/grandparents/adults convenience. I'm sure there are others who
use them for reasons that benefit the child. I've just never met them.

I think they make it easier on the parents and perhaps more comfortable on
the child, by letting them feel less wet when they do go.

How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically? Just to help
them be more comfortable when they "go"? Wouldn't the benefit be the same if
the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned and dried them?

I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about these pull ups firsthand.
Simply from watching/talking to those who DO use them.

They seem like an expensive consumable to me.


glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

averyschmidt

> How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically?
Just to help
> them be more comfortable when they "go"? Wouldn't the benefit be
the same if
> the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned
and dried them?

Why use diapers at all then, even with young infants? Why not just
let the baby pee everywhere and then just change their clothes
continually? I'm guessing because it saves lots of laundry along
with keeping the child more comfortable. Even with cloth diapers
the urine/feces is contained rather than running down the child's
leg, over furniture, carpet and everywhere else. (Well, most of the
time anyway...)

> How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically?

For older children it may often be an issue of modesty and self-
consciousness.
If you were in an accident that somehow left you incontinent and
incapable of cleaning up after yourself but still of normal
intelligence, would you prefer to have something discreet under your
clothes like Depends? Or would you just prefer to pee anywhere and
everywhere because hey, the person changing your Depends could just
as easily change you whole outfit and you'd be just as dry in the
end?

Patti

Dawn Adams

Patti writes:
Why use diapers at all then, even with young infants?

Weeeellll...I have seen websites on something called infant elimination training by where you train a 3 or 4 month old to go on command. It's adapted from methods used by moms where they simply don't use diapers. It may have solved for me, the mystery of why I'd see happy moms in tribal societies carrying around bare bummed babies.

dawn
(in NS)


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averyschmidt

> Patti writes:
> Why use diapers at all then, even with young infants?
>
> Weeeellll...I have seen websites on something called infant
elimination training by where you train a 3 or 4 month old to go on
command. It's adapted from methods used by moms where they simply
don't use diapers. It may have solved for me, the mystery of why I'd
see happy moms in tribal societies carrying around bare bummed
babies.

Yes, I realize that. I actually have a book on my shelf called
Diaper Free, but didn't read it until my youngst was older.
Sounds interesting but like a lot of work- difficult to do when you
have older kids and alot of other activity going on besides watching
your infant for about-to-pee clues.
And the few people that I've spoken to who used the diaper free
method from day one still fall back on diapers occasionally- long
car trips for example- or any other occasion where it isn't
convenient or possible to read cues and then quickly remove the
baby's clothes and aim the pee. Either way the idea is to prevent
the baby's clothes from getting peed on- the diaper free method
doesn't recommend skipping the diapers because washing peed on
clothing is just as easy and comfortable, which is what Glena seemed
to be saying.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/03 9:47:49 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically? Just to
help
them be more comfortable when they "go"? Wouldn't the benefit be the same if
the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned and dried
them? >>

Marty didn't like pull-ups because the sides have no absorbent material, and
when he went at night he really went.

When he got bigger and really was NOT going to sleep all night without
peeing, we figured a small adult-sized diaper (with removeable/reuseable side tapes)
was cheaper than doing a load of laundry every single day (sheets, mattress
pad, clothes, at least) and the eventual cost of a new mattress. 35 cents for
a diaper, and he could sleep all night comfortably. We couldn't do a load
of wash-and-dry for 35 cents, not to mention wear and tear on the bedding, and
time.

It was healthier for Marty NOT to sleep in a puddle of his own urine.
It was healthier for Marty to sleep eight hours instead of having us get up
and take him to the bathroom (which disturbed TWO people's sleep, and didn't
prevent the problem.

It was healthier for Marty to go ahead and drink and eat before bedtime than
for us to deprive him of liquid in hopes he'd sleep dry (and it didn't help
anyway).

So for Marty's health and benefit, we figured sleep, lack of urine-bed, and
lack of shame and pressure and criticism were HUGELY more important than our
being able to tell some older woman somewhere sometime that Marty was not
wetting the bed anymore.

And it turns out nothing we did or could have done would have caused him to
wake up and go to the bathroom, or for his various organs to be the size and
maturity it takes to hold urine for hours and hours.

The convenience to me was not doing laundry and not getting up to futilely
try to guess at which moment he would need to pee.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/03 10:10:47 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:

<< If you were in an accident that somehow left you incontinent and

incapable of cleaning up after yourself but still of normal

intelligence, would you prefer to have something discreet under your

clothes like Depends? Or would you just prefer to pee anywhere and

everywhere because hey, the person changing your Depends could just

as easily change you whole outfit and you'd be just as dry in the

end? >>

Let me think...
Do I LIKE the person who's going to have to clean up after me?
As an act of hostility, perhaps.

