The Scanlons

<<My question is why are homeschooler more outraged over the conclusion CBS
<<came to after real cases of abuse, than they are at the kind of
<<homeschoolers who beat and "discipline" and punish their kids?

Whether it's popular or not, whether all agree with it or not, some people
believe that this is not abuse and it *is* in the child's best interest.
Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of abuse. Some
consider unlimited tv viewing as abuse. Subjecting your kids to
inappropriate shows and movies might be abusive. You let him watch a show
that you know will give him nightmares just so that he can learn that he
shouldn't watch those kinds of shows? You're his parent -- your JOB is to
protect him until he is old enough to protect himself! Let's not even go
into the realm of allowing him to watch a show with graphic or violent sex
in it.

Neglecting to teach your child the hoops he has to jump through to learn how
to get along in the *regular* world could be considered shirking your
parental responsibilities.

Allowing your child to stay up late and get up early? How is a child
supposed to grow properly without the right amount of sleep?

What? You don't vaccinate? If your child dies from one of these
preventable diseases, you should be charged with murder!

You're only having one child? But you *have* to give a child a sibling.
Hey, Lady, why do you have so many kids? Don't you know you can't possibly
love them all the way they deserve to be loved?

You're not paying for your kid's college? How is he supposed to make it in
life when he starts with so much debt? or How is he supposed to concentrate
on his studies when he's worried about money? I can't believe that you're
paying for her tuition, room, board and incidentals. You're spoiling that
girl and she'll never learn to be responsible for herself.


Let's not discuss the merits and shortcomings of these various parental
styles and decisions. The point I am making is that everyone parents
differently. One mom's freedom is another mom's neglect. One dad's
discipline is another dad's abuse. Almost everyone can agree on things that
are *definitely* abuse, but there is a whole lot of gray surrounding the
other stuff. All of the different types of parenting turn out all of the
different types of people. Responsible citizens are formed in all types of
families. Sociopaths are formed in all types of families. (Don't ask me
for any examples...I don't know what kind of parenting style Ted Bundy's
parents had...probably authoritarian and 15 people will write to tell me so!
But then why didn't his brothers and sisters turn out to be real whack-jobs?
Probably because he didn't have any and a different 15 people will write to
tell me that! *twitter sigh* That's why I said don't ask for examples.)
People are people and there is no perfect way to parent that fits all
families, or even all children. Most parents do the best they know how at
the time. Children grow up and make their own choices in the end.

The laws need to be loose so that parents can do their jobs in the best way
they know how. The best way to convince parents not to spank their children
is to be a good example. Don't decide you can't be friends with someone
because they believe in spanking and coercion as parenting tools. I know a
whole lot of parents who used to spank but saw a better way in a friend or
neighbor. Change is hard. It's nearly impossible when you are surrounded
by a bunch of people who all believe the same way. It's also a lot harder
if you are being attacked and your instinct is to deny, deny, deny. This
goes for most of the parenting techniques. It usually takes a slow burning
exposure to a different way for people to realize that this could really
work. And then there is the whole process of actually implementing the new
ways.

I'm not sure if the above quote meant to, but it seems to be equating
"traditional acceptable" parenting practices with the neglect and abuse of
that NC family. I see the connection, but it's a far stretch.

Sandy

pam sorooshian

On Oct 30, 2003, at 12:55 AM, The Scanlons wrote:

> <<My question is why are homeschooler more outraged over the
> conclusion CBS
> <<came to after real cases of abuse, than they are at the kind of
> <<homeschoolers who beat and "discipline" and punish their kids?
>
> I'm not sure if the above quote meant to, but it seems to be equating
> "traditional acceptable" parenting practices with the neglect and
> abuse of
> that NC family. I see the connection, but it's a far stretch.

Beating is not traditionally acceptable and the word "discipline" was
in quotes to indicate that she was talking about something beyond usual
discipline, meaning abuse under the name of discipline. You went on
and on but you misunderstood the original quote and now you ought to do
an Emily Litella "Nevermind."

The point was that there are people who are getting a whole lot more
worked up over the CBS news report - which was a less than 3 minute
little broadcast, than get worked up over children being abused in
families that are ostensibly homeschooling.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/03 1:54:43 AM, scanlon36@... writes:

<< Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of abuse. Some

consider unlimited tv viewing as abuse. >>

No they don't.
They might consider it neglect, but nobody is going to consider it "abusive"
to give children some freedom over their own time in their own home.

