Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] was:(Congressional Letter to CBS) now anti-unscho...
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/03 08:48:04 AM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
One Mom actually said (no joke) that she let her 9 or 10 yr. old child play
video games for one day and he pooped and peed himself and sat in it all day
then she dragged him out of the room kicking and screaming.. I am still
beside
my self on that one. How is this possible one and two how could anyone be
comfortable writing it as an anti-video game defense?
There are maybe 2 or 3 of us on this list of 200 that Unschool what does one
say to this as a minority on a list?
Laura
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
If in fact what this mom wrote is true, and she wrote this as a response or a
statement of fact that unschooling does not work then the logic is flawed.
She starts right of saying that she *Let the child play for one day* that isn't
unschooling, that is her "allowing" a child to play something that is usually
heavily restricted. The child was so enthralled at the so called freedom he
didn't/couldn't drag himself away for even a moment. I find it hard to believe a
child of nine or ten would defecate on himself just to keep that freedom for
one moment longer, but if it is true then it speaks volumes about the mom
herself. The fact that she then dragged her child away screaming shows that the
child was very aware that the one day of freedom was a ploy on the mothers part
and not truly a day of freedom. If she was really trying unschooling then she
would have had to give it more than just a day. And she probably spent most of
the day making comments about when he was going to get off, and how nice a
day it was to spend outside, and wouldn't he like to read some in his book...
What I really think is mean is having a game system and then locking it up.
That is like having something always and being allowed to look and see and know
it is there but never ever touch it. My toys were like that when I was a
child. I had many but I wasn't allowed to play with them because I would mess them
up or I would make a mess, so when I was allowed to play with my toys I did
make a mess. I was so excited to be able to play with them I didn't know which
one to play with first and would drag them all out. That, of course, proved my
mothers theory that I would make a mess if allowed the freedom to just play
unrestricted. So unless my mother had the time to sit and control the
situation, I was resigned to looking and wanting. When my sister came onto the scene
when I was seven and then when I was nine and my brother came along, they
started getting all these cool toys and they were allowed to play with them and that
wasn't fair. To add insult to injury I didn't get toys anymore, I got books
and clothes. And not that books and clothes are bad, but when you spend all of
your first years being smothered with no and don't and can't and shouldn't and
better not and wait till your father gets home and then two small creatures
come along and get everything you ever wanted, well it just hurts and it drives
home the word crap. So if this boy has this hundred dollar game system with
forty dollar a pop games and isn't ever allowed to play unless the situation is
controlled then I can see why he did what he did. And every time he sees a
game he wants and has to "earn" it and then has to "earn" time to play it then I
understand that drive to never leave one spot for that justified fear of
reprisal on the mom's part. He knew he would be punished for spending the whole
day on the games, but it was almost worth it or else why would he have done what
he did? The child did what he did because it was expected that he would do
that. Probably every day he asks to play and every day he is told "If I let you
play you will never get off, you will rot your brain playing that junk." The
game is like candy. Only allowed on certain special occasions and if he "earns"
the time.
Not unschooling. Not even close. No wonder it didn't work.
~Nancy
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Elbert Hubbard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
One Mom actually said (no joke) that she let her 9 or 10 yr. old child play
video games for one day and he pooped and peed himself and sat in it all day
then she dragged him out of the room kicking and screaming.. I am still
beside
my self on that one. How is this possible one and two how could anyone be
comfortable writing it as an anti-video game defense?
There are maybe 2 or 3 of us on this list of 200 that Unschool what does one
say to this as a minority on a list?
Laura
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
If in fact what this mom wrote is true, and she wrote this as a response or a
statement of fact that unschooling does not work then the logic is flawed.
She starts right of saying that she *Let the child play for one day* that isn't
unschooling, that is her "allowing" a child to play something that is usually
heavily restricted. The child was so enthralled at the so called freedom he
didn't/couldn't drag himself away for even a moment. I find it hard to believe a
child of nine or ten would defecate on himself just to keep that freedom for
one moment longer, but if it is true then it speaks volumes about the mom
herself. The fact that she then dragged her child away screaming shows that the
child was very aware that the one day of freedom was a ploy on the mothers part
and not truly a day of freedom. If she was really trying unschooling then she
would have had to give it more than just a day. And she probably spent most of
the day making comments about when he was going to get off, and how nice a
day it was to spend outside, and wouldn't he like to read some in his book...
What I really think is mean is having a game system and then locking it up.
That is like having something always and being allowed to look and see and know
it is there but never ever touch it. My toys were like that when I was a
child. I had many but I wasn't allowed to play with them because I would mess them
up or I would make a mess, so when I was allowed to play with my toys I did
make a mess. I was so excited to be able to play with them I didn't know which
one to play with first and would drag them all out. That, of course, proved my
mothers theory that I would make a mess if allowed the freedom to just play
unrestricted. So unless my mother had the time to sit and control the
situation, I was resigned to looking and wanting. When my sister came onto the scene
when I was seven and then when I was nine and my brother came along, they
started getting all these cool toys and they were allowed to play with them and that
wasn't fair. To add insult to injury I didn't get toys anymore, I got books
and clothes. And not that books and clothes are bad, but when you spend all of
your first years being smothered with no and don't and can't and shouldn't and
better not and wait till your father gets home and then two small creatures
come along and get everything you ever wanted, well it just hurts and it drives
home the word crap. So if this boy has this hundred dollar game system with
forty dollar a pop games and isn't ever allowed to play unless the situation is
controlled then I can see why he did what he did. And every time he sees a
game he wants and has to "earn" it and then has to "earn" time to play it then I
understand that drive to never leave one spot for that justified fear of
reprisal on the mom's part. He knew he would be punished for spending the whole
day on the games, but it was almost worth it or else why would he have done what
he did? The child did what he did because it was expected that he would do
that. Probably every day he asks to play and every day he is told "If I let you
play you will never get off, you will rot your brain playing that junk." The
game is like candy. Only allowed on certain special occasions and if he "earns"
the time.