But my kids liked me, and I liked them, and neither of us was into spite or
inconvenience.

Sandra

Danielle E. Conger

At 02:27 PM 12/31/2003 -0500, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>When he got bigger and really was NOT going to sleep all night without
>peeing, we figured a small adult-sized diaper (with removeable/reuseable
>side tapes)
>was cheaper than doing a load of laundry every single day (sheets, mattress
>pad, clothes, at least) and the eventual cost of a new mattress.

I bought several waterproof crib pads--they're a really tight cotton
canvas, not vinyl or anything--when my first was an infant. I don't
remember what they were sold for--spit up pads, maybe? They had small ones
and full crib sized ones, which we used to let her have some air time after
tub.

They have been wonderful to have as the kids are learning to go through the
night! They catch everything as long as the child is on them at the time,
and they are far easier to pull up and wash than an entire set of
bedding! I like this method because the child wakes up when they wet,
which I think is helpful in cueing the body into waking up BEFORE instead
of after.

--danielle

Dawn Adams

I wrote:
>Weeeellll...I have seen websites on something called infant elimination training by >where you train a 3 or 4 month old to go on command. It's adapted from methods used by >moms where they simply don't use diapers. It may have solved for me, the mystery of why >I'd see happy moms in tribal societies carrying around bare bummed babies.

Ah...Of course I meant I'd see those women in magazines. To my knowledge there are no tribal women in Nova Scotia carrying around bare bummed babies.

Dawn (in NS)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/31/03 1:47:49 PM, danielle.conger@... writes:

<< I like this method because the child wakes up when they wet,
which I think is helpful in cueing the body into waking up BEFORE instead
of after. >>

People are saying their kids do NOT wake up when they wet.
Marty didn't.

As he was going to sleep through it either way, I would much prefer "it" was
contained.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
>The convenience to me was not doing laundry and not getting up to futilely
>try to guess at which moment he would need to pee.

I tried that one with my older boy. It would work for a couple of nights,
then I'd go to wake him (at the same time as the other nights) and find him
already wet. Or I'd take him for a pee and he'd still be wet in the
morning. Sound sleeper. Once I took him for a pee and when he was done he
reached over and tried to flush the bathtub. <g>
Tia

Tia Leschke

><< I like this method because the child wakes up when they wet,
>which I think is helpful in cueing the body into waking up BEFORE instead
>of after. >>
>
>People are saying their kids do NOT wake up when they wet.
>Marty didn't.

I think this was about the kids who aren't such sound sleepers, who are
just going through the process of learning to wake up when their bladder is
full.
Tia

Danielle E. Conger

Sandra wrote:
>People are saying their kids do NOT wake up when they wet.
> >Marty didn't.
>At 03:29 PM 12/31/2003 -0800, Tia Leschke wrote:
>I think this was about the kids who aren't such sound sleepers, who are
>just going through the process of learning to wake up when their bladder is
>full.
>Tia

My middle daughter didn't wake up if she was wet in pull-ups or
diapers--only when she drenched herself because nothing was absorbing it.
She did this, would go back to pull-ups, decide to try again, go back
again. This was always on her request, her lead. In retrospect, it seemed
like she needed to get her body used to waking her up, which she only did
after drenching herself a couple of times without the pull-ups. So, yeah,
it was the process her body went through to learn to wake up BEFORE instead
of after, and washing a pad was a whole lot easier than washing all the
bedding and a whole lot kinder than not letting her try or getting mad if
she didn't get to the potty.

Just an option that I found particularly useful. Not the only one; not
necessarily the best one.

Tia Leschke

>So, yeah,
>it was the process her body went through to learn to wake up BEFORE instead
>of after, and washing a pad was a whole lot easier than washing all the
>bedding and a whole lot kinder than not letting her try or getting mad if
>she didn't get to the potty.

I just realized that those pads would probably not work for boys - unless
they always slept on their tummy. <g>
Tia

Robyn Coburn

The bed pads that I used were similar to the disposable "Underpads" (like in
hospitals) available at pharmacies in the incontinence section. The washable
ones have a nicer cottony surface and were less sweat inducing than the
plastic ones. They were pretty large and the idea was to protect our super
expensive bed, rather than as a laundry reducer. I still put it under our
fitted sheet, unless Jayn was napping on sofa or on top of the bed - then I
would put one under her just in case. I think a boy (or a girl for that
matter) would have to pour out a gallon to soak over the whole pad, but he
would pretty much soak his pj's, and his top sheet at any rate. I would
recommend them highly for anyone concerned with preserving their mattress,
especially if you have (or wished you could have) a pillow top or feather
bed. Dh is very sensitive to smells and would complain about a pee smell,
when I could smell absolutely nothing.