<<Subjecting your kids to

inappropriate shows and movies might be abusive. >>

Yeah. If they were "Subjected," meaning made to watch a program they didn't
want to see.

<<You let him watch a show

that you know will give him nightmares just so that he can learn that he

shouldn't watch those kinds of shows? You're his parent -- your JOB is to

protect him until he is old enough to protect himself! Let's not even go

into the realm of allowing him to watch a show with graphic or violent sex

in it.>>

Do you spank your children?

This shrill side-track must have a basis in personal emotion, because it
doesn't have a basis in rational discussion.

<<Let's not discuss the merits and shortcomings of these various parental

styles and decisions. >>

Do not bring up ANYTHING you don't want discussed.
That's not my opinion, that's #4: If you have a belief or practice that you
don't want held up to public examination, don't post it to the list.

<<The point I am making is that everyone parents

differently. One mom's freedom is another mom's neglect. One dad's

discipline is another dad's abuse. >>

There is not an infinite arrange of acceptable parenting.
If a child is given freedom which results in him being safe, thoughtful and
mature, that's NOBODY's "neglect." If a dad's "discipline" harms his child's
body or soul, that is abuse.

<<All of the different types of parenting turn out all of the

different types of people. Responsible citizens are formed in all types of

families. Sociopaths are formed in all types of families. (Don't ask me

for any examples...>>

Don't give us wishful opinion in the guise of "fact" and then state right
there that you have no examples.

<<People are people and there is no perfect way to parent that fits all

families, or even all children. >>

Knowledge that one won't be perfect shouldn't be a license to do whatever is
expedient. Someone wrote here or on another list recently that every parent
is doing the best he or she can do. That sounds good, but it's not true. Some
parents have a bag of justifications for doing less than they know they
should.

<<Most parents do the best they know how at the time.>>

Each parent reading this is just ONE parent. Is that parent doing the best
they know how to do regardless of what "most" or "some" elsewhere are doing?

<<Children grow up and make their own choices in the end.>>

And the treatment and messages they've received up to that point affect those
choices for the rest of their lives.

Sandra

The Bucknum's

<< Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of abuse. Some

consider unlimited tv viewing as abuse. >>

No they don't.
They might consider it neglect, but nobody is going to consider it "abusive"
to give children some freedom over their own time in their own home.
~~~~~~

Sure some do Sandra: I know a group of people who think allowing your kids unlimited access to TV and video games is abusive to young children as it changes their thought patterns and brain development. It also contributes to overweight kids, poor eye sight, ability to concentrate, and I can't remember what else. I will stress these are not my beliefs but things I have picked up from reading, emails , and talking with NO TV proponents. I had copies of some of the different studies done in Japan about screen time and brain function. (I'll note here that they were the actual study reports not some persons idea of what those reports had to say) Unfortunately my pc blasted off into pop-up spamdem trogen hell and the files along with all else on my pc were lost. I've hunted for them and found two but they were the Japanese version and the translation was not very accurate. From what I did read there is evidence that yes it does use parts of the brain differently or different part of the brain in combination, than any other activity. I thought of course it would it is a completely different activity than any other why would they think that was a 'finding'. They also found that some of the parts of the brain that were stimulated or 'in use' were parts that were known to activated as pleasure producing, hinting at a possible addiction factor. Again what were they watching? Cartoons are funny make you laugh, pleasure part of the brain are active so how much had to do with content vs. addictive pleasure responses of say play a Video Gambling Machine. They also found other thing but my kids need me and I haven't been able to concentrate while writing this I hope it makes some since. If I find those studies I'll send them your way so you can tare them apart. :-D

Teresa in CA

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/31/03 9:00:48 AM, ctbucknum@... writes:

<< Sure some do Sandra: I know a group of people who think allowing your
kids unlimited access to TV and video games is abusive to young children as it
changes their thought patterns and brain development. It also contributes to
overweight kids, poor eye sight, ability to concentrate, and I can't remember
what else. I will stress these are not my beliefs but things I have picked up
from reading, emails , and talking with NO TV proponents. >>

I'm not talking about the arguments against TV. I'm talking about the
difference between "abuse" and "neglect," which words and concepts are older than TV
or even radio.

Sandra