Not unschooling. Not even close. No wonder it didn't work.
~Nancy
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Elbert Hubbard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/03 9:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
like it. Apparently they've forgotten the effects it had on them as children.
My music teacher in high school once said, "Not all adults deserve respect.
Respect is mutual, I don't care if you are 11 or 111". And by the way, my
mother couldn't stand her! I loved her.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Maybe everyone should get involved in making spanking and time out andOr maybe they should suffer the same consequences as adults and see how they
> go-to-bed-without-your-dinner illegal.
>
like it. Apparently they've forgotten the effects it had on them as children.
My music teacher in high school once said, "Not all adults deserve respect.
Respect is mutual, I don't care if you are 11 or 111". And by the way, my
mother couldn't stand her! I loved her.
Carol
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/03 9:27:41 AM, Dnowens@... writes:
<< And she probably spent most of
the day making comments about when he was going to get off, and how nice a
day it was to spend outside, and wouldn't he like to read some in his book...
that game was horrible." (AND afterwards telling friends and strangers that
he sat in his own excrement. THERE's a relationship builder!)
So he KNOWS his mom was wrong and that the game was wonderful.
She will not have a son to communicate with for too much longer, if she's
even trying to communicate with him (instead of at him) now. She won't have his
trust or his love much longer, if she has any left now.
Sandra
<< And she probably spent most of
the day making comments about when he was going to get off, and how nice a
day it was to spend outside, and wouldn't he like to read some in his book...
>>AND then afterwards probably telling him "SEE!? I was right, you're a mess,
that game was horrible." (AND afterwards telling friends and strangers that
he sat in his own excrement. THERE's a relationship builder!)
So he KNOWS his mom was wrong and that the game was wonderful.
She will not have a son to communicate with for too much longer, if she's
even trying to communicate with him (instead of at him) now. She won't have his
trust or his love much longer, if she has any left now.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/03 11:17:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
restrictions *and* I have a six-year-old who does occasionally have bathroom
accidents, often when he's watching TV or playing video/computer games. He is
a *very* focused kid, but reading your post helped me realize that now that
there are no restrictions (even though he's still in school for now by his
choice), he's having fewer accidents. Interesting. So thanks! <g>
As far as the school thing -- he had thought he wanted to finish first grade,
but now he wants to stop at the semester break in January. It's interesting
to watch him work all this out in his own brain. He's very much looking
forward to unschooling, but he's also determined to stick to his own plan. One
morning when he was tired and didn't want to go, I asked him if he wanted me to
call the principal and give his notice (I have agreed to do so because the
principal needs time to fill the space, I think because charter schools need full
enrollment for their funding). He said no, he wanted to stick to the plan.
I'm not sure I understand his reasons exactly, but I really admire him for
taking his own approach to all this.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'm preaching to the choir, I know, but sometimes it just feels good to letActually this was very helpful to me as I'm still figuring out unschooling/no
> a
> stream of thought out.
restrictions *and* I have a six-year-old who does occasionally have bathroom
accidents, often when he's watching TV or playing video/computer games. He is
a *very* focused kid, but reading your post helped me realize that now that
there are no restrictions (even though he's still in school for now by his
choice), he's having fewer accidents. Interesting. So thanks! <g>
As far as the school thing -- he had thought he wanted to finish first grade,
but now he wants to stop at the semester break in January. It's interesting
to watch him work all this out in his own brain. He's very much looking
forward to unschooling, but he's also determined to stick to his own plan. One
morning when he was tired and didn't want to go, I asked him if he wanted me to
call the principal and give his notice (I have agreed to do so because the
principal needs time to fill the space, I think because charter schools need full
enrollment for their funding). He said no, he wanted to stick to the plan.
I'm not sure I understand his reasons exactly, but I really admire him for
taking his own approach to all this.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<The game is like candy. Only allowed on certain special occasions and
if he "earns"
the time. >>
Also, perhaps there were other kids who would have jumped on the machine
if he left it. Nor do we have an accurate idea of what that mother's
concept of "all day" was. People who are "watching the pot" often don't
have a clear idea of how long something has gone on. Poor kid.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
if he "earns"
the time. >>
Also, perhaps there were other kids who would have jumped on the machine
if he left it. Nor do we have an accurate idea of what that mother's
concept of "all day" was. People who are "watching the pot" often don't
have a clear idea of how long something has gone on. Poor kid.
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Solich
> > Maybe everyone should get involved in making spanking and time out andgo-to-bed-without-your-dinner illegal.>>
>>Or maybe they should suffer the same consequences as adults and see howthey like it. Apparently they've forgotten the effects it had on them as
children. My music teacher in high school once said, "Not all adults
deserve respect. Respect is mutual, I don't care if you are 11 or 111".
And by the way, my mother couldn't stand her! I loved her.>>
Last night I read the paper (Western Australia) and their was an article
about a man who had whipped his teenage son with a 1.5 metre piece of hose
for 40 minutes!!!!! The boy had been getting into trouble at school and was
bringing shame to his family. The judge told him that "he was well-motivated
in trying to discipline your son but you've gone a bit too far." Can you
imagine if this same man was assaulted in this manner by a stranger and the
stranger was told he'd gone a bit too far? Ugh, it's too sickening.
Julie
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