Robyn L. Coburn





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Krisula Moyer

Just a practical matter with pull-ups. My two youngest, 3 and 8 still wear
them at night but the good-nights for big kids are better because the
pull-ups, for potty training have a "feel wet liner" to help kids know
they've wet. Well, this irritates dd's skin and causes rashes and u.t.i.
She 's actually more comfortable in a night time diaper but they don't come
big enough now she's a size 4. Pull ups also aren't designed to hold as
much. Better off with the diapers as long as possible and then good nights
as soon after that as possible-

krisula
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Elizabeth Roberts

Krisula,

We just bought a pack of pullups for Megan because she keeps asking for them when we're at the store. She's pulling them off constantly and always messing with them. She's not red but I think they do bother her. My girls have always had sensitive bottoms...can't use generic diapers or wipes with them.

MamaBeth

Krisula Moyer <krisulam@...> wrote:
Just a practical matter with pull-ups. My two youngest, 3 and 8 still wear
them at night but the good-nights for big kids are better because the
pull-ups, for potty training have a "feel wet liner" to help kids know
they've wet. Well, this irritates dd's skin and causes rashes and u.t.i.
She 's actually more comfortable in a night time diaper but they don't come
big enough now she's a size 4. Pull ups also aren't designed to hold as
much. Better off with the diapers as long as possible and then good nights
as soon after that as possible-

krisula
-----------------------------------------------------------------



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

I--- In [email protected], rubyprincesstsg@a...
wrote:


> Probably not, but the people that I personally know that use
pullups, do so
> for the Parents/grandparents/adults convenience. I'm sure there
are others who
> use them for reasons that benefit the child. I've just never met
them.>>

> How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically?
Just to help
> them be more comfortable when they "go"? Wouldn't the benefit be
the same if
> the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned
and dried them?
>
> I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about these pull ups
firsthand.
> Simply from watching/talking to those who DO use them.
>
> They seem like an expensive consumable to me.
>
>
> glena
>
We are currently potty training. My son runs around naked at home
all day. When he goes to bed he wears a pull-up which is the same
as a diaper for him. Why should his rest be disturbed and sheets
changes, etc? He is not ready to go all night without having an
accident. Also, when we go out he wears one. He is not ready to be
out and about bare. When we go to the park, I would rather he go as
he need than stop his play, dry him, change his clothes, who knows
how many times which would just frustrates him and takes away from
his play time. Even fully potty trained children tend to have
accidents at play time, for my 2yo it would be a disaster!

"Wouldn't the benefit be the same if
> the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned
and dried them?"
Your comment seems to indicate that parents who use pull-ups just
aren't as commited to their children and are lazier. Once he
is "fully" trained than there will be no diapers. But diapers/pull-
ups are still helpful during the triaing time. Personally, I think
it makes me more flexible. We do what works on the day it works.
If he decided he wanted to wear underwear to the park, we would.
That in my eyes is what being an unschooling parent is also about.
Not doing things just the way you think they should be done, but
also following what things have been working and are working for
your family or specific child.

Olga :)

The Bucknum's

>>>> How would one use pull ups to benefit the child specifically?
Just to help
> them be more comfortable when they "go"? Wouldn't the benefit be
the same if
> the mother/father/adult changed the child's clothing and cleaned
and dried them?>>>>

First off I'd like to say that I didn't "potty train" my kids but had a potty and a stool to get on the toilette if/when they wanted. Mostly they ran around naked or partially clothed and we did ask them if they need to go when we went they learned naturally. Stopped using diapers at night when they said they were ready. Mostly used cloth diapers, disposies sometimes when we we're going out, I was feeling lazy or was booked solid for a few days(maybe the same thing?).

What I would like to say in response to the quote above...
When we are out or have a lot of company over My kids benefited from wearing pull-ups. First from not having to go through cleaning up and changing when 'they' had much more exciting things to do. Secondly they have experienced no bad reactions from less sensitive people as they cleaned up after an accident. (I'm sure my Aunt would pass out if my almost three yearold had peed on her 200 yearold sofa, tee hee, luckily she had a pullup on)

Now those might sound like they make life easier on the grownups and yup they do. It's much easier to have a Wee'un come to me and say "Need new Inup" during x-mas dinner at Aunties. Then have to clean up and change them. But it benefits the Kids too cause they don't have to stand there cold and wet getting cleaned up. I also don't like having to keep many changes of clothes in a sack to truck around every where. Also I live in Canada and It's bloody cold in my area today -20C(I'm so glad I don't have to walk kids to school at 8 in the dark and be dressed and brushed with four kids bundled up. ug) Although I don't like disposables due to environmental concerns, and the smell of linen fresh off the line in summer, I do use pull-ups. Also My 6yo isn't reliably dry at night and so she has access to them as well.

Anyway I've blathered on long enough.
Teresa in Canada